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Microsoft Likely To See a Boost in Windows 10 Sales This New Year (fortune.com)

Because many businesses are wary of new software updates, let alone a new operating system, Microsoft could see a significant surge in Windows 10 install base and sales in the New Year. From a report on Fortune: Businesses have been slow to upgrade all of their corporate computers to the latest Windows OS in 2016, according to research by IT services and technology company Adaptiva. Adaptiva said Tuesday that based on its findings, it believes companies are going to be upgrading to the latest version in 2017. Adaptiva based its findings from a survey it conducted over the summer of 300 IT professionals at various businesses. The company said that 41% of the companies it surveyed have been avoiding the upgrade, and some "have gone so far as to actively resist the move by using software to prevent or disable Windows 10 installation." The survey didn't say why exactly companies were avoiding the upgrade, but the majority of respondents that did upgrade "rated the Windows 10 migration process to be somewhat to extremely challenging," the survey said. According to latest figures provided by Microsoft, Windows 10 is running on over 400 million devices.

104 of 172 comments (clear)

  1. Linux by 110010001000 · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is doubtful. 2017 will be the year of desktop Linux.

    1. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Windows 10 has Ubuntu Bash, so it's the same thing, really.

    2. Re:Linux by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Excellent point.

    3. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Windows can have the desktop and its fading relevance. Linux already has the phones, the supercomputers, the embedded devices, the tablets, the Internet... pretty much everything EXCEPT the desktop.

    4. Re:Linux by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

      Except bash is free on Linux.

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      Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    5. Re:Linux by bfpierce · · Score: 2

      I wish your help desk support staff good fortune in the phone call swarm to come.

    6. Re:Linux by ITRambo · · Score: 1

      Linus share of the desktop has doubled in the last ~year to 2.2%. That's a nice jump.

    7. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      At this point Microsoft would be better off focusing on porting their server software to GNU/Linux, say Ubuntu Linux Server, and maybe bringing the Microsoft Windows UI as a desktop environment to Ubuntu Linux non-server. At least this way Microsoft could be seen as truly embracing open source and free software without us worrying about the extend and extinguish phases.

    8. Re:Linux by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      2017 will be the year of desktop Linux.

      No sarcasm/irony intended in this post...

    9. Re:Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Learn to differentiate between Linus and Linux!

    10. Re:Linux by Jerry · · Score: 2

      "Linus share of the desktop has doubled in the last ~year to 2.2%. That's a nice jump."
      Nice backhanded insult masquerading as a compliment, but entirely nonfactual.
      Using a Windows centric website as a source for desktop market share is like asking a Met fan to rate the Dodgers.
      One can pick any website that tracks the OS of visitors. Here's one:
      http://distrowatch.com/awstats...
      According to the data on that webpage WIndows has a 39% market share and Linux has 47.2%

      Or this site, which shows Linux at 5.6%
      http://www.w3schools.com/brows...

      None of these take into account two factors: agent switching and multiple installs. I can set my browser to emulate IE running on Win7 (NT) even though I've been using Linux for 18 years.

      Microsoft uses it sales channel to indicate total sales, which it has manipulated by including units setting in warehouses as well, in order to inflate their sales. They also used that trick when they reported total WinPhone sales, which are still in the toilet. When I download a Linux ISO from a website I can and have installed that single ISO on several computers. Those computers previously ran Windows. The tally of Windows sales does not decrease when I replace Windows with Linux, and no one knows for sure how many Linux ISOs have been downloaded and how many devices those downloaded ISO files have been installed on. So, market share is meaningless.

      The "Year of Linux" was, for me, 1998. May 1st of that year was when I replaced Win95, an OS which I had to reinstall 5 times in the previous 4 months, with RH 5.0, which came with the book "Learn Linux in 24 Hours", by BIll Brush. My new Sony VAIO, which I thought was trash, ran faultlessly without a single crash until I replaced RH in September of that year with SuSE 5.3, because it featured KDE 1.0 Beta. I am now in my 7th year of running Kubuntu.

      If you count Linux running on smartphones then the Linux smartphone marketshare is 87.4% and the WInPhone share is 0.4%
      http://www.idc.com/prodserv/sm...

      Until the SCOTUS destroyed software patents with its "Alice" ruling Microsoft made more money ($5+Billion) extorting smartphone makers who used Android, using bogus DOS patents, than they made selling their own smartphone.

      --

      Running with Linux for over 20 years!

    11. Re:Linux by tepples · · Score: 1

      Windows can have the desktop and its fading relevance. Linux already has the phones, the supercomputers, the embedded devices, the tablets, the Internet

      What do people use to develop applications for the latter, or even to write articles for the latter?

    12. Re:Linux by unrtst · · Score: 1

      WHAT?!?! If MS ported their UI and server software to (Ubuntu) Linux, how the hell would that calm any fears of them extending and extinguishing? That would be the biggest extinguisher yet.

    13. Re:Linux by tepples · · Score: 1

      Phones don't come with slide-out keyboards anymore. If you meant a Bluetooth keyboard, how good are the IDEs for phones?

  2. Unsubstantiated conclusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why pay for it when you could use it for free, never activating and thus not seeing any ads?

    1. Re:Unsubstantiated conclusion by ITRambo · · Score: 2

      That makes no sense. Barebones Windows 10 installs with ads right out of the box, activated or not.

  3. Just add Linux by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Just add some UserMode Linux kernel, just to have the full GNU/Linux stack for extra geek points.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Just add Linux by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      an built-in SSH/SFTP client may cause no harm...

  4. The year after. by CptLoRes · · Score: 1

    And I predict a sharp decline in Windows 10 sales the year after, once businesses have gotten some experience in dealing with the Windows 10 system.

    1. Re:The year after. by NotInHere · · Score: 2

      Or once the lawyers find out about all the data that the OS sends to redmond, and what that means to company internal secrets...

    2. Re:The year after. by swb · · Score: 1

      I think that's fantasy. Lots of high-end enterprise kit has phone-home so deeply embedded into it you basically couldn't use the product without it. Compellent actually has a feature called "Phone Home" that sends telemetry to support and support can remotely console into the system.

      Everyone and their dog is scrutinizing Win10 telemetry and MS knows it. Any half-solid evidence they're grabbing proprietary data would be an instant multi-billion dollar class action suit.

    3. Re:The year after. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      It depends very much on context.

      For example, I've been involved with sales to the IT groups at certain banks, and they have strict checklists where anything connected to or running on their systems must meet 100% of the hundreds of conditions or it's game over. Nothing with any sort of telemetry built in would be getting anywhere near those systems.

      For Joe's Retail Business, if the systems involved aren't handling anything regulated/audited like credit card details, it might be a completely different story. I suspect a lot of businesses will also potentially be in violation of data protection/privacy laws or of commercial agreements like NDAs as a result of the telemetry, which is also somewhat worrying. However, in practice, those probably won't result in any substantial penalties unless either a major breach comes to light or Microsoft starts abusing its access to data it collects coincidentally, so as usual businesses will probably ignore potential leaks unless they think they'll get caught and suffer for having them.

      In any case, it's more relevant that during 2017 we'll probably be looking at some larger organisations that will be running the Enterprise or Education versions starting to migrate to Win10, and those don't have the same problems with things like telemetry and forced updates as the Home and Pro editions.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    4. Re:The year after. by swb · · Score: 1

      For example, I've been involved with sales to the IT groups at certain banks, and they have strict checklists where anything connected to or running on their systems must meet 100% of the hundreds of conditions or it's game over. Nothing with any sort of telemetry built in would be getting anywhere near those systems.

      I'd guess they'd get told telemetry was optional but would be necessary for certain support functions or turn some automated functions (like software updates) into manual, downtime-required functions.

      I've worked with a couple of banks before and it was always amazing how their procedures would turn a 30 minute maintenance task into 6 hours of downtime. We actually negotiated our way out of a project with a bank because they were so hard to work with and I think we even modified our estimating process for anything involving a bank to have double hour estimates for everything with special riders allowing us to quit if they proved too difficult. We just couldn't make money and work within their policies.

    5. Re:The year after. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      I'd guess they'd get told telemetry was optional but would be necessary for certain support functions/p>

      I'm fairly sure that if you'd told them that, all of the banks I'm thinking of would have required either the ability to permanently disable all such telemetry code before going into service or, in some cases, a custom build of any relevant software with all such telemetry code removed.

      or turn some automated functions (like software updates) into manual, downtime-required functions.

      No-one in the environments I was dealing with would have been installing any sort of automated updates anyway. We're talking about the kind of place where taking anything out of service, other than special emergency procedures in some cases, typically requires a sign-off process that could last for weeks. Usually that would include significant amounts of lab evaluation before being put into production for literally any hardware or software change. It was also normal to require sufficient assurances to satisfy them that for large-scale deployments, what was later delivered in volume would be absolutely identical to what they had evaluated under lab conditions.

      Obviously this is at the opposite end of the spectrum to "Just install it, I don't care". I'm just pointing out that in organisations with serious security or reliability concerns, this kind of thing does happen. I've encountered a similar abundance of caution in plenty of back office environments as well, say places like communications providers or the infrastructure used by big online retailers, but banks seemed like a good example here because they do also have large numbers of regular PCs accessible from front-office locations and running regular desktop OSes.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    6. Re:The year after. by unixisc · · Score: 1

      And I predict a sharp decline in Windows 10 sales the year after, once businesses have gotten some experience in dealing with the Windows 10 system.

      Uh, they'll see the boost b'cos last year, they had only been giving it away, whereas this year, they'd have 5 months of sales. Next year, they'll have all 12 months.

      What I more seriously wonder is - will anybody actually buy Windows 10 for anything where it's not already pre-installed?

  5. Lots of companies want Win10 by anthony_greer · · Score: 2

    There were large reservations around the frequent upgrade requirements of Current Branch for Business but those are getting worked out as the servicing model matures and the tools to support it, like SCCM, get more robust. That said, a lot of companies do want the new OS because there are a lot of speed improvments, as well as security improvements that include better support for strong (mil spec) encryption out of the box, better protection against malicious "rootkit" like software with tools like Secure Boot and better tech to protect credentials from pass the hash attacks. All this relies on native UEFI support, an area where Win10 is far and away above Win7.

    Make all the jokes you want about ads and such in the consumer builds (i dont like it either btw) but as a windows deployment specialist who is fielding regular head hunter calls when they find me on Linkedin, I can tell you Win10 enterprise is very desirable for many companies.

    1. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by Drethon · · Score: 1

      Yeah though defense contractors may not even be happy with just being able to turn off windows telemetry. I don't think they would want an OS that even has that code anywhere. They scan every program on our computer pretty much each time it is used to make sure it doesn't export data already.

    2. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by anthony_greer · · Score: 1

      The United States DoD is doing large rollouts of Win 10 to replace ageing systems. Put it this way, if it weren't secure, do you think DoD and The Dept of the Navy would be going with it?

    3. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by sinij · · Score: 2

      Yes they would, if they mistakenly believe they are the only ones with the keys to the telemetry backdoor.

    4. Re: Lots of companies want Win10 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The US probably doesn't care about US spyware reporting back to the US. Other countries will see it as espionage, though.

    5. Re: Lots of companies want Win10 by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      Only china and russia, as the allies of the USA are okay with being spied upon. And china and russia can just simply do a country level analogon of a hosts file edit to block the data from flowing, china already has a pretty good firewall in place.

    6. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      It is funny you guys think that someone can tell if any closed source OS is secure or not. You can't.

    7. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by Drethon · · Score: 1

      Contractors tend to care more than the DoD. No one is going to fire the DoD for having insecure systems, contractors can loose all of their government contracts, possibly putting them out of business.

    8. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Woah, I agree with you twice in one month. It must be something in the water. :)

      But you're spot-on: you cannot tell if a closed source OS is secure or not. In fact, the safe bet would be to assume that it's not secure.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    9. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by laurencetux · · Score: 1

      1 Do you think MS does not have a DOD version of all their software?

      2 all else failing if needed it would be simple for a "training accident" to sort out the server(s) collecting the data

    10. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by ilsaloving · · Score: 2

      Considering that they used Windows NT as the primary operating system for submarines armed with nuclear missiles, I would say that their ability at evaluating the technical qualifications of software leaves something to be desired.

    11. Re: Lots of companies want Win10 by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      allies of the USA are okay with being spied upon

      I'm not so sure about that...

    12. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      improvments, as well as security improvements that include better support for strong (mil spec) encryption out of the box, better protection against malicious "rootkit" like software with tools like Secure Boot and better tech to

      The word "encryption" does not mean "secure". It is a marketing term with no intrinsic value of any import.

      protect credentials from pass the hash attacks.

      Now that right there is one hell of a low bar.

      All this relies on native UEFI support, an area where Win10 is far and away above Win7.

      The most compelling feature for preventing "rootkits" is hyper-v virtualization of the desktop environment. There is narrow fleeting hope it will one day be tractable to make hypervisors secure. Yet the very concept of a rootkit is mostly irrelevant. Even if rootkits disappeared entirely it won't make a lick of difference as you can still do plenty of damage within the security context of the end user.

      Make all the jokes you want about ads and such in the consumer builds (i dont like it either btw) but as a windows deployment specialist who is fielding regular head hunter calls when they find me on Linkedin, I can tell you Win10 enterprise is very desirable for many companies.

      The joke is they are still using Kerberos and anyone who attempts password authentication is still subject to having their credentials compromised via offline attack.

    13. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      The United States DoD is doing large rollouts of Win 10 to replace ageing systems. Put it this way, if it weren't secure, do you think DoD and The Dept of the Navy would be going with it?

      Why not? Since when has security ever stopped them from going with previous versions of Windows?

    14. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      If you're big and important enough, your suppliers will pretty much always let you audit their source code under some sort of heavy NDA.

      --
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    15. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      In fact, the safe bet would be to assume that it's not secure.

      That's true of all software, open or closed. Any software that has the potential of being a security concern is either making use of outside libraries developed by someone else or depends on hardware that has firmware running on it that could also be potentially vulnerable.

    16. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by sinij · · Score: 1

      As heartbleed demonstrated to us, serious bugs and/or plausible denability backdoors are almost immediately discovered in the OS code.

      If there is a source code in the forest, but nobody reads it, does it make a sound?

    17. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If you're big and important enough, your suppliers will pretty much always let you audit their source code under some sort of heavy NDA.

      But they won't give you what you need to build your own OS from source, so even if you had the resources to audit the whole thing (and enough barf bags to control the hazmat, in the case of inspection of Windows code) it would be completely, utterly, and totally worthless.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      How do you quanitfy a "large rollout" of Windows 10? Don't forget DoD is still using 1970's era computers with 8-inch floppy disks and CRT screens.

    19. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by Altrag · · Score: 1

      Its funny you think you can tell any open source OS is secure either. It may be, in principle, possible to fully audit open source software in a way that closed source can't be but that doesn't mean anyone actually does it.

      Not to mention Windows source is available to anyone who meets certain criteria. Its definitely not as free (speech) as downloading the Linux source and I'm not sure its free (beer) either, but enough people have access to it that scrutiny is likely at least comparable to true open source OS' by this point.

      And of course, the bigger problem is that the OS is one of the least targeted pieces of software these days. Most attacks focus on a specific browser (including MS' own of course,) Flash bugs or other specific, commonly installed programs that exist above the OS layer.

      I dislike MS' practices for a lot of reasons, but security really isn't their biggest issue anymore. We're long past the Windows 98 days.

      Oh and as for Linux security.. remember that Android is based on Linux. So take that for what its worth. Again, most security flaws aren't in the core OS itself.. but with Android its sometimes hard to tell where "core" stops and "extra" software starts given that much of the "extra" software is required to run the various components of the device and are pretty core to usage even if they're not strictly kernel.

    20. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      The real world doesn't work like that. Having independently audited the source code from a big provider, there isn't much difference between having your own background-checked people building it and having actionable assurances from senior executives at your supplier that their technicians with the same relevant background checks and security clearances have built it properly. At some point, there is always a level of trust in the individuals involved and a level of oversight in how the product is made and deployed, regardless of whose name appears on the payslip of those people.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    21. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Why? Windows NT is/was pretty secure, and although it had successor OSs in Windows 2000 and XP, XP was where you had the desktop and workstation OSs merge, and where security was more compromised in order to be more plug and play friendly. Since submarines don't need the latest and greatest versions of IE or Facebook/Twitter, they are pretty good.

      Now, one could argue why are they not using SE-Linux, but that's another story.

    22. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      But they won't give you what you need to build your own OS from source, so even if you had the resources to audit the whole thing (and enough barf bags to control the hazmat, in the case of inspection of Windows code) it would be completely, utterly, and totally worthless.

      The real world doesn't work like that. Having independently audited the source code from a big provider, there isn't much difference between having your own background-checked people building it and having actionable assurances from senior executives at your supplier that their technicians with the same relevant background checks and security clearances have built it properly.

      Well, to be fair, it is good for one thing: getting insurance. Or, presumably, ISO certification, so I guess that's two things. What it's not good for is verifying security. Microsoft in particular has demonstrated time and again that they are not trustworthy. No amount of assurances from them would reassure me.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    23. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      That may be true, but we have not yet discovered how to make a system that is truly, 100%, absolutely guaranteed secure. That means real world security is all about risk management: what risks can we identify, and what can we do to mitigate them?

      Unless you are capable of building literally everything you need, from the most basic hardware components or the first line of code on up, at some point you will come to a decision between trusting some partner organisation and its staff to do what they say and looking elsewhere. And if you really need something big and you can't build it yourself, there are probably only so many potential partners to work with before you run out of options.

      So, maybe no amount of assurances from Microsoft would reassure you, but if you're in charge of a hypothetical multi-year, multi-billion dollar R&D programme and you need a desktop OS to run your software on, who would you allow to reassure you? Apple? The Debian security team? A few hundred specialist developers you just hired to build you something from scratch on top of FreeBSD?

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    24. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      maybe no amount of assurances from Microsoft would reassure you, but if you're in charge of a hypothetical multi-year, multi-billion dollar R&D programme and you need a desktop OS to run your software on, who would you allow to reassure you? Apple? The Debian security team? A few hundred specialist developers you just hired to build you something from scratch on top of FreeBSD?

      I'd do some sort of analysis to tell me which was best, and then I'd trust the best for which I could get the source.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    25. Re:Lots of companies want Win10 by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      Hardly. Windows NT was a bug-ridden mess.

      I suggest google searching for news about how their systems went down due to bugs and crashes.

  6. Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by sinij · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Win 10 is good OS that would be quickly adopted if/when MS decided to remove or make optional bolted-on telemetry malware. Such "feature" is simply not acceptable on a non-free product.

    1. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's not acceptable, full stop. Malware is malware.

    2. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      Did you forget that the first ~year of the install base were given the upgrade for free?

    3. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by Kamamura · · Score: 1

      People don't mind being spied on. Well, they say they do, but they really don't, otherwise they would do something to stop it.

      After 10 years, the expression "personal privacy" will be reduced to simple oxymoron, because how can a person have privacy, when all his personal data are public or for sale?

    4. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by chispito · · Score: 2

      Win 10 is good OS that would be quickly adopted if/when MS decided to remove or make optional bolted-on telemetry malware. Such "feature" is simply not acceptable on a non-free product.

      The percentage of the market that is aware of the telemetry and also bothered by it is negligible. The enterprise, which can disable it anyway, have resisted the upgrade because Windows 7 is adequate and the new features of 10, including administrative ones, aren't compelling enough to disrupt business to carry out the upgrade.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    5. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by Drethon · · Score: 1

      If you haven't bought a previous version of Windows, what exactly are you upgrading from?

    6. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      I downloaded Windows 10 Developer Preview, which later was converted to a full license. I got a free version of Windows 10 just for signing up with a microsoft.com account.

    7. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Telemetry is not malware, you Hindu-dot asshole!

      You're right. It's spyware.

    8. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      Malware is not the correct name as it assume malicious intent. So saying this means you are either ill informed about what Windows 10 actually does or are trying to please the /. crowd.

      Here's a detailed description of what it does from a concerned user: http://www.zdnet.com/article/w...
      here's MS's comprehensive documentation on it's configurability and what is collected: http://www.zdnet.com/article/w...

    9. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by Altrag · · Score: 1

      That's mostly irrelevant, or at least far far down the relevance scale.

      The biggest problem is compatibility issues. MS can promise backward compatibility all they want and for the most part they do pretty good, but it only takes one quirky device or shitty old piece of Win3.1-era software to prevent an entire organization from upgrading immediately.

      My own company uses one such piece of software. In fact I actually think it would work with Win10 with a little beating, but I've never put the time into fighting with it and as long as Win7 is still available to us, there's not much incentive to bother upgrading, even though I and almost all of our other employees use Win10 on our own systems.

      Then there's things like the forced updates which are well.. mostly just more annoying than truly problematic.. but it does mean going back to the old days of having to remember to hit save at least once a day because you can never be sure if Windows "helpfully" decided to reboot and destroy all of your unsaved work that night.

      Of course the telemetry and forced updates and stuff can be controlled in the more advanced versions of Windows. Enterprise users likely have full centralized control over both. For them in particular, the compatibility issue is generally the biggest one. Or just general fear of "something" going wrong unpredictably.

    10. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by unixisc · · Score: 1

      No, you didn't get the free version for signing up w/ Microsoft.com. You got it b'cos by downloading the Developer Preview, you agreed to be a beta tester, and so when Windows 10 went into RC, your work was recognized by you getting a full license

    11. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by unixisc · · Score: 1

      What exactly does his religion have to do w/ it? Hindu != (dot) Indian

    12. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Horseshit. No one outside of slashdot cares about telemetry. No one even know what it means including here on slashdot. It doesn't factor into windows 10 market share one bit.

    13. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by Insanity+Defense · · Score: 1

      Malware is not the correct name as it assume malicious intent.

      Given that Microsoft is a convicted abusive monopolist it is reasonable to assume malicious intent.

    14. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      Given that Microsoft is a convicted abusive monopolist it is reasonable to assume malicious intent.

      Assumption are for fact free topics. This topic is already well covered and the information passed is exactly what they claimed in their documentation. No malicious intent in the telemetry but people rather cater to the popular movement of hate for corporation rather than be constructive in their arguments. All I'm saying is that it's getting old and childish.

    15. Re:Win10 is good OS that has bolted-on malware by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      We know that lots of Windows 7 users didn't upgrade, and many who did were tricked into it. We don't know why they didn't want the upgrade. Doubtless some didn't want the telemetry, but there's a lot of other reasons for not wanting it.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  7. Ummm.. by LVSlushdat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unless you can get Windows 10 Enterprise, your business is Microsoft's business.. Even if you "castrate" Home and Pro, they still blab your business to Microsoft. And even if you *could* completely disable the spyware aspects of 10, how do you know that MS won't come along and turn it all back on via one of its updates? If you trust MS at all, you have your head in the sand.. The only way to win with Windows 10 is to NOT PLAY.... Let the MS apologists mod me down... It HAD to be said..

    --
    THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    1. Re:Ummm.. by ilsaloving · · Score: 5, Informative

      Wow, posting AC, being a flaming asshole, AND lying through your teeth. Hat trick!

      Unless you are using Windows 10 Enterprise, *you cannot disable telemetry*. Period. Not through the GUI. They even disabled the functionality in group policy.

      Oh, and if you ARE using Enterprise, and disable telemetry, then Windows update won't work properly either. So Microsoft has set things up so that you are flat out fucked no matter what you do.

    2. Re:Ummm.. by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      Also, apparently if you ARE using Enterprise, and disable telemetry, then windows updates stop working properly.

    3. Re:Ummm.. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Well, if you want Microsoft to automatically determine which update(s) are relevant for your system, obviously you're going to have to share some level of information about what you have installed already. If that counts as telemetry, then yes, of course the update tools won't be able to work properly if you disable it. I'm not sure how relevant this is for Enterprise users, though, since the odds of individual users managing the updates on their own systems in an environment running Enterprise must be pretty low to start with.

      However, that kind of telemetry is a far cry from functions like search boxes or Cortana automatically and silently sending details of what you're doing back to the mothership even though everything else involved is local to your system. This is the kind of privacy problem that most people objecting to the increased telemetry in recent Windows versions are concerned about.

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    4. Re:Ummm.. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      OK, that might be possible in some cases. But given the huge amount of potentially relevant information about compatibility and dependencies for an update to a system deployed as widely as Windows, that could be a mighty big database you're talking about downloading there.

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    5. Re:Ummm.. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Wtf are you doing running enterprise but not managing your own updates?

    6. Re:Ummm.. by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      Do you make it a habit of trolling my posts or something? You know darn well why someone would want to use Enterprise rather Pro or, heaven forbid, that abortion they call Home edition.

    7. Re:Ummm.. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Do you make it a habit of trolling my posts or something?

      That depends, do you make it a habit of posting silly scenarios that affect maybe a handful of users at the most?
      You may know people who want to use the enterprise edition, but I would challenge that given you can't get a copy without major volume licenses what your complaint amounts to complaints about a feature that is really only being demanded by pirates, because if you run volume licenses I repeat, why aren't you managing your own updates.

  8. They don't own it yet, so they'll buy it theory? by sqorbit · · Score: 1

    I don't get this. The entire bump in sales numbers seems to be based on a theory that business haven't upgraded yet, so they will next year. I don't own a Tesla vehicle, but I also will not buy one next year. How does that theory make sense at all?

    --
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  9. Duh.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    If they stop selling any versions of Windows7, "sales" of Windows10 can only go in one direction. But how many of those "sales" where actually sold retail licenses ("Hi, i actually, really, like to buy a Windows10 License for 300 Bucks!"), and how many where Free-as-in-Herpes upgrades or preinstalled on a new PC?

  10. The challenges are real, but not exceptionally so. by King_TJ · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Our company is one that initially resisted a Windows 10 migration. One of the big reasons is that we still rely on some older software that's incompatible with Windows 10 unless you keep a very expensive maintenance agreement current with the vendor, so you can get/use their latest update. In our case, we're trying to migrate off of that product completely in the next year or so, switching to one that's being customized for our needs at this time under a different maintenance agreement.

    But realistically? That's only a product used by a small sub-set of our employees who deal directly with Finance / Accounting issues.

    We found ourselves deploying Windows 10 to anyone else who needed a new PC, simply because we standardized on the Surface Pro 4 as the default hardware moving forward. (We have a lot of highly mobile workers involved in sales/marketing or creative design - and for those who aren't on Macs, they keep demanding a portable that's as light and thin as possible - with the drawing pen a big plus for a few situations. So the Surface Pro 4 just made the most sense to appease the majority of them while keeping things within our budget as long as we buy the model with the Core i5 CPU, 8GB of RAM and the 256GB SSD in it.)

    We did some "piecemeal" upgrades of other HP "Elitebook" laptops and Dell Latitudes out there as well. And the results? The move from Win 7 to 10 caused us a little initial pain, building a customized image that we felt was suitable for our users. (We wanted to make sure the "Metro" tiles on their START button only displayed the applications relevant to us, for example. No need for things like XBox or Candy Crush to show up prominently there! And we had a couple of situations where we had to make sure printer drivers on our Windows servers were upgraded, so the shared printers would still work properly for the Win 10 folks.) In a couple of cases, the Dell computers needed a BIOS upgrade before they'd complete the Win 10 upgrade properly, too. But overall? Things generally work fine. Most user issues/questions after the migration are centered around new features in Windows 10 they didn't understand how to use. One "gotcha" has been the "tablet mode" feature in 10. Some of the HP laptops have motion sensors in them that were probably intended only to detect a fall or shock, to power down spinning hard drives. But Win 10 uses it anyway to determine if the PC is "rotated", and tries to switch everything on screen into the tablet-friendly touch-screen mode. Needless to say, that's not good on a non touch-compatible laptop, AND it doesn't even sense the rotation motion reliably. It just winds up switch modes somewhat randomly when the PC is moved around.

  11. "Sales" = Win10 Licenses with 7 downgrade rights? by supremebob · · Score: 1

    Now that you can no longer buy Windows 7 licenses, I'm sure that Windows 10 license sales will go up.

    Actual Windows 10 installations will probably not go up nearly as much, though, because many of those licenses will be used to activate with Windows 7 with the downgrade rights of the license.

  12. More Microsoft propaganda? by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What's the matter with Slashdot? Why has it become a Microsoft's propaganda vehicle?

    1. Re:More Microsoft propaganda? by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 2

      It is lame that you think any post that does not lambaste Microsoft, is "propaganda".

      It would indeed. Now, remind me, where did I write such a thing? You are just inferring it, on the basis of your prejudices, and you are wrong.

      Indeed it is tempting to think that you prefer a steady diet of propaganda in favour of whatever computing environment you use.

      It would be. However, were you to use your brain, you would understand that that does not follow from what I wrote.

      Reflexive haters of Microsoft are boring and predictable.

      They may be. But not more so than people of all walks of life who allow their prejudices block their high brain functions. This aside, having some some at the expense of any big, obnoxious corporation is good sport.

  13. Windows 10 Is In Permanent Develmoment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With past versions of Windows a business could wait until it was stable and then upgrade, but with Windows 10 it is in constant development and is never stable. Once to twice per year Microsoft is doing an Windows 10 "update", which is actually a whole new operating system download and completely new installation. It's supposed to transfer everything across, but it actually fails miserably and destroys your computer. To make matters worse the updates can remove features or settings that you use.

    The constant state of flux that Windows 10 is in would create chaos in your companies IT infrastructure. Windows 10 is all about what Microsoft want with no thought at all given to the customer/user.

    1. Re: Windows 10 Is In Permanent Develmoment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So Fucking THIS. I'm going to trust an automatic unattended in-place upgrade to a whole new version of windows once or twice a year.

      Now with more and more H1B Visa programmers...

      All the other bad design and annoyances in 10 i can just tell users to "deal with it", but this shit is the meat of the problem and why I don't want to deploy until the very last minute when I absolutely must. This issue fucks us, not the users. Hopefully they'll smooth it out by Jan 2020, because 1511 and the "we didn't learn anything from 1511" AU updates didn't go so good for a lot of people and had a bunch doing clean installs to fix their issues. Fuck doing that in volumes.

    2. Re:Windows 10 Is In Permanent Develmoment by ImprovOmega · · Score: 1

      In all fairness, for the business folks out there they do make a LTS version of Windows 10 that is stable an supported for at least two years for businesses that are sensitive to that kind of thing. Of course you have to be on an EA agreement to get that, but if you're not big enough to warrant getting an EA agreement, then you're probably also not big enough to have a rigidly enforced change control process.

    3. Re:Windows 10 Is In Permanent Develmoment by jwegman · · Score: 1

      Exactly THIS! Proper, stable corporate IT requires stable, consistent software. The "constantly changing" model of Microsoft's new products makes them ill fit for professional use.

  14. That's very likely by Kamamura · · Score: 2

    ... provided Microsoft decides that all those who enjoy the "free upgrade" option will have to start paying regularly.

  15. Not convinced by Mr_Silver · · Score: 1

    Windows 7 goes end of extended life on January 14, 2020.

    If the XP to 7 migration is anything to go by then you're going to get an uplift of Windows 10 installations by corporates starting around 6 months before that date.

    Why migrate any earlier when Windows 7 works just fine and still gets security updates?

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  16. Re:The challenges are real, but not exceptionally by yoshi_mon · · Score: 2

    Ok, sounds like you addressed the usability, logistical, and other tech issues about Win10 at your place of business.

    However you did leave out the elephant in the room aka "Telemetry" and its related security issues. That kinda is a big thing and I guess you and those in charge just view it as a non-issue?

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  17. Re:The challenges are real, but not exceptionally by ilsaloving · · Score: 2

    Is it possible to at least configure things so that Microsoft doesn't vomit unwanted applications onto your system right on first install? I was livid when I installed a fresh clean copy and suddenly I had Candy Crush and a bunch of other useless apps that I didn't want, need, or ask for, just magically appear on my machine.

  18. Re:The challenges are real, but not exceptionally by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2

    In the serious editions of Win10 used by larger organisations, telemetry mostly is a non-issue. They don't have the same compulsory phone-home behaviour as the Pro/Home editions used by small businesses and home users do.

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  19. Re:"Sales" = Win10 Licenses with 7 downgrade right by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

    Yep, for now there are still options to buy new PCs and run older versions of Windows (legally), though only if you're willing to jump through a few hoops at this point. There will be more serious questions when that possibility is also removed, which isn't far away now in business planning terms.

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  20. Re:They don't own it yet, so they'll buy it theory by CCarrot · · Score: 1

    Because companies can only go so long before their machines have to be upgraded

    Yeah and that's 2020 for Windows 7 and 2023 for Windows 8. By then it's likely that Windows as a platform will be completely irrelevant and passe.

    This. My company is still on Windows 7, and have no plans to migrate any time soon (as in, over 24 months out). Actual security (well, known holes that are patched or monitored at least), control over upgrade application and compatibility with other enterprise software beats the Win10 roll-the-dice upgrade process and constant telemetry model.

    Sounds like someone in the Windows marketing bubble is getting reamed over unrealistic projected 2016 adoption rates for their malware-disguised-as-an-OS.

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  21. Plant? by Jerry · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The unsigned article in Fortune reads like a Microsoft PR plant.
    At least they took the MS PR Logo off before they republished it.

    --

    Running with Linux for over 20 years!

  22. No. It's not bolted on. It's baked in. by waspleg · · Score: 1

    You also aren't their customer because they don't even think you really have a choice. You are the product. Facebook style.

  23. Windows isn't free; it's cheaper than free by tepples · · Score: 1

    Bash is free software (as in speech) on all platforms. But GNU/Linux itself is not free as in beer for those who need to replace an incompatible laptop with a compatible one. Furthermore, laptops warranted by their manufacturer for use with GNU/Linux, such as System76 or Dell XPS, tend to have a higher sticker price than entry-level laptops warranted for use with Windows 10.

    1. Re:Windows isn't free; it's cheaper than free by vandamme · · Score: 1

      Then again, you can find out in a few minutes if your current machine will run fine on Linux. Something I did 6 years ago .... never looked back.

    2. Re:Windows isn't free; it's cheaper than free by tepples · · Score: 1

      Then again, you can find out in a few minutes if your current machine will run fine on Linux.

      If six years ago the answer turned out to be no, what would you have done at the time?

    3. Re:Windows isn't free; it's cheaper than free by vandamme · · Score: 1

      Probably would have given up because I'm such a noob and don't really get along with computers in general. I'm a retired vacuum tube engineer, true story.
      However, I haven't found a PC since that wouldn't run some kind of Linux, as long as it originally ran Windows ME or later.

  24. Re:"Sales" = Win10 Licenses with 7 downgrade right by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

    I think we're talking about different things here.

    I'm talking about buying a new PC from a major vendor that comes with Windows 10 pre-installed but lets the customer replace that (legally) with Windows 7 or 8.1 post-sale. This is still allowed if the vendor offers it, but they aren't allowed to supply new machines with 7 or 8.1 preinstalled any more, only 10. I can't immediately find a reference, but I've seen reports that similar moves by Microsoft will prevent even selling new machines with those downgrade rights in a year or so.

    I suspect you're talking about more general provisions under enterprise licensing agreements or some sort of developer programme. There are other schemes that Microsoft runs that let people do all kinds of things, but they aren't necessarily available to someone who just went to dell.com and bought a new XPS laptop.

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  25. Re:The challenges are real, but not exceptionally by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Neither of which is a makeshift laptop. The reason Surfaces are used is that they work as Windows laptops, and they can be taken around w/o being anywhere near as unwieldy as a laptop.

  26. Re:The challenges are real, but not exceptionally by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Uh, no! Neither Android nor iOS have the breadth of business applications that Wintel has. The Surface is a Wintel platform, which can be used either as a laptop or in tablet mode. The Galaxies or iPads are media consumption devices, good for watching YouTube or playing games, but not much more. Not so w/ Surface, that is primarily used for content creation

  27. Re:The challenges are real, but not exceptionally by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

    No, that's kind of advertisement and perhaps a bait to get a few users going to the Windows store, and there was a story that the GPO policy which can control that is only available on Windows 10 Enterprise, not Pro.

  28. Re:The challenges are real, but not exceptionally by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    Figures.

  29. Way to polish a turd by vandamme · · Score: 1

    "Sales are in the toilet, so next year HAS to be much better!"

    Not if they discover Linux, though.