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Las Vegas Gets "Kinetic Tiles" That Power Lights With Foot Traffic (arstechnica.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the pedestrian-power dept.

An anonymous reader quotes Ars Technica: A New York-based startup called EnGoPlanet has installed four streetlights in a plaza off the Las Vegas Strip that are powered exclusively by solar and kinetic energy. The installations aren't mere streetlights though -- they also power a variety of environmental monitors, support video surveillance, and, for the masses, offer USB ports for device charging.

The streetlights are topped by a solar panel crest, and have "kinetic tiles" on the ground below them. These panels reportedly can generate 4 to 8 watts from people walking on them, depending on the pressure of the step. The renewable energy is then collected by a battery for use at night. The solar-plus-kinetic energy design is useful on those rare Vegas days without too much sun -- as long as there is still plenty of foot traffic.

52 of 86 comments (clear)

  1. older pedestrians die by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    thinking they have passed on

  2. little brother powers big brother by beckett · · Score: 3, Interesting

    i love how the video advert sneaks in "Video Monitoring" as one of the many features that will be powered by humans at about 1:06. However, the use of "smart analytics" as describing a human powered Stingray/IMEI catcher has got to be a first.

    1. Re:little brother powers big brother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My first thought about "smart analytics" in this context is gait recognition. Shouldn't be hard to build a profile on you based on the times and places you walk over one of these panels.

    2. Re:little brother powers big brother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Protip, just keep drinking. Intoxication influences one's gait; if you get progressively more drunk as you move from place to place, they'll have a hard time building that profile.

  3. Everything old is new again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This just in from 2006...

    Man Power: Pressure Pads Under Pavements Could Generate Electricity From Every Step We Take
    http://www.redorbit.com/news/t...

  4. I'm no physicist but... by mattventura · · Score: 4, Informative

    Conservation of energy? Isn't this just making the pedestrians expend more energy to walk?

    1. Re:I'm no physicist but... by sunking2 · · Score: 1, Funny

      Good thing you aren't a physicist.

    2. Re:I'm no physicist but... by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Not really. It's just stealing from the normal force which the Earth would exert against your feet anyway. So the Earth pushes back less against you (because it's the tiles doing the pushing) and the energy difference is harnessed by the tiles and converted to electrochemical energy. The force you exert on the ground is mg (mass times gravity). That doesn't change if you're standing on a concrete tile or if you're standing on a spring. The work to compress the spring is being done by gravity not you. You're just the mass.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    3. Re:I'm no physicist but... by caseih · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Care to explain? Because he's right. Walkers will have to expend a bit of extra work while walking on these tiles. It might not be much of course, and hardly noticeable to most perhaps. But I'd think it'd be similar to the difference between walking on soft grass or carpet vs pavement or concrete. The latter two surfaces absorb very little of the walking energy.

    4. Re:I'm no physicist but... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 4, Informative

      I am a physicist, and the OP has a valid point.

      Walking on a sidewalk fitted with these kinetic tiles would feel somewhat similar to walking up a slight incline. The extra expended energy would be modest, but real.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    5. Re:I'm no physicist but... by caseih · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No I don't think so. Work is not done unless there is movement involved. Just standing on the surface represents potential energy but not kinetic. There's no "stealing from the normal force which the Earth would exert." If that was true our energy problems would be over! Clean energy from nothing. The dream of crack pots everywhere.

      It's also not true that gravity provides the energy for a mass compressed by gravity on a spring. Gravity can only work with the potential energy that was imparted by work to the mass. In other words it still takes energy to lift the mass up and place it on the spring, which is then compressed by gravity. There's no free lunch here.

      Have you ever walked or run on a concrete sidewalk vs soft grass? There's even a difference between, albeit slight, between walking on pavement and concrete. There's a small but distinguishable difference in the amount of energy it takes to walk or even ride on the different surfaces. The kinetic tiles would be similar. The energy they generate comes from our stride, so that means our bodies have to work just a tiny bit harder.

    6. Re:I'm no physicist but... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Walking on a sidewalk fitted with these kinetic tiles would feel somewhat similar to walking up a slight incline.

      I've seen the people walking around Las Vegas. They could stand a little extra exercise.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    7. Re:I'm no physicist but... by v1 · · Score: 1

      Indeed, same thing happens with these roadways they're trying to use to power stuff like ice indicators and traffic displays. That energy's gotta come from somewhere. Either it's hitting up your MPG or is making your walk more tiring.

      I bet it's quite noticeable on a bicycle too. And pushing that baby stroller just got more fun. But on the upside, it'll probably reduce the number of posers flying by on their longboards and rollerblades.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    8. Re:I'm no physicist but... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      The only reason I could see for such tiles would be if walking on them were somehow friendlier to people with leg injuries, dodgy knees etc. That would have been a better reason than something that can be fixed with a simple length of wire attached to the grid, with a solar panel elsewhere.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    9. Re:I'm no physicist but... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      In other words if the place had soft carpet and replaced it with these tiles, the energy expended would be the same. Probably nosier though.

      Maybe they could sell them as fitness devices too, like those shoes that put you off balance deliberately.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:I'm no physicist but... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      That is in no way a bad thing. I think most people in the US could do with a little bit more energy expended.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    11. Re:I'm no physicist but... by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      The problem is that they'll eat more to compensate. And food energy is terribly inefficient.

    12. Re:I'm no physicist but... by sunking2 · · Score: 1

      No, its not a valid point. You assume the energy comes from having to work harder. If it were to require more energy going in then that would be a characteristic of the material used and has nothing to do with conservation of energy. The Earth in the end is the energy 'ground'. This simply takes some of that energy and directs it into a device that converts it to electricity before it eventually makes it way to ground. That's called....Conservation of Energy....

    13. Re:I'm no physicist but... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I doubt it. Not in the US. Not really anyway to know without a controlled experiment, but my gut feeling would be that most people would eat the same. Especially in a place like Vegas where tourists will eat to gorge themselves, not eat to meet a daily-burn energy requirement.

      People in the West don't eat to meet energy requirements, they eat because they enjoy eating and they get hungry. Most of us overeat to some degree, or at least eat more than we really need to. I doubt an ever so slight increase in our overall energy expenditure will lead to more food being eaten.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    14. Re:I'm no physicist but... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      While what you say is mostly true, it's more comfortable to walk on surfaces that have a small amount of give. The human walking motion is far less efficient than a wheel (obviously, or people would be able to walk as fast as they can cycle for the same amount of effort) and a big chunk of the wasted energy is in the backwards force. This is dissipated by heating the ground or your joints (and wearing away the cartilage in your knee, in particular).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    15. Re:I'm no physicist but... by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      From TFA:

      These panels reportedly can generate 4 to 8 watts from people walking on them, depending on the pressure of the step

      Harnessing the power of American Obesity. Take THAT you scrawny furriners!

    16. Re:I'm no physicist but... by Wargames · · Score: 1

      What if the sidewalks have a slight downward slope?

      --
      -- Each tock of the Planck clock is a new world and here we are still life. --
    17. Re:I'm no physicist but... by ferret4 · · Score: 1

      someone upvote this for hilarity :-) (and for the pendants - it's not wrong, but unless you're in an escher drawing you've got to go back uphill some day)

    18. Re:I'm no physicist but... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      +1 funny for you and the GP. Thanks for the improvement!

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    19. Re:I'm no physicist but... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      You have a point about springiness of the tiles vs. walking uphill (sloppiness on my part) but the snarky poster is not correct. Conservation of energy is relevant here, and always.

      Tiles could be constructed that take energy from footsteps while *also* making it easier to walk and also being easier on your foot and joints.

      No, because Second Law of Thermodynamics. Anything that takes energy from your body will cause work to be done by your foot and joints. If it becomes "easier" for your foot and joints, then you have recovered the energy that your foot and joints conveyed into the mechanical system.

      This is because some of the energy that would be dissipated into the foot and joints could instead be captured as electrical and potential energy. The ground would then feel springy, which could help you walk (although from personal experience, this works best for running).

      If that energy is recovered with this springiness so as to "help you walk" then it is not captured by the energy-harvesting tiles.

      The law that entropy always increases holds, I think, the supreme position among the laws of Nature. If someone points out to you that your pet theory of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell's equations — then so much the worse for Maxwell's equations. If it is found to be contradicted by observation — well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation. -- Sir Arthur Eddingon

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    20. Re:I'm no physicist but... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      Tiles could be constructed that take energy from footsteps while *also* making it easier to walk and also being easier on your foot and joints.

      No, because Second Law of Thermodynamics. Anything that takes energy from your body will cause work to be done by your foot and joints. If it becomes "easier" for your foot and joints, then you have recovered the energy that your foot and joints conveyed into the mechanical system.

      Gaah, sorry. I meant the First law. You can't get more energy out of the system than you put into it. Getting energy from your walking and making it easier for you to walk would do that.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  5. Progress by ChrisMaple · · Score: 4, Funny

    Pretty soon now we'll reach the middle of the 19th century, and we'll have treadle powered sewing machines.

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    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    1. Re: Progress by bestweasel · · Score: 1

      Yes but they'll be wireless treadle sewing machines with LEDs and USB ports.

    2. Re: Progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Nope, these sidewalk panels are very different from those, they don't move on you. They stay in place.

      They are extracting power from these tiles. Power is the rate of doing work. 'Work' in physics is a force moving through a distance.

      """In physics, a force is said to do work if, when acting there is a displacement of the point of application in the direction of the force. For example, when a ball is held above the ground and then dropped, the work done on the ball as it falls is equal to the weight of the ball (a force) multiplied by the distance to the ground (a displacement)."""

      If there is no displacement then there is no work being done and thus no power being generated.

      ie: you are wrong.

      The distance may be quite small and could be in any direction (for example horizontal), but regardless of how it works it will require more effort to walk on it than walking on an unmovable surface. If the movement is horizontal then each step will move you slightly less distance so you will have to take more steps, if vertical then you will have to step upwards slightly like walking up a slight incline.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_%28physics%29
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_%28physics%29

    3. Re: Progress by MMC+Monster · · Score: 2

      [...]Or underneath somebody dancing while trying to sleep.

      This is Vegas. If someone over you is dancing, you just paid $20 and probably not looking forward to a nap.

      --
      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
  6. I guess the Matrix was right... by glennrrr · · Score: 1

    ...if human beings are an efficient source of energy for electronics.

    1. Re:I guess the Matrix was right... by glenebob · · Score: 1

      That's kind of the point. We most certainly are not an efficient source of energy.

    2. Re:I guess the Matrix was right... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      "Each footstep can create 4 to 8 watts"

      No... Fucking... Chance...

      You'd be surprised.

      Let's assume a person with a mass of 80 kg sinks 0.5 cm into one of the tiles every 0.5 s. Then the energy conveyed to the tile is mgh = 80 kg * 9.8 m/s^2 * 0.005 m = 3.92 kg*m/s^2 = about 4 joules. At a walking pace of 1/0.5s, that corresponds to about 4/0.5 = 8 watts. Allowing for inefficiencies up to 50%, you get the 4 to 8 watt figure in TFA.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  7. Ever walked on a trampoline? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Have you ever walked on trampoline or any other springed surface? It makes it harder to walk.

    Since you like to use the physics terms, it's all about potential energy. Prior to stepping on the pad, you have a certain amount potential energy due to your altitude. Stepping on the pad, you go DOWN. That's a loss of energy, you have to exert effort to return back up where you started. That's the energy powering the electric stuff, it takes potential energy from pedestrians, requiring them to step up slightly to get off the pad.

    Fortunately, a little bit of padding is more comfortable than concrete, even though it takes more energy.

    1. Re:Ever walked on a trampoline? by BitterOak · · Score: 1

      Have you ever walked on trampoline or any other springed surface? It makes it harder to walk.

      Actually, a springy surface is easy to walk on cause the springs return the energy back to you when you lift your feet. An energy absorbing material would be more like walking on sand, which is very difficult cause as you compress the sand when you walk, the energy is converted to heat and wasted. Try running on a sandy beach, and you'll see what I mean. I imagine walking on this sort of floor will be somewhat like walking on sand: very tiring.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
  8. Be stupid OR a dick, not a stupid dick by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I can tolerate someone being a dick. I don't mind when people are clueless. But when you're clueless, don't be a dick. Here's the physics explanation for you, since you clearly never passed Physics 101:

    https://hardware.slashdot.org/...

  9. Re:Rare vegas days? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Informative

    Between Oct and March/April the sun goes down around 5/6 pm and rises around 7/8 am

    Sunrise in Las Vegas on March 1 is 6:10am.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  10. Foot powered video surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    ..but unfortunately sarge, all the surveillance footage stopped abruptly after the gunman shouted "Nobody move"

  11. Solar Roadways? by JBMcB · · Score: 1

    You mean, if you put solar panels high and angle them TOWARDS the sun, they work better? And they don't get all smashed and dirty?

    That's so crazy it just might work!

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
  12. Is weight a factor? by Dave+Emami · · Score: 1

    Do heavier people generate more power when walking on these? Maybe those buffets we have here will serve an extra purpose now.

    --

    "The Greens lynched a hacker in Chicago. Last month, but I think the body's still hanging from the old Water Tower."
  13. Been done before by AxeTheMax · · Score: 1
    https://www.ovoenergy.com/blog...

    and many others, even if maybe they miss out what seems to be this scheme's USP, adding solar power to it.

  14. Fat surges by Mats+Svensson · · Score: 1

    Better have some mighty current limiters installed, if Americans are going to walk on them.

  15. Re:um... by wkwilley2 · · Score: 1

    No no no, they work for each other.

    --
    Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?
  16. Sigh always a pointless gimmick in these by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

    8 watts from the kinetic

    http://www.instructables.com/i...

    There you go garbage 1 watt panel. How much anyone want to bet that 8 nice panels and batteries are far cheaper than these ?

    And for people who have never been to Vegas walking is not how how you want to get around, unless you are real fond of heat stroke.

  17. Depends by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    "These panels reportedly can generate 4 to 8 watts from people walking on them, depending on the pressure of the step. "

    That's for tourists, for real Americans it's more like 16-18 watts.

  18. Yes but... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    The amount of power they're taking is very small, it's not over the whole sidewalk, and anyway there's a clever way to turn it into a virtue; if you make it a bit springy and only collect some of the energy then it will feel rewarding instead of sapping.

    If you actually did the whole sidewalk you could take less power than people's shoes waste in heat due to compression and still run your LED streetlights... Like the other comments have pointed out, there's plenty of mass to work with there

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Yes but... by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      The amount of power they're taking is very small

      In that case, you could easily run the streetlights with solar panels. Or, for that matter, a simple power cable buried under the sidewalk.

    2. Re:Yes but... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I agree that this is not really someplace this is needed. It's an easy place to test it, because of the quantity of foot traffic. It seems like it would be more useful in parks, rest stops and the like.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  19. Economic viability? by sjbe · · Score: 1

    A New York-based startup called EnGoPlanet has installed four streetlights in a plaza off the Las Vegas Strip that are powered exclusively by solar and kinetic energy. The installations aren't mere streetlights though -- they also power a variety of environmental monitors, support video surveillance, and, for the masses, offer USB ports for device charging.

    While this sounds like a neat technical proof-of-concept, I cannot imagine that it would be economically viable for an application like this. The tiles would have to be be impossibly cheap for this to cost even close to the cost of grid power. I could see potential uses for the technology (emergency power comes to mind) but this particular application doesn't seem optimum. Might be a great way to prove the concept though and test it in a heavy utilization environment.

  20. Government tax break for Buffets by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

    Las Vegas should now give a tax break for the all you can eat buffets.

    The tiles produce more energy the more pressure (bigger the lardarse stepping on it). Fat people = more electricity. All those Vegas mega-buffets are now helping power the city. Vegas should give them a tax break.

    Oh, and who said Obesity was a strain on the economy- obesity is fighting back and producing more electricity.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  21. Depending on the pressure of the step? by cogeek · · Score: 1

    No wonder they've been fattening up Americans for so long... We really are just a power source for the Matrix.

  22. Re:Rare vegas days? by Quirkz · · Score: 1

    For the curious, this is one of my favorite resources for checking sunrise and sunset times:

    http://www.sunrisesunset.com/c...

    I'm not sure if it's fully global, but I see UK and Australia on the main page, and have used it for multiple locations in the states.

    The grandparent is definitely confusing Nov-Jan (the darkest of the year) and expanding into fall and spring months that are much closer to 50/50.

    --
    The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay