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CNET Editor Rails Against Non-Consensual Windows Updates (cnet.com)
schwit1 shares this angry commentary from a CNET senior editor:
Maybe you're delivering a presentation to a huge audience. Maybe you're taking an online test. Maybe you just need to get some work done on a tight deadline.
Windows doesn't care.
Windows will take control of your computer, force-feed it updates, and flip the reset switch automatically — and there's not a damn thing you can do about it, once it gets started.
If you haven't saved your work, it's gone. Your browser tabs are toast. And don't expect to use your computer again soon; depending on the speed of your drive and the size of the update, it could be anywhere from 10 minutes to well over an hour before your PC is ready for work. As far as I'm concerned, it's the single worst thing about Windows. It's only gotten worse in Windows 10. And when I poked around Microsoft, the overarching message I received was that Microsoft has no interest in fixing it.
The editor recalls rebooting his Windows laptop while listening to a speech by Steve Jobs in 2010. (The reboot locked his computer for 20 minutes while updates were installed, "the first of three occasions that a forced Windows update would totally destroy my workflow at a critical moment.") He shares stories from other frustrated Windows users, urges readers to send him more anecdotes, and argues that Microsoft has even begun "actively getting rid of ways to keep users from disabling automatic updates."
If you haven't saved your work, it's gone. Your browser tabs are toast. And don't expect to use your computer again soon; depending on the speed of your drive and the size of the update, it could be anywhere from 10 minutes to well over an hour before your PC is ready for work. As far as I'm concerned, it's the single worst thing about Windows. It's only gotten worse in Windows 10. And when I poked around Microsoft, the overarching message I received was that Microsoft has no interest in fixing it.
The editor recalls rebooting his Windows laptop while listening to a speech by Steve Jobs in 2010. (The reboot locked his computer for 20 minutes while updates were installed, "the first of three occasions that a forced Windows update would totally destroy my workflow at a critical moment.") He shares stories from other frustrated Windows users, urges readers to send him more anecdotes, and argues that Microsoft has even begun "actively getting rid of ways to keep users from disabling automatic updates."
Can't remember the last time I picked up a phone or a tablet and wasn't greeted by a system update screen, or a notification that 30 apps need to be updated minutes after walking away from a wifi hotspot.
The real problem is that software developers exist in permanent beta, adding and removing features whenever they please. I kind of miss the pre-network days when software was delivered complete and didn't significantly change between versions.
The same professor in a world where Microsoft doesn't force updates: "Microsoft's continued refusal to automatically update users computers has put the entire industry at risk from hackers and viruses! Users are clueless drones who don't know to keep their computers updated and Microsoft should do it for them!"
From an article 10 months ago.
https://tech.slashdot.org/stor...
by marked on 07:47 PM May 4th, 2016 (#52047825) Attached to: Windows 10 Updates Are Now Ruining Pro-Gaming Streams
As a somewhat hardened veteran of software installation, and the unbounded stupidity that arises from boneheaded mistakes that occur, I would like to point out the following:
Windows 10 Update installation does not follow the guidelines for updating as explicitly laid out in your software, that is "we will update when you are not using the computer". To help matters further, we will specifically exclude during the following hours "8am to 5:30pm".
So WHY THE FUCK WAS THERE AN UNCONTROLLED INSTALLATION OF AN OS UPDATE AT 4PM TODAY DURING THE TIME I WAS ACTIVELY USING THE SYSTEM? And when I say uncontrolled, it was not "oh click later to install, it was "we are rebooting now to install, OK". No deferral, no postponement, just instant notice.
Not to mention that the reboot occurred during a very intense multiplayer fight that I was the host of, which effectively drop-kicked several players out into the ether without me being able to contact them to let them know what was going on.
Did you mean 8am - to 5:30pm my local time, or that of the Microsoft HQ, in sunny whereever? It is bad enough that games developers can't actually remember how many days there are in April, yet to fuck up simple time management for updating has to be some fairly serious mismanagement on the part of senior design leads.
Or could it be that it completely ignores it like the boneheaded mechanism that only allows 10hour "active" windows slot, because there is no possible reason why people at home could not be using it from 7 in the morning until midnight? or am I completely in the dark about usability that requires a 14 hour window to update on a daily basis?
Of course to further the boneheaded-ness it completely fucked the graphics drivers, where it greenscreened just at idle on the desktop - to the point I had to continuously reboot until I could get to the stage where I could get a CMD prompt up and manage to type "shutdown /o /r /t 1" to get a relatively swift reboot into a mode where I say yes, I want to run a troubleshooting step, and reboot, and then select safe mode, and then reboot into it.
Not to mention that it has been a known problem with the graphics drivers since the last update, and putting it down to "it is the responsibility of the driver manufacturers (Microsoft Engineer)" is disingenuous at best, as MS is supposed to have WHQL'd the drivers, which means that MS should have caught this problem much earlier in testing during the automated build and test phase.
To top that then off, I can't run Microsoft EDGE because the "built in administrator account can't run it".... I can't run explorer because you've managed to switch of the command searching in the cortana interface, which means that I can't run taskmanager, command, etc. What stupidity of a design decision managed to get authorised to create this situation?
The insider fast ring is supposed to be a way to bring light problems that exist in interaction with components. Fucking with AMD graphics drivers in this way isn't an acceptable manner of implementing software best practices.
Now I have to spend an hour fucking around with Device driver uninstaller, because in the infinite wisdom, you've managed to disable any ability of the driver software to recognise that there is an installed device, so of course the programs bomb out with a "no recognised device" so we won't do anything remotely sensible like uninstall the graphics drivers. Then I have to spend an hour waiting whilst I roll back the installation, then reinstall drivers, then reboot, reset up profiles, and ... then reboot again. That is a considerable amount of unnecessary reboots as you rush to get untested, useless additions out into the population.
Yours,
Entirely Hacked Off
Because games run on it. If the games I wanted to play worked on Linux, I would be using it exclusively.
I had a forced restart and I promptly did registry edits and installed Ubuntu. Now I do all my work in Linux, and the only thing Windows could possibly do is kick me out of some online game. It's like they want people who like their platform to switch.
That is absolutely true. "Using a computer" has become for "knowing how to work around bugs in the software". Updates are just one of the issues.
Although to be honest, my Windows 10 PC upgrades over night as it should. Yes, your tabs are gone, but they reload at the press of a button, and the state of the tabs would mostly be stale, anyway. So my inconvenience has been quite limited.
I've seen Windows 10 updates make a computer unusable for hours, particularly for any application where a bit of processing power it needed. Forcing actions that interfere with the owner's use of a computer is another malware trait to add to the adware and spyware that MS bundled with Win 10. It is hard to believe that MS is actually getting away with this sort of behaviour. There are real consequences for Windows users, particularly those in small business that rely on MS products to operate their business but are too small to have the extra control that MS might allow large companies.
Problems with Windows are only going to get worse. Many businesses are unwilling to give up Win 7 and put up with the shit that MS is trying to force on them with Win 10. The same customers mostly avoided Win 8 so are using a OS that MS will abandon, without supplying a functional replacement. MS seems to be completely lost and confused, with an attitude of refusing to give customers what they want but still expecting them to buy their crap.
If Linux companies are smart about this, there could be a huge jump in Linux adoption that convinces more software companies to port their products to Linux. Time will tell. I know from personal experience that it has been very easy to get Win 10 users ready to try Linux.
Windows is losing relevancy as the shift to mobile devices continues and many people no longer need a desktop OS. A sign of just how significant this has become is MS releasing several products onto Android. There are an increasing number of large developers that have little interest in Windows, preferring to focus on other platforms. If MS loses their near monopoly of the desktop OS market, their whole world could come crashing down very quickly.
I found my first 6502 computer in my parent's attic last year. Dusted it off. Then dusted it off again. Worked exactly like brand new (after finding a free TV on craigslist). It was the most fun I had with a computer in over a decade. Spent $200 on ebay buying all the nifty things I could never afford as a kid, like a floppy drive, rs232 expansion port, printer and joystick.
Nice bunch of false choices, asshat. The alternative to Blaster, Nimda and Melissa isn't some Nazi-regime where Microsoft sits with all the keys, it's to stop writing shitty, easily exploitable software.
But I guess that's too much for you and your masters, and it wouldn't further your absolute monopoly ambitions either.
thank god Windows didn't reboot while you were typing that. you lucky dog.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
BS!
If anyone from MS is reading these comments let me give the parent poster and my opinion on this. Since you feel you need to make Windows a cell phone and cell phones automatically receive updates, I say to hell with the update due to using the wrong implementation!
I own a Google phone. A nexus 6P which ALWAYS gets updates! Do I loose calls? No. Does my phone ever randomly restart? No. Does it get malware? No.
Here is how everyone else on the planet handles updates. We have this thing called a notification. You should analyze your competitors more? I get a widget alert silently for about a week. Then it eventually turns to a notification about an update. Last it gives me amonth before it even offers a schedule to update. After 3 months it installs when I reboot my phone.
Why is this so hard MS? Also why can't you patch a live system like Oracle Linux or Red hat? You could greatly reduce the need to reboot while keeping your users secure. Last, you think the XP apocalypse was bad with stubborn older users afraid of change refusing to upgrade? Ha!
Keep up this shit and everyone will keep using 7 forever after 2020!! Gee why is Windows 10 adoption slow after the forced upgrades? Perhaps it's because of things like this that scare people.
People use PCs for work. ANY interrupted update IS UnACCEPTABLE PERIOD! Some feel getting malware once or twice a year is preferable with less downtime than getting hit once or twice a month scaringly
http://saveie6.com/
As far as I'm aware the difference is that with the retail version, Miscrosoft takes the view that it has to perform system maintenance (like updates) for you. As part of what you buy. Of course, in such a setting it makes no sense to allow the end-user to postpone updates or any other systems maintenance. Microsoft might get sued if it doesn't patch certain vulnerabilities in time, so it can't have end-users interfering with its maintenance work. That's a conscious decision on Microsoft's part.
With the corporate edition (as far as I'm aware) the IT department is in control, and IT (no pun intended) determines what when where and how updates will take place. Not you (the end user). Not Microsoft. The company IT department. Of course, the average IT department will honour requests that it should not interrupt ongoing work by users ... so it may offer them the standard option to delay updates (for at most 48 hours or so). Servers and such are under even tighter control by IT. Simply because most corporations will not accept anything less. Their interest in continuity of production is paramount and they have the means and the incentive to enforce their preferences. Most private customers don't.
What this illustrates is a shift from the classic "I own it so I control it" idea to the "you're buying a service from us and we'll license you our software to deliver it - just don't get any funny notions about ownership" idea.
It all depends on what packge you buy how you're treated. Buy a consumer grade package, get consumer grade treatment. You're lucky they don't display adds (yet) while updating and then require you to press a button every minute (or they'll stop the updating process until you do).
There is a difference. Your phone doesn't randomly shutdown and install updates during an important call with no prompt or warning.
I have no issue with notifications for updates or updates done nicely where it will schedule a time when YOU choose to reboot your device. Not the other way around ... Joke for slashdoter old-timers ... IN SOVIET UNION RUSSIA updates reboot YOU ... Wait a minute??
http://saveie6.com/
Obviously, it isn't connected to the Internet.
That's not obvious at all. It has a very small attack surface (not many VOS instances around), running on highly specialised hardware. Can't run up one of those in a VM to test vulnerability. Lots of easier targets for the taking.
Also, my Win 7 systems (6 desktops/laptops) and one XP machine run no anti-malware with the exception of noscript in their browsers, all run behind a consumer-grade ADSL2+ modem/router with a consumer-grade firewall, and guess what? WE DON'T GET MALWARE INFECTIONS, because we're smart enough to follow basic security practices.
Some people need their hands held, and some don't. You can't lump us all in with the first category.
They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
No. You're just using the wrong Personal Computer operating system.
Neither linux or OS X / MacOS will force you to update.
The more you support companies that abuse you, the more you will be abused. This is not rocket science, and if your job does not force you to use the Windows OS, you are not locked in to Microsoft, no matter what else makes you think you are. You can make a fresh start any time you like. linux is free. OS X comes with a dongle (you know, the one called "a computer.") Both make Windows looks like the garbage it is.
Or, you can continue being abused. The rest of us will just watch in amazement.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
He went to an important event where he needed 100% up-time in a public place that he most doubtfully was on a 3rd party wireless network and he made no effort to make sure his computer was up to date before hand.
Have you actually used a computer? You seem to have reality entirely back-to-front.
Updating your OS or other key software just before an important event or deadline is the stupid move here. Once in a blue moon, there's a major vulnerability of the "instant remote pwnage" variety that might justify dropping everything and patching, but for the vast majority of updates, the risk of the update process going wrong, or the update breaking or changing something exceeds any risk from running unpatched. Auto update - even automatic checking for updates - became an abomination as soon as it was used for anything other than the highest-priority critical security updates. Update your software when it has a bug or vulnerability that affects you. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Patch during quiet periods.
If your "security policy" is causing downtime or data loss then you've got your risk assessment all screwed up.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
This technique stopped working after the Windows 10 Anniversary Update.
Forced outside of work? That's... interesting. I wonder who is forcing you? Perhaps you should call the authorities.
This may help:
1: Parallels or VWWare or some other similar solution
2: Once Windows is installed in the VM, turn off the VM's network access, or use a firewall to prevent it from getting to Microsoft unless you say "ok". One such product (for the Mac, at least) is "Little Snitch"; when (whatever) tries to get to (wherever) you can catch it in a dialog and say yes or no or allow till reboot or forever, etc., while choosing "all connections" or "only this connection". It's very useful to control wayward software. Like Windows.
And if you want to let Windows out of its cage, you can, and you can still do real work on the Mac, as it's not crippled by whatever Windows malfuckery is going on in the VM.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, the reason I'm smug is because I have this all handled. I never let Windows out of its little sandbox, since it isn't housebroken. :)
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Yes, jackoff, it's my fault I had to leave Mathematica running for a day or two on a non-trivial problem.
This tells me that all of your work IS trivial.
I am a graphics artist. I often have to leave my computer running for hours or days on end when I am rendering something.
What "workflow" would you suggest I take up to make things more convenient for my operating system? You know, because I am at the beck and call of my computer instead of the other way around.
It's also reasonable to ask why so many updates need to reboot the whole device these days.
99% of the time, that in itself reflects a weakness in the underlying OS and software architecture.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Are you really arguing that Windows 10 has made people's computers so unreliable that using the cloud is considered to be the fix? That just reinforces the point that Windows 10 is broken for serious computing..