Should International Travelers Leave Their Phones At Home? (freecodecamp.com)

Long-time Slashdot reader Toe, The sums up what he learned from freeCodeCamp's Quincy Larson: "Before you travel internationally, wipe your phone or bring/rent/buy a clean one." Larson's article is titled "I'll never bring my phone on an international flight again. Neither should you." All the security in the world can't save you if someone has physical possession of your phone or laptop, and can intimidate you into giving up your password... Companies like Elcomsoft make 'forensic software' that can suck down all your photos, contacts -- even passwords for your email and social media accounts -- in a matter of minutes.... If we do nothing to resist, pretty soon everyone will have to unlock their phone and hand it over to a customs agent while they're getting their passport swiped... And with this single new procedure, all the hard work that Apple and Google have invested in encrypting the data on your phone -- and fighting for your privacy in court -- will be a completely moot point.
The article warns Americans that their constitutional protections don't apply because "the U.S. border isn't technically the U.S.," calling it "a sort of legal no-man's-land. You have very few rights there." Larson points out this also affects Canadians, but argues that "You can't hand over a device that you don't have."

Comments

Ways around this

[Anaerin]

Depending on how long you're staying, you could send your phone via courier to meet you at your destination. Of course, then you have to trust the courier company and the customs agents handling the package.

Re:Ways around this

[taustin]

Since they don't have the password, you have to trust them a lot less.

Re:Ways around this

[quenda]

Simpler way: just don't visit the United States.
As a bonus, you will miss all the other airport humiliations: mass-fingerprinting, world's worst security theatre (you want my shoes off?), and risk of arbitrary refusal of entry without right of appeal or even explanation.
      If you want a dose of American culture and natural beauty, just go to Canada instead. Niagara Falls looks better from that side anyway :)

Are there any other countries where this sort of thing goes on?

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Be careful, American border patrol was just given authority to conduct is security theatre in Canadian airports too, courtesy of Joe Trudeau.

Re:Ways around this

[Freischutz]

Simpler way: just don't visit the United States.

Allow me to present to you a lout and vociferous BULLSHIT! Do you have dremams about killing 'Murricans, because we're so damn evil? Well here you go, and allow me to show the extent of your bullshit. http://www.it-can.ca/2013/02/0...

Seems like our friendly neighbors to the north, do indeed and in truth, confiscate peoples cell phones, and they do indeed search them, and they do indeed make uses of those search results, and their courts do indeed consider that as an acceptable practice. They even say that they do. Indeed.

One of the strangest things is that so many people have such a white hot seeting hatred of all things American, that they feel that in their just cause, and in the inherent superiority of all other nations, that they can spew hatred and lies about teh evilz 'Murricans doing what everyone does.

But hey, if you hate us that much for made up and non-factual reasons, feel free to stay away. You might learn that most of us are actually nice people - and that would mess with your preconceptions.

Yeesh, calm down will ya. Just be cause I don't want to visit your country due to the protracted, draconian and at times even humiliating process I'd have to subject myself to in order to get a Visa, that does not mean that I hate Americans. I just don't want some dull witted TSA drone rummaging around my laptop and my cell phone, rifling through my social media account and my private data, possibly even copying my personal data and storing it a DHS/NSA database, etc... The reason I'd rather go to Canada is that the Canadians might search my phone but are pretty unlikely to do so. The TSA/DHS on the other hand seems to be on track to making the act of poking it's nose into every nook and cranny of my personal life standard practice.

Re: Ways around this

[GrahamJ]

I won't enter the US because I feel that doing so would be tacit acceptance of its government's behaviour, mainly regarding war and spying. My country makes many of the same mistakes but continuing to be part of it isn't acceptance, it's what gives me the chance to affect change. And anyway, "they do it too" is rarely much of a defense.

Re:Ways around this

[Visarga]

Why do you feel the need to use so many negative words: bullshit, killing, evil, hatred, hatred, lies, evilz, hate? Could you not have carried your point across with regular, non inflammatory words?

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. Sorry America, but until you stop acting like an abusive boyfriend, pawing through peoples personal texts, contacts and photos, you are on MY no-fly list.

It's a shame, because America is a beautiful place, and Americans are some of the friendliest people I've met, but your government really needs to grow a pair. Someone once said something profound about trading liberty for security; y'all should really look into that.

Re:Ways around this

[davester666]

You also have to be careful about the route the airline takes, as even if it passes through US airspace, let alone makes a stopover, you still are subject to US customs inspection.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Be careful, American border patrol was just given authority to conduct is security theatre in Canadian airports too, courtesy of Joe Trudeau.

Yep. And this is a whole lot scarier than being asked to give up your phone and password. The fact that you can't just say "I've changed my mind" and turn around and walk away on CANADIAN SOIL, is fucking chilling.

Re:Ways around this

[Gussington]

Yeesh, calm down will ya. Just be cause I don't want to visit your country due to the protracted, draconian and at times even humiliating process I'd have to subject myself to in order to get a Visa, that does not mean that I hate Americans.

This is an important point which is often overlooked in diplomatic relations. When you hear leaders speak, they'll say Russia this, or America that, or Japan this or China that etc, but what they really mean is the current administration, not the country or its people. If I was the boss of my country I'd come out and say we love Americans, the people are great, the countryside is great, it's just the current head of state is a fuckwit with so we choose not to engage for the next 4 years. We look forward to dealing with the American people again whe they choose a competent leader. Regards.
This would prevent this from using it as a wedge to boost patriotic support, because the attack is purely on the person only, and not the country.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Then why do you make up shit about us? I'm quite calm, I just get tired of the lies that people tell about us. So I just deal a little of your own excitement back to you.

You're a liar. Don't think much of liars. Of course, that allows you the benefit of making up whatever you like. And since there isn't much point in dealing with people who simply make shit up, you can have the last post and declare yourself the winner. But you're still a liar.

Ummm...please point to the exact lie in what was posted.

Have US officials asked for the phone and password of those seeking entry into the US? Yes.

Did the poster claim that no other country does this? No.

Can and do US officials fingerprint visitors to the US? Yes.

Is the TSA enforced security theatre at the airports a joke? Yes, it seems so based on the multitude of internet articles and forum postings over the years.

Can US officials deny entry to the US without explanation? Yes.

Is Canadian culture similar to American culture? Yes, somewhat. This is due to the influence of being such close neighbours. Though some Canadian culture does still exist in Canada.

Does Canada have an abundance of natural beauty? Yes, very much so.

Does Niagara Falls look better from the Canadian side? Absolutely. The Horseshoe Falls is much better than the American Falls.

So where are these lies that you are frothing at the mouth about?

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

It's only if you're US bound however.

Re:Ways around this

[unixisc]

Depending on how long you're staying, you could send your phone via courier to meet you at your destination. Of course, then you have to trust the courier company and the customs agents handling the package.

Depends on whether I'm travelling on a vacation to a place where I'm not likely to regularly communicate w/ anyone (like say, a few weeks visit to Tahiti) vs visiting friends abroad, where I would be. Either case would be different.

In the first case, I would take a blank phone, and at the country that I'm visiting, maybe rent a SIM card for the duration of the stay. Keep it w/ me, and return it when I leave. Use it only for local calls (like to the hotel or anyone I have to call while I'm there. When I leave, turn in the SIM, and leave. Mission accomplished.

In the latter case, if I'm visiting friends, I'd take that phone no doubt, but bring my US phone as well, since chances are that I'd be taking pictures and sending stuff to other people, and since I'm w/ them on WhatsApp, it would be disruptive to use this temporary phone just for that. I won't want to incur roaming, though, so what I would do is use a WhatsApp/FaceTime on WiFi to call my usual contacts, but use the temporary phone for local contacts, including my friends.

Short answer: depending on the situation, I've done both. Like I have gone abroad leaving my phone at home, but then found myself unable to participate in regular channels. On the other hand, on the occasions I have taken it, I've found myself using it so sparingly that I might as well have not taken it at all. Bottom line: since I have a blank phone, depending on the duration of my travel, I would go w/ or w/o my regular phone.

Re: Ways around this

[Grishnakh]

Actually, they can, by not visiting and contributing their tourist dollars to the local economy. (Of course, this also makes them no longer a "visitor", but you get the point.)

Re: Ways around this

[Grishnakh]

There should be a way to do this and just move all the data to a microSD card. Then you can bring the card with you and transfer the data back later.

The microSD card, since it's so incredibly small, would be very easy to hide somewhere, like your wallet.

Re:Ways around this

[whoever57]

He has some skills, but the idea that he amassed billions is laughable. He inherited a large amount of money and his investments have not performed as well as the overall market.

And that's based on the best estimate of his wealth. It's quite possible that his wealth is significantly less than he claims. As a concrete example of this, in the disclosures he made as a presidential candidate, he listed some $20M in income from his golf course in Scotland: problem is, it's losing money. The $20M is revenue, not profit.

So, let me throw that back at you and suggest that you are not as smart as you think you are.

Re:Ways around this

[quenda]

let alone makes a stopover, you still are subject to US customs inspection.

Another US peculiarity, which is a major problem for many people daily.

Making it worse, the US considers Canada and Mexico part of the US for visa purposes.
So a 4-month visit to Canada, transiting the US both ways, is considered a 4-month stay in the US and so ineligible for ESTA and needing a full visa with interview just to transit.

Here is some help to avoid US transit:

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki...

http://wikitravel.org/en/Avoid...

Re:Ways around this

[whoever57]

What, exactly, are the factual mistakes in my post?

Do you dispute that he inherited a large fortune? Do you dispute, perhaps that his father bailed him out? Do you dispute that he claimed revenue rather than profits for his Scottish golf course?

Because all of these things are documented facts. Not "alternative facts", or fake news, but real, actual facts. But then, I should not be surprised that an enthusiastic Trump supporter would have difficulty recognizing facts.

You are simply uninformed. Perhaps you are wilfully blind to facts? Or perhaps, just stupid?

Re:Ways around this

[Solandri]

That wasn't a change, it was maintaining the status quo. The U.S. operates several extra-territorial checkpoints in Canada (and other countries). If you're leaving certain Canadian airports for a flight to the U.S., you clear U.S. customs and immigration while in Canada. This simplifies things at the U.S. end (there are a lot fewer Canadian airports than U.S. airports, so fewer staff are needed this way), as well as allows Canadian flights to travel directly to U.S. airports without any U.S. customs and immigration presence.

The program has been in operation since the 1950s. Absent any disagreement on immigration policies, it is logistically the more efficient way to operate.

Re:Ways around this

[SpaghettiPattern]

Same here. Would want to visit the USA. Should be fantastic. Both the country and people. There are many American scientists and artists that I hold in great esteem.

But as usual in any country, a minority of pedantic idiots try to screw things up. In my impression such wankers are more effective in the USA than in other true constitutional democracies. Coming up with pointless moronic rules (screen data at the airport that could be transferred in other more convenient, secure and untraceable ways), applying zero tolerance and feeling good about themselves for having done "a great job" at defending the country's best interests. And then there are their vassals who by the book and ooze stupidity out of their eyes.

To the majority of Americans that do have sense I'd say that it'd be good if that same majority would convey the idea that America surely wasn't built on FUD but more likely on risk taking, convention challenging, hard working and intellect.

Re:Ways around this

[Zemran]

Wow, who stole your teddy bear? Most objective people have genuine reasons to criticise the US but that does not in any way imply a hatred of all things American (we are only talking about the US anyway). He did say that he preferred Canada so he obviously likes America. The US is a beautiful country with arguably the worst government on earth. All countries are full of normal people but run by insane governments and the US is the worst case of that. Visit Iran, lovely country with beautiful places to visit and the most friendly people you could hope to meet but run by a crazy government. I would not return to the US. That does not mean that I hate Harleys or want to stop seeing my son, just that I am not prepared to put up with the BS involved in actually entering that insane theatre. Last time I entered the US my friends practically dragged me out of the customs area because I objected to the totally racist attitude of the customs officers.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

Being rich, or the president does not and should not make you immune to accountability.

Never said it did. It's time we had a jerk in office though. Doing the right thing is seldom popular. The screaming / crying liberals are driving nail after nail into the coffin of their own regressive movement. Keep it up!

Re: Ways around this

[ezdiy]

I'm using a 64GB sd card a bit differently. Forget copying things back and forth, that's too much hassle with plenty of room for mistakes.

Instead, get a phone with vendor supplied sdcard backdoor (there's plenty of those, just look for root tutorials of your favorite vendors). For example huawei ones look for dload/update.app, This is made of kernel and squashfs image. You can just rip those from internal ROM, except modify the sdcard version /system squashfs slightly so that fstab mounts sdcard partitions to /cache and /data (running whole system off sd is possible too, but a bit involved to bastardize the rom for it). Put the card in, start the phone and voila - entirely different world boots up, remove the card, and its back to original.

I did this mainly because the sdcard image is rooted and heavily customized, while the internal rom is the original vendors (to not void warranty). But as a side effect, this way you get perfect plausible deniability. Without the sdcard, the phone is pretty much stock, with no indication that entirely different world exist on some card that isn't there.

Re: Ways around this

[ControlsGeek]

This has been the case for many years. US Border Control agents clear airline passengers at Pearson Airport before you get to the US departures area gates. (Has nothing to do with Justin Trudeau. )

Re:Ways around this

[whoever57]

Your argument is that he is qualified to be in the White House because he inherited a bunch of money. Essentially, he is in the White House because of an accident of birth: you are arguing for something like a hereditary monarchy if his money qualifies him to be there.

His wealth and possessions are not impressive because he inherited the bulk of his wealth and would be wealthier had he not managed it himself.

Why do you think he refused to disclose his tax returns? We know he didn't pay taxes for a decade, so what worse information is there in his returns? Since image is everything to him, I suspect that his tax returns would show that his wealth is far smaller than he claims.

He's someplace I wish I could be, with resources I wish I had. To me, that's pretty damn successful.

I suspect that many, many people could be in the same position as him, had they got the same start in life as Trump had.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

You missed the important detail.

The previous status quo:
      If the US border officials didn't want to let you in, they could not detain you and you were free to turn around and walk away.

Now, people can get detained/held on Canadian soil by US border officials without the freedom to leave.

Big difference. Not at all the status quo.

Attack Software

[pubwvj]

So what happens when travelers start carrying attack hardware & software that bites back. Imagine that the border agent sticks your phone into his reader and along with your data your phone injects a virus into his system. This can be done at very low levels. Or your 'phone' might simply send out 200,000 volts of power through the connection frying boarder patrol's expensive equipment.

Sounds like a good plot for a thriller spy movie...

And it's all possible.

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that you'd probably be arrested for "damaging government equipment" or, more likely since it's related to national security, terrorism.

Re:Attack Software

[taustin]

As is the lengthy prison term you'll be serving for obstruction of justice, one count for each person delayed by the damaged equipment.

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to be a pedant learn some knowledge.

1) Voltage isn't a measure of power, but it is a measure of ESD tolerance.

2) You can get any voltage you want out of a cell phone battery. The only question is how many amps at that voltage.

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to be the one carrying the malware, you inject it on someone's phone while their sitting around on the public unsecured wifi on the airport.

They can't trace it back to you, and you get a free piggyback into the government network which someone else will take the fall for? Fantastic! That's the problem with these sorts of techniques, the people who can actually do damage are simply enabled by the incompetent policies put in place by people who don't understand the technology.

Really if anyone needs to be locked up for terrorism, it's the person who came up with a policy who enables hackers to do damage to government systems.

Re:Attack Software

[AmiMoJo]

Years ago I remember reading ab anti-forensics where they talked about carefully modifying the FAT on your HDD so that it would work normally with Windows (probably XP) but when scanned with a popular forensics package would make it crash. No permanent harm done, the trained monkey operator just assumes (correctly) that the forensics software is buggy and the barrier to invading your privacy is raised.

Well,

[Black Dragon]

reacting to these egregious violations of privacy by leaving your smartphone at home, or simply not having one, seems somehow inadequate. The fascists will simply keep pushing and pushing, gradually closing the net around you as they have ever since the passage of the (un)PATRIOT Act. In an actual free and open society, stealing, er excuse me "confiscating" someone's property and then demanding the victim give up their password would be illegal, and the very idea that the 4th Amendment to the United States Constitution shouldn't apply just because you are near the national border would be laughable. But we're not a free country, are we? No, not for a long time now.

Need more layers of encryption

[Anonymous Coward]

You must give border agents a key that will unlock your phone, but what if your phone had multiple levels of unlock? One key unlocks it to show a minimal contact list, texts and phone call histories of only select contacts and web history of only whitelisted sites. Sign in with a different key and suddenly your full history is available. If the filesystem is encrypted who is to know you haven't done a full unlock for the border goons.

No Different From Laptops

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

This is no different from the drill for laptops. On your travel day, back up your phone, encrypt the backup, send through your by vpn to a server stateside, reset the phone to factory defaults. Download the backup when safely stateside.

"[I]f we do nothing to resist"

[93 Escort Wagon]

I'm not sure that leaving your phone at home counts as "resistance" - it sounds more like surrendering.

Re:"[I]f we do nothing to resist"

[dbIII]

If you want to fight them the checkpoint is the wrong place since they have all the power and will win every time. They have you by the balls figuratively and sometimes literally. You have people that are supposed to represent your views in Washington and those people control the payroll for the TSA - they are the ones you should be talking to if you want to pick a fight with the TSA.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[buss_error]

giving airtime to over-the-top nonsense like this isn't the way to do it.

Yes, and no.
The US military (which includes everything from SEAL Team 6 down to your local police officer it seems now) has a concept of "developed capacity is intent to use it." Yes, using this thought process means that since every woman has a vagina, then she has the intent to become a prostitute, which is absurd on it's face.
That's kind of the point here.
If TSA/ICE/some random cop on the beat has the capacity to slurp your phone, then obviously, while the intent might not be there, they certinaly could if they had the slightest reason do to so. Such actions as looking at them. Not looking at them. Appearing nervous. Appearing calm. Being dressed too well. Being dressed poorly. Being dressed differently. Not being dressed differently. Speeding. Not speeding. Going slower than the speed limit. Using a highway. Using back roads.
These are all excuses used in court to preform a "reasonable suspicion" search, including one officer in Georgia that used all of these excuses in a single month. (I'll add there wasn't a single conviction in the bunch, only complaints of rights violations where were dismissed.)

The point is that "over the top" applies not to just viewing with alarm the possibility of police abuse, it's been proven to happen. Frequently. Most often with absolutely no consequence to the officer, department, or state actor involved.

I forget where, but it's been said "If you don't give weight to your principals, then the first wind will carry them off." And I absolutely disagree that constitutional protections "don't apply" to the boarder. Yes, I'm aware that's how courts have ruled, but I am not saying it isn't treated like that, I'm saying it is a break with the honor of our laws to do so. Further, nothing in the constitution or the bill of rights denies civil rights other than voting or holding certain public offices to non-citizens, and it doesn't say "while in the territory of the US". These rights should apply in downtown USA the same as they apply where ever the United States holds defacto jurisprudence, even if it's not our country. In other words, no more "black sites" and "rendition" allowed.

We have been told over and over again that "They hate us for our freedoms", but I don't see that we have many freedoms we can be proud of any more, let alone ones others would envy. Indeed, I think we've done much more damage to ourselves with our "security" stance than the terrorists have done.

constitutional protections don't apply

[Dare nMc]

> You have very few rights there

This does apply to them searching your phone, you have no choice. But it doesn't really apply to US citizens on giving up your password, if you have some time to spare that is. They cannot deny a citizen entry without cause, they can deny them their possessions or hold them for a "reasonable time." So eventually they have to allow citizens out of the constitution free zone, and into the US. Although they may be able to force you to give a fingerprint.

Of course this only applies to US citizens and US customs. Other countries are under no such consideration. But I am not sure many have any protections from search anywhere.

Re:IIRC, you don't have to give them the password

[Imrik]

You can't be compelled to give your password, you can however be denied permission to travel if you withhold it.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

The fourth amendment reads:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

There's some wiggle room in there, but the intent seems clear. Searches should be limited to those accused of a crime, and must be authorized by a judge/magistrate that there is probable cause.

Reset Chromebook and Phone

[mspohr]

I've been thinking about this since the recent article where a NASA JPL US citizen employee was detained and forced to give up his password.
I have a Chromebook. It's easy to wipe it completely to fresh out of the box factory settings. At the border, you can give them a completely blank computer. (or set up a dummy Chromebook account with nothing on it). Then when you are back safely in the US, just enter your credentials and it will download everything from the cloud and you're back in business.
Phones are a little more difficult. You can factory reset these but your SIM card still has data. You'd need to install a decoy SIM card in it (preferably a burner SIM from some odd place where it won't work in the US). You'll have to deal with your own SIM card by hiding it or mailing it to yourself. Once you reinstall your original SIM and login, the phone apps, etc. will restore themselves.
Either that or just buy a burner phone and ditch it before you return.

Re: Hyperbole stew

[SlaveToTheGrind]

so if it only happens to 1 in a 1000 people it's ok?

Yes, dear AC, if it happens due to some level of reasonable suspicion. I take it you would prefer a system where CBP has no authority to search anything under any circumstances? Hopefully you don't actually live in the U.S. and thus benefit from its protections as you sit in the comfort of your own home (ok, ok, or your parent's basement) and crank out ignorant anonymous posts.

Mod me down again, anarchists.

Stay away.

[Anonymous Coward]

The best answer is always ECONOMIC. Stay away from the USA and travel elsewhere. If they notice a huge decline in tourism and the associated revenue they will be forced to rethink TRUMP and his policies.

Re:Stay away.

[Gussington]

The best answer is always ECONOMIC. Stay away from the USA and travel elsewhere. If they notice a huge decline in tourism and the associated revenue they will be forced to rethink TRUMP and his policies.

Already doing this. We planned a trip there a couple of years ago but decided the authoritarian entry requirements were not something I can support with a conscience. So we went to Europe and spent our money there instead. I have friends planning a trip to the US later this year and invited us but declined for the same reasons. We're going to Indonesia instead, where despite having an autocratic pro-Muslim government, it is still more open than the US.
Worth noting this isn't a Trump thing. It started with Bush, and was continued by Obama and now Trump too.

Re:Stay away.

[Spaham]

yep !

I even used to live there as a student.
I'm not planning to come back any time soon now.
Why bother with all the hassle ?

Re:This won't be popular...

[Minupla]

The issue is, that's not my call. I'm a professional, I travel to the US on business. In doing so, I bring data that is not mine with me. Corporate emails, credentials that could cause a CNN moment if mishandled, etc.

Those data are stored under cryptographic control, using two factor authentication. It is not mine to decide if it's acceptable to hand it over to anyone.

So now I need to take further steps to ensure I have access to the data required when I travel internationally to my corporate HQ, which increases the cost of doing business.

My company will never move their HQ out of the US, but others may decide at some point that it'll cost them less in the long run.

Min

Yes. I've done essentially that.

[raymorris]

Yep, the USB device (aka gadget) tells the USB host (computer) what kind of device it is. Newer phones equipped with USB OTG have the hardware to work as either end of the connection.

Some chips used in common USB memory sticks can be programmed to act as a keyboard, sending keypresses to the computer when someone plugs in the "flash drive". I built one of those myself, using a usb flash drive with my company's logo on it. If I were to leave that drive laying around the office, one of my co-workers would probably think that because it's one of a batch of drives the company ordered with the company logo on it, it's safe to plug in. They wouldn't know I altered it to work as a keyboard. Currently it's set to press the appropriate keys to rickroll someone, opening a browser to YouTube playing Rick Astley.

Canada is no better in this respect

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada's customs agents also take away phones and read data off of them.

The border exception is a usurpation.

[jcr]

The US Constitution is the entirety of the legal basis for the very existence of the American federal government. Is it binding upon all American government officials, agents, and employees at all times and all places. There is no provision in the constitution for the suspension of the bill of rights at the border, and the fact that our rights are routinely violated when entering the country is because our courts are derelict in their duty to enforce the constitution.

-jcr

Yes, and

[ThatsNotPudding]

Keep in mind the LEO community of every stripe (pastry?) came out overwhelmingly for Trump. Hell, the goons in US Customs and Border Protection (CPB) were *actively* ignoring Federal judge court orders banning Bannon's XO.

Plenty of US Blue Shirts champing at the bit to be Il Trumpe's brown shirts. Psychotic high school bullies don't change: they just become cops.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[johannesg]

Funny, I've always thought that "they hate us for our freedoms" was a joke, and understood as such by everyone. Are you telling me people seriously mean it when they say that? And that other people believe it? Because I always thought they hate you for destroying their countries and ruining their lives, and not so much about what you do when you are at home...

Worse than North Korea

[psychonaut]

I've made scores of international trips in my life, for business and pleasure, and on only one occasion did the border guards demand access to my laptop. That was at Pyongyang International Airport in North Korea, in August of 2015. And at least the search was conducted in full view of myself -- they even asked me to do a lot of it myself, since they were completely unfamiliar with KDE and couldn't type on my Dvorak keyboard. It turns out all they were looking for were South Korean movies (which they didn't want me distributing to the locals), and as soon as it became obvious that I had none, they called off the search.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Kiuas]

I forget where, but it's been said "If you don't give weight to your principals, then the first wind will carry them off

I agree with this completely. As a Finn I've often been pondering recently what I'd do if the time comes to visit the US for business reasons or otherwise and this idea of just getting brand new device to bring along has been in my thoughts. However, in the context of your quote it has one massive setback: it's yielding to the system by saying 'fine, I agree that you can search everything I have so I bought a device with nothing on it'. It's not going to help the situation in the long term.

In fact I can see this kind of behavior being used to tighten the screws of surveillance even more: "Sir, we have noticed that you are on Facebook/Gmail/twitter but you're not logged into any of those on your device, please provide the passwords so we can verify you're not trying to hide any illegal activities'. That is, having a 'fresh' wiped device could itself be in the future seen as cause for 'reasonable suspicion', only making the problem worse.

In so far as I can see, the only way is not to try to go around the surveillance by means of technical solutions, but to oppose it in courts en masse. It's a hard route to take, but failing to stand up for your constitutional rights will, in the light of history, only lead to them being slowly chiselled away.