Slashdot Mirror
Are We Seeing Propaganda About Russian Propaganda? (rollingstone.com)
MyFirstNameIsPaul was one of several readers who spotted this disturbing instance of fake news about fake news. An anonymous reader writes:
Last week the Washington Post described "independent researchers" who'd identified "more than 200 websites as routine peddlers of Russian propaganda" that they estimated were viewed more than 200 million times on Facebook. But the researchers insisted on remaining anonymous "to avoid being targeted by Russia's legions of skilled hackers," and when criticized on Twitter, responded "Awww, wook at all the angwy Putinists, trying to change the subject -- they're so vewwy angwy!!"
The group "seems to have been in existence for just a few months," writes Rolling Stone's Matt Taibbi, calling the Post's article an "astonishingly lazy report". (Chris Hedges, who once worked on a Pulitzer Prize-winning team at the New York Times, even found his site Truthdig on the group's dubious list of over 200 "sites that reliably echo Russian propaganda," along with other long-standing sites like Zero Hedge, Naked Capitalism, and the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity.) "By overplaying the influence of Russia's disinformation campaign, the report also plays directly into the hands of the Russian propagandists that it hopes to combat," complains Adrian Chen, who in 2015 documented real Russian propaganda efforts which he traced to "a building in St. Petersburg where hundreds of young Russians worked to churn out propaganda."
The Post's article was picked up by other major news outlets (including USA Today), and included an ominous warning that "The sophistication of the Russian tactics may complicate efforts by Facebook and Google to crack down on 'fake news'."
The group "seems to have been in existence for just a few months," writes Rolling Stone's Matt Taibbi, calling the Post's article an "astonishingly lazy report". (Chris Hedges, who once worked on a Pulitzer Prize-winning team at the New York Times, even found his site Truthdig on the group's dubious list of over 200 "sites that reliably echo Russian propaganda," along with other long-standing sites like Zero Hedge, Naked Capitalism, and the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity.) "By overplaying the influence of Russia's disinformation campaign, the report also plays directly into the hands of the Russian propagandists that it hopes to combat," complains Adrian Chen, who in 2015 documented real Russian propaganda efforts which he traced to "a building in St. Petersburg where hundreds of young Russians worked to churn out propaganda."
The Post's article was picked up by other major news outlets (including USA Today), and included an ominous warning that "The sophistication of the Russian tactics may complicate efforts by Facebook and Google to crack down on 'fake news'."
It's funny when the Right screams voter fraud, the left calls them all stupid because they have no evidence.
When he Left screams voter fraud from Russian hackers that they have zero evidence of, we have to waste millions of taxer payer money with lawsuits and recounts.
We are all in a cave, strapped to a stone. Everything is an illusion.
It would be really amazing if someone could show me a single piece of this propaganda they can trace to the Russians. Where is the evidence?
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Fortunately, they won't come for Slashdot. This is News for Nerds, we never discuss things like politics or rights or surveillance...
That's just another "Not our fault!" lie from Hillary! supporters.
"Look! a RUSSIAN squirrel!!!!"
Hillary! lost 2008's Democrat nomination to an upstart from nowhere despite the process being rigged for her.
Hillary! damn near lost the 2016 Democrat nomination to someone who wasn't even a Democrat despite the process being rigged for her.
Hillary! lost the 2016 Presidential election despite the media doing its damndest to help her.
Hillary! might have had a chance had if she weren't an unlikable corrupt harpy and if she had some accomplishment to her name other than marrying Bill.
Wait.... how do we know whether or not this /. post is propaganda about propaganda about propaganda?
This recursion stuff gets confusing sometimes.
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
Propaganda, insider information, hate facts. Who cares. More power to the Russians if they can disrupt a bunch of corrupt people from getting their way (DNC). I'd love for them to start poking at the Republicans next.
Sun light sanitizes all things. Keep dragging the truth from all the dark holes it is hiding in.
The secret group PropOrNot also listed as "allies" many journalists and publications that have never heard of the group before the article. as is evidenced by their twitter responses.
When this came to light, PropOrNot edited their web page to list them only as "related projects."
To translate what really happened here is:
The Washington Post was duped by a fake article about fake news, and then other publicans were duped by the Washington Post's article about the fake article about fake news.
Journalism is now completely dead, or at least the kind the mainstream media used to produce. Its all now just lazy he-said she-said bullshit where the only filter is the bias of the Journalists and Publications.
Investigative journalism is now only done by independent folk with hidden cameras, and released on youtube. Thats what exposed Clinton's campaign tactics and voter fraud methods, its what exposed and subsequently destroyed ACORN, and so on.
"His name was James Damore."
...could we be seeing propaganda about propaganda about propaganda?
This story presents facts about Russia's troll factory in St. Petersburg, just as I have done in numerous previous postings and got hammered by the Russian trolls. Go ahead, check my most recent postings to see how the trolls mindlessly mod me down for reporting facts about this troll factory, about the continuing shipments of cargo 200 from Ukraine (i.e. dead Russian soldiers), the terrorists in Ukraine who openly admit Russian soldiers are fighting there and supplying them with arms and munitions, or the Russian soldiers who state they have been sent to Ukraine and have fought there, and finally, the law which Putin signed which bars Russian mothers from talking about their sons who have died while fighting in Ukraine or even talking with other mothers about these deaths. Or course the graves of these dead Russian soldiers say otherwise, as do reports from eyewitnesses and families.
This story need to be modded down in like fashion. Wouldn't want the Russian trolls to have to see the facts of their dear leader's propaganda industry.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
I admit I don't keep up with this stuff. I thought the North Koreans were the bad guys I was supposed to be terrified of. Now it's the Russians? The vodka people? Damn, I only have so much time to be afraid. Make up your minds.
The "fake news" narrative is getting old. She didn't lose because of "fake news", she lost because people don't like her and because poor folks don't see Democrats in power and think "my problems will be solved" any more.
No one is going to vote any different based on telling stories about Russian influence, even if they're true stories. And you won't be able to censor the Internet effectively. If you try to, it will backfire on you.
If you want the next Democrat candidate to win, here's a suggestion for Democrats: help people. Don't just pick fights. Don't just point and jeer. Actually do something to genuinely help. Do it with a motivation to help rather than to get even with people you hate and maybe help someone in the process. Help Americans to get votes from Americans. Help a broad, inclusive population of people if you want votes from a broad population of people.
If you don't want Democrats to win, then just keep fighting. Keep calling everyone a racist or some other name. Cater exclusively to SJW crybullys who want to scream about transgenger microaggressions and cultural appropriation. Keep doing nothing for regular people. And keep telling yourself you lost because of "fake news".
"They're looking at someone else's fake news instead of our fake news! It's not fair!"
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
It was never one thing. The GOP had 8 years to craft a strategy against HRC. They knew she would be running after Obama and keeping the negative spot light on her was second only to discrediting the Obama administration. Clinton was no "shittier" than any other politician, so the only way for the GOP to win was to indict politicians as a whole. This lead to Trumps win and even thought it was not the way they wanted it, they were more than willing to jump on the bandwagon.
... always blaming Russia.
"Honey, I took the garbage out like you said, but the fucking Russians put it back!"
We can't comfortably blame China, because we need them.
Anyone will buy into the narrative that "Russia did it."
We knew it was bullshit when the US said, "It's Russia, but we don't know if it's state actors or an individual or individuals."
Any of us can "be" Russia at any time.
--
In any case, the elephant in the room is, "Why can't the US protect the data it owns?"
This Russia narrative directs criticism away from the real problem.
And ...
The DNC leak was an inside job.
They only got EMAIL!
Anyone who could have gotten to the other stuff: donor lists, employee personal data, SSN, ground strategy, candid political assessments, etc., would have done so.
Russians my ass.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Three and a half years ago the US government, under the Obama administration, let the ban on propagandizing US citizens expire - and immediately began writing and spreading "fake news".
From an FP article dated July 14, 2013:
So the only thing new here is US citizens noticed one of the government's renewed, official, domestic propaganda operations.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
It's funny when the Right screams voter fraud, the left calls them all stupid because they have no evidence.
When he Left screams voter fraud from Russian hackers that they have zero evidence of, we have to waste millions of taxer payer money with lawsuits and recounts.
There is a difference between voter fraud and election fraud. Voter fraud is when an individual is able to cast a vote they are not supposed to. So far there has only been 4 cases of actual voter fraud this election. Election fraud is on a massive scale where hundreds or thousands of votes are changed or suppressed. It is easier to change the outcome of an election with a rigged election. Republicans falsely claim that voter fraud is a massive problem, so when they control state legislatures, they gerrymander districts and pass onerous voter ID laws that make it difficult or impossible for people who don't generally vote Republican (usually people of color) to vote (they don't need Russian hackers). This is a form of election fraud (but legal). Other forms of election fraud are tampered with ballot boxes like that has been reported in the Wisconsin recount. Democrats claim election fraud. They are not the same or equivalent. Election fraud can be harder to prove or do much about.
We need a balloting system that is auditable. A recount isn't an audit. An audit checks to make sure the system is working as it is supposed to and that votes are counted and reported accurately. This usually means some sort of paper trail. You can still use electronic voting machines as long as it prints a record that can be viewed.
As a side note, I favor an instant-runoff balloting system so that voter preferences are recorded, so that a candidate in a multi candidate election, a candidate doesn't win with a plurality of votes (Candidate A gets 39%, Candidate B gets 37%, Candidate C gets 24%. Candidate A wins but 61% didn't vote for him).
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Unfortunately, it looks like extremism has become more popular.
Not from where I'm sitting. From everything Trump has said and done after the election, he's actually been quite reasonable - it's Clinton supporters that have gone insane, and during the election were pulling every dirty trick possible to win. Reasonableness triumphed over extremism for once, I'm hoping it's the start of a trend.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"Very clever," said the old lady. "But it's fake news, all the way down." AKA: Postmodernism eating itself.
I comment occasionally so that I can mod others -1 overrated or -1 offtopic.
Maybe I'm dense, but isn't it Congress' job to renew laws that have expiry dates? I skimmed the article but it didn't seem to clarify what I'm confused about. Is it the case that the R team did their right honorable duty as true statesmen to renew that law and Obama failed to sign it? The R team did have a majority in at least one branch of Congress in 2013, didn't they? My memory is hazy.
I mean, good grief. The president isn't a dictator. That's also why I'm not very worried at all about Trump! Trump! Trump! or even Darth Pence.
Also a good reason to have contempt for the D team when it had control of both houses of Congress 2008-2010. They could have passed something less corrupt than Obamneycare.
Everyone is accusing everyone of being fake news.
That may be the best possible outcome. Extreme skepticism is preferable to extreme gullibility.
The key to the success and of fake news and the main determinant of its content is not its sources but its consumers. What social media companies have discovered is that giving people whatever news they personally want to hear, regardless of its accuracy, can be a highly lucrative business. Just set up the algorithms, watch the news sources arise like magic, see the subscribers rack up clicks, and let the ad revenue roll in.
Speaking of amusement - I always find it amusing crushing wannabes & pseudo intellectuals like you via easily verified facts you cannot validly overcome.
You're still here? How tiresome. Go play in the street.
"So you mean The Right will support a woman's right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy?"
No, she can do what she wants to HER body, but killing another human being (her baby) is an entirely different matter. Incidentally: the right ALSO opposes an y father murdering his kids too.
"Or my right to consume mind-altering substances?"
Actually, most on the right would be fine with you using your drugs IN PRIVATE, as long as you do NOT endanger any other person AND you do not render yourself incapable of supporting yourself and then start demanding government checks (OTHER PEOPLE's HARD-EARNED MONEY, TAKEN BY FORCE)
"Does it protect the rights of individuals to worship their own god (or worship none at all)..."
Sure. The right in America DEMANDS this, and that generally also includes the idea that government cannot force you to support somebody ele's perversion of the thousands-of-years-old definition of "marriage"
"...by not placing icons of particular religions on federal buildings or force students to acknowledge a particular deity or by plastering worship of a particular deity on our currency?"
Sorry, but government acknowledgement of the religious beliefs of the majority and historical/cultural associations does not in any way force you to worship some particular entity nor does it prohibit you from having your own beliefs. You are free to worship, or not, and only an SJW snowflake thinks that having the national motto ion the currency is "oppression"
"Do they protect the right of two adults of the same sex to enter into a marriage contract with one another?"
Every right winger I know is perfectly fine with two gay people having a contractual relationship with each other - but it's another thing entirely to have government demand that people abandon their Judeo-Chrisitan religious beliefs and accept the re-definition of the word "marriage" and the inversion of 2K+ years of morality that converts an "abomination" into a "blessing". You pretend you do not want government pushing somebody else's religious beliefs down your throat, but then you assert exactly such an act as a good thing. If government has the right to force Christians or Jews to accept "gay marriage" then it has the fully-legitimate right to force you to be a Christian and even to force gays into gay-to-straight conversion therapy....it's just at that point a matter of who is in power and what they choose to force. That idea that people have the freedom to believe as they will either goes both ways or it does not - and in the Obama era we turned a corner and started asserting that it does not as government sued nuns to force them to fund abortions, which they are unlikely to ever do, and sued Christians to force them to accept the re-definition of marriage, which they cannot do.