Slashdot Mirror
Mexican Surgeon Uses VR Headset To Distract Patients During Surgery (bbc.com)
dryriver writes: The BBC has a longish story on a Mexican surgeon who makes his patients wear a VR headset that distracts them from the surgical procedure being performed on them. While Dr Mosso cuts and removes and stitches, the patient flies through a 3D VR re-creation of Machu Picchu or other fantastical places, oblivious to being in an otherwise -- for many patients -- stress inducing surgical setting. This removes the need to give patients powerful sedatives or painkillers to keep them calm and prevent their blood pressure from fluctuating. The surgeon only anesthetizes the part of the body where the surgery is performed, while the patient is absorbed in colorful and immersive VR worlds. An excerpt from the report: "The surgeon makes his first cut and blood spills down Ana's leg. She's surrounded by medical equipment -- stools, trolleys, swabs, syringes -- with super-bright surgical lamps suspended above the bed. Her vital signs are displayed on monitors just behind. But Ana is oblivious. She's immersed in a three-dimensional re-creation of Machu Picchu. She begins her journey with a breathtaking aerial view of the ancient city clinging to the mountainside, before swooping down to explore the details of stepped terraces, moss-covered walls and tiny stone huts. Mosso watches her carefully. A 54-year-old surgeon at Panamerican University in Mexico City, he's on a mission to bring virtual reality into the operating room. Mosso is using VR as a high-tech distraction technique, allowing surgeons to carry out operations that would normally require powerful painkillers and sedatives, with nothing more than local anaesthetic. He's trying to prove that reducing drug doses in this way not only slashes costs for Mexico's cash-strapped hospitals, but cuts complications and recovery times for patients too."
I would probably be less comfortable with a vr headset on.
I've watched myself be cut open once and stitched up 7 times, always with a keen sense of curiosity and interest. It's never freaked me out in the slightest, probably the same reason I've needed to be patched up so much. Well, the one time I was only getting five stitches and the ER was really busy so I got left for an hour and a half after being anesthetized, the doctor said to just suck it up even though it had basically worn off.
I'm old enough to remember when acupuncture was brought in for basically all the reasons listed in TFA. Same hype, same claimed benefits and successes.
Maybe there's something to the idea of distracting the brain to reduce the need for anesthetic during surgery, but it's been 40+ years since the first "breakthroughs" using acupuncture and how many surgeons today are using acupuncture during various procedures to eliminate the need for anesthetics?
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
... when I got my vasectomy.
Guys at work had been pulling on surgical tubing all week, making my nuts draw up into my jaw.
The doctor put me on a slab with a curtain blocking my view of him. All I could think of was that damned surgical tubing and suddenly ... ... it was a warm, sunny day and I was opening a gate of a picket fence and I was feeling very glad to be going into a cottage where my wide was waiting.
When I came to, the slab was tilted where my head was near the floor and my feet were way up.
The doctor said I had passed out. He said he believed I held my breath the whole fucking time he was working on me!
Then he tells me he needed to patch me up and we could do the other one next time.
I told him, do the other side. If I leave here, I'm never coming back.
And remove that goddam curtain!
And get the nurse to come over and talk to me.
He did all that and I chatted up the nurse with small talk.
So, this idea would have been really helpful, especially if the VR was porn and stuff.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
You might not forget, but it plus the local anesthetic makes it easy to ignore.
Look, think about if you were at the dentist. All you have to do is keep your mouth open, right? Watching some stuff on a vr headset would be great. The dentist needs the bright light above you so he can't just suspend a TV (plus you could still see the distractions) but a vr headset isolates the view.
I think it's genius.
Many people get motion sickness when in a VR with a moving viewpoint. Having your patient suddenly sit up and vomit would probably not be a good idea during surgery. The simplest solution would probably be to test them on the VR first to see if they are nausea-prone, and choose the surgery VR experience based on that.
Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
Distractions? H no, if its not such a big deal as to require a general anesthetic, then I want to watch in as much detail as possible. Open heart surgery or maybe a prostatectomy? Nope, too big a deal, and would trigger unhelpful actions if they went wrong 'cuz that'd scare me, but, say, surgery to repair broken bones, or remove something not in vital organ areas, yeah, I wanna see...
A lot of people die because of miscalculated anesthesia. Not a lot of people die of bad VR.
lucm, indeed.
Nice for those hospitals who can afford high tech entertainment devices and the attendant communication systems required. Could be iffy though if there is a bad connection.
There is a better way to 'distract' the patient. Hypnosis. It's free aside from the need for a skilled operator. No equipment or communication devices required. The operator doesn't even have to be present in the arena.
Not only can hypnosis distract the patient, it can allow the patient to participate in the procedure. Being fully aware, the patient can move muscles, control blood flow and report to the surgeon various sensations.
Countless births and surgical operations have been enhanced with hypnosis. I personally had three teeth pulled with only a mild hypnotic sedation. There was no pain, no bleeding at the time or after although I was fully aware of the crunching of bone during the extraction and the vigorous muscle applied to get those molars out. I spit chunks of bone for several days after.
Hypnosis is associated with magic in the uneducated mind. It's a shame. There is no more natural way to be in tune and in control of our bodies and minds.
...omphaloskepsis often...
You might not forget, but it plus the local anesthetic makes it easy to ignore.
You can definitely ignore it.
After one of my many Hockey accidents, I had to get a bunch of metal put into my lower leg and near my ankle. During prep for surgery, they gave me a nice shot of "I don't give a damn". It wasn't a pain killer, but I gotta tell ya, I was one unconcerned person. With that, and a spinal tap. I was awake for the whole procedure. A little foggy, but I was conversing the whole time with the surgeons.
It was actually kinda cool, because I had questions about the various machinery they were using. They told the wife I must either be a scientist or an engineer for all my yapping. Regardless, without the shot of happy juice, I wouldn't have had such an enjoyable experience. Wish I knew what it was.
But if we want to talk about the Icewater boot on me that sprung a leak in the middle of the night, and dumped a few gallons of really cold water on the family jewels - that part of the hospital visit sucked.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
At least the title isn't:
"US President uses Mexicans to distract populace during $hit$how."
Just ask the patient what he wants to see?
I used to go to a dentist who offered patients those stupid Sony TV glasses where you could watch a movie.
Actually, I really liked it.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
If you have adverse reactions to anesthesia, then maybe this isn't a good idea for you. But what does that have to do with the other 90% of the population?
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
These devices actually existed and were the reason lots of innovation in small machinery was done, first steam powered then electrical. Nice chapter in history of engineering and all this due to vaginal hysteria or whatever they called this back then as doctors applying medical procedures to relieve suffering from the affected individuals had to do this manual rubbing and push-pull procedures which was in some cases difficult hence the innovation. The only thing I wonder is how the engineers came about to know all this steamy details in an era not known for its ease on such subjects.
It has been some time since I was looking at statistics but Cuba had better medical service in many areas than US. The Cubans were not free but had good medicine and provided it for others. Part of it was necessity caused by US sanctions and p art of it was luck to have leadership making right decisions. This is not to say dictatorship is a good thing but there are good systems out there which are not based on demagogy of free market fixes it all. Something that so called free press/media could acknowledge (if it were not sold to whoever owns them now).
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
It should be pretty easy to fit the VR headset to provide some nitrous oxide to augment the experience. Actually, and this feature could be great for non-medical VR applications, too...
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
My dentist used to have a large cartoon poster stuck to the ceiling above the chair. That was a nice distraction, until I burst out laughing while having various dental tools in my mouth. After that, I closed my eyes instead.
You might not forget, but it plus the local anesthetic makes it easy to ignore.
You can definitely ignore it.
After one of my many Hockey accidents, I had to get a bunch of metal put into my lower leg and near my ankle. During prep for surgery, they gave me a nice shot of "I don't give a damn". It wasn't a pain killer, but I gotta tell ya, I was one unconcerned person. With that, and a spinal tap. I was awake for the whole procedure. A little foggy, but I was conversing the whole time with the surgeons.
It was actually kinda cool, because I had questions about the various machinery they were using. They told the wife I must either be a scientist or an engineer for all my yapping. Regardless, without the shot of happy juice, I wouldn't have had such an enjoyable experience. Wish I knew what it was.
Morphine or another strong opiods, That's what they do that make them valuable dispite being addictive. They make you not care about pain or unpleasant things. It is also why they are still used in caugh syrup. It is much better at making you ignore tickling or soreness in the throat than any other medication.
I could certainly use some shots of this so called "I don't give a damn" for my day job. That prescription seems about right and not too strong like the "I don't give a single flying fuck" that I think others have taken instead.
Assuming you aren't allergic or just avoiding the operation from fear of general anaesthesia.
Sorry for the old article, but worth considering.
http://healthland.time.com/201...
A lot of people die because of miscalculated anesthesia. Not a lot of people die of bad VR.
Then they haven't tried the VR version of Resident Evil 7 yet.
A lot of people die because of miscalculated anesthesia. Not a lot of people die of bad VR.
Have you never seen The Lawnmower Man? ;)
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
Opioids aren't really sedatives in that sense. That was almost certainly a benzodiazepine, probably midazolam if done in the past twenty to thirty years, or diazepam before that. There was probably a bit of morphine in the spinal anesthetic, though, because it's good for about 24 hours of pain relief if given spinally.
It's more that the surgeries that can be done under local only are much smaller, much less invasive, and generally the sort of thing that is done on healthy people. Much different from the 85-year-old with complete kidney failure and a bad heart who has a ruptured bowel.
I don't often do it, but I have on occasion told people that there was a substantial risk of death during surgery. They went ahead because, well, the risk of death without surgery was even bigger.
Anesthesia isn't really about calculation - it's about preparation and quick reaction. Everyone is different, and you have to be ready to jump on whatever is wrong with them. Also, surgeons sometimes throw us under the bus.
Of that time the Doc removed my arm at the elbow. Good times.
Morphine or another strong opiods, That's what they do that make them valuable dispite being addictive. They make you not care about pain or unpleasant things.
Not in this case at least. Opioids and I don't get along well, they dull the pain a little, then a momentary rush of euphoria, followed immediately by the room taking a 90 degree shift, and me breaking out in a sweat and puking.
Not certain why, but I'd be the last person to develop a opiate addiction.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I have to say... my surgeon wearing a VR headset during the surgery would distract the bejesus out of me, too!
Oh.
The patient wears it?
Never mind.
... a C-section. I'm eight months pregnant, so this is kind of upwards in my mind (because, well, it scares me as a possibility and my baby is measuring big, so it IS a possibility), but even without VR, women make it through having a c-section all the time, with a spinal block in place to numb the whole area. Heck, women who are much braver than I am actually watch the whole thing in a mirror. (That one still just leaves me aghast that someone can pull that off.) Admittedly, they have a big goal in doing so - being able to interact with their baby as soon as possible, rather than having to come out of a general anesthetic, in addition to the risks of a general that are noted here.
I went to the ER once with what was probably a pinched nerve. I was having a pain that, at that time, was the worst pain I'd ever felt in my life. After the ER finally decided I wasn't a drug seeker they gave me a shot of something. I remember laughing out loud and telling my wife that it didn't do a thing for the pain because I could tell it was a bad as it ever was but I just didn't care any more. It was awesome.
Opiates disrupt nerve signals reducing pain sensations but they also make you not care about the pain as much and that is the piece that has the biggest impact. Ever have a strong headache and at some point get distracted for a spell by a TV show or something else that absorbs your attention? During that spell you experience zero pain and the minute your attention comes back to the headache it all comes back. The direct pain relieving aspect of opiates reduce the "volume" of the acute pain while the "high" part if you will makes it very easy to get absorbed in a distraction, enough of it and the distraction can just be a train of thought or at the extreme the warm dozing calm state it provides. This is why other drugs which trigger similar pain reducing effects but that don't get you high are ineffective for serious pain. Nothing that works by directly acting on pain also leaves you able to exercise motor control. The drugs which work well enough to do this for the kind of pain opiates are prescribed for are used to anesthetize you for surgical procedures.
Some pain killers are other classes of drug entirely and meant to reduce inflammation and that sort of thing, reducing inflammation helps to make pain manageable with opiates but is not a substitute.
The prevalence of opiate addiction in the US is absolutely no justification for the pressure on doctors not to prescribe opiates. The drugs meant to replace opiates are fine supplements but worthless as replacements. It's sad there are addicts in the world and it is a real medical problem, we shouldn't deny even one person who an opiate would be marginally more effective at managing their pain that opiate to reduce the number of addicts. Especially because those measures don't work.
Sounds like taking them on an empty stomach, taking too much (which is completely personal), or taking the wrong ones like Tramadol. Tramadol is not supposed to be addictive, although it has been found it is still addictive doctors still ignore that revelation and treat it like it is a safer alternative. Tramadol is a poor painkiller, maybe on level with tylenol with codeine and carries the worst of what can happen with too much hydrocodone as a normal side effect. With correct dosing you'll be a little warm or cold and periodically itchy.
If it is taking too much while still only taking what the doc suggested take them anyway for a few days and you'll quickly adjust. Also, you can be active on opiates but their pain relieving effect is minimal that way. The right answer is to cuddle up in a bed with the light off and don't stress or fight the fading in and out.
Not only did they exist vibrators were invented as treatment for vapors and hysteria. Women would pretend to have the vapors so the doctor would give them orgasms.
Morphine or another strong opiods, That's what they do that make them valuable dispite being addictive. They make you not care about pain or unpleasant things.
Not in this case at least. Opioids and I don't get along well, they dull the pain a little, then a momentary rush of euphoria, followed immediately by the room taking a 90 degree shift, and me breaking out in a sweat and puking.
Not certain why, but I'd be the last person to develop a opiate addiction.
Hmm, could be liver failure.
Considering that the operation was in 1996, I'd dead by now.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I went to the ER once with what was probably a pinched nerve. I was having a pain that, at that time, was the worst pain I'd ever felt in my life. After the ER finally decided I wasn't a drug seeker they gave me a shot of something. I remember laughing out loud and telling my wife that it didn't do a thing for the pain because I could tell it was a bad as it ever was but I just didn't care any more. It was awesome.
Ahh - good times! 8^)
I know for the short time I had the burst of euphoria before geiing ill, it felt damn good.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The prevalence of opiate addiction in the US is absolutely no justification for the pressure on doctors not to prescribe opiates. The drugs meant to replace opiates are fine supplements but worthless as replacements. It's sad there are addicts in the world and it is a real medical problem, we shouldn't deny even one person who an opiate would be marginally more effective at managing their pain that opiate to reduce the number of addicts. Especially because those measures don't work.
Which by the way, brings up one of the major failures of the war on drugs. Opiates. Many of the people who are now hooked on heroin, were once vicodin et al patients. So they get cut off from relatively benign drugs (the acetaminophen in Vicodin is more harmful) and turn to cheaper and illegal heroin. It's not the only group of course. But if people are using something like vicodin for a long time, th euse needs monitored and a withdrawal program needs to start.
One ting is for certain, there are two groups that want as many drugs as possible to be illegal. That's drug cartels and politicians. On this matter, they are on the same side.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
A Cuban medical degree is accepted in many countries (but not the US). Cuban doctors are highly sought-after all over the world.
Opium has been illegal for thousands of years so "obviously" that's a solved problem (sarcasm).
Read a history of opium and it's an expensive drug to produce by hand without technology. The reason it's been around for so long is because it actually works on many used-to-be-common diseases such as TB. With the rise of new anitbiotic-resistant superbugs, perhaps a resurgence in opium is to be expected.
On a political note, I wonder how much money Afghanistan could make if opium were legal and they were allowed to grow it there instead of having Tasmania be the only place they grow legal opium poppies.
"But if people are using something like vicodin for a long time, th euse needs monitored and a withdrawal program needs to start."
Not necessarily. We say "addicted" like it is this terrible and harmful thing that must be stopped at all costs. Everyone is addicted to sugar, most are addicted to caffeine, a huge portion of your insurance rates are because of people addicted to the endorphins your body generates in response to exercise.
Someone who takes Vicodine for a long time will be physically addicted to it without question. So long as the amount they take is limited to reasonable levels there is no particular reason to force them off it and frankly there is no moral justification for pretending you are their parent and have a right to even limit to those reasonable levels let alone restrict like we do now. We'd do far better spreading information about the risks, safe dosing, etc along with changing this attitude we spread to support addiction clinic business models. Quitting an addiction is damn hard and nobody has the right to judge but telling these people they can't do it on their own and have to give in to a higher power is just feeding into the self-reenforcing delusion that they can't quit or control their behavior. The only way to quit an addiction is to find the mental and psychological strength to break fight the part of yourself that doesn't want to quit and finds any excuse including "its too hard" to give in.
Morphine or another strong opiods, That's what they do that make them valuable dispite being addictive. They make you not care about pain or unpleasant things.
Not in this case at least. Opioids and I don't get along well, they dull the pain a little, then a momentary rush of euphoria, followed immediately by the room taking a 90 degree shift, and me breaking out in a sweat and puking.
Sounds like my reaction. If your body reacts like mine, you could have been given Ambian or another hypnotica sleep-medication. If it fails to work on me, it just makes me chatty and weird instead. I know in one procedure where they gave me something to drift of shortly, it didn't work but instead made me curios about what was going on and very chatty.