The FBI Is Arresting People Who Rent DDoS Botnets (bleepingcomputer.com)

This week the FBI arrested a 26-year-old southern California man for launching a DDoS attack against online chat service Chatango at the end of 2014 and in early 2015 -- part of a new crackdown on the customers of "DDoS-for-hire" services. An anonymous reader writes: Sean Krishanmakoto Sharma, a computer science graduate student at USC, is now facing up to 10 years in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000. Court documents describe a service called Xtreme Stresser as "basically a Linux botnet DDoS tool," and allege that Sharma rented it for an attack on Chatango, an online chat service. "Sharma is now free on a $100,000 bail," reports Bleeping Computer, adding "As part of his bail release agreement, Sharma is banned from accessing certain sites such as HackForums and tools such as VPNs..."

"Sharma's arrest is part of a bigger operation against DDoS-for-Hire services, called Operation Tarpit," the article points out. "Coordinated by Europol, Operation Tarpit took place between December 5 and December 9, and concluded with the arrest of 34 users of DDoS-for-hire services across the globe, in countries such as Australia, Belgium, France, Hungary, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States." It grew out of an earlier investigation into a U.K.-based DDoS-for-hire service which had 400 customers who ultimately launched 603,499 DDoS attacks on 224,548 targets.
Most of the other suspects arrested were under the age of 20.

Comments

Sounds like

[Anonymous Coward]

Bad Sharma

Re:Sounds like

[Anonymous Coward]

Burma Shave..... Sharma Buve?

Re:Sounds like

[Anonymous Coward]

I reckon it sounds more like AmiMoJo's real name. We can hope...

Re:Sounds like

[TWX]

Sharma you for that...

hey, how about you don't do that

[SirSlud]

A couple of years sounds good to me. Reform, know that it's serious, and don't any of your freedom for granted. I think we're still decades away from the law and society catching up to finding the balance.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Ol Olsoc]

A couple of years sounds good to me. Reform, know that it's serious, and don't any of your freedom for granted. I think we're still decades away from the law and society catching up to finding the balance.

A couple years is significant, although in the US it seems everyone wants everyone executed for anything. Of course we'd all be dead.

I wonder if we should start teaching civics again in schools. Seems a freaking CS graduate should know better, both socially and technically.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[wonkey_monkey]

now facing up to 10 years in prison and/or a fine of up to $250,000.

Doesn't mean he's going to get exactly that.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

A couple of years sounds good to me. Reform, know that it's serious, and don't any of your freedom for granted. I think we're still decades away from the law and society catching up to finding the balance.

It's nice to know you've made that decision based on knowing all the facts of the case contained in a slashdot summary.

Jail is serious. Even the threat of jail can cause reform. He is facing ten years but depending on how much damage the attack actually did, they should let him plead it down to much less, especially if he's a first-time offender. Someone out early on probation who knows that they're going away for five years if they screw up can be more useful to society and more likely to reform than someone who we have to pay to keep in jail.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Cederic]

they should let him plead it down to much less

Why, so that they get a guilty plea and don't have to actually find, assess and present evidence?

"Plead guilty and we'll only give you two years, or we'll be pushing for the full ten and a fine that you'll be working for another 8 years to pay off."

This isn't justice.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[ColdWetDog]

You only get justice if you can afford it.

It's the American way.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[CaptainDork]

Those don't matter as much as the long term effects for a young CS graduate.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Dutch Gun]

Given that the estimated damage was $5000, I'd hope he just gets a rather stiff fine (maybe five to ten times the estimated damages). There's no need for him to be in prison, as he's not a danger to society, although he does need to be punished. The greater value is in letting people know they can't get away with hiring these services without consequences.

For people wishing for law enforcement to go after the botnets themselves, we just had a story from a week ago about international law enforcement removing a very large botnet. They seem to be attacking the problem from both ends, which seems like a reasonable approach.

Now we just need to figure out how to secure all these damned routers and IoT devices so they can't be used as botnets so easily. This wouldn't be nearly so much a problem if the fruit wasn't quite so low-hanging.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Dahamma]

Jail is serious.

So it depriving a business of their livelihood. Someone walking into a store with a gun and robbing the cash register does a LOT less financial damage than these A-holes, but no one argues that armed robbers should be let off with a warning.

That said, I agree that no 18 year old should get multiple years in jail for a first time computer crime that didn't cause human harm. But there needs to be some SERIOUS repercussion, possibly including some (brief) jail time or everyone is going to think you get one get our of jail free card for white collar crimes...

(speaking of that, why not punish *all* white collar crimes by financial damage instead of the wealth of the criminal in that case... half of Wall Street would be in for 10 years after the last shitshow).

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[PlusFiveTroll]

>Why, so that they get a guilty plea and don't have to actually find, assess and present evidence?

That's not 'completely' true. The DA has to present the plea deal to a judge (in theory the same judge that you would have your trial in front of) and the judge tell the DA the plea is not accepted because of lack of evidence and that it must be brought to trial.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Dutch Gun]

I'd say a better analogy would be burglary instead of armed robbery, as threatening someone with a gun is serious because of the implied threat to human life. Also, it's a bit strange that he supposedly brought down this chat site for two months, yet damages are valued at $5000. One can only draw the conclusion that this was not a large, money-making operation.

I'm not making light of this, but this was the equivalent of some small time burglary or shoplifting, not some masterful hack bringing down million-dollar businesses. He may have spent more renting the botnet than the site lost because of his attacks. I'd be up for fining him a decent amount, but jail time punishes the taxpayer as well as the criminal, so should be reserved for serious or violent offenders.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

Prison isn't punishment. Prison is a training ground for future criminal behavior.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone walking into a store with a gun and robbing the cash register does a

But robbing a store with a gun does a lot of emotional damage to the clerk, potentially. The long term cost of that emotional damage can be high and difficult to estimate until years later.

Taking a public web/mail/etc server offline for a little while is far less bad, even if the initial damage bill is higher.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[dyeazel]

I thought the purpose of prison was deterrence? Give the guy a heavy fine and criminal record to make an example of him. The damages were low--why should my tax dollars support this guy while he's in jail?

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[ShanghaiBill]

Paperwork you have to file, refile, pay to file, copy and send to someone else to file, etc...

Defendants don't have to pay to file, and the paperwork is not so much. I have represented myself in several cases (civil not criminal) that were too simple to waste money on a lawyer. I would never do that as a plaintiff, but as a defendant it worked out okay. All were settled out of court on reasonable terms.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Megol]

IMHO: Someone robbing a place at gunpoint should be sentenced to attempted murder, OTOH I think people that attempt to kill someone should be sentenced as if they succeeded.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[mmell]

Require a built-in firewall? After all, how many ports does it take to change colors on an LED light bulb?

Ba-dum bum.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[SirSlud]

When you commit a crime, you deserve to be punished.

This means nothing. You've committed crimes.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[SirSlud]

Ah yes, money is more important than the threat of physical violence.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone walking into a store with a gun and robbing the cash register does a

But robbing a store with a gun does a lot of emotional damage to the clerk, potentially. The long term cost of that emotional damage can be high and difficult to estimate until years later.

Taking a public web/mail/etc server offline for a little while is far less bad, even if the initial damage bill is higher.

Imagine the DAMAGE done to some poor special snowflakes if something like Tumblr were offline!

It's be a full-blown tragedy!

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Then perhaps NOT DOING THAT would be a good decision.

"It was just a prank, bro" isn't a valid defense. Ever.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[CaptainDork]

Fuck valid defense.

I was 26, 45 years ago.

I'm an expert at doing stupid shit.

I just never got caught.

He'll grow up.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't get caught that's the problem.... it's not an excuse.

I for one would like to see you discovered and punished appropriately (ok maybe a bit more than appropriate would be nice)

The world would have 1 less asshole and be less full of shit.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Dahamma]

I'd say a better analogy would be burglary instead of armed robbery, as threatening someone with a gun is serious because of the implied threat to human life. Also, it's a bit strange that he supposedly brought down this chat site for two months, yet damages are valued at $5000. One can only draw the conclusion that this was not a large, money-making operation.

Ok, sure. Felony burglary can get you 10-20 years in many states. Though it usually doesn't unless there are other circumstances. Still, breaking into someone's house and stealing $5000 is most definitely a felony (if the state wants to prosecute it as such). I'm just saying if you are going to give a black teenager 3 years for felony burglary, give a white teenager the same sentence for felony computer hacking. Or decide neither is worth that.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Dahamma]

Sure depends on the amount of each. I'd sure prefer a threat of physical violence over some douche bag stealing my life savings from an investment account, and would gladly argue the latter should pay more.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

I notice nobody bothered to discuss the bail amount - $100,000! That's outrageous, only people of means could possibly raise that, poor people just rot in prison until their trial eventually happens. In the mean time they can't earn an income and the bills keep coming in.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

The Russians better get a longer stick if they want to keep poking the tiger. Russia is hardly worth the effort to respond their antics and actions. World power is determined both by the quality of your military and the financial power a country put to use. Russia's conventional military forces are a shadow of what they once were and the state of California has a higher GDP than Russia. All the US needs to do is make sure the price of oil stays as low as possible which has put a real crimp in the Russian economy. But if I was Russia I would think twice about buzzing a US Naval group and experiencing another plane being shot out of the air. If Turkey can splash a Russian jet when they violated their airspace the US can certainly do the same thing. And when the Russians launch any planes to avenge their lost aircraft the US can shoot them all down as well.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Dutch Gun]

I notice nobody bothered to discuss the bail amount - $100,000! That's outrageous, only people of means could possibly raise that, poor people just rot in prison until their trial eventually happens. In the mean time they can't earn an income and the bills keep coming in.

I guess you're not familiar with bail bonds?

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Good for you?

Actions, even mistakes, have consequences.

It affects other people, so it's not harmless.

He'll grow up, but he'll have to suffer the consequences of his own actions and decisions.

I personally managed to never do stupid shit that happened to be a felony. Because you know, I understand the whole consequences thing.

Congratulations for getting away with it, I guess.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[gravewax]

prisons are full of people that did stupid shit when they were young, Murder, Rape, assault, theft. Just because you committed felonies and got away with it and realised later it was dumb doesn't mean everyone under 30 now gets a free pass. It is bad enough the free passes given out to most teenagers.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's nice to know you've made that decision based on knowing all the facts of the case contained in a slashdot summary."

Assuming that the FBI is accurate that Sharma rented DoS-for-hire services, then yes, totally. The act of renting such a service is the act of attacking someone. Unless you can think of a reason for renting such a service for good, then your snide remark is idiotic. The guy deserves prison and to pay restitution, just as you would if you attacked my business with a DoS attack.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[ChoGGi]

Not a punishment? You're fine with going to jail tomorrow then?

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

I would, going to prison was the happiest time of my life. I didnt have to do shit but hang out with the guys, play cards, read, and work little hustles so I could get a few canteen items hear and there. My life on the outside is shit, I don't have the willpower or ambition to do any better and I dont care. Ive been married once, divorced because I couldn't please a woman because I'm not excited by sex, so that's not really an issue on the inside, I could give a fuck less. Problem is, I'm not really a predator. I'm not going to hurt someone else to go back. I completed my parole without a single violation, that's pretty rare in that world. Honestly, I can't think of a situation where I would go back unless I had to commit a minor crime to get out of the cold if I ended up homeless. But it wouldn't be such a bad thing, it wouldn't bother me in the least. That may sound sad or outside of the norm, but there's many people far more institutionalized than me. Once you've served real time it's not hard to find prison a more comfortable world than living on the outs. It's certainly not much of a punishment for peop,e who are already on the low end of civilization. Maybe if you actually have something to lose...

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[mrchaotica]

I'm just saying if you are going to give a black teenager 3 years for felony burglary, give a white teenager the same sentence for felony computer hacking. Or decide neither is worth that.

In my jurisdiction, at least, they don't. Black teenage burglars get time served and probation. We've got some local criminals who've gotten arrested literally ninety-plus times, and still can't get the judge to put them in actual prison for any significant length of time.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

as usual it's left up to 14 year olds to bring down the great orange satan and his minions.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

Steal a donut because you're hungry -- jail.
Steal a bunch of money through stock manipulation -- promotion.
DDOS, somewhere in between.
phishing -- mostly ignored.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt that 'less full of shit world' - never works out this way. Just different assholes get to bother you, that is all you can get. As for GP statement - I think if you had an option to find out about any illegal activity anybody committed then not only courts unless automated would collapse but at the end the only man standing were the ones not investigated because friends or important servant of those in power. A small group of saints would probably be there too but first - they can be prosecuted too as with this load nobody would bother with real rare case of innocence, second - the chance that they would be a royal pain in the arse if they got to power is huge. Every time a society tried to cleanse itself from dirt, corruption and oppression a mountain of dead corpses had to be disposed of. Arguably the reason the cleansing occurs is that the pendulum went on to far the other direction but it does not make the slaughter any more appealing. OC if all have been in prison once the main problem of social integration of criminals is not as daunting. Still I am not sure I want to have that. I am afraid however that we are going there anyway.

This is not to say the guy should not be disciplined some way. I say - tar and feathers should do for first offense.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

In US it is.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

No, because I don't want to train to become a criminal.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[dwillden]

While going after botnets should be part of the plan. Going after those who hire the botnets also needs to be part of the equation. Botnets need to be attacked from both ends, both those who create them and those who use them, a botnet that never does anything wrong isn't really a problem, it could be used as a distributed computer to process complex problems with all those wasted processor cycles out there on IoT enabled devices. Only if used for DDOS or similar attacks do they become problematic. If nobody wanted to hire or use them, they would be mostly harmless. So we go after both ends, both the creators and maintainers of the nets and those who use them for nefarious purposes. And that means throw the book at the first few individuals to make the point that hiring a botnet for a DDOS is going to send you away to prison for a painful amount of time. It won't eliminate those who would do so, but it might just discourage a few more casual individuals from engaging in the crime.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[swillden]

A couple of years sounds good to me.

Keep in mind that "a couple of years" has a tremendous lifetime impact. The problem is that any crime that carries a maximum sentence of one year or more is a felony. Felonies dog you for life, and in many cases make you unemployable in your chosen profession.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[CaptainDork]

Shoot 'em all, eh?

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

This. Even a couple of months is hugely significant. Hell, a night and probation is hugely significant. The only people its not significant to are the ones who have been desensitized to the system by its overuse. People who already have no job prospects because they lost years already.

Hell just the conviction on your record, alone, can be hugely signicant compared to not having one at all.

In fact, there is quite a bit of evidence that the chance of being caught at all or rather the perception of it, has a lot more to do with modification of behaviour than harshness of punishment. We have been optimizing the wrong way then wondering why it fails.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually they are mostly full of people who committed petty crimes of classes that don't even exist in places that don't consider making people desperate and then arresting them a good way to deal with addiction.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

I think he should serve 90 days, pay a $200 fine and receive 12 extreme lashes with a rattan cane soaked in oil
administered by a martial arts expert.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[AmiMoJo]

In EU countries stuff like this is eventually considered "spent", in that you don't have to tell employers or banks about it. The police keep a permanent record but it won't screw up your life forever.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[AmiMoJo]

Prison is completely unsuitable for a first offence of this nature. It won't provide him with the skills to live a reformed life afterwards, he already has those it seems. A fine seems like the best option, because he could keep his career going and build a life to move past what he did and be a productive contributor to society, but still be punished and deterred from doing it again.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[TWX]

There's no one point of prison. Everyone has their own views on what it's supposed to accomplish and even then, many people have amorphous or at least shifting views on it.

The only thing that is generally agreed upon is that prison separates the convicted from the rest of society. Beyond that, whether it's used to punish, or to rehabilitate, or to act as a deterrent, or as a form of cheap labor, or to "enforce the underclass" to maintain a population that must do the menial jobs that no one wants to otherwise do is up to debate.

As to this kind of case, where young adults commit computer-based crimes, it's common for this to essentially render them unemployable in their field of choice even without any kind of formal equivalent to disbarrment. They've done something that proves that they're not necessarily trustworthy with computers or information technology, yet they also haven't done something so novel, so ballsy as to make names for themselves as possible security consultants. In short, employers don't want workers that might attack the employer's network or services or intellectual property, so they'll just never hire those that committed computer crimes.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[TWX]

Now we just need to figure out how to secure all these damned routers and IoT devices so they can't be used as botnets so easily. This wouldn't be nearly so much a problem if the fruit wasn't quite so low-hanging.

Stronger product liability laws and rulings against manufacturers or distributors would probably be a good start. Make the source responsible for the ability to compromise the device, with financial penalities based on install base when vulnerabilities are not discovered. Use the recall process like most other products are subject to as well.

If it hurts their bottom lines, companies will actually start paying attention to security.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[lactose99]

Renting a botnet to DoS a site isn't just "stupid shit", this should have consequences.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Ol Olsoc]

In fact, there is quite a bit of evidence that the chance of being caught at all or rather the perception of it, has a lot more to do with modification of behaviour than harshness of punishment. We have been optimizing the wrong way then wondering why it fails.

The problem with the get tough on crime movement is that it escalates punishment so quickly that it very quicklys makes for people who aren't afraid to die because they have nothing to live for any more. Or become incredibly violent because that is how Law enforcement treats them. Enter the War on Drugs, which drugs have clearly won. Enter Prohibition, which was the best thing ever to happen to organized crime.

Because the "tough on crime" crowd breeds this weird chimera person who wants the most harsh punishment for everything, the longest sentences - yet does not want to pay for the incarceration. And the incarceration doesn't go down, because there's always something more to be punished harshly. This doesn't work at all. We end up with huge numbers of people in the prisons with no hope, and people who cannot understand why more harshness doesn't stop crime.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

7 billion is far too many. So yes, start with the fuckers who think it's funny to screw other people around.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Wulf2k]

> I personally managed to never do stupid shit that happened to be a felony.

I guarantee that you have, especially if you do anything computer related.

Have you ever sat down at somebody's computer and tried to help them figure out why something on a remote site didn't work? CFAA violation if they were logged in with their own credentials. Unauthorized use of blahblahblah.

Now, go be a stupid kid doing stupid kid stuff in the legal minefield of the internet these days.

May as well just execute this generation.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Wulf2k]

It is "stupid shit" compared to the sentence he'll get for it.

He'd have been better off committing a violent crime.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[Anonymous Coward]

In California the cost of a $100,000 bail bond is $10,000. That cost is codified in California law and is a tidy return on a three month investment.

Basically legal loan sharking.

Something like half of the people in county jails in California are people that can't or won't raise bail.

Re: hey, how about you don't do that

[Rakarra]

Sending criminals to hard labour with poor conditions makes them more productive.

Instead of making iPhones in China we should make them in the US prisons with the same pay and working conditions with anti suicide nets to ensure there is no escape from punishment.

It seems strange, but here in the US we have some sort of stigma against laws that set up slave labor or "indentured servitude."
Wonder why. Must be some relic of the past.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[ebvwfbw]

I wonder if we should start teaching civics again in schools.

No question about it. That's far better than the liberal BS they replaced it with.

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[Dahamma]

Anecdotes are useless in this case. And why should I even believe you have any idea what the real stats are? I prefer to trust actual research...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12...

Re:hey, how about you don't do that

[mrchaotica]

I didn't say black burglars weren't getting treated more harshly (i.e., unfairly) than white burglars, just that they were getting time served and probation instead of three years in prison. It's hard to tell though, because there aren't any white burglars around here to begin with (or maybe there are, but they don't even get arrested).

For Rent?

[freeze128]

If you can rent botnets, then maybe that would be useful to large corporations who do not want to be DDOSed. They rent the botnet, then don't use it. That way, those millions of bots aren't being used to attack their site.

Re:For Rent?

[91degrees]

It could be useful. But the bots are still going to be hijacked PCs. Still breaking the law by using other peoples devices without their consent.

Re:For Rent?

[Anonymous Coward]

HAHAHA you're funny! Here's an even stupider idea! Rent the botnet and dismantle it! It's just dumb enough to work, right?!

Re:For Rent?

[ls671]

Great idea! It seems legit. So, we will me setting multiple botnets shortly to take advantage of this great market opportunity. Shouldn't cost much either since the bots will never be used!

Thanks you!

Re:For Rent?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why rent exclusive access when access to the botnets can be oversold. Have you never heard of TIMESHARES.

Re:For Rent?

[93 Escort Wagon]

If you can rent botnets, then maybe that would be useful to large corporations who do not want to be DDOSed. They rent the botnet, then don't use it. That way, those millions of bots aren't being used to attack their site.

Yes, I'm sure the people who control these botnets would not notice they weren't being used; or would notice but feel bound by their sense of ethics to not take advantage and simultaneously rent the botnet to someone else.

Re:For Rent?

[wisnoskij]

Still breaking the law by using other peoples devices without their consent.

The question here is, is it still breaking the law by NOT using other peoples devices without their consent?

Re:For Rent?

[v1]

that's not how botnets generally work. They're more like timehare services, and typically you can even get time on just a specific number of machines at a time - you pay by the hour by the cpu time. So if you rent a botnet and don't use it, you're just throwing your money away and someone else will use your time and pay for it too, making the bot herder more money.

This article is a little surprising in that it sounds like the FBI going after these people is a *new* thing. I thought it was part of their mandate to deal with interstate crime, and that botnets would be right up their alley?

Should be interesting to see what he gets for his crime. I personally see taking control over thousands or even hundreds of thousands of computers is deserving of some pretty severe punishment and I don't think the criminals or the law for that matter takes it as seriously as they should. This sort of crime is just going to continue to grow until we start throwing the book at them. Traditionally it's been a low-risk, low punishment, high-gain crime that's only been restricted by the technical requirements, which is proving to be a lower and lower bar as time passes.

Re:For Rent?

[fredgiblet]

So essentially pay a permanent bribe to not be attacked.

Re:For Rent?

[Dahamma]

Sounds like extortion to me. The mob uses the same strategy - "hey, pay us to protect you and we don't destroy your business".

Re:For Rent?

[John.Banister]

I think the problem with a successful botnet protection racket is turf. When a gang runs a protection racket on the stores in a neighborhood, the understanding is that they're the only gang with access to that neighborhood. Unless there's a successful way for one botnet to counter another botnet, protection from paying a botnet not to attack won't work unless you're paying every botnet not to attack.

Re:For Rent?

[mmell]

Rent botnet A to attack botnet B. Simultaneously rent botnet B to attack botnet A.

Sit back and enjoy the show.

Re:For Rent?

[rhazz]

That's self-defeating. More people renting botnets leads to higher demand for botnets which leads to people creating more botnets because it's lucrative. While there is a theoretical limit to the amount of hardware out there that can be recruited into botnets, we are pretty far from that limit so things can get a lot worse.

It's the same reason any civil society should ban paying ransoms to terrorists etc. While you may personally benefit, society loses because you are funding the problem.

Re:For Rent?

[Anomalyst]

LEO should rent the botnets and attack a honeypot, record the attacking IP addresses and require the ISP to notify/filter the owners.

Grown Up Children

[Anonymous Coward]

The immaturity of some of these graduate students is astonishing, they're essentially grown up children.

Re:Grown Up Children

[93 Escort Wagon]

The immaturity of some of these graduate students is astonishing, they're essentially grown up children.

Modern society is such that people aren't often forced to grow up until their 20s or 30s.

Re:Grown Up Children

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly you have no clue how mind numbing tedious grad student work can be or how tempting is the thrill of tinkering with hacking tools for a laugh.

Re:Grown Up Children

[ls671]

The immaturity of some of these graduate students is astonishing, they're essentially grown up children.

Every adult is a grown up child! ;-)

https://english.stackexchange....

Re:Grown Up Children

[Anonymous Coward]

Or, if they (which is to say, their parents) have money, they don't have to grow up at all.

Re:Grown Up Children

[sunking2]

Clearing these grad students are spoiled and have too much extra cash laying around if they are spending money on such things.

Re:Grown Up Children

[Anonymous Coward]

Modern society is such that people aren't often forced to grow up until their 20s or 30s.

Modern neuroscience doesn't consider the human brain mature until around 25.

How about targeting the source?

[Anonymous Coward]

Busting a few users sounds like the same failure that is the War On Drugs. They should go after the purveyors of these DDoS/stresser/booter services. Check out this recent list of them, all serviced by CloudFlare in the last year. This is who they need to arrest.

alphastress.com, anonymous-stresser.net, aurastresser.com, beststresser.com, boot4free.com, booter.eu, booter.org, booter.xyz, bullstresser.com, buybooters.com, cnstresser.com, connectionstresser.com, crazyamp.me, critical-boot.com, cstress.net, cyberstresser.org, darkstresser.info, darkstresser.net, databooter.com, ddos-fighter.com, ddos-him.com, ddos.city, ddosbreak.com, ddosclub.com, ddostheworld.com, defcon.pro, destressbooter.com, destressnetworks.com, diamond-stresser.net, diebooter.com, diebooter.net, down-stresser.com, downthem.org, exitus.to, exostress.in, free-boot.xyz, freebooter4.me, freestresser.xyz, grimbooter.com, heavystresser.com, hornystress.me, iddos.net, inboot.me, instabooter.com, ipstresser.co, ipstresser.com, jitterstresser.com, k-stress.pw, layer-4.com, layer7.pw, legionboot.com, logicstresser.net, mercilesstresser.com, mystresser.com, netbreak.ec, netspoof.net, networkstresser.com, neverddos.com, nismitstresser.net, onestress.com, onestresser.net, parabooter.com, phoenixstresser.com, pineapple-stresser.com, powerstresser.com, privateroot.fr, purestress.net, quantumbooter.net, quezstresser.com, ragebooter.net, rawlayer.com, reafstresser.ga, restricted-stresser.info, routerslap.com, sharkstresser.com, signalstresser.com, silence-stresser.com, skidbooter.info, spboot.net, stormstresser.net, str3ssed.me, stressboss.net, stresser.club, stresser.in, stresser.network, stresser.ru, stresserit.com, synstress.net, titaniumbooter.net, titaniumstresser.net, topstressers.com, ts3booter.net, unseenbooter.com, vbooter.org, vdos-s.com, webbooter.com, webstresser.co, wifistruggles.com, xboot.net, xr8edstresser.com, xtreme.cc, youboot.net

If CloudFlare would stop providing bulletproof hosting for criminals and spammers, the internet would be a better place. But CloudFlare apparently loves its criminal customers and the FBI loves CloudFlare. DDoS purveyors, terrorist websites, malware distributors, CloudFlare seems to welcome them all to its hive of scum and villainy. Maybe it's time to revive the concept of the Usenet Death Penalty and apply it to all traffic to and from CloudFlare. They're the sewer of the internet and should be null routed and de-peered.

Re:How about targeting the source?

[Anonymous Coward]

This might be an unpopular comment, but CloudFlare also hosts prominent private bittorrent sites, and I'm glad that they do. Piracy is a problem, but the dysfunction we've had in government (in the US) means that copyright isn't going to be meaningfully reformed anytime soon. Without piracy sites, I doubt that services like Netflix or Apple Music would exist -- they exist now because competition made the business model of the music and film labels / studios obsolete. I think this is a good thing. Piracy also makes content available to people who would not otherwise be able to afford it. Poor people aren't entitled to luxury cars, but I think they are entitled to western culture, whether they can afford it or not. Going after CloudFlare isn't the answer. Giving ISPs an incentive to kill connections that are obviously being abused for DDoS purposes is.

Re:How about targeting the source?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can't be a part of the solution then there is often good money to be had prolonging the problem.

Re:How about targeting the source?

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you think the FBI got the list of people who rented from these places? CloudFlare of course!

Re:How about targeting the source?

[mmell]

Pendulum swings hard left - we get a "Wild West" internet where nothing can be trusted.

Pendulum swings hard right - we get AOL, the sanitized (government?) internet where nothing can be trusted.

Who should be less mistrusted - the left or the right? Self-regulation hasn't worked. Government regulation has seldom been any better. Perhaps the solution is to hold manufacturers of IOT devices accountable? General purpose computers, no - those are managed by people and those people should be held to account for the actions of the systems under their control (because before they get to drive a computer, they ought to know how to drive a computer. Hey, it works for cars!). But the vast collection of internet appliances exist because the manufacturers implicitly assert that they've done their job right - that's a whole lot of toes to hold in the fire, yes?

Re:How about targeting the source?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if the FBI will arrest botnet renters who use them to get back at the spammers...

Better yet, maybe the FBI ought to use its formidable resources to go after the spammers themselves,
as well as "Vindoze Support" and "{female} from Account Services", etc., etc., etc. IOW, put the
taxpayers' money to good use doing something that affects large numbers of people for once.

Re:How about targeting the source?

[ChoGGi]

Free speech means taking the good with the bad.

Re:How about targeting the source?

[Anonymous Coward]

If the service is illegal, why not have it taken down via proper channels? Expecting CloudFlare to police every possible customer does not seem reasonable and last I knew, they responded to lawful subpoenas.

Unless you were planning to DDoS the DDoS sites offline?

Re:How about targeting the source?

[Anonymous Coward]

The war on drugs is significantly different in that drugs are addictive. The users of drugs are victims of a sort themselves.
Arresting a botnet renter is much more like arresting people who try to hire hit-men. Both the purchaser and the purveyor should be arrested and treated harshly in these scenarios.

Re:How about targeting the source?

[Anonymous Coward]

Free speech doesn't apply to commercially attacking websites.

Re:How about targeting the source?

[ChoGGi]

I never said it did, I meant Cloudflare.

Re:How about targeting the source?

[Rakarra]

Without piracy sites, I doubt that services like Netflix or Apple Music would exist

Netflix is an example of where we've slid backwards -- lost freedom compared to what we had before. Strongly-controlled DRM platform, streaming that's not on your terms, no ownership by the end user, and high fees from the content companies.

Don't get me wrong, I like me some Netflix, but online streaming is an example of a power grab by the content companies that worked.

Re:How about targeting the source?

[ebvwfbw]

Pendulum isn't correct. If you swing hard left, you're into fascism, communism, socialism area. Those are the left, those are the ones with the most restriction. Swing right and you don't have that at all. You have freedom, conservatism, things that work. That's why they're conservative. Funny how recently in the past couple of decades the left wants people to think that fascism is to the right. Right of communism - yes, still plenty to the left.

Never the less, for some things that people do, right, left, up, down, whatever, we all with very few (ignorant) exceptions want them dead. They're just assholes and a danger to all of us. Put 'em down like the mad dog they are.

Actual Charges

[Anonymous Coward]

Transmission of a Program, Information, Code, and Command to Cause Damage to a Protected Computer. -- Felony

Maximum Term 10 year. Maximum Fine $250,000

Re:Actual Charges

[CaptainDork]

So no guns (legally) for this dude.

Re:Actual Charges

[Anonymous Coward]

Or the right to vote, or likely any job that can place him in the middle class again. But yeah, thank god we are getting rid of scary guns in the hands of Californian botnet operators.

Good arrest and or fine this type of hack

[Anonymous Coward]

Less people will ddos people if they know when they get caught that they're in trouble.

Re:" Krishanmakoto Sharma"

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh god... we built a wall and now we can't deport people anymore.
Should have thought this through more.

Re:Burn them at the stake

[Anonymous Coward]

Sodomy?

Unauthorised Access is already a US felony

[redelm]

Doh! Accessing a computer without the owners permission is a felony under 18 USC 1030 . Even if the vendors did not access/test their botnet, they are accessories-before-the-fact. DDoS on open, public ports may or may not be covered as contrary to 18 USC 1030 , however accessing all the little 'bots most certainly is.

Re:Burn them at the stake

[Anonymous Coward]

They might like that

Kill it with fire

Re:Burn them at the stake

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it a punishment if they enjoy it?

How forgetful of me (for a total of 7 dead)

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & this router attacking malware https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9995967&cid=53488427/ for a grand total of 7 botnets/malwares etc. SLAIN by "yours truly" this week via hosts files!

APK

P.S.=> That's in addition to my "headcount" https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53510289/ of other botnets/malwares "NUKED" this week alone... apk

Re:Meanwhile APK stops botnets dead all week

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

P.S.=> It's NOT easy being "world-class"... apk

Maybe that's why you've never managed to achieve such a status, except in terms of "being a spammer".

scumbags

[Anonymous Coward]

i hope the scumbags who were attacking my server got arrested along with them. not because i care that my shitty sites (www.greedbox.com) were down for hours or sometimes days, but because they are idiots and deserve to go to jail for causing disruption to every other customer of my isp.

Chatango

[DaMattster]

I have to wonder why Sharma chose Chatango as a target. It looks like a pretty worthless target to me. There has to be more to this story than meets the eye so I'm left wondering if he was part employed by Chatango, got screwed by them, and decided to exact some revenge. If it was the case that Sharma got screwed by Chatango, I fail to see the problem here. I don't automatically think that just because someone is arrested or charged with a crime that they are guilty.

Re:Chatango

[93 Escort Wagon]

He probably got kicked off Chatango for harassing some woman.

Danegeld

[liquid_schwartz]

I see you've never heard of thisDanegeld. Here's a citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

New ways to attack politicians

[John.Banister]

or anyone else you don't like. If I'm a hacker in a non-extradition country, I gain access to someone's system and I want them in jail, I just make it look like I'm selling (if I can't get access to their bank account, I can always create a promise of assistance with trafficking) them the use of my botnet, which I then use to attack their rivals. OTOH, if I want to buy the services of a botnet, then I want to first try and piss off hackers online, so I can later claim that my purchase was actually their doing.

Malwarebytes folks & /.'ers say otherwise

[Anonymous Coward]

/.'ers like APK Hosts File Engine by dozens https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9963399&cid=53509617/ & https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9963399&cid=53509663/ + Malwarebytes' hpHosts HOSTS & RECOMMENDS my ware (I could get no HIGHER compliment than that on quality + efficacy of my work imo) - So, that all "said & aside" - You've done better? Hell no!

* Face facts: Your jealousy's showing & you WISH you were me instead of being a "ne'er-do-well" nobody JustAnotherOldBitch - the day YOU can show us from a valid reputable source (as I can via Malwarebytes' sites) that YOU have done better than my previous posts illustrate? THEN, & only then, can a chattering do nothing like you even BEGIN to talk!

(Should I post things I've done in the art & science of computing that YOU never, EVER will? Ask & ye shall receive (to your own dismay bigmouth)).

APK

P.S.=> So, that all "said & aside" - You've done better?... apk

Re:Malwarebytes folks & /.'ers say otherwise

[Anonymous Coward]

/.'ers like APK Hosts File Engine by dozens

Even if that meant anything, you suffer significant confirmation bias by clinging to each and every vaguely positive comment, while treating any criticism as coming from trolls who can be ignored.

You've done better?

Your insistence that someone has to have 'done better' is a form of ad hominem attack. If someone's argument is poor, it should be possible to answer it without resorting to dismissing them because of a lack of achievement. I know, I know - you think you do and you cannot understand why people keep telling you that you haven't.

Should I post things I've done

No. It's irrelevant, here, as it is nearly every time you publish it. It's a kind of appeal to authority. Do you think that by spamming a list of the last 30 years worth of personal achievements it has _any_ bearing on the argument you make, here? If it did, then I could just as easily counter by observing that a search of your on-line presence shows forum after forum, site after site where you have spammed links to your host editor, ignored the rules and culture of the board you are posting to and ending up in arguments, being down modded, having accounts banned etc. You can't use an account on Slashdot because it would be modded to oblivion because you refuse to modify your behaviour to conform to even the fairly basic rules, here.

And stop with the name calling. FFS, you're a 50 year old man making up names to mock people and you wonder why no-one takes you seriously.

YT

Re:Malwarebytes folks & /.'ers say otherwise

[Anonymous Coward]

Apk was attacked first and provides solid evidence showing users like his ware contrary to your statement.

Re:Malwarebytes folks & /.'ers say otherwise

[Anonymous Coward]

apk has an interesting thing with multiple personalities...

Requires remuneration and public service

[ebusinessmedia1]

People like this should be made to pay back every penny of damage, and then put into a MANDATORY public service program for 2 years where they spend WEEKENDS (no weekends off!) teaching kids in poor neighborhoods how to code, or some other socially redeemable task. For every weekend he misses, he has to make up two more - and there is no financial remuneration. If he does it again, jail!

Re:Requires remuneration and public service

[Anonymous Coward]

People like this should be made to pay back every penny of damage, and then put into a MANDATORY public service program for 2 years where they spend WEEKENDS (no weekends off!) teaching kids in poor neighborhoods how to code, or some other socially redeemable task. For every weekend he misses, he has to make up two more - and there is no financial remuneration. If he does it again, jail!

No, they should be put into a jail cell with a computer, made to stay at least one day, and as soon as they want out, just send an email to the prison administration. And we put the prison administration's computer under a permanent DDoS attack.

Meanwhile APK stops 8 botnets dead all week

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject (via custom hosts files & APK Hosts File Engine) Ransonware https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9982895&cid=53468617/, DDoS malware https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9978265&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=53461435/, Steganos https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9963399&cid=53442477/, Mirai botnet https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10009063&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=53507971/, Zeus Floki Bot https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9974489&cid=53452359/, DNSChanger style router attacks https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10006549&cid=53505145/ & More router attacking malware for botnets https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9995967&cid=53488427/

* :)

APK

P.S.=> It's NOT easy being "world-class"... apk

Re: " Krishanmakoto Sharma"

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup. Deport this fucker, and his entire family.

If they are American citizens, then let's make their lives so miserable that they flee back to the shithole mud huts their grandparents crawled from.

Agreed 110% & thanks (me?)

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: For providing 102 means to FURTHER "arrest operations" of 8 botnets this week by your providing those DDoS'ing sites to block via custom hosts files (the means I use to protect others online as well as speed them up + make their connections more reliable & more anonymous)

* MOD WHO I REPLIED TO UP TO +5 FOLKS!

(I may or MAY NOT have had those already but it never hurts to build those into hosts for tonite's build as blocked here if not)

APK

P.S.=> Per my subject's termination above? This is what I meant -> https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53510613/ as what I use to "arrest botnet's operations" stopping them DEAD (as far as an end-user's concerned stopping access to C&C servers + other networked parts of botnets OR stalling them even IF they are infested as they can't "talk back to mama C&C" for orders)... apk

Re: Agreed 110% & thanks (me?)

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

Re:Agreed 110% & thanks (me?)

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're going to use a custom host file DO NOT use one made with APK's Hosts File Engine. Do not support forum spammers! If you dare criticize or comment on his tool he will stalk your comments and harass you. I would not trust a piece of software made by someone who can barely put together a coherent argument and thinks stalking someone on a forum is an appropriate reaction to critisism. How do we know he doesn't have code in his app to help him stalk and monitor his detractors? Why is he so obsessed with showing clean malware scans? Why does his app take so much longer to run than other similar programs?

Re:Agreed 110% & thanks (me?)

[Anonymous Coward]

His program also has IPs that lead to CP sites, likely as a pending blackmail tactic. "He's hiding it in this file under pretense of 'blocking' it!"

So how did he get caught?

[denis.goddard]

What did he do, pay with a credit card? Or with a BTC address publicly connected to himself?

Re:So how did he get caught?

[mmell]

Probably cash - a bag full of used twenties slipped under the men's room stall.

What?

[Gumbercules!!]

The FBI estimate his attacks cost Chatango about $5,000.... so bail is set at $100,000 and fines are around $250,000 with 10 years in prison? What?!? Surely a payment of say - $5,000 or maybe even $10,000 to the effected company would be a more suitable response?

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

If I smash your window and it costs you $100 to replace, should my punishment be capped at a $100 fine?

There's an element of "deterrence" in the sentence, and that's legit.

Re:What?

[Gumbercules!!]

Hence me saying "or maybe even $10,000...." - but a x70 increase (fine and penalties combined) plus jail seems OTT, to me.

Re:What?

[gravewax]

his maximum fine is 250,000 with 10 years prison. That is simply what the maximum is for the crime he committed, the judge then has between 0-250,000 to play with if he is found guilty. FYI, $5000 or $10,000 would be way to small in my opinion, the fine does need to be orders or magnitude greater. I would be thinking more $25k-$50k with 1-2 years jail.

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

You want to send somebody to jail for a non-violent crime that didn't even cause physical damage? To what purpose?

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since bail is less than the potential fine it should be obvious that the maximum penalty is very unlikely. Also bail is usually handled through a bail bondsman so only a small percentage is provided by the suspect. That small amount is a guide as to the court's intentions should there be any fine. This is a short time in work release, restitution, and short time parole office visit type situation as long as Sharma doesn't get into any more trouble before sentencing.

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

> I would be thinking more $25k-$50k with 1-2 years jail.

Jesus christ you 'muricans are fucked up.

Yes, lets lock kids up for this shit. Surely 2 years in prison with rapists and murderers will sort out the script kiddies. They'll definitely be productive members of society when they get out. He caused $5000 of 'damage' which itself is probably overblown. Fuck off, 2 years is ridiculous, even child rapists don't get that half the time.

Case in point: me. I did much worse than this as a kid. Got caught. Even had consequences. It really sucked. Won't do it again.

However, now I'm gainfully employed and have actually redirected those talents to something more legitimate. And am paid very well for doing so. And the public even benefits. Crazy... Win - win for society, and me. No recidivism.

If I had gone to jail for 2 years.. I'd be a very different person right now. And since Id be unemployable... Well, It would be a net drain on society we'll put it that way.

The difference is, I live in a first world country.

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bail is set at a price that ensures the defendant shows up to trial. With that name, he's probably not a US Citizen. That makes him a huge flight risk, even if it's a nonviolent crime.

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

You want to send somebody to jail for a non-violent crime that didn't even cause physical damage? To what purpose?

Spreading hacking know-how among the inmates? One felon in, ten felons out.

Computers hijacked for botnet

[khz6955]

What's the penalty for those allowing their 'computers' to be hijacked and used as part of a botnet?

Re:Computers hijacked for botnet

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the penalty for those allowing their 'computers' to be hijacked and used as part of a botnet?

GWX

(Get Windows 10)

Re:Computers hijacked for botnet

[Anonymous Coward]

many of the current botnets are built on insecure IoT devices where the user has little say apart from purchasing it. Sadly so many of the open source projects in the IoT space are complete and utter shit security wise that this is going to be an escalating problem for sometime.

Wait - I have a better idea . . .

[mmell]

We don't need to take any legal action other than seizing the botnet for more appropriate use. D'ya suppose Trump's allies in Moscow would appreciate the simple irony in being attacked by literally hundreds of thousands of thermostats, light bulbs, baby monitors, security cameras, smart TV's, DVR's - it would be the ultimate proletarian protest, most of it done by devices made in China!

Re:Wait - I have a better idea . . .

[Coren22]

Love the sig.

It would be funny to attack Russia, but what would it accomplish? If they really did perform the hack, what are you going to charge them with? All they did was expose the truth, what a horrible crime.

Isn't that rather like paying blackmail?

[mmell]

Besides, if a major corporation were to rent a botnet, what makes you think they wouldn't use it?

Hey - good to see you here!

[mmell]

Hate to admit it, but you're dead-bang right here.

Don't get me wrong - DNS is not the cause and your solution is not the cure for all ills (and has practically no application in the IOT), but with Windows systems being only somewhat more secure than the average baby monitor, it might be a start. Hell, I can even think of a couple of major players who could benefit from something like this. I can't name 'em, but I've worked at a couple of major tech-sector firms which still use hostfiles because DNS can't fill the bill for them (due to complexity or insecurity, or both).

It's also good to see you've dialed the hyperbole down a few notches. This is respectable behavior, the sort which might get you the notice you want. Keep it up!

Mike Mell

Re:Hey - good to see you here!

[Anonymous Coward]

You talk about being respectable. You made disrespectful libelous posts apk's way like this one Mike Mell https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=5117369&cid=46931715/ ? You have to earn respect. You haven't mine so at least I don't respect your opinions.

Re: Multiple identical posts (only two so far)

[mmell]

You do have to stop reposting the same thing over and over. Combined with your immediate resort to personal attacks, this only serves to blunt and dilute your message.

Change will only come gradually - a lot of people here (especially the older /.'ers) will see an A/C post with "APK" in the body as a sign that you're not to be taken seriously. Easy, man! Lay off the spambardment and the personal attacks and soon you'll be able to post without fear of being ostracized. In this area, you've definitely got something right - time to make people listen while you whisper, rather than plugging their ears when you shout.

You do libelous personal attacks mmell

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Telling lies about me saying I'm a pedo https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=5117369&cid=46931715/

"you've definitely got something right" - by mmell ( 832646 ) on Sunday December 18, 2016 @09:24PM (#53511241)

I had it right aeons ago & my posts get unjustifiably downmodded?

* You'd do well to take me seriously & apparently do you if your own words quoted stand for anything from you.

APK

P.S=> I never would you though - why? See that 1st link of yours above & who are you to tell ME how to do what I do when you haven't done it yourself??... apk

Re:You do libelous personal attacks mmell

[Anonymous Coward]

It's certainly not a lie. Your program has IPs that lead to those kinds of sites.

Protip mate, "It's there for blocking reasons" doesn't hold up in court.

HackForums

[Anonymous Coward]

its hosted in the usa its pwned by govt ...end of story last hacker site for real in usa was about 2001 and after 9/11 they all moved.in fact they started moving before 9/11 at time of the drink or die raids

*Sigh*

[mmell]

This sort of behavior got Herr Drumpf elected, but it isn't doing you any good here. If you will insist on dwelling on the past, we of the present will be more than happy to leave you there.

If this is your only use for an olive branch, I'll be more than happy to stop offering it. However, I doubt very seriously that you will find anyone else here even remotely interested in giving you even this much benefit of the doubt. Really - my comments were the closest I've seen here (aside from your own) to even remotely according you the respect of a peer.

But never mind - I'll stop. After all, a simple Windows hostfile manager is hardly the solution to all the worlds ills - and if yours continues to languish in obscurity because you do not understand civilized behavior, who am I to object? After all, I've never seen your solution in use in an enterprise environment and don't expect to - because no competent IT professional could recommend its use in an enterprise environment, not if it comes with the baggage of someone such as yourself attached.

Let me know when you understand the difference between friend and foe, won't you? I'd rather hoped you were learning to behave like an adult, but I see you're more like our President-erect.

Re:*Sigh*

[Anonymous Coward]

I find your posts and APK's responses to them fascinating. I would have thought he'd be a little more open to them.

I'm intrigued by yours and YT's efforts to engage him in conversation, but after years, I'm pretty sure it's hopeless.

Re:*Sigh*

[Anonymous Coward]

APK seems locked in a world-view/mind-set of his own devising. He seems unable or unwilling to engage in self-reflection or to evaluate external feedback to a useful degree. In some ways it's like the deeply religious. There are beliefs and articles of faith that are simply unquestionable. Those things that might cause a need to examine these axioms are to be avoided, aggressively in some cases.

I can think of few things worse. Prison might trap the body, but unquestioning belief traps the mind.

If he were happy, then I'd probably not poke and prod, but these are not the posts of a happy man. He's been banned on other sites, left forums that were more aggressive in their moderation. For all his bluster about 'winning' and beating people, he'd be torn apart on sites that are less 'restrained' in their discourse. He's kind of washed up here because, on the whole, people are a little more tolerant, even of cranks and even sympathetic to the kind of social blindness that APK exhibits.

I used to poke at Homelessinlajolla in much the same way and for much the same reason. There's something about unquestioning belief that makes me itch. I'll stop, if asked, but to the extent that APK keeps posting in this way, I'll probably keep prodding. For a while, at least.

YT

Nothing cures everything

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: I never say hosts cure all. I say hosts do far more w/ far less vs. other "so-called 'solutions'" that are riddled w/ security issues, inefficiency & more moving parts complexity for exploit + breakdown (locally installed DNS/antivirus)

OR

Vs. those 'souled-out' to NOT do the 1 job they had or inefficiencies in them (addons)

Adblock is 'souled out' & inefficient + inferior in ability.

Ublock's inferior inefficient imitation too (doesn't do dns stuff hosts can yet uses hosts - inferior imitation = sincerest form of flattery for me)

NoScript doesn't block out script sources as well - it has to parse pages for tags - hosts block script sources outright (especially in ads that slow & infect us).

Each = slower usermode vs. hosts in kernelmode too.

APK

P.S.=> My success this week on how hosts shutoff access to & from 8 botnet C&C's say the rest w/ proof https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53510613/ ... apk

Re:Nothing cures everything

[Anonymous Coward]

A list of sites in a host file is a blacklist - it's only effective once someone has identified the threat source and added it to a list.

A host file does not
- allow you to block using wildcards.
- allow you to block page elements in real time.
- update automatically

They cannot
- stop a malicious script from a site that has been allowed, but has become compromised.
- stop ads that originate from the same site as the one you want to view.

I've separated out the last two because they are low-probability or edge cases.

The 'more' that a host file can do is largely edge cases or low-probability problems. The 'less' that it does it with is such a trivial saving for most systems less than a decade old that it's almost irrelevant.

Your hosts editor has no logging and no version control. As far as I can tell, you can't roll back to an earlier version of your host file (unless you take the time to manually copy it somewhere). You can't tell me when a particular entry was added, nor where it came from. That's a gaping security problem right there.

but, I'm glad you finally admit that a hosts file alone is insufficient. That's real progress.

YT

OMG, Arresting people that break the law...

[melting_clock]

There are very few applications for a DDoS attack that could be considered legal. The FBI, and other law enforcement agencies, should be arresting those that break the law. Maybe that will leave them less time to spy on the rest of us...

There are more victims in a DDoS attack than the target. They can include:
* The people or organisations with infected devices that launch the attack that can have actual costs due to the use of their connections.
* Internet service providers.
* The rest of us that just want to be able to surf the net without reduced performance.
* Those that have a legitimate reason and right to access the target of the attack.

I can't see any reason to feel sympathetic towards the customers of DDoS for hire that get caught. Lock them up like any other criminal.

Respect I get #1/2 contrary proofs

[Anonymous Coward]

his hosts program is actually pretty good by xenotransplant

his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources by alexgieg

I've never tried to belittle (APK's) work, I've flat out said it's good by BronsCon

take a look at the APK hosts file engine by SuperKendall

APK is kinda right. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works by bmo

APK is totally right on this count. Adblock Plus on Firefox mobile is a dog on older, or lower end, phones. A hostfile based adblocker makes for a much better experience by chihowa

I like your host file system by Karmashock

I find your hosts file admirable by vel-ex-tech

* My code's liked/used + recommended & hosted by Malwarebytes' hpHosts - see subject!

APK

P.S.=>

"my comments were closest I've seen to even remotely according you the respect of a peer" mmell (832646)

see above... apk

Respect I get #2/2 contrary proofs

[Anonymous Coward]

I support APK's stand on the hosts file by Trax3001BBS

Your premise that hostfiles are a good way to deal with advertising and malvertising is quite valid by JazzLad

APK's monolithic hosts file is looking pretty good by Culture20

APK... Awesome to see he's still spreading the good word by Molochi

ABP is insufficient as a solid hosts file does everything that APK reminds us about by fast turtle

APK isn't wrong by cfalcon

APK, I know people give you a lot of shit regarding hosts, but please don't ever stop by nasredin

You need APK's hosts file by Teun

APK solution STILL relevant by Thud457

you're right about hosts files by drinkypoo

* My code's liked/used + recommended & hosted by Malwarebytes' hpHosts - see subject!

APK

P.S.=>

"my comments were closest I've seen to even remotely according you the respect of a peer" mmell (832646)

see above & https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53511951/ ... apk

Where's your /. registered 'luser' account?

[Anonymous Coward]

"You can't use an account on Slashdot because it would be modded to oblivion" - by Anonymous Coward "YETI (LMAO) on Sunday December 18, 2016 @10:34PM (#53511567)

See subject - answer the question! Saw your latest "Cry of the hypocritical NE'ER-DO-WELL" hypocrisy too:

"making up names to mock people" - by Anonymous Coward "YETI (LMAO) on Sunday December 18, 2016 @10:34PM (#53511567)

Looks to me, based on the above, YOU make up "fake names" (you do have a /. registered 'luser' account don't you, lol) to troll me with hypocrite/pot-calling-the-kettle-black while you post anonymously as I do (signing off too, gosh "imitation = sincerest form of flattery" proving you WISH YOU WERE ME as you "EAT YOUR WORDS" https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9986237&cid=53480147/ ).

APK

P.S.=> Go away - I'll outsmart & outthink you every time you try this (I always do easily) - plenty here take ME seriously (not you) https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53511951/ & https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53511993/ ... apk

Re:Where's your /. registered 'luser' account?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject

You do realise that every post has a subject? That those of us who read can actually read the subject and don't have to be directed to it?

Now, to the question

Where's your /. registered 'luser' account?

What? So you can stalk me from thread to thread crowing about your 'victory'? Spamming 'run Forrest, run' in countless threads? Posting multiple copies of links back to threads and topics that have nothing to do with anything except your attempt to 'win'?

No thank you. You're an aggressive narcissist with poor manners. I'll deal with you anonymously until you grow up or learn to behave.

YOU make up "fake names"

Dear gods, is your reading comprehension really that bad? I was asking you to stop calling people names that you have made up for them, not accusing you of making up a name for yourself so that you can mock them.

The rest of your post is your usual drivel and I've addressed most of it already. You just keep repeating yourself as though assertion was proof and the more times you say something the 'truer' it is.

No one wishes they were you. Seriously. You're considered a crank in most of the forums you've posted in. You are obnoxious, have clear problems with social cues and are fixated on a period in your life when you were successful and seem unable to move on, grow or develop. Frankly, you're pitiable. Taking a shot in the dark, I'd say you are without close relationships of any kind (with the possible exception of a mother) and have had very few long term relationships. You are 50 years old and your main claim to success is a tool you developed more than a decade ago, some articles you wrote at about the same time and a brief career as a college athlete. No, APK, I really, _really_ don't want to be you.

Go away

Can't make me. Shan't. Nyeh nyeh *rasberry noises*

I'll outsmart & outthink you every time you try this

Possibly. But given your inability to write coherently, it's a moot point.

plenty here take ME seriously

And you link to a list of what, 8 people saying something vaguely positive over how long? That you have saved? Oh you poor man. There are more people than that in the last _week_ who have criticised you, asked people to ignore you, called you a crank, wished you were dead etc. But none of them count. Positive statements count, negative ones don't.

YT

Hey how about

[siamesevodka]

DON'T DO THE CRIME IF YOU CAN'T DO THE TIME. I don't feel sorry for this guy.He is twenty five years old. What do you want him to have? A participation certificate instead. The reason I shell out good money for malware and anti-virus every year, is to keep assholes like this from messing up my computer. Put him in jail with Rachel from cardholder services. I used to think used car salesman were the bottom feeders, but telemarketers and people that just want to ruin things like this guy are the new bottom feeders. The benefit of a good education isn't worth much if you make poor decisions like this. 10 years will give him time to learn how to be a janitor or fast food worker, because nobody is going to hire him for what education says he is. What a waste.

Re:Hey how about

[siamesevodka]

Also this guy ends up in prison with hardened criminals he may find out there is an entirely new meaning to denial of service.

Re:Hey how about

[Anonymous Coward]

25 years old, I seriously doubt he will be able to successfully deny service, they will make sure his bandwidth is enlarged and pushed to the max.

Re:Hey how about

[Anonymous Coward]

DON'T DO THE CRIME IF YOU CAN'T DO THE TIME

only works if by going about your business does not violate the law already. What I mean is that in US all people commit federal felony almost on daily basis. What you do not have is prosecution of every such act as that would be meaningless. But the option is there. You can ask Harvey Silverglate if you do not trust me.

Re:Hey how about

[Anonymous Coward]

> A participation certificate instead.

Oh fuck off. Just remember who's awarding them, and who complains when they're not received.

Spoiler alert: it's their parents.

Re:Hey how about

[siamesevodka]

Then it's amazing to me they start whining when they do get caught that your being unfair to them. What you are saying in essence is everyone is a felony criminal everyday and this is being unfair to the one's who get caught. The reason they punish people is to be a deterrent to other people. In the end this fellow ruined his life, not society. You are always taking a risk of getting caught if you ignore the laws. If you don't feel you should be punished then don't do it. The big misconception with crime is that some people are better at not getting caught than others. But leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for them to find you or having your best friend turn you in for the reward money can shave points off that notion as well. You are playing a fools lottery if you think you can get away with it on a daily basis. Also in certain states [Oklahoma for one] they have sentencing guidelines that can be tough as well. A friend of mine who is a prison guard found a guy in Oklahoma prison who was serving a life sentence for selling methamphetamines and it was his first offense. The sentence guidelines stated that on a statistical basis formula that every so often a convicted criminal had to be given the maximum sentence. Nowhere in the guideline does it say first offense will be treated differently. Guess he won the lottery huh?

Addons = inferior & inefficient vs. hosts

[Anonymous Coward]

What hosts do addons can't:

PROTECT vs.:

1.) bad sites (past ads)
2.) fastflux
3.) dynDNS
4.) DGA
5.) downed DNS
6.) poisoned dns
7.) trackers
8.) spam payload
9.) phish payload
10.) caps
11.) trackers (dnsrequestlogs/ads)
12.) dns blocks
13.) slowdown 2 ways: adblocks & hardcodes

14.) Multiplatform
15.) Ez data edit
16.) Block more efficiently (cpu/ram/I-O)

17.) UBlock no DNS bennys = poor imitation = "sincerest form of flattery"
18.) NoScript tag parses. Hosts block adservers beforehand cheaper

APK

P.S.=> Addons are:

INEFFICIENT:

AB+ 151mb http://cdn.ghacks.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/adblocker-memory-consumption.jpg/

UBlock 64MB http://cdn.ghacks.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/adblocker-memory-consumption.jpg/

(hosts ~ 6mb)

ClarityRay defeatable

Don't work http://www.businessinsider.com/google-microsoft-amazon-taboola-pay-adblock-plus-to-stop-blocking-their-ads-2015-2/

SLOWER: http://superuser.com/questions/686041/which-leads-to-faster-browsing-an-ad-blocker-or-an-edited-hosts-file/

Re:Addons = inferior & inefficient vs. hosts

[Anonymous Coward]

What can a HOSTS file do against https://www.dnsleaktest.com/wh...

Nothing :)
Using DNSCrypt with your own DNS server / a blocklist actually works unlike a HOSTS file...

Re:Addons = inferior & inefficient vs. hosts

[Anonymous Coward]

Draw with ad blocker
1. bad sites
2. fastflux
14. Multi platform

Loss to add ons
7. Trackers - only cross site; privacy extensions can block trackers from the sites you allow
8. Spam payload - only downloads if scripts allowed; hosts blacklists, script blocking whitelists
9. Phish payload - double counting; same as 8
15. Easy data edit - extensions are even easier to use (auto update, real time modification, within the browser)
17. What? uBlock Origin has the option of using hosts; clear win over your tool

Wins to hosts
16. More efficient
18. Less resources - double count, see above

Edge cases that involve replacing Domain Name Service with a host file
3. DynDNS - how do you populate your host list? Lookups. Still vulnerable. Use OpenVPN, properly configured.
5. Downed - most people don't live in the internet equivalent of the third world
6. Poisoned - as above
11. Trackers - there might be some cases where people don't want requests logged and aren't otherwise anonymising their requests
12. Blocks - yeah. If you need to get to illegal sites.

Overstated or misleading
4. DGA - utter bullshit. You can only block a DGA by exhaustively listing every file it generates, an then only after it's been found and analysed. uBlock Origin, for eg. can use regex so you can block the domains a DGA may generate based on a few samples.

No idea
10. No idea what 'caps' is supposed to be
13. What?

That's three draws, five losses, two wins and five edge cases. You have one false/misleading claim and two that I have no idea about (I've ignored where you've padded the list by claiming the same thing more than once).

Your 'wins' refer to saving ~60MB of RAM. On a system with 4GB of RAM, that's 1.5%. On 8GB and up it's less than 1%. For most people, under most circumstances the resource difference is utterly trivial and has been for years. You are stuck in the past where saving 60MB was a significant performance gain. These days, my time is more constrained than memory. I'll happily trade a couple of per cent of my system resources for a saving in time and usability. I do not care that your method uses less resources. The difference stopped being meaningful years ago.

A host file is useful if there are problems with the Dynamic Name Service. But, again, for most users this is simply never an issue. It's an edge case at best.

Extras
ClarityRay - Bullshit. You've been making this claim for years with nothing to back it up. You make your claim based on _their_ claims. I cannot find a single site that uses it, detects an ad-blocker and restricts content. The ClarityRay webpage doesn't react to my use of uBlock Origin. The only site I could find that is/was supposed to use it is a French TV network and it didn't react to my use of uBlock Origin.

Adblock Plus - yes, the author of the software chose to do something that undermines the entire point of the software. It says nothing about ad blockers, specifically, that doesn't apply equally to any software, including yours.

superuser.com link

Blocking via the host file is almost certainly going to be faster just because it's much more limited in capability ...

A reasonably powerful computer probably won't have much of a problem with a real ad blocker ...

The host file is almost certainly faster seeing as it is baked into the OS and is doing something quite simple. On the other hand, Adblock probably stops more ads and requires less upkeep.

I agree completely with the sentiments expressed, above. Thanks for the link. (You didn't really read them, did you? You just saw a couple of people saying 'using a host file is faster' and stopped there?)

YT

You're dismantling yourself YETI

[Anonymous Coward]

WRONG on all these accounts:

Hosts whitelist hardcode speedup too

Hosts operate in faster kernelmode vs. slow usermode addons (wildcard's? Hosts parse faster vs. addons BEFORE they ever do as part of IP stack).

My program updates automatically

Hosts stop adscript efficiently vs. NoScript (& by far vs. adblock/ublock) no cpu & I/O waste - hosts block adservers outright 1 step beforehand

Few run their own ads!

My program backup's @ end run. Don't restart it FINALHOSTS.TXT is it. A restart erases it.

I do "layered-security" EFFICIENTLY (vs. "so-called 'solutions'" + their security bugs galore & slowing you - hosts speed you up 2 ways).

* Don't put words in my mouth (put YOUR WORDS in BACK IN YOUR MOUTH eating THEM https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9986237&cid=53480147/

APK

P.S.=> YOU TRYING TO TELL US INFERIOR INEFFICIENT addons = BETTER vs. hosts WHEN addons DO LESS/USE MORE? https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53512319/

Re:You're dismantling yourself YETI

[another_twilight]

You're dismantling yourself YETI

Only you think so, and that's only because you cannot read and ignore the points that are made. You've addressed nothing in my posts, just repeated your usual claims.

The speedup of resolving a name via a hosts whitelist vs DNS cache is below human perception in most cases. The difference between operating in kernelmode vs usermode is imperceptible in most cases. You keep ignoring the fact that your big selling point - increased efficiency and speed is trivial for most users these days. It's unnoticeable. It's a couple of percent of system resources, or less. It's technically faster, but it _just_ _doesn't_ _matter_. Did you read that? Do you understand what I am saying? Feel free to disagree. Reason with me. Present a counter argument, or examples where it does matter. Or ignore this and concede the point. Again.

Your program updates automatically, but the host file does not. I would have to launch your program to edit the file each time I want to browse. Add ons not only update each time I open my browser, they also update their lists. Even while I am browsing. I don't have to do anything. That's me having to do 'less'. Win to add ons.

Hostfiles do not stop scripts for sites you want to visit and hence haven't blocked. It cannot stop a script from a site that you have not yet added as being bad. A script blocker will stop both. You admit that your browser is set to stop scripts. This is the fundamental difference between whitelisting and blacklisting and is another thing you refuse to address. Blacklisting, alone, is not enough. Please address this, or concede the point. Again.

Few run their own ads!

Hooray, I'm nearly safe.

My program backup's @ end run. Don't restart it FINALHOSTS.TXT is it. A restart erases it

So you can check when a particular entry was added? No? Didn't think so. Having a single copy that is overwritten on use is not a 'backup' in any but the most trivial of definitions.

Don't put words in my mouth

I think you are using phrases you don't quite understand, again.

YOU TRYING TO TELL US

There is no 'us', APK. I'm talking to you. Cheap rhetoric. Appeal to popularity by association.

addons = BETTER

Yes. Your 'more' is misleading, your 'less' is trivial.

You have a double standard. You obsessively list every minor advantage that your solution has over browser extensions but keep ignoring the things they do that a cannot. That's how you keep coming up with 'more'. It's not more, it's different. The things that extensions allow me to do are more useful to me than the things they cannot do that a hostfile can. I argue that this is also true for most users, as 'most' approaches 'all'.

The additional resources that are used to achieve this are literally unnoticeable they are so slight, so the fact that your solution uses even 'less' is moot.

This is the argument. The 'less' you claim is meaningless in use and the 'more' only exists if you ignore the things add ons can do that a host file cannot. So, can you actually stop chanting your pet phrases and address these points, or are you, once again, going to -

a) fall back on claiming some really cool people think that you are right;
b) repeating yourself while claiming you are 'dismantling' my arguments;
or
c) ignoring me, and moving straight to insulting me and claiming victory.

I wait with bated breath,

YT

Game servers

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like teenagers DDoSing game servers.

Hosts hardcodes bypass ISP transparent proxy

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Bypassing DNS (95++% of time I spend time @ hosts hardcoded favs) never activating ISP transparent dns proxy minus dns requests @ all!

* More efficiently from a single file part of your IP stack vs. "Bolting on 'MoAr'" in DNS locally riddled w/ security + inefficiency bugs https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9007355&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=51969075/ wasting power.

APK

P.S.=> APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-4 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/

Puts your fav sites where you spend most time @ TOP of hosts cached w/ faster lookup in local system RAM @ KERNELMODE speed/efficiency from diskcache to IP stack vs. remote DNS (far slower) - no context switch to slow usermode (FASTER, safer & more reliable resolution) as I SUPER-RARELY MAKE DNS CALLS... apk

Re:Hosts hardcodes bypass ISP transparent proxy

[Anonymous Coward]

Bypassing DNS (95++% of [the] time

and

I SUPER-RARELY MAKE DNS CALLS

And are vulnerable for the remaining 5--%. Or you could actually use a solution that is 100% effective.

You keep shifting the goal posts. When your hosts file "does more", no matter how much that more is made up of edge cases or trivial resource savings, you claim it's all about what does the most. When someone suggests a solution that is 100% effective, vs your "95++%", then it's about how much faster your implementation is (usability) and not about which does "more".

More efficiently

Efficiency from the point of view of system resources. Which are, typically, in the order of a single digit percent of total. At the cost of extra time (having to use a tool or manually edit the hosts file each time I want to use the internet). You conveniently omit counting your own tool from the "Bolting on 'MoAr'" assessment. That's a non-integrated 3rd party application that I would have to run each time I want to use the internet (or each day). Maybe that's a workflow that you've grown comfortable with, over the years, but I assure you I would much rather my tools integrate with my browser.

YT

Mine's better vs. competition

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Hostsman = nearest feature-wise doesn't do hardcoded fav speedup (makes you safer too) & != 64-bit (mine is).

I wrote all its code (not using SQLite db as hostman did) so I have no dependencies on others' work & bugs in SQLite can't affect it + mine's only 1 moving part single executable self-contained design!

I do a LOT of filtering in mine, results = perfect (valuing accuracy vs. speed as the output hosts file IS what counts).

I've been falsely accused here MANY times of my ware being 'malware' (when it's anything but & prevents that better vs. anything else) so I put up proof it's not vs. "ne'er-do-well" unidentifiable trolls like you

Malwarebytes' Steven Burn has VERIFIED my sourcecode in all versions too!

APK

P.S.=> You stalk me by unidentifiable ac posts like now again & defeat yourselves mostly via YOUR technical mistakes + I show superiority of hosts vs. other inferior inefficient solutions galore... apk

Re:Mine's better vs. competition

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you provide a link to the Malwarebytes' endorsement? The one you normally provide goes to a private forum. I've signed up, but it's still locked.
Is there a Google cache?

Thanks

Bullshit lie from unidentifiable ac, lol!

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: My code & filters = verified by Malwarebytes' Steven Burn (we made filters together) & not even nice try on that bs!

APK

P.S.=> You're really, Really, REALLY desperate now, aren't you? Obviously as "you & yours" are LOSING badly to me @ every turn, lol... apk

Shootin yer lies down unidentifiable ac troll

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: My code & filters = verified by Malwarebytes' Steven Burn (we made filters together) & it draws blocking data only from remote reputable sources vs. threats online of most all kinds - otherwise?

YOU supply hardcodes that are NOT blockers yourself using it (for getting to sites faster & more reliably)

APK

P.S.=> You're really, Really, REALLY desperate now, aren't you? Obviously as "you & yours" are LOSING badly to me @ every turn, lol... apk

Misleading Title/Summary

[coofercat]

So as I read this, you get busted for *using* a botnet, not just renting one. If you fancy renting a botnet to dos yourself to collect the IPs so you contact all the participants to help them fix their stuff, I think you'd be okay ;-)

Re:Misleading Title/Summary

[Anonymous Coward]

No you would still be committing a felony per each computer in the botnet that you did not have permission to access. If the botnet contained 100,000 iot devices or pcs thats 100,000 counts of accessing a computer without permission each one carrying a 10 year maximum. Or up to 1,000,000 years in prison.

Re: pipes and their dreams

[Phusion]

Hi there, I don't have any comment on this argument, but your sig rubbed me the wrong way. I BELIEVE the phrase "pipe dream" is a reference to opium, not hallucinogens. Opium users nod out into a dreamy state, I've seen one picture from China Town in SF in the early 1900's of an opium cart that says "Dreams $5" or something like that... anyway, carry on.

Means everything: I got backing, you don't

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject unidentifiable troll Mr. CRY of the "ne'er-do-well": You've done nothing yourself - I've done well.

Again, you don't which proves you ARE a "sensitive snowflake" DO NOTHING loser trying to belittle what I can prove about myself validly & you can't about yourself, get it?

APK

P.S.=> Make me laugh more scumbag - talk about proving my point above in this quote of yours:

"Even if that meant anything" - by UNIDENTIFIABLE Anonymous "ne'er-do-well" on Sunday December 18, 2016 @10:34PM (#53511567)

See subject, explains it all to a ZERO like you... apk

Re:Means everything: I got backing, you don't

[Anonymous Coward]

Means everything

Your saying so doesn't make it so.

unidentifiable troll

I'm as identifiable as you, and criticism isn't trolling just because you say it is.

which proves you ARE a "sensitive snowflake"

It's kind of amusing the way you use things you know are insults, but don't really understand.

See subject, explains it all

No, once again you've read a couple of words but missed the point.

YT

What of your multiple fails vs. me?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject UNIDENTIFIABLE truly cowardly "ne'er-do-well" mere talker despite you having many sockpuppets for "downmodpoint" abuse - I'm a doer & can prove it showing good things about myself or work I've done! You? Can't & never will be able to & you know it.

APK

P.S.=> You're nothing but trash: You all tend to 'brag' on being "superior registered 'lusers'" so why aren't you using one of your MANY SOCKPUPPETS ALTER-EGOS you have? Did I burn you in EVERY SINGLE ONE of them & you know I can toss your MULTIPLE FAILS vs. me back @ you? Yes, obviously (too obvious) & all your many sockpuppet "downmodpoints" are gone too (you're helpless minus those as you have squat for technical know-how)... apk

Re:" Krishanmakoto Sharma"

[Anonymous Coward]

A wall is not a dome. Cannon, catapult or trebuchet. Take your pick.

Even then, a wall that does not loop around and connect to itself is not an enclosure. Go around.

shoot him dead.

[Anonymous Coward]

Execute them, don't arrest them... same with the war on drugs... You do what the phillipines are doing. Kill the users and dealers.

Re:shoot him dead.

[Anonymous Coward]

In a war, there is only one way to win... complete and utter surrender of the other side... anything else just drags things on.

I let others do the talking for me... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53510501/ "Rinse, Lather & Repeat", ok?

APK

P.S.=> You anonymous trolls are unbelievable, lol... apk

Re:I let others do the talking for me... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject

Yes. I know. Your post has a subject field that you abuse to post the first line of your 'argument' and then have to tell people that's where it is.

I let others do the talking for me...

Appeal to the people. I've already dismissed this.

You went to a Jesuit college. Didn't they teach you anything about logic?

Try again.

YT

It's more than you have AND?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Your saying so doesn't make it so." - by Anonymous Coward ""YT" on Monday December 19, 2016 @05:23PM (#53517219)

You say only I say it quoted above. This shows others say it for me (my program's good) https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53510501/ so you fail!

APK

P.S.=> See subject - That's the truly amusing thing here along w/ the fact you must "EAT YOUR WORDS" quoted above again, lol! apk

Logic = search for truth (facts = truth)

[Anonymous Coward]

FACT: Hosts' speed superiority vs addons http://superuser.com/questions/686041/which-leads-to-faster-browsing-an-ad-blocker-or-an-edited-hosts-file/

FACT: My program updates hosts for users as they see fit!

FACT: Addons = 100++'s of mb. Hosts = far smaller.

FACT: Hosts do FAR MORE for FAR LESS & NOT trivial!

FACT: Nearly noone runs their own ads!

FACT: As long host entries block threats & speeds me up (w/ far less resource use & doing more too) & I can easily edit entries in & out of hosts (especially vs. addon regex)?

See subject - I took formal logic during Comp. Sci. degreework - truth tables etc., did you? Obviously not. You use "forums ILLOGIC logic"!

APK

P.S.=> Keep EATING YOUR WORDS https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9986237&cid=53480147/ ...apk

Re:Logic = search for truth (facts = truth)

[Anonymous Coward]

FACT: Hosts' speed superiority ...

Learn to read. A host file might be faster but it is by such a small amount that it is irrelevant. Next.

FACT: My program updates hosts for users as they see fit!

Yes. It's not automatic. That's what I said. Next.

FACT: Addons = 100++'s of mb. Hosts = far smaller.

Yes. But on a system with even 4GB of RAM that's a single digit percentage of total resources. It's trivial. More importantly, those resources are doing things your 'solution' can't. Like updating automatically. Next.

FACT: Hosts do FAR MORE for FAR LESS & NOT trivial!

You keep saying that, but it's simply not true. Your 'solution' does some things that add-ons don't. Add-ons do some things a host file cannot. There's no 'more' you illiterate twonk. You've ignored anything too hard to answer and are just repeating yourself. Argument from repetition. Logical fallacy. You fail and are tedious. Next.

FACT: Nearly noone runs their own ads!

Great. Then with your solution, I'll be nearly safe. Next.

Logic = search for truth

Utter crap. Logic is reasoning within a set of rules or principles. In as much as it involves 'truth' it is within that framework. You don't get to make up your own definitions, although that would explain your inability to read and comprehend.

I took formal logic during Comp. Sci. degreework - truth tables etc., did you?

Yes. 1989-1991 during a B.Sc. Unlike you I understand the difference between formal logic (what we both studied in computer science) and informal logic (the study of natural language arguments). Formal logic is not applicable here. Do you even remember what it was about? How the hell do you think it applies here? Or do you think that because you did something called 'logic', that all your reasoning is somehow perfect? I even provided links to the fallacies that you are using. Did you bother following them? You seem to think that people should follow your link spam, do you return the courtesy? Dear gods your narcissism is incredible.

facts = truth

Don't get me started.

I see you chose option b), above - repeating yourself while claiming to win.

I'll see you in another thread, no doubt.
Until then, I remain,

YT

DNS = inefficient, slower & security issue rid

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & see 100's of DNS issues in security + resource overuse in 18 categories enumerated here (hosts have no such issues & = faster vs. remote DNS, use less power vs. locally installed DNS doing more for less w/ what you have natively already in Windows) https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9007355&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=51969075/

* Keep failing in 'championing' adds (that don't work 'souled-out' to advertisers to NOT DO THE 1 JOB THEY HAVE http://www.businessinsider.com/google-microsoft-amazon-taboola-pay-adblock-plus-to-stop-blocking-their-ads-2015-2/ & DNS (see link of its faults in security & efficiency + speed above).

APK

P.S.=> Gb's of memory used by DNS is listed in the 1st link above too - even after 20++ yrs. building my hosts file & NOT DELETING ENTRIES (test to see how big it is before performance hits) I'm only into the MB range (many orders of magnitude less)... apk

I use verifiable facts, you don't... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

"Your saying so doesn't make it so." - by Anonymous Coward ""YT" on Monday December 19, 2016 @05:23PM (#53517219)

See my subject proof's in this link (my program's good) https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53510501/ so you fail denying fact/truth & logic = the SEARCH FOR TRUTH!

* What've YOU got other than your forums "ILLOGIC logic"?

Eating your words is what https://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9995967&cid=53487497/

APK

P.S.=> I've taken & done well in formal logic (truth tables etc.) - have you? Obviously not as I support my statements w/ reputable sources & information (you don't using forums "ILLOGIC LOGIC")... apk

You came here stalking me liar

[Anonymous Coward]

"So you can stalk me from thread to thread crowing about your 'victory'?" - by UNIDENTIFIABLE Anonymous Coward "YETI" WHO HAS A REGISTERED 'luser' ACCOUNT on Monday December 19, 2016 @04:58PM (#53517015)

Who posted here 1st? Me. You came in after EATING YOUR WORDS vs. me butthurt after U failed https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9986237&cid=53480147/

You said I should use a registered 'luser' account & you have one - WHY DON"T YOU TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE?

(LOL - I truly KNOW why - I've handed you YOUR ASS before like in the link above MANY times so you don't dare or I'll put your numerous past fails vs. me out again & LAUGH @ YOU EVEN MORE!)

APK

P.S.=> 20++ (more actually but I put out 20 in our debates I floor you in easily) /. users outnumber your "opinion" based on forums "ILLOGIC LOGIC" vs. fact they say my work's good https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53510501/ which I don't see ANYONE doing that for YOU anonymous TROLL... apk

Re:DNS = inefficient, slower & security issue

[Anonymous Coward]

There's 4 billion (or so) IP addresses, let me know when you have a list of them. We can work on an updated list and IPv6 next :)

I don't use hosts that way & I use DNS

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: I use hosts for 50 hardcoded favorite sites of mine @ top of hosts & rest are blocked bad domains - for the SMALL amount of time I spend on other sites (sub 5%) I use OpenDNS (filters vs. threats & is kaminsky redirect flaw proofed).

* This is FASTER than calling out to remote DNS, lighter & safer than using locally installed DNS & not as trackable!

(Plus it actually lightens DNS request loads for OpenDNS (bonus))

APK

P.S.=> Get it? apk

WRONG on all these accounts "YETI"

[Anonymous Coward]

Bad sites/fastflux != stopped by addons (they only stop ads) & hosts = more multiplatform (If it has a std. BSD IP stack it has hosts, not everything can run addons & they certainly aren't native).

Trackers in DNS requestlogs/transparent IP proxies/spam-phish != stopped by addons (addons only work on ads ^ phish/spam that's HTML mail - out of browser email clients).

Easier to edit hosts (simple to understand) vs. regex addon rules.

UBlock doesn't provide DNS benefits (bypass it for security + speed & evading dns level tracking).

Dynamic DNS based botnets!

DNS goes down a lot. Hosts protect vs. it.

DNS gets redirect poisoned. 99.999% of ISP dns servers != protected vs. kaminsky redirect (like OpenDNS).

Blocks = vs. bad sites/ads infecting you. Same on trackers (either ad based scripted ones or dns ones).

DGA botnet lists exist updating constantly.

ClarityRay stops addons by detecting them dumping them from browsers. Can't do it to hosts.

APK

P.S.=> Hosts do more for less... apk

Hosts do far more for far less & wrong again

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes hosts = faster & do a LOT more for lots less. GB for DNS vs. MB for hosts = orders of magnitude diff hosts wins (same for addons). Hosts do more vs. addons for less. Hosts updates are automatic & editing their lists/rules is easier by far vs. regex.

If you understand CS how could you blunder so much per the above & here too https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53529489/ ?

APK

P.S.=> I've seen & defeated your "points" many times before you tried them... apk

I shot you to pieces YETI

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & these links as the proof of your multiple fails eating your words https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53522361/ , https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53529489/ , https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53529685/ , https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53522439/ , https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10010777&cid=53529327/ but most of all WHERE YOU HAD TO EAT YOUR WORDS https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9986237&cid=53480147/

APK

P.S.=> You're a waste of time & life... apk

Unidentifiable 'hero' "YeTi" & poor diet!

[Anonymous Coward]

"YeTi"'s dying of malnutrition: "EATING YOUR WORDS" != good nutrition (lmao) https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9986237&cid=53480147/ & he's still 'butthurt' (has to sleep on his yellow belly or he'll mess up his sheets, lol) & 'twolling me' like the psycho he is!

* YeTi - Don't start things you can't finish (& why not let ME take a poke @ your jaw since you like 'poking' others ('twolling' punk) as you say... ok?

APK

P.S.=> I don't think you get it - when you start crap w/ me IT MAKES ME HAPPY to DEFEND MYSELF w/ facts & truth - not CONTINUAL FAILS like you experience vs. me (most recent to date so far) https://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10024927&cid=53535385/ & https://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10024927&cid=53535559/ twice today... lol!

... apk