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Earth's Plants Are Countering Some of the Effects of Climate Change (economist.com)

A new study published in Nature Communications has found that Earth's plant life between 2002 and 2014 has absorbed so much carbon dioxide that the buildup of CO2 in the atmosphere has slowed down, despite humans pumping out more CO2 than ever before. The study also found that between 1982 and 2009, "about 18m square kilometers of new vegetation had sprouted on Earth's surface, an area roughly twice the size of the United States." The Economist reports: In 2014 humans pumped about 35.7 billion tons of carbon dioxide into the air. That figure has been climbing sharply since the middle of the 20th century, when only about 6 billion tons a year were emitted. As a consequence, the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has been rising too, from about 311 parts per million (ppm) in 1950 to just over 400 in 2015. Yet the rate at which it is rising seems to have slowed since the turn of the century. According to Dr Keenan, between 1959 and 1989 the rate at which CO2 levels were growing rose from 0.75ppm per year to 1.86. Since 2002, though, it has barely budged. In other words, although humans are pumping out more CO2 than ever, less of it than you might expect is lingering in the air. Filling the atmosphere with CO2 is a bit like filling a bath without a plug: the level will rise only if more water is coming out of the taps than is escaping down the drain. Climate scientists call the processes which remove CO2 from the air "sinks." The oceans are one such sink. Photosynthesis by plants is another: carbon dioxide is converted, with the help of water and light energy from the sun, into sugars, which are used to make more plant matter, locking the carbon away in wood and leaves. Towards the end of the 20th century around 50% of the CO2 emitted by humans each year was removed from the atmosphere this way. Now that number seems closer to 60%. Earth's carbon sinks seem to have become more effective, but the precise details are still unclear. Using a mix of ground and atmospheric observations, satellite measurements and computer modeling, Dr Keenan and his colleagues have concluded that faster-growing land plants are the chief reason. That makes sense: as CO2 concentrations rise, photosynthesis speeds up. Studies conducted in greenhouses have found that plants can photosynthesis up to 40% faster when concentrations of CO2 are between 475 and 600ppm.

186 comments

  1. good for them by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    good for us

    1. Re:good for them by Layzej · · Score: 4, Informative

      That slowdown is on the second derivative. The acceleration has slowed if the paper is right. Here's what that looks like: http://woodfortrees.org/plot/e... . The red curve is CO2.

    2. Re: good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wanna stop climate change, but think of the poor plants. This goes against my fearmongering agenda so it must be wrong.

    3. Re:good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does them mean plants? Does us mean animals?

      Do you mean good for plants and animals then?

    4. Re:good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not so much, the oceans are acidifying as a result and algae/plankton blooms of monocultures in warmer waters are skewing the biome. We have no idea what's going on until 20 years later.

    5. Re: good for them by saloomy · · Score: 1

      Then let's not make any assumptions and wait to see what the effects really are. Remember, all that carbon was at one time in the earths biosphere, being trapped in large reservoirs underground is the unusual state.

    6. Re: good for them by saloomy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This makes sense. Photosynthesis is a biochemical process. So increasing the inputs (CO2 being one) should increase the outputs. The higher concentrations should also increase the rate of reaction. It would seem earths CO2 levels should never get above a certain threshold given the balancing nature of this reaction rate.

    7. Re: good for them by soft_guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While I agree that is true and while I agree that life actually put it into the resevoirs you are talking about, *our species* evolved after the coal and oil resevoirs were created. I would mention that life was common on earth prior to the introduction of free oxygen in the atmosphere. The "natural state" does not involve O2 in the atmosphere.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    8. Re: good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for those pesky Humans cutting down rain forests and poisoning the algae

      Edit: I swear... I think someone at /. is screwing with my capchas... 'nations' this time

    9. Re: good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well then I propose that having an atmosphere is not the Earth's natural state because it didn't when it forged.

    10. Re: good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Until the plants run out of space and/or start encroaching on human-claimed territory...

      Only so much mass can be stored, and it's not evenly distributed.

    11. Re:good for them by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2, Funny

      good for us

      I'm not so sure that this will work out to be good for us. With an abundance of food, plants will evolve, become intelligent and eventually enslave humans to produce more CO2 for them.

      The plant overlord future isn't looking very "rosy" any more, is it . . . ?

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    12. Re:good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plants that taste worse and contain less nutrients per unit of volume are not so pleasant for us without energy-intensive processing. But, as the movie War Games taught us, lets eat corn cooked and vitamins as pills.

    13. Re:good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The plant overlord future isn't looking very "rosy" any more, is it . . . ?

      More like "carroty", maybe.

    14. Re: good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it has never been all at once...

    15. Re: good for them by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      As usual, it's all a matter of constants in the dynamic system. Unfortunately, those constants are still not good for us.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    16. Re: good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This assumes that photosynthesis would forever be limited by CO2 concentration and continues to increase in effectiveness with it. As noted in the summary, experiments have been done. In fact, increased CO2 is often used in greenhouses to enhance growth, but there's a limit where photosynthesis eventually plateaus, and some plants don't benefit from it (presumably there are other things limiting them). The CO2 concentration where it plateaus varies quite a bit and isn't a sharp edge, but generally things start flattening out at 500ppm and above, though there is still an increase even to as high as 1000ppm at a much slower rate as it flattens out, so greenhouses often aim at no more than 1000ppm as the "saturation" of the system.

      Partially offsetting this in the global warming situation, there's a counteracting effect with temperature (photorespiration increases).

      Of greater concern is what the effect would be on photosynthesis in the ocean as ocean acidification occurs. Any decline there may undermine gains in CO2 fixation for land plants. Also, increasing carbon fixation doesn't necessarily result in increased long-term storage of carbon, because most land plant material is destined to be returned to the atmosphere as CO2 during the decay process, which is often accelerated at higher temperatures.

      It is a good news story, but it's going to round the edge off the increase not offset it enough to prevent it from increasing.

    17. Re: good for them by Gorobei · · Score: 1

      If you think scientists are worried because burning oil releases heat, and that heat is causing global warming, you are badly in need of a science education.

    18. Re: good for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's it. We need to build a wall to keep the plants out.

    19. Re: good for them by reboot246 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I just received this text:

      That's how I planned for it to work.
      ~God

    20. Re: good for them by pipingguy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Shhhh! You're threatening taxpayer funding for #ClimateChange!

    21. Re: good for them by khallow · · Score: 1

      Then let's not make any assumptions and wait to see what the effects really are.

      Precautionary principle is useless here because there are multiple conflicting disaster narratives. saloomy is right on the nose here. Why is AC's concern that global warming might actually do something harmful now that will take us 20 years to figure out more important than my concern that global warming mitigation will impoverish humanity to no useful result over the next twenty years? Wait and see works, folks.

    22. Re:good for them by KingBenny · · Score: 1

      ah, i hear the american administration is countering some of it as well
      yes, first impression its a bit misleading since "has slowed down" does not imply and probably does not mean "the amount has declined" but rather "it increased a little less than last year"
      unless im very much mistaken, ive been reading up for two days and my rtfa-mood is gone, glad im at the front page by now

      --
      Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
    23. Re:good for them by Layzej · · Score: 1

      does not imply and probably does not mean "the amount has declined" but rather "it increased a little less than last year"

      Not quite that even. It means the amount that it is speeding up is somewhat less.

    24. Re: good for them by jmv · · Score: 1

      Yeah, if only we could stop all these climate scientists who are making billions worth of profit by pretending we're about to completely mess up the climate.

    25. Re: good for them by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      So it if you want to take it all the way. Create a global food bank, in the deserts of Australia, using desalinated water. Other countries can invest in that food bank, to pay for that development, to give them a reliable source of food, should their own be disrupted and of course you would then have millions of square kilometres of high density plant growth. Plus water being held by the plants and post irrigation water going into the ground table and turning high radiant heat deserts(more than one) into massive heat sink and of course absorbing tons and tons of carbon dioxide and water released via transpiration would be released as precipitation with much of it flowing back into central Australia, slowly but surely filling it up.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    26. Re: good for them by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Wait and see works, folks

      In other words, wait until old fart khallow is dead, by which time it will be everybody else's problem.

    27. Re: good for them by khallow · · Score: 1

      In other words, wait until old fart khallow is dead, by which time it will be everybody else's problem.

      Same logic applies to you. It's remarkably how little thought has been given to the future by the people supposedly saving the Earth's climate. Maybe time to practice what you preach?

    28. Re: good for them by stoatwblr · · Score: 2

      "Of greater concern is what the effect would be on photosynthesis in the ocean as ocean acidification occurs. "

      Um.... yes.

      About half our oxygen comes from the oceans and there is plenty of evidence in geology that CO2 spikes go hand in hand with oceanic anoxic events.

      Look those up and worry.

    29. Re: good for them by MercTech · · Score: 1

      And it bears out the empirical data from the Greenpeace study of the effects of global warming on the Amazon rain forest. For some reason they thought the rain forest would be damaged by global warming. The study actually voiced surprise that increased CO2 levels in 2009 accounted for a 17% increase in the rate of growth in the tropical rain forest.

      My personal opinion:
      1> Global warming due to increased CO2 levels in the atmosphere is a proven. The theory was well enough known that the calculations appeared on a sophomore physics exam in 1976. The numbers were within 3% of the projected increase in mean ocean temperatures in 2000.
      2> Many people make careers out of sowing fear, uncertainty, and doubt. The consequences of global warming are not going to be as fast and catastrophic as those that want your tax money for draconian non solutions want you to believe.
      3> Any system in equilibrium will cycle until a new equilibrium stabilizes. The atmosphere is an equilibrium system. Yep, there will by oscillations creating much colder temperatures in limited parts of the globe. The key thing is that the oscillations in the equilibrium are going to be chaotic. Worry when kudzu is starting to infest Chicago; oh, about my great great grandchildren's day.

      --
      NRRPT/RCT
    30. Re: good for them by lastman71 · · Score: 1

      It looks like you are thinking that God can't read english:

      the rate at which it is rising seems to have slowed, doesn't means that level of co2 are lowering. Just not fast as before. And being the level of CO2 already too high, is not enough.

      If you lost 1000$ yesterday, and today 990$, it's not like you are getting rich atm.

      Or may be I misunderstand his message. Maybe He means: I planned to kill them all for they own stupidity. That makes sense!

  2. Good for my gardens by pubwvj · · Score: 4, Funny

    Good for my gardens, my forest, my pastures.

    Oh, wait, all of them are sequestering carbon to the tune of 1.4 to 2.7 tons of carbon a year. Hmm... This could be counter productive. The plants might use up all that carbon dioxide. Better startup your SUVs to make up for this and keep the farms flourishing!

    1. Re:Good for my gardens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We should be planting trees (and watering when possible) on every highway median . This is not a complete solution but neither is taxing the people to death and reducing thier quality of life with a one sided income redistribution approach boen out of 1960's ideology adjusted for a new cause. Here in NY state, there are thousands of miles or roads that have a diminishing number of trees planted on them. The state then bunrs fuel to mow the grass fields. If you plant tens of thousands of trees (and water them in the early years) you would create a co2 sink. In NY they plant new trees and most die due to lack of watering or lack of oversight when contractors fail to water trees in the early years. Trees are also planted near exit ramps but far apart and often not watered in early years leading to death. Combine this with the new fuel effeciency standards and the coming electric car revolution and it will make a small dent. Millions of small dents leads to improvement

    2. Re:Good for my gardens by pubwvj · · Score: 1

      It's a seemingly good idea to plant the trees but there are several reasons that they don't do this and all are rooted in saving lives.

      Trees fall down. So the highway department would rather keep them a tree length away from the travel way.

      Cars go off the road. So the highway department would like to have safe runout zones in the medians where the soft ground will slow your vehicle and prevent your death rather than you stopping suddenly when you hit a mature tree.

      Additionally, to optimize the carbon sequestering you need to be harvesting those trees regularly to maximize their growth. This means many thinings through the life of the stands. That means heavy equipment (logging skiders, trucks) working in the medians. It's dangerous enough having the mowers but that can be done once every few years and is less dangerous for those involved, both logger/mower and driving public plus the mowing does not involve heavy logging trucks reentering the stream of traffic which they do with great difficulty while attempting to get up to speed.

      There are better places to make a million small dents.

      Lastly, the green verges of grasses and wildflowers can actually sequester more carbon than forest lands so the mowed margins are a good solution.

      -Walter
      with his forestry and farming hat on.

  3. makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    But even better: Some good news!

    1. Re:makes sense by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 4, Informative

      Tamino makes a good case that these researchers are mostly wrong.

      --
      a,e,i,o,u and sometimes w and y (at be if of up cwm by)
    2. Re:makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be interesting if Tamino himself had been an actual scientist, publishing his rebuttal in a peer reviewed journal.

    3. Re: makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a

    4. Re:makes sense by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 2

      That would be interesting if Tamino himself had been an actual scientist, publishing his rebuttal in a peer reviewed journal.

      Tamino is Grant Foster, a statistician who does publish in peer reviewed literature. In my opinion, this will likely be published unless someone else beats him to it. That will at best take a long time, while this can show up immediately.

      --
      a,e,i,o,u and sometimes w and y (at be if of up cwm by)
  4. Much of the C02 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..is released back into the atmosphere once microbes have had their way once the plants are dead?

    1. Re:Much of the C02 by skids · · Score: 1

      Some remains in the soil. If it is active carbon when it is buried, it can even form a very productive substrate known as Terra Preta, though whether it can work it's magic outside of tropical latitudes is still under scientific review IIRC.

  5. Oh really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This story brought to your future director of the EPA ?

  6. Not permanent by Jeremi · · Score: 4, Informative

    Photosynthesis by plants is another: carbon dioxide is converted, with the help of water and light energy from the sun, into sugars, which are used to make more plant matter, locking the carbon away in wood and leaves.

    ... until the plant dies, and wood/leaves either burn or rot, at which point the CO2 is released into the atmosphere again.

    We'll also need some way of getting the plant material back under the ground if we want to keep the CO2 permanently out of the atmosphere. (yes, I realize that does happen, as that's where all the coal deposits came from, etc, but I do wonder what percentage of the new plants will end up that way)

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    1. Re:Not permanent by soft_guy · · Score: 1

      I read recently that trees and woody plants evolved a long long time before bacteria evolved that could digest the wood. If the coal and oil deposits were created in an environment without that bacteria, then when we run out of oil, we will have very little oil left and more won't be made even if you waited millions of years. Imagine if a future intelligent species (likely not mammalian species either) examines the fossil record of its time and learns that we lived hundreds of millions of years ago in a time of free oxygen, followed by the vast majority of oil suddenly being missing in the fossil record, followed by a period of only anaerobic life, and then a whole second story of evolution. Those creatures will freak the fuck out if they find evidence that we had a culture in the fossil record. They might even find evidence of human technology that is more advanced than theirs. I wonder if they would wonder why we didn't industrialize with nuclear power? They almost certainly will find evidence of nuclear technologies. They will wonder why we killed ourselves.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    2. Re:Not permanent by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 0

      Ooy. More plant matter as the steady state condition means less CO2 in the air as a steady state condition than there would have been without more plants.

      This is only the most obvious of a dozen and a half negative feedback mechanisms the planet has for staying at its equilibrium temperature in the face of perturbations and disturbances such as solar activity, the eccentricity of the Earth's orbit around the sun, precession of the polar axis, and release of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gasses through natural and artificial processes.

      Good thing too. Now that Obama's not going to be in office to hold back the oceans any more, we could use all the help we need.

    3. Re:Not permanent by khallow · · Score: 1

      I read recently that trees and woody plants evolved a long long time before bacteria evolved that could digest the wood.

      The obvious rebuttal is that it's just not that hard to digest wood, it's just slow. My view is that even modern bacteria wouldn't have been able to keep up with the amount of biomatter being deposited. What has changed is that for the most part, modern plants don't deposit enough biomatter to cause this issue.

    4. Re:Not permanent by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      Fundamentally, this is it. There's only one way that we add carbon to the atmosphere - digging it up from the ground. There's only one way to take it away - put it back in the ground.

    5. Re:Not permanent by skids · · Score: 1

      Well, technically we could freeze it and sink it to the bottom of the ocean in a spot that's likely to keep it that way, or break it down and recombine it into a solid compound, but considering the agricultural side-benefits, burying it makes a hell of a lot more sense.

    6. Re:Not permanent by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      When you talk about the fossil record, the principle is that the newer stuff is always on top. It would be impossible to determine that the oil (deposited long ago) suddenly went missing (at a later date); it's either there or it's not.

      Furthermore, even modern extraction techniques leave more than half the oil behind, so that no oil deposit completely disappears.

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    7. Re:Not permanent by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Where did Obama stick his thumb to hold the oceans back?

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    8. Re:Not permanent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By that theory, fossil fuels could not have been created in the first place.

    9. Re:Not permanent by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 0

      No no. It was the power of his soaring rhetoric and mellifluous calm that commanded the oceans to stay back. Remember the narrative.

    10. Re:Not permanent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Largest scale CO2 sink I can imagine would be to process dead plant matter to something heavier than water then dump it overboard to 10km deep Mariana Trench. From there it will go under the Eurasian tectonic plate and hopefully away for good.

      We could easily get rid of many gigatons of plant matter each year.

  7. That is a huge proportion by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Studies conducted in greenhouses have found that plants can photosynthesis up to 40% faster when concentrations of CO2 are between 475 and 600ppm.

    That's nice. That's not sustainable, though. It's quite irrelevant what the plants will do under those conditions if we're well and rightly fucked before we even get there. It's also not universal. Some plants can do that. Some plants can't; they are already at or near their limits.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:That is a huge proportion by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That's nice. That's not sustainable, though.

      The 350.org people are not living in reality, if they are your source of info, then you're just living in fantasy land.

      Quote from your link:

      âoeIf humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, paleoclimate evidence and ongoing climate change suggest that CO2 will need to be reduced from [current levels] to at most 350 ppm.â

      There is zero chance of that happening in the next 100 years, none, ziltch... It will hit 500 ppm long before it has a chance to stop climbing... it probably will hit 600 ppm before the end of this century...

      Those people are insane. Notice they don't actually state what will be required to do that, they just say "conserve and stop burning stuff", but they never say HOW MUCH.

      Do you know why? Because they know the truth, they know that if they actually publish the number, they'll get ignored.

      The number HAS been published... the Western world has to cut 80% of its power consumption and the developing world 60% of its power consumption, and the whole planet has just 32 years to do it.

      Now before you scream solar and wind, read the above sentence, then read it again, because I'm 99% sure you won't read it correctly the first few times.

      There is zero chance of that happening.

    2. Re:That is a huge proportion by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      The number HAS been published... the Western world has to cut 80% of its power consumption and the developing world 60% of its power consumption, and the whole planet has just 32 years to do it.

      Now before you scream solar and wind, read the above sentence, then read it again, because I'm 99% sure you won't read it correctly the first few times.

      There is zero chance of that happening.

      Well, I'd say well-north of zero. An all-out thermonuclear/chemical/biological war would probably do nicely.

      s/ Of course there will be naysayers whining their bleeding-heart nonsense about the cure being worse than the disease and you can't wipe out humanity to save the Earth, but isn't it humans that are the cause of all the Earths' problems in the first place and AGW simply another proof that Earth should be sanitized and made human-free?

      Humans are so arrogant that many think that just because their species, and the beginnings of life it evolved from, evolved here that they are somehow "natural" to the Earth. Such stunning hubris is impossible to comprehend. /s

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    3. Re:That is a huge proportion by bytesex · · Score: 1

      You don't 'save the earth' by stopping, or slowing, global warming. The earth will be just fine if we don't. A lot of life will be just fine. In fact, a lot of humans might be just fine. So a thermo-nuclear war would be defying the purpose a bit.

      --
      Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
    4. Re:That is a huge proportion by pD-brane · · Score: 1

      Climatologists are just conveying a message. It probably is best to go back to or under 350 ppm. The fact that this is difficult or unrealistic is another story.

    5. Re:That is a huge proportion by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      It wasn't Trump that took bribes to send US uranium to Russia.

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    6. Re:That is a huge proportion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There is zero chance of that happening."

      Well... If Trump starts a widespread nuclear war, then I suppose we can take comfort in the future of telepathically talking dogs.

    7. Re:That is a huge proportion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wasn't Bernie either. Thanks, DNC, for Trump.

    8. Re:That is a huge proportion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course humans create all the "problems," we are the only species that we know of on this planet that is even cognizant of problems.

      Try again.

    9. Re:That is a huge proportion by stoatwblr · · Score: 0

      ". the Western world has to cut 80% of its power consumption and the developing world 60% of its power consumption, and the whole planet has just 32 years to do it."

      or in other words, "FFS get started on a frantic nuclear power plant building program and get those fucking LFTR designs online ASAP"

  8. And the spin begins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    it didn't take long for spin to make the climate emergency less dangerous. Silly rabbits

  9. Oceans by manu0601 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Unfortunately, photosynthesis is not the only CO2 sink, as noted in the article: Oceans also take their share, and that cause their pH to drop, which in turns kills coral, and make coasts more vulnerable to erosion.

    1. Re:Oceans by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      I'm actually much more worried about ocean acidification than "climate change" which has been absurdly exaggerated as mere weather events blamed on it.

    2. Re:Oceans by Phydeaux314 · · Score: 2

      Same. Climate change on land has some serious potential effects on species that cannot adapt quickly enough and will cause some long-term issues with human habitation (some parts of the planet near the equator might become uninhabitable due to temperature or storm severity), but ocean acidification has the potential to wreck entire ecosystems.

      Too low pH in the ocean and sudden crustaceans can't make shells, and that's a MAJOR problem - and not just for people.

      --
      Never underestimate the stupidity inherent in all human beings.
    3. Re:Oceans by manu0601 · · Score: 2

      Climate change (...) will cause some long-term issues with human habitation

      I am actually very worried about impact on agriculture. Climate change will make some countries production tank, causing deaths, economical crisis, political instabilities, wars and migrations. And we already saw some instance of such trouble in the middle east.

    4. Re:Oceans by iggymanz · · Score: 2

      There was another similar major drought in 1804 that lasted 14 years. Tree rings suggest this present one is the worst in 900 years but even so it is said that "climate change partially contributes to it", in other words that it is also partly cyclical and expected. What if other areas have a bounty, because "carbon dioxide, it's what plants crave"?

    5. Re:Oceans by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      That's no comfort to where I live where rainfall has followed a downward trend from 40 years ago, statistically according to the city's rain gage - less frequent rains in summer and drier winters.

      Now maybe that's "cyclical", or part of a long term scenario where the rain falls elsewhere.

      Either way, I'm developing a green thumb and wondering if a wetter location would better suit my vegie patch in retirement!

    6. Re:Oceans by MatthiasF · · Score: 0

      This was proven to be false, increased pH does not harm coral. Studies around Australia found that river sediment had a big impact to both coral growth and CO2 concentrations in the waters nearby the river deltas.

      I believe the majority of the CO2 increase in the last century can be blamed on major dam projects reducing river sediment into the oceans. The Three Gorges dam finished and slowed river sediment from China in 2000-2002 before starting to generate electricity, right around the time the CO2 levels in the atmosphere in Hawaii peaked.

    7. Re:Oceans by JimBimBam · · Score: 1

      What is false? That acidification impairs the calcification in crustaceans? This is pretty basic chemistry. What would there be in the river sediments to compensate?

    8. Re:Oceans by MatthiasF · · Score: 2

      Most corals regulate their internal pH and studies in Australia several years ago found that the lowering of pH from CO2 rates increasing might actually increase calcification rates.

      Study results: http://www.nature.com/nclimate...
      Presentation of results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    9. Re:Oceans by MatthiasF · · Score: 1

      Sorry, forgot to respond to the second question. I don't think anyone has figured out what specifically in the river sediments were helping or at least I have not read any studies explaining it yet.

    10. Re:Oceans by JimBimBam · · Score: 1

      This is a model based study, for some species of coral, with certain caveats with regards to sea temperature. I'd be very careful to use this study to dismiss broadly the effect of acidification and sea temperature change on coral. It is interesting, of course, and not surprising that some species can adapt, but this study tell us little about the effects of acidification in the large. Thanks for the link.

    11. Re:Oceans by Megol · · Score: 1

      Proven to be false? How do you then explain damages of coral far from any river but with increased pH level? Unless one is a believer in homeopathy that makes no sense...

    12. Re:Oceans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Propose imminent destruction of Earth 2. Have as corollary the need for unlimited power to address #1 3. If challenged, play six-degrees-of-something-bad 4. Profit!

  10. A few points. by burtosis · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Somewhat misleading summary. CO2 only increases growth substantially when nutrients and sunlight are also in abundant supply. It does not affect all plant life equally. So not all areas will see the benefit of increased growth. Also as others have mentioned the mass of CO2 stored in plant mass is important but unless that mass keeps increasing quickly without dying out then it can't keep up with the supply. As it decomposes it is released back into the atmosphere.

    1. Re:A few points. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Part of the biomass accumulates in the soil when it decomposes, and that CO2 is not released into the atmosphere.

    2. Re:A few points. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Where do you think coal comes from you fucking idiot.

  11. Sequestering by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 2

    Photosynthesis by plants is another: carbon dioxide is converted, with the help of water and light energy from the sun, into sugars, which are used to make more plant matter, locking the carbon away in wood and leaves.

    ... until the plant dies, and wood/leaves either burn or rot, at which point the CO2 is released into the atmosphere again.

    We'll also need some way of getting the plant material back under the ground if we want to keep the CO2 permanently out of the atmosphere. (yes, I realize that does happen, as that's where all the coal deposits came from, etc, but I do wonder what percentage of the new plants will end up that way)

    I've wondered whether we should start putting carbon back into the ground, and whether this is feasible.

    For example, suppose we harvested unused plant products (wood, silage, whatever), ground them into a slurry, and pumped them back into old oil wells.

    This presupposes that we have transitioned to renewable energy, and that extra energy for such endeavourers is available. It looks like we're on the road to doing that - a theoretical factory getting its power from solar panels could make more panels than it needs for replacement, and there's a lot of opportunity for rooftop solar and panels in other places.

    Assuming we can afford some extra solar panels and that we have reasonable automation, could pumping excess plant matter back into the ground help?

    (Or perhaps compress the plant matter and drop it into the deep ocean, where it would be stored indefinitely.)

    1. Re:Sequestering by Immerman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's an easier and more useful method - make biochar out of it. Charcoal is far more stable than biomatter, and makes the soil more fertile at the same time, boosting future growth.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    2. Re:Sequestering by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      Yes, we can if we so choose put carbon back into the ground. One particular example is bio-char, where biomass is converted to charcoal and ploughed into fields as a soil improvement. I'm not entirely convinced as to the benefits of this, but it would certainly put carbon into the ground.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    3. Re:Sequestering by wasted · · Score: 1

      I've wondered whether we should start putting carbon back into the ground, and whether this is feasible.

      If we don't recycle plastics that aren't biodegradable, and they end up in a landfill, isn't that putting carbon back into the ground?

    4. Re:Sequestering by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      It is putting oil back into the ground.

      Not CO2 harvested from the atmosphere.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    5. Re:Sequestering by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      Um, then replace the fertilizer with what? Petroleum based fertilizer?

      Not a good idea.

    6. Re:Sequestering by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure it makes sense to dig up coal, burn it, then capture the CO2 with plants, turn that into biochar and bury it. It would be smarter to leave the coal in the ground, and build some more solar panels instead.

    7. Re:Sequestering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've wondered whether we should start putting carbon back into the ground, and whether this is feasible.

      For example, suppose we harvested unused plant products (wood, silage, whatever), ground them into a slurry, and pumped them back into old oil wells.

      This presupposes that we have transitioned to renewable energy, and that extra energy for such endeavourers is available. It looks like we're on the road to doing that - a theoretical factory getting its power from solar panels could make more panels than it needs for replacement, and there's a lot of opportunity for rooftop solar and panels in other places.

      Assuming we can afford some extra solar panels and that we have reasonable automation, could pumping excess plant matter back into the ground help?

      (Or perhaps compress the plant matter and drop it into the deep ocean, where it would be stored indefinitely.)

      I'm sorry if this seems a bit irritating, but first I am going to say to say, your references to factory is off, it's not a matter of theory(namely in that we do have existing factories, which do exist and could be measured in terms of energy matrices), and you're talking in the wrong direction by specifying the factory in the manner you did.

      Really, the only reason that would make sense is that somehow you thought a factory was a self-contained environment for the production of solar panels. Or anything. That sort of idea might cover the science-fiction idea of grey-goo nano-machine factories, or even the stellar station seed modules from others.

      In terms of the real world, the better way to account for it, if you were to care about it, is to figure out how much energy it takes to produce a solar panel, and compare it to how much it will produce over the average lifetime. Then perhaps you could ask what you could do with that power.

      However, and you may note, I said "if you were to care about it" just now, the question of what you are really talking about isn't about solar panels, or any other form of energy, it is Carbon sequestration, an already existing topic of study and review.

      All of your ideas are already covered, and I suggest you familiarize yourself more. Perhaps you are aware of them, but the presentation you have made, does not indicate such, instead of discussing carbon sequestration as an extant field, you come across more as if your ideas were novel in themselves, rather than old hat.

      This may be an oversight on your part, but I do not think my interpretation is unfair, I am only being charitable in an excess of caution, to give you the benefit of the doubt. I really do doubt your full cognizance of the situation.

    8. Re: Sequestering by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Yes. And before it was plastic it was oil. And before it was oil it was....what?

    9. Re:Sequestering by DocHoncho · · Score: 1

      This presupposes that we have transitioned to renewable energy, and that extra energy for such endeavourers is available. It looks like we're on the road to doing that - a theoretical factory getting its power from solar panels could make more panels than it needs for replacement, and there's a lot of opportunity for rooftop solar and panels in other places.

      Assuming we can afford some extra solar panels and that we have reasonable automation, could pumping excess plant matter back into the ground help?

      Unless you use renewable energy to make the biochar. You know, like what this thread is about.

      --
      Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.
    10. Re: Sequestering by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      So, I quote you: If we don't recycle plastics that aren't biodegradable, and they end up in a landfill, isn't that putting carbon back into the ground?

      No it is not.

      It is putting Oil back into the ground.

      It changes nothing to the CO2 in our atmosphere ...

      Was that explicit enough?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    11. Re: Sequestering by Bartles · · Score: 1

      I don't know who you're quoting but it isn't me.

    12. Re: Sequestering by Bartles · · Score: 1

      And oil is mostly carbon.

    13. Re: Sequestering by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Does not matter, it was the post I had answered to, when you answered back to me again

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    14. Re:Sequestering by ananamouse · · Score: 1

      >I've wondered whether we should start putting carbon back into the ground, and whether this is feasible
      Calcium Carbonate is an alternative to plastic and plants. It has worked in the past. Disclaimer, I am a classically trained rock licking geologist. The CaCO3 will be in the form of the lifeless bodies of dead things accumulating in sea bottom ooze, not that different from 'the ground' although once it becomes carbonate there is no going back. Some places will be too deep, some marginally to acid but there are large parts of the world that could support accumulation. Someone with a calculator can work out the volume of 30 gigatonnes of CO2 converted to CaCO3.

  12. Idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You fucking idiots, climate change operates on geological time scale and not decadal nor in the span of a human life time...fuck you people are stupid.

    1. Re: Idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. How can you possibly think that releasing as much co2 and other gases are as we are won't have an effect?

    2. Re: Idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dunbass cuck denier

  13. Not quite right by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes plants release much of the CO2 they absorb back into the atmosphere - but most of it is stored in the very slowly decomposing parts of the plant, and some will remain in the soil.

    However - over time as plants die new plants grow to replace them, basically making the net CO2 a slow reduction from the amount not released when dead... but on top of that as the Earth warms it will encourage more growth and therefore greater ongoing CO2 sequestration in living plants, and that means a greater ongoing reduction of CO2 from CO2 that remains in the soil.

    What is missing from the equation are estimates of how much greater the biomass will become with higher temperatures and more CO2 (which greatly encourages plant growth). I don't know I'veever seen that factored in, and to me if nothing else figured in, that absolutely puts the breaks on any kind of runaway warming scenario from CO2 - the only reason we were supposed to be scared of CO2 to begin with. The Earth (and people) can handle a 2-4C warming just fine, and will in fact thrive because of it.

    I wish people would just get past the voodoo nonsense that CO2 is the problem, when real pollution is the danger because it could affect plant life in the negative instead of the positive. Luckily much greater adoption of solar energy is inevitable now so even worries about future pollution are reduced, on top of that self-driving cars mean much more efficient use of a vehicles engine so that too leads to an automatic future reduction in real pollution.

    It may be that we might yet escape the next ice age cycle if we can really boost the global temperature enough, though I'm doubtful we can really break free of a cycle that is so fundamental.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re: Not quite right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      That much warming would easily put New York, Miami, and San Francisco underwater. No big deal I guess. Moron.

    2. Re: Not quite right by khallow · · Score: 1

      Unless of course, they move the cities. It's ridiculous to ignore that everything in human society is in motion. Just have some of those moves occasionally to higher ground.

    3. Re: Not quite right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see anything wrong there.

      If anything, New York sinking even more would create New Venice, or how I've taken to calling it, SUPER VENICE.
      Fund it.

    4. Re: Not quite right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol, i guess you must not have heard of the netherlands. "Half of the country lies below 1 meter above sea level, with an eighth of the country lying below sea level. Without an extensive network of dams, dykes and dunes, the Netherlands would be especially prone to flooding."

    5. Re: Not quite right by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      It's like you've never even visited any of those cities and have no idea how far above the shoreline most of the cities are...

      Or have any idea of how much ocean rise is really possible with 2C of warming (the currently accepted maximum prediction).

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  14. Nature Finds A Way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Suck it climate alarmists.

    1. Re:Nature Finds A Way by Art+Challenor · · Score: 1

      The Ecosystem is stable and in no particular danger. That's not the same as saying an Ecosystem that will support 7 billion humans is stable, but species extinction is part of the ultimate stabilization.

    2. Re:Nature Finds A Way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Human or not, the constant is life will always consume life. What difference does make it which form it takes?

      It's still life eating life, except for plants, which feeds off the fecal matter and remnants of life.

    3. Re:Nature Finds A Way by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      It's still life eating life, except for plants, which feeds off the fecal matter and remnants of life.

      Well, most of them. Some take matters into their own... leaves?

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    4. Re:Nature Finds A Way by pipingguy · · Score: 1

      Isn't the 'Nature Finds A Way' quote from Michael Crichton, who was a famous CAGW skeptic?

  15. Plants STOP secreting oxygen when it gets too warm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And the result is that plants start SECRETING Co2! Read the science. So, a reverse feedback loop.

  16. Huge if true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See post title

  17. Wrong by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Funny

    Coral flourishes in lower pH conditions, and the ocean is used to higher levels at times that it will ever see from atmospheric CO2.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      And why are all scientists say the opposite then and corals are dyeing all over on the planet?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    2. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And why are all scientists say the opposite then and corals are dyeing all over on the planet?

      Because they don't and they aren't, not currently and not overall.

    3. Re:Wrong by JimBimBam · · Score: 2

      Well, there are certainly credible scientists that assert that it does happen at several sites around the world. This might not cover every single coral reef in the world, but it I'd say the phenomenon is well documented and has had a massively detrimental and well-documented impact already. http://science.sciencemag.org/...

    4. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Climate change deniers

      Fuck you for trivializing the holocaust, you smug asshole.

    5. Re:Wrong by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1

      How confident would you be in biology if biologists had overlooked pooping as a way for animals to not grow as fast as their food intake would suggest? Now how about if they were predicting that animals would soon grow as big as houses, but the extra mass is hiding somewhere?

      That's basically what we are talking about here.

      Oh, and I've lived in Minnesota for a long time. It gets cold here, sometimes it gets very cold for extended periods, called a "cold snap". Calling it a polar vortex doesn't make it new.

      There is no data - just confirmation bias. You believe everything that agrees with your theory, and shout down everything that contradicts it, at least until the Hockey Team can show up and "correct" it.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    6. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Adapt to carbon acid and plastic, oceans and food cycles, or die horribly! --The ultimatum made by the human race to the oceans and food cycles of the world.

  18. The point by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The fact that the CO2 level in the atmosphere has been growing more slowly than expected, based on how much CO2 is being created due to human activity, is not new knowledge. We've known that's the case for several decades... but identifying the "sink" has been problematic. For a long while it was assumed to be the oceans, but that was shown not to be true back around 1990-ish.

    It looks like this paper is claiming to have at least partially identified the missing sink.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:The point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't take a fucking scientist to know that it's plant life that's preventing it all.

    2. Re:The point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It doesn't take a fucking scientist to know that it's plant life that's preventing it all.

      Correct: It doesn't take a scientist to be wrong about a science thing.

    3. Re:The point by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      It doesn't take a fucking scientist to know that it's plant life that's preventing it all.

      I'm going to assume you're making a (failed) joke, as opposed to being dumb enough to assume that CO2 modelers haven't been including plant respiration in their calculations.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re:The point by Gussington · · Score: 1

      The fact that the CO2 level in the atmosphere has been growing more slowly than expected, based on how much CO2 is being created due to human activity, is not new knowledge. We've known that's the case for several decades... but identifying the "sink" has been problematic.

      Seems obvious to me and I called it out a while ago. A "Greenhouse effect" would do exactly what greenhouses were designed for, to make plants grow better. More plants means more CO2 consumption.

  19. No they're not counter Climate Change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're countering CO2 concentrations which is why deserts are becoming greener and psytoplankton in seas across the globe are blooming at increased rates...

    What does this mean?

    It means that the planet has it's own natural mechanisms in place to stabilize the climate which is why life has existed here on this ball of dirt for so long.

    So no, no matter how much fossil fuels we burn the planet will not allow us to go above 400 ppm evidently hence the pause despite the increased rates of co2.

    1. Re:No they're not counter Climate Change by Megol · · Score: 1

      Are you trying to joke? It isn't funny. That Earth have regulation mechanisms is well known however there is no hard limit - those mechanisms can be overwhelmed.

  20. certain plants can also.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    help us cope with change.. climate or otherwise.

  21. It won't last. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The sink in the oceans can't last - as more CO2 is absorbed, the more acidic the water.. and the less photosynthesis can be done since the algae dies due to the polluted water.

  22. So what by prefec2 · · Score: 1

    Slowing down does not mean reduction. Furthermore it is important to know that most plant live on land reduce their CO2 intake at certain higher levels of CO2 by closing their stomas. This results in less water vapor in the air reducing the reflectiveness of the atmosphere resulting in more energy intake.

  23. Imagine that by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

    Plants actually benefit from CO2

    I may have heard this someplace before.

  24. This is a surprise? by Snotnose · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Back in the 70s a friend had a couple pot plants growing in his closet. He had a grow light and everything. About once a week we'd walk to the local Baskins Robbins, where they would give us a 1-2 lb chunk of dry ice. Mike would suspend this chunk some 3 feet over his plants, his plants seemed to love the hell out of it (hard to tell, they don't purr, or roll over for a belly rub, or anything, they just grow faster).

    / RIP Mike
    // Died 5/15 of Lou Gehrig's disease
    /// A much better person than I am

    1. Re:This is a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      (hard to tell, they don't purr, or roll over for a belly rub, or anything, they just grow faster).

      If a cat rolls over for a belly rub it's a damn trap!

    2. Re:This is a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe because he was growing in a closet without ventilation. Plants do need SOME sort of source of CO2.

  25. Translation by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1, Troll

    Allow me to translate this into English.

    We climate "scientists" haven't even mastered the basics of our field, but we are getting better. We think that we are close to plugging a gigantic fucking hole in our ignorance. Just because we can't explain the past or the present yet doesn't stop us from being 100% sure about the future.

    --
    See that "Preview" button?
  26. The way it was designed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am almost always mused by the "Scientist" that discover what is.

  27. Film at 11 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other news study shows water is wet.

  28. Bunk study? by BuckaBooBob · · Score: 1

    Where is this huge swath of land that previously didn't have any vegetation? Really sounds like Bunk..

    --
    Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt
    1. Re:Bunk study? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does not need to be land that was previously devoid of vegetation - just 18m km2 of land scattered throughout the world where vegetation density has doubled since 1982. That would technically make 18m km2 of new vegetation.

  29. So ... all this 'advancing desert stuff' is a hoax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Somehow I doubt that highly. An area roughly the size of the USA 'newly green'???? I'd LOVE to see the whole data set to see where it has been misread.

    I'll believe this when Santa comes down my chimney.

  30. Shouldn't this be testable in atmosphere? by HBI · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't you expect O2 levels to go up in response to all that new plant life photosynthesizing?

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    1. Re:Shouldn't this be testable in atmosphere? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Wouldn't you expect O2 levels to go up in response to all that new plant life photosynthesizing?

      Nope, they are talking about a "Slowing of the growth rate of atmospheric CO2". There are still an increase of the CO2 concentration, just a slower one than before. They don't mention it in the paper but the tree huggers succeeded to prevent a lot of deforestation in the last 20 years. Some forest are even reconstituting.

      But the effect is only temporary until all the new trees reach maturity. It acts as a buffer which amortizes the rate of increase in a certain small range.

      They based all the study on the assumption there is a pause in increase. This assumption is based on very weak p-values, and they choose variable size time intervals (which is always suspicious for comparisons):

      is. The red lines indicate a significant increasing trend from 1959 to 1990 (solid red) and 1959 to 2002 (dashed red) (P<0.1) [...] Lines indicate significant long-term trends over the periods 1959–1988 (red, increasing) and 2002–2014 (blue, decreasing) at P<0.1. The red dashed line shows a slight increasing trend between 1959 and 2002 (P=0.18)

      The p-value are quite strange. Usually p-value are better for longer period than for short period (More samples) which is not the case here. This can be a hint of a unhealthy usage of statistics.

      The probability of rejecting the null hypothesis: there is there is no CO2 slowdown, this just a random artifact) is related to both p-value from the previous period and the current period. Both null hypothesis : from 2002-2014 p-value 0.1 and from 1959-2002 p-value 0.18 needs to be at least rejected. P[both rejected] = 1 - 0.82*0.9 = 0.262. The chance of this being a random artifact is at least 25%.

  31. And more Cabon Truth by laurencetux · · Score: 1

    you can make "Oil" and "Coal" by heating/pressing plant mulch and it does not take all that much time at all (a proper plant can do like Tons per week)

    heck for what its worth you could filter algae out of Seawater (discard the salt and water) and make lots of Oil

    Open Challenge for the Bright Sparks: Create a Coastal Plant that creates Oil with as Green a setup as possible

    (bonus challenge: Build it on a Floating Rig that can be Towed into place)

  32. blackberrys (the plant, not the phone) by Nethead · · Score: 1

    So maybe that explains why the blackberry vines seemed so aggressive this year.

    --
    -- I have a private email server in my basement.
  33. All civilizations go through this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On all planets, fossil fuels is the first step. We will change and adapt like we are programmed to.

  34. In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wind resistance from outstretched arms will slow your fall off a cliff.

  35. No shit, Sherlock! by blindseer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is not news to people that have paid attention to the science of global warming. As much as the AGW alarmists scream about "science" you'd think that they'd stop screaming once in a while and do some actual science. But then if they had then they wouldn't be AGW alarmists.

    The correlation between plant growth and CO2 concentration is not news to anyone that has even minimal knowledge of biology. CO2 is plant food, if you make more food available to them they tend to grow faster, stronger, and higher. It should be only a small leap in logic that natural plant growth will place a limit on the speed in which CO2 concentrations can grow and how high those concentrations can get.

    What is finally making the AGW types pay attention to the science is that we haven't seen any real warming for two decades. What we'll see next is some articles about scientists noticed that the recent sea level rise has been happening for a very long time and at a rate that has been relatively constant for centuries.

    I will stop just short of calling AGW a hoax because everyone involved knows very little on how the climate works. What I am quite certain about is that people have been using AGW as an excuse to grow government power and/or personally enrich themselves with "fixes" to AGW that are hoaxes.

    A bad car analogy is having car troubles and focusing on only the left rear tire valve stem. With all the complexities to the climate it is madness to attribute any climate changes to only CO2 produced from human fossil fuel consumption. It is then further madness to not recognize the natural systems that have kept this system stable for so long and how that might interact with that increased CO2 output.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:No shit, Sherlock! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://woodfortrees.org/plot/

      I'll just leave this here - there are a dozen or more different data sources. If you can find a single one not showing an increase in temps then you win.

    2. Re:No shit, Sherlock! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you'd think that they'd stop screaming once in a while and do some actual science

      Actual science isn't where the money is. This has been demonstrated by the starvation of funding for real science whilst billions are shifted to these hucksters. Ask someone working on the AIDS problem what it's like to get a grant these days, let alone someone pursuing a pure research undertaking.

    3. Re:No shit, Sherlock! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The correlation between plant growth and CO2 concentration is not news to anyone that has even minimal knowledge of biology.

      That's right. And anyone who has even slightly more than a minimal knowledge of plant biology also knows that most plants can't make use of much more CO2 than they already get on a daily basis. The only way plants make use of CO2 is photosynthesis. Most of them have evolved to make efficient use of the amount of CO2 we have in our atmosphere and the amount of sunlight they tend to receive. But the climate is changing faster than plants can evolve, which for example is why we're seeing this pine dieoff in California. There are many other relevant factors besides CO2 levels, and they limit the usefulness of this effect in avoiding global warming.

      A bad car analogy is

      ...useless tripe from people who tend to understand neither cars nor the systems to which they are trying to draw an analogy. PLS STAHP

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:No shit, Sherlock! by blindseer · · Score: 1

      I stated "that we haven't seen any real warming for two decades" which will not show on those graphs because they use different time scales. If man made CO2 is the cause of global warming then we'd have seen warming during the time in which the CO2 concentration has been highest, in the last 20 years.

      People can show warming or cooling by cherry picking a starting point in the historical temperature data. I noticed a lot of charts will start in the 1940s, because temps were cooling before then. The temp in 1934 was higher than 1998. I've seen charts start in 1975 or so, because temps cooled before then too.

      Humans have lived through a lot of warming and cooling but we didn't burn oil or coal in any significant quantity until the Industrial Revolution. Even after that time we saw a few warming and cooling periods. Putting any blame on humans for warming since that time should also mean giving us credit for any cooling, no?

      We've seen cooling in global temps since 1998. The AGW types won't give credit to humans for this, even though humans have done so much to reduce CO2 emissions. But no, people bad, nature good.

      I think I realized why these types are called "tree huggers", because if they embraced just about any other living thing they'd be injured or dead. Go hug some poison oak, a cactus, or a hornets nest. Give give a big ol' bear hug to an actual bear. At some point in giving the bear a hug your carbon cycle will complete and no one has to worry about your carbon foot print ever again.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    5. Re:No shit, Sherlock! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh...pretty sure you are discounting the effect of latent genes that may get expressed in a more CO2 rich environment. But hey, go on with your science thing based on pure faith.

    6. Re:No shit, Sherlock! by r0kk3rz · · Score: 1

      CO2 is plant food, if you make more food available to them they tend to grow faster, stronger, and higher. It should be only a small leap in logic that natural plant growth will place a limit on the speed in which CO2 concentrations can grow and how high those concentrations can get.

      Hold up, 'small logic leap'? you shouldn't make leaps in logic because that means you're missing something.

      Plants make use of CO2 sure enough, but it absolutely does not follow that they somehow put an upper limit on CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, cracking CO2 takes a lot of energy, which puts an absolute hard limit on the amount of plant growth possible in any given area. Couple that with the deforestation that we've done over the last 100 years and continue to do, as well as the industrial scale at which we produce CO2, and it seems reasonable that we can pump out CO2 at a higher pace than the plants can keep up.

      Mining analogy, humans have a Bagger 288 digging a mountain, and the plants have an army of people with shovels trying to remove it

    7. Re:No shit, Sherlock! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Uh...pretty sure you are discounting the effect of latent genes that may get expressed in a more CO2 rich environment.

      I'm pretty sure you're going to have to display a citation if you want to suggest that's going to make any significant difference in this case.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  36. whew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good thing Trump arrived on the scene before the panicky humans stampeded.

  37. Water Cycle Restoration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps the situation would speed up those water cycle restoration projects? At least for now..

  38. Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, the greening of the planet has been predicted for a long time. So has the drying, burning, and desertification.

    Other predictions have already come to pass, such as weather patterns behind the extreme cold caused by the polar vortex of Winter 2012 in North America. The weather in Michigan very much resembled "The Day After Tomorrow".

    Climate change deniers simply like to imagine that scientists have missed a magic solution. There is simply too much data from too many sources to be denied any longer.

  39. The big question.. by thesupraman · · Score: 2

    Which has been evident for quite some time is...

    WHY is this not being allowed for in predictive models? Why should this is new to the people working on this?

    We are regularly told how old the knowledge that atmospheric CO2 increases heat trapping is (and that is true).
    And yet, models do not allow for increased plant growth rates, and increased total living biomass thanks to increased rain, increased average temperature, and increased CO2... The effects of those on plant grows is even older...

    The easy assumption is because those mitigate the models significantly, therefore making the results less worth of funding.

    That is, of course, the problem with the modern scientific 'method', it is all about media attention, publication success, etc. Not about actual science.
    Come on guys, if you are going to model a system, leaving out the majority of active biomass matters..

    1. Re:The big question.. by jcr · · Score: 0, Troll

      WHY is this not being allowed for in predictive models?

      What are these "predictive models" of which you speak? The only models I'm hearing about are the ones that have been overestimating temperatures for the last two decades.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:The big question.. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      The easy assumption is because those mitigate the models significantly

      Or maybe it's not that significant? It may or may not matter for the achievability of the temperature targets. Or, as the article notes, the growth may actually offset its CO2-absorbing benefits by means of such things as adverse albedo changes. "The easy assumption" is actually that this may not have been included simply for its negligible overall impact and/or lower predictability, and that the people in question know why they didn't include it.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re: The big question.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The midpoint of the models for RCP8.5, even from 1990, is pretty much exactly the warming we've seen for an emissions regime very close to RCP8.5

    4. Re: The big question.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Climate models do generally include factors relating to plant life, as feedbacks and forcings. It's not exactly known as reproducible studies in lab conditions are difficult due to the scale required and thus cost.

      The other complexity in terms of modelling to make predictions is that human activity (change in forest management, crops choices, irrigation) could have a significant impact that the models can't hope to predict.

      Another complicating aspect is that more CO2 stimulates some plants (it depends on photosynthetic pathway) other limiting factors in a particular area may be a limiting factor, for example, water. Twenty five years ago the regional resolution of models was insufficient to know if an area that might otherwise have vegetation stimulated might be hit with droughts

    5. Re: The big question.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So in other words, you agree that the models do not consider this factor. Got it.

    6. Re: The big question.. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      So, you are saying that the RCP8.5 matches up "pretty much exactly" with the warming? That is nowhere close to what I have heard with the "hiatus" and other corrections being done.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  40. Yes, permanent (mostly).. by thesupraman · · Score: 2

    You do realise that when a plant dies and rots (burns? really? that is a tiny TINY proportion) then the majority of the carbon in it ends up in soil, not as a gas, right?

    I know you probably dont try this much in your inner city apartment, but try spending a bit of time in the real works.
    This is exactly where SOIL comes from. I can guarantee you that if you put a box of lawn clippings on the ground somewhere, they do not evaporate into CO2.

    There is of course some gas release (and a number of gasses), however the majority ends up captured. Go dig up some soil under a nice deciduous tree and you will find the soil is MUCH richer there..

  41. Sorry, Right. by thesupraman · · Score: 1

    No, there are a few scientists pointing at coral dieback, and global warming and shouting 'See! Correlation!'
    Of course it is very simple to test, and you will notice that these particular scientists do not actually do such tests.
    The ones who do (and the ones with ANY idea of coral history and historical ocean acidity) realise this is a load of bull.

    Almost certainly coral dieback is caused by actual chemical pollution. You know, the stuff everyone ignores now that they have the bigger (and much more profitable) boogeyman of CO2..

    As it happens, pollution caused coral dieback is also the cause of the 'pacific atoms vanishing below the rising oceans'. This, again is well known by the actual scientists who have studied it, and is clearly shown as the islands with overpopulation are the ones sinking, and the nearly islands without humans are growing.. damn facts getting in the way!

    The problem is politics and money.. Pacific islands want money, and ocean researchers want money, and the evil global warming means money!

    1. Re:Sorry, Right. by JimBimBam · · Score: 1

      So it's all a conspiracy? Alright, I'll weigh the arguments from a peer reviewed paper in a well regarded journal a little more than some random commenter on Slashdot. No offense.

    2. Re:Sorry, Right. by Dorianny · · Score: 2

      I guess the only group that doesn't want money and has no political influence is the 1 Trillion a year fossil fuels Industry. If researchers were after money you would think they would go asking the deep pockets for it, not the tree-huggers. But than again if they were smart they would have picked a more lucrative career path to begin with

    3. Re:Sorry, Right. by ananamouse · · Score: 1

      >As it happens, pollution caused coral dieback is also the cause of the 'pacific atoms vanishing below the rising oceans'. This, a \n Did you mean 'atol'? If you did they are the product of plate tectonics http://gji.oxfordjournals.org/... is a good follow up to the WIKI stuff on guyots.

  42. Sorry, Wrong. by thesupraman · · Score: 0

    Because they havent, sorry to say.

    In fact they have actively argued AGAINST including it, for a number of reasons, none of them sane - while avoiding the main reason, that it stops their models from producing such alarming (and therefore funding producing) numbers.

    Actually, it is not quite true. A few have included some such numbers, however even those assume that biomas is a constantly REDUCING quantity.
    Because, as we know, increased temperature, increased rainfall, and increased CO2 levels (the three things they universally predict) are all hated by plants, and reduce their growth rates..
    Doh.

    1. Re:Sorry, Wrong. by Megol · · Score: 1

      You keep believing that, just wear a tinfoil hat for both you and our benefit please. Have to know who to avoid...

  43. Re:The big answer.. by Layzej · · Score: 0

    WHY is this not being allowed for in predictive models?

    It is. CO2 growth rate is not generally an output of the models. CO2 growth rate is largely determined by what policies we put in place. The IPCC produces several projections showing how climate will react to mild, moderate, and high CO2 growth. Which pathway we follow is largely up to us.

  44. Except ... by evanh · · Score: 1

    , as your parent post linked, we've climbed off the hockey stick hock and now rocketing at maximum velocity toward oblivion.

    1. Re:Except ... by hucker75 · · Score: 0

      People are far too pessimistic. If no mankind had ever lived on this planet, we'd go through cycles of ice ages and all manner of difficult things anyway. See what happens, then live with it, it'll be more fun than the boring weather we have now.

  45. Rainforest Action by retroworks · · Score: 1

    IMHO the environmental activist community dropped the ball after Rain Forest preservation was the #1 agenda topic in the 1990s. In addition to being a carbon sink, the forests are the habitat for most threatened species. I was always lukewarm to Al Gore and 350.org for that political reason, they lost a lot of activist invested collateral.

    --
    Gently reply
    1. Re:Rainforest Action by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      IMHO the environmental activist community dropped the ball after Rain Forest preservation was the #1 agenda topic in the 1990s.

      Could you elaborate? They were right. You're not making much sense. That the world failed to listen to them is not their fault. Did you want them to blow everything up, or what?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  46. Allergies by zifn4b · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this is why I seem to have much worse allergies over the past 10-15 years, more weeds. A win for Flonase I suppose.

    --
    We'll make great pets
  47. Space! by PatientZero · · Score: 1

    Can't we make rockets out of wood and launch them into space? Problem solved!

    --
    Freedom to fear. Freedom from thought. Freedom to kill.
    I guess the War on Terror really is about freedom!
  48. A non problem requiring no solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really? Folks are still worried about something where the first variable is the sun, the scond variable precession and nutatation in the. sun/earth/moon system, the third variable water vapor, the fourth variable life, the fifth variable methane... what do all these variables have in common ? No ability for humans to affect them...

  49. Trees at work by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    No matter your position on AGW, I think the good thing about this paper is that it shows we can make very real consumer decisions to impact the rate of global warming. It seems simplistic however the choice of a piece of fruit over a bag of chips impacts the amount of palm oil consumed for food products, which slows down the rate of deforestation in tropical regions for palm oil production, which slows the acceleration of global warming.

    The salient observations from this study are:

    highlights the need to protect both existing carbon stocks and regions, where the sink is growing rapidly. Anyone arguing that plants are having an impact on sequestering CO2 from the atmosphere is also arguing for an immediate cessation of logging as the study is saying is that forests (especially tropical) have to be protected for this to continue to have an impact on global warming.

    So dumping that palm oil laden food (why do you want to eat that shit anyway) in our diets will have an impact restoring a lot of those tropical forests. That is a powerful tool in reducing atmospheric CO2. That is a strong argument against fast food products.

    Global warming over vegetated land notably slowed since the start of the twenty-first century23, while atmospheric CO2 concentrations continue to rise In other word go hug a tree and say thank you for absorbing some of the impact of global warming. Perhaps the reason people don't notice the effects of AGW is because trees are reducing the effect of heat islands in citys. Is there anyone *against* having more trees in cities?

    I think the rate of ecosystem respiration (R_eco) in comparison to global land temperature in this paper is interesting. I wonder what the gross global mass of forests was during the measurement of the trends, and if R_eco is related to decreasing global mass of forest during the same period.

    This could be a powerful tool for reversing the trend of shrinking polar ice caps by controlling deforestation. I was astounded to discover from a plant biologist that a single tree in a forest could move *70 tons* of water in one day. We were looking at a 30 odd metre tall tree and not a rain forest either.

    So in addition to comparing gross global mass of forest from 1980-2000 I think it would be interesting to compare loss of polar ice from 2000-2012 when this study shows there was a *decrease* in R_eco. What is R_eco compared to annual polar ice accumulation?

    recent reports suggest continued warming over oceans So where there are no trees, it gets hotter. Hotter over oceans, hotter in deserts, hotter pretty much where ever humans don't want to be, with the exception of cities where we use air conditioning and tend to hang out in parks and gardens near trees.

    Atmospheric CO2 concentrations increased from roughly 290p.p.m. at the start of the twentieth century to 400p.p.m. by 2015 In other words atmospheric CO2 increased by 110ppm in the 20th century.....somehow

    slow the growth rate of atmospheric CO2 despite increasing anthropogenic emissions slow the 'growth rate' means it is still increasing. According to the study there is a lot of year on year variability and that *ALL* of the trees everywhere on earth (GPP) absorb roughly 2-3ppm CO2 from the atmosphere annually.

    The slowdown in global warming is expected to be temporary however and may already have ended with the strong El Niño Southern Oscillation of 2015 and 2016 In other words it looks like the effect was temporary and that even with the effect, carbon emissions are not pegged at *any* level they are still increasing.

    Without effective reduction of global CO2 emissions, however, future climate change remains a stark reality. If you are going to cite this paper as showing evidence that CO2 emissions are pegged at any level because of trees, you have missed the point and you are exhibiting signs of confirmation bias. A pause means it is a temporary effect.

    The main thing I

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  50. Misleading and dramatic by gantry · · Score: 1

    What the article's title means by "Recent pause in the growth rate of atmospheric CO2 due to enhanced terrestrial carbon uptake" is simply that the growth rate over the last 14 years is constant, i.e. the rate itself is not increasing (as it had been for the previous 44 years). The growth rate is not zero. Its derivative, the second derivative of atmospheric CO2 with time, is zero.

    The use of the word "pause" makes the result seem more dramatic than it really is, and is wide open to misinterpretation by climate change deniers. It is a pity that the journal and its reviewers did not pick up on this - but then dramatic headlines improve circulation, just as they improve researchers' careers. A paper with a less dramatic title might not have been accepted by such a prestigious journal.

  51. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  52. 18m square kilometers: An area less than 32m * 32m by ffkom · · Score: 1

    That is very very little. Could it be that SI-challenged writers confused "milli" and "Mega" suffixes, again, and they actually mean 18,000,000 (km)^2, rather than 0.018 (km)^2?

  53. Yay we're slowing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    down the rate at which we'll reach the point where we have fucked our selves over. Lets pat ourselves on the back and burn more coal and oil.

  54. RTFA by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 3, Informative

    The new plant life in the headline is from Global Warming melting ice. So you have to acknowledge AGW exists if you recognize that an area "twice the size of the US" has melted.

    Also if you had RTFA you would have noted that the world can warm without increasing CO2. The plants themselves absorb heat unlike snow and the melting tundra also releases methane, a greenhouse gas substantially more effective at retaining heat than even CO2.

    This is only a source of a short term blip on one specific statistic.