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CNET Editor Rails Against Non-Consensual Windows Updates (cnet.com)
schwit1 shares this angry commentary from a CNET senior editor:
Maybe you're delivering a presentation to a huge audience. Maybe you're taking an online test. Maybe you just need to get some work done on a tight deadline.
Windows doesn't care.
Windows will take control of your computer, force-feed it updates, and flip the reset switch automatically — and there's not a damn thing you can do about it, once it gets started.
If you haven't saved your work, it's gone. Your browser tabs are toast. And don't expect to use your computer again soon; depending on the speed of your drive and the size of the update, it could be anywhere from 10 minutes to well over an hour before your PC is ready for work. As far as I'm concerned, it's the single worst thing about Windows. It's only gotten worse in Windows 10. And when I poked around Microsoft, the overarching message I received was that Microsoft has no interest in fixing it.
The editor recalls rebooting his Windows laptop while listening to a speech by Steve Jobs in 2010. (The reboot locked his computer for 20 minutes while updates were installed, "the first of three occasions that a forced Windows update would totally destroy my workflow at a critical moment.") He shares stories from other frustrated Windows users, urges readers to send him more anecdotes, and argues that Microsoft has even begun "actively getting rid of ways to keep users from disabling automatic updates."
If you haven't saved your work, it's gone. Your browser tabs are toast. And don't expect to use your computer again soon; depending on the speed of your drive and the size of the update, it could be anywhere from 10 minutes to well over an hour before your PC is ready for work. As far as I'm concerned, it's the single worst thing about Windows. It's only gotten worse in Windows 10. And when I poked around Microsoft, the overarching message I received was that Microsoft has no interest in fixing it.
The editor recalls rebooting his Windows laptop while listening to a speech by Steve Jobs in 2010. (The reboot locked his computer for 20 minutes while updates were installed, "the first of three occasions that a forced Windows update would totally destroy my workflow at a critical moment.") He shares stories from other frustrated Windows users, urges readers to send him more anecdotes, and argues that Microsoft has even begun "actively getting rid of ways to keep users from disabling automatic updates."
Every day, all day, I do nothing but dodge the sophisticated attempts by countless software and hardware vendors to harass me in every way imaginable. Using a computer has become such a privacy, security and usability nightmare that I no longer feel the slightest joy in doing so. And nobody cares. At least nobody that matters in the least.
The same professor in a world where Microsoft doesn't force updates: "Microsoft's continued refusal to automatically update users computers has put the entire industry at risk from hackers and viruses! Users are clueless drones who don't know to keep their computers updated and Microsoft should do it for them!"
From an article 10 months ago.
https://tech.slashdot.org/stor...
by marked on 07:47 PM May 4th, 2016 (#52047825) Attached to: Windows 10 Updates Are Now Ruining Pro-Gaming Streams
As a somewhat hardened veteran of software installation, and the unbounded stupidity that arises from boneheaded mistakes that occur, I would like to point out the following:
Windows 10 Update installation does not follow the guidelines for updating as explicitly laid out in your software, that is "we will update when you are not using the computer". To help matters further, we will specifically exclude during the following hours "8am to 5:30pm".
So WHY THE FUCK WAS THERE AN UNCONTROLLED INSTALLATION OF AN OS UPDATE AT 4PM TODAY DURING THE TIME I WAS ACTIVELY USING THE SYSTEM? And when I say uncontrolled, it was not "oh click later to install, it was "we are rebooting now to install, OK". No deferral, no postponement, just instant notice.
Not to mention that the reboot occurred during a very intense multiplayer fight that I was the host of, which effectively drop-kicked several players out into the ether without me being able to contact them to let them know what was going on.
Did you mean 8am - to 5:30pm my local time, or that of the Microsoft HQ, in sunny whereever? It is bad enough that games developers can't actually remember how many days there are in April, yet to fuck up simple time management for updating has to be some fairly serious mismanagement on the part of senior design leads.
Or could it be that it completely ignores it like the boneheaded mechanism that only allows 10hour "active" windows slot, because there is no possible reason why people at home could not be using it from 7 in the morning until midnight? or am I completely in the dark about usability that requires a 14 hour window to update on a daily basis?
Of course to further the boneheaded-ness it completely fucked the graphics drivers, where it greenscreened just at idle on the desktop - to the point I had to continuously reboot until I could get to the stage where I could get a CMD prompt up and manage to type "shutdown /o /r /t 1" to get a relatively swift reboot into a mode where I say yes, I want to run a troubleshooting step, and reboot, and then select safe mode, and then reboot into it.
Not to mention that it has been a known problem with the graphics drivers since the last update, and putting it down to "it is the responsibility of the driver manufacturers (Microsoft Engineer)" is disingenuous at best, as MS is supposed to have WHQL'd the drivers, which means that MS should have caught this problem much earlier in testing during the automated build and test phase.
To top that then off, I can't run Microsoft EDGE because the "built in administrator account can't run it".... I can't run explorer because you've managed to switch of the command searching in the cortana interface, which means that I can't run taskmanager, command, etc. What stupidity of a design decision managed to get authorised to create this situation?
The insider fast ring is supposed to be a way to bring light problems that exist in interaction with components. Fucking with AMD graphics drivers in this way isn't an acceptable manner of implementing software best practices.
Now I have to spend an hour fucking around with Device driver uninstaller, because in the infinite wisdom, you've managed to disable any ability of the driver software to recognise that there is an installed device, so of course the programs bomb out with a "no recognised device" so we won't do anything remotely sensible like uninstall the graphics drivers. Then I have to spend an hour waiting whilst I roll back the installation, then reinstall drivers, then reboot, reset up profiles, and ... then reboot again. That is a considerable amount of unnecessary reboots as you rush to get untested, useless additions out into the population.
Yours,
Entirely Hacked Off
Because games run on it. If the games I wanted to play worked on Linux, I would be using it exclusively.
I had a forced restart and I promptly did registry edits and installed Ubuntu. Now I do all my work in Linux, and the only thing Windows could possibly do is kick me out of some online game. It's like they want people who like their platform to switch.
I've seen Windows 10 updates make a computer unusable for hours, particularly for any application where a bit of processing power it needed. Forcing actions that interfere with the owner's use of a computer is another malware trait to add to the adware and spyware that MS bundled with Win 10. It is hard to believe that MS is actually getting away with this sort of behaviour. There are real consequences for Windows users, particularly those in small business that rely on MS products to operate their business but are too small to have the extra control that MS might allow large companies.
Problems with Windows are only going to get worse. Many businesses are unwilling to give up Win 7 and put up with the shit that MS is trying to force on them with Win 10. The same customers mostly avoided Win 8 so are using a OS that MS will abandon, without supplying a functional replacement. MS seems to be completely lost and confused, with an attitude of refusing to give customers what they want but still expecting them to buy their crap.
If Linux companies are smart about this, there could be a huge jump in Linux adoption that convinces more software companies to port their products to Linux. Time will tell. I know from personal experience that it has been very easy to get Win 10 users ready to try Linux.
Windows is losing relevancy as the shift to mobile devices continues and many people no longer need a desktop OS. A sign of just how significant this has become is MS releasing several products onto Android. There are an increasing number of large developers that have little interest in Windows, preferring to focus on other platforms. If MS loses their near monopoly of the desktop OS market, their whole world could come crashing down very quickly.
I agree wholeheartedly, the fact that Windows 10 by default will just randomly reboot itself on a whim to install updates is INFURIATING. However, after some research, I found a way to stop it from automatically rebooting that has worked for me for several months so far.
:p
First, we need to disable the mechanism that actually performs the automatic reboot after installing updates...
-Open Task Scheduler (Start, type "Task" and it'll appear in the results)
-Expand Task Scheduler Library>Microsoft>Windows>WindowsUpdate
-Delete the "Reboot" task
The task that performs the reboot is now gone, but we're not done yet.
Next, we need to prevent Windows from re-creating the automatic reboot task, which has reportedly happened spontaneously on some computers, most often during build upgrades...
-Hit WinKey+R and enter %systemroot%\System32\Tasks\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator to open that folder
-Delete the file named "Reboot"
-Create a new FOLDER named "Reboot"
Since a folder named Reboot now exists, Windows won't be able to re-create the task file named Reboot.
As I said, doing this has worked for me for several months now, but of course YMMV applies here, especially if Microsoft ever decides to surreptitiously find a way to work around our attempts to take back ownership of our computers and crush us underfoot even harder for daring to defy them.
Please excuse my ignorance, but I really only use macOS and Linux on the server. So when you get updates, macOS will display a prompt:\
Update available
[now] [tonight] [ask tomorrow]
I can't imagine that Windows FORCES you to stop your work right there and then, with no way to delay it. Is that really so?
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
Nice bunch of false choices, asshat. The alternative to Blaster, Nimda and Melissa isn't some Nazi-regime where Microsoft sits with all the keys, it's to stop writing shitty, easily exploitable software.
But I guess that's too much for you and your masters, and it wouldn't further your absolute monopoly ambitions either.
I have only been using Linux at home for many years now and in my last job I was only using Linux too, so had not really used a Windows system for a few years when I started using it again for my current job. My first impression was that it was much more stable and usable than in the past, but still inferior to Linux in usability for my type of usage. The stand out exception where Windows has got worse was forced updates. Such a huge distraction and nuisance and feels so primitive compare to Linux. Maybe they will sort it one day, but I suspect I will move on to job that does not force me to use Windows before they fix it.
An article about a problem that has existed for years as if it's a big deal recently. Why would I follow this link unless I just wanted to hear more salty MS tears?
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
thank god Windows didn't reboot while you were typing that. you lucky dog.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
But if Microsoft has begun "actively getting rid of ways to keep users from disabling automatic updates", that's a good thing, right?
Automatic updates are bad
Being able to disable them is good
Keeping users from disabling them is bad
So getting rid of ways to keep users from disabling automatic updates is good.
Right? Or am I off by one here?
1. make sure you have the "Pro" version of Windows 10
2. type in "gpedit.msc" into your start menu bar and hit return
3. you should now have a window called "Local Group Policy Editor"
4. drill down into Computer Configuration\Administrative Templates\Windows Components\Windows Update
5. Double click the "Configure Automatic Updates" setting
6. Select "Enabled" to state that you want to specify / override this setting
7. In the bit on the bottom left change this to "2 - Notify for download and notify for install", this should prevent the updates from kicking in without intervention
8. Click Okay and close the policy window
You can now ignore the updates or install them whenever you want
I swear to god some people are just so lazy they have to bitch and moan about everything
BS!
If anyone from MS is reading these comments let me give the parent poster and my opinion on this. Since you feel you need to make Windows a cell phone and cell phones automatically receive updates, I say to hell with the update due to using the wrong implementation!
I own a Google phone. A nexus 6P which ALWAYS gets updates! Do I loose calls? No. Does my phone ever randomly restart? No. Does it get malware? No.
Here is how everyone else on the planet handles updates. We have this thing called a notification. You should analyze your competitors more? I get a widget alert silently for about a week. Then it eventually turns to a notification about an update. Last it gives me amonth before it even offers a schedule to update. After 3 months it installs when I reboot my phone.
Why is this so hard MS? Also why can't you patch a live system like Oracle Linux or Red hat? You could greatly reduce the need to reboot while keeping your users secure. Last, you think the XP apocalypse was bad with stubborn older users afraid of change refusing to upgrade? Ha!
Keep up this shit and everyone will keep using 7 forever after 2020!! Gee why is Windows 10 adoption slow after the forced upgrades? Perhaps it's because of things like this that scare people.
People use PCs for work. ANY interrupted update IS UnACCEPTABLE PERIOD! Some feel getting malware once or twice a year is preferable with less downtime than getting hit once or twice a month scaringly
http://saveie6.com/
As far as I'm aware the difference is that with the retail version, Miscrosoft takes the view that it has to perform system maintenance (like updates) for you. As part of what you buy. Of course, in such a setting it makes no sense to allow the end-user to postpone updates or any other systems maintenance. Microsoft might get sued if it doesn't patch certain vulnerabilities in time, so it can't have end-users interfering with its maintenance work. That's a conscious decision on Microsoft's part.
With the corporate edition (as far as I'm aware) the IT department is in control, and IT (no pun intended) determines what when where and how updates will take place. Not you (the end user). Not Microsoft. The company IT department. Of course, the average IT department will honour requests that it should not interrupt ongoing work by users ... so it may offer them the standard option to delay updates (for at most 48 hours or so). Servers and such are under even tighter control by IT. Simply because most corporations will not accept anything less. Their interest in continuity of production is paramount and they have the means and the incentive to enforce their preferences. Most private customers don't.
What this illustrates is a shift from the classic "I own it so I control it" idea to the "you're buying a service from us and we'll license you our software to deliver it - just don't get any funny notions about ownership" idea.
It all depends on what packge you buy how you're treated. Buy a consumer grade package, get consumer grade treatment. You're lucky they don't display adds (yet) while updating and then require you to press a button every minute (or they'll stop the updating process until you do).
No. You're just using the wrong Personal Computer operating system.
Neither linux or OS X / MacOS will force you to update.
The more you support companies that abuse you, the more you will be abused. This is not rocket science, and if your job does not force you to use the Windows OS, you are not locked in to Microsoft, no matter what else makes you think you are. You can make a fresh start any time you like. linux is free. OS X comes with a dongle (you know, the one called "a computer.") Both make Windows looks like the garbage it is.
Or, you can continue being abused. The rest of us will just watch in amazement.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Windows users will put up with ANYTHING. They'll bitch and moan, but they'll never change anything. A small number will switch to Macs, which are expensive, but actually still behave like computers. As punishment, they'll have to deal with all the programs that are Windows only, of which there's usually one that just won't work right on a Mac to bother everyone. An even smaller number will switch to Linux, which can be a hassle, and has quite a few programs whose programmers are absolutely dedicated to the cause of preventing them from running on Linux.
But it is this absolute unwillingness to switch which has empowered Microsoft to be so shit in the first place. And of course, you CAN disable Windows updates if you are smart enough and desperate enough- even if you run out of ways (and Microsoft has nuked plenty of them), you can always block the bastards at the router. That escape hatch keeps enough of the top tier techies willing to put up with Windows on their personal machines.
Windows 10 is an absolute shitshow. And every Windows 10 user deserves every shitty minute.
When those viruses were running rampant, i was running Linux.. The only annoyance was the constant scans from machines infected with such malware that only served to waste my bandwidth.
Back then i could apply updates to anything but the kernel in the background, and then restarted the affected software at a time of my choosing. Same with the kernel, i could install the update in the background and reboot at my convenience to run the new kernel. Rebooting or restarting applications was quick because the actual update had already been applied so the system only had to boot the new version. If i decided to turn the machine off at night or for the weekend, then the updates would already have been installed so when i next booted it i would get the latest version of everything automatically.
I was able to strip out useless software from my machine, so the number and frequency of updates was reduced.
Nowadays you can even patch the kernel without rebooting...
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
And when I poked around Microsoft, the overarching message I received was that Microsoft has no interest in fixing it.
I am beginning to wonder is MSFT is actively trying to kill off the Windows platform. Certainly, none of their recent actions make me in any way doubt my choice to go nowhere near it for serious computing. They're either betting on something being a bigger revenue stream, such as a cloudy OS, or they're (by "they're" I mean the SatNad) incredibly stupid. Either way, their statement that Windows 10 will be the last Windows you will ever buy was probably very true for a significant number of people, organisations and public sector bodies.
Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
I wonder how RHEL and my local IT group can keep the workstation I use in working condition without asking to restart the workstation at all...
Yes and thank god, viruses and trojans are a thing of the past. There are no ransomware trojans spreading like wildfire today, and people can merrily use their computers without antivirus, knowing that their operating system is impervious to any harm.
Right?
Thanks MS! For that security, we gladly throw away productivity!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
No dice, starting hour can not be later than earlier hour! It would not let me set it up this way. I could force the winodws update to a narrow window between midnitght and 3 AM.
It clearly shows how badly the managers and UI guys in Microsoft think. Why call it working hours? Allow me to specify update hours. Why just one block of time? Why can't you show me a check boxes in 3 hour blocks and let me pick a block to update?.
The will help people working at odd hours, working on split shifts, etc. I am sure the idea, suggestions and counter proposals came up. Still MS did it in this brain dead way because, it wants to balance the load on its servers. If it gives "too much" freedom everybody will choose 3AM to 6AM block and so to reduce the load on its servers, it deliberately decided to serve about 80% of the user base to reduce complaints.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
He went to an important event where he needed 100% up-time in a public place that he most doubtfully was on a 3rd party wireless network and he made no effort to make sure his computer was up to date before hand.
Have you actually used a computer? You seem to have reality entirely back-to-front.
Updating your OS or other key software just before an important event or deadline is the stupid move here. Once in a blue moon, there's a major vulnerability of the "instant remote pwnage" variety that might justify dropping everything and patching, but for the vast majority of updates, the risk of the update process going wrong, or the update breaking or changing something exceeds any risk from running unpatched. Auto update - even automatic checking for updates - became an abomination as soon as it was used for anything other than the highest-priority critical security updates. Update your software when it has a bug or vulnerability that affects you. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Patch during quiet periods.
If your "security policy" is causing downtime or data loss then you've got your risk assessment all screwed up.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
This technique stopped working after the Windows 10 Anniversary Update.
Forced outside of work? That's... interesting. I wonder who is forcing you? Perhaps you should call the authorities.
This may help:
1: Parallels or VWWare or some other similar solution
2: Once Windows is installed in the VM, turn off the VM's network access, or use a firewall to prevent it from getting to Microsoft unless you say "ok". One such product (for the Mac, at least) is "Little Snitch"; when (whatever) tries to get to (wherever) you can catch it in a dialog and say yes or no or allow till reboot or forever, etc., while choosing "all connections" or "only this connection". It's very useful to control wayward software. Like Windows.
And if you want to let Windows out of its cage, you can, and you can still do real work on the Mac, as it's not crippled by whatever Windows malfuckery is going on in the VM.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, the reason I'm smug is because I have this all handled. I never let Windows out of its little sandbox, since it isn't housebroken. :)
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Everyone who was tired of getting slammed with the BLASTER worm, with Nimda, or with the Melissa virus, requested that Windows be more secure. Everyone who fell victim to a buffer overflow, or privilege escalation DEMANDED that it be mitigated. Companies who had windows systems connected to the internet ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED that the propagation of worms not be allowed to continue.
Cool story, Bro!
I'm sorry you don't enjoy working with a computer anymore. Did you enjoy it when those above mentioned viruses were running rampant? Which would you rather have, constant attacks from internet zombies, or a small time of inactivity while your OS is being patched?
I enjoy using a computer very much. But my OSX and Linux computers don't seem to have the same problems my Windows machines have. You've just had those problems for so long that you've become acclimated to them, expect them, and have suffered Stockholm syndrome.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Yes, jackoff, it's my fault I had to leave Mathematica running for a day or two on a non-trivial problem.
This tells me that all of your work IS trivial.
Except switching operating systems shuts down all background services. You can't keep, say, music or group chat going during a reboot, especially because Windows games want to run on a copy of Windows installed on bare metal rather than in VirtualBox. And how does one sync browser tabs between operating systems in a dual boot configuration, including form contents that have been entered but not yet submitted?
The same professor in a world where Microsoft doesn't force updates: "Microsoft's continued refusal to automatically update users computers has put the entire industry at risk from hackers and viruses! Users are clueless drones who don't know to keep their computers updated and Microsoft should do it for them!"
I thought that Mac users were the clueless noobs, and Windows users were smart consumers, making th ecorrect decision on what computer to buy after performing research.
Yet we on MacOS and Linux choose when to make the update. And despite Windows zealot protests, there are enough Unix and Unix-like machines out there to provide a fine attack surface.
Because there is another issue at play here.
Possibly the biggest reason people avoid Windows updates is not because they want to make their machine unsafe, or even the inconvenience. It's that the damn machine often does not work properly after the update. Software that worked perfectly one day, doesn't work at all the next. And this is for little updates, not major ones. In addition, settings are often changed - always go in to visit your telemetry settings in W10 after an update.
Somehow, my other machines are not gifted with that. Which is why my Linux and MacOS machines voluntarily get updated a week after the notices appear. When I could control my Windows updates, I'd wait a couple months at the least, so they could roll back or alter whatever it was that they bitched up. Now W10 updates are like Redmond Roulette.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I am a graphics artist. I often have to leave my computer running for hours or days on end when I am rendering something.
What "workflow" would you suggest I take up to make things more convenient for my operating system? You know, because I am at the beck and call of my computer instead of the other way around.
BS!
If anyone from MS is reading these comments let me give the parent poster and my opinion on this. Since you feel you need to make Windows a cell phone and cell phones automatically receive updates, I say to hell with the update due to using the wrong implementation!
I own a Google phone. A nexus 6P which ALWAYS gets updates! Do I loose calls? No. Does my phone ever randomly restart? No. Does it get malware? No.
The problem is that since most of the world uses Windows phones, there are more viruses and malware written for Windows phones.
oh........wait.......
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
There are times that users just can't have resource grabbing happen, such as 3D printing. The latency from even checking for updates, can ruin a studio recording. Windows 10 rebooting options are poorly thought out. What if you cannot have your computer reboot anytime in the near future?
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
If you need your Windows 10 computer to not update for a period of time, you may have to log in to your router and blacklist all Microsoft sites. When you are done work, you can log in again and allow your network to reach them again.
Perhaps he's only just switched to a Win10 system as his primary machine recently. There's a big difference between poking around on a system for review purposes, to learn about its features, its design, its limitations, etc, and relying on it every day to be productive. I can attest, I was upset by the loss of control in Windows Update from day 1, but it wasn't until it ate one of my documents in-progress that I became furiously vocal about it.
Not only "workflows" are affected, every long-running job without user interaction is too. Like big downloads on a slow internet connection, those can take several hours.
BTW, the computer going into sleep mode can interrupt those too, but at least you can usually resume those by "awakening" your PC.
For my own PC (still on Win7) I use the "No Sleep" tool and have set automatic updates to "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them". Works for me, but I understand that is no longer possible on Win10. Very bad idea and it makes Win10 pretty useless for people who have very long-running jobs.
C - the footgun of programming languages
Are you really arguing that Windows 10 has made people's computers so unreliable that using the cloud is considered to be the fix? That just reinforces the point that Windows 10 is broken for serious computing..
Of course all operating system have their own problems. As a user of all three operating systems, I can quote you chapter and verse. Yanking the computer right out from under you while you're working without giving you any choice in the matter, however, is as far as I know, a unique vacation benefit of Windows.
Having said that all operating systems have their problems, OS X is the one that has gotten in my way the least -- and I'm not just a user, I'm also a developer that writes code for all three platforms. If I was to try to come up with an irritation score, OS X would absolutely come away with definitely the lowest, and Windows definitely with the highest, leaving linux cleanly in the middle.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
I have been using this great OS called Windows 7. It does what I want when I want it to...
You mean, Windows 7 is not a blatantly oppressive as Windows 10, but it is still oppressive. You seem to have put things out of your mind, like activation codes and prostrating yourself to plead for a new activation code after Windows 7 decided to become "non-genuine" and the countless other little cuts and humiliations that define the life of a Windows user. Microsoft is just turning the screws harder, it's not like that dungeon ever was a fun place to be.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.