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French Man Sentenced To Two Years In Prison For Visiting Pro-ISIS Websites (theverge.com)
According to French media, a court in the department of Ardeche on Tuesday sentenced a 32-year-old man in France to two years in prison for repeatedly visiting pro-ISIS websites -- even though there was no indication he planned to stage a terrorist attack. Police raided his house and found the man's browsing history. They also found pro-ISIS images and execution videos on his phone, personal computer, and a USB stick, an ISIS flag wallpaper on his computer, and a computer password that was "13novembrehaha," referencing the Paris terrorist attacks that left 130 people dead. Slashdot reader future guy shares with us an excerpt from The Verge's report: In court, the man argued that he visited the sites out of curiosity. "I wanted to tell the difference between real Islam and the false Islam, now I understand," he said, according to FranceBleu. But the man reportedly admitted to not reading other news sites or international press, and family members told the court that his behavior had recently changed. He became irritated when discussing religion, they said, and began sporting a long beard with harem pants. A representative from the Ardeche court confirmed to The Verge that there was no indication that the man had any plans to launch an attack. In addition to the two-year prison sentence, he will have to pay a 30,000 euros (roughly $32,000) fine.
Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it; moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork.
—Part I, Chapter I, Nineteen Eighty-Four
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
and began sporting a long beard with harem pants.
Harem pants are out. O-U-T.
Well, if he didn't want to blow things up, this will change his mind quick.
For two reasons:
1) no valid crime (in my opinion) was committed
2) it's a two year sentence, besides pissing off a bunch of people, what purpose does this serve?
You can't change a person's ideologies by imprisoning them, not without brainwashing them. This seems like the wrong way to address these problems. Imprisoning and fining people for their thoughts and beliefs is likely to cause more people to think this way, rather than deter it.
moox. for a new generation.
clickbait title... the man deserved that jail time, he was obviously converted. This is just not a matter of "visited this one website and suddenly he was arrested" like the title would make you believe.
If you see mosquito larvae infesting a pond, do you kill the larvae or do you wait until they grow into mosquitoes and bite you before swatting them?
If you see a smoldering ember in a tinder-dry forest, do you stamp it out before it destroys homes, or do you wait to see which way the wind blows?
If you see someone falling into mental illness, do you treat them early or do you wait until the illness has gripped them and who knows what happens?
It is a very interesting ethical question that this poses. If the guy's family noticed changes, if the guy admits he wasn't consuming any other media other than pro-jihadist propaganda, and if the guy showed outward signals of becoming fundamentalist, wouldn't you act now rather than wait for him to become a major problem?
The smart way of dealing with this is to monitor the suspect.
Now he will have a good time completing his training in prison, where he will be in touch with real specialists
Nerd jailed for reading about person who read about someone who heard that someone read about ISIS.
Europe - Land of the sheep, home of the slave. Europeans truly despise the living God.
Leaving aside that he hasn't actually done something, what does putting him in prison for 2 years do except make him even more pissed off and likely to commit some sort of act of terror?
Once again, a foreign country follows my ideas and prospers. Now sell me the Arc de Triumphe, Norte Dame, and the Eiffle Tower so I can make them part of the new Trump Paris.
Well, it's a good thing he was stopped before he could release a low-grade hip-hop album...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Sometimes it take a day or three. It doesn't mean I agree with the website, it means I'm intrigued by something, or "aw hell no" by something.
So now curiosity can put me in jail? Really?
because isis is the spearhead of usa and israel on the east, the guy was almost ready to support these terrorist states
Once you understand the Islamic Doctrine of Abrogation (later verses replace earlier verses of the Koran) then you will see that Koran 9:29 is the only verse that really matters to non-Muslims. It commands that Islam take over the World until everyone has submitted to the rule of Sharia and the supremacy of Islam.
Islam is NOT founded on what we would call 'ethical good' but instead is based on the supremacy of Allah over all others. So mass rape and murder is considered 'good' because Allah clearly commands Muslims do these to the hated kaffir unbelievers (non-Muslims).
Thus, Islam cannot be refuted on the basis of natural morality. Pointing out Mohammed was evil (from the Western point of view) will not change the mind of many Muslims. The only way to beat Islam is to point out the truth, that Islam is FICTION. The archeological record shows Islam's claims about its origins CANNOT BE TRUE. Thus, Islam is FICTION and is FALSE. To understand the archeology see:
"An Historical Critique of Islam's Beginnings"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Muslims don't report other jihadi Muslims because war against the despised infidel non-Muslims is the 'will of Allah'. Killing non-Muslims is not considered evil but is 'good' by definition, since Allah wills it.
Islam will only be defeated when the World understands that it is FICTION and is FALSE. Mohammed is a mostly mythological figure invented to advance Arab Imperialism, and Islam was invented by Arab Imperialists to counterbalance the Christianity of the Byzantines and Zoroastrianism of the Persians. Islam is false, so people should stop arguing about what Mohammed said or didn't say - the fact is that Mohammed is mostly FICTION (the earliest depictions of a person with the title Mohammed shows a Christian cross, which Arab Imperialists would later reject utterly and invent a Mohammed to suits their lusts for women, wealth and conquest).
The English article is vague on his nationality. If he has citizenship elsewhere he should be fully identified, sent back and not allowed to return (with serious consequences if he does and gets caught). If his only citizenship is French well, he should have any passport revoked, given a parachute and dropped over Syria.
i think your talking about australia.
Do mosquito larvae cause mosquitoes?
Does reading about something cause the something your reading about?
What has happened here France has been data mining internet connections and decided the latter, and judges in panic mode JUST IN CASE have locked him away for reading dangerous stuff.
Wallpapers, fan products, memorabilia. Perhaps ISIS should try funding their campaign by selling trinkets, posters and souvenirs from street corners instead of blowing up and shooting their potential customers.
Were precogs involved?
Common law does not apply at all in France, they have civil (and more specifically: Napoleonic) law.
Visit a terrorist website over and over again, with no proof other than to say you are "curious"? go to jail!
here:
Islam is NOT founded on what we would call 'ethical good' but instead is based on the supremacy of Allah over all others. So mass rape and murder is considered 'good' because Allah clearly commands Muslims do these to the hated kaffir unbelievers (non-Muslims).
I also didn't follow where you were going with bringing up Abrogation, except maybe you were trying to make a point that there aren't any verses that contradict the command to spread Islam and subjugate the world to the rule of Sharia.
For the record, Christianity has an equally terrifying concept: That God punishes the faithful for the sins of the unfaithful, thus making the sinner an existent threat to the Christian (and indeed, him/herself and all mankind). We see this in Sodom & Gomorrah and the Floods.
That said there's considerable evidence that the stories in the Bible and Koran are meant as parables and not to be taken literally. That they're guidance from on high rather than commandments.
Basically, there are good arguments for purging all religion from mankind, and good arguments for keeping it. So far yours falls into neither category. It's just inflammatory. Please try harder next time.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
nt
I absolutely applaud the French authorities for calling it like it is on this one. Debating whether how they know this is right or wrong is besides the point here. Yes, I realize I just allowed the end to justify the means but see my 1st sentence.
A few years ago I went through TSA with my laptop. Naturally they wanted to search it. No problem. I thought.
I'd forgotten that at the time, my documents directory auto synced whenever I logged into my network at home. At the time, I was writing a fiction story.
All kinds of excitement occurred.
Now I keep all my stuff in the cloud outside of "five eyes" treaty partners and any time I think I might have an "interaction" with LEO, I mercine wipe my drive and install fresh. I still get harassed because obviously I "must be a terrorist" because I don't use windows. Solution; Small windows boot partition by default and some random porn files. (If they don't find anything, they just keep looking. So I give them a little something obvious to keep them off my back.)
When did we start being more afraid of our own government than of terrorist? The world has gone crazy except for you and me, I'm slowly slipping away and I was never too sure about you.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
> That said there's considerable evidence that the stories in the Bible and Koran are meant as parables and not to be taken literally.
Of course, starting with the fact that the text explicitly says so. Jesus said very few would understand his stories, though many more would THINK they understood. Some old testament is an interleaving of actual oral history as understood at the time with parable-like lessons of wisdom. You mention Sodom, which was destroyed by a "rain of fire". Archeological evidence indicates that some kind of extreme heat, much beyond the heat house fires, did destroy some settlements in the area - perhaps a meteor. (Google desert glass).
> That God punishes the faithful for the sins of the unfaithful, ... We see this in Sodom & Gomorrah and the Floods.
The biblical story of Sodom & Gomorrah has God saying he would NOT destroy the city if any good people were there, then the angels tell the one good man, Lot, to flee from the city and don't look back. His wife turned back and was "turned into a pillar of salt" (covered by ash?)
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/...
Does he get to pursue the issue in the ECHR? Because it's hard to imagine any public international law body allowing this to stand.
I wonder if this story is true.
Fake news?
Someone who reads French will need to find the official court documents and judgement.
I see this as similar to laws against holocaust denial, which incidentally is also illegal in France. This ISIS fan was actively demonstrating sympathy for ISIS terrorism (his defense is laughable, the password and wallpaper and behavior changes aren't mere curiosity), just as holocaust deniers are typically taken to be demonstrating sympathy for Nazi terrorism. I don't approve of either law as restrictions on freedom of thought and speech, but I don't think this is a slippery slope, because it's nothing fundamentally new.
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Oh, I do understand. I understand you're as full of it as someone saying Christians believe in rape victims being forced to marry their rapists, "because the Bible says so".
What happened to all that grandstanding about free speech being sacrosanct? Don't tell me it's just about the right to be racist assholes towards Muslims?**
* AE's, don't bother whining about the Nice attack etc when for every drop of innocent western blood spilled, entire swimming pools are filled due to western-backed violence.
* Yes, islmaophobia is racism, because when you're bitching about Muslims, you're using that as a stand in for "Arab" and "black".
The fact that it doesn't have a picture or name of the "French man" makes me suspect that this "french man" is in fact a Muslim and hates liberty, fraternity, and equality and everything that France stands for. This being the case getting another one off the streets is a good thing.
If he wasn't radicalized before, when he gets out of prison, he surely will be. Mission accomplished, idiots.
Plus laws pertaining to State Security are a bit sharper there and less encumbered by checks and balances. http://www.theverge.com/2016/2...
From the desciription It sounds as if the French authorities were careful to collect evidence that might allow one of their judges to decide whether the suspect was merely curious or a sympathiser (and hence in breach of their anti-terrorism laws). It looks as if that evidence led their judge to decide that man was a sympathiser. Hence the sentence.
Internet is a main source of radicalisation. Given that dragnet internet surveillance will show such browsing, it offers an opportunity to go after people engaging in it.
Not exactly what would have been done in the US as it is today, but not unreasonable either. Given mr. Trump and his right-wing radical cabinet appointees I guess this will become policy in the US too. Perhaps with appropriate window-dressing and executive orders.
Those who are counting on the House to block that, think again. Those who are counting on the Supreme Court to put a stop to that ... consider that mr. Trump has one vacancy to fill there already. And there may be more before his 4 years are done. Personally I don't think any judge who doesn't see eye to eye with radical right wing policies will stand a chance.
Therefore the way towards implementing precisely this measure in the US seems clear. Ironically the advent of mr. Trump seems to mean that the US will become a bit more European in this respect.
I believe that people are going to get what they voted for. Good and hard.
and now they are bleating about how THEY 'don't feel safe'... in the country they destroyed by opening its borders! Such chutzpah...
If the amount of evidence claimed to have been found is actually true, it really doesn't look like someone merely just checking out what ISIS was about...
There's a side of me that definitely thinks that hate-mongers such as what he appeared to be ought to be given a choice. Instead of a jail sentence, offer him the possibility to surrender his passport, and be given a one-way ticket to an islamic country of his choice, where he can become a 'productive citizen' (whatever that means, in this context) once they agree to take him.
It's one thing to tolerate people with very different points of view (even if very offensive) who don't actively want to subjugate everyone around them, and another to keep playing nice with individuals who have been brainwashed and slowly turning into the sort of person that cannot be negotiated with. Time and time again, there are examples of such persons taking matters into their own hands in order to serve whatever faith they believe so strongly. They consciously exploit any loopholes they can find in the democratic systems of Western countries to their advantage, for the sole purpose of the advancement of their cancerous beliefs... I dunno. There must be times we need to draw the line and have the balls to say "Enough is enough". Maybe that's why Trump's message resonated so much with many people. He didn't care about being politically correct and said out loud what so many were thinking.
Given how many people were the victims of terror attacks in France in the last two years, it's a bit difficult for me to feel empathy for this person (if what they claim about him turns out to be true)
What if they were child-porn websites ?
And the excuse was still "I wanted to tell the difference between real fuck all and the total fuckups, now I understand,"
It's the only way to unite people who don't wish to be united. It's how that great beacon of multiculturalism Singapore does it too.
The natives won't accept a Nice every couple of months.
So either the security services prevent it from happening by any means possible, or the natives will do so through ethnic cleansing.
Hard to breathe.... Might die....
Mass surveillance is already stopping plots left and right
According to the people who run the program and whose budgets depend on it. I personally wouldn't trust them for a second -- after all, their end goal is to overturn the principal of innocent before proven guilty. Mass surveillance is merely a glorified form of "prove your innocence".
If I had a harem, pants would be the furthest thing from my mind. Were I to design pants to be worn in a harem, they would be crotchless.
Singapore is just China without the smog.
Why is everybody siding with the guy? No crime was committed, yet his PC password was referencing an attack with "haha" and his wallpaper was the fucking flag? He was either going to eventually commit a crime, or he was just an absolute fucking idiot. In either case, prison is the safest place to keep him.
Personally, if there is this kind of evidence, I think intent should be good enough to put them away, as it is with other heinous crimes. People that defend radical Islam are clearly ignorant of its content, and its differences from more secular beliefs (they are two VERY different things). Protecting it is basically protecting the Spanish Inquisition, and people love to use that as an example of tyrrany vanquished and evolution in the Christian strata. My advice: educate yourself. No, not all people of Muslim descent are fundamentalists, but those that are should not be in mainstream society unless they can behave themselves, no different than any other severely emotionally and mentally disturbed individual.
If you see someone falling into mental illness, do you treat them early or do you wait until the illness has gripped them and who knows what happens?
Well, since all religions ARE a mental illness, something like 90% of the world needs to be treated. Why is it that talking to imaginary friend "Bob" is bad, but doing it with "God" is ok?
Just look at all the evil/brainwashing in the world related to religions. They all need to be stopped! Now! Evil, evil.
Ok, so I will admit that my god exists and is all powerful. HE does amazing things for all to see, test, prove. HE does not hide. HE is gravity and wipes the floor with all other gods.
Why doesn't the summary contain a link to the website he visited? (Serious question.)
If the judge gets a stiffy from pictures of your kids, HE should be the one going to jail. I can remember my mom showing off some of my childhood pictures to an early GF that contained embarrassing shots of me bathing at a very young age. Maybe I can hold her hostage for some home made cookies for Christmas.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
It may be hard to see, but there's a subtle difference between being inconvenienced during travel and being imprisoned for two years.
Nor, I imagine, has he been to most of France.
Oh, I do understand. I understand you're as full of it as someone saying Christians believe in rape victims being forced to marry their rapists, "because the Bible says so".
Please. The difference is that hundreds of millions of mainstream Muslims (very possibly even the majority) believe in the doctrine of abrogation because without it, they would be left with even more contradictions in their perfect book.
It's also worth noting that Christians never had such a tool beyond the occasional weak and wishywashy appeal to the fact that Jesus' covenant superseded what the Jews had with Moses... but that left open the question of whether anything from the old testament was still valid (including the ten commandments and the extra-strong condemnation of things like homosexuality), so in the end each contradiction had to be individually tackled and the arbitrariness of this endeavor is one of the things that allowed so much innovation (something that is considered a major sin in Islam) and heterodoxy in interpretation with few rational or literary tools available to those who wanted to intellectually argue theirs was the one true way.
But that wasn't even your point, was it? You were comparing Muslims who believe in abrogation of verses to Christians who believe that rape victims should be forced to marry their rapists, i.e. comparing the beliefs of a tiny sliver of a minority (discounting perhaps one or two African hellholes) compared to a mainstream belief held by hundreds of millions of Muslims.
For your own sanity and for the cause I assume you champion, I recommend you be a little less lazy or hyperbolic in your comparisons. The world already has quite enough people saying that Christianity and Islam are, at this exact point in time, basically the same and certainly equally dangerous, and this laughable attitude has already done untold damage to almost every single western democracy, particularly in the form of the right-wing reaction against it.
Given you deflect from the argument does that mean you agree with Koran 9:29 ? Christianity is fiction and is false. Islam is fiction and is false. But Christianity separates Church and State so it does not hurt unbelievers. Islam says that the separation of Church and State is a blasphemy punishable by death, and asserts that Sharia applies to believes and unbelievers equally. Thus both are false, but Islam is MUCH more dangerous (and stupid) than Christianity. Islam turns otherwise good people into deeply evil people - this makes Islam very, very evil. It is a great thing that Islam is dying as people access information that shows it is fiction and is false.
Your deflection, I'm addressing the fallacy of "X believes Y because their book says so" head on. The only difference between saying Muslims believe (insert fearmongering of choice here) "because the Koran says so" and saying Christians believe in mother-son fucking "because the Old Testament says so" is the chosen passage of a millennia old rag.
So you are saying Muslims don't be the Koran? that's stupid and illogical. To be a Muslim one must believe in the Koran. Anyone who claims to be a Muslim and doesn't believe the Koran is not a Muslim, they are a takfiri and the proscribed punishment is death. That is why the Islamic State follows Mohammed's example and slaughters massive numbers of other Muslims.
You can get grumpy at me all you want, but the reality is you are wrong. You are projecting your Western memes onto an Eastern religion and their doctrines don't work that way. Read Koran 9:29 until you grok what Islam wants from its adherents and ponder the implications. While you are there also look at "hadith Sahih Muslim 6985" which the Muslim Brotherhood considered so important they wrote it into their "Hamas" Charter.
Your anger at Christianity should never translate into a defense for Islam. As stupid as Christianity is, Islam is much, much worse theologically (being a heresy of Christianity) and VERY much worse politically (since Islam is a totalitarian political system that asserts that Sharia must be applied to Muslims AND non-Muslims allike).
In short, stop defending Islam because you don't understand anything about it nor how much worse than Christianity is actually is. Your arguments are false and rather vapid. So just stop, please. If you want to defend Enlightenment Civilization, and I suspect you do, then Islam should be completely abhorrent to you - it has the same goals as National Socialism (kill the Jews, oppress unbelievers, conquer the Wolrd, absolute obediance to the leader, do not question the system, etc) but does not see murder as evil, but as best mode of worship and the only guaranteed route to paradise.
I would ask if you are for real, but then I've seen people go on blathering that atheism is a religion, no matter how many variations of "atheism is a religion like 'off' is a tv channel" are bounced off their thick heads.
So you are saying Christians don't be[sic] the Bible? That's stupid and illogical. They MUST believe in the Bible, otherwise they wouldn't be Christians, which means they MUST believe in mother-son fucking!!!
It's obvious that you know shit about Muslims and Islam in general. You're just mindlessly regurgitating islamophobic crap that you've read somewhere else in order to make them the Other.
I guessed you are a Muslim. That accounts for your disgusting anti-Semitism before. After your anti-Semitism you then want to play the Muslim Brotherhood's phony "islamophobia" card because you can't make an actual argument.
Islam is FICTION and is FALSE. You have been lied to. All I'm doing is telling you the truth. You can choose to live a lie if you want, despite being shown the truth. That proves you do not seek the truth. Few Muslims do, and the ones that do leave Islam forever. Because of you maniacs they do it quietly, since you want to kill 'apostates' for accepting the truth rather than the backward, plagiarized Iron Age superstition invented by Caliph Abd al-Malik to control you.
The satellite photos in this video do not lie, the story of Islam's beginnings is just that, a story.
"An Historical Critique of Islam's Beginnings"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
It's obvious that you know shit about Muslims and Islam in general. You're just mindlessly regurgitating islamophobic crap that you've read somewhere else in order to make them the Other.
Actually, it is bad-tempered, reality-denying, anti-Semitic, non-integrating, Sharia-supremacists like you that make yourself "The Other". It is you who has hung yourself in the court of public opinion in Slashdot. You did it all to yourself. All I did is point out the truth, that Islam is FICTION and is FALSE, and stood back while you went berserk, made racist statements, accused me and every other atheist as being "thick", insulted Christians and played the OIC/Muslim Brotherhood scam of "islamophobia" with no basis in fact.
You did this all to yourself in front of millions of Slashdot readers, despite me giving you the opportunity of civil discourse. But you have shown exactly how crazy Muslims get when their mythological founder 'Mohammed' (the guy who raped Abu Bakr's 6 year old daughter Aisha, as well as raping his adopted son's wife because he liked incest - read the hadith) is exposed using your own scriptures that you don't think the rest of us know nor understand. Because Islam is fiction your sky ghost Allah and the mythological Al Mahdi cannot save you from the ill will you are generating around the World. Islam is dying, you just don't know it yet because most Muslims who learn the truth won't tell you they have accepted the truth, that Islam is a fiction and mythology. Because Islam is fiction it means the things you doing are not 'good' because the mythology tells you to do them, but are in fact, deeply evil.
Accept the truth, Islam is FICTION and is thus FALSE. Or descend into madness of the illusion. I don't care either way - my job is done when I present the archeological evidence to you. Whether you continue to live the lie and be a bad person who chooses the evil cult over reality as a result is up to you.
You want to help radicalize someone? This is how you do it.
Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
Wow, the shell finally fell off the nut. Nobody's said anything about Jews in this thread, slick - you drunk? Not just drunk, but black-out drunk?
Annnnnd we're right back to Christians - and now I'm guess we can include Jews - being heartfelt believers in mother-son fucking, because Genesis says that's what Eve did. And hey, about all that genocide committed by the ancient Hebrews, eh? How about all those towns and cities murdered to the last man, woman and child to pave the way for "gods chosen people"?
Hypocritical religious fanatic, heal thyself.
I'm atheist you fool. And looking through your post history it is clear you worship with the fervor of the zealot at the altar of the Cult of Collectivism. I mean, you are such a True Believer you think the solution to the tens of thousands of failed laws and Trillions of failed Government spending is more laws and more spending. Yeah, just one more law and then you'll get your collectivist utopia. You actually think the elites who run the show actually care a damn about you - ROFL ! You want to turn North America into North Korea, which is obvious from your posts on Venezuela to defend yet another failed socialist experiment which turned the most oil rich country on the planet into one where the citizens are starving and eating their pets to survive. And despite your inability to grok that the greatest mass murders in recent history where all socialist countries (where State power is so big that individuals have no defense against it - which is the inevitable result of the involuntary socialist concentration of power) you think that you should be in charge of you hellhole utopia. You are dangerous - and a Muslim Brotherhood sympathizer to boot. You don't understand that the Muslim Brotherhood and the National Socialists were allies, because they shared the same goals - conquest of the World, absolute obedience to the State and its leader, killing anyone who doesn't follow like a slave, and extermination of all Jews everywhere. This is the system you are defending. That makes you the bad guy in the history books - just like all collectivist control freaks before you.