Should International Travelers Leave Their Phones At Home? (freecodecamp.com)

Long-time Slashdot reader Toe, The sums up what he learned from freeCodeCamp's Quincy Larson: "Before you travel internationally, wipe your phone or bring/rent/buy a clean one." Larson's article is titled "I'll never bring my phone on an international flight again. Neither should you." All the security in the world can't save you if someone has physical possession of your phone or laptop, and can intimidate you into giving up your password... Companies like Elcomsoft make 'forensic software' that can suck down all your photos, contacts -- even passwords for your email and social media accounts -- in a matter of minutes.... If we do nothing to resist, pretty soon everyone will have to unlock their phone and hand it over to a customs agent while they're getting their passport swiped... And with this single new procedure, all the hard work that Apple and Google have invested in encrypting the data on your phone -- and fighting for your privacy in court -- will be a completely moot point.
The article warns Americans that their constitutional protections don't apply because "the U.S. border isn't technically the U.S.," calling it "a sort of legal no-man's-land. You have very few rights there." Larson points out this also affects Canadians, but argues that "You can't hand over a device that you don't have."

Comments

Ways around this

[Anaerin]

Depending on how long you're staying, you could send your phone via courier to meet you at your destination. Of course, then you have to trust the courier company and the customs agents handling the package.

Re:Ways around this

[taustin]

Since they don't have the password, you have to trust them a lot less.

Re:Ways around this

[quenda]

Simpler way: just don't visit the United States.
As a bonus, you will miss all the other airport humiliations: mass-fingerprinting, world's worst security theatre (you want my shoes off?), and risk of arbitrary refusal of entry without right of appeal or even explanation.
      If you want a dose of American culture and natural beauty, just go to Canada instead. Niagara Falls looks better from that side anyway :)

Are there any other countries where this sort of thing goes on?

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Be careful, American border patrol was just given authority to conduct is security theatre in Canadian airports too, courtesy of Joe Trudeau.

Re:Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

Depending on how long you're staying, you could send your phone via courier to meet you at your destination. Of course, then you have to trust the courier company and the customs agents handling the package.

You can't. If you have anything on your phone that you don't want getting out, you need to leave the phone at home and get a burner. And that rule applies to all countries in the world, not just the US because hate.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes there are. You don't get around much do you.

Re:Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

Simpler way: just don't visit the United States.

Allow me to present to you a lout and vociferous BULLSHIT! Do you have dremams about killing 'Murricans, because we're so damn evil? Well here you go, and allow me to show the extent of your bullshit. http://www.it-can.ca/2013/02/0...

Seems like our friendly neighbors to the north, do indeed and in truth, confiscate peoples cell phones, and they do indeed search them, and they do indeed make uses of those search results, and their courts do indeed consider that as an acceptable practice. They even say that they do. Indeed.

One of the strangest things is that so many people have such a white hot seeting hatred of all things American, that they feel that in their just cause, and in the inherent superiority of all other nations, that they can spew hatred and lies about teh evilz 'Murricans doing what everyone does.

But hey, if you hate us that much for made up and non-factual reasons, feel free to stay away. You might learn that most of us are actually nice people - and that would mess with your preconceptions.

Re:Ways around this

[Freischutz]

Simpler way: just don't visit the United States.

Allow me to present to you a lout and vociferous BULLSHIT! Do you have dremams about killing 'Murricans, because we're so damn evil? Well here you go, and allow me to show the extent of your bullshit. http://www.it-can.ca/2013/02/0...

Seems like our friendly neighbors to the north, do indeed and in truth, confiscate peoples cell phones, and they do indeed search them, and they do indeed make uses of those search results, and their courts do indeed consider that as an acceptable practice. They even say that they do. Indeed.

One of the strangest things is that so many people have such a white hot seeting hatred of all things American, that they feel that in their just cause, and in the inherent superiority of all other nations, that they can spew hatred and lies about teh evilz 'Murricans doing what everyone does.

But hey, if you hate us that much for made up and non-factual reasons, feel free to stay away. You might learn that most of us are actually nice people - and that would mess with your preconceptions.

Yeesh, calm down will ya. Just be cause I don't want to visit your country due to the protracted, draconian and at times even humiliating process I'd have to subject myself to in order to get a Visa, that does not mean that I hate Americans. I just don't want some dull witted TSA drone rummaging around my laptop and my cell phone, rifling through my social media account and my private data, possibly even copying my personal data and storing it a DHS/NSA database, etc... The reason I'd rather go to Canada is that the Canadians might search my phone but are pretty unlikely to do so. The TSA/DHS on the other hand seems to be on track to making the act of poking it's nose into every nook and cranny of my personal life standard practice.

Re: Ways around this

[GrahamJ]

I won't enter the US because I feel that doing so would be tacit acceptance of its government's behaviour, mainly regarding war and spying. My country makes many of the same mistakes but continuing to be part of it isn't acceptance, it's what gives me the chance to affect change. And anyway, "they do it too" is rarely much of a defense.

Re:Ways around this

[Visarga]

Why do you feel the need to use so many negative words: bullshit, killing, evil, hatred, hatred, lies, evilz, hate? Could you not have carried your point across with regular, non inflammatory words?

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. Sorry America, but until you stop acting like an abusive boyfriend, pawing through peoples personal texts, contacts and photos, you are on MY no-fly list.

It's a shame, because America is a beautiful place, and Americans are some of the friendliest people I've met, but your government really needs to grow a pair. Someone once said something profound about trading liberty for security; y'all should really look into that.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Bitch please, we are no fucking better.

Hell, you can't even point out to a guy that he has lobster hands without being dragged before some bullshit human rights tribunal in Canada.

Re:Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

Yeesh, calm down will ya. Just be cause I don't want to visit your country due to the protracted, draconian and at times even humiliating process I'd have to subject myself to in order to get a Visa, that does not mean that I hate Americans.

Then why do you make up shit about us? I'm quite calm, I just get tired of the lies that people tell about us. So I just deal a little of your own excitement back to you.

You're a liar. Don't think much of liars. Of course, that allows you the benefit of making up whatever you like. And since there isn't much point in dealing with people who simply make shit up, you can have the last post and declare yourself the winner. But you're still a liar.

Re: Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

I won't enter the US because I feel that doing so would be tacit acceptance of its government's behaviour, mainly regarding war and spying. My country makes many of the same mistakes but continuing to be part of it isn't acceptance, it's what gives me the chance to affect change. And anyway, "they do it too" is rarely much of a defense.

I understand. It's only wrong when America does it. Seems like your logic says you need to leave your country as well. Your country making the same mistakes is somehow okay, but not us. Keep the hate coming.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

It's only wrong when America does it.

He did not say that. It is not implied by anything that he did say. You made up that sentiment, and propped it up as a strawman. This makes you a liar.

Re:Ways around this

[davester666]

You also have to be careful about the route the airline takes, as even if it passes through US airspace, let alone makes a stopover, you still are subject to US customs inspection.

Re:Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

Why do you feel the need to use so many negative words: bullshit, killing, evil, hatred, hatred, lies, evilz, hate? Could you not have carried your point across with regular, non inflammatory words?

Absolutely, I can wax rather poetic, and have quite a vocabulary.

However, I have to admit that patience is not one of my virtues when presented with complete fabrications and dissembling. While it might seem to some and adequate representation of the state of the US customs system by comparing it with the Canadian system, as it turns out, that is not even remotely correct nor true. It is demonstrable in fact that a person who enters Canada can be detained in order to have the contents of their phone searched, and the contents used as part of a process that results in conviction, and the conviction upheld on appeal.

I have traveled outside the country on occasions, and have been warned about carrying any sort of data retention device without rather extensive precautions.. This has been the case since the early 2000's. Any device you carry might leave your possession, and the contents might be searched. This includes work and personal computers, and phones. Any country, any where. If I had to take a work computer, it had to be one with a freshly wiped and imaged drive. No exceptions allowed.

If a person feels that entrance to the USA is fraught with personal risk, if they feel that they will have all manner of indiscretions visited upon their persons and their data retention devices, then that of course, is a right to which they might exercise. However, when it is put forth with great authority that a country to the north of the United States is somehow a safe haven from such inexcusable intrusions, perhaps I might be forgiven when dealing with people on Slashdot and making the mistake that they are not only technically inclined, but intellectually adroit, and would at least check their sources. I would confess to that guilt. Perhaps I have read many of these same posts, and find a running theme of what - if you will forgive me holding a contrary opinion - are likewise applying one rule of acceptable behavior to one country, and a different one to all other countries, perhaps it is time to reply in a manner that might not only stimulate their attention, but also point out their hypocrisy.

Now indeed, the state of the world, where it is quite in vogue to express great disdain for the United States of America, and that this disdain is often applied for multiple reasons, that I am indeed perhaps tilting at windmills in my replies, as in obvious, one does not often convince dissemblers of the falseness of their notions and statement, even when presented with attributable facts - unless of course, you believe that Our neighbors to the north in Canada are also in the "Fake News" business as is so often spouted when information contrary to one's particular version of the truth is disseminated.

tl;dr It gets fucking old to read the same lies over and over again.

Can't imagine you'd actually want replies like what I just made. But I certainly can - if people need that sort of thing. One part of my job is telling people to go to hell in a way that they look forward to the trip.

Re:Ways around this

[BitterOak]

Simpler way: just don't visit the United States.

That doesn't help if you are American and want to visit some other countries. At some point you have to come back, and these border search rules apply to citizens and non-citizens alike.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Be careful, American border patrol was just given authority to conduct is security theatre in Canadian airports too, courtesy of Joe Trudeau.

Yep. And this is a whole lot scarier than being asked to give up your phone and password. The fact that you can't just say "I've changed my mind" and turn around and walk away on CANADIAN SOIL, is fucking chilling.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

I read it.

Re:Ways around this

[Gussington]

Yeesh, calm down will ya. Just be cause I don't want to visit your country due to the protracted, draconian and at times even humiliating process I'd have to subject myself to in order to get a Visa, that does not mean that I hate Americans.

This is an important point which is often overlooked in diplomatic relations. When you hear leaders speak, they'll say Russia this, or America that, or Japan this or China that etc, but what they really mean is the current administration, not the country or its people. If I was the boss of my country I'd come out and say we love Americans, the people are great, the countryside is great, it's just the current head of state is a fuckwit with so we choose not to engage for the next 4 years. We look forward to dealing with the American people again whe they choose a competent leader. Regards.
This would prevent this from using it as a wedge to boost patriotic support, because the attack is purely on the person only, and not the country.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Then why do you make up shit about us? I'm quite calm, I just get tired of the lies that people tell about us. So I just deal a little of your own excitement back to you.

You're a liar. Don't think much of liars. Of course, that allows you the benefit of making up whatever you like. And since there isn't much point in dealing with people who simply make shit up, you can have the last post and declare yourself the winner. But you're still a liar.

Ummm...please point to the exact lie in what was posted.

Have US officials asked for the phone and password of those seeking entry into the US? Yes.

Did the poster claim that no other country does this? No.

Can and do US officials fingerprint visitors to the US? Yes.

Is the TSA enforced security theatre at the airports a joke? Yes, it seems so based on the multitude of internet articles and forum postings over the years.

Can US officials deny entry to the US without explanation? Yes.

Is Canadian culture similar to American culture? Yes, somewhat. This is due to the influence of being such close neighbours. Though some Canadian culture does still exist in Canada.

Does Canada have an abundance of natural beauty? Yes, very much so.

Does Niagara Falls look better from the Canadian side? Absolutely. The Horseshoe Falls is much better than the American Falls.

So where are these lies that you are frothing at the mouth about?

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

I understand. It's only wrong when America does it. Seems like your logic says you need to leave your country as well. Your country making the same mistakes is somehow okay, but not us. Keep the hate coming.

You seem to have MISSED this entire sentence:

My country makes many of the same mistakes but continuing to be part of it isn't acceptance, it's what gives me the chance to affect change.

A citizen can affect change in their own country. A visitor cannot affect change in the country they are visiting.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

It's only if you're US bound however.

Re: Ways around this

[Jeremi]

Seems like one way to deal with the problem would be to wipe your phone before crossing the border, so all Customs ever sees is a (more or less) vanilla OS install. You could then restore your data again once you're on the other side.

Currently doing that is a hit of a hassle, but I think an app could be written to automate the process nicely.

Re:Ways around this

[unixisc]

Depending on how long you're staying, you could send your phone via courier to meet you at your destination. Of course, then you have to trust the courier company and the customs agents handling the package.

Depends on whether I'm travelling on a vacation to a place where I'm not likely to regularly communicate w/ anyone (like say, a few weeks visit to Tahiti) vs visiting friends abroad, where I would be. Either case would be different.

In the first case, I would take a blank phone, and at the country that I'm visiting, maybe rent a SIM card for the duration of the stay. Keep it w/ me, and return it when I leave. Use it only for local calls (like to the hotel or anyone I have to call while I'm there. When I leave, turn in the SIM, and leave. Mission accomplished.

In the latter case, if I'm visiting friends, I'd take that phone no doubt, but bring my US phone as well, since chances are that I'd be taking pictures and sending stuff to other people, and since I'm w/ them on WhatsApp, it would be disruptive to use this temporary phone just for that. I won't want to incur roaming, though, so what I would do is use a WhatsApp/FaceTime on WiFi to call my usual contacts, but use the temporary phone for local contacts, including my friends.

Short answer: depending on the situation, I've done both. Like I have gone abroad leaving my phone at home, but then found myself unable to participate in regular channels. On the other hand, on the occasions I have taken it, I've found myself using it so sparingly that I might as well have not taken it at all. Bottom line: since I have a blank phone, depending on the duration of my travel, I would go w/ or w/o my regular phone.

Re:Ways around this

[dougdonovan]

i take my phone wherever i go. period. deal with it.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Ayup - I quit visiting the USA more than a decade ago. It is not worth the hassle. Much of the USA is rather run-down and slummy anyway and good to stay out of.

I also travel with an ancient netbook running a cleanly installed OpenBSD, instead of a laptop PC and we have spare phones at relative's for local use.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

No they don't. I travel international all of the time and have always just been waved through quickly when I present my US passport upon returning home.

Re:Ways around this

[PopeRatzo]

Why do you feel the need to use so many negative words: bullshit, killing, evil, hatred, hatred, lies, evilz, hate? Could you not have carried your point across with regular, non inflammatory words?

http://www.independent.co.uk/n...

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

it's just the current head of state is a fuckwit

This has been true starting with Kennedy's successor.

All joking aside, the media has portrayed him as such. According to the media drinking a cup of coffee in the morning is an act worthy of impeachment.

You don't amass billions or get elected to the highest office in the world despite running against one of the most expensive campaigns in history and WIN by accident.

If you believe everything the media feeds you you're not as smart as you think you are.

Re: Ways around this

[Hylandr]

This makes you a liar.

This guy again?

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. Quite a few. Perhaps you should travel more and pick on the US a bit less.

Off the top of my head...
- UK, Australia and China require fingerprints for visas (certain countries only - e.g., France for Chinese visa)
- Malaysia requires mandatory fingerprinting upon exit and entry.

If you're not a US citizen, what makes you think you have ANY right to appeal or an explanation? As a US citizen, I have no such expectations when I go abroad.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

One part of my job is telling people to go to hell in a way that they look forward to the trip.

You're paid to shit-post on slashdot?

Re: Ways around this

[Grishnakh]

Actually, they can, by not visiting and contributing their tourist dollars to the local economy. (Of course, this also makes them no longer a "visitor", but you get the point.)

Re:Ways around this

[dbIII]

Now that was actually sensible.

Re: Ways around this

[Grishnakh]

There should be a way to do this and just move all the data to a microSD card. Then you can bring the card with you and transfer the data back later.

The microSD card, since it's so incredibly small, would be very easy to hide somewhere, like your wallet.

Re:Ways around this

[whoever57]

He has some skills, but the idea that he amassed billions is laughable. He inherited a large amount of money and his investments have not performed as well as the overall market.

And that's based on the best estimate of his wealth. It's quite possible that his wealth is significantly less than he claims. As a concrete example of this, in the disclosures he made as a presidential candidate, he listed some $20M in income from his golf course in Scotland: problem is, it's losing money. The $20M is revenue, not profit.

So, let me throw that back at you and suggest that you are not as smart as you think you are.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

Without deeply investigating a mans private fortune, he has one. A personal fortune that is likely more money than you will ever see in your life, AND he's president of the United States of America.

Somewhere, someplace whether you like it or not he did enough things right to keep and increase his holdings, as well as attain the highest political office in the world.

I would suggest your information is grossly inaccurate, or you just hate him and refuse to give credit where credit is due. Either way, you're not going to be very successful arguing with *results*.

Re:Ways around this

[quenda]

No need to blame the media conspiracy. His unfiltered tweets are evidence enough.
Its not some left-wing conspiracy - McCain and Romney always came across as decent, intelligent guys in the media.
The 2016 election was something truly new.

My favourite right-wing commentator Andrew Bolt said:

THE question now isn’t whether Donald Trump is just a moron or an outright menace who could blow up the world. It’s why a braggart, buffoon, liar, narcissist and sexist with almost no political principles came so close to becoming president of the world’s greatest power.

Of course that was after pussy-gate, when we thought it was all over. Since the election, he has embraced Trump, but for a moment, we heard his real thoughts.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

No need to blame the media conspiracy.

You live in a bubble, or work for the entertainment industry (media)

A few tweets do not justify the vitriol that's been projected towards our President. Any intelligent individual can see this and you know it.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Donald, Is that you?

Re:Ways around this

[quenda]

let alone makes a stopover, you still are subject to US customs inspection.

Another US peculiarity, which is a major problem for many people daily.

Making it worse, the US considers Canada and Mexico part of the US for visa purposes.
So a 4-month visit to Canada, transiting the US both ways, is considered a 4-month stay in the US and so ineligible for ESTA and needing a full visa with interview just to transit.

Here is some help to avoid US transit:

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki...

http://wikitravel.org/en/Avoid...

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

And you realize that taking such a righteous stand does nothing? You will change nothing measurable in your entire life. Why even write about, when nobody gives a shit?

Are you such a moral hero that you expect others to praise you? Do you think you're shining example? Their must be some delusion of that nature, because you think others should recognize this private little morality play of yours.

"They do it too" is a defense against attacks that pretend that only one country does something, or that the stance to take is one against the U.S.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

If you really think it's just 'a few tweets', then he's not the only one in bubble.

Re:Ways around this

[whoever57]

What, exactly, are the factual mistakes in my post?

Do you dispute that he inherited a large fortune? Do you dispute, perhaps that his father bailed him out? Do you dispute that he claimed revenue rather than profits for his Scottish golf course?

Because all of these things are documented facts. Not "alternative facts", or fake news, but real, actual facts. But then, I should not be surprised that an enthusiastic Trump supporter would have difficulty recognizing facts.

You are simply uninformed. Perhaps you are wilfully blind to facts? Or perhaps, just stupid?

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

It's almost 3am Eastern time...

Re:Ways around this

[Solandri]

That wasn't a change, it was maintaining the status quo. The U.S. operates several extra-territorial checkpoints in Canada (and other countries). If you're leaving certain Canadian airports for a flight to the U.S., you clear U.S. customs and immigration while in Canada. This simplifies things at the U.S. end (there are a lot fewer Canadian airports than U.S. airports, so fewer staff are needed this way), as well as allows Canadian flights to travel directly to U.S. airports without any U.S. customs and immigration presence.

The program has been in operation since the 1950s. Absent any disagreement on immigration policies, it is logistically the more efficient way to operate.

Re:Ways around this

[SpaghettiPattern]

Same here. Would want to visit the USA. Should be fantastic. Both the country and people. There are many American scientists and artists that I hold in great esteem.

But as usual in any country, a minority of pedantic idiots try to screw things up. In my impression such wankers are more effective in the USA than in other true constitutional democracies. Coming up with pointless moronic rules (screen data at the airport that could be transferred in other more convenient, secure and untraceable ways), applying zero tolerance and feeling good about themselves for having done "a great job" at defending the country's best interests. And then there are their vassals who by the book and ooze stupidity out of their eyes.

To the majority of Americans that do have sense I'd say that it'd be good if that same majority would convey the idea that America surely wasn't built on FUD but more likely on risk taking, convention challenging, hard working and intellect.

Re:Ways around this

[Z00L00K]

Skip bringing your smartphone and get a "dumb" phone where you can hardly produce a text message.

I doubt that they would capture any serious offender this way - they have other means to get their stuff through. A micro SD is so small that it's easy to conceal.

But otherwise I have realized that there's no real point in visiting the US these days considering the banana republic government that's in place. Nothing wrong with the people, just the election system that makes sure that only the worst alternatives are available. The only candidate last election that at least had some ambition outside the realm of power or control was Sanders.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

I am saying you cannot argue with results.

He has them, I don't see yours that would qualify you to speak as an authority to what amounts to a 'successful' fortune.

For the two of us to debate the financial prowess of a person who has no concern for our opinion is pointless. Other than to mash keys at each other and increase the forums ad impressions and increase their as revenue why do you care what anyone else thinks so badly?

You think he's a baffoon? That's fine. But ultimately he's in the white house with a ton of cash and fingers on important buttons and neither of us are.

He's someplace I wish I could be, with resources I wish I had. To me, that's pretty damn successful.

Re:Ways around this

[Zemran]

Wow, who stole your teddy bear? Most objective people have genuine reasons to criticise the US but that does not in any way imply a hatred of all things American (we are only talking about the US anyway). He did say that he preferred Canada so he obviously likes America. The US is a beautiful country with arguably the worst government on earth. All countries are full of normal people but run by insane governments and the US is the worst case of that. Visit Iran, lovely country with beautiful places to visit and the most friendly people you could hope to meet but run by a crazy government. I would not return to the US. That does not mean that I hate Harleys or want to stop seeing my son, just that I am not prepared to put up with the BS involved in actually entering that insane theatre. Last time I entered the US my friends practically dragged me out of the customs area because I objected to the totally racist attitude of the customs officers.

Re:Ways around this

[Anaerin]

Well, most (if not all) Android phones by default (since Marshmallow, I believe) default to using any USB connection plugged in for charging only, and requiring you to unlock the phone to change that option each time. And before that (since at least Jellybean, I believe) don't expose filesystem data until the device is unlocked. So that gets you some modicum of safety. And with the device encryption turned on, it won't even get into the OS without an unlock code. So provided they're not going to physically dismantle the phone, or other such destructive measures, your data is pretty safe. Apple... well... not so much.

Of course, whether the courier "loses" the package en route is another matter entirely.

Re: Ways around this

[religionofpeas]

The next step would be to deny entry for people with wiped phones.

Re: Ways around this

[phayes]

So, by your logic every tourist visiting Paris has been encouraging the DGSE's snooping which oh so very legally goes far beyond what the NSA & U.S customs can perform on both foreigners and French nationals. Because WE're the country of the "Declaration of Rights of Man"...

Riiiigght...

Re:Ways around this

[Gussington]

This has been true starting with Kennedy's successor.

I don't recall any other leader throwing their own citizens (government, judges, military, media etc) under the bus while simultaneously praising a foreign enemy government. That behaviour is bordering on treason.

All joking aside, the media has portrayed him as such.

This is the standard defence, and it's what Trump wants you to believe. But I, nor most others are relying in the media, we have a pretty clear picture based purely on the words out of his own mouth.

You don't amass billions or get elected to the highest office in the world despite running against one of the most expensive campaigns in history and WIN by accident.

Never said it was. And I'm struggling to see how this is relevant to the discussion..

If you believe everything the media feeds you you're not as smart as you think you are.

See above. You really need to stop blindly regurgitating the official talking points if you are interested in an actual discussion.

Re:Ways around this

[Gussington]

I am saying you cannot argue with results.

He has them, I don't see yours that would qualify you to speak as an authority to what amounts to a 'successful' fortune.

Well let's use an independent benchmark, the stock market. Had Donald Trump simply invested the monetary gifts and inheritance from his dad across the stock market in a standard index fund, he would have more money than he house now. That means his managing of his gifted wealth has resulted in a worse net outcome than if he simply did nothing.
None of this is relevant to the actual discussion that he is a jerk though. Being rich, or the president does not and should not make you immune to accountability.

Re:Ways around this

[Gussington]

A few tweets do not justify the vitriol that's been projected towards our President. Any intelligent individual can see this and you know it.

No true Scotsman eh. You're going to have to try harder than that.

Re: Ways around this

[phayes]

The next step would be to deny entry for people with wiped phones.

which no-one besides you is evoking...

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

With a rooted Android phone you could use something like nandroid to do a full backup and restore.

Re: Ways around this

[DeltaQH]

There are some tunnels at the Mexican US border......

Re: Ways around this

[DeltaQH]

And the next step is to vet entry to people carrying no phones, tablets or laptops. Highly suspicious....

Re:Ways around this

[nospam007]

"As a concrete example of this, in the disclosures he made as a presidential candidate, he listed some $20M in income from his golf course in Scotland: problem is, it's losing money. The $20M is revenue, not profit."

For people who don't pay taxes and swindle their contractors, revenue==profit.

Re:Ways around this

[thegarbz]

You might learn that most of us are actually nice people

You guys should consider voting for some.

Re:Ways around this

[nospam007]

"That doesn't help if you are American and want to visit some other countries. At some point you have to come back, ..."

Err...NO, you don't.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

I don't recall any other leader throwing their own citizens (government, judges, military, media etc) under the bus

Prove it. "news" corporations are not acceptable as sources.

This is the standard defence, and it's what Trump wants you to believe. But I, nor most others are relying in the media, we have a pretty clear picture based purely on the words out of his own mouth

No, you don't. I have seen and read what he has said. It's not what the Media is saying. But I really don't care. he's going to win again in 2020 because the Internet population is still a small percentage of real voters. Not everyone obeys or believes what's screamed into the Internet echo chamber.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

You don't know what that means. Go back to /pol.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

Being rich, or the president does not and should not make you immune to accountability.

Never said it did. It's time we had a jerk in office though. Doing the right thing is seldom popular. The screaming / crying liberals are driving nail after nail into the coffin of their own regressive movement. Keep it up!

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

You probably mean DGSI (I stands for 'Interieur', E for 'Exterieur'). DGSE is more related to your CIA. Please try to be precise when accusing foreign organisations (Yes, the French do read your posts too).

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually we can argue with results. It's been commonly established that his wealth comes from having inherited money. If he'd just hired a professional to invest his inheritance he'd be similar to his claimed level of rich today. (We'd be able to be more precise but he won't release his tax returns, meaning there is a significant chance he is actually far less rich than he claims.)

The best, lowest risk, way to make money is to be born with money. This is a huge problem. America isn't quite as bad as my country, but it is still an issue.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Dgse is the convicted international terrorist organisation, n'est pas?

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuckwits elect fuckwits.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

This post might make me start hate US-Americans. Glad I am European.

Re:Ways around this

[Cederic]

And yet.. he owns a loss making golf course in Scotland.

Do you? I'm not certain but I'm fairly sure that I don't.

You're also missing the point that it makes a loss because it's doing things like buying helicopters from other parts of his business empire, almost certainly for tax purposes.

It is quite possible that his wealth is less than he claims but that isn't evidence that he isn't far wealthier than most people even aspire to, let alone have any hope of achieving.

Re:Ways around this

[jareth-0205]

Simpler way: just don't visit the United States.
As a bonus, you will miss all the other airport humiliations: mass-fingerprinting, world's worst security theatre (you want my shoes off?), and risk of arbitrary refusal of entry without right of appeal or even explanation.

Yeah great, unless of course your job requires it, in which case you kindof have to. But you can just get another job that doesn't, right? Right. Unless you have family and friends there, in which case you have to. But you can just get other family, right?

Your simple solutions do not help people in the real world.

Re: Ways around this

[arnowa]

You won't have that in Europe (except Uk) and in most countries you would have strong rights to appeal. Of course not in UK. They do not even have a constitution.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Without deeply investigating a mans private fortune, he has one. A personal fortune that is likely more money than you will ever see in your life, AND he's president of the United States of America.

Somewhere, someplace whether you like it or not he did enough things right to keep and increase his holdings, as well as attain the highest political office in the world.

I would suggest your information is grossly inaccurate, or you just hate him and refuse to give credit where credit is due. Either way, you're not going to be very successful arguing with *results*.

BWAHAHHAAAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAA! A sheep says "Baaaaaaaah"?

Re: Ways around this

[ezdiy]

I'm using a 64GB sd card a bit differently. Forget copying things back and forth, that's too much hassle with plenty of room for mistakes.

Instead, get a phone with vendor supplied sdcard backdoor (there's plenty of those, just look for root tutorials of your favorite vendors). For example huawei ones look for dload/update.app, This is made of kernel and squashfs image. You can just rip those from internal ROM, except modify the sdcard version /system squashfs slightly so that fstab mounts sdcard partitions to /cache and /data (running whole system off sd is possible too, but a bit involved to bastardize the rom for it). Put the card in, start the phone and voila - entirely different world boots up, remove the card, and its back to original.

I did this mainly because the sdcard image is rooted and heavily customized, while the internal rom is the original vendors (to not void warranty). But as a side effect, this way you get perfect plausible deniability. Without the sdcard, the phone is pretty much stock, with no indication that entirely different world exist on some card that isn't there.

Re: Ways around this

[therealkevinkretz]

This is status quo for some time in other places too, I've been through US Customs at an airport in the Bahamas - allows plane to avoid international terminal at destination, and long Customs wait there.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

You also don't learn anything about macroeconomics of the public sector by running a business based on managing hotels or selling your name for building projects. The guy isn't automatically a financial genius or even a competent leader just because he has money. If we wanted to elect a billionaire who actually understands macroeconomics and could run the country without fucking it all up, we should have elected Warren Buffet.

Re:Ways around this

[__aanfwt7763]

ah - you're from a country that needs a visa to go to the states. so you're not from the real europe, you're not from japan, you're not from canada - you're not from anywhere normal. you're from some ex-soviet corrupt shithole or another 2nd world piece of nothing.

here's from a guy who speaks 5 languages, has taken several thousand flights, and lived in many countries: pleas don't visit the US. the reason those "draconian" visa procedures are in place, is that people from normal countries don't need a visa at all. the visa is supposed to keep people from bad countries out, and that's why all the bullshit. and no one asks for your cell phone at passport control - they inquire as to the purpose of your visit, you fill out an electronic form in 2 seconds for customs, and you walk out of the airport.

for countries like yours, full of corrupt crap and mail order brides, and people who are used to lying and stealing and abusing the system to get rich instead of working at an office - we don't want you here. go fuck yourself. and if we do want you here - guess what - you don't need a visa, and you don't get BS at passport control. The fact that you don't fell welcome and want to stay away from america just means it's working as designed. otyebis' mudak, ee sosi, dolgo ee gluboko.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an old international phone that locked up on me, I should carry that on flights hoping they ask for it and unlock it for me :)

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Not visiting the US is not always a solution

Re:Ways around this

[Wild_dog!]

"Ad-Hominem attacks are the liberals concession of defeat. The more names they call you, the greater your victory."

Would you say this statement applies to all people or just liberals in particular?

Re: Ways around this

[GrahamJ]

I was only talking about how I judge my actions, not those of others, and encouragement is not the same as tacit acceptable. But generally, yes. When considering whether I agree with an action or not its legality is not necessarily a deciding factor. For example most of the issues I have with the US are legal.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

It's just a cheap way to detract from the fact that he is completely and utterly wrong.

Re:Ways around this

[SumterLiving]

I don't think the OP hates U.S. citizens. My guess is it's our policies, invasive TSA behavior and actions plus our emerging xenophobian philosophy is what many, including what appears to be a growing number of U.S. citizens, are saying is a huge concern. Anecdotal evidence tells me travel to the U.S. is being seen more and more as a negative or just a necessary evil. Candidate and now President Trump has given world leaders reason to question if the U.S.commitment to world peace and stability is waning.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Japan fingerprints me every time I go there. And every hotel is required to photocopy my passport. And they don't even have a 4th amendment. Or 1st. Or 2nd. US is not the worst yet.

Re:Ways around this

[ooloorie]

Simpler way: just don't visit the United States. As a bonus, you will miss all the other airport humiliations: mass-fingerprinting, world's worst security theatre (you want my shoes off?), and risk of arbitrary refusal of entry without right of appeal or even explanation. [...] Are there any other countries where this sort of thing goes on?

Yes: pretty much every other country in the world can refuse travelers entry without explanation and search people and their possessions in any way they like. They will also have you tailed by a person, tap your phones, and bug your rooms. And that includes European countries.

But, of course, members of the lily-white, privileged European country club of former wealthy empires are outraged when they are treated like travelers from other countries. Outraged, I tell you!

Simpler way: just don't visit the United States.

Please follow your own advice.

Re: Ways around this

[ControlsGeek]

This has been the case for many years. US Border Control agents clear airline passengers at Pearson Airport before you get to the US departures area gates. (Has nothing to do with Justin Trudeau. )

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever since the chickenhawks in the Bush Administration created DHS in their childish foot stamping attempts to cover up their own failures in preventing the worst terror attacks on US soil things have been getting worse for both Americans and for legal visitors who just want to have a good time here. I totally understand people not wanting to go to the US in the same way that I refuse to travel to England even though I'd love to see it. Too much of a police state there now--it's like they read 1984 as an instruction manual.

For Americans returning from a trip to sane places that don't treat citizens let alone visitors like this, or for the visitors who want to brave it despite multiple reasons not to, burner phones and wiped cheap disposable (if necessary) notebooks all the way. Send your vacation pics back on the Internet ahead of you and carry nothing of electronic value whatsoever. This is important: whatever passwords you have on the burner devices should in no way have anything to do with the actual accounts you really use.

Americans aren't like this, and it's one reason they get shocked at the mistreatment by Customs, the TSA, and everything else that's grown up in the unconstitutional national security state. It's a shockingly physically big country though for those who've never been here, and a good lot of Americans have never encountered those things. I hope it gets fixed and soon.

Re:Ways around this

[ControlsGeek]

Lol According to CNN Watching TV as POTUS in your bathrobe ... worthy of impeachment.
                                                                          Using a Samsung phone not provided by NSA ...worthy of impeachment
                                                                          Posting to POTUS twitter account that your daughter is great ...worthy of impeachment
                                                                          Letting your Adult children run your business ... worthy of impeachment
                                                                          Having an unusual hairstyle ... Weird and worthy of impeachment

Re:Ways around this

[ooloorie]

Just be cause I don't want to visit your country due to the protracted, draconian and at times even humiliating process I'd have to subject myself to in order to get a Visa, that does not mean that I hate Americans.

I have no idea what your country is since you haven't said. Your name suggests that you are from Germany, but you don't need a visa from Germany. And your complaints about a "draconian and humiliating process" also suggest that you come from a rich, privileged European country, because people from most other countries understand that traveling anywhere requires intrusive searches and disclosures, and a significant possibility of getting turned away.

Prior to 1986, the US required visas from European countries; the visa-free travel program was instituted because Europe was considered low risk, was wealthy, and the US wanted to spend its consular resources elsewhere. Given the current state of the EU, instead of relaxing travel security further, it may well be a good idea for the US to reconsider the visa-free travel program with Europe and require visas again. (Japan, Australia, and New Zealand are probably still fine for visa-free travel.)

Re:Ways around this

[currently_awake]

The interesting point is his own party is throwing gas on the bonfire, directly and publicly attacking him at every opportunity.

Re:Ways around this

[ooloorie]

But as usual in any country, a minority of pedantic idiots try to screw things up.

True, like when Democrats want to open borders in order to cement their political power, no matter what it does to the country. Or when European leaders ignore the clear mandate and desire by majorities to stop further immigration from mainly Muslim countries.

Coming up with pointless moronic rules, applying zero tolerance and feeling good about themselves for having done "a great job" at defending the country's best interests.

That's because in the US, unlike most other countries, once you have entered the country, there is very little government surveillance or control of foreigners/visitors. But, I agree: the US should simply abolish the visa-waiver program and return to stronger vetting when issuing visas.

Re:Ways around this

[jwdb]

And yet.. he owns a loss making golf course in Scotland.

Do you? I'm not certain but I'm fairly sure that I don't.

No, but I also didn't get a couple of million from my dad, otherwise I would. Just because he has it doesn't mean he had anything to do with earning it.

Re:Ways around this

[whoever57]

Your argument is that he is qualified to be in the White House because he inherited a bunch of money. Essentially, he is in the White House because of an accident of birth: you are arguing for something like a hereditary monarchy if his money qualifies him to be there.

His wealth and possessions are not impressive because he inherited the bulk of his wealth and would be wealthier had he not managed it himself.

Why do you think he refused to disclose his tax returns? We know he didn't pay taxes for a decade, so what worse information is there in his returns? Since image is everything to him, I suspect that his tax returns would show that his wealth is far smaller than he claims.

He's someplace I wish I could be, with resources I wish I had. To me, that's pretty damn successful.

I suspect that many, many people could be in the same position as him, had they got the same start in life as Trump had.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

You missed the important detail.

The previous status quo:
      If the US border officials didn't want to let you in, they could not detain you and you were free to turn around and walk away.

Now, people can get detained/held on Canadian soil by US border officials without the freedom to leave.

Big difference. Not at all the status quo.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

He has some skills. He got himself elected the head of the most powerful oligarchy in the world. Forget everything else: it's all static. The wealth, the gold penthouse luxury life, the beautiful wife, the wailing of the other faction of the oligarchy, the wailing of most of his own faction, etc. All that matters is that he won: he is the top oligarch in the polis. Once you realize that, you know for sure that he has some skills.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm just here to say thanks.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

No need to blame the media conspiracy.

You live in a bubble, or work for the entertainment industry (media)

A few tweets do not justify the vitriol that's been projected towards our President.

It isn't "a few tweets" taken out of context. The problem is that once you view those tweets in context, they paint an even bleaker picture. This is not an unfortunate choice of words, it is an unfortunate choice of thinking.

Re:Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

One part of my job is telling people to go to hell in a way that they look forward to the trip.

You're paid to shit-post on slashdot?

My calling in life.

Started when I was the president of a Youth Ice hockey group. Parents are rabid agents for their little future NHL stars, and they get in squabbles all the time.

People threaten lawsuits and sometimes even violence. I had a talent for starting out really nice, and could get most people on the losing end of an argument to think maybe their situation wasn't so bad.

But if they didn't at least grudgingly accept my decision, the white gloves came off. Oddly enough, the newly found talent came in very handy in my career as well.

You might see either one here.

Re:Ways around this

[nnull]

Why bother? If you're traveling abroad to the US, you can already afford burner phones and burner laptops. Laptops and phones are cheap now. Just add it to the costs of your travel.

Re:Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

Donald, Is that you?

Yup, Donald Duck.

Re: Ways around this

[postbigbang]

While some see this as a consequence of living with a privacy-be-damned era where are your details are centered on a single carried device, it's always been the choice of US Customs to search your stuff.

Doesn't matter if you made an incoming declaration or not. Assets are assets--- and people forget that digital assets are still assets.

Is searching a phone like a body cavity search? Some equate these two. For me, the good phone stays in the US, and I take a burner with me overseas. I suggest foreign visitors to the US do the same thing, if they believe their private details should be above suspicion by DHS. Change passwords frequently. Don't use things like Facebook apps while traveling. Always remove your cookies and browser privacy info.

Then remind your friends to vote.

Re:Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

The US is a beautiful country with arguably the worst government on earth.

Are you posting from North Korea or something? Challenge for you. Put forth 2 arguments. North Korea is a better Government than the USA, then Somalia is a better government than the USA.

After all you said "arguably", that means you can put forth a logical argument that will possibly make me change my mind and agree with you.

Challenge accepted?

Looking forward to both arguments.

Re:Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

You might learn that most of us are actually nice people

You guys should consider voting for some.

You ain't kidding!

Re: Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

This post might make me start hate US-Americans. Glad I am European.

Ah yes, the most civilized people on earth, with a fine history of human rights being preserved.

Re: Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

You won't have that in Europe (except Uk) and in most countries you would have strong rights to appeal. Of course not in UK. They do not even have a constitution.

Oh by golly, let's just say that Europe is a great place to get your stuff temporarily confiscated. Feel free to disagree.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah. Only two of those are worthy of impeachment . The others just demonstrate he's damaged goods.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

A visitor can of course effect change.

World War 1 is an excellent example of what a determined visitor can achieve.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

The vast majority of my experience has been from liberals that refuse to engage in legitimate debate and think that name-calling proves or improves their argument.

A less inflammatory way of saying this would be 'Don't raise your voice, improve your argument' though that just seemed to make them scream louder so I chose to use their own language instead.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually , most Android phones can be rooted just by plugging them in over USB. There is frequently a debug mode that can be enabled without unlocking the device, and this enables the device to be rooted without user intervention, beyond plugging in.

Apple basically got it right with iPhone in that if the device is supervised (which requires a device to be wiped), policy can prevent the device & the user from trusting a connection to any USB device.

A locked, supervised iOS device, with pairing disabled, has had no known local privilege escalations or unauthorized access since supervision became available in 2011. That doesn't mean it's not possible, but it's comparatively outstanding as a track record. I'm not counting the xkcd spanner method for access here.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

dude, just because others are doing it too, does not make it right.

Re: Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

dude, just because others are doing it too, does not make it right.

Remember, I'm not claiming right or wrong. I do however like to point out the double standard of those who are happy to accept everyone else doing this, but when America does the same thing, they act as if we're building ovens to burn liberals.

A big double standard it is. Why is that? And spare me the "we are talking about the USA only, and no other country can be mentioned" BS. Because do a little research - when anyone says anything negative about any other country, within a few posts, one of you chirps about how it's worse in America, and no one bats an eyelash. Let's hear some complaints about the other countries that have been doing this since the turn of the century.

crickets chirping is all we'll hear.

Re:Ways around this

[lgw]

Why the fuck do you fucking care so fucking much about his fucking choice of fucking words, snowflake?

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Simpler way: just don't visit the United States.

Allow me to present to you a lout and vociferous BULLSHIT!

That's a weird and nonsensical response to the passage you quoted.

Do you have dremams about killing 'Murricans, because we're so damn evil?

Nowhere did he/she suggest anything of the sort, not even a remote dislike of Americans or the country.

One of the strangest things is that so many people have such a white hot seeting hatred of all things American, that they feel that in their just cause, and in the inherent superiority of all other nations, that they can spew hatred and lies about teh evilz 'Murricans doing what everyone does.

But the person you are replying to did absolutely nothing of the sort whatsoever.

But hey, if you hate us that much for made up and non-factual reasons, feel free to stay away.

He/she never gave even the slightest impression they "hate" you. Where are you even getting that idea from? Are you really that emotionally sensitive and mentally defective that you can't understand that the slightest criticism of one thing in America doesn't mean such a person hates you and wants to kill you? There is something really really wrong with you at a fundamental level.

Re:Ways around this

[exomondo]

However, I have to admit that patience is not one of my virtues when presented with complete fabrications and dissembling.

And it is evident that the moment you lose your patience you just start making up complete and utter fabrications of your own and run with them, like the suggestion that the OP "hates you" and "wants to kill 'Muricans".

A pompous dickhead "I can wax rather poetic, and have quite a vocabulary" who is too dimwitted to even see his bullshit through his red-faced rage at the suggestion that people not visit America.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, I've been looking into this with multirom and others. So you're booting from internal microsd. Remove microsd, boots from internal memory. Would you have a good tutorial on how to do this? Or be willing to be interviewed for an article?

Quadling

Re:Ways around this

[Roger W Moore]

American border patrol was just given authority to conduct is security theatre in Canadian airports too

There is one subtle difference doing it in Canada though and that is while Canadian law requires you to tell the truth you have the option to withdraw from the process at any time and not enter the US. Hence if you are asked for your phone you can choose to decline but then you will not be allowed to travel to the US. This is actually quite a sensible arrangement: countries should be free to set their entrance requirements and foreign travelers should be free to decline to travel there if they do not like them. The problem is that if you come from Europe you are already in the US and declining leads to arrest and detention not just denied entry and a return flight home.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

"because people from most other countries understand that traveling anywhere requires intrusive searches and disclosures, and a significant possibility of getting turned away."

Fuck off you cunt. No it does not.

Re:Ways around this

[Roger W Moore]

...your government really needs to grow a pair.

The problem with the US government is that is has "grown a pair" but it has not yet grown a brain that is mature enough to know how to use them.

Re:Ways around this

[Wild_dog!]

From what I can glean you are not a liberal, but possibly a would fashion yourself a conservative. Would that be correct?

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see that argument being made at all. Nice strawman though, you fucking imbecile.

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

The only places it is easy to get into are the 3rd world shitholes everyone is trying to escape from. You know... Your home.

Re:Ways around this

[0111 1110]

Are there any other countries where this sort of thing goes on?

Paris-CDG for flights to the US. I was treated worse there than I have ever been in the US and I've been treated very badly in the US (randomly chosen almost every time I fly for search/interrogations and multi-hour interrogations etc).

TSA does not generally fondle your cock-n-ball package. I mean aside from a few pervs they don't usually get in there with their fingers and fully explore the frank-n-beans and it has never happened to me there. They just get very close by slightly touching your balls with the back of their hands while they touch 'where the leg meets the torso' as they put it and this only happens if something goes wrong with the scanners etc. It isn't routine. However the TSA did not seem to tell the French security people about this subtle distinction and presumably the instructions are sufficiently vague that those guys seem to think that a full on prison search is what the US wants. Happened to me. Never had a dude actually grab or squeeze my dick before and I wasn't happy about it. I freaked and pushed the guy down and almost missed my flight. They refused to let me on the plane at first because I didn't want some guy fondling my package and no I am not exaggerating. He was really doing that. As if he was slowly and carefully searching for something that might be hidden under my dick or balls. I tried to explain to them that in the US they don't do that unless checking you into prison or something, but of course they didn't particularly care what I had to say.

I honestly don't know if that guy was gay. While he and I were arguing about his sexual assault on me he claimed not to be, but he would probably say the same even if he were. I don't see how a straight guy could do that job though, but whatever. Whether he actually wanted to do what he did, whether he enjoyed it, was not the point. I felt almost physically sick. I think it gave me a slight taste of what it must be like to get raped. I did not expect to be having some novel homosexual experience with some French airport security guy and I really felt violated and disgusted for days or even weeks afterward.

I actually begged them to let the very pretty French airport security chick standing right there finish the search That would have been fine. Hell I would have payed something for that. She smiled when I asked, but of course they refused. Why I don't understand. I mean they claim it isn't sexual so what difference does it make if the pretty female 'searches' me? Hell it's not like I would have asked her to touch my dick. I just wanted to get on the plane.

Luckily this was France where people do tend to be better/nicer than in the US and another one of the security guys took pity on me (and maybe risked his job) by searching me without touching my genitals at all. What was weird was that he could not promise me in advance that he wouldn't grab my dick. He made me understand that he understood what I wanted and that I shouldn't worry, but he apparently was not allowed to actually promise me in advance that he wouldn't sex me up. I decided to trust him and indeed he didn't get anywhere near. My experience makes me wonder why they don't insert gloved fingers into females to make sure they aren't hiding anything up there. Seems unfair. If they are going to fully explore every millimeter of male genitals they should be doing the same to the females. Of course they really shouldn't be doing any of this. The vast majority of countries in the world don't and I'm pretty sure France only does this ritual (male only) sexual molestation for flights to the US.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

That has been there awhile as you said. What has changed is that if you didn't like the way they were treating you, you could decline the flight and simply walk away. Now you can't. If you don't like it and want to leave, they can detain you.

Re: Ways around this

[Cidtek]

This has been the case for many years. US Border Control agents clear airline passengers at Pearson Airport before you get to the US departures area gates. (Has nothing to do with Justin Trudeau. )

That all changed last week as a bill was introduced giving American border agents the power on Canadian soil to detain Canadians for something as simple as changing your mind. Up to now you could just walk away.

Re:Ways around this

[whoever57]

Prove it. "news" corporations are not acceptable as sources.

What you are saying is that someone else should prove their assertion, while you have proven none of your own, and by the way, you reserve the right to discount any sources that the other person might cite.

Let me rephrase what you are saying: "la, la, la ..." [hands over ears so you can't hear anything]

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

CHINA

Re:Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

Do you have dremams about killing 'Murricans, because we're so damn evil?

Nowhere did he/she suggest anything of the sort,

Do you understand the difference between asking a question and saying a person said something? Never mind, I answered my own question. But keep it up, this is kinda fun.

Re:Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

However, I have to admit that patience is not one of my virtues when presented with complete fabrications and dissembling.

And it is evident that the moment you lose your patience you just start making up complete and utter fabrications of your own and run with them, like the suggestion that the OP "hates you" and "wants to kill 'Muricans".

Okay, here we go ! ( I can change my language to the intellectual level of the person I'm responding to.

I asked a question. a rhetorical one. Seriously if you don't understand that asking a question isn't accusing someone of something, then I hope you are merely a troll, because I hate to call people stupid, but that's your two choices

A pompous dickhead

Oh come on - is that the best you can do? Pretty weak.

Re: Ways around this

[Jeremi]

The next step would be to deny entry for people with wiped phones.

Perhaps -- and then the countermeasure would be to modify the procedure so that instead of placing a recognizably "vanilla" OS on your phone, it would replace your OS with an image that contains only some of your favorite innocuous data and apps that you don't mind Customs poking around in.

And the cat-and-mouse game continues...

Re: Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, then you have to trust Huawei...

Re:Ways around this

[bernywork]

Get your head out of your arse.

A lot of people are fine once they get through the borders, we just feel that violated when going through your security procedures we'd rather go somewhere else and have some dignity left at the end of our journeys. Getting fingerprinted, having to answer questions about how much I earnt and my sexuality doesn't exactly enamour me, and I'm sure others, to visiting your country.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

I can see that public forums have become useless as sites for open debate. That anyone holding a contrary view, valid or not, is modded down with the same deference as children arguing on the playground.

Everything is hearsay so long as I am not arguing along with the 'in crowd'.

I guess that's the price for growing old. Time to go find other adults to converse with. Hopefully we can keep you kids from ruining the planet in the process.

Cya.

Re:Ways around this

[whoever57]

I can see that public forums have become useless as sites for open debate.

In other words, you know your point of view can't be sustained, so you would prefer to not have it challenged.

Based on some of your other posts, I suspect that you are a religious person. If this assumption is incorrect, then you can ignore most of the rest of this post.

What I see is someone who, despite some education has done poorly in life: you claim that you don't have much debt, but then, you don't appear to have many assets. You aspire to move your family into a customized bus. Really? You aspire to live in a bus? Perhaps what is clear is that you don't actually have much financial acumen. While you can pay your bills, you are not accumulating assets. Perhaps it's your inability to accumulate assets, despite working professional jobs that affects your viewpoint on Trump.

Personally, I have a lot of debt. But, I have assets that are worth much more.

But coming back to my supposition that you are a religious person, let me suggest that it is this aspect of your character that causes you to disbelieve the mainstream media. Trump is a misogynist, a racist, a person who doesn't pay his debts. These should disqualify any religious people from supporting him, so, a religious person (apart from those that hold to the prosperity theology) has to pretend that these facts don't exist. Since these facts are widely reported, you have to convince yourself that the media that convey these facts are not credible.

You can only survive if you put yourself in a bubble and pretend that these disturbing facts are untrue.

You should probably get some psychological help, since the inner conflicts you must be experiencing will make life difficult.

Re: Ways around this

[quadling]

I thought I replied to this, but it didn't show up. ezdiy, if you wouldn't mind, would you be willing to write this up as a tutorial, and maybe get interviewed for publication? Let me know. Thanks!

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

This is the last time I will respond to your bait.

I have worked in the entertainment industry. Radio more precisely. And they made it exceedingly clear that any media company falls squarely under the entertainment industry. Their only function was to gain ratings which paid the bills and provided paychecks. All the lies, mis-directions, biases etc are for entertainment purposes only. The Dollar was king. Nothing else.

Can I prove it ? No. do I care to? No. You have already demonstrated that you're incapable of considering a world-view that has already proven itself valuable to you. I promise as time goes on that view will change. I personally don't care. It's your life, live it as you please. Just don't fuck up the planet for the rest of us ok?

Your 'disturbing facts' are more a projection of a corporation that has fed you whatever it wants in order to get the ratings it needs to charge for advertising. There might be a kernel of truth but the rest is hugely overblown. Anyone that is capable of objectively looking at what's been presented from both side of the extremes should be intelligent enough to read between the lines.

I am glad you have assets. Don't forget to understand what depreciation will do to those over time. As for having a mortgage, hell no. I would rather own my own home outright, and be capable of moving where I please, when I please. With the Family in Tow thank you.

Last thing, anyone that goes through enough of another persons posts to find ammunition for their argument is the one that needs a psych eval. Good luck to ya.

Out.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

> A few tweets do not justify the vitriol that's been projected towards our President.

No, the fact that he's a short-sighted, self-centered, childish bragging narcissist does justify it, though!

Re:Ways around this

[whoever57]

Just don't fuck up the planet for the rest of us ok?

No, because Trump is going to do that. His pick for the EPA has a history. But, then I am sure that you will just dismiss that as untrue.

Your 'disturbing facts' are more a projection of a corporation that has fed you whatever it wants in order to get the ratings it needs to charge for advertising. There might be a kernel of truth but the rest is hugely overblown. Anyone that is capable of objectively looking at what's been presented from both side of the extremes should be intelligent enough to read between the lines.

LOL. I suppose the "grab them by the pussy" video was fake? I suppose the documented cases of failure to pay his bills are fake? I suppose the cases of racism in housing were fake? I suppose that the recent racist executive order was fake?

These are not "projections". They are facts that you want to pretend don't exist. Good luck in your fantasy land.

As I said before, your financial acumen is lacking. Why would you admire someone who uses debt to invest in property, yet think that using debt to buy several houses is bad (yes, I own more than one).

You are badly in denial (and as they say, it's not just a river).

I take it that my supposition that you are religious is correct. As I suspected, you cannot reconcile your religious beliefs with your support for Trump. That's because no Christian person should support him. He isn't even sincere in his opinion on Roe vs Wade: he held a contrary opinion just a few years ago. He is just mugging for the crowd. Putting on a show for the dumb.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Somalia, as terrible of a place as it may be, is not run by a total cunt.

North Korea, as terrible of a place as it may be, is not run by a total cunt.

There, satisfied?

Re: Ways around this

[Bert64]

Except that the supposed purpose of doing physical searching was to prevent you bringing illegal or dangerous physical items such as drugs or explosives.

Your phone is a physical item, but it's also a perfectly legal item that you have every right to own and carry with you. In some cases (eg note 7) phones could become explosive, but that's irrespective of what data is stored on them. There are only a limited number of ways that physical items can be brought in or out of a country, and all of these are monitored in one form of another.

The data on the other hand poses no immediate threat to the airport or the aircraft, and there are so many other ways you could bring data into the country. Anyone who actually has any criminal intent is not going to keep such data on their phone as they travel, they will travel with a clean phone and download their data again after they have landed.
Viewing the data on someone's personal device is a massive invasion of privacy, as well as putting them at risk of violating their employer's data protection policy (see the recent NASA story).

Re:Ways around this

[whoever57]

One more thing. How does the multiple marriages and well documented cheating on his wife square with your religious values?

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

Dammit I will bite again.

I suppose that the recent racist executive order was fake

A religion is not a race, and discriminating against a religion that has repeatedly attacked us and plotted to attack us and currently beheading people that don't agree with them in other countries is not racist. It's not profiling. It's ensuring the safety of the American people both foreign and domestic. I will take this example as a calibration to the extent I can consider the bias in the previous examples you quoted. A minor point considering the other egregious activities of former presidents.

yet think that using debt to buy several houses is bad

Why do you care that I prefer mobility without crippling debt? Does this make you insecure somehow? Because I postulated a differing opinion than yours? Why does this get your knickers in a twist?

you cannot reconcile your religious beliefs with your support for Trump

You can quit now really. Your attempt to marry religion with people that don't vilify Trump along with the 'in crowd' is just bothersome.

Good Day.

Re:Ways around this

[Actually, I do RTFA]

He's someplace I wish I could be, with resources I wish I had. To me, that's pretty damn successful.

It may be successful, but that hardly says anything about him. By that same definition, you can say King George wassuccessful, but that doesn't speak to his particular merits as opposed to say, what he was born with.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

You raise a great point. King George has been and gone and we have a history of his activities throughout his lifetime. Trump hasn't had his first 100 days in office and the media isn't giving him a chance to prove himself.

This divisiveness is what threatens to tear this nation apart.

Re:Ways around this

[Gussington]

Prove it. "news" corporations are not acceptable as sources.

You clearly don't understand how logic works, and this is a requirement for a rational discussion.

No, you don't. I have seen and read what he has said. It's not what the Media is saying.

I've already said it has nothing to do with "the media" (do you notice how it's always some vague undefined enemy with these dictator types?) Yet you continue with this talking point as if saying it enough times will make it true.

Re:Ways around this

[Gussington]

The screaming / crying liberals are driving nail after nail into the coffin of their own regressive movement. Keep it up!

I'm not liberal, but don't let facts get in the way of your rant...

Re:Ways around this

[slashrio]

If ever I would feel inclined to visit the US again (my latest experience there made me decide not to), I'd put my data containing file system (/home/nemo/) symmetrically encrypted on a cloud somewhere, erase it from the phone, and then happily travel into that beautiful but nasty country, d/l the whole thing and decrypt it. Follow the same procedure upon return.

Re: Ways around this

[slashrio]

The next counter measure would be to replace the good stuff with some garbage, instead of only wiping it.

Re: Ways around this

[postbigbang]

We very much agree.

Safety is a concern, but assets flow as well.

In reality, it's intimidation and security theatre.

Re:Ways around this

[whoever57]

A religion is not a race, and discriminating against a religion that has repeatedly attacked us and plotted to attack us ...

Let's not forget his comments about Mexicans. But more importantly, the attackers have universally been men. Perhaps we should ban men? I mean, it's not like non-muslims have done terrorist acts like the Oklahoma bombing, is it?

What you are trying to do is split hairs in order to justify supporting a bigot.

What he did was definitely profiling. His approaches were based on falsehoods. For example, the idea that we can't vet Syrian refugees -- Syrians have family booklets that give a lot of information about them and allow effective vetting.

But let's get back to his attitudes towards women. Do you support a man cheating on his wife? Do you support divorce and remarriage? Do you support disrespecting women through unwanted sexual attacks?

Why do you care that I prefer mobility without crippling debt?

My debt is not crippling. My mortgage payments are less than rent would be. I have tenants paying rent that covers more than the mortgage on the houses in which they live.

I am not the one getting my knickers in a twist over debt: you seem to be the person with an irrational aversion to debt. Your idol declares himself he king of debt, but you think that ordinary people should not use sensible amounts of debt?

I have no problem with your choices. I just note that it shows a lack of financial acumen on your part.

As for that mobility: I have worked (as in received a paycheck and paid taxes) in 4 different countries. In how many countries have you worked?

Re: Ways around this

[ezdiy]

DM @catbrainland on twitter

tutorial is a bit tricky, as my setup is for obsolete handset (Honor 3C), but i guess we can put together something recent.

Re:Ways around this

[ghoul]

Wasnt that what Ahmedijinad say about Israel? Jews are wonderful people but the current regime in Israel is racist and needs to be removed.

  It was spun by the media that he said Israel needs to be destroyed.

What makes you think the Trump friendly media like Breitbart and Fox would not spin any such statement into foreign leaders threatening USA?

Re:Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

Somalia, as terrible of a place as it may be, is not run by a total cunt.

North Korea, as terrible of a place as it may be, is not run by a total cunt.

There, satisfied?

Meh, just name calling, and nothing of substance. Anyhow, if you've noticed, our total cunt is having a few issues with getting his way. Stand by for more.

Therein lies the difference. Try that with one of your preferred leaders.

Anyhow, I'm still holding the popcorn and Tequila party to watch this mess, you're invited too, but for some folks that won't come to America, maybe we'll do Skype.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Cow Ward]

They can't deny you entry to the US if you're a citizen, and I'm not aware of cases where Americans were forced to unlock their phones at the border (although I could be wrong about that).

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Cow Ward]

"America" is the US. "North America" includes Canada and Mexico. "The Americas" are the two continents of North America and South America.

Re:Ways around this

[werepants]

Trump hasn't had his first 100 days in office and the media isn't giving him a chance to prove himself.

This divisiveness is what threatens to tear this nation apart.

First of all, the media is being amazingly honest in their reporting of Trump. For instance, how do you know that Trump has called the media dishonest? Because the media has itself told you about his statements. The media is SO honest, that they are faithfully reporting on someone who is disparaging them.

Secondly, Trump has been given every chance to prove himself: it's just that he's attempting to follow through on campaign promises which were known to be unconstitutional, stupid or worse at the time that he originally made them. So people are rightly calling him out on his boneheaded authoritarian policies, which have been known about on some level since the early days of his campaign. Secondly, he has badly botched several of his implementations such that they have caused confusion, disorganization, and outright failure in many cases.

The executive order banning immigration is the best example: it's unconstitutional, because it has a religious basis and thus violates the first amendment. It's stupid, because no immigrant from any of those countries has ever killed anybody in a terrorist act on US soil, and it doesn't offer any meaningful increase in safety. It was poorly implemented, because it was rushed out with no coordination among government agencies and apparently didn't get the review of someone who actually knows how the government works, because it was a matter of mere hours before it was shut down by the judicial branch.

So, should we just say that unconstitutional, stupid, poorly implemented policies are ok because the guy is just starting out? Or should we call a spade a spade, and say that he's inept, regardless of whether it's day 1 or day 1000 of his term?

Finally, who is being divisive? The left, many of whom have said that they will willingly support Trump's policies and appointments if they seem to be good for the country, based on individual merit? Or the right, who said that they would oppose any and all goals of the Obama administration, regardless of merit, to make sure that he failed?

One thing you really, really need to figure out: Trump isn't a conservative. He's not the champion of the working class. He's an authoritarian and a narcissist, who lies pathologically and fundamentally doesn't believe his opinions and moods are subject to little nuisances like facts.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

the media is being amazingly honest in their reporting of Trump

I will be honest, I stopped reading there. The mainstream media ( Entertainment industry ) has completely left the truth behind and is abusing it's power in horrific fashion with character assassinations.

Enjoy your Koolaid, and please, take the time to perform your own research, rather than obey what the TV god tells you.

Good Day.

Re:Ways around this

[werepants]

Enjoy your Koolaid, and please, take the time to perform your own research, rather than obey what the TV god tells you.

Nice job on not refuting a single one of my points. Guess how much TV coverage of politics I have watched since Trump's election? Zero. If you think I'm biased, point out where I've said anything factually untrue about Trump's actions? Was the executive order constitutional? Is it actually meaningful action to prevent terrorism? Was it well implemented?

It's remarkable that your sig calls out liberals for the use of ad hominems, but you resort to ad hominem on literally my very first criticism of your nonsense. Your hypocrisy would be amusing if it wasn't so sad.

Re:Ways around this

[hucker75]

Or, don't fly. Other means of transport don't have this problem. Flying is also problematic in having to turn up two hours early, and having to print your return ticket on the internet when you are on holiday and don't have access to it. No thanks, I'm never flying again.

Re:Ways around this

[exomondo]

I asked a question. a rhetorical one. Seriously if you don't understand that asking a question isn't accusing someone of something, then I hope you are merely a troll, because I hate to call people stupid, but that's your two choices

Well no, obviously you don't even know what a rhetorical question is, you aren't expecting an answer but rather insinuating the belief of the OP. For somebody who claims to have "quite a vocabulary" it must be rather embarrassing for you to have to have this pointed out to you. Of course perhaps you're just trying to weasel out of your rage posting by pretending you don't know what a rhetorical question is.

Re:Ways around this

[Ol Olsoc]

I asked a question. a rhetorical one. Seriously if you don't understand that asking a question isn't accusing someone of something, then I hope you are merely a troll, because I hate to call people stupid, but that's your two choices

Well no, obviously you don't even know what a rhetorical question is, you aren't expecting an answer but rather insinuating the belief of the OP.

I read what you wronte and I don't believe it, I mean I read it, I believe you wrote it. But it beggars the imagination that you included the very definition of rhetorical in what you said I wrote.

But since we are going pedantic, allow me to clear this up a little. Rhetorical is an adjective

of, relating to, or concerned with the art of rhetoric:

"repetition is a common rhetorical device"

synonyms: stylistic oratorical linguistic verbal

expressed in terms intended to persuade or impress:

"the rhetorical commitment of the government to give priority to primary education"

synonyms: extravagant grandiloquent magniloquent

(of a question) asked in order to produce an effect or to make a statement rather than to elicit information.

Bold and italics mine. Well there you have it. Thanks for playing, and come back when I don't have to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Ciao, me hearty! This conversation is ended.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

You clearly don't know what an Ad-Hominem is.

Good day.

Re:Ways around this

[werepants]

You clearly don't know what an Ad-Hominem is.

Classic. That statement is itself an ad hominem attack. It reminds me of something... oh yeah:

Ad-Hominem attacks are a Trump supporter's concession of defeat. The more names they call you, the greater your victory.

I have to say, it's rare to win an internet argument so clearly and decisively, but you sir have made it both easy and enjoyable. I hope we meet again. ;)

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

No, ad ad hominem attack is name calling. As my sig suggests.

The media may have the power to make up whatever it wants, you I can ignore.

Bye.

Re:Ways around this

[exomondo]

Wrong, what you stated was that you were asking a rhetorical question, something you clearly fail to understand:

"A common example is the question "Can't you do anything right?" This question, when posed, is intended not to ask about the listener's ability, but rather to insinuate the listener's lack of ability."

So when I say Do you really need to keep up this display of ignorance just because you like to buttfuck your mom? I'm obviously insinuating something in that rhetorical question right there just like you did with your rhetorical question.

Re:Ways around this

[werepants]

No, ad ad hominem attack is name calling.

Wrong. Here's the correct answer:

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

An ad hominem would be saying "Hylandr is wrong because he's dumb" and is logically fallacious - a dumb person can make a good argument. However, saying "Hylandr is wrong for reasons x, y, and z" is not an ad hominem attack. When you claimed that I obey TV gods, you were attacking me, rather than the substance of my argument. Textbook example of ad hominem.

Re:Ways around this

[werepants]

I should also note - name calling certainly does qualify as an ad hominem, but there are lots of things that qualify as ad hominem attacks that are not name calling. All A are B but not all B are A.

Re:Ways around this

[Hylandr]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

For example, if the truth of the argument relies on the truthfulness of the person making the argument—rather than known facts—then pointing out that the person has previously lied is not a fallacious argument.

Out.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Solution: International travelers should just avoid the USA

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure at this point you can apply for asylum almost anywhere in the world if you just tell them you are an american.

I live in South Korea, it's a great place, I'll bet they'll grant you asylum.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

We mostly hate all things american, except american people to some extent.

We give you the benefit of the doubt, that you do not support your evil terrorist government.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

After a few of your posts, I have to conclude that you really think that america is the status quo and not worse than other countries, even in the developing world.

You really believe it.

It leads me to believe, you have got all your facts without ever leaving your country for more than a weekend at a time.

You get all hot and bothered because *everybody* who is not american has some critizism, have you ever stopped to think that "If everybody is crazy and you are the only one sane, MAYBE its the other way around ?"

Re:Ways around this

[Gussington]

What makes you think the Trump friendly media like Breitbart and Fox would not spin any such statement into foreign leaders threatening USA?

Who cares. The few million red neck Americans who follow that shit are a lost cause, but the 7 billion other people in the world who don't listen to trash alt-right American media will understand the difference.

Re:Ways around this

[Shirley Marquez]

Except for the fact that you may not have the right to stay anywhere else, short of applying for asylum.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

Has nothing at all to do with Trudeau. US Border Patrol has been at every major airport in Canada (for flights going into the US _only_) for something like 15 years. It saves a tremendous amount of time when traveling.

Re: Ways around this

[Immerial]

You can do this with the Apple stuff as well, do an encrypted backup to an SD card/USB chiclet (low profile) and wipe the phone. Restore from backup on the other side.

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

The people who paint broad strokes with shitty vocabulary are usually rabid supporters of #45. You can tell by the level of stupidity and the whole "y u hatez merrica" 4chan style rhetoric. Also an indicator that they are alt-right which is the spawn of the 4chan world. So the sewer of the internet has spilled out into the rest of it.

They respond to any contrary opinion with ridicule and factually unsound arguments. Like their so-called orange leader. There's no way to reason with them. utter and merciless ridicule is the ONLY way to stop them. It works wonders for me on twitter. They usually block me due to their utter humiliation. But Thomas Jefferson said it best "Ridicule is the only weapon that can be used against unintelligible propositions". Ergo any idiotic statement that clearly flies in the face of facts should only be responded to with utter and merciless ridicule.

Re:Ways around this

[LienRag]

You might learn that most of us are actually nice people - and that would mess with your preconceptions.

Well, that's not exactly what I learned from slashdotters like the GP...

Re:Ways around this

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a US citizen living outside the US. I return to visit the US now and again. I was last there in September 2016, not too long ago, but before the new administration. During that visit to the US, I also visited Canada. I was not asked about any cellphone or computer by any government agent. Nobody tried to access data. Nor did I observe anyone being accosted by government agents for that purpose. And those observations also apply to previous visits. Is all this concern that I read about simply since January 20?

Opportunity for some country

[Anonymous Coward]

Some poor third world country could offer diplomatic pouch courier service for nice tidy sum. From foreign companies who doesn't want to get spied on to wealthy Americans who want to hide tax haven from the government.

Hyperbole stew

[SlaveToTheGrind]

If we do nothing to resist, pretty soon everyone will have to unlock their phone and hand it over to a customs agent while they're getting their passport swiped

Think about how much time and manpower that would take. Think about it. That's not going to happen.

This topic is definitely something we need to vigorously discuss, but giving airtime to over-the-top nonsense like this isn't the way to do it.

Come on, Slashdot.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[buss_error]

giving airtime to over-the-top nonsense like this isn't the way to do it.

Yes, and no.
The US military (which includes everything from SEAL Team 6 down to your local police officer it seems now) has a concept of "developed capacity is intent to use it." Yes, using this thought process means that since every woman has a vagina, then she has the intent to become a prostitute, which is absurd on it's face.
That's kind of the point here.
If TSA/ICE/some random cop on the beat has the capacity to slurp your phone, then obviously, while the intent might not be there, they certinaly could if they had the slightest reason do to so. Such actions as looking at them. Not looking at them. Appearing nervous. Appearing calm. Being dressed too well. Being dressed poorly. Being dressed differently. Not being dressed differently. Speeding. Not speeding. Going slower than the speed limit. Using a highway. Using back roads.
These are all excuses used in court to preform a "reasonable suspicion" search, including one officer in Georgia that used all of these excuses in a single month. (I'll add there wasn't a single conviction in the bunch, only complaints of rights violations where were dismissed.)

The point is that "over the top" applies not to just viewing with alarm the possibility of police abuse, it's been proven to happen. Frequently. Most often with absolutely no consequence to the officer, department, or state actor involved.

I forget where, but it's been said "If you don't give weight to your principals, then the first wind will carry them off." And I absolutely disagree that constitutional protections "don't apply" to the boarder. Yes, I'm aware that's how courts have ruled, but I am not saying it isn't treated like that, I'm saying it is a break with the honor of our laws to do so. Further, nothing in the constitution or the bill of rights denies civil rights other than voting or holding certain public offices to non-citizens, and it doesn't say "while in the territory of the US". These rights should apply in downtown USA the same as they apply where ever the United States holds defacto jurisprudence, even if it's not our country. In other words, no more "black sites" and "rendition" allowed.

We have been told over and over again that "They hate us for our freedoms", but I don't see that we have many freedoms we can be proud of any more, let alone ones others would envy. Indeed, I think we've done much more damage to ourselves with our "security" stance than the terrorists have done.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

As a US citizen you have not lost one single of your rights as spelled out in the Bill of Rights or the US Constitution. Not a single one. The purpose of the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and the laws based upon those rights is to provide a citizens legal right to recourse in the court system. But to get to court to you need to show that you were harmed in some way. Either you were charged with a crime or that your personal and private life has been materially harmed. And US protections do not apply to any one outside of the US. NSA foreign activities are not bound to the Constitution or Bill of Rights. The only law in conducting international espionage operations is don't get caught.

Re: Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

so if it only happens to 1 in a 1000 people it's ok?

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

The fourth amendment reads:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

There's some wiggle room in there, but the intent seems clear. Searches should be limited to those accused of a crime, and must be authorized by a judge/magistrate that there is probable cause.

Re: Hyperbole stew

[SlaveToTheGrind]

so if it only happens to 1 in a 1000 people it's ok?

Yes, dear AC, if it happens due to some level of reasonable suspicion. I take it you would prefer a system where CBP has no authority to search anything under any circumstances? Hopefully you don't actually live in the U.S. and thus benefit from its protections as you sit in the comfort of your own home (ok, ok, or your parent's basement) and crank out ignorant anonymous posts.

Mod me down again, anarchists.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[SlaveToTheGrind]

As I said in the part of my post you didn't quote, "[t]his topic is definitely something we need to vigorously discuss." I actually agree with pretty much everything you said.

But that has nothing to do with my original point (clearly missed by reflexive mods) that spewing rhetorical nonsense like Larson is doing is unnecessary and counterproductive to a thoughtful, rational discussion about the subject.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

Thus the current Trump vendetta on brown people. He is accusing Mexicans of being ''bad hombres" whatever the fuck that means. He is accusing the Muslims of being Terrorists.

So if you're brown, you get fucked by entering or leaving the country. Every time.

If you're white and don't have a non-white sounding name, you're cool, even if you are armed to the teeth.

See this is the problem. You could theoretically force everyone to have their phone slurped when they cross the border, but unless someone is actually looking for something, no good will come of it. If you want to be safe, leave your smartphone at home, remove the sim card from it and put it in a burner phone, set the PIN lock and when they want to slurp the phone, there will be nothing to slurp off it. At worst your contacts list and last 50 sms messages if you don't lock PIN lock the sim card. The real risk is that if you're an active provocateur of violence, that will be a reason to deny you entry. Anything else (from being a drug peddler to a prostitute) is not something that can be proved at the border but might warrant searching your luggage for evidence of wrongdoing.

The best way to avoid looking like you're guilty of something is to not use the native apps that people use for doing evil shit. So delete those facebook, twitter, gmail, apps from your device, use the web browser for that, wipe the cache, cookies and saved credentials off the device when you are 5 miles from the border, and nothing will happen to you. If they want to know your facebook or twitter login, use one you don't actively use, or play dumb ("my what?"). If there is no app on the device, then there reason to suspect you use that social media service. I don't use facebook, I don't like facebook, if they want to look at my facebook there will be nothing but cat and baby pictures on it. I don't even tag people in photos.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

concept of "developed capacity is intent to use it." Yes, using this thought process means that since every woman has a vagina, then she has the intent to become a prostitute

The rest of your post makes sense, but this doesn't. Surely there is a distinction between consciously developing a capacity (e.g., learning to pole dance as the intent to become a stripper) and unconsciously developing a capacity (e.g., growing a vagina as a function of your DNA).

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

which is absurd on it's face.

which is absurd on it is face

Re:Hyperbole stew

[buss_error]

As a US citizen
I believe I pointed out that one need not be a citizen to have civil rights. A point you seem to be ignoring? I will presume it is unintentional.

you have not lost one single of your rights as spelled out in the Bill of Rights or the US Constitution. Not a single one.

Incorrect. I have lost many rights. The right to be secure in my person and effects is routinely violated whenever a law enforcement officer searches my car (happens about 5 times a year - I live near a prison and they sometimes search after an escape when they have absolutely no probable cause to suspect that I am transporting an escapee). I have my right to remain silent violated when a court orders that I unlock my phone, or to decrypt my files. I have my right to representation violated by voter ID laws that are unconstitutional but not struck down to "avoid voter confusion." I have my right to free speech violated every time I keep my mouth shut for fear of angering government and "drawing notice" - and that happens, I've seen it from both sides.. You have your rights violated every single time you are stopped and the police demand "license, registration, and proof of insurance" because now you are being forced to prove you did not commit a crime, rather than the government having to prove you did.

These may seem like small potatoes to you, and if so, I will remind you that there is no such thing as "being a little bit pregnant." Either you have rights, or you don't.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[buss_error]

spewing rhetorical nonsense like Larson is doing is unnecessary and counterproductive to a thoughtful, rational discussion about the subject.

I apologize if I seem to have ignored that point. I will say that there might - possibly - be a slippery slope there. As an example, every totalitarian feels that a free and responsible press is desirable - as long as they get to define what is "responsible", and can remove the "free" from those that are "irresponsible".

But your point is well taken: Hyperbole, hysteria, and factually free discussion is antithetical to reaching conclusions and solutions that are acceptable to the majority while being consistent with freedom.
Which brings me to the next of my worries, the tyranny of the majority. I know that it is impossible, but my desire is a system of government where, if one wished, one could simply turn their back on the government and everyone else and just not be bothered. Impossible, I know, but I wish it were not.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

Americans have never understood that their treasured "Bill of Rights" actually limits their rights by its very existence.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really, you must have failed civics class. The Bill of Rights enumerates the most essential liberties that hadn't already been enshrined in the constitution. These are things that needed to be specifically protected.

Nothing about those rights says that you can't have other rights or that the government has to search your person, papers and effects just because the 4th amendment doesn't apply to the situation. It just means that the government can search them.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

I forget where, but it's been said "If you don't give weight to your principals, then the first wind will carry them off." And I absolutely disagree that constitutional protections "don't apply" to the boarder.

Someone's still in high school but doesn't live at home anymore. How else could a boarder have principals.

Re: Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

It's to painful to actually list how free we aren't. Reading this thread reminds me of how pointing out facts will get a STFU pinko commie Muslim , love it or leave it....

It's getting to be a matter of real principal, why do I carry a device like this? Why do I even get online for anything? Velvet handcuffs. Not participating is the only real way to change things.

Will this become a crime as well?

No I don't have a cell phone, no I don't have social media...

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

"They hate us for our freedoms" - that has been nonsensical for hundreds of years. The underground rail road always ran and still do, From the USA To Canada. Lady Liberty turned her back on New York ages ago.

Re: Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, you already self-describe as a slave. So no real surprise that you have no interest in freedom for yourself and others.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, at the border, all searches are considered reasonable.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[yndrd1984]

One of the strongest arguments against adding the Bill of Rights to the Constitution was that by calling out specific rights people would be justified in treating those rights differently than ones that didn't make the list. The whole point of the 9th amendment was to try to alleviate those concerns.

Of course, when government power was being greatly expanded to allow New Deal legislation, the Supreme Court decided that law that violated different rights deserved different levels of scrutiny - and guess which rights ended up triggering 'strict scrutiny' in Footnote Four?

So yes, it's a perfectly valid interpretation of legal history to say that the net effect of the Bill of Rights was to reduced the overall scope of rights held by Americans.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

The fouth amendment does not apply to non-US citizens. Which is why I've refused to travel to the states for over a decade and encourage everyone to do the same. You can have your "freedom", I'll go spend my money elsewhere.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is absolutely ridiculous. The ONLY legitimate purpose of a search at the border should be to determine if the individual has proper documentation and is not an immediate threat.

Digging through personal effects and data is nothing more than a "fishing expedition" in hopes of finding some reason to confiscate.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[johannesg]

Funny, I've always thought that "they hate us for our freedoms" was a joke, and understood as such by everyone. Are you telling me people seriously mean it when they say that? And that other people believe it? Because I always thought they hate you for destroying their countries and ruining their lives, and not so much about what you do when you are at home...

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

giving airtime to over-the-top nonsense like this isn't the way to do it.

Yes, and no.

The US military (which includes everything from SEAL Team 6 down to your local police officer it seems now) has a concept of "developed capacity is intent to use it." Yes, using this thought process means that since every woman has a vagina, then she has the intent to become a prostitute, which is absurd on it's face.

If God hadn't intended for women to be prostitutes, he'd have made them hardier and uglier.

Nothing is absurd enough not to work as a basis for zealotry. Witch hunts focused mostly on women exactly because their vagina made them susceptible to be a vessel for evil.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Kiuas]

I forget where, but it's been said "If you don't give weight to your principals, then the first wind will carry them off

I agree with this completely. As a Finn I've often been pondering recently what I'd do if the time comes to visit the US for business reasons or otherwise and this idea of just getting brand new device to bring along has been in my thoughts. However, in the context of your quote it has one massive setback: it's yielding to the system by saying 'fine, I agree that you can search everything I have so I bought a device with nothing on it'. It's not going to help the situation in the long term.

In fact I can see this kind of behavior being used to tighten the screws of surveillance even more: "Sir, we have noticed that you are on Facebook/Gmail/twitter but you're not logged into any of those on your device, please provide the passwords so we can verify you're not trying to hide any illegal activities'. That is, having a 'fresh' wiped device could itself be in the future seen as cause for 'reasonable suspicion', only making the problem worse.

In so far as I can see, the only way is not to try to go around the surveillance by means of technical solutions, but to oppose it in courts en masse. It's a hard route to take, but failing to stand up for your constitutional rights will, in the light of history, only lead to them being slowly chiselled away.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

The border isn't in the USA, so your prized constitution doesn't apply there.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[currently_awake]

I've wondered what I could do if I had the resources, to play games with American border security. How about a custom cellphone using trinary logic and a custom OS that looks like android. That could keep them spinning for weeks.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[currently_awake]

Take note nowhere does the phrase "Within the USA" appear in that quote. The Constitution of the USA defines the powers of the US Government and its agents, it doesn't grant rights. Therefore it should apply world wide, not just "inside the USA", meaning the border zones should still be protected.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, some people say and believe that with absolute seriousness.

I agree with what YOU thought. Americans interfering with other countries is why other countries hate them.

While politically, Australia is very buddy-buddy with the US. Most Australians dislike the US for the same reason: too much US influence in Australia.

The whole thing reminds me of the US approach to bullying in schools AKA bullies are never punished.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

As a legal permanent resident who was technically "out of status" for a little while while I wanted for USCIS to process my papers, I read the constitution to try and work out whether I currently had any rights.

I was unable to determine it, and assumed I had none.

"Further, nothing in the constitution or the bill of rights denies civil rights [...] to non-citizens,"
It doesn't GRANT them either.

As a legal permanent resident, I still have no idea whether I actually have any rights, and I still work under the assumption that I have none: if I see a police car, I make a turn.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

fuck, typo: "waited", not "wanted"

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. The Fourth Amendment recognizes the right of persons to be secure in their papers, personal effects etc. except when it's reasonable to search them - i.e. you have a justifiable reason to suspect them of wrongdoing.

Merely crossing from one country into another isn't itself a reason to suspect anyone of anything.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

You think Trump hates your freedom because you ruined his life? I don't get it...

Re:Hyperbole stew

[strikethree]

Funny, I've always thought that "they hate us for our freedoms" was a joke, and understood as such by everyone.

No. Many do hate Americans for their freedoms.

Many people believe that an individual should not have the freedom to speak out; especially against the government.

Many people think that an individual should not be free to practice whatever religion they want (Islam!).

Many people think that the state is the center of existence, not the individual.

Many people want strong and dominating government that tell people what they should be doing, unlike America where you can do whatever you want, including sitting on your ass doing nothing.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

Your supposition doesn't really explain vitriol where countries the US has not affected contain people who go beyond intellectual critique. A couple of years back I visited a forum for Ethiopian concerns. The people on the forum had a thread where the opinion was unanimous that the US had committed and was continuing to commit a genocide against the Ethiopian people. I pointed out that the Ethiopian population had more than doubled since the late 1980's.. Hardly a successful genocide. They went silent. The most we have done to Ethiopia is lend aid. The most we haven't done for Ethiopia is defend them against the Egyptians so they can dam the Nile and irrigate their very special plateau. Neither is destroying lives and ruining their country. I don't think the Ethiopians hate our freedoms. I think like many they have a huge inferiority complex and they rationalize the current situation by blaming a prosperous country for their woes.

    The Ottoman Empire was a dominant force in the world. It appears that many former territories of that empire have not progressed intellectually any more than they have industrially. It is a path of least resistance emotionally to conclude that the former dominance is the proper state of affairs and the current state is the fault of the current dominant power. Throw in a religious difference and there you have it.

    The US has used a big stick at times but destroying countries and ruining lives? Iraq most certainly. Can't think of any others. That's not to say we haven't had an effect. It's just that any country we influenced that is ruined was already ruined. Some we ruined have now sprung back under US influence to much better than their former state. I abhor some aspects of our foreign policy but your accusations are far fetched and unsupportable. They are more like the rationalizations of those who ask why they are not better off and proper intellectual investigation of the question yields only uncomfortable truths.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

> We have been told over and over again that "They hate us for our freedoms".

Coming to think of it...it's true!

Re:Hyperbole stew

[Anonymous Coward]

> If God hadn't intended for women to be prostitutes, he'd have made them hardier and uglier.

Nothing wrong with prostitutes. They provide a pretty necessary service to the community and I respect them.
Unlike TSA goons.

Re:Hyperbole stew

[RyoShin]

I've always seen "hate us for our freedoms" to be a "true patriot" line: It's something that the authoritarians and/or warmongers bring out for the dimwitted masses to excuse whatever bullshit our government is trying to do at the moment. Everyone with critical thinking skills knows differently.

Sadly, it seems that latter group comprises only a simple majority of American voters, not a significant one.

Re: Hyperbole stew

[buss_error]

* will get a STFU pinko commie Muslim , love it or leave it....*
I like to point out to those that say "America, love it or leave it!" is like saying "My mother; drunk or sober!".

When someone you love commits an error, one generally, out of love, points out the error. It is not a statement of hate to say "Hey, that's wrong", it can be the greatest expression of love. This is what confuses some, as they use the attempt to discuss a possible error or injustice not to correct that error or injustice, but as a club to stifle and shut down discussion. Because if one thinks something is wrong and says so, obviously they do it out of hate and a desire to destroy. That's a pretty sicko attitude I think.

Attack Software

[pubwvj]

So what happens when travelers start carrying attack hardware & software that bites back. Imagine that the border agent sticks your phone into his reader and along with your data your phone injects a virus into his system. This can be done at very low levels. Or your 'phone' might simply send out 200,000 volts of power through the connection frying boarder patrol's expensive equipment.

Sounds like a good plot for a thriller spy movie...

And it's all possible.

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

volts of power

News for nerds, huh?

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that you'd probably be arrested for "damaging government equipment" or, more likely since it's related to national security, terrorism.

Re:Attack Software

[taustin]

As is the lengthy prison term you'll be serving for obstruction of justice, one count for each person delayed by the damaged equipment.

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh yes, the land of the free.

Re:Attack Software

[CrimsonAvenger]

1) The volt is not a measure of power.

2) You're not getting 200KV out of a cellphone battery.

Re:Attack Software

[HornWumpus]

Soft rubberduckie?

Is it even possible for a phone to tell USB that it's a keyboard?

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to be a pedant learn some knowledge.

1) Voltage isn't a measure of power, but it is a measure of ESD tolerance.

2) You can get any voltage you want out of a cell phone battery. The only question is how many amps at that voltage.

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

you could with a step-up converter, transformer etc, but it would be to obvious.

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

justice

“You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means”

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to be the one carrying the malware, you inject it on someone's phone while their sitting around on the public unsecured wifi on the airport.

They can't trace it back to you, and you get a free piggyback into the government network which someone else will take the fall for? Fantastic! That's the problem with these sorts of techniques, the people who can actually do damage are simply enabled by the incompetent policies put in place by people who don't understand the technology.

Really if anyone needs to be locked up for terrorism, it's the person who came up with a policy who enables hackers to do damage to government systems.

Re:Attack Software

[Kjella]

So what happens when travelers start carrying attack hardware & software that bites back.

They'll fuck you back harder.

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

That implies that DHS cares about whom they send to prison. Here's a hint, they don't, they just care about sending somebody to prison for "terrorism" from time to time in order to have an excuse to continue violating the constitution.

Re:Attack Software

[Gussington]

Or your 'phone' might simply send out 200,000 volts of power through the connection frying boarder patrol's expensive equipment.

Sounds like a good plot for a thriller spy movie...

And it's all possible.

And all easily preventable. Or do you think the smart people that create such machines haven't thought about that?

Re:Attack Software

[Man On Pink Corner]

You can get any voltage at any amount of current from a cell phone battery. The only question is for how long.

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

"So what happens when travelers start carrying attack hardware & software that bites back. "

More people get tossed into prison is what happens. No need to be stupid about it. Just don't bring a phone at all, or wipe it prior to going on the trip (And perhaps after returning as you have no idea what the border PUT on your phone while extracting everything) or rent one.

Re:Attack Software

[dbIII]

So what happens when travelers start carrying attack hardware & software that bites back

They get thrown in a cell and get the utter shit beaten out of them by half a dozen guys while the report says something about falling down some stairs.
We are not talking about professional law enforcement here remember but one step below mall cops.

Re:Attack Software

[SeriousTube]

You can't get 100 megavolts from a cell phone battery for any length of time.

Re:Attack Software

[bheerssen]

Hey, if you think ten years in Leavenworth sounds like fun, go right ahead.

Re:Attack Software

[taustin]

Indeed, one of the fundamental principles of freedom is property ownership. That means you aren't allowed to destroy other people's property with booby-traps without being punished.

If you don't like it, live in a place without property ownership rights.

The correct answer to laws you don't like is to change the law, not engage in criminal acts. Of course they believe they can act lawlessly - people like you do so all the time, so it must be OK.

Re:Attack Software

[Man On Pink Corner]

Probably not, due to corona losses and such. But the point stands. Energy is not power is not current.

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

"JUSTICE" in America means theft by govt, rape, MURDER of innocent people at home and abroad, political corruption, stomping all over your rights, paper violations, surveillance, datamining, buying and selling your souls, perpetual punishment for wrongs, mass imprisonment, abuse.
All while you sit back dumb as fuck watching the simpsons wondering why you cant make your mortgage payment or health insurance, or even some simple fucking steak on sunday.
This is all valid JUSTICE in America.
JUSTICE for not getting off your ass and throwing it all straight back to hell where it came from.
Justice is coming for you.

Re:Attack Software

[gweihir]

Have fun staying in solitary while waiting to be deported. Or maybe spending, say, 20 years in prison before being deported. While I understand the sentiment, it does not get much more stupid than this.

Re:Attack Software

[gweihir]

1. Indeed.
2. Yes, you could, but the meter-long porcelain or glass isolator you would need may be a bit conspicuous....

Incidentally, it is kV, not "KV", case does matter very much in SI. "KV" is Kelvin-Volt and that does not make sense, except in very special circumstances.

Re:Attack Software

[gweihir]

No, it is not, because there is no device type for "keyboard". It can tell the other side that it is a HID (Human Interface Device) though and that class includes keyboards.

Re:Attack Software

[gweihir]

Idiots always think other people are even bigger idiots, even when there is ample evidence to the contrary. The worst are the violent and destructive idiots. This is a case in point.

Re:Attack Software

[rew]

Well if you want to be a pendant, it works better if you are correct.

So the 5V on my arduino is a measure of its ESD tolerance? Bullshit!

In datasheets, they specify ESD tolerance as a voltage: A standardized capacitor (with a specified capacity, ESR and possibly ESL) is charged to the indicated voltage and the device is supposed to tolerate the discharge.

But voltage in itself has nothing to do with ESD.

Re:Attack Software

[AmiMoJo]

Years ago I remember reading ab anti-forensics where they talked about carefully modifying the FAT on your HDD so that it would work normally with Windows (probably XP) but when scanned with a popular forensics package would make it crash. No permanent harm done, the trained monkey operator just assumes (correctly) that the forensics software is buggy and the barrier to invading your privacy is raised.

Re:Attack Software

[currently_awake]

Maximum battery power output is limited by internal resistance.

Re:Attack Software

[oic0]

Just warn them. Problem solved. If they still choose to plug it in, thats their problem.

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me introduce you to my friend, Mr. Capacitor.

Re:Attack Software

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, while dreaming about some of these things may make for an amusing 10 minutes, publicly suggesting them, with your name attached to them, could be considered conspiracy in the wrong jurisdiction by the wrong law enforcement officer. If you really want to talk about it publicly, write it up as an article about the risks of government scanning private cellphones and get it published in an ezine or well-known blog.

Re:Attack Software

[slashrio]

Maybe the solitary, beating or 20 years should be reason for concern here instead of the suggestion to damage a simple piece of equipment.
It's flabbergasting that some many people here reply in the spirit of "It will cost you beating/solitary/20yrs/whatever unreasonably harsh treatment." without even asking themselves for a second whether that isn't already a sign that they're living under fascist rule...

Re:Attack Software

[pubwvj]

The word power is used colloquially, as I was doing there, to mean the electric power coming out of the wall. I'm fully aware of watts. Relax.

That's why I bring my gun with me

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh you want my phone, do you? Well you'll have to defeat me in a duel!

Business opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Cloud service that lets you upload encrypted image of phone, and download the same. For $25.

Not talking about iCloud either (not cost effective).

Re:Business opportunity

[demonlapin]

Or just have an alternate login that you can use, with the real info in an encrypted backup. They're not, in general, going to look very hard.

The border agents ask a bunch of questions, most of which are completely content-irrelevant. Last time I came back into the US from Canada, the guy asked me where I lived and worked. C'mon, dude, I drove past something like ten cameras to get into this booth. If you don't have a Google Street View of my house (and, for that matter, my workplace - AFAICT I am the only person in the world with my full name, and one of two with the same first and last) in front of you on those monitors, then I want a tax refund. But that's not the point: he just wants me to answer questions to prove that I am, in fact, what I claim to be: an American citizen. Demonstrate proficiency with casual American English, have reasonable answers, have a plan that sounds reasonable (e.g., don't say that I plan to drive from the Quebec-NY border to Los Angeles in the next six hours).

Re:Business opportunity

[AHuxley]

Most of that is the new chat down ideas that get sold by private groups to the US gov. Buy their expensive chat down system and all US staff/workers can then see if a person has something to hide. Great for the groups and brands selling such technology and constant further education to the US gov.
Such questions will flow on with car rental services, helpful airline staff after a flight, taxi, local hotel staff, currency, technology shops once just in the USA.
A lot of that is now online, digital, but if still possible some chat will be attempted.
The questions are in depth and part of a public/private partnership. CCTV is also kept for many months. Did a person need to hire a car, had local friends... who are the friends?
Pay cash, a CC? Go to a hotel? Drive or get driven deep into the USA but mentioned they needed a local hotel... ?
Every driver and passenger face, their license plate gets recorded driving in and out of the area. Very few big new roads make that simple :)
All staff in related shops, providing services will try the same chat down but have been told to hide it under a friendly cover that a tourist would expect as just been part of friendly service.
It is done to random people so no group in the USA can then claim they are been selected for extra questions.
Most interesting groups, faiths, cults, spies now understand such approaches and have prepared for all such approaches and chat downs.

Re:Business opportunity

[gweihir]

Works the same with a laptop image (and that one could include the phone-image). I have started doing this a long time ago: Go over the border wit a clean, mostly empty installation, download anything else later. I don't even do it to protect my privacy, just to prevent them misinterpreting something ironic or sarcastic I may have said in an email and prevent me from having something encrypted in there that I cannot open (happens all the time from experiments).

Re:Business opportunity

[gweihir]

That may come right back at you. If you raise suspicion in any other way (easy to do by accident), you have just fucked yourself. Stupid.

YES!

[Anonymous Coward]

No. Wait. NO!

Am skeptical...

[Anonymous Coward]

Am somewhat skeptical of the implied 'trust your data in the cloud' message from these articles.

Re:Am skeptical...

[Anonymous Coward]

Cloud storage is not trustable at all, especially when the CBP would want your social media passwords and email passwords, thus having unfettered access to everything.

Re:Am skeptical...

[Grishnakh]

WTF? You don't tell the CBP which cloud service you're storing your encrypted phone image at.

As for email passwords, that's simple too: don't tell them! When they demand your email password, it's easy: "Ok sir, my email address is grishnakh@yahoo.com, and my password is abcxyz1234". (Make sure to set up the Yahoo email address beforehand and memorize the password correctly, and subscribe to some stupid advertising mailing lists or something.) No need to tell them that your *real* email address is with GMail.

Re:Am skeptical...

[slashrio]

How about collectively and massively fighting for your rights?

Re:Am skeptical...

[Grishnakh]

You can do that. It's called "elections". We just did that, in fact, and we voted for Trump and a bunch of Republicans.

If you want to fight against the will of the people, go right ahead. Good luck with that.

Don't travel through the US

[Anonymous Coward]

I travel a lot. And whenever i can avoid it, i avoid the US. I have lived in Europe and Australasia and travelled a lot between the two and never had any issues, except when traveling through the US.

Re:Don't travel through the US

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the correct answer.

I'm looking to travel from Australasia to Canada this year and basically have two options - via LA or via Guangzhou. I'm picking China Southern because I have zero interest in trying to pass through the US, even for a couple of hours the transfer would take.

I've travelled widely and have managed to avoid the US entirely. Which in some ways is a damn shame since there are some very scenic parts of the US I'd like to see, but I just can't muster up the enthusiasm to deal with the bullshit to get there.

Re:Don't travel through the US

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fuck is Australasia? Is that Malaysia? Is it Oceania? Is it some stupid island between them? Probably Kiwis.

Re: Don't travel through the US

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess. You're an American.

Re:Don't travel through the US

[Anonymous Coward]

Having flown from Hong Kong to the US, you should pay close attention as you're almost certainly going to be flying over Alaska on that route. I'd be shocked if the Guangzhou option is any different. That is unless you choose to fly back across Europe to eastern Canada.

Re:Don't travel through the US

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless the American authorities use drones to intercept the flight, flying over Alaska is fine. Transiting through some god forsaken American airport in Alaska wouldn't be fine.

Re: Don't travel through the US

[slashrio]

Hilarious! This should be modded up. :)

Rights are inherent, endowed by our Creator

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm actually an atheist, but the Constitution was written on the foundation that ALL people have these INHERENT rights. Just because you don't have legal jurisdiction across the border doesn't mean those rights cease to exist.

The U.S. should set an example and respect individual rights wherever and whenever possible.

Re:Rights are inherent, endowed by our Creator

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, that's the declaration of independence. Turns out that constitutional originalists care about the context of the constitution except when the don't.

Re:Rights are inherent, endowed by our Creator

[HiThere]

That's not the constitution, but the exception for the border isn't the constitution either. I could see an argument in favor of it if they left it up to the states, but when they make it federal they blow it. And the constitution certainly never said that anything within 200 miles of the border, or other access point (international airport, e.g.) was a part of the border, but that's what the feds have been claiming for decades. Without any right to do so, but with the power to make it pretty much stick.

Re:Rights are inherent, endowed by our Creator

[Anonymous Coward]

> Nah, that's the declaration of independence.

True. So they were essentially saying "these are the principles we're willing to go to war over and die for, but now that we're making a government, never mind. Forget what we said."

My company doesn't allow us to...

[Anonymous Coward]

go to Canada with our phones or laptops since those Canadians are so hateful and racist. In 2007, they broke my nose with my iBook and stomped my Palm Treo onto oieces since they are so full of hate. Canada is a shit country that hates all of humanity. They hate so much.

Re: My company doesn't allow us to...

[Anonymous Coward]

I know when a Canadian border patrol agent stomped on my mother's face until she died because she couldn't remember her iPhone passcode under duress that Canada is a place of hate. Is a place of hate.

Re: My company doesn't allow us to...

[Anonymous Coward]

My step-mom died when we tried to go into Canada. They kicked her face so hard that her neck snapped. Canada is the most racist country on the planet. They killed her for being white.

Re: My company doesn't allow us to...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a fair judgement since Canada is the most hateful country in the history of mankind. They hate whites and want us to die. That is why they beat my brother to death when he tried to enter to see the US vs Norway hockey game on the 2010 Olympics. They hate us white people so much.

Re:My company doesn't allow us to...

[Anonymous Coward]

Same at my company. We're in Seattle and have six locations in the Vancouver area. We allow employees from Seattle to take laptops to Canada, but we instruct our Canadian employees to not try to fool the hateful Canadian border Nazies by trying to sneak electronics past them. They are so hateful especially to whites. Canadian government employees only seem to respect people that dishonestly cheat at their national welfare system. Americans hate cheaters, but we seem to be the only country that hates thieves.

Re: My company doesn't allow us to...

[Anonymous Coward]

This. Canada is terrible.

Re: My company doesn't allow us to...

[Anonymous Coward]

We're based out of Seattle and have had Canada keep/steal too many laptops and phones.

Re: My company doesn't allow us to...

[Anonymous Coward]

They did you a favor. I had a Treo in 2007, and I wish someone would have stomped on it.

Re: My company doesn't allow us to...

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada is full of hate.

Re: My company doesn't allow us to...

[CrashNBrn]

Sorry.

Re:My company doesn't allow us to...

[Anonymous Coward]

"2007... my iBook and stomped my Palm Treo"

You had everything except for the blackberry at the time? You cleanly deserve it. /s

IIRC, you don't have to give them the password

[John Jorsett]

If I recall correctly, you're obligated to let them search your phone (i.e. had it over), but you can't be compelled to give them the password. I guess they could delay you while they try to browbeat it out of you, and they presumably could confiscate the phone itself because they can't see what's on it, so it might be a high-cost stance to take.

Re:IIRC, you don't have to give them the password

[HiThere]

That's what the law says.

Now, do you want to bet the guy trying to search your phone knows, or admits knowing, the law?

Re:IIRC, you don't have to give them the password

[Imrik]

You can't be compelled to give your password, you can however be denied permission to travel if you withhold it.

Re: IIRC, you don't have to give them the password

[Anonymous Coward]

As a US citizen what are they going to do,send you back to the country you came from without a visa?

Re:IIRC, you don't have to give them the password

[AHuxley]

Thats nice if a person is a citizen. If your not a citizen, a person will not get to hide things, i.e. a person is lying and will be removed.
Most nation have seen all that legal effort by citizens. Most nations ensure everything can be searched, questions asked. Images can be looked at, recovered. Bags searched, devices accessed.
Any expected questioned asked to anyone entering that are blocked, refused is lying. No protection is granted to lie.
If a person is not a citizen, they don't get cover to lie. If they are a citizen the questions and investigations have just started.

Re: IIRC, you don't have to give them the password

[AHuxley]

As a US citizen a person would face the normal courts and legal protections after discovery of digital material, items that are illegal in the USA.
Returning to the USA a person cannot start lying, or block that discovery.
Congress and courts in the US are very clear on what can be asked, searched for and how a person is then moved into the court system.
i.e. a person does not get to enter the USA with anything illegal just by having a US passport and demanding a court needs to approve a bag search.
The bag is searched, every image on a digital camera is looked at, any images get recovered.
On discovery its US lawyer time and then time to face a US court. All rights are respected and apply.

Re:IIRC, you don't have to give them the password

[Anonymous Coward]

This is true inside the USA. It is incorrect at the border. US Customs CAN compel you to surrender passwords as a condition of entry. The 4th Amendment protections do not apply at reentry. You can read the article or any of the several pamphlets that US Customs has published in the last two years for information about this.

Well,

[Black Dragon]

reacting to these egregious violations of privacy by leaving your smartphone at home, or simply not having one, seems somehow inadequate. The fascists will simply keep pushing and pushing, gradually closing the net around you as they have ever since the passage of the (un)PATRIOT Act. In an actual free and open society, stealing, er excuse me "confiscating" someone's property and then demanding the victim give up their password would be illegal, and the very idea that the 4th Amendment to the United States Constitution shouldn't apply just because you are near the national border would be laughable. But we're not a free country, are we? No, not for a long time now.

Re:Well,

[Anonymous Coward]

The 4th Amendment has NEVER applied at the border in the history of the USA. Supreme Court has weighed in on this repeatedly. It would take a new amendment to the Constitution to change that. When entering the country, ALL searches are considered warranted. The only thing US Customs cannot search is a diplomatic pouch for foreign ambassadors.

Re:Well,

[Anonymous Coward]

Great post. We as society should and must resist these invasions of privacy.

However, if you have a smart phone with your email, personal files, shopping apps, and social media accounts on it then your private data is collected and sold anyway. You can have a phone that is running Replicant or some other free operating system with free software device drivers, using a VPN for all of its network connections, using GPG-encrypted email on a server not hosted by a public company to other people with the same kind of email, and using no social networks or free software social networks hosted on private servers. In that case, forfeiture of your phone to a government representative is a massive privacy violation. But for most people running Android or iOS, 99% of the information on their phone is already available to the US government from their wireless carrier, their social networks, and their email provider.

For myself, I've chosen an admittedly poor middle route. I use my Android phone for navigation (which, unfortunately, unavoidably provides location data to my wireless carrier), the camera, calls, and texts. I set up a throwaway email account on it and none of my social networks. Once or twice a month I transfer all photos to my computers at home. So if the phone is stolen or seized at any point, the attacker gets my contact list and location data but none of my private correspondence.

Re:Well,

[Anonymous Coward]

reacting to these egregious violations of privacy by leaving your smartphone at home, or simply not having one, seems somehow inadequate.

Yeah, if you have to leave your electronic devices at home, then the TSAerrorists have already won.

Need more layers of encryption

[Anonymous Coward]

You must give border agents a key that will unlock your phone, but what if your phone had multiple levels of unlock? One key unlocks it to show a minimal contact list, texts and phone call histories of only select contacts and web history of only whitelisted sites. Sign in with a different key and suddenly your full history is available. If the filesystem is encrypted who is to know you haven't done a full unlock for the border goons.

Re:Need more layers of encryption

[Anonymous Coward]

a special password should just, as you say, show a "different" phone, while silently wiping the rest.

Re:Need more layers of encryption

[AHuxley]

AC the US gov has the funds to buy software to detect any use of encryption.
Once found? Decrypt or lie?
If your not a US citizen the options are clear.
If you are a US citizen, expect parallel construction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... if no questions got asked.

Re:Need more layers of encryption

[gweihir]

That utterly stupid idea always comes up in these discussions. IT DOES NOT WORK. Either they are not really looking, in that case you do not need this, or they are really looking in which case they will find that mechanism and you will be fucked. This is not a problem technology can solve.

No Different From Laptops

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

This is no different from the drill for laptops. On your travel day, back up your phone, encrypt the backup, send through your by vpn to a server stateside, reset the phone to factory defaults. Download the backup when safely stateside.

Re:No Different From Laptops

[nine-times]

Good thing terrorists will never think to do that.

Re:No Different From Laptops

[jopsen]

Good thing terrorists will never think to do that.

Yes, and it's great that all law abiding citizens do follow the lengthy procedures outlined by GP.

IMO, if you don't uphold civil rights where every you go, whether it's the border to Canada or a cave in Afghanistan then you probably don't care about civil rights to being this. The US has consistently proven that civil rights aren't important.

Re:No Different From Laptops

[Anonymous Coward]

Terrorists don't do that. They enter the US and then they receive their orders via the internet.

The harassment is primarily to keep Americans scared and to keep the ignorant folks thinking the government is keeping them safe.

Re:No Different From Laptops

[BitterOak]

This is no different from the drill for laptops. On your travel day, back up your phone, encrypt the backup, send through your by vpn to a server stateside, reset the phone to factory defaults. Download the backup when safely stateside.

As soon as the customs officer sees your phone is set to factory defaults, he's going to want you to log into your accounts. That's no different from providing the password for your device.

Re:No Different From Laptops

[Gussington]

As soon as the customs officer sees your phone is set to factory defaults, he's going to want you to log into your accounts. That's no different from providing the password for your device.

What accounts?
I have about 10 different accounts already that I use for different purposes, configuring a reset phone with one that has no useful info in it is straight forward.

Re:No Different From Laptops

[Anonymous Coward]

As soon as the customs officer sees your phone is set to factory defaults, he's going to want you to log into your accounts. That's no different from providing the password for your device.

What accounts? Prove I have a drop box or cloud storage account or a facebook account for that matter.

Re:No Different From Laptops

[Grishnakh]

Yeah, good luck with the cloud storage accounts, but with Facebook, that should be pretty easy unless you have a ridiculously common name.

Re:No Different From Laptops

[Anonymous Coward]

Or unless you're not on Facebook.

Re:No Different From Laptops

[jeti]

No proof needed. If you're not a US citizen, any border agent can send you back without providing a reason.

Re:No Different From Laptops

[nine-times]

I'm not sure we're disagreeing here. My point is that, contrary to the idea that, "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear," the people who genuinely have something to hide are likely to plan ahead and circumvent this security measure. If you're a terrorist and you know people are going to be asked to unlock your phone and computer, then you're just not going to store your terrorism plans on those devices.

The information the government is likely to gather from this is just a bunch of personal/private information from innocent people.

Re:No Different From Laptops

[slashrio]

And without any possibility of legal appeal as you just signed your waiver inside the plane while on your way.

"[I]f we do nothing to resist"

[93 Escort Wagon]

I'm not sure that leaving your phone at home counts as "resistance" - it sounds more like surrendering.

Re:"[I]f we do nothing to resist"

[dbIII]

If you want to fight them the checkpoint is the wrong place since they have all the power and will win every time. They have you by the balls figuratively and sometimes literally. You have people that are supposed to represent your views in Washington and those people control the payroll for the TSA - they are the ones you should be talking to if you want to pick a fight with the TSA.

Re:"[I]f we do nothing to resist"

[jareth-0205]

I'm not sure that leaving your phone at home counts as "resistance" - it sounds more like surrendering.

When at the border you have pretty much no power at all, and if you're not a US citizen then you definitely have no power at all. It's no use calling it "surrendering", but then offering no alternative action. What are we to do instead?

Re:"[I]f we do nothing to resist"

[currently_awake]

A logical direction of attack would be for everyone to pick the worst airport in the USA (for security hassles) and boycott it. And tell them what you are doing, and why. That airport would work to reduce the trouble to regain business, and that would start competition among the airports to improve the situation. You have no influence, but a multi-billions dollars per year industry does.

Just hide your phone

[wolfheart111]

Just hide your phone when you get to the border. When they ask, just say no, I have no phone. Could this get someone in trouble if they fact do find it.

Re:Just hide your phone

[PPH]

Could this get someone in trouble

Yes. Something along the lines of lying to a federal official.

Why not carry two phones? When they ask if you have a phone, say "Yes." When they ask to see it, hand it to them.

Don't work, don't carry

[gurps_npc]

If you are taking a trip to somewhere your phone requires roaming charges you should not take your phone with you.

Re:Don't work, don't carry

[Frosty Piss]

If you are taking a trip to somewhere your phone requires roaming charges you should not take your phone with you.

Indeed. In fact, a good thing to do is simply get to where you're going and buy a "burner phone". You can dump it if you choose, or keep it and hand it over to the Brown Shirts when you re-enter the US...

Delete apps

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are worried about them accessing email or social media info, can't you just delete the app or remove the email account from your phone and re-add after leaving customs?

This won't be popular...

[eddeye]

This won't be popular but: grow up. Nobody cares what's on your stupid phone. Border guards are mostly worried about - wait for it - protecting the border. They're not snooping people's Facebook accounts so they can post "ZOMG I eat dicks!" on there.

Nobody cares about the following items on your phone: your super-secret plans for an internet startup; your questionable pics in various states of undress (unless you're a supermodel); your ebook copy of Das Kapital; those drunks texts you sent your ex at 2am; or anything else personally sensitive / embarrassing. It's garbage. Border guards couldn't give a shit. All they want to check is that you're not posting pro-ISIS messages or smuggling drugs. That's it. Anything else is tinfoil hat delusional fantasies.

That's not to say all border guards are saints. Some may give you a hard time just because they can. But if you could show any of them took material from your phone and used it outside their job, they would be insta-fired and probably be incarcerated. No one's going to risk their career and their freedom for a few naughty pics.

If you're engaged in illegal activity, by all means refuse to unlock your phone. If you're paranoid about Teh Fedz sending black helicopters to trail you, then don't unlock your phone (also, seek mental help). Otherwise just do it and get it over with.

I'm not saying "you should unlock your phone because only criminals have something to hide". Not at all. I'm saying it's like a proctology exam. Yeah it sucks, and in an ideal world we shouldn't have to do it. But the best thing for all involved is to just man up and get it over with, then get on with your life. Not everything is worth making a federal case about.

If you're traveling to shady third-world banana republics or anywhere the standard response is "da, komrade" - then it may be worth getting a burner phone. But for western democracies, nobody gives two shits what crap you have on there.

Re:This won't be popular...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been hearing anecdotal stories of boarder guards being unleashed as political bullies and scrolling through college kids Facebook posts looking for lefty political activism evidence since the election but doubt that is very prevalent. There was the story about travelers who somehow admitted they were attending the anti-Trump rally the day after the inauguration (I'm anti Trump and anti Republican but that seemed a little early) being stopped at the Canadian border but the story seemed to go away.

The TSA, however, employ low wage thieves. I had to tell a thugged out bully in a cheap uniform that, no, I wasn't putting my cash in the scanner for him to "x ray" in Atlanta. I kept it in my hand as he barked at me until he gave up. I hold my cash and my travel documents in my hand as I pass through the xray. Usually they just look bored lately.

Re:This won't be popular...

[Anonymous Coward]

They care about drugs. A US Fish and Wildlife officer drove up on me in the middle of the Arizona desert. He asked if I had pot and I responded truthfully, legally purchased in Washington and Colorado. He searched my car and took my pot. He gave me a warning and told me to stay out of the area. US Customs and Border Patrol are everywhere that Fish and Wildlife officer aren't, and they even patrol that same piece of desert I was in. The border extends 100 miles from the border, so they can do anything they like to you. I'm a US Citizen on US soil, but within 100 miles of the border the Border Patrol can treat me like an illegal.

Re:This won't be popular...

[Anonymous Coward]

...because what you suggest is against the US constitution. If you are OK with fascism, then go ahead and give in, but expect this power grab to rapidly expand until you can't breath. Push-back is needed.
 

Re:This won't be popular...

[Minupla]

The issue is, that's not my call. I'm a professional, I travel to the US on business. In doing so, I bring data that is not mine with me. Corporate emails, credentials that could cause a CNN moment if mishandled, etc.

Those data are stored under cryptographic control, using two factor authentication. It is not mine to decide if it's acceptable to hand it over to anyone.

So now I need to take further steps to ensure I have access to the data required when I travel internationally to my corporate HQ, which increases the cost of doing business.

My company will never move their HQ out of the US, but others may decide at some point that it'll cost them less in the long run.

Min

Re:This won't be popular...

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps not popular, but true!

Re:This won't be popular...

[AHuxley]

Most security staff for any larger US brand would be aware of what other nations do to any US device that enters their nation.
Hotel staff help look for any devices in a hotel room, wireless or physical access is attempted.
Most security would suggest entering another nation with a totally clean phone ready for that nations telco services.
Any VPN use, cloud or other long term per device settings are what any nations security services are looking for.
Re entering the US and having that device scanned will show any crypto, apps.. just like any other citizen re-entering the US with a digital device.

Re:This won't be popular...

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus, get your IT department to invest in a VPN. Travel with a basic laptop. VPN into your company's network and start an RDP session to your office PC. Done. No sensitive information on your laptop. Everything is stored back on your company's network.

Re: This won't be popular...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the TSA it's Homeland security at the international border, not like an American like yourself would know anything about international travel

Re:This won't be popular...

[jenningsthecat]

Nobody cares what's on your stupid phone. Border guards are mostly worried about - wait for it - protecting the border.

Hey - if nobody cares what's on travellers' phones, why are they so hell-bent on examining the contents? As for "protecting the border", did you REALLY write that with a straight face?

I'm not saying "you should unlock your phone because only criminals have something to hide". Not at all. I'm saying it's like a proctology exam. Yeah it sucks, and in an ideal world we shouldn't have to do it.

Dude! Do you hear yourself? Tell me honestly now - if you were visiting a friend in the hospital and were forced to either have a proctology exam on the spot, or be detained for an arbitrary amount of time and thereafter face the third degree every time you tried to re-enter the hospital - wouldn't you be pissed? Comparing the two as you just did is totally ludicrous, and you should know better.

But the best thing for all involved is to just man up and get it over with, then get on with your life. Not everything is worth making a federal case about.

Really? Roll over and play dead - that's the best you've got? Sure - just suck it up, keep sucking it up, and advise others to do the same. Because that doesn't contribute AT ALL to the transition between routine violation of freedoms and rights, and full-on dictatorship. Get a clue man!

Re:This won't be popular...

[dbIII]

Democracy is a thousand sheep locking a wolf up, but those who would like to play at being a wolf argue otherwise.

Re:This won't be popular...

[Grishnakh]

.because what you suggest is against the US constitution. If you are OK with fascism

He's a typical modern American; of course he's OK with fascism.

Re:This won't be popular...

[phayes]

So, for you every "modern" American is a Fascist? Was every 1930s German one too?

Re:This won't be popular...

[Cederic]

So was your pot legal to own in Arizona or not? Whether it was legal to purchase when you bought it is totally fucking irrelevant.

Re:This won't be popular...

[eddeye]

This. This is why slashdot has gone to hell. A rational, reasoned argument that's unpopular gets modded flamebait. If you disagree, give a cogent argument instead of hiding behind fake moderation.

To those who say it's unconstitutional - you don't know wtf the constitution says or how it works. The Constitution doesn't mean whatever your 21st century addled brain reads into the words. There are 200+ years of jurisprudence defining the breadth and extent of Constitutional rights. Border searches (including phone searches) are not unconstitutional. But don't take my professional word for it (IAAL). Ask the ACLU. If it were unC, the ACLU and others would have a field day hauling the CBP into court (not that they haven't tried).

The whiny adolescent anarcho-libertarian groupthink around here is out of control. Time to raze slashdot to the ground and start over. I'm done. Peace out.

Re:This won't be popular...

[Grishnakh]

Most 1930s were indeed were. They elected Hitler after all, and happily participated in the war effort.

I never said every single modern American was a fascist, just most of them. It's easy proven: they happily vote for fascism.

Re:This won't be popular...

[phayes]

Really? Most americans voted for fascism?

Shall we count the ways you were wrong in a one line post?
1. Trump isn't a fascist. He's a rightist populist with _major_ issues but just because some people use the wrong definitions to label something/one doesn't make their use correct.
2. A majority of Americans happily voted for trump. He lost the popular vote.
3. Not everyone voted so that makes even fewer who voted for him.
4. An analysis printed shortly after the election in the NYT showed that while those who said that they knew who they were going to vote for 90 days before the election did indeed vote for that candidate (following party lines), that the election was decided by a third of the electorate who disliked both candidates and who ended up voting 75/25% Trump/Clinton. So even those who voted for him weren't voting "for fascism".
5. The dislike/hate of Clinton by even many Democrats and the desire for a break with 8 years of an Obama presidency do not equate with a love of fascism.

Get over your sour grapes, the way to fight Trump is not with slander, lying about him just feeds into his line that "the popular media cannot be trusted". It's not like the truth isn't enough - Use the Truth Luke...

The obvious response

[taustin]

And we'll see it soon, is to have a separate password that resets the phone to a factory configuration.

Or, even better yet, multi-user phones. Keep one user account vanilla clean, and let them have fun.

I predict we will see one or the other this year.

Re:The obvious response

[JazzLad]

Nokia has the patent (I'm too lazy to look up a link) on multi-user phones - that's why only Android tablets (not phones) have the feature (not saying all do, my Nexus 7 did).

I guess computers doing it for decades and phones basically being all-in-one computers wasn't enough to make this too obvious to patent ...

Re:The obvious response

[Anonymous Coward]

Or even better, someone should make an open source app that records the screen and the camera of the border guard going through it.

Re:The obvious response

[Anonymous Coward]

My Nexus 6p phone has multi-user.

Re: The obvious response

[Anonymous Coward]

Android 5 and up support multiuser. You need a stock Android or a ROM that has it enabled. HTC does not. Samsung replaced it with KNOX. Etc.

Re:The obvious response

[AHuxley]

Any encrypted material would be detected. US software used to scan devices would find any such use of encryption or altered file system.
The same with any camera card or laptop.

Re:The obvious response

[gweihir]

And I predict this will be of negative worth. The only thing it will do is piss them off when they notice.

Incidentally, "destruction of evidence" can land you in prison for a few decades. Face it, the US is a police-state by now and unless that changes, you can do nothing to protect yourself besides not carrying information you do not want exposed. That does not only apply tho border-crossing.

Re:The obvious response

[Anonymous Coward]

My old Nexus 4 has the ability to serve multiple accounts. It runs the last version of stock Android produced for it.

My Nexus 5x does the same thing. Multiple users allowed in the stock OS.

Security

[fluffernutter]

I don't understand why people put secure things on their phone. Use a laptop instead and leave that at home, then there's no problem. You can even access it remotely if you want.

Re:Security

[EvilSS]

I don't understand why people put secure things on their phone. Use a laptop instead and leave that at home, then there's no problem. You can even access it remotely if you want.

It's not just "secure things". Your contacts list and call history can tell heaps about you all by itself. Social media accounts (I know, no one here has them but lots of people in the real world do), photographs (which are conveniently geo-tagged), hell even your taste in music (have a stray ICP track in your music collection? Woops, you're a gang member and can be treated as such!) .

Smart phones have a high concentration of information about us that, individually may seem innocuous but when looked at on the whole can tell volumes.

Re:Security

[dbIII]

Smart phones have a high concentration of information about us that, individually may seem innocuous but when looked at on the whole can tell volumes.

One odd example of that was after I read a H.P. Lovecraft story on my phone's ereader application ("The Shunned House" https://www.gutenberg.org/eboo... ) the text message autocomplete had become seeded with the words H.P. Lovecraft used.

Re:Security

[techno-vampire]

Better yet, if you really need to take your laptop, put anything sensitive on a flash drive and pack it in your checked luggage.

Re:Security

[fluffernutter]

Facebook themselves are going to do far more with the information than border officials will. At the border they're looking for criminals. So if you are involved with criminals, I suggest you stop doing whatever you are doing so you can bring your phone across the border.

Re:Security

[Anonymous Coward]

They deliver your luggage to you before you go through customs.

constitutional protections don't apply

[Dare nMc]

> You have very few rights there

This does apply to them searching your phone, you have no choice. But it doesn't really apply to US citizens on giving up your password, if you have some time to spare that is. They cannot deny a citizen entry without cause, they can deny them their possessions or hold them for a "reasonable time." So eventually they have to allow citizens out of the constitution free zone, and into the US. Although they may be able to force you to give a fingerprint.

Of course this only applies to US citizens and US customs. Other countries are under no such consideration. But I am not sure many have any protections from search anywhere.

Re:constitutional protections don't apply

[Mitreya]

They cannot deny a citizen entry without cause, they can deny them their possessions or hold them for a "reasonable time."

Unfortunately, few people can afford to test these rules -- as having your possessions and not "being held for a reasonable time" may be integral to keeping your job.

Re:constitutional protections don't apply

[Anonymous Coward]

you are a fucking sickass government apologist.
read the goddamned constitution you dumbfuck.
NOWHERE does it say you are not entitled to fourth and fith protections whether you're getting on/off a fucking plane or anywhere else in the shitty us of a.
it applies EVERYWHERE to all us citizens no matter what.
but because of asshole fucking apologists and slippery slope govt boot lickers like you,
YOUR rights are being fucked.
DUMBASS.

Re:constitutional protections don't apply

[Anonymous Coward]

US TSA agents are much like the customs officials in the rest of the world, they know exactly their limits and how much they can push them

With anything they can claim is reasonable suspicion they can keep a US citizen for quite a time, demand passwords, perform body searches, and with a lawyer keep you for an extended period, and even deny you entry to the USA ...

The constitution will not protect you

Re:constitutional protections don't apply

[Anonymous Coward]

out of the constitution free zone, and into the US.

Isn't the US just another constitution-free zone?

Re:constitutional protections don't apply

[wvmarle]

They cannot deny a citizen entry without cause

Not allowing the content of your phone (and/or other digital devices) to be searched will be defined as cause for refusing entry, if it hasn't been done so already.

Re:constitutional protections don't apply

[Dare nMc]

FYI, when ACLU called this a constitution free zone, it was fully tongue in cheek. As I understand it as more of a reasonable grounds to extra search vs a citizens right to be secure in their possessions trade off. Those in the country not being infringed with a insecure border, over the rights of those traveling to not be bothered. They have already pushed the bounds further by having a $2k fine for not fully cooperating with TSA; likely claiming it is a civil action not covered by right to council... But laws like you describe would still violate the Constitution, at least as of the rulings before today.

Alternate Account

[sl149q]

Just have a second (if iPhone) iCloud account set up with reasonable amount of apps and mail (subscribe to some mailing lists.)

Before travelling, backup, then restore your alternate clean identity.

After travelling, restore the correct one.

New?

[EvilSS]

So we traded black Jesus for orange dingus and suddenly everyone is upset about something that has been happening for years that many of us have been trying to raise awareness of? Well if that's what it takes then at least something good may come of it, but pretending this is a Trump thing is, well, make believe. Stories of travelers, including US citizens, having phones and laptops searched, even demands for social media accounts, upon entry have been coming out for over a decade now. Glad the mainstream media may finally be catching the fuck on.

Re:New?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well to be fair orange dingus as you call him (emperor Trumpatine - because he used a phantom menace to get elected - as other people call him) is really quite the narcissistic, sociopathic, demagogue, racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, troll. Since he called that federal judge who upheld the constitution a "So called judge" it has made it open season on #SoCalledPresident.

Re:New?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, despite all of the hand-wringing by the right about Obama's gross expansions of executive authority into the lives of Americans (now playing: Hannity's "Don't touch my junk"), they certainly didn't do anything about it when they got control of the legislature.

They wanted Obama to take the brunt of the unpopularity of those decisions while using the power later for themselves.

Re:New?

[EvilSS]

Well to be fair orange dingus as you call him (emperor Trumpatine - because he used a phantom menace to get elected - as other people call him) is really quite the narcissistic, sociopathic, demagogue, racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, troll. Since he called that federal judge who upheld the constitution a "So called judge" it has made it open season on #SoCalledPresident.

While all that may be true, unless he's also a timelord (please god tell me he isn't!) this isn't something we can lay completely at his feet.

Re:New?

[reboot246]

If we want to be totally honest, most judges are really politicians and deserve to be called "so-called judges".

You take two hated professions (lawyer and politician), and combine them in a new profession (judge) and you expect the outcome to be good? That's hilarious!

Re:New?

[dbIII]

but pretending this is a Trump thing

I'm pretty sure everyone knows it's a TSA thing.

Use a second account

[Threni]

Just create another Android account (for example) with plausible looking contacts, a second facebook account etc, then when they ask to see it just hand it over. Go back to the real one once you're in

Surveillance is mandatory

[Anonymous Coward]

... "You can't hand over a device that you don't have."

"If you've done nothing wrong then you've got nothing to hide." This is is quickly twisted into, if you're not carrying a phone then you must be hiding something: Tourists in the USA have already been stripped searched over this. It's like East Germany of old; surveillance is mandatory. Taking a wiped/unused phone is the better answer, not admitting that one objects to US surveillance. Then one can say some pervert (reading personal messages on Facebook or Twitter) put a virus on the phone requiring it to be wiped.

US police have confiscated phones outside the customs zone, both for surveillance and legalized robbery, so never put anything valuable on a phone.

Reset Chromebook and Phone

[mspohr]

I've been thinking about this since the recent article where a NASA JPL US citizen employee was detained and forced to give up his password.
I have a Chromebook. It's easy to wipe it completely to fresh out of the box factory settings. At the border, you can give them a completely blank computer. (or set up a dummy Chromebook account with nothing on it). Then when you are back safely in the US, just enter your credentials and it will download everything from the cloud and you're back in business.
Phones are a little more difficult. You can factory reset these but your SIM card still has data. You'd need to install a decoy SIM card in it (preferably a burner SIM from some odd place where it won't work in the US). You'll have to deal with your own SIM card by hiding it or mailing it to yourself. Once you reinstall your original SIM and login, the phone apps, etc. will restore themselves.
Either that or just buy a burner phone and ditch it before you return.

Re:Reset Chromebook and Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been thinking about this since the recent article where a NASA JPL US citizen employee was detained and forced to give up his password.
I have a Chromebook. It's easy to wipe it completely to fresh out of the box factory settings. At the border, you can give them a completely blank computer. (or set up a dummy Chromebook account with nothing on it). Then when you are back safely in the US, just enter your credentials and it will download everything from the cloud and you're back in business.

Yes indeed. If your concerned about privacy and warrantless fishing expeditions at the border - what you should do is buy a computer created by an advertising company and stores all of your shit on said advertising companies servers well within reach of warrantless third party doctrine enabled government fishing expeditions.

Besides I'm sure nobody would be able to correlate device id of your chromebook with your account and warrantlessly download everything from "the cloud" at their pleasure.

Phones are a little more difficult. You can factory reset these but your SIM card still has data. You'd need to install a decoy SIM card in it (preferably a burner SIM from some odd place where it won't work in the US). You'll have to deal with your own SIM card by hiding it or mailing it to yourself. Once you reinstall your original SIM and login, the phone apps, etc. will restore themselves.
Either that or just buy a burner phone and ditch it before you return.

Nothing is stored on SIM anymore.. at least not by default.

Re:Reset Chromebook and Phone

[somenickname]

You'll have to deal with your own SIM card by hiding it or mailing it to yourself.

We are living in strange times when, "Just eat it and rifle through your poop when you land" is reasonable sounding advice for traveling to The Land of the Free.

Re:Reset Chromebook and Phone

[Anonymous Coward]

At Customs, you aren't in the Land of the Free yet. ;-)

Re:Reset Chromebook and Phone

[tww-china]

A somewhat similar solution is to virtualize your laptop/phone. The kernel you boot with on either is nothing but a placeholder to run the virtualization software. Create an encrypted image on local storage that you can upload to a cloud provider and, on it, install all of your apps and operate the phone as usual. Securely wipe the encrypted image before leaving the country and download again after arriving in the host country. Our phones are now powerful enough to do this. Technology for Android has already been developed to do this: http://systems.cs.columbia.edu....

Correction

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not about travelling internationally, this is about entering the USA.

The US is becoming a risk for travellers, and more and more people I know now travel to the EU via Singapore, Hong Kong, Dubai, etc to avoid the US.

Conferences in the EU are preferred over US based ones.
Training courses in the EU are given higher priority than US based ones.

I have been to the US for work and for holidays over a dozen times, last trip we seen over $20,000 on transportation, accommodation, food, entertainment, gifts, etc etc etc. As a family we have chosen to remove the US from future travel plans and to the Europe, Asia, South America instead. We are voting with our wallets.

We are also considering what increased risks there is in buying US manufactured equipment, how long will it be before US IT equipment is no more trustworthy than Chinese IT gear ? (all my stuff at home is now German).

So, tell me, what happens with this US first policy when the 96% of the worlds population who are NOT US citizens choose US last, what happens to that $2 Trillion in exports ? As a guess, US companies will chose to spit into USA based and internationally based operations to try and avoid a backlash, so it may be MORE jobs leave the US than come back.

Re:Correction

[Ol Olsoc]

This is not about travelling internationally, this is about entering the USA.

The US is becoming a risk for travellers, and more and more people I know now travel to the EU via Singapore, Hong Kong, Dubai, etc to avoid the US.

Cool story bro. Are you believing that we are so naive that no other nation but the US searches through stuff? ANd that you are voting with your wallet and going to other countries because it's the US and only the US that would ever do this?

Really cool story bro!

If you don't want your stuff searched, don't go to any other country.

Re:Correction

[Anonymous Coward]

You make the EU sound like utopia. However, the UK recently voted to leave and rumblings from the Netherlands and France indicate they may be following suit. Wealthy European countries such as Norway and Switzerland refused to surrender their independence to a hippy dippy committee in Brussels from its inception. The EU was a noble idea and, from an American's perspective, it's better since it provides greater stability to the region. But, the people are too different, the goals are too different, and the economies are too different. If the Dutch or the French go, your EU is over.

Re:Correction

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been to UK and Europe a number of times, and to Hong Kong and Australia all without problems.

So, yes, this is currently a US problem.

Re:Correction

[Anonymous Coward]

US has the best security theater by far. Border agents in US appear more aggressive than anywhere in EU. It is anecdotal evidence of course. No statistics to back it up. Maybe US border agents are pressured to show how strict they are?

Re:Correction

[Anonymous Coward]

What IT equipment is made in the USA? I think maybe some high end IBM mainframes...

Re:Correction

[Cederic]

Fortunately he'll still be able to travel to Europe and still have a wide choice of entry points that don't require him to tell the US government everything about his life.

Stay away.

[Anonymous Coward]

The best answer is always ECONOMIC. Stay away from the USA and travel elsewhere. If they notice a huge decline in tourism and the associated revenue they will be forced to rethink TRUMP and his policies.

Re:Stay away.

[Gussington]

The best answer is always ECONOMIC. Stay away from the USA and travel elsewhere. If they notice a huge decline in tourism and the associated revenue they will be forced to rethink TRUMP and his policies.

Already doing this. We planned a trip there a couple of years ago but decided the authoritarian entry requirements were not something I can support with a conscience. So we went to Europe and spent our money there instead. I have friends planning a trip to the US later this year and invited us but declined for the same reasons. We're going to Indonesia instead, where despite having an autocratic pro-Muslim government, it is still more open than the US.
Worth noting this isn't a Trump thing. It started with Bush, and was continued by Obama and now Trump too.

Re:Stay away.

[Spaham]

yep !

I even used to live there as a student.
I'm not planning to come back any time soon now.
Why bother with all the hassle ?

Re:Stay away.

[whoever57]

The best answer is always ECONOMIC.

That assumes rational thinking in the administration.

Re:Stay away.

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly.
I've been travelling in the USA for decades and have travelled all over the western part in the last three years. I was planning on shipping my Harley to Charleston and going coast to coast and back again this summer.
Canned that totally. Going to NZ next November instead.
That is a lot of $$$ not going in the rural economies all over the USA.
A lot of people I know aren't going to Florida with their kids this year. Some even have timeshares in Orlando.
The USA is becoming 'Trumpton' at a great rate of knots.
You new 'Great Dictator' will take your fine contry and people back decades.
If you think that people in the rest of the world hate the USA now then frankly guys, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Re:Stay away.

[qaz123]

What does Trump have to do with this?

Re:Stay away.

[argStyopa]

As an American, I can say honestly: we're perfectly fine that you go somewhere else.

Re:Stay away.

[Anonymous Coward]

And I guess the American tourism industry is just about reeling.

Re:Stay away.

[Anonymous Coward]

you won't be as you start to lose jobs and have skyrocketing unemployment. The US tourism is a trillion dollar a year industry.

Re:Stay away.

[Gussington]

As an American, I can say honestly: we're perfectly fine that you go somewhere else.

Sweet, less money for you. But I bet that won't stop you complaining like a bitch when you can't figure out why your economy ends up in the toilet...

Re:Stay away.

[slashrio]

Right, who cares about a $2trillion loss if you are already $16trillion in debt?

Re:Stay away.

[argStyopa]

"Skyrocketing" ha ha that's funny.

Most American tourism is domestic. (nearly 97%)

Your failure to show up won't matter to anyone.

Re:Stay away.

[argStyopa]

97% of US tourism is DOMESTIC. (http://www.eturbonews.com/53328/research-domestic-tourism-significantly-dominates-us-tourism-mar)

Fairly few people give the faintest shit that you come and visit, or don't.

The US economy doesn't quiver the slightest without your euros, rand, pesos, or whatever.

Re:Stay away.

[z0idberg]

Excellent use of using a percentage to reach a bad conclusion.
3% is a small percentage, but that doesn't make international tourism, insignificant to the USA economy.

"While the majority of activity in the industry is domestic, expenditures by international visitors in the United States totaled $246.2 billion in 2015, yielding a $97.9 billion trade surplus for the year."
https://www.selectusa.gov/trav...

Taking a $100 billion dollar chunk out of your trade surplus so that CPB can trawl through peoples personal emails, texts and photos while "real" terrorist and criminals take trivial steps to bypass getting caught by these methods seems like a really stupid choice.

Re:Stay away.

[Gussington]

The US economy doesn't quiver the slightest without your euros, rand, pesos, or whatever.

Renminbi? You might want to Google it.
Protectionism doesn't work. We know that. If you want to live in your little bubble and believe the Emperor does in fact have a fine new coat, then fill your boots.

Re:Stay away.

[argStyopa]

I googled "Renminbi", all I got was links to currency fixing.

No, I can't say we'd miss monopoly money that someone else pretends is currency.

Re:Stay away.

[Gussington]

I googled "Renminbi", all I got was links to currency fixing.

No, I can't say we'd miss monopoly money that someone else pretends is currency.

Who is this we you keep going on about? Have you forgotten to take your meds?
'You' might think such thoughts, buy that says more about 'you' than the people who know how the international economies work.

Anything

[Ol Olsoc]

It is good security practice to get burner phones, new drives in laptops, and leave the tablet at home. Don't leave the country without doing it.

This has been true for years, is nothing new, and surprised that people don't know that.

Re:Anything

[gweihir]

People are stupid and kidding themselves about how bad things have gotten. US citizens more so than others.

Re:Anything

[Anonymous Coward]

It is good security practice to get burner phones, new drives in laptops, and leave the tablet at home. Don't leave the country without doing it.

This has been true for years, is nothing new, and surprised that people don't know that.

For traveling in autoritarian countries with a dim view towards individual and civil rights, sure. The new thing is that the worst danger of that kind is now while you are still (or again) on U.S. soil.

Re:Anything

[Ol Olsoc]

People are stupid and kidding themselves about how bad things have gotten. US citizens more so than others.

I'm of mixed feelings on the matter. Unless a person is carrying data that isn't authorized to be seen by others, most of the items of interest are internet based or text/phone based. None of which are remotely secure. So while I am not pleased by the unpleasantness performed by all countries, If I were actually going to engage in illegal activities, No evidence of either would be found on my laptop or phone. I'd prefer it all to be secure, but it's a glass house, these devices.

Hell, out of the many computers I have, only one of them is even used to buy anything online. Otherwise, it isn't safe, and won't be safe, anywhere. I'm at a hotel right now,and on a computer with nothing on it other than browser email, because I assume it is being looked at as I type. While others send dick pix, kiddie porn, threaten people and arrange illegal activities, then wonder what happened when they are caught.

Re:Anything

[gweihir]

Maybe if you consider that they are not only looking for "criminal activity", but also for any expression "critical of the US" (or what they think is), things look different? On may even argue that they are primarily looking for the second...

Re:Anything

[slashrio]

I think it's better practice to beat your government on the head until they respect your basic rights again.

Location locks

[blackpaw]

I'm thinking of locking systems that block access when at the border and can only be unlocked when in a civilised country or the USA :) (sorry, couldn't resist)

Not sure if GPS is accurate enough for that though

Re: Location locks

[Anonymous Coward]

GPS is accurate to 6 inches on most phones

Re: Location locks

[WaffleMonster]

GPS is accurate to 6 inches on most phones

No it isn't.

Re:Location locks

[Baron_Yam]

It's not that difficult to feed fake GPS data to the antenna of your phone while shielding out any legitimate satellite signals.

If a GPS lock were standard, you could probably expect customs to have their exam room to be set up to mimic any location on Earth about six months after the standard came into effect.

Re: Location locks

[slashrio]

If only the signal were...

Re:Location locks

[wvmarle]

Set your lockout zone to 1 km around the airport (or may be even a 5 km radius around airports or other ports of entry) and GPS is more than accurate enough. Typical error of GPS on a phone is a few meters. However GPS only works outdoors (most of the time not inside buildings) so you'd have to add something like "lock based on last known location" or a "lockout button" where the device locks until it has a clear GPS signal confirming it's a safe place to unlock.

bring clean device, data in cloud/own server

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not hard to put your sensitive stuff on a server, delete the apps to access it and/or the accounts to access and carry a clean laptop and phone over a border. Then reinstall apps and add accounts again. Very easy to do. My contacts are synced with webdav. As soon as i delete the account my contacts are gone.

E.T. did this...

[Anonymous Coward]

and it worked out fine.

Yes. I've done essentially that.

[raymorris]

Yep, the USB device (aka gadget) tells the USB host (computer) what kind of device it is. Newer phones equipped with USB OTG have the hardware to work as either end of the connection.

Some chips used in common USB memory sticks can be programmed to act as a keyboard, sending keypresses to the computer when someone plugs in the "flash drive". I built one of those myself, using a usb flash drive with my company's logo on it. If I were to leave that drive laying around the office, one of my co-workers would probably think that because it's one of a batch of drives the company ordered with the company logo on it, it's safe to plug in. They wouldn't know I altered it to work as a keyboard. Currently it's set to press the appropriate keys to rickroll someone, opening a browser to YouTube playing Rick Astley.

Re:Yes. I've done essentially that.

[Anonymous Coward]

Good luck figuring out my keyboard layout, location of a browser executable on my system, and suchlike.

I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it's not nearly as trivial as you make it out to be, either.

Fuck You Americans!

[Anonymous Coward]

All you do is sit on your goddamn fat motherfucking asses all day.
Meanwhile you are all getting royally fucked over by your military police, executive branches, legislators, and your courts.
Day in and day out they wage total war against you.
Rob you of your rights, beat you down, spying, surveill, datamine, facial, tax, control, and fuck you.
And all you do is sit on your fuckin arses.
YOU, YOU Americans are now the leading reason for SHIT IN THE WORLD, exporting your worthless theories, and murdering innocents.
WAKE THE FUCK UP.
RISE THE FUCK UP.
And take back your shit from your pussy ass government.

Dumb ass question.

[westlake]

So what happens when travelers start carrying attack hardware & software that bites back?

The border guard bites back harder. So unless you are fond of cavity searches and border town lockups, I suggest you reconsider your options.

Re:Dumb ass question.

[currently_awake]

How about downloading everything from the search device and uploading to the cloud? Should be interesting reading.

Re:Dumb ass question.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, attempting anything like what the GP states, is just asking for trouble. Trouble like they proceed with the mandatory gastrointestinal scraping with the wire brush on a 100 foot snake, repeated in triplicate "just to make sure" you aren't a drug mule. Or at least that will be the cover story. And note that the GI scraping will be started from the ass end and finished at the mouth end, not the other way around.

It's a fun fantasy but you'd better be damn clear that it's a fantasy only, never, NEVER to be attempted.

Canada is no better in this respect

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada's customs agents also take away phones and read data off of them.

Operation Quicksilver needed.

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Operation Quicksilver was a WW-2 operation by Allied Army stationed in UK. They created a fake army with inflatable tanks, and cardboard barracks and painted log canons. But the deception unit also sent thousands of fake radio traffic, drove a few trucks endlessly around to create fresh tracks every night etc etc.

We should kickstart some crowd funding to create a mod for android that recognizes a Quicksilver password. Once the quicksilver password is entered, the phone would unlock, but log in you with a pre selected account or mode. Everything there would be very innocuous, but enough stuff to make it appear normal. We might get some crowd sourced "safe browsing history" updated daily and very innocuous email traffic and very bland but seemingly very normal WhatsApp and SMS traffic with very recent date stamps. Some AI generated Mad-Libs like combinatorial content generator.

There should be a very special Slowsilver password that would turn off Quicksilver return the phone to normal mode.

Re:Operation Quicksilver needed.

[AHuxley]

How low level could that be? Does the telco or device OS hardware or software log an account has been swapped?
The US gov could just then have software to look into a device log for that setting and see it was changed mins or a hour ago.
The first and only lie needed would be about that phone.

Re:Operation Quicksilver needed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just what are you trying to hide?

Your child porn or your plans to blow up a major building in the USA?

Use cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

Wipe phone

Re-use cloud

Done

The border exception is a usurpation.

[jcr]

The US Constitution is the entirety of the legal basis for the very existence of the American federal government. Is it binding upon all American government officials, agents, and employees at all times and all places. There is no provision in the constitution for the suspension of the bill of rights at the border, and the fact that our rights are routinely violated when entering the country is because our courts are derelict in their duty to enforce the constitution.

-jcr

Re:The border exception is a usurpation.

[Anonymous Coward]

It is because YOU are derelict in your duty as free citizens. You pseudo-libertarians deserve what you elect and by extension what your elected government appoint.

Re:The border exception is a usurpation.

[Solandri]

The Supreme Court has held that the Constitution only applies to U.S. territory. That was the whole rationale for putting a prison in Guantanamo Bay - it is not U.S. territory. Technically it is Cuban territory being leased to the U.S.

CBP operates under the policy that U.S. border stations (including at International airports) straddle the border between U.S. territory and not-U.S. territory, hence the 4th Amendment doesn't apply if you haven't yet been granted admission into the U.S. If you're trying to enter the country, their contention is that they can search whatever they damn well want to. The Constitution does state the Federal government shall protect states against invasion, so border searches vs the 4th Amendment pits one section of the Constitution against another. The SCotUS needs to decide which takes precedence, but given that all countries need to protect themselves from unlawful entry in order to maintain their existence, I suspect they'll side with the former.

Ironically, all the court decisions blocking states from protecting their own borders against illegal immigrants (e.g. Texas' and Arizona's laws) work in Trump's favor. Those cases established that the Federal government controls immigration policy and enforcement, not the states. When we had an administration favoring lenient policies towards illegal immigrants, the states had no choice but to comply. Now that we have an administration favoring harsh policies towards illegal immigrants, the states again have no choice but to comply.

Re:The border exception is a usurpation.

[jcr]

The Supreme Court has held that the Constitution only applies to U.S. territory.

Yeah, and they fucked up Korematsu, Dred Scott and Kelo too. What's your point?

Technically it is Cuban territory being leased to the U.S.

Which is irrelevant to the bill of rights. The fifth amendment doesn't say "unless you stash the people you kidnapped on foreign soil". For any American official to hold anyone in custody without trial is a crime.

all countries need to protect themselves from unlawful entry

This is a reason for positively identifying anyone seeking entry. It's not an argument for violating their 4th amendment rights.

-jcr

Re:The border exception is a usurpation.

[Hognoxious]

I thought all the guns were supposed to prevent shit like this?

Travel phone

[Visarga]

Just keep an old phone for travel. Don't install many apps, don't connect it to your accounts. Also, wipe the laptop clean before leaving.

Re:Travel phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I've considered this when traveling.

My only question is that lately at the borders (not just the US) they seem to be asking for accounts and passwords. Your email account, your social media, etc.

So if there is no evidence of an email account, no settings for connecting to it, or no evidence of use of social media on the phone or laptop you are carrying with you can you still be compelled to provide that information?

Re:Travel phone

[Grishnakh]

So if there is no evidence of an email account, no settings for connecting to it, or no evidence of use of social media on the phone or laptop you are carrying with you can you still be compelled to provide that information?

How? How would they know you have an email account someplace unless you tell them?

Now they could give you a hard time if you refuse to give them access to *any* email account. But that's easily solved: create a fake email account (Yahoo is perfect for this!) that you don't do anything with except receive some ads or something at. Give them the password to that one.

Social media is a little trickier. Perhaps you could disable your FB account before crossing the border? Claiming you have no such account could get you in trouble if they do a quick search with your name and find one that's obviously yours.

Re:Travel phone

[Zemran]

Get rid of Facebook. You do not need to see what your friends ate for breakfast. It is better to use a false name if you do need to use Facebook but do not use an obviously false name like Kingof Theworld as they will kick you. If you use John Gris your friends will get used to it. It is extremely dangerous, not just at the US border, to use your real name on Facebook. Many other countries will literally arrest you for things you do not even think of as wrong. A guy was arrested in Thailand for posting a BBC article about the junta on his Facebook page. He did not even comment, just linked to the BBC and got 5 years in prison. I am in south east Asia and I have stopped using Facebook altogether. I feel liberated.

Re:Travel phone

[Grishnakh]

You *do* need Facebook to log in to various other services. I used it, until recently, for Tinder, for example.

This doesn't mean you actually have to post stuff on there, or do anything substantive with it besides use it as a login service. The only things I use my FB account for are logins (and not even that at the moment; I have a girlfriend now so I don't log into Tinder now), and being "friends" with a few distant friends and not-so-distant family members who insist on using it. I never post anything.

simple

[crashumbc]

Take old phone, factory reset it. go through customs, find free wifi. reload phone....

The shit is getting easier and easier.

The next step is they'll hold you up, require your google or dropbox password...

We live in interesting times. until the "world" catches up to tech. Don't know which way things are going... 1984? Johnny Mnemonic? Blade Runner?

Re:simple

[AHuxley]

The only question will be knowing what a friend of a friend was doing on social media a few years ago.
How long have they been supporting ... funding... helping...
Its like a smarter 1984 world let the people party for a decade just to track their interactions later.
Room 101 was always waiting.

Re:simple

[Grishnakh]

I don't have a dropbox account (truthfully), so I can't give that up.

You can claim you don't have a Google account, if you're not carrying an Android phone. Carry a Windows phone and it'll seem believable. With the current popularity of Windows Phones (hehe), you should be able to get one of those really, really cheap now.

Danger do not try to Spy

[ghoul]

Someone should build a phone which blows up if someone tries to tamper with it.
Wait Samsung already built one.
Someone should just build a case for phones which makes them look like a Note 7.
No CBP agent will try to read it.

Re: Danger do not try to Spy

[DeltaQH]

I think a skunk phone could be a good idea. It would spray fetid liquid if tampered with. You could even have a special password that when entered by the wrong person triggers the fetid spray.

Not having a phone is not normal

[AHuxley]

So have a phone. A new phone with a new account from back in your own nation thats account ready for your destination.
It powers on, has a list of apps. It can be called. So any security questions about devices will fit in with what is expected of most people in 2017.
A laptop should be new. Only have productivity apps.
A camera should have a new card/s in it. Do not use the card. Any images on it will be looked at. Any camera deleted images can and will be recovered.
For any paperwork use your work or normal home email. If asked to produce any account passwords do so.
Lying is the most easy way not to enter a nation when asked.
Talk to your boss, company security if you have a work phone. That you will have to show it and any data on it. Any accounts, data on that phone might be copied, inspected. Buy a new phone for the trip.
Expect any social media accounts to be on file when questioned. Expect questions about any aspect of social media use going back years.
If a user was happy to support political movements, leaders, showed support for wars, a cult, faith or other issues in their own nation expect most nations to have that found that information and have questions ready.

Most nations do not have to let a person in. Their entry points are created to be a void of most legal protections. If every person wanted court access, a lawyer no bags or devices could be searched. Anyone could enter a nation with anything just by holding up their passport.
So questions can be asked and lying is not going to help. You will be searched and all devices will have any and all data extracted. Any encryption efforts will be discovered. Decryption may not be an option but lying will result in removal.
If your a citizen of that nation, your rights then apply but you have been discovered with something legally interesting.
Courts and other issues happen after questions. Lying is the most easy way to block a person from even entering a nation.
So be ready for a lot of questions, don't have anything on file, or thats been deleted. When asked to give an email password, give it.
If asked about social media, give the password. All your details are on file anyway. The question is asked in the hope that the person will lie and can be removed.

How to avoid all that? Dont use social media outside a work account. Only have email accounts.
Most nations will track down social media by 3 hops. Friends of friends. If any of them have been political interesting in any way, expect a lot of questions.
Telling lies about friends of friends is another easy lie to be caught in.

Re:Not having a phone is not normal

[Anonymous Coward]

So have a phone. A new phone with a new account from back in your own nation thats account ready for your destination.
It powers on, has a list of apps. It can be called. So any security questions about devices will fit in with what is expected of most people in 2017.
A laptop should be new. Only have productivity apps.
A camera should have a new card/s in it. Do not use the card. Any images on it will be looked at. Any camera deleted images can and will be recovered.
For any paperwork use your work or normal home email. If asked to produce any account passwords do so.
Lying is the most easy way not to enter a nation when asked.
Talk to your boss, company security if you have a work phone. That you will have to show it and any data on it. Any accounts, data on that phone might be copied, inspected. Buy a new phone for the trip.
Expect any social media accounts to be on file when questioned. Expect questions about any aspect of social media use going back years.
If a user was happy to support political movements, leaders, showed support for wars, a cult, faith or other issues in their own nation expect most nations to have that found that information and have questions ready.

TL;DR: bend over and take it up the ass like all the other sheep.

No thanks. Your approach is a big part of the reason that conditions continue to erode. The government/TLAs/bent cops/authority figures do bad things, you kowtow; they see that it's accepted, so they do worse things, you grin and accept it; lather, rinse, repeat. At what point do enough of you finally cry "enough of this bullshit" and do something about it?

Re:Not having a phone is not normal

[Anonymous Coward]

I recently entered Australia from the USA. Nobody gave the least of a crap about my phone, tablet, camera, or laptop in this case. It did take some effort to get a local SIM activated as the automated passport/visa verification system failed to function. Five minutes at the telephone store got it handled. I'll see how it goes the other way in a week or so.

Re:Not having a phone is not normal

[Demena]

Please ping me when you do. In the meantime, where are you, can I buy you lunch?

What if I have 100 phones?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because I do.

Activate a throwaway or old phone

[rtkluttz]

Encrypt the whole thing... then encrypt documents with a secondary form of encryption on the phone... Fill the documents with F-U gubment. Laugh when they say they need to take it at the border and refuse to give them the unlock codes. They'll take your phone and waste time to decrypt documents that simply tell them where to shove it. Hehehehehehe

Re:Activate a throwaway or old phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, if former GDR citizens get a bout of nostalgia and want to play "dodge the Stasi", a visit to the U.S. is their best bet.

Including the thrilling chance to disappear from the public and never reemerge.

No cares...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why I don't travel to the US on business (or Canada, or any other country that applies those rules without reasonable evidence to do so). Have no problem doing business with companies from such countries, but representatives have to come to us and not the other way around.
As for leisure, have no problem travelling to those countries... just wont take my phone (or laptop) with me. I'll buy one on arrival if I really need (old school chap, still very fond of having an agenda with contacts and business cards).

Ever since it was leaked about the US government espionage on EU companies and officials (and all the reports that we now have regularly as a consequence) we've been a bit more wary of state sponsored corporate espionage (sure, you can argue that it was for national security reasons, and could even pass as credible in case of the EU officials - sure, why not? I'll bite - but companies? Must be kidding, someone gained something along the way on that one... not to mention trying to control politicians and european industry to bend their way).

Yes, this is now a concert when visting the US

[Lisandro]

I can't believe we got this far. What are you guys doing to your country? Leaving your cellphone home used to be a consideration when visiting places like North Korea.

Re:Yes, this is now a concert when visting the US

[Zemran]

The US is nothing like North Korea. The North Korean leader has better hair.

Use a drop phone

[Anonymous Coward]

If you travel internationally, bring a second phone, but continue using your primary. On the plane swap in your normal SM. If they even ask to see your phone (which they won't because honestly they don't care) give them the phone that has nothing on it. If they find it odd there's nothing on it say you brought it just to have a phone with you for international use but you didn't end up using it.

Seriously WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, I'm sorry but this whole thread is about the gestapo like police force you've allowed, through fear, to be setup at your borders. Just take a step back and look at what you're allowing to happen here, confiscation of property, heavy handed searches, intimidation and for what? To stop the terrorists that in their wildest dreams think that this is the way to get into the US? Through an airport? Wake the fuck up. It's just crazy and I suspect, has very little to do with terrorism.

The whole thing, their excuse for it, your willingness to put up with it, it's all nuts! Organize yourselves America, start calling your "representatives", you can get millions in the street for any number of causes, how about you get a couple of million people in the street and call for an end to this farce? Remember that your representative works for you, not the other way around.

Re:Seriously WTF?

[Grishnakh]

Look, I'm sorry but this whole thread is about the gestapo like police force you've allowed

your willingness to put up with it

Organize yourselves America, start calling your "representatives"

What's that going to do? We've voted these people into office. That's the way representative democracy works: you elect someone to do the job the way they think it should be done, after they've campaigned and told you their positions. None of this is a surprise with these politicians. Calling them now isn't going to make a difference; most of their constituents are happy with the way they're doing their jobs: Congress is infamous for most Americans being extremely *un*happy with its performance, *except* for their own Congressman who they love. These representatives already are doing the jobs we've elected them to do. A minority of us bitching and complaining isn't going to change things, because most Americans *like* it this way, or they wouldn't have voted this way.

Really bad odds

[SuperKendall]

The attempt to harm government equipment is stupid on many levels, but right out of the gate it's stupid because the odds are extremely low of your phone even being looked at. I've never had the border agents even ask to see my computer, much less my phone. The odds are very slim they ever will so you'd be going to a lot of trouble just for nothing to happen.

Re:Really bad odds

[Anonymous Coward]

Legislators in both USA and Canada have been investigating downloading cell phone/laptop data as standard policy for all travelers. It hasn't happened yet, but dismissing it as slim odds is not forward looking enough. Having said that -- I agree with you that trying to take on the government as a lone traveler is foolhardy!

If you are traversing America

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, by all means. The rest of the world isn't a fascist police state.

Oh and it's been fucked up like this for the last 16 years, it's nice you dumbasses finally got a president you so deserve that is making you realise what a shit hole you've turned your nation into.

Bad advice

[Applehu Akbar]

No private individual should carry around a phone that crammed with highly sensitive personal information that having to open it for border security is that big a problem. This doesn't apply in Bikkanavar's case because it was his work phone, secured by NASA. Keep on your own phone nothing but the data you need to support the mobile functions you actually use.

Even if you travel without setting up an international roaming plan, your smartphone is good at doing two things: allowing you to stay in communication by Skype and email wherever here is WiFi, and being your backup camera that in event of loss or problems with your Big Camera might be your only way of capturing the priceless views you will never pass by again. I once left for a five-week trip through several European countries thinking that I had arranged for international roaming with my carrier. Although I got No Service wherever I went due to a problem with the SIM, the Skype capability kept me in touch.

Re:Bad advice

[wvmarle]

You're mixing up security and privacy. This is more about the latter.

You are getting mixed up

[dbIII]

You are getting mixed up.
It's not hate of America, it's hate of the TSA.
I'd rather not have my balls squeezed in public thank you.

Re:You are getting mixed up

[Ol Olsoc]

You are getting mixed up. It's not hate of America, it's hate of the TSA.

For some. It's getting pretty difficult to think that there aren't a lot of people here who do hate America. Oh well, Peace out.

Re:You are getting mixed up

[dbIII]

It's getting pretty difficult to think that there aren't a lot of people here who do hate America

Some of the press is focused on that and blowing it out of proportion.
Remember that even Bin Laden hated some people supported by US government military aid far more than he hated the USA.

Re: IIRC, you don't have to give them the passwor

[Anonymous Coward]

So what you're saying is: "Fuck you, prole, that's why!"

Yes, and

[ThatsNotPudding]

Keep in mind the LEO community of every stripe (pastry?) came out overwhelmingly for Trump. Hell, the goons in US Customs and Border Protection (CPB) were *actively* ignoring Federal judge court orders banning Bannon's XO.

Plenty of US Blue Shirts champing at the bit to be Il Trumpe's brown shirts. Psychotic high school bullies don't change: they just become cops.

Not just entering US, but also leaving

[redelm]

The US entrance controls are obvious -- immigration and customs officers you must satisfy. Unlike some countries (AU), there are no obvious exit controls. But the US has always exerted jurisdiction over _exports_ so CBP officers can and do stop people leaving the US to inspect for prohibited exports. Just about any comp/phone might be seized because it contains crypto (5A002, 5A992 unless you have the resources to press the Mass Market exemption).

Even if CBP are being less @$$hole-ish (seriously, a job requirement), they can certainly claim electronics could be carrying data (mostly instructions) that are prohibited export.

You can still carry a phone

[Anonymous Coward]

The last time I boarded an international flight, I had my old trusty Nokia 3310 in my pocket. Hilarity ensued.

Buy a Nokia and a spare cheap laptop.

[Zemran]

The Nokia 515 is just as good at making calls but that is all it does. Nokia are about the rerelease the 3310. You do not need to have any data on it but you do want to be able to call people and be called by people so you get a phone number. The cheap laptop can be wiped and you can store all your important data remotely so that you can access it after you arrive. Sit in a decent cafe and download all the date you need via your VPN while relaxing over a latte or in your hotel.

Fingerprinting at the border

[Anonymous Coward]

How are those Canadian beaches? Disney? Rocket sites? The Canadian Rockies ARE amazing. Definitely worth the visit. Lots of nice things to do and see in Canada, just it isn't the USA.

Never felt that way entering or leaving the USA, but I've never been singled out for extra checks. I will be leaving my normal smartphone behind and I've been traveling with a chromebook (only using the guest account) for years.

China, Israel, South Korea, come to mind as places where I've felt violated by border controls.

Leaving the Czech Republic was pretty nasty too - felt sexually assaulted after the double-groping before getting on to the plane. They didn't look at any electronics, beyond the normal x-ray.

Back in the 1990s, US immigration was in the Vancouver airport. I remember being hassled there returning from a ski trip.

Places I didn't feel violated after 2001 .... Spain, South Africa, Nepal, Singapore, Japan, Argentina, Costa Rica, Turkey, France, Italy, UK, Canada. Many of those places, I don't recall being stopped at all, which can't be the case, since the passport had to be stamped.

but... TSA is our friend!

[mad7777]

Twelve Current and Former TSA and Airport Employees Indicted for Smuggling Approximately 20 Tons of Cocaine

Oh, it seems I've misinterpreted the law once again. Silly me! I read the white paint on the barn wall as "It is illegal to import cocaine", but somehow I never noticed the next line, "unless you are a TSA agent." I wonder why the handwriting is different... looks like a pig wrote it.

Worse than North Korea

[psychonaut]

I've made scores of international trips in my life, for business and pleasure, and on only one occasion did the border guards demand access to my laptop. That was at Pyongyang International Airport in North Korea, in August of 2015. And at least the search was conducted in full view of myself -- they even asked me to do a lot of it myself, since they were completely unfamiliar with KDE and couldn't type on my Dvorak keyboard. It turns out all they were looking for were South Korean movies (which they didn't want me distributing to the locals), and as soon as it became obvious that I had none, they called off the search.

I avoid the US whenever posible

[DeltaQH]

Last time I had to land in the US I got fingerprinted and photographed, just to change from international flight to an American airline flight which was not even bound to an US airport. And this was more than a decade ago. Since then I avoid any landing in US territory and any airline with flights using American Airlines as connection flight. I still remember the face of the customs officer. He looked to be so proud of protecting his country borders... from passengers in transit to an US outbound flight! That was a waste of resources and a way to pishing off people perception of US Curiously now I fly mostly in non American airplanes, but that is unintentional.

How I renew my phones

[DeltaQH]

Each time I visit the US I come back with a new phone... or laptop... or tablet.

No USA rule.

[stooo]

>>Should International Travelers Leave Their Phones At Home?

Nope. They should just never travel to USA any more.

The occupational government in the US claims that

[Anonymous Coward]

anyone within 100 miles of the border is in the Border Security Zone where the US Constitution doesn't apply. Yeah, they simply made this treason up.

About 2/3 of US Citizens live in this area and even more pass through it.

They are an organized group of people that are enemies of the US Constitution.

That's the definition of Treason - the only crime specifically described in the US Constitution.

They are the Domestic Enemies of the US Constitution that the President and Armed Forces take an oath to oppose.

The real enemies of Freedom are not stone age Captagon addicts on the other side of the planet but rather the army of would be dictators right here at home.

Phones need a "suitcase"

[DrXym]

Some straightforward and simple to back up all the personal and private data into a file that can be offloaded, factory reset the phone, walk through with the clean phone, and "unpack" it on the other side.

Someone needs to build a 'dual' phone :)

[Assmasher]

You put in one code for your phone, you put in another code to get some default boring ass phone image with banal information.

Let's be clear

[sjames]

The Constitution applies to the U.S. government and to the citizens of the united states. It does not include geographic limitations of any kind. All of this making borders a Constitution free zone is completely unConstitutional. I don't care if the ground I am standing on is legally considered to be the Greater 2nd Empire of Mars, I am still a U.S. Citizen and the border guard is still a representative of the U.S. government. The Constitution applies. Obviously it isn't being respected, but it certainly applies.

Will avoid the US

[prefec2]

For the time being, I will not try to submit papers to US-based conferences, as a separate travel laptop for the US and a separate phone is (a) expensive and (b) I need the data on the phone. Shall I memorize all the contacts? Certainly not. As most international conferences are not every year in the US, I can work around this.

Fedx

[Anonymous Coward]

Anything you dont want fucked with

Why?

[nospam007]

Just do a backup and reset your phone to factory default.
Travel to the US.
In the hotel start the restore and sleep your jet-lag off.

Only if you go to the US

[Anonymous Coward]

No other country pulls this nonsense.

I can see where this is leading...

[Cognivore]

US Jackboot: "May I see your smart-phone please."
Me: "I don't have one with me."
US Jackboot: "Excuse me? Why do you not have a smart-phone?"
Me: I didn't want the hassle of having it possibly examined."
US Jackboot: "Okay, please step over here so we can get further information about you."
Me: Fuck.

Re:Ways around this - NO!

[Anonymous Coward]

No, what the AVERAGE people of EVERY country should do is say "We think ALL countries "rulers" even ours - suck big green donkey dicks, and we will interact with each other and IGNORE the FUCK out of every countries rulers".

If you have sensitive stuff

[MpVpRb]

..on your phone or portable computer, don't take it anywhere where it could be lost, stolen or intercepted by police

Buy another one for travel that has zero sensitive stuff on it

"... held on Canadian soil by US border officials"

[Futurepower(R)]

Mod parent UP!

The Stasi.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Stasi. Crucified, dead and buried. On the third decade, it rose again according to the files. And ascended into the U.S.A. and sitteth to the ultra-right of its origin. And it shall come again with glory to judge both the living and the dead.

Yes, that's blasphemous. So stop it.

Ship 'em

[Rick Schumann]

Encrypt the hard drive of your computer and ship it separate from your flight. Be sure to box it for shipment before you take it to where you're shipping it from, and tell them it's anything other than a computer. Leave your smartphone at home, and either take a burner phone with you, or buy the cheapest burner phone you can when you arrive at your destination, with the intention of destroying it utterly and discarding it before you depart to go back home. If you get asked about any 'social media' accounts you have, tell them in no uncertain terms that you don't use so-called 'social media', and then launch into an unasked-for diatribe on how so-called 'social media' is anything but, is making people LESS social, is responsible for so many social problems we're having in the world, is destroying the planet, etc etc etc, until their eyes glaze over and they wave you through the checkpoint just to get you to shut up. They can't search what you don't have, and they can't poke their noses into something they don't believe you have in the first place. Problems solved! Was that so difficult?

What about

[Anonymous Coward]

backing up your phone's data encrypted to a cloud-based location and then wiping your phone before you travel? Since there's nothing on the phone, happily comply with any unlock order. After you're past customs, rewipe your phone (in case the customs guys "accidentally" infected it), and then download your data from the cloud.

Yes, it's a PITA. If you really want to resist, after wiping your phone, fill it with with LOLCATS photos and videos. If they take an image of your data, they get to waste several GiB of space (if we all did that, they'd feel it).

Some skills

[whathappenedtomonday]

"[...]Trump adopted a highly unusual defence, known as 'force majeure'. He claimed that the 2008 economic crisis was a 'once-in-a-century credit tsunami', an act of God that was equivalent to an earthquake.

Since it couldn't have been anticipated, and it wasn't his fault, he wasn't obliged to pay Deutsche anything. It wouldn't get the $40m or the outstanding $330m, his writ said.

He went further. Trump claimed Deutsche Bank had actually helped cause the crunch. Therefore it owed him. Trump demanded $3bn from Deutsche in compensation."

Some skills.

don't carry important shit

[gravewax]

How about "DON'T PUT IMPORTANT SHIT ON YOUR PHONE", seriously phones are the most easily stolen devices and they all have a myriad of hacks around them, why would anyone store anything critical on them. I work in IT and I travel internationally all the time, if airport security want access to my phone or laptop they are welcome too it, anything critical to me is stored separately on an encrypted drive

$PATH

[raymorris]

Check out the environmental variable called PATH. It's this new thing added to computers in 1977 so you don't need to know the location of each executable.

Leave your phone at home, but bring a burner...

[b0s0z0ku]

A cheap Android phone bought on EBay. Have exactly NO data on it, but lock it with a long password. If they try to bully you into giving up the password, let the fucking pigs confiscate it.

Why? For $10 or $20, you can waste a lot of their time -- let them crack the encryption to yield exactly zilch. The best way to fight Trumpian authoritarianism is to gum up the system and overload the pigs who are "just doing their jobs" with unnecessary, wasteful work.

Correct Procedures

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Buy a viruses filled client laptop
2. remove the password
3. Let the TSA have fun
4. ????
5. Newsworthy Article

Re: right to appeal or explanation?

[slashrio]

I think the US government, and through them the US population, has explained themselves quite clear:
"Actually we don't really want you here, and if you really think of visiting us, think again."

Re: time and manpower

[slashrio]

Automation.
The process would require you to plug your phone into a USB connector which then sucks it empty.

Re: honor of the law

[slashrio]

Nicely said!

Re: pole dance

[slashrio]

Even then, some women learn pole dancing only to please (arouse for personal use?) their husband.

Re: turn their back on the governmen

[slashrio]

Some people (with varying degrees of success) try to live a life obeying only the 'law of the land'.

Re: dumbass

[slashrio]

justified rage :)

Re: never put anything valuable on a phone.

[slashrio]

How about: Never go to the USA until 'they the people' have cleaned up the acts of their government?

Re: 'best' security theater

[slashrio]

How about 'worst'?

Re: American perspective

[slashrio]

You mean CIA perspective? They have funded the pro-Europe movements from the start in order to get one single institution to influence, instead of a multitude of separate countries.

Re: time and manpower

[SlaveToTheGrind]

Of course, you changed the hypothetical from the one I responded to: "pretty soon everyone will have to unlock their phone and hand it over to a customs agent while they're getting their passport swiped."

But in any event, it takes a fair amount of time to slurp tens of GB over a USB interface. Either your line starts to move at that rate, or you have banks of ports that you herd people up to. Then, once they're unsupervised, you have to trust them to plug in the right device and not a decoy (and to plug in all their devices if they have more than one), trust they're not running modded firmware that hides certain folders/data from the USB interface, and so on.

If something this draconian ever happens, you can come right back here and rub my face in it, and I'll cheerfully admit I was wrong (and will help lead the charge on a workaround). That's a completely safe offer on my part, because it won't happen.

#fakenews

[Anonymous Coward]

#fakenews

Just an idea...

[tackdriver]

How about you simply run your phone out of charge and put it in your checked in baggage? Are they going to sit around waiting for it to get to minimum charge after fishing it out?

This is an American problem

[Anonymous Coward]

And like doing business with the U.S. who will destabalize your government can be avoided or considered a cost of interacting with the U.S.... Just don't go to the U.S.

Going to China

[zedaroca]

That's one of the reasons I'm going to China this year's vacation, instead of the US.
That's right Americans, your country is currently worst than China when it comes to freedom. Well, technically not your country, your 100 miles borders.
Think about that.

Wondering...

[Meski]

If my Nokia 6110 still works. That and a prepaid SIM should be ok.

I just do not go, sadly

[Anonymous Coward]

I have the US on my no-fly list since a number of years.

Unfortunately.

The times in the past when I have visited the US, I found it to be a great place, with great people. I definitely wanted to visit again, and bring the rest of my family with me. Sadly, given the circumstances of late, that is simply not going to happen.

I love the country. I love the people. I dislike the policies. The current administration, by the way, is on an entirely new level. I did not think it could get worse, but it sure did, and then some.

The US has my sympathy, but my money goes elsewhere.

Cue the haters...

Re: changed the hypothetical

[slashrio]

I thought I countered your objection about the manpower.
Regarding the time it takes you may be right, for now.

Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

And if you bring a computer, shadow encrypt the system so that if you have to decrypt it, you have a dummy partition that boots with nothing other than an OS. Remember the drones at the entry point have the mentality of a bug... Even the smallest bit of security will completely stump them...

5th Amendment

[Anonymous Coward]

You are still protected by the 5th amendment at the border. You are under no legal obligation to divulge your password. The US Supreme Court has ruled on this. That's why it's a bad idea to use a fingerprint to open your phone. The US Supreme Court said that the border patrol has the legal right to force you to open your phone with your fingerprint.

International Travellers

[Stubbyfingers]

Should leave themselves at HOME.

I would not recommend coming to the United States in our current political climate. It could be extremely dangerous for them.

I'm not here to spew hate at people from other countries...I'm saying that there are elements in this country right now who would not hesitate to injure or kill them in the name of "Making America Great".