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BlackBerry Files Patent-Infringement Suit Against Nokia (bloombergquint.com)

Posted by msmash on from the patent-war dept.

An anonymous reader writes: BlackBerry has filed a patent-infringement lawsuit against Nokia, demanding royalties on the Finnish company's mobile network products that use an industrywide technology standard. Nokia's products including its Flexi Multiradio base stations, radio network controllers and Liquid Radio software are using technology covered by as many as 11 patents, BlackBerry said in a complaint filed in federal court in Wilmington, Delaware. The mobile network products and services are provided to companies including T-Mobile and AT&T for their LTE networks, BlackBerry said in the complaint. "Nokia has persisted in encouraging the use" of the standard- compliant products without a license from BlackBerry, it said.

53 comments

  1. Is this the internet? by For+a+Free+Internet · · Score: -1

    Can you see this, am I dfoing it right. Am I on the Web now or the Internit?

    --
    UNITE with the Campaign for a Free Internet because today, our future begins with tomorrow!
    1. Re:Is this the internet? by BeauSD · · Score: 0

      It is bad to be the loser in this case. Blackberry still has a little bit of product line left, Nokia doesnt even have one left to speak of. When I was much younger my dad came back every day and spent the evenings on his Blackberry talking to other people in the company. It did email and was indestructible. They didnt do enough innovation so Apple took over the whole market. Now you dont see anyone with a phone that isnt made by Apple anymore. Its called innovation. So what happens a lot of times I heard was when small companies are swirilling around the drain they sue each other to pick the other off to be bought/acquired by a bigger comapny so they themselves will be less of a target.

      Thats what is going on here. They are trying to sue Nokia so someone like Apple or MSFT picks them off like a hawk and then while the big company is distracted, they will make a comeback

    2. Re:Is this the internet? by DickBreath · · Score: 4, Informative

      > Apple took over the whole market.
      > Now you dont see anyone with a phone that isnt made by Apple anymore.

      You lost me right there. Alternate facts?

      With trivial Googling, I came up with this. Now that is data from 2nd quarter 2016. But it was the first quick thing I found.

      Market share for 2nd Q 2015: Android 82.2 %, iOS 14.6 %, Windows 2.5 %, Blackberry 0.3 %, others 0.4 %.
      Market share for 2nd Q 2016: Android 86.2 %, iOS 12.9 %, Windows 0.6 %, Blackberry 0.1 %, others 0.2 %.

      What that says is that from 2015 to 2016 only Android had any growth and everything else lost market share. I doubt that in the last year that trend has reversed. Less than a year ago, Android was a stone's throw from having 90 % of the market.

      As for "now you don't see anyone with a phone that isn't made by Apple anymore", I would argue that you don't see a anyone with a phone that isn't Android anymore. Made by all non-Apple manufacturers. In every size, shape, color, style, feature set and price range that you can imagine. Not the extremely limited product line made by Apple. When I see someone get out a smart phone, it is inevitably Android, seldom Apple. And this is in the real world. On vacation. Traveling for work. In every day life. Dr's office. Library. Grocery store. Etc. I don't think I live in an "Android bubble". So if you really see such a large number of iPhone users, I wonder if you are in some kind of "Apple bubble" or if it is a genuine phenomena in some region where you live, or what?

      As for companies engaging in litigation when they start to circle the drain, I agree completely.

      In other news Apple will fight "right to repair" laws. This makes me like Apple even less. Not only would I not ever buy their overpriced products, but they are going to try to prevent me from being able to repair my non-Apple products.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    3. Re:Is this the internet? by ctilsie242 · · Score: 2

      Which Nokia? The real Nokia which bought Alcatel-Lucent is making money hand over fist with their network management software and routers. In fact, good luck doing carrier-grade level networking without A-L hardware. Cisco isn't bad, but there is a difference between enterprise and carrier grade. Nokia also has device management software. They also have their own "carrier grade" cloud service (Cloudband) and are doing well with that.

      People think Nokia was just the smartphone company... but realistically, they are doing quite well... the fact that they are not as visible to the end consumer doesn't change much.

    4. Re:Is this the internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is bad to be the loser in this case. Blackberry still has a little bit of product line left, Nokia doesnt even have one left to speak of.

      You deny the existence of Nokia's products? I hope you don't work for a telecoms operator.

      Now you dont see anyone with a phone that isnt made by Apple anymore.

      Apple does not make phones and has never made phones (at least not in mass production). All production of Apple-branded phones is outsourced. Moreover, Apple has a market share of less than 15%, so even if Apple's phones were actually made by Apple, your claim would only be true for people who only hang out with Apple fanboys.

    5. Re:Is this the internet? by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

      I literally don't see many Android phones though. I'm not the guy you replied to, but my office uses iPhones, almost everyone here has a personal iPhone. When I had a windows phone, the Lumia 1520 I stood out since it was super huge and had the tiles. In my personal life I come across many people using older iPhones instead of using Androids. I know a couple of people with Samsung Edge phones, but it seems to be a rarity. But your numbers are world wide, not US.

    6. Re:Is this the internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your little microcosm doesn't mean that Apple has the dominant market share by any stretch of the imagination. That's like being in the military and saying, "Green is the most popular color." because all you see is a sea of green uniforms.

    7. Re:Is this the internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other news Apple will fight "right to repair" laws. This makes me like Apple even less. Not only would I not ever buy their overpriced products, but they are going to try to prevent me from being able to repair my non-Apple products.

      Apple is only trying to prevent you from being able to repair Apple products.

      The ban on non-apple product repair is just collateral damage to them.

    8. Re:Is this the internet? by danomac · · Score: 1

      Where I work (~120 employees) I've noticed more Android phones than iPhones, probably 65/35 with Android winning out. We do have people move from one platform to the other, but I've noticed more people going from iOS to Android than the other way around.

      Last few people I asked why they switched. When they went to Android it was cost. The few people switching to iOS from Android said they were given a free iPhone (as in: no contract renewal, they were literally given the phone from family/friends. They said they wouldn't have changed to iPhone otherwise.)

      That's still 40 or so iPhones here. Four to five years ago we had more iPhones than Android phones.

    9. Re:Is this the internet? by ReeceTarbert · · Score: 1

      It is bad to be the loser in this case. Blackberry still has a little bit of product line left, Nokia doesnt even have one left to speak of.

      It's about mobile network products, not phones and Nokia is still doing fairly well there, or there would be little reason to sue -- you don't sue someone with no money to pay up, do you?

      Even the summary says "The mobile network products and services are provided to companies including T-Mobile and AT&T for their LTE networks", so you're way off-topic here.

      RT.

    10. Re:Is this the internet? by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      Can you see this, am I dfoing it right. Am I on the Web now or the Internit?

      Now, wait.. You're jumping in a little too soon. After losing this suit and a troll..err...scroll of other suits, RIM/BlackBerry will declare that it created the Internet as we know it today, you know, because ummm... like... uhhhh..... there wouldn't be mobile-slanted stuff if.. they... didn't..start..it... uhhh.... and there would be...lke..no Internet without...it? *drools*

  2. Rimmed by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 5, Funny

    It would appear that Nokia are being Rimmed

    --

    Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    1. Re:Rimmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you've got it the other way round - BB wants Nokia to rim it.

    2. Re:Rimmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think BB will end up reamed.

    3. Re:Rimmed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I kid you not. I know a software engineer who found his first job on RIM's career site at the time: rim.jobs.

  3. Nokia 3310? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BlackBerry Files Patent-Infringement Suit Against Nokia

    Let me guess.... this is something to do with the up-coming relaunch of the Nokia 3310?

    1. Re:Nokia 3310? by Pascoea · · Score: 1

      Let me guess....this is something to do with the up-coming relaunch of the Nokia 3310?

      Guess again. It's the second sentence in the summary: "Nokia's products including its Flexi Multiradio base stations". In the article it says the suit is against Nokia Oyj, and they aren't in the phone business any more. 10 seconds on Google will tell you that HMD Global owns the rights to Nokia mobile handsets, and is re-releasing the 3310.

    2. Re:Nokia 3310? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me guess....this is something to do with the up-coming relaunch of the Nokia 3310?

      Guess again. It's the second sentence in the summary: "Nokia's products including its Flexi Multiradio base stations".

      In the article it says the suit is against Nokia Oyj, and they aren't in the phone business any more. 10 seconds on Google will tell you that HMD Global owns the rights to Nokia mobile handsets, and is re-releasing the 3310.

      Uh, yeah. previous post was an attempt at humor, not actually thinking that there might be a connection.

      It's funny. Laugh.

    3. Re:Nokia 3310? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10 seconds on Google will tell you that HMD Global owns the rights to Nokia mobile handsets, and is re-releasing the 3310.

      Just a few more seconds on google, and you might have come up with:
      http://www.nokia.com/en_int/news/releases/2016/12/01/nokia-brand-licensee-hmd-global-is-now-the-new-home-of-nokia-phones
      Owning and licensing are not quite the same.

    4. Re:Nokia 3310? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      It's funny. Laugh.

      Except it wasn't funny. No one has modded it as such. It was lame.

    5. Re:Nokia 3310? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 'new' 3310 won't be made or sold by Nokia. Nokia sold the rights to their brand for mobile phones to a third party.

    6. Re:Nokia 3310? by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

      So the summary is crappy and should have said "Nokia Oyj's products..." instead.

    7. Re: Nokia 3310? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False. Nokia DID NOT SELL the right to use its brand for consumer products. It is LICENSING the name. Big difference. Nokia Oyj is the sole owner of its brand for all products with that name. Microsoft previously had the right to use the brand till 2017 when it bought the devices business. Even they never owned the right to market products under the Nokia brand.

    8. Re:Nokia 3310? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would it be relevant to include the company type? It's very easy to find the full name for those that are interested. Moreover, the summary did not include 'Limited' in BlackBerry's name either.

    9. Re: Nokia 3310? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's another way of saying the same thing. However, I agree that the verb 'license' makes it more clear that the agreement covers a limited timespan.

  4. BB is officially dead by Desler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And the inevitable conclusion of a dying tech firm: serial patent litigator.

    1. Re:BB is officially dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a lazy summation of the situation and unworthy of the "Insightful" rating. BB is hardly dying, it has 2 billion in cash and rapidly growing software revenue. That they no longer make BB10 phones has been known for a long time now. Your post would have some credibility if you actually reviewed the merits of the lawsuit.

    2. Re:BB is officially dead by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Oh Christ defend us from the BB apologists. It has a large pile of cash from ye olden days, and while there's some QNX growth, it's hardly stellar. The company is a shell of what it used to be and has been fucking around with cash flows for a couple of years now by selling off assets.

      It is very much indeed well on its way to patent trolling, as was predicted as its hardware sales crashed.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:BB is officially dead by Desler · · Score: 1

      They no longer make any phones. They just license their name out.

    4. Re: BB is officially dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found a stockholder boys. Round em up.

    5. Re:BB is officially dead by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Nokia, however, are fighting back with their patent on "Creating great phones then suddenly becoming irrelevant"

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    6. Re:BB is officially dead by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      Peyton Manning is still a great quarterback! Look at all the money he has in the bank!

    7. Re:BB is officially dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still fail to see your point. Should BB simply never sue anybody and turns its patent portfolio over into the public domain? They are currently break-even and are likely going to generate a profit with their next quarterly report.
       
      Never fails to amaze me how much passion (for and against) BB generates.

    8. Re:BB is officially dead by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      I think BB should give investors back their money and fold up. They can spin off QNX if they really do think they have a hope in hell of ultimately outcompeting Google and the other RTOS offerings, but BB as a phone manufacturer is dead dead dead, and if all it's going to do is keep the scam going a few more years with its aging portfolio of patents, then all it really is doing is guaranteeing Chen and senior management undeserved salaries.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    9. Re:BB is officially dead by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      You either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain...

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    10. Re:BB is officially dead by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      Oh Christ defend us from the BB apologists. It has a large pile of cash from ye olden days, and while there's some QNX growth, it's hardly stellar. The company is a shell of what it used to be and has been fucking around with cash flows for a couple of years now by selling off assets.

      It is very much indeed well on its way to patent trolling, as was predicted as its hardware sales crashed.

      Blah, blah blah. It's so boring when you speak the truth. ;)
      </sarcasm>

  5. And so it begins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The last phase of a dying company is that it enters the patent trolling stage to milk revenue from others. Depending on the number and quality of the patents, a company can subsist on this business model for years, leeching money from companies that actually make products. There is no known way to destroy parasitic patent trolls.

    1. Re:And so it begins by sxpert · · Score: 2

      there is... kill those stupid patents as soon as they are used in a standard...

    2. Re: And so it begins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh yes there is.
      It's simple,come up with a new way to do the job that the existing patent covers,use the new (patented)method,if it's any good,you can licence it to others..
      This is precisely what letraset did when their original patent was coming to its end,they came up with a new,patentable method that was better and cheaper than the old one..

    3. Re:And so it begins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Obviously the patent was valuable enough that it was worth inclusion in the standard, so why should the patent be nulled? The proper response is to either avoid using encumbered patents or to pay up, otherwise anyone could invalidate patents simply by writing a standard that included them.

    4. Re:And so it begins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Of course you don't let "anyone" write a standard wiping out a patent, but you can still have unencumbered standards.

      Require one of two things to happen if a patent is used in a standard: Either the patent owner joins the standard, and its patent is free to all for the purpose of implementing the standard, or the owner asserts infringement, and the whole standard dies a painful death with massive disgrace on the people who published it without securing agreement from the patent owners.

      Note that use outside the standard can still require a license, for example the wireless radios that can operate in either 802.11a/b/g/n/ac mode or proprietary timeslice-reservation modes might well need a license that a product operating only in standard-compliant mode does not.

      Require a patent search and "title insurance" before any law can require compliance to that standard.

    5. Re:And so it begins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Works for microsoft, death throws can take a long time, the lawyers like it that way.

    6. Re:And so it begins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why we used a death trebuchet instead of a death throw (throe).

    7. Re: And so it begins by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      For all we know right now that's exactly what Nokia did. And now they get to spend half a million dollars trying to prove it.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  6. *points and laughs* by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    That's like a zombie wanting to eat the brains of another zombie.

    1. Re:*points and laughs* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nokia may have absorbed most of its former competition, but they paid for it fair and square. No soulless sneaking up from behind...

      BlackBerry, on the other hand, is indeed kind of like a zombie. Once one of the major smartphone manufacturers (when Nokia still made phones and dominated that business, ironically), now not much more than a footnote in telecoms history.

    2. Re:*points and laughs* by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      That's like a zombie wanting to eat the brains of another zombie.

      Hey now, you wouldn't be able to see what the brains of a zombie look like on your mobile phone if it weren't for BlackBerry's radio technology. They, not the service providers, Siemens, Motorola, etc made everything!!!!!!! Now where do I put the trademark symbol again, after or before the exclamation points? Do I have to use caps?

  7. Tarring and feathering. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think we should re-introduce a couple of medieval amusemets, especially reserved for some high-level CEOs.
    Perhaps that would restore some of the currently missing social cohesion.
    Just imagine some CEOs bound naked to a random village pump. I'd travel there. I'd pay to see that, for sure.

  8. Bedpan files suit against Outhouse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Abacus files suit against Adding Machine
    Scribe files suit against Typewriter ...

  9. The last one to die, wins! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This looks like two rats on a sinking ship, fighting over the last piece of cheese.

  10. Popcorn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BlackBerry and Nokia in a patent suit :)

  11. Better still, and simpler, - by evanh · · Score: 1

    If the patents no longer protect any product the patents should be voided. Otherwise the patent system gets trolled into garbage disrepute.

  12. Sadness. by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

    Aww, and Blackberry Looked like it was coming back. Faces certain doom now.