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Microsoft: Windows 7 Does Not Meet the Demands of Modern Technology; Recommends Windows 10 (neowin.net)

Posted by msmash on from the things-Microsoft-says dept.

In a blog post, Microsoft says that continued usage of Windows 7 increases maintenance and operating costs for businesses. Furthermore, time is needlessly wasted on combating malware attacks that could have been avoided by upgrading to Windows 10. A report on Neowin adds: Microsoft also says that many hardware manufacturers do not provide drivers for Windows 7 any longer, and many developers and companies refrain from releasing programs on the outdated operating system. Markus Nitschke, Head of Windows at Microsoft Germany, had the following to say about Windows 7: "Today, it [Windows 7] does not meet the requirements of modern technology, nor the high security requirements of IT departments. As early as in Windows XP, we saw that companies should take early steps to avoid future risks or costs. With Windows 10, we offer our customers the highest level of security and functionality at the cutting edge.

45 of 503 comments (clear)

  1. Options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1) Use Windows 7 and maybe get infected with malware.

    or

    2) Use Windows 10 and definitely have malware built right in.

    1. Re:Options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Win7 doesn't have the builtin access that our modern society needs to make sure you're not guilty of independent thought.

    2. Re:Options by bmo · · Score: 5, Informative

      The telemetry malware has been backported to 7.

      --
      BMO

    3. Re:Options by Vlad_the_Inhaler · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My experience of Windows 10 updates is that they fully qualify as malware. They break things, screw up settings and you cannot even opt out.

      Windows 7 updates started trending that way a year ago - when Microsoft started trying to force Windows 10 down collective throats. People started checking every non-security update before installing it. Googling each update in turn, I learned to classify most of the leading search results as uninformed bovine faeces, but with Microsoft's description on updates as being "This will fix a Windows problem" they were pretty much the only game in town so updates only went in when I was sure they would do no damage. The bottom line there was that the Windows 7 install base fractured - Microsoft could no longer make any assumptions at all as to which updates were installed and which ones not. Their fix to the problem they created was to bundle all updates together.
      Guess what, there is something in there which leads to an Install / Back Out loop on my remaining Windows 7 machine. Its patch-level is pretty much that of September. Microsoft can now say that Windows 10 would be more secure than that, but I get around it by treating it as a Windows XP installation - no emails and no browsing, just the two or three applications which were the reason I bought a Windows 7 machine in the first place.

      --
      Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
    4. Re:Options by yoshi_mon · · Score: 5, Informative

      While true they have come in the way of updates that can be uninstalled: https://gist.github.com/xvitaly/eafa75ed2cb79b3bd4e9

      Further Win 7 does not include any of the Win 8 UI elements. Trying to mash a touchscreen UI onto a desktop OS. As well as since you don't have the "tile" elements you are not being served ads nativly on your desktop or start menu. (They did sneak the Win 10 upgrade ad into the Systray but since there is no MS Edge for Win 7 you don't see the ads that pop up there on Win 7.)

      Win 7 does offer control on how your updates are done. Not a native option for non-enterprise Win 10 users.

      Finally I've yet to see any real hardware issues with Win 7 that this blog post purports. The very closest thing that I will say is that there are some new Win 8+ kernel SSD bits of functionality that you can't get with Win 7 at all. However those bits of functionality are not a dealbreaker to me, an avid SSD user, by any means.

      --

      Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
    5. Re:Options by blind+biker · · Score: 4, Informative

      Some of us have stopped updating Windows 7 for exactly this sort of reasons.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    6. Re:Options by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 5, Informative

      There are some things you can do. Opt out of Customer Experience Improvement and disable Diagnostics Tracking Service.
      http://windowsitpro.com/windows-10/how-turn-telemetry-windows-7-8-and-windows-10

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    7. Re: Options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Plug in your network cable.

    8. Re:Options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Windows 7 is still riddled with updates that slow things down and introduce additional dialogs to make Win10 'seem' faster.
      It started not long after Windows 10 was announced.

    9. Re:Options by mea_culpa · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think it goes further in that Microsoft is most likely intentionally sabotaging Windows 7. It seems that almost every Windows 7 computer I encounter has svchost.exe fully consuming a CPU core and consuming massive amounts of memory for no reason other than a failed update. This slows down the computer, consumes more energy, and makes it less secure because Windows Update is stuck in a perpetual loop. It isn't just one particular update causing the problem either, but several making correcting the issue tedious and often making the only solution to completely disable Windows Update.

      Check for yourself, open task manager as an administrator on any Windows 7 computer and more often than not you will see svchost.exe consuming a full CPU core and 1GB+ memory. Disable the Windows Update service and BITS and the problem goes away.

      I'm not at all surprised, updates to XP tended to cause problems when Vista came out. Micosoft's greatest competitor tends to be themselves.

    10. Re:Options by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Informative

      Its trivial to avoid the backporting to Windows 7, when it comes to Windows "all ur data belongs to us" 10? Many men much smarter than you or I have tried, none have succeeded to remove the spying from Windows 10, its just baked in too deep.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    11. Re:Options by mindwhip · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Privacy issues and rollout costs aside, Windows 10 doesn't have the business centric interface that works well in a work environment or sufficient compatibility with large amounts of legacy in house and third party applications that are business critical. Nor do most of the existing infrastructure and software management systems currently embedded in most medium to large companies work well with it. Most of these companies already have appropriate mitigations against malware, including desktop virus scanners, firewall controls including in-line scanning and content (executable) blocking, email scanning and filtering, backups, user access controls and active intrusion detection.

      Not to mention that most businesses would need to embark on a large scale hardware upgrade program to make windows 10 usable due to the lack of support for older hardware.

      --
      [The Universe] has gone offline.
    12. Re:Options by nateman1352 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think it goes further in that Microsoft is most likely intentionally sabotaging Windows 7. It seems that almost every Windows 7 computer I encounter has svchost.exe fully consuming a CPU core and consuming massive amounts of memory for no reason other than a failed update.

      This issue is because the dependency resolution algorithm in Windows Update is NP-hard. Its not a big deal until the number of updates gets large, and the dependency graph gets reset every time MSFT releases a service pack. Recently those resets have been done by the Win8-->Win8.1 upgrade and on Win10 every ~6 months they release a new OS image (at time of writing, Win10 TH1-->Win10 TH2-->Win10 RS1, pretty soon we will have RS2, and so on.) So the new Win10 model effectively masks the problem since they will have very frequent resets of the dependency graph now. Also, the cumulative updates further help reduce the growth of that graph. That doesn't help Win7 of course. What they really should do is release a Win7 SP2, reset the dependency graph, and make everyone's life easier, but with how aggressively they are pushing the Win10 upgrade you can bet they won't do anything to make life on Win7 easier.

    13. Re:Options by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Many people only use their computers to browse the web and access their email. An OS that only allows that would be criticized by /. for being too locked down and not general purpose, but for the vast majority of consumers this would be perfect.

      Isn't that basically Chromebooks?

  2. More like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...Windows 7 does not meet the needs of NSA, and Microsoft's marketing department, and whoever else they're selling all of your Windows 10 "telemetry" to.

    1. Re:More like... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Quite. I read this:

      Microsoft says that continued usage of Windows 7 increases maintenance and operating costs for businesses.

      and my immediate thought -- as someone who runs a few small IT businesses and is typing this on a Windows 7 PC -- was... well, it would be impolite to write my actual immediate thought at the time, so let's paraphrase it as "No, it doesn't".

      With Windows 10, we offer our customers the highest level of security and functionality at the cutting edge.

      The thing about cutting edges is that if you're not careful, you get hurt. And I have little interest in helping Microsoft's security at the expense of my own businesses.

      Oh, and just for completeness while we're debunking every single statement in TFS, we bought a final round of PC gear just in time to still get Windows 7 preinstalled, and so far the total number of devices or software products we wanted to use that haven't been compatible with it has been 0, and the number of malware infections we've had to deal with has also been 0. Literally the only thing we've had to do with drivers that was even slightly awkward was slipstreaming USB3 drivers in when installing because PCs tend to have all USB3 ports these days, in contrast to the numerous reports of driver compatibility problems with Windows 10. We're far more concerned about the potential security, reliability and confidentiality risks fundamentally built into Windows 10 than we are about any threats Windows 10 is supposedly better equipped to defend against than Windows 7.

      Ironically, the single most annoying and time-consuming thing in setting up those new PCs was applying the latest Windows security patches, because Microsoft have made such a dog's dinner of Windows Update in recent times that you basically have to use one of the alternative channels instead of the built-in one. And they want us to move to a new OS that relies on their update infrastructure and gives even less control over when it runs or what it does? Don't make me laugh.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  3. People agree that Windows 10 has better tech by Master5000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They just don't like being spied upon...

    1. Re:People agree that Windows 10 has better tech by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That and a mostly useless UI.
      Granted it is better than Windows 8. But I don't want a tablet OS for my Workstation.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  4. Microsoft id RIGHT by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 3, Funny

    Windows 10 DOES have more security for me than windows 7.

    An OS that you never load is truly the most secure.

    (I'm staing on win 7 and hoping that all my games get ported to linux)

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
  5. Translation: by surfdaddy · · Score: 5, Informative

    "We still REALLY want to get you on Win 10. Our tricks and coercions did not work very well so anything we can do to scare you over is a good thing".
      I suspect there is some truth to what they say, but the reality is that Windows 10 has had many unstable updates. Companies can turn these off or defer them, but the home user has no recourse. And for mission critical applications, Windows 10 has shown to be not reliable as you never know when an update that you can't eliminate might break your system.

  6. Not news by iampiti · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of course Microsoft is going to criticise their own old versions of Windows and recommend people to upgrade to the latest. Why is this even news?
    Also, their incredible insistence in people upgrading to 10 makes it clear they learnt with Windows XP that people don't rush to upgrade to a new OS if they're happy with what they have. Also that they had a plan to make a lot of money off Win 10 even if people upgraded for free (increased used of MS' services (bing, hotmail, their cloud service), data gathering, people buying from the Windows Store ...).
    And pretty obvious that "Windows 7 increases maintenance and operating costs for businesses" actually means "we'll make less money if you don't upgrade".
    Maybe if you gave people what they want people would willingly update to your latest OS instead of rejecting it even when given away for free.
    Make a Windows 7 with the internals of 10 and I'll upgrade.

  7. Have they fixed Windows Updates yet? by taustin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Or does it still open 400+ connections to pull multi-gigabyte files every time, taking up all available bandwidth, and shutting down everything else on the network?

    Windows 10 is literally not usable without an update server to let you control this, since they have apparently removed all controls for who much bandwidth it uses to pull updates. And it makes your entire network unusable, as well.

    1. Re:Have they fixed Windows Updates yet? by cdrudge · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Delta updates are suppose to be coming, maybe in March...

    2. Re:Have they fixed Windows Updates yet? by taustin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you bother to do your research, you will find that Windows 10 does not, in fact, use BITS. BITS is still there, with the various registry controls (including a default limit of 4 simultaneous connections), but Windows Updates no longer uses it, and the new, half-baked replacement, has no limit on simultaneous connections, and so far as I can tell, no way to implement one.

      Large organization have domain controllers, and use their own update servers, and always have to control bandwidth usage, because local network bandwidth is generally orders of magnitude faster than the internet pipe. My experience with Windows 10 is that a single computer will shut down the entire local network by using all available bandwidth, for considerable amounts of time, pulling multi-gig updates. But as soon as I block access to Windows Updates at the firewall, everything is back to normal. There's no question whatsoever what's going on.

      This is hardly a new issue. It's been covered by technical media before. So far as I can tell, there's still no solution, and little reason to believe there ever will be. Microsoft clearly doesn't care if their products are usable or not.

  8. Re:Upgrade refuseniks are idjits by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In other news, my insurance salesman says I need more insurance.

  9. Huh? by quonset · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You mean I can't type out a Word document, read my email or visit a web site using Windows 7 because it's so insecure?

    Well now, whose fault is that?

    1. Re:Huh? by Dracos · · Score: 4, Funny

      At this point, Windows 3.0 offers users more privacy and security than Windows 10.

  10. Simple by darkain · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is actually quite simple. From a technical perspective, Windows 10 *IS* more secure than Windows 7 in one very major regard. Edge (Win10 bundled browser) is far superior in both functionality and security compared to Internet Explorer (Win7 bundled browser)

    BUT NOBODY FUCKING USES EITHER BROWSER, SO IT IS A MOOT POINT!

    So yes, TECHNICALLY speaking, Windows 10 is "more secure", but nobody is using the insecure parts of Windows 7. Simple as that.

    1. Re:Simple by satsuke · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Right, but IE is still embedded in WIN10 - installed alongside Edge.

      So you get all the problems of IE, along with a new potential vector of Edge.

    2. Re:Simple by edtice1559 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't know how this stuff gets modded up. Windows/10 has everything that was in EMET by default plus a bunch of new features that prevent bugs from becoming exploits. It clearly is superior in terms of third-party hacking. The price you pay is either money (Enterprise Version) or Telemetry (Home/Pro versions). You may not think it's worth the cost, but pretending that the features don't exist (or being ignorant of them) doesn't add any value.

    3. Re:Simple by Stan92057 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Enterprise Version is NOT available to the general public that leave Pro which if i am not mistake they removed some of the tools/options/abilities used to block their data mining, forgive me i cant remember what it was. And ya i would pay for the Enterprise Version but shouldn't be forced to pay for privacy and usability but as i said before win 10 is not an OS anymore.

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
  11. And Candy Crush Soda comes free! by emil · · Score: 5, Informative

    Microsoft believes that our PCs belong to them. They need to lose more market share.

    The Windows app store is not something that we all want. It should be an optional add-on for all versions of Windows.

    Some of us also like Aero. Windows 8 removed Aero simply because mobile devices could not run it well in Windows RT. We are asked to give up Aero solely because of Microsoft's mobile platform that failed in the market and was essentially discontinued.

    Microsoft, we refuse.

  12. Re:Expected /. response by Vlad_the_Inhaler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When Windows updates routinely override existing settings and break existing setups, they fit my definition of malware. Windows 10 qualifies fully and I wish I had never applied the update on one machine last summer. I know several people who applied the update and only one of them is happy with it (as of a few months ago, it is not topic number one).
    Microsoft seem to think we bought our PCs so we could run Windows Update and glory in its magnificence. No, I bought mine to perform certain functions and installing Windows 10 has broken more than it alleviated. It is not the security features which annoy me, even the telemetry is a lesser irritant. What really annoys me is when an update leaves something utterly broken, and the knowledge that the next update is going to repeat the experience.

    --
    Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
  13. Re:Better translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    They weren't late, they were one of the first, but got caught with the NSAKey debacle.
    After that they had to regain trust (of those paying attention).

  14. Microsoft spyware purge by emil · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you disable the "recommended updates" you don't appear to get any of the "old" telemetry - but it may all be back in the rollups and we would never know.

    The old telemetry updates could be removed with the following:

    wusa /uninstall /kb:Patch# /quiet /norestart

    The patches to remove are: 3065988, 3083325,3083324, 2976978, 3075853, 3065987, 3050265, 3050267, 3075851, 2902907, 3068708, 3022345, 2952664, 2990214, 3035583, 971033, 3021917, 3044374, 3046480, 3075249, 3080149.

  15. Are they counting in the cost of windows updates? by luvirini · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When counting the cost are they counting in all the breakage that windows updates have caused for win 10?

    That is a huge number for most people.

    I co-own a small IT services company and one part of the business is basic IT support. In that we have just over 500 customer computers under management and during 2016 the on average 147 windows 10 computers have had an average of 3.4 problem tickets each. The on average 304 windows 7 computers have had an average 0.8 problem tickets each. That is a factor of more than 4!! (The numbers do not contain planned maintenance, new software installation/version upgrade, hardware installation or similar events, just the "something is broken fix it!" classified things.)

  16. You could choose software freedom by jbn-o · · Score: 4, Informative

    All proprietary software should be suspected of being malware. Microsoft Windows before version 10 was known to not behave in the user's interest and certainly not in the user's control (as per the definition of proprietary software). Microsoft tried pushing a Windows 10 "upgrade" on users by force, for example. Other "features" in Windows 10 (such as ignoring a user's privacy settings and doing what is in Microsoft's interest) were simply more along this line. Microsoft's aggressive sales tactics pointed to in this /. story are another example. In time there will be an announcement that Windows 7 will no longer receive updates and the hard sell for Windows 10 (or some other Windows variant) will continue. The question for all Windows users is how much more treatment like this they'd like to receive. It's never been easier to switch to a fully free software OS and run nothing but free software on top of that.

    --
    Digital Citizen
  17. Re:Expected /. response by ilsaloving · · Score: 5, Informative

    You forgot "Microsoft can access your machine and pull anything they want from it at any point in time without your knowledge and/or consent".

    You also have zero control of updates. Unless you have a WSUS server, your machine WILL get updates on the schedule Microsoft forces upon you, and if those updates happen to hose your system, then too bad so sad.

    I have a small pilot of Windows 10 machines at our company, and the last Anniv. update hosed *all* of them. Some were able to get up and running again by reverting to the previous version. One couldn't even revert, requiring us to re-image the machine.

    The problem is that Microsoft wants all the control of your computer, but none of the responsibility. Maybe that's all well and good for home users, since the average home user wouldn't know what to do anyway, but for professional users and administrators who (for whatever reason) don't have the benefit of WSUS, that is *absolutely* unacceptable.

  18. Re:Expected /. response by JohnFen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The simple problem is that telemetry has been overstated and overblown.

    No, the simple problem is that the telemetry is mandatory. Microsoft could have provided a way to turn it all off, but did not. How much or little about me that is exposed by the telemetry is beside the point.

  19. Re:Are they counting in the cost of windows update by luvirini · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I quickly browsed 100 tickets for win 10 in the software category and 43 had a windows update noted as cause or probable cause for the problem. It is of course fully unscientific, but if it is the same for the full range of tickets then that is almost 1.5 problems on average with windows update/computer/year.

    (all titles below are approximate translations to English)

    Several mentions of things like:
    "Computer goes into loop on start after it had restarted itself for windows update" at least 4 of these
    "Program X stops working" with a further comment that it had happened after windows update or version update. at least 5 of these with 2 being local file database corruption in some older program.
    "Windows update never ends" At at least 3 of these
    "Program X no longer works after new windows release" at least 3 of these.
    "Printer settings lost after windows 10 version upgrade" at least 6 of these. All of these in the fall update.

    (I say at least as I started counting when I noticed the same type of issue reoccur and it was a fairly quick scan so might have missed some of the same)

    and the most fun one:
    "Windows 10 constantly restarts the computer for updates every 10 minutes even if you tell it not to" :)

  20. IT Departments? by acoustix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Really, Microsoft? You're preaching about IT security when you have completely taken some Windows 10 security decisions *OUT* of the hands of IT departments? We can no longer disable the Windows App Store in Windows 10 Pro, thanks to you. But if we still want that feature we have to update our licenses from Pro to Enterprise.....because SECURITY. Right? It's not about money, right?

    Go fuck yourselves.

    --
    "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
  21. Re:Expected /. response by JohnFen · · Score: 3, Informative

    It can be turned back down to near the old level simply by setting it to "Basic."

    The old telemetry system was opt-in. The new one isn't even opt-out. Setting it to "Basic" only reduces the amount of data being sent, it does not stop it.

  22. Microsoft bashes Microsoft. by jimbob6 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Microsoft: "Windows 7? why are you still running that pile."

    Users: "Well, you said it was the fastest and most secure operating system ever. Besides Windows 10 doesn't really offer any new functionality and I don't really like the UI."

    Microsoft: "No no that was old Microsoft. He was a dick. You need to scrap that gnarled bag of bolts and install Windows 10. Its the fastest and most secure operating system ever!"

  23. Re:Bashing Windows 10 by fuzznutz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now on to some bashing, we'll start with force updates that everyone complains the most about. Sorry, but this is a necessary evil, because muggles won't f'ing upgrade their systems, leaving them vulnerable and they just don't give a flying f. The only way to address this needless insecurity is to force updates. Personally I don't mind, I like to be running latest and greatest anyway, but just keep in mind, its the idiots who refuse to upgrade their crap that brought this upon us all. Deal with it. For drivers causing PROBLEMS when updated (I've had this too), Microsoft has since day 1 had a tool to disable updates on specific hardware in your machine. So stop whining and use that tool when necessary.

    Whoa right there cowboy. If the updates were - I don't know - tested and vetted, maybe the forced updates wouldn't be a problem. Since they aren't and they break countless machines, many of which are owned by the clueless "idiots" you reference, we have plenty of people with broken computers who have no idea how to fix these problems. When you wake up only to find all networking is now broken, or your printers are all missing, or your data partition is inaccessible, or you have a blue screen that won't resolve with rebooting, the forced updates are a deal breaker for the great unwashed masses, period.

    For the people who have a clue, the telemetry is the deal breaker.

  24. In other news by codeButcher · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Users: Windows 10 Does Not Meet the Demands of Modern Technology; Recommends Linux.

    --
    Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.