System76 Refreshes Ubuntu Linux Laptops With Intel Kaby Lake, NVIDIA GTX 10 Series, and 4K (betanews.com)

The only problem is... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 07:26 · Score: 0

...they're still running Ubuntu.

Re:The only problem is... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 08:26 · Score: 0

...they're still running Ubuntu.
You are free to re-install whatever Linux distro you like.
Re:The only problem is... by unixisc · 2017-02-18 03:22 · Score: 1

Do they provide Steam as well? Or have a SteamOS option? That would really be welcome
Re:The only problem is... by exomondo · 2017-02-19 10:43 · Score: 1

Do they provide Steam as well? Or have a SteamOS option? That would really be welcome
Just install it yourself. Installers have been incredibly simple for a very long time. I doubt there are many people who know what SteamOS is and want it but are perplexed by the installer.

I Looked at System76 by RobotRunAmok · 2017-02-17 07:28 · Score: 4, Interesting

...when I sent my daughter off to college last Fall. Figured it might be nice for her to have someone beside Dear Ol' Dad to call if she had some complicated Linux problems (she can handle the simple and medium problems). Then I saw how much they were charging! Could not justify the expense, even with whatever phonecall time it might save me. Bought a Lenovo and had her roll her own OS into it. She, and my wallet, are both way better for it...

Re: I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 07:38 · Score: 5, Funny

A Lenovo? You're a horrible father.
sudo apt-get new-father
Re: I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 07:44 · Score: 1

No!
sudo yum -y new-father
Re: I Looked at System76 by wolrahnaes · 2017-02-17 08:00 · Score: 1

No, definitely the first one. Apt > yum by a long shot.

--
I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
Re: I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 08:00 · Score: 1

No!
sudo yum -y new-father
./configure --new-father
Re: I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 08:12 · Score: 0

What?!? You don't do:
br>./configure; make; make install;
You must be new here.
Re:I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 08:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

Then I saw how much they were charging!
I have no complaints concerning the price of System76 laptops--I'm willing to pay a premium for hardware that works well with open source software. Nevertheless, there are two things that prevent me from purchasing a laptop from System76.
(1) I want to see detailed technical specifications for the laptops. For example, I may wish to install an unusual (non-Linux) operating system on the laptop, and I would like to be able to verify that the hardware will be supported by the operating system. I'm not asking System76 to verify hardware compatibility--I'm only asking that they describe their hardware in enough detail that I can verify compatibility on my own. For example, what ethernet NIC does the laptop use? What wireless card? (In contrast, Lenovo provides detailed specifications at http://psref.lenovo.com/)
(2) I want a laptop with a built-in DVD drive. Even Lenovo offers laptops with DVD drives, but System76 does not.
Re:I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 08:22 · Score: 0

Their prices are higher, but they're serving a niche market. They're vastly more reasonable than their predecessors. It used to be that buying a linux compatible laptop added like 50-100% to the price. Now it's like 10-20%.
I think they're doing okay on price. They're not gonna end up being cheaper. OEMs barely pay anything for Windows licenses and work with so much hardware they can operate on thin margins. And if you're really frugal, and not picky, it seems even cheaper cause you get to buy their failed hardware when they mark it down to get rid of it.
Re: I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 08:28 · Score: 0

No!
sudo yum -y new-father
Sudo is for wimps. I always log in as root.
Re: I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 09:17 · Score: 0

Come on man, that's not called for. Just do:
"Apt-get upgrade"
Re:I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 09:24 · Score: 3, Informative

In the past, System76 laptops were just rebranded Clevos, which are sold in the U.S. by Sager. This is true of most boutique laptop providers. Theoretically, System76 does extra work to insure Linux works seamlessly on these laptops, but I've had zero issues getting Linux to work on the Clevo that I purchased. Certainly, these laptops aren't perfect, but I do believe the Clevo has some of the best value for the dollar in their laptop line. My biggest complaints are that their mechanical components are only OK.
To give an example, a two minute check for their Gazelle:
https://system76.com/laptops/g...
Tells me that it's probably a rebrand from the Clevo W650 line:
http://www.clevo.com.tw/clevo_...
Clevo tends to refresh their lines pretty often, so it's sometimes hard to get the exact model, but not impossible. Searching by laptop dimensions is the fastest way to get into the ballpark.
Re:I Looked at System76 by JoeMerchant · 2017-02-17 11:09 · Score: 1

Clearly, you are paying for your own equipment... your employer's cost per hour of your time is far more expensive than your net salary per hour - when your employer is paying for one of these, it can actually be a "good deal."
Re:I Looked at System76 by jon3k · 2017-02-17 13:41 · Score: 1

(2) I want a laptop with a built-in DVD drive. Even Lenovo offers laptops with DVD drives, but System76 does not.
What do you still use a DVD drive for? Just curious.
Re: I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 14:05 · Score: 0

meh, my children all reparent to init
Re: I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 14:11 · Score: 0

You're kidding me right? Dpkg/apt has stagnated for the last decade whereas yum/dnf/rpm has improved by leaps and bounds to the poi my where I would say that it is vastly superior to the apt ecosystem. What's the equivalent to things like koji/mock/bohdi ecosystem? Cowbuilder... Don't make me laugh...
Re: I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 14:15 · Score: 0

Bullcrap, if you're installing untested, unverified binaries on prod systems... Shit, if you're installing compilers on prod systems we're going to have some serious arguments... To put it politely..
Re:I Looked at System76 by Cmdln+Daco · 2017-02-17 14:19 · Score: 1

What do you use a keyboard for?
Seriously? There are voice interfaces, you know.
Re: I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 14:22 · Score: 0

Configure; make; make install?
You must be not so old here.
vi Makefile
make && make install
Re: I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 14:48 · Score: 0

Cowbuilder
I totally want to make a multi-layer burger now...
Re:I Looked at System76 by kuzb · 2017-02-17 21:48 · Score: 1

Their "niche" market is basically covered by any number of other vendors, so it's not really niche. Buy a laptop from somewhere else, install Linux. What you pay extra for is hardware that is guaranteed to run properly under Linux. Of course, you could just research this yourself and save your money. Why bother with their overpriced solution at all.

--
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Re:I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 22:42 · Score: 0

...when I sent my daughter off to college last Fall. Figured it might be nice for her to have someone beside Dear Ol' Dad to call if she had some complicated Linux problems (she can handle the simple and medium problems). Then I saw how much they were charging! Could not justify the expense, even with whatever phonecall time it might save me. Bought a Lenovo and had her roll her own OS into it. She, and my wallet, are both way better for it...
If it's an IdeaPad or similar, shame on you.
If it's a ThinkPad, on the other hand...
Re:I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 22:50 · Score: 0

And I want a laptop without the damn US keyboard. Even the UK keyboard (1 extra key) needs decals on it to cope with the Fin/Swe keyboard.
Think they provide it? Nope.
Re: I Looked at System76 by unixisc · 2017-02-18 03:26 · Score: 1

make install is what Daddy did, not his little girl. Daughter can do apt get
./configure; make sex; make install daughter
Re: I Looked at System76 by unixisc · 2017-02-18 03:30 · Score: 2

Wouldn't systemd solve all their life's problems?
Re:I Looked at System76 by unixisc · 2017-02-18 03:35 · Score: 1

Then I saw how much they were charging!
I have no complaints concerning the price of System76 laptops--I'm willing to pay a premium for hardware that works well with open source software. Nevertheless, there are two things that prevent me from purchasing a laptop from System76.
(1) I want to see detailed technical specifications for the laptops. For example, I may wish to install an unusual (non-Linux) operating system on the laptop, and I would like to be able to verify that the hardware will be supported by the operating system. I'm not asking System76 to verify hardware compatibility--I'm only asking that they describe their hardware in enough detail that I can verify compatibility on my own. For example, what ethernet NIC does the laptop use? What wireless card? (In contrast, Lenovo provides detailed specifications at http://psref.lenovo.com/)
(2) I want a laptop with a built-in DVD drive. Even Lenovo offers laptops with DVD drives, but System76 does not.
If you want to install a non-Linux OS (assuming that it's not a BSD either), why are you going for System 76? The only reason to go that route is if you want a Linux laptop, or maybe even a BSD. While you could wipe Ubuntu and put in a distro of your choice, I believe System 76 would only support you on Ubuntu.
If specs are important to you, then yeah, go w/ a Lenovo or an Asus. Incidentally, which OS did you wanna install?
Re:I Looked at System76 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-19 10:46 · Score: 0

and had her roll her own OS into it.
Dufuq is that even supposed to mean? These redundant metaphors for computing are getting ever more ridiculous.

Shade, eh? by fyngyrz · 2017-02-17 07:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

The computer seller throws some shade at Apple by saying, "The HiDPI displays that ship on the laptops have 3.1 million more pixels than Apple's 'Retina' displays

You can't "throw shade" at Apple over hardware capabilities in any meaningful way unless you can run OS X / macOS and its applications. Otherwise, you're in the position of a cruise ship boasting that it has roll stabilization in order to try and "shade" a luxury hotel. Pomegranates and kumquats. Irrelevant.

And I say that as a very unhappy Apple hardware user.

--
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.

Re:Shade, eh? by MachineShedFred · 2017-02-17 07:55 · Score: 2

If the pixels are under the DPI where your eye can even tell at a reasonable usage distance, does it matter if they are there or not?
Sounds like 3.1 million more pixels that need to be redrawn 60 times a second for not a lot more value added. Except for marketing, because they all believe that more is always better.

--
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Re:Shade, eh? by mspohr · 2017-02-17 08:05 · Score: 2

I assume that you think OS X is somehow superior to other OSs. As an primary OS X user (as well as Linux and Windows occasionally) for the past 7 years, I beg to differ. I've always found OS X to be kludgy, toylike and lacking features. I never could get used to its special keys (especially command and option) as well as the odd keyboard layout (no backspace???).
I'm much more comfortable with Linux and its applications. I gave up on Apple hardware and have now adopted Chromebooks (with Crouton Linux) for all my work. Much nicer user experience and better software options.

--
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Re:Shade, eh? by fyngyrz · 2017-02-17 08:22 · Score: 2

I assume that you think OS X is somehow superior to other OSs.
No.OS X plus the applications I am using form a computing ecosystem that is superior to anything I might plop down on my desk that would be fundamentally unable to perform the same tasks unless I put out a great deal of money, time and energy that is absolutely not necessary in any way, shape or form. Adding extra pixels won't do any of that.

I never could get used to its special keys (especially command and option) as well as the odd keyboard layout (no backspace???).
My keyboard has dedicated backspace and delete, which OS X understands perfectly well. Among many other amenities. I have no idea what you're talking about. Is this some kind of historical reference? As for not being able to get used to command and option... not relevant to me in any way. I have no problem with them. Or with switching back and forth when I'm working with Windows and Linux keyboards.

I'm much more comfortable with Linux and its applications. I gave up on Apple hardware and have now adopted Chromebooks (with Crouton Linux) for all my work. Much nicer user experience and better software options.
Wonderful.

--
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Re:Shade, eh? by dave562 · 2017-02-17 08:32 · Score: 1

They also seem to be trying to appeal to "video and photo professionals". I used to work in Hollywood and I know plenty of 'creative' people. I do not know a single person using Ubuntu, or any Linux distribution, for professional multimedia work.
Beyond that, how many people who are using Gimp because they are too cheap to pay for Photoshop, have $4000+ to spend on one of these laptops?
Re:Shade, eh? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 08:52 · Score: 0

I assume that you think OS X is somehow superior to other OSs.
Generally speaking, I'll go with "yes". There are some ways in which it's lacking, but generally, as an everyday OS, I'd have to say that it is superior to the alternatives.

As an primary OS X user (as well as Linux and Windows occasionally) for the past 7 years, I beg to differ.
As a primary OS X user for 7+ years as well (and a frequent Windows and Linux user for longer), I say bully for you. You're entitled to your opinion.

I've always found OS X to be kludgy, toylike and lacking features.
As opposed to what? Windows has been kludgy and lacking features since the start. Look at VIsta, Windows 8 and Windows 10. Calling those kludgy would be generous. And as to toylike, have you seen Windows XP? That has Fisher-Price baked in. What about Win8/10? The brightly-coloured blocks are straight out of pre-school. And point me to a Linux desktop that isn't kludgy or lacking in some features. (Some may have features that appear to be lacking but require some deep diving to figure out how to use, so for general consideration, they might as well be lacking.)

I never could get used to its special keys (especially command and option)
To each their own. They're no different than the Win-key and Alt. Getting used to the Win-key was annoying when it was first introduced. The Cmd key has been around since the Mac's introduction and has been used consistently all along.

as well as the odd keyboard layout

There's nothing odd about the keyboard layout. It's laid out no differently than any other keyboard. (And before you bring up Home/End, PgUp/PgDn, those are far from standard. Use six different models of notebook computer and odds are good you'll be dealing with those in six different layouts. Apple just hid the functionality behind Fn+arrow keys instead of scattering extra keys around.)

(no backspace???).
Can't disagree there; that one's annoying. I've gotten used to the backward behaviour, but it is definitely something you need to get used to. That said, if you really want the expected functionality, hold the Fn key when tapping Backspace and it'll behave as you expect it to.
Re:Shade, eh? by DamnOregonian · 2017-02-17 09:31 · Score: 2

Not saying this is you, because I know nothing of your preferences...

But Apple guys always scoffing at anything more being a waste until apple leapfrogs the competition and now provides more. Then it's revolutionary.
Re:Shade, eh? by DamnOregonian · 2017-02-17 09:33 · Score: 1

Wellllll, I can easily afford one of these laptops... But ya, I still use Gimp. And OpenOffice.

It's not even a matter of superiority, it's a matter of value. I don't perceive enough value in one of the high-priced market offerings to justify spending the money for me. Sure, I could afford a single-chair Photoshop license... But when Gimp does what I need without having to pay for it... why the hell pay for it? ePenis length?
Re:Shade, eh? by amiga3D · 2017-02-17 09:54 · Score: 4, Informative

I'm on my last Apple laptop it seems. A 2012 15" MacBook Pro with i7 2.3ghz quadcore. It's fabulous but it's been nothing but downhill for Apple hardware since. Every step they take is backwards. When this one dies I'm going to have to make Linux work for everything I do. I didn't mind paying too much for hardware that was useful. Now you pay too much for crap you didn't want while the stuff you liked is removed.
Re:Shade, eh? by rthille · 2017-02-17 10:02 · Score: 1

Reading your post on a 15"MBP Retina display with the display running at full rez (>>what stock OSX will let you run it at) and the amount of screen real estate is awesome. More than on the 27" Dell sitting next to it. Yes people I work with complain they have trouble reading it, but I do fine with it. I wouldn't need that if @#$@# app & web devs didn't waste so much space these days, but what can I do...

--
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Re:Shade, eh? by dave562 · 2017-02-17 10:14 · Score: 1

What are you using for video editing?
Has any of your work been broadcast?
How about your print work? Is it in any publications? Online anywhere?
Are you really making a living doing creative work, or is it a professional hobby of yours?
Re:Shade, eh? by DamnOregonian · 2017-02-17 12:23 · Score: 1

Just hobby- I wasn't trying to imply that I'm a professional... I'm a software engineer, not a digital arts guy.

Beyond that, how many people who are using Gimp because they are too cheap to pay for Photoshop, have $4000+ to spend on one of these laptops?
That's what I meant to reply to...

Now to the point of professionals and software suites, I do have some interesting anecdotes... Where I work, our executive in charge of the graphic designers (an older gentleman) uses Photoshop exclusively, but 2 of our youngest graphic designers use Ubuntu laptops and Gimp. We don't do video, so I can't answer to that.
Re:Shade, eh? by jon3k · 2017-02-17 13:43 · Score: 2

First of all I'd love to hear some examples. But second of all, who are these "Apple people" and was it the exact same people saying this before and after?
Re:Shade, eh? by jon3k · 2017-02-17 13:51 · Score: 1

If you couldn't get used to the keyboard after 7 years the problem isn't the keyboard, it's what's between the keyboard and the chair.

I don't use a Mac but I could damn sure figure it out in 7 years.
Re: Shade, eh? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 14:23 · Score: 0

Thank you,
I don't make a living doing video, I make a living writing code... I use a a laptop with linux/fedora and it more than suits my needs, including the occasional photo/video editing
Re:Shade, eh? by Cmdln+Daco · 2017-02-17 14:25 · Score: 1

You apparently need to understand that 'creative professionals' almost exclusively use Macs.
Except Adobe now treats Mac like the secondary platform.
And a lot of 'creative professionals' don't work on computers at all, except for regular use of what is convenient for them.
The whole 'Apple Creative Professional' thing is about ten years stale at this point. People are bound to cling to it as part of their identity, of course.
Re:Shade, eh? by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2017-02-17 14:36 · Score: 1

I'd just like if web and app devs would not assume that everybody runs every program fullscreen and size *everything* according to the screen res instead of the program window's actual dimensions. C'mon, it's not like the browser and OS make this information difficult to obtain.
Yes, I'm looking at you, Slashdot. (Among many, many others.)

--
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Re:Shade, eh? by MachineShedFred · 2017-02-18 01:58 · Score: 1

Nope, that's not me. I have a problem wherever marketing's insatiable need for bigger numbers trumps actual engineering and common sense. Much like when Intel just kept deepening the pipeline on Pentium 4 in order to ramp clock speed, even though they were making a worse CPU due to branch prediction misses. Because Mhz sells.
Apple is making these mistakes right now, but screen resolution isn't one of them. 4K resolution makes a difference on a 27" panel and above, not so much at 15" WQXGA or on the 350+ DPI phones we already have. It's all marketing if the pixels are already small enough that you can't discern them without holding it an inch from your face. Why do they need to be smaller and more numerous, creating additional load for the hardware (read: shorter battery life, less frames per second) just to check a box on the misguided marketing requirements document?

--
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Re: Shade, eh? by mspohr · 2017-02-18 02:29 · Score: 1

The main problem is switching back and forth between OSX command key and Linux control key for the same functions.

--
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Re: Shade, eh? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-19 09:28 · Score: 0

Typical Apple user. The response to no backspace key is to press Fn+backspace key. Fucking genius we got here.

Awesome company by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 07:29 · Score: 0

Its really awesome to have companies focusing only on GNU/Linux as the OS they ship with.

4K by Hognoxious · 2017-02-17 07:35 · Score: 0

4K - is that the price?

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."

Re:4K by RavenLrD20k · 2017-02-17 08:01 · Score: 4, Informative

I just designed a Bonobo for shits and giggles with dual 1080 SLI, 16GB DDR4, two 2TB HDDs, and 867 Mbps WiFi, with a 3 year P&L Warranty leaving the rest of the blocks at the defaults. 4K is almost 1K too low. Total came to $4,892.
Re:4K by cfalcon · 2017-02-17 10:56 · Score: 4, Insightful

System 76 is a pretty good value for the machine you get. Lets go over your choices to build a ~$5000 machine.
> dual 1080 SLI
Yes, that would be expensive. It's SLI on a friggin laptop. The "low end" option is a GTX 1070, which totally blows away what you can get on, say, an Apple. The dual 1080 SLI option adds 1500 bucks to the price. This is what you would expect, and also, not something you would buy unless you were actually sure you wanted it. This is a top end graphics card, and you're talking TWO of them in a laptop. This alone is 30% of the price.
> two 2TB HDDs
Lets be clear here: included in the price is an 256 GB SSD. You are adding two additional 2.5" HDDs to this.
The 5 thousand dollar machine you built has a top of the line (which commands a VAST premium) Nvidia graphics card, then it has A SECOND ONE OF THOSE. It has THREE storage media- an SSD, and two HDDs. That sounds about right.
Note that in raw power, this machine totally blows away anything offered by Apple, which can't progress beyond a middle of the line Radeon, and I'm pretty damned sure it can't do three media. Heck, I think the option on that is just a big SSD (which the Bonobo also offers in the configurator). I can't even get close to these specs on Alienware, where I couldn't find the option to get TWO friggin GTX 1080s, nor THREE media in the rig.
My view: If you need the hardware you selected, this is a good deal for it, and you'd be hard pressed to find it at most mainstream shops, because the options chosen are wildly excessive for most users. The main name brands don't even offer this sort of stuff, it's super packed with metal.
Re:4K by RavenLrD20k · 2017-02-20 01:52 · Score: 1

Please note... I wasn't complaining about the price. I was just noting for Hog- who made the commentary about 4K being the price instead of the screen resolution that yes it could very well have been the price. The laptop as designed has roughly the same CPU Cores & threads, twice the GPU, and 1/4 of the storage of my desktop. Also note that my tower is running an i7-4790K O.C. to 4.8GHz, so although a little faster, it's several generations behind. I paid roughly $2,500 for the tower. I fully expected a laptop with the same power specs to easily be twice as much in price. To have a laptop system that's on current gen processing with twice as much GPU cost just less than 2x what I put into my tower, I'd definitely consider that a good deal. I just don't need a laptop with those specs right now.

terrible names by The-Ixian · 2017-02-17 07:40 · Score: 1

I guess they are going for the "wild animal" theme for their names. It looks like they order them in "strength" of the animal with small mammals being the low end of each line, hooved quadrupeds at the mid-level and great apes at the high end.

I just think the whole thing is stupid... who wants a desktop called "Wild Dog Pro"?

It's a neat concept and all, selling pre-configured Linux laptops, desktops and servers but I just would not be able to tell people that I am running a "Bonobo WS" (WS?) computer with a straight face... Let alone look at the name every time I sit down at my computer or pull out my laptop.

--
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.

Re:terrible names by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 07:51 · Score: 0

WS as WorkStation I guess?
Re:terrible names by The-Ixian · 2017-02-17 07:55 · Score: 1

I was thinking the same thing except their highest end server is called Silverback WS...

--
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
Re:terrible names by Holi · 2017-02-17 08:24 · Score: 1

Nah the Ibex Pro is their highest end server, the Silverback is a Xeon workstation:

"The Intel® XEON based Silverback WS features workstation class capabilities, offering maximum throughput and accuracy."

--
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Re:terrible names by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 10:01 · Score: 0

I guess they are going for the "wild animal" theme for their names. It looks like they order them in "strength" of the animal with small mammals being the low end of each line, hooved quadrupeds at the mid-level and great apes at the high end.
I just think the whole thing is stupid... who wants a desktop called "Wild Dog Pro"?
It's a neat concept and all, selling pre-configured Linux laptops, desktops and servers but I just would not be able to tell people that I am running a "Bonobo WS" (WS?) computer with a straight face... Let alone look at the name every time I sit down at my computer or pull out my laptop.
Would you rather tell people that you have 'Yakety Yak' as your OS, or that your phone runs 'Nougat'?
Silly computer names are in. Bonobo isn't any worse than others. And the laptop doesn't say 'Bonobo' on it, it says 'System 76', like how the branding on a laptop usually works.
Re:terrible names by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 13:57 · Score: 0

WTF! So the nomenclature is a deal breaker for you? Not I. I own two Sys76 lappies.
Re:terrible names by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2017-02-17 15:43 · Score: 1

What's wrong with animal names? My machines are all named after fish--my laptop is "havskatt" (Swedish for "harbour catfish") and my desktop is "valhaj" ("whale shark"). Lots more sensible then naming them after, say, candy bars IMO.

--
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.

Big and Ugly by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 07:44 · Score: 0

No thank you

Re:Big and Ugly by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2017-02-17 15:48 · Score: 1

Relevant questions in this situation are, "Will it handle my workload?", "How much does it cost?", "What kind of warranty does it come with?", and "Will it fit in my laptop bag?"
Do my employers pay me to make a fashion statement? No, they do not. So gives a rat's ass what it looks like?

--
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.

Prefer these guys over Windows/Mac by AnthonywC · 2017-02-17 07:56 · Score: 1

Typing this on a system76 Oryx Pro (work asked me to choose between Mac or Linux). Their Lemur lineup wasn't out yet at the time but it'd be the one I'd get today with 14' + 32G RAM

Re:Prefer these guys over Windows/Mac by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 09:06 · Score: 0

14'
So, is it humongous - 14 feet - or tiny - 14 arc minutes?
(Laptop screens are measured in inches, which are abbreviated with a double quote mark ", not a single quote '.)
Re:Prefer these guys over Windows/Mac by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 09:22 · Score: 0

Yep, I'm on my second Gazelle (not ready to give up the optical drive). I dumped the Ubuntu for debian as my standard practice until the whole systemd debacle. I went with System 76 to not have to deal with Windows. Ubuntu was too close and then systemd. It's hard to be a rebel :). Running Gentoo now.
Re:Prefer these guys over Windows/Mac by by+(1706743) · 2017-02-17 09:38 · Score: 1

I'm guessing 14 arc minutes, when viewed from an appropriate distance...

Paid Ad? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 08:20 · Score: 0

Did System76 pay for this advertisement?

Re:Paid Ad? by cfalcon · 2017-02-17 10:58 · Score: 1

Maybe, but probably not. System76 deserves some attention as a top tier integrator for Linux laptops. They appear to be the roughest analogy to Apple in Linux-land. The last time System76 made noise, here on slashdot we mostly shit on them for having such pricy laptops that didn't have a 4K option. Well, now they do. It's clearly of interest to slashdotters, as we chided them on it last time.

Re:Crickets. by tattood · 2017-02-17 08:23 · Score: 1

The Linux destktop is as dead as the democrat party.

Duh, these are laptops, dummy.

--
WTB [sig], PST!!!

Num pads on laptops by afgam28 · 2017-02-17 08:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

One thing that I can't stand about these machines is that they have a num pad, which pushes the main keyboard and the touchpad way to the left of the device. This means you have to sit either with your arms pointing to the left, or your head pointing to the right.

The number of users who would benefit from a num pad are few and far between, and they could just use a USB num pad.

Strangely, there are only a few laptop manufacturers that align the center of the screen with the center of the keyboard and touchpad. I hope System 76 fixes this one day, because I'd love to replace my MacBook with a Linux laptop.

Re:Num pads on laptops by TechyImmigrant · 2017-02-17 08:48 · Score: 1

> One thing that I can't stand about these machines is that they have a num pad
Oh dear. I didn't spot that. It's now not an option.

--
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Re:Num pads on laptops by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 10:46 · Score: 1

It is utterly puzzling that this has become such widespread a problem. It doesn't take a genius to recognize the ergonomic benefits of a centered input devices, and fewer keys should make the device cheaper as well. Maybe it is only a few cents, but manufacturers are ever eager to cut corners elsewhere, so why not here, where less really is more?
If they are pushing full keyboards because they imagine that it is a "pro" feature, a 3:2 display would be a much more attractive selling point. A quality etched glass multitouch trackpad would also be a plus. It is frustrating that reviews rarely even give mention to such important points.
Re:Num pads on laptops by cfalcon · 2017-02-17 11:24 · Score: 4, Interesting

I mean, all the laptops I've ever owned, including my two current but now older dudes, have a numpad. I wouldn't personally consider a laptop without one. It really is interesting that it is contentious.
Re:Num pads on laptops by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 13:18 · Score: 1

Ergonomics be damned? Why exactly is a fixed number pad so indispensable on a portable device? Your empty argument for the status quo stinks of Luddism, and isn't particularly friendly to left-handed people either. Would you like to mandate where the mouse goes too?
Re:Num pads on laptops by cfalcon · 2017-02-17 14:47 · Score: 2

> Ergonomics be damned?
I mean, we are talking a shift of like an inch or two. Is that a big deal nowadays somehow? We are in a world with thumb keyboards instead of some chorded trickery that uses all your fingers, which would be faster and more ergonomic, and most people use QWERTY keyboards, which are ludicrously unergonomic and....
> isn't particularly friendly to left-handed people either ...isn't particularly friendly to right-handed people, what with almost all the frequent keys being under the left hand.
There's no inherent rule implying that a numpad must be used with the dominant hand, any more than there's a rule implying that your dominant hand should have the E, T, and A keys under it (the three most common letters in English, all under the left hand on those idiotic QWERTY keyboards you continue to use your whole fucking life).
A numpad is only shitty if you never use it. Maybe you never have cause to type in numbers. That's just bizzare to me. I've also never seen anything implying, at any point, that a numpad is easier to use with your dominant hand. Plenty of studies showing that you are using a keyboard that is vastly more likely to cause long term injuries, and no one gives a fuck about that.
Re:Num pads on laptops by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2017-02-17 15:54 · Score: 1

I won't buy a laptop that doesn't have a numeric keypad.
Why should I (a) have to move my hand well away from the keyboard to type in long numbers (e.g. 8-digit bug numbers) and (b) cart around an extra peripheral that eats up a USB port for no good reason?
And did I mention that I'm left-handed?
HAND.

--
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Re:Num pads on laptops by eionmac · 2017-02-18 11:20 · Score: 1

Essential. if you do any scientific number work or in normal business accountancy of bookkeeping.
I do not buy any laptop which is without a number pad. 7 Laptops with number pads in use in the house.

--
Regards Eion MacDonald

How bright are these new screens? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 08:36 · Score: 1

We bought around a dozen of Sager laptops in Octoboer so we could get 64 GB of RAM with 4k displays since our 16 GB MacBooks were just swapping so much it was painful to develop. We're in a top floor southwest-facing corner open office, and the screens were just too dim to use in the afternoon. I think all of the developers switched back to the much slower MacBooks because of the screens. Are the System 76 ones better than Sager? The Sager ones were nearly as bad as Dell.

Re:How bright are these new screens? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 09:12 · Score: 0

We have several of the System 75 Bonobo laptops that were over $5k with RAID 1 1TB PCIe SSDs and 64 GB of RAM with 17" HiDPI displays. They're great laptops except for screen brightness. A MacBook at half of the price beats the hell out of them wrt being able to read code. Several engineers have downgraded to much slower MacBooks because they can't read the screens. I think all of them are over forty so maybe if you're younger and have better vision the poor quality screens will be good enough, but I know reading speed is important so even if it isn't a blocker, it still can slow you down.
Re: How bright are these new screens? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 09:24 · Score: 1

Might I suggest window-blinds?
Re: How bright are these new screens? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 09:42 · Score: 0

And block our very expensive view of the Puget Sound and downtown Seattle?
Re: How bright are these new screens? by Cmdln+Daco · 2017-02-17 14:31 · Score: 1

Well, you're posing.
Here's your Mac, then!
Re: How bright are these new screens? by Zontar+The+Mindless · 2017-02-17 15:55 · Score: 1

Aren't you supposed to be looking at the screen and not the scenery in any case?

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Il n'y a pas de Planet B.

For the people who can buy a nice laptop by TechyImmigrant · 2017-02-17 08:46 · Score: 5, Informative

I'm a potential customer of one of these or new MBP. These seem like the only two options for a high end laptop these days. So I priced them out for a similar config.

I compared as close a config as I could between a optioned up mac and Oryx.
So that means 15", because the Oryx only offers the hires display on 15".
Apple only offer 16GB ram on 15" models, so that's what I set it to on Oryx
Oryx only offer up to 1TB on nvme, where Apple allow 2TB. But on the Oryx you can have second drive, so I added 1 TB SSD.
The graphics card options are not choices since you need the max Orix option for the high res display.

Apple: 15.4" retina display 2880x1800. Radeon 455 4GB. 2.8GHz CPU, 16GB Memory, 2TB Storage, $4299.
Oryx 16.6" hidipi display . Nvidia GTX1070 8GB. 2.9GHz CPU. 1TB NMVe+1TB SSD. :$3154

If you drop back to 1TB (which you might because Apple want $800 for the extra TB. It's Apple $3499, Oryx $2695.

Other things you might care about:
I'm personally ok with either macos or Linux. You may or may not care.
The mac looks ok. The Oryx looks butt ugly.
The Orix lets you option it up further than Apple - 64GB Ram for instance.

In the past, claims that Apple were more expensive tended to ignore the horrible screens or limited storage on the cheaper counterparts.
In this instance the Apple for a similar config is $800-$1000 more expensive.

So the Oryx is looking pretty good, except for the butt ugly case.

--
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.

Re:For the people who can buy a nice laptop by TechyImmigrant · 2017-02-17 08:49 · Score: 0

Oh well - afgam28 pointed out the Oryz has a num pad. So throw it in the bin. It's useless with a crap keyboard shoved over to the right.

--
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Re:For the people who can buy a nice laptop by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 09:35 · Score: 0

"It's useless with a crap keyboard shoved over to the right^W left."
FTFY.
Re:For the people who can buy a nice laptop by DamnOregonian · 2017-02-17 09:38 · Score: 1

I love my number pad....
I can't say that it *seems* to affect my typing speed. I can still pull 130-140wpm
Is this a serious complaint?
Re:For the people who can buy a nice laptop by cfalcon · 2017-02-17 11:01 · Score: 2

Wait, you don't like numpads? We can have a holy war! I can't deal with anything without a friggin numpad. Feels totally derp to try to enter more than a few numbers without one. I didn't realize there were people who actually don't like the numpad for some heretical reason. EEEEEIIIIIINFIDELLL!!!
Re:For the people who can buy a nice laptop by e432776 · 2017-02-17 12:26 · Score: 1

I think you have a good comparison, but I was wondering about the relative portability. Oryx: 15.2 × 10.7 × 1.1, 5.50lbs; MacBook Pro 15, 13.75" x 9.48" x 0.61", 4.02lbs. Though I don't think the Oryx is unmanageable, and I do think Apple might go to far looking for thin-ness, I have to give the MacBook Pro the edge on size.
Re:For the people who can buy a nice laptop by jon3k · 2017-02-17 13:54 · Score: 1

In the past, claims that Apple were more expensive tended to ignore the horrible screens or limited storage on the cheaper counterparts. In this instance the Apple for a similar config is $800-$1000 more expensive.
The Apple display is better. It might not be higher resolution, which is mostly irrelevant because it's retina and you can't really resolve the higher pixel density of the System76, but the Apple display also has better contrast and color reproduction. The display just LOOKS better. That's the thing that's hard for people to compare on a spec sheet unless they really know how to read in depth reviews.
Re:For the people who can buy a nice laptop by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 14:16 · Score: 1

If I need numbers with more than a few digits, I write a program to compute the number for me... while I use the top row of number keys a lot, it is usually shifted to get all the interesting punctuation for programming, and getting simple digits out of those is even easier since I don't have to hold the shift with my pinky at the same time.
I have zero muscle memory to use a numeric keypad and honestly don't even know if it will produce digits, arrow/paging keys if I pressed it. It's possible the switches underneath those keys have fossilized, or spiders might come streaming out if I disturb them.
Re:For the people who can buy a nice laptop by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 21:08 · Score: 0

Just how large *is* a (assuming custom and hard to replace) 200W laptop power adapter?
Re:For the people who can buy a nice laptop by TechyImmigrant · 2017-02-21 08:03 · Score: 1

Yes. That's why I searched and searched and searched for the edit button, but Slashdot inadvertently forgot to implement it, every day, since my low 6 digit UID was minted.

--
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Re:For the people who can buy a nice laptop by TechyImmigrant · 2017-02-21 08:14 · Score: 1

Wait, you don't like numpads? We can have a holy war! I can't deal with anything without a friggin numpad. Feels totally derp to try to enter more than a few numbers without one. I didn't realize there were people who actually don't like the numpad for some heretical reason. EEEEEIIIIIINFIDELLL!!!
Because the keyboard it not centered on the screen, or more importantly, it's not centered under my hands.
On a desktop I can move the keyboard to the right to compensate. Since I don't use the num pad, I don't need it and I save a bunch of desk space with a nice HHKB pro 2.
Also a computer num pad is upside down relative to phones.

--
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Re: For the people who can buy a nice laptop by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-21 11:17 · Score: 0

Computer numpads are calculator numpads are adding machine numpads. The only time you should be using a phone numpad is dialing a number.

Re: A beautiful morning Haiku! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 09:07 · Score: 0

Tollerance of intolerance is simply submission to evil.

Nice ad. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 09:07 · Score: 0

There should be more ads like this on /.!

So straight up ads as articles? by nedlohs · 2017-02-17 09:14 · Score: 1

Should we be expecting one everytime dell/lenovo/etc comes out with a new laptop model too?

Re:So straight up ads as articles? by cfalcon · 2017-02-17 11:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

Maybe Alienware? System76 is kinda special in the Linux world, right? It is sorta comparable to Apple, broadly.

Meh by skogs · 2017-02-17 09:41 · Score: 1

I don't mind the slashvertisement at all, I do mind not being able to get a 4k in a 17 inch size.

--
Who is this that even the wind and the waves obey Him? Surely this computer must submit also!

Re:Meh by cfalcon · 2017-02-17 11:16 · Score: 1

The bonobo is 17" and has the 4K monitor, but is hella expensive. In fairness, Apple also does not offer a 4K in 17" :P

Too bad it's Ubuntu by damn_registrars · 2017-02-17 10:04 · Score: 2

This distro seems to become a bigger train wreck with each passing release. The arbitrary bullshit that my current install (16.04LTS) keeps throwing at me boggles my mind at times. Who the fuck thought it made sense for a laptop to lock the display configuration files when it goes to sleep? Now any time I put my laptop to sleep I have to move .config, and .kde, and reboot the next time I want to connect to an external monitor. Otherwise it will happily detect and lock out any external monitor until the magic locked file is out of the way. A simple reboot doesn't resolve it, the files have to be moved manually out of the way.

I wish that was the worst thing they've done, that is just the problem I run it to most often. The long term solution to it seems to be to just never put my laptop to sleep (as I use a different external display configuration at home than I do at work, and there are times I need to use only the laptop display while at work or on the road).

--
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.

Re:Too bad it's Ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 16:28 · Score: 0

You could install another distro. -PCP
Re:Too bad it's Ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 23:12 · Score: 0

I'm thinking of installing a non-systemd distribution.
At home, I have three always-on servers (NAS boxes with 27TB between them) which publish their drives over NFS. I have several Xubuntu laptops/desktops which access those drives over NFS. They all use the same installation of NFS and the same /etc/fstab files (excluding local drives, of course). Until 16.04 LTS (actually upgraded from 14.04.3 LTS to 16.04.1 LTS) this was not a problem. After 16.04 LTS (actually 16.04.1 LTS) there is a significant problem on shutdown. Two of the PCs always shut down properly. The other four do not: sometimes they shut down correctly; sometimes they shut down the network before they umount the drives (I've waited overnight); sometimes they take an hour or so to shut down. I've tried x-systemd.requires=network.target as well as enabling NetworkManager-wait-online.service.

The bigger question by m.dillon · 2017-02-17 10:53 · Score: 1

Is... has System 76 fixed the godawful keyboard yet? The gazellel prof 76 I have is a real pain to type on. It would be a fine laptop if not for the double-blasted horrible keyboard.

-Matt

Re:The bigger question by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 14:12 · Score: 0

typing this reply on one. haven't had any issues with the keyboard.

Refreshes? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 11:28 · Score: 0

Well then, System76 must of had to visit the ladies room and powder its nose.

nice laptops by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 12:01 · Score: 0

up to 64 Gb of ram no 16 Gb limit imposed and then blamed on intel.... with the same processors and chipsets. huh

not as good as an Imac by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 12:06 · Score: 0

there is also an Ethernet port and an actual top end GPU, but dammit, there is no gimmick like a touchbar to give you the "look at me i have an Apple" street cred.

Re:not as good as an Imac by Coren22 · 2017-02-23 09:50 · Score: 1

They also had the "courage" to have an integrated optical drive option. I have been bitten too many times by not having an optical drive to play movies from.

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APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?

Intolerance by Tenebrousedge · 2017-02-17 12:44 · Score: 1

You seem to be one of my fellow citizens, which means you're probably a pretty good person. Posting a message this results in nothing good, and I don't believe that you would say such a thing if we were in company together. I'm pretty concerned at this point that we're going to reach levels of partisanship that will result in civil war, and I don't think that's a thing any good citizen could desire. Please consider carefully what you write.

--
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.

Re:Intolerance by Coren22 · 2017-02-23 09:51 · Score: 1

Well, the Democrats did cede from the union before...

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APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Re: Intolerance by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-23 18:51 · Score: 0

Partisanship kills. Stop it.

Sloppy comparison? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 13:13 · Score: 0

So, the Oryx screen has 500 nits and the SSD is as fast as the one in the MacBook Pro (1.4Gbps for writes and more than 1.3Gbps for reads)? What about 4 40 40 Gbit/s ports and a display that supports Wide colour (P3) gamut?

But are they thinner?!?!?!?!? by gspeare · 2017-02-17 15:46 · Score: 1

Nothing else matters, right?

Re:Crickets. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 20:05 · Score: 0

Duh, these are laptops, dummy.

The Lemur and Gazelle might qualify as laptops. However the Oryx Pro, Serval WS and Bonobo WS are definitely luggables.

Re:Crickets. by WorBlux · 2017-02-18 00:49 · Score: 0

If that were actually the case I'd piss myself with joy. Even if they can't get votes where it counts the most, still 30% of peope admit to being democrat.

root of the issue by unixisc · 2017-02-18 03:29 · Score: 1

In Linux, do you still have that? In PC-BSD, they had me create a root password, but do not create a root account that one can log in via the login manager (One can do it on CLI using sudo, but not directly). Note that I'm talking about the login manager, not if you are one of those traditional CLI warriors

Re:root of the issue by Coren22 · 2017-02-23 09:55 · Score: 1

In most distros I have played with, it is not setup to be logged into as root, but you can modify it if you want. And then there is Gentoo.

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APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?

Slashdot Mirror

System76 Refreshes Ubuntu Linux Laptops With Intel Kaby Lake, NVIDIA GTX 10 Series, and 4K (betanews.com)

126 comments