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Microsoft Wants To Enable Cellular PCs, But Will Carriers Bite? (computerworld.com)
Microsoft is aiming to enable the installation of non-removable programmable SIM cards and data radios in PCs and Windows tablets. In the company's vision, users will then be able to purchase cellular data for those cards through the Windows Store. The announcement was made at the company's WinHEC conference for device manufacturers in Shenzhen, China. From a report on ComputerWorld: Users would also get settings to help them better manage the use of data plans, so it's easier for them to control how much data apps can suck up. But there's a wrinkle in that plan: Cellular carriers will have to get on board with selling plans through the Windows Store, which will likely be a tougher sell.
What could possibly go wrong???
non-removable programmable SIM so ATT can lock them to ATT only like the ipad's from att?
MS needs to say no carrier locking!
This should come as no surprise. The spying must be continuous!
Sorry, but I don't need another data plan in addition to my phone. I'll just hotspot from my phone plan as needed.
...another fucking interface to hack.
While you've got the hood popped, why not just IoT the BIOS while you're at it.
Yet another design change justified by maximizing recurring revenue for vendors. I grow very tired of being told what I want in a product. Shit is getting old.
Trying to figure out if Microsoft wants to eventually extinguish the cell phone or the PC... judging by the amount of sense they've been making lately, it's probably the PC.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
If the NSA approves it.
Pre-derail-derail: Something something Trump something Clinton something Putin something something Brexit something Westworld!
That seems like a much better question than if the carriers would do it. Since, you know, that would be the first step to convincing the carriers to get on board. By showing demand.
Wow the tech industry has an incredibly short memory. Do you remember how cellular carriers had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the smartphone era? They don't want "unapproved devices" running on their networks, where "unapproved devices" means anything running software they don't like.
Cellular is everywhere. Nobody likes scrounging for wifi. Do any Linux distros (besides Android) support cellular network interfaces?
I assume they're going to make sure you get as good or better latency than a wired connection?
I also assume they're going to pressure carriers into providing proper data plans, not like my phone's plan that just this month got upgraded to all of 500 MB monthly data?
If no to either one of these (and likely a lot more caveats by people smarter than me) then no to even considering it being possibly a good idea.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
dumb microsoft's new motto for windows 10 cellular PC (puke) Spy everywhere all the time!
The NSA thanks you as do our advertisers!
Too many people figured out how to firewall off the telemetry at the router. They need this as another exfil route for their spyware.
The biggest problem with Microsoft getting near a data plan is that you could easily see a scenario where most of your data was getting sucked up by Microsoft's ever-present upgrades. That, and, having to wait an extra 10-15 minutes when you really want to restart your phone.
Why do my back hairs ruffle whenever I read the word "Microsoft" next to the word "non-removable"?
You old scammers. I know you. Go pound sand.
You can buy monthly plans through the carriers. I haven't needed it since my Nexus phone has a hotspot feature.
Best Slashdot Co
Think bigger. Unremovable cellular cards so that they can always be used to spy, even if not actively being paid for.
Good-bye
Some of the early E-readers (e.g. Kindle, Nook, etc) had cellular radios built-in. It was very convenient because Wi-Fi (unlocked or not) isn't ubiquitous.
1. Create a new problem by taking away user control of bandwidth usage, forcing untimely app and windows update,s telemetry etc. 2. Sell a solution to the new problem.
Further to that, hell no.
Wanna buy a shirt?
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They change to a removeable card. Being locked into a carrier is not a good idea. Not only for the problem of movoing to an area where the carrier for your computer has lousy service. The idea is being pushed to aid business travelers who hate having to hunt for wi-fi access. In the US one of the big four will cover most metro areas, but what about the rest of the world where, travel 20 minutes to another country and you have to choose a different national carrier.
If locked to one carrier the answer is no. Micro$oft needs to implement this with changeable sims. Add that feature to a larger antenna than you can fit into a phone and allow it to act as a hotspot as well and you have something of value. Well except for those afraid of a little telemetry. But for the other 99% of customers it would be a great Idea. Especially if I can get it on a large data cap plan (or true unlimited data like my Sprint account) without breaking the bank each month. If data caps are the norm then let me go into the store and adjust my plan for the month or even the week to allow for more data for a short term when needed.
It has to be able to switch carriers and do it quickly and easily. No Sprint in this area, Let me pick up a pay as I go Verizon SIM, or AT&T SIM, heading overseas I can swap in the local sim of my choice .
I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
Wasn't this the whole argument for CDMA to exist to begin with? A non-removable programmable SIM card using proprietary coding and an alternate network that could be locked or, theoretically, unlocked whenever the service provider wanted to?
and you will pay the roaming fees that can be as high as $15-$20 A MEG!
also pay for TXT spam at $0.15-$0.25 meg and $0.50-$1.00 roaming.
He, he, you're too late buddy. Why do you think batteries are soldered to the phones now?
nonremovable? why?
why can't we connect using just login@TelcoId/password ?
Meet cellular modem chip.
>purchase cellular data for those cards through the Windows Store
Cloning somebody's SIM card has just got much easier!
The problem with home networks is people have too much control.
MSFT needs to shift to a network where the control is firmly out the users hands.
no more firewall rules, no more routing rules, no more packet inspection by the user.
This will help telemetry get through, and other MSFT services.
I'm sure it will only be a "small monthly fee" for all you can eat data, subject of course to the EULA and some other terms such as always on telemetry, microphones and webcams that are always on, and detailed data collection for marketing purposes only of course.
The "PC" will cease to exist. Think of it as renting a terminal, with all you can eat data and applications, for a small monthly fee.
Think of it, a computer linked to a credit card, linked to a cell account which is verified. Constant location tracking, and linking of other purchases. Think of the marketing opportunities.
Roaming fees for Data? You mean roaming between cellphone providers or roaming between states?
Always until I cut one trace to the IC, or lift it entirely. On the other hand, they're making it harder and harder to open the case without destroying the harware...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Microsoft is just a joke and a meme anymore than an actual good choice for software. Windows 10 has been a complete failure, and Windows Phones are an even bigger failure. And now Microsoft has decided to double down to attempt to drag more people into their honey pot and walled gardens by running all of it's security through a cell phone carrier that your going to have to pay to keep using.
No thank you Microsoft. I hate your phones, and I hate your direction in the OS market. So I'm not going to buy your god awful phones any more than I'm going to ever upgrade beyond Windows 7 until it can not be avoided any longer. And even then I may just say screw it and go fully to Android for an OS and Steam for the gaming.
Many organizations already have this. It's necessary for first responders who have laptops in emergency vehicles to maintain in constant contact with dispatch. It comes in over a VPN setup through the mobile carrier data. It automatically switches from WiFI to LTE depending on access availability. First Responder organizations are usually Governments with existing carrier contracts for special pricing. There's no need to pay an additional Micro$oft tithe.
This will work with newer phone form factor PC's running full Windows 10. Nothing else makes sense to me.
In Yurop i don't think it will be the problem.
On the other hand, do you still getting charged for incoming calls in USA?
Even a sim card with no plan contacts cell towers to 'check' if they have an active plan. Think of all the location data MS can now collect along with the telemetry. And that even without buying a data plan.
Is it *really* that big a deal outside the sealed & laminated Apple universe to just stick a mPCIe slot on the mobo's underside, cover it with a tiny hatch, and pre-embed suitable antennas for it in the display & run the wires to that same hatch/slot? Most mid+ end laptops *already* have an extra mPCIe slot (though only high-end corporate laptops usually advertise it as a feature & make it officially accessible for things like cellular modems... in most mid-range laptops, it's more like a forgotten, semi-vestigial socket that exists only for factory-installed modules).
The truth is, unless the laptop mfr is an asshole & explicitly locks out "unapproved" mPCIe cards in the UEFI BIOS, as far as Windows & Linux are concerned, they're just normal 1x (4x?) PCI Express slots waiting to be used for something (warning: MANY such slots can work as EITHER mSATA or mPCIe, but the two DO have different pinouts despite having the same form factor & connector... if they don't support mSATA, you'll need a MUCH more exotic & expensive mPCIe SSD with embedded SATA controller like the ones Apple uses in iMacs for flash/ssd or fusion drives).
Likewise, most gaming laptops w/discrete video cards use cards that are electronically-compatible... what makes them proprietary is the fact there's no real standard for dimensions, hole-placement, or cooling of laptop video cards, so you could end up with a laptop that can use an arbitrary video card, but will cook it in seconds, not allow it to be properly mounted, or not have enough room for it).
An active cellular card is effectively a backdoor into your computer. If your computer is connected to your network, then it's also a backdoor into your network.
I doubt it would take much in the way of malware . . . . er . . . . NIT as the FBI calls it, to enable that cellular interface without telling you about it.
Some cooperation from the local telco would authorize the SIM on their network and presto, instant access from everywhere.
As it stands now, any device I own that has a cellular interface resides on a protected VLAN. ( phones, tablets, alarm system, etc )
I do not let those devices converse with any of the other networks as I have no way of knowing who, when and what will have access to the device in question.
If it needs access to network resources, it gets a physical cable.
If incapable of using a physical cable, it doesn't get access to those resources.
I see a future in shielded laptop bags :|
This removes a big argument against the OS always checking to see if you've paid-up (the argument being "what if the PC is not always on the network?")
Microsoft does have cellular Surfaces, which work w/ GSM networks like AT&T and T-Mobile, but unfortunately, not w/ Verizon or Sprint. The lack of Verizon is one of the things that kept me from getting one.
They should do two types of Surfaces - just like everyone does w/ cellphones. One that comes unlocked, but where one can put in anyone's SIM: such a thing would be particularly useful in foreign GSM markets. The other can be locked down w/ whatever - Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, et al. So if one buys the thing from a carrier, they can get the locked version w/ the subscription, and if they want the movable (b/w carriers) model, they can buy it in a Microsoft store. Such a thing would probably be better received than the Lumia
You know that apple does this with the IPad - right. Lots of people really like it - I do.Its a choice. Why not have in Windows based tablets too.
With El Trump appointing folks who are effectively anti-consumer, and anti-competition, in regards to net neutrality this is effectively a pipe dream. No carrier in the USA will even get near this, and if they do it'll be like cable not internet.
"You're subscribing to the top 200 websites!!!"
F. M. L.
Has MS not heard of this? You won't need to fumble with sims or have multiple asubscriptions.. This is already solved.
Twinstiq, game news
All that Microsoft wants to do is shove TC in a device when people really don't want it.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Most enterprise laptops have a place for a SIM card. The problem is that the cost of data on the carriers is just way too much.
...yeah sure, except for the Windows' updates and telemetry which you can bet the user won't be able to disable.
Because Faraday was an idiot and my lead lined case doesn't work for shit?
After all the customer purchasing the data plan isn't the 'customer' for Microsoft telemetry. It is the TLAs who can use it to have an ever more intimate profile of law abiding citizens/stupid criminals, while the true threats still slip under the radar.
There are already 2G and 4G modems that you can buy and attach to whatever you want. There's a proof of concept Raspberry Pi phone out there, too. All of this, in addition to tethering and existing products and plans geared toward providing mobile data for laptops. This shouldn't even be necessary from a hardware standpoint. Before long it will probably be possible to turn just about anything with a computer inside into a phone.
Microsoft is chasing after any rent it can take, but they're grasping for straws with this one.
This would be great, but here in the US we are FUCKED with pricing. Maybe the lucky people elsewhere could enjoy this... we cant.
Not sure what the big deal is. My laptop has a $35 Sierra Wireless MC7700 4G LTE radio in it. I tossed a T-Mobile SIM in there, and I can use T-Mobile anywhere they or their partners offer service on a pre-paid basis. Sure beats wondering if the next hotel room I stay in has usable WiFi. Microsoft wants a piece of this game and I don't see what the problem is. Every laptop should have a 4G radio in the future. The incremental cost is minimal, whether they use Qualcomm Gobi, or even some of the newer Intel 4G LTE silicon. In most antennas, the antennas are already installed.
lol sharing my cell phone 4G is cheaper and easier then falling into Microsoft fantassy of selling connected devices , dont need this .
Microsoft itself won't be selling the majority of these devices, though I expect we will see a Surface 4 and possibly finally see a Surface Mini. I think the non-removable part is mostly about making it possible to make the devices thinner and less expensive to manufacture by eliminating the SIM slot, with getting to market the plans being a side benefit. It's also possible that Microsoft's real goal here is to use their muscle to get lower prices for cellular data, which would improve sales of their devices and other devices that license Windows.
Offering cellular plans through the Windows Store will be a non-starter unless Microsoft offers the carriers a drastically reduced rate for those sales; the 30% that they get for app sales is a non-starter. It's also going to go nowhere in most of the world unless Microsoft is prepared to partner with a LOT of providers. The Asian markets, in particular, will just stick with standard SIM slots unless that happens.