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Tesla Delivered Over 76,000 Vehicles In 2016, Falling Slightly Short of Goal (theverge.com)
Tesla delivered 76,230 electric vehicles in 2016, falling just shy of its goal of delivering 80,000 cars for the year. The electric carmaker claimed that "short-term production challenges" starting at the end of October were to blame for the shipment of fewer vehicles than anticipated. The Verge reports: Tesla said the transition to new Autopilot hardware resulted in the company's vehicle production being "weighted more heavily towards the end of the quarter than we had originally planned." In total, about 2,750 Tesla vehicles missed being counted as deliveries in the fourth quarter of 2016, which the company ascribes to "last-minute delays in transport or because the customer was unable to physically take delivery." Tesla said that even though those sales were counted toward 2016, the deliveries were not because the customers did not physically take possession of their cars. Tesla says about 6,450 vehicles are still in transit, and that their deliveries will be counted toward the first quarter of 2017. While it fell short on delivery, Tesla was able to beat its production rate for 2015. Tesla said it produced 24,882 vehicles in the fourth quarter of 2016, resulting in a total of 83,922 vehicles produced in 2016. This was an increase of 64 percent from 2015. Vehicle demand in Q4 was particularly strong, Tesla says. Net orders for Model S and X, which were an all-time record, were 52 percent higher than Q4 2015 and 24 percent higher than the company's previous record quarter in Q3 2016. "We were ultimately able to recover and hit our production goal, but the delay in production resulted in challenges that impacted quarterly deliveries, including, among other things, cars missing shipping cutoffs for Europe and Asia," the company says. "Although we tried to recover these deliveries and expedite others by the end of the quarter, time ran out before we could deliver all customer cars."
3 years ago they predicted 100,000 in 2016
http://insideevs.com/tesla-pro...
In January of 2016 they were projecting over 3,200
http://www.fool.com/investing/...
Seems like Tesla did pretty well against an aggressive target. I'm impressed, though I admittedly know next to nothing about the auto industry.
If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, hump its leg.
Are they yet making a profit on each sold?
Very likely but how much is uncertain and their infrastructure spending on growth means they'll bleed quite a bit of red ink for a few years yet.
But they do need to get that under control, especially by improving the build quality and making cars that are easier to assemble & repair.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Maybe you should pull that $1000 and go buy a Chevrolet Bolt. Its available now, has the same range and.... all the panel gaps & trim will line-up.
You can't run the numbers because you don't have the future cost of gasoline.
I am not a hater of EV technology but if your going to really make a dent you can't cater to the 1%. The people who could really benefit from EV technology are not the 1% it's the rest of us. Is Tesla trying to serve everyone? Or just a few? When Henry Ford made history he was making a vehicle for the masses.
The S and X are generally considered to have worse interiors than other 100k+ cars.
battery can account for one-third of the price of the car, which is why something like the Nissan Leaf or Fiat 500e costs about $30,000, while offering only about 100 miles of range. But those costs are falling, fast. Between 2010 and 2015, the average cost per kilowatt hour (kWh) dropped 65 percent, from $1,000 to $350, according to a recent report from Bloomberg New Energy Finance. âoeBy 2022,â the report says, âoethe unsubsidized total cost of ownership of [battery electric vehicles] will fall below that of an internal combustion engine vehicle.â (Wired, 2015)
So they failed my personal goal.
There are hundreds of thousands of cars selling in that segment (high-end Porsches, Mercedes Benz, BMW, etc.). I can only think of one that seats 5 comfortably and does 0-60 in 2.5s...and that's why Tesla is cleaning up in that segment.
Different people care about different things, and everyone can spend their money on whatever they want. The only ROI that matters for personal purchases is whether the buyer thinks they got their money's worth.
For example, do you believe you got your money's worth on that "degree" from University of Phoenix? Then good for you.
Depends on what you view as the investment and the return. From my perspective (as someone who is considering buying one as soon as I'm certain that they've gotten most of the kinks out of the Model X), energy costs are only part of the equation.
But just to confirm your assertion, assuming an installed cost of $3.50 per watt, 8 full-sun-equivalent hours per day, and a 40-year solar panel life (typical for current-generation panels), that comes to about 2.9 cents per kWh. A Tesla goes about 3 miles per kWh, which means this comes out to only about 0.96 cents per mile. At $2 per gallon, a similar vehicle gets about 22-28 MPG. Let's go with 30 as a best-case estimate. That's almost 7 cents per mile. So if you build your own solar farm, the Tesla will cost you a quarter as much per mile as gasoline even at current prices. Let's say that this costs you a $50,000 premium in the cost of the vehicle. The 5.7 cents per mile you save won't cause you to break even until you cross the 875k mile mark. If you recompute with Bay Area gasoline prices averaging more like $3 per gallon, it's more like 550,000 miles, which is maybe plausible for an EV.
On the other hand, your gasoline-powered vehicle will keel over long before that break-even point, whereas an electric vehicle might actually reach that number of miles, because there are a lot fewer moving parts. So if you have to factor in the cost of a second gasoline-powered car over that same time period, the value equation changes considerably, because that $50k premium is now a $25k premium, and the break-even point is at 275–438k miles, which starts to sound a lot more likely.
And that value proposition still ignores several other important factors:
All of these things have some value, whether in terms of saved time, saving the planet, etc. How much those savings are worth to you tends to be directly proportional to the length of your commute.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Rank in Luxury Hybrid and Electric Vehicles
1. Tesla Model S
$72,700 - $110,700
(Beating out the)
2. BMW i8
$141,695
The Tesla Model S has benefited from constant revisions throughout its life cycle, but its looks have stayed almost exactly the same since it was introduced in 2012. That finally changes with an update for the 2017 Model S that brings it in line with the recently revealed Model 3 sedan and the Model X crossover. Gone is the faux front grille, which is replaced by a new front fascia with slightly reshaped headlights and a sleeker, more streamlined look.
Tesla also claims increased driving range for the 90D and P90D models but doesnâ(TM)t cite any mechanical changes that account for the improved numbers. The 90D, with its 90-kWh battery, improves from 270 miles to 294 miles on a full charge, while the P90D sees range go from 253 miles to 270 miles. These numbers havenâ(TM)t yet been published on the EPAâ(TM)s website, although Teslaâ(TM)s own site says theyâ(TM)re EPA-official. ...newly standard 48-amp onboard charger that replaces the previous modelâ(TM)s 40-amp charger. Tesla says it enables quicker charging than before when connected to a 240-volt NEMA 14-50 power outlet or to a Tesla Wall Connector. We donâ(TM)t have exact numbers for the new charger, but the old 40-amp system was estimated to deliver 29 miles of range per hour of charge, so expect more than 30 miles per hour for the new car. This change wonâ(TM)t affect the amount of time it takes to juice up with Teslaâ(TM)s Supercharger network of quick chargers. (April, 2016)
You know, most companies make a profit if they can discount things like growth costs, capital expenditures, tooling costs, etc. The problem is - with GAAP you can't discount that stuff. You can talk about gross profit - but net profit (or at the very least EBITDA) is well-defined and means you cannot ignore those costs that Tesla is so fond of downplaying as "not important". Meaning that - even with the Government-mandated funds transfers from other car companies to Tesla, and the subsidies to Tesla, and the big buyer's subsidies from the Government - they still lose money.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
By Tesla's own calculations, gas savings will net you slightly over $1000 per year. That's nowhere near to justify a $90K price tag, unless you are comparing to an $80K luxury SUV. On a flip side, Model X might make sense for commercial use, where it can easily hit the insane mileage you quoted within its lifetime.
500k miles really shouldn't be considered insane mileage. I know plenty of people who have gotten well over 300k on internal-combustion-based vehicles. Mind you, none of them would pass California emissions, but then again, EVs don't have that problem. They don't have transmissions (one of the weak points of ICE designs and one of the most commonly repaired components) or oxygen sensors or Nox sensors or fuel injectors or any of the other crap that makes ICE designs fail early and often. Unless the undercarriage rusts out, I can't imagine any reason that an EV wouldn't last 500k miles, though you'd probably have to replace the battery at least once. :-)
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
To be fair, that doesn't matter to a lot of people. You want a car to work, period. If you have to get it fixed it's a pain in the ass, even if it's free.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
You want a car to work, period. If you have to get it fixed it's a pain in the ass, even if it's free.
I'm not sure what Tesla has for a repair policy but if you take in a MINI to get fixed you can get a free loaner car, that you keep and use as long as your car is being fixed... That takes away a lot of the hassle of repairs.
Also Tesla it seems like could do much more than most auto makers in the way of remote diagnostics, so they could save you a a trip if you really didn't need to come in.
As Tesla expands one thing they could do to improve service is to offer remote technical support for local auto shops, so that you could take it to a local place to have something simple addressed and still have someone who really knew what there were doing overseeing the work. Maybe even offer Tesla certification for smaller auto repair shops.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
like there are NO ice car fires WHATSOEVER... right
But not better than other 100K+ cars that can do 0-60 in 2.5. It outperforms cars that cost several times more AND STILL seats 5. Performance will win the long game in the US market. The same will be seen in the trucking industry soon. The low RPM torque of electric motors will be a big boon for heavy vehicles.
Are you sure? I thought it was the model X
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
It's about the same price as its competitors (such as a fully loaded 7 series BMW).
It isn't an investment in saving on gas. It's a "I hate the Gas Station and never drive more than 200 miles a day" car for people in the $80k+ segment. Nobody is saving money on a Tesla, but plenty are getting a car that better meets their needs.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
The S and X are generally considered to have worse interiors than other 100k+ cars.
I heard that they recently hired a new design team for their interiors, so they clearly know about the problem and are working to improve.
Interior design is not the only factor that attracts people to buy a one car type over another, not even in the 100k segment of the market. Tesla has several other points in its favour that are sufficient to outweigh the issues with the interiors, at least for some buyers. That gives Tesla enough customers right now that it can sell all the cars it can build. As it expands capacity, it will need to work on the interiors to increase its appeal, but as I noted, they are already working on that.
Oh come on.Tesla is about the geekiest company in the world and one that is doing a hell of a lot of interesting things. Of course we're interested! I was just googling yesterday to see if the latest production numbers were out.
No object that contains half a ton of lithium cells could ever be considered to be "completely green".
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
Few cars have a positive return on investment but that's OK because most people buy a car for transportation not as an investment.
What about the government mandated funds transfers propping up the gasoline car industry? Pretty sure tax subsidies to oil companies far outweigh subsidies going to incentivize EVs.
Or electricity
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Unless you work more than 125 miles or so from home, it's all good. More than 250 miles of range on a full charge will get you back home for more juice.
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
Really? Not some metrics of performance? Not in the fact that you don't need to fill the tank?
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
I don't believe the claim that "solar photo-voltaic electricity is now less expensive than grid electricity" as bare fact. This all sounds *great*, but when I ran the numbers on a solar installation at my house, I was disappointed. I needed to lay out $23k capital cost, to generate slightly over $600 of electricity per year. Even with generous incentives, my break-even point on the installation was at around 11 years, assuming no other costs on my end. One possible cost that was not included was that of cleaning off the arrays, which would be about $150/year as a service (which really cuts into the net value of the $600/year electricity being generated). If I need to re-roof my house within the lifetime of the system, I had a several thousand dollar cost to de-install the panels, then re-install them.
The other challenge was that this installation was not sufficient to put me "off the grid," so I still needed to buy electricity in lean times (and to "sell" electricity in good times). However, the current rates structures and incentives in my area ignore the cost to the electric utility of maintaining the distribution grid. As the percentage of homeowners generating their own solar power increases, the cost of utility-generated electricity will need to increase as well, in order for the utilities to cover the cost of maintaining the grid (alternatively, people will have to pay a "grid connection fee" that will be substantial). Distributed power generation is a great idea, but too many folks are ignoring the cost of the utility system that still needs to be in place. This ignorance is sustainable at low self-generation adoption rates, but will become unattainable as adoption rates rise into a significant fraction of the utility's consumer base. Sort of like how some electric car owners are surprised when they are charged additional registration fees (over gasoline vehicles) because the existing road maintenance cost recovery is through gasoline taxes that electric vehicles are sidestepping.
I'm not slamming the idea of distributed generation, and I dearly want to have my own solar-photovoltaic generation capability, but the business case for the individual homeowner is still not in favor of it. A few more years, some additional efficiencies, and maybe we'll be there. A radical increase in storage capability would really help.
suvsux.org is fucked since when? It was a great and very informative site...
Is it any worse than driving around with a tank full of flammable liquid in a car powered by explosions?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Why has the Model S get glowing reviews?
Is there really nothing objectively interesting about a whisper quiet luxury sedan that does a smooth 0-60 in 2.6s? How about one that never requires going to a gas station because you can charge it at home at night? How about the giant screen in the console? The excellent crash rating? Oh, right, those things are "not relevant" because you don't personally care about them.
This is standard /. zealotry. Start with the assumption that the only reason anyone could want anything from Tesla (or Apple, whatever) is because they are stupid fashion-craving SJW fanbois and then dismiss any legitimate reason one might favor those products as "not relevant".
Why can't you just accept that different people care about different things? It's their money, they can spend it however they want.
It's not complicated.
Deal with it.
profit? yes from the subsidies payed by taxpayers and flogging off carbon vouchers.
ho, you meant profit from actual sales of cars, nope not a fucking hope.
The subsidies are paid to the buyers, not to Tesla so that's out.
The carbon vouchers / ZEV credits help but not as much as one would think. Tesla isn't able to see them for full market value and the total ZEV sales are much smaller than the overall gross margin on the cars.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
There are plenty of people who don't mind spending that kind of money on a car. BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, Ferrari, nicely equipped pickup trucks - millions of vehicles sell every year in that price range. There is plenty of money to be made in that market even without selling cheap cars. As for charging stations - plenty of those around: https://www.plugshare.com/
I would only consider an electric car if I'd never have to charge it outside of home when I wasn't driving it.
I assume for most people that makes it a terrible only car in the household, but in a two car household, or a very rare road tripper, I'd call not getting gas an almost unbeatable perk.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Only in straight-line acceleration, but so does a kid's muscle car. It's not a luxury car in any way but "smoothness" (no engine vibration), and even there it's not much better than the high-end German cars. At both the $80k and $140k price-points, the competition is nicer inside, has more luxury car features, is more reliable, and handles much better.
The Model S keeps improving, and maybe one day it will reach parity in everything but cornering. Today, however, its primary appeal is "green". The Germans have been amazingly slow in bringing out competing models in that space. You'd expect at least a plug-in hybrid from Mercedes by now. Lot's of hybrids on the Japanese side, but still not plug-in hybrids or pure electrics in the luxury space, AFAIK.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Straight-line acceleration just isn't that important. The Tesla can't corner for shit, which makes the acceleration a bit dangerous. Seating 5 adults? Some people care I guess, but the interior is just less nice than any competing long wheelbase car (all of which have plenty of room). It compares quite poorly to something like an Audi S8+, Mercedes S-class AMG, or BWM Alpina B7.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Xenu will pull their asses out of the purifying fire.
New Zealanders are well balanced with a chip on each shoulder. One represents Australia, the other the rest of the world
I would appreciate it if someone could supply more accurate numbers but last I heard Eli's ventures in total and received just under 5 billion dollars in subsidies and last year they were losing 4k per car sold. I don't have that broken down between spacex and tesla.. Could you detail some of the subsidies you believe oil companies receive? I'm not aware of any oil company specific subsidies other than some small business subsidies that don't really apply to the big boys. I'm happy to be proven wrong though.
Meaning that - even with the Government-mandated funds transfers from other car companies to Tesla, and the subsidies to Tesla, and the big buyer's subsidies from the Government - they still lose money
"Government-mandated funds transfers from other car companies to Tesla" - ZEV credits? That's not all that much money compared to their sales and Tesla gets ~50 cents on the dollar for those. Also, automakers can easily dodge those with compliance cars - I think.
"and the subsidies to Tesla" - which ones? The $5000 credit Fed credit? That's a tax credit to the buyer not to Tesla
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
> I don't believe the claim that "solar photo-voltaic electricity is now less expensive than grid electricity" as bare fact.
That only applies to utility-scale tracking arrays, not to residential: http://www.seia.org/research-r...
Rooftop residential fell to $2.98/Wdc in the 3rd quarter of 2016, while utility tracking came in at $1.21. Tracking systems tilt the panels to follow the Sun, and therefore produce more power than fixed ones on rooftops. So overall, the utility systems are about three times cheaper. Why are they so much less? It is much more efficient for a work crew on level ground than on a sloped roof, and they don't have to pack up their gear and drive to a new location every two dozen panels. You only need one big connection to the utility grid for a solar farm, rather than one for every house, so less wiring/transformers/etc.
At $1.21/W, and assuming the solar farm returns 8% annually and produces for 2000 hours/year, the net cost is $0.0484/kWh, which is competitive with wind and natural gas.
The batteries can be recycled, and the batter factory will be solar powered. How is that not green?
Depends on whether the wind chill is below -20F/-30C/243K.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Thank-you for your insight. That makes sense; my potential small rooftop solar system was priced at $3.72/Wdc, with some wiggle room in the price as indicated by the installer when I balked. I can see where a large utility system would have a lower cost due to economies of scale, tracking systems, etc.
I'm curious as to how the cost of land affects the utility cost, however. In a home rooftop situation, there is no cost for the land since its going on top of the structure that is already on the land. But a utility would need to acquire (buy/lease) a large chunk of land for a decent size solar farm, and to pay taxes on that land on a recurring basis. A wind farm also needs a large chunk of land. Seems like this might be a significant cost factor that isn't there for plants using carbon-based fuels.
"Tesla isn't able to see them for full market value"
Sell, not see.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
And those tax subsidies are?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Between $12,500 and $35,000 per car in ZEV credits - forced subsidies by other manufacturers. In 2012 ZEV credits were at least $119 million in the first half of the year. That's not insignificant income. And Tesla STILL loses money with that kind of credit.
As far as the Federal (and State, at least in CA) buyer's credit goes - why does Tesla advertise the subsidized price? Because it's easier to list as "starts at under $70,000" when you add in the credit on a $75,000 car.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
True. And every automaker has lemons. I'd never buy a car from Ford or GM, for example. Been there. Never again. As for electric vehicles generally, the Nissan Leaf is gaining a reputation as the car mechanics never see because they so rarely ever need one. All the stuff that breaks or requires maintenance in regular cars doesn't even exist in electric cars: no belts (cam, alternator, fan etc) no radiator (so no coolant to leak), no fan, no oil or spark plugs because no combustion, no gearbox or transmission fluid because the electric motors are more powerful then gas motors, so don't need gears to amplify the torque......An electric motors are incredibly durable. There is almost nothing to break in a pure EV. I own one. I'll never go back to a gas or diesel car.
Only boring people are ever bored.
I've had two minor issues with my Tesla. They drive a loaner Tesla to my office, drive my car to the service center, and then swap back again. No skin off my back so no big deal.
It won't stay that way.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.