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Microsoft's H-1B Workers Cited In Motion That Successfully Blocked Trump's Travel Ban (geekwire.com)
"President Trump's travel ban is on hold," reports WGN. "A federal judge in Seattle blocked the executive order banning travelers from seven predominately Muslim countries." But Slashdot reader theodp noticed that the judge's temporary restraining order might've been responding to something specific: the motion argued Trump's executive order had been harmful because it impacted major tech companies in the state of Washington, including Microsoft. From the motion:
Washington's technology industry relies heavily on the H-1B visa program. Nationwide, Washington ranks ninth in the number of applications for high-tech visas. Microsoft, which is headquartered in Washington, employs nearly 5,000 people through the program. Other Washington companies, including Amazon, Expedia, and Starbucks, employ thousands of H-1B visa holders. Loss of highly skilled workers puts Washington companies at a competitive disadvantage with global competitors.
It was in response to the motion from Washington that the judge ultimately ruled that "the States have met their burden of demonstrating that they face immediate and irreparable injury as a result of signing and implementation of the Executive Order," citing its harm on the state's public universities -- and on its tax base. And Attorney General Bob Ferguson told GeekWire that he gave some credit for the judge's ruling to the declarations of support filed by Amazon and Expedia which specifically say that "Microsoft's U.S. workforce is heavily dependent on immigrants and guest workers. At least 76 employees at Microsoft are citizens of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Sudan, Libya, or Yemen and hold U.S. temporary work visas."
It was in response to the motion from Washington that the judge ultimately ruled that "the States have met their burden of demonstrating that they face immediate and irreparable injury as a result of signing and implementation of the Executive Order," citing its harm on the state's public universities -- and on its tax base. And Attorney General Bob Ferguson told GeekWire that he gave some credit for the judge's ruling to the declarations of support filed by Amazon and Expedia which specifically say that "Microsoft's U.S. workforce is heavily dependent on immigrants and guest workers. At least 76 employees at Microsoft are citizens of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Sudan, Libya, or Yemen and hold U.S. temporary work visas."
Skype.
Work remotely... they have Internet overseas.
At the time of writing, WE THE PEOPLE meant white male landowners.
Today, WE THE PEOPLE means the corporations.
Please, try to keep up.
I think the H-1B program should be expanded to other occupations. If medical insurance companies could import masses of low-paid foreign doctors and dentists, just think of how much that could cut the costs of insurance premiums!?!
Also, these judges seem and lawyers seem to be scarce and overpaid . . . let's replace them with cheap foreign imports!
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Not one word about translators and guides for the US army in Iraq who have served faithfully and got a visa after intense vetting as a reward. Not one word about the reliability of the vetting procedures already in place, the probability of inadvertently admitting terrorists on visa already issued or about substituting security theatre for security. Not one word about the justification (or lack thereof) of a measure that hits people who have lived here for 10+ years without problems and can't travel abroad because they'll be stopped at the border.
No. The only thing that counted was: Washington state filed a complaint that companies like Microsoft, Amazon, and Starbucks (not people !) have suffered immediate and irreparable (financial) loss. That was decisive.
Ugh. I'm getting a drink.
Hey! Corporations are people too! Anyway, the Muslim ban is just another of the burdensome regulations that are strangling small businesses. Aren't we supposed to be against regulations?
Trump has done one thing others have not been able to, and that's cut through the baloney. So quickly too. Microsoft participated in this lawsuit now, but yet they said or did nothing when DHS put travel restrictions from these very same countries last year.
Let's be honest. This is not about stopping a handful of employees traveling from these countries. It's about taking on Trump in order to protect the importing of cheap labor from abroad. You know the old saying "even the pope is replaceable." If your company is so reliant and dependent on employees from failed terrorists states like Somalia, then there is something really wrong with your company.
Posting as anon to prevent the doxing.
Section 1182(f) of the US Code reads: "Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate." In other words, the president has pretty much arbitrary power to decide who is and isn't allowed into the country. This is why it was lawful when President Obama banned all Iraqi refugees for six months in 2011. Also, the judge implies that aliens in foreign countries have Constitutional rights, which is complete lunacy.
Washington State has a sales tax. If an individual cannot enter the United States, that individual buy a pair of sneakers in Washington State, and the state is nearly instantaneously deprived of sales tax revenue. Retailers in Washington must file sales tax returns, and pay sales tax, as frequently as once per month. The State of Washington has already lost some sales tax revenue from the end of January, 2017, that would be owed in about 10 days (mid-February, 2017).
Washington's Solicitor General made a 100% factually correct argument about one aspect of the harm to the State, and the judge agreed.
That may be how the law works out in practice, but it's probably not the intent. I suspect that the law, like in most other countries, chiefly concerns itself with the rights of citizens and to a lesser degree with residents of the country. If a travel ban causes harm to aliens, law says "meh". However if it causes harm to citizens (and by extension: to corporations), then apparently the law states that the pros and cons have to be weighed against each other. Maybe there are laws that govern how visa and green card holders are to be treated, but those are different laws and that would be a different case.
I agree with the sentiment, though. Even if these people aren't US citizens, you'd think that the government would treat valid visas and green cards as a sort of contract, and that they would have an obligation at least to continue to honour it once issued. Unless there are immediate and substantial reasons not to. To be honest, I don't see any of the stated reasons for the ban either as valid or of sufficient consequence to warrant immediate action.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
So let me get this straight: a judge rules that since Microsoft in WA state relies on H-1B Visa slave labor—and Microsoft constitutes a large chunk of the WA state tax base—therefore the federal H-1B slave labor program cannot be suspended in the U.S. in any way because that would adversely impact some states' economies.
Didn't we already fight one civil war over this sort of issue? And this ruling was issued during Black History Month?
Consider my mind officially boggled by the blatant irony of this decision.
P.S. Lest you imagine I am just trolling, this was ironically the same appeals judge who proclaimed that “Black Lives Matter” in a hearing involving Seattle police reform.
...... Just sayin'. This judge has a tendency to preach from the bench.
Ref: http://www.washingtontimes.com...
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"Microsoft, which is headquartered in Washington, employs nearly 5,000 people through the program."
Yes, and those are ~4,999 jobs that could be filled by American workers instead of low-cost imported labor.
Sorry, but the H-1B program has become so abused that it's just a fucking joke. Apparently no one in America knows how to program in Java, Go, C#, or C++, and no one knows how to administer a database or a file system. We're all just too stupid to work on stuff we invented so we need to import "skilled" people from places where toilets are still a novelty.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Except apparently a corporation can be treated as a person when they see fit.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Do they have broadband in these countries - Somalia, Yemen, Sudan, et al? They'd need that to run Skype. I support the ban - our safety comes ahead of their convenience, but they could have relocated them to Turkey or Dubai and continued from there
Washington State's tax base is suffering because of a 120 day hold on issuing refugee visas to Somalis and Yemenis?
"I support the ban - our safety comes ahead of their convenience"
But does it increase your safety. What about other countries, what about those that get through anyway, what about 9/11 terrorists, 15 where from Saudi Arabia, two where from the United Arab Emirates, and one was from Egypt, and one was from Lebanon.
It's an artificial emergency so that a weak President can appear to be strong.
Nope. For it to be an analogy it has to be analogous to reality, not some just be some bullshit claim that happens to further the peecee agenda.
"I support the ban - our safety comes ahead of their convenience"
But does it increase your safety. What about other countries, what about those that get through anyway, what about 9/11 terrorists, 15 where from Saudi Arabia, two where from the United Arab Emirates, and one was from Egypt, and one was from Lebanon.
Not to mention that the number of terror-related deaths on American soil since 1975 caused by people from the seven countries in Trump's travel-ban is ... exactly zero.
People may feel safer with Trump's ban in force, but that doesn't mean they actually are. Trump played to his base with this order. Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and the UAE -- all countries with which Trump has business dealings -- are still off the hook.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
You apparently are that deranged, because you are pretending to defend an awful analogy that you can't actually bring yourself to defend, while not excusing the slightest whiff of hyperbole.
The similarity ends at the ban and canister shot both being very indiscriminate, which for the point of this discussion makes the two essentially different. Firing a cannon into a crowd at a fair will kill people for being at a very public event. The temporary immigration ban will not kill people, and the affected people have no legal right to enter the United States, unlike the general right of the public to attend a fair.
and i suppose the fact that the countries that DIDNT get banned , but DID attack the US , also happen to be the ones trump has business interests in, is purely coincidental .
like i said: stfu bigot.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
130 people killed? in the US?
we call that a normal day in America, every day.
and yes, most conservatives do propose doing nothing about that...and i bet, i just bet, that YOU Mr AC are also just fine with doing nothing about that particular problem.
hint: that's why the paris shooting was so shocking to them: France averages less than 190 firearm homicides per year. the paris shooting nearly doubled it for that year.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.