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EU Privacy Watchdogs Say Windows 10 Settings Still Raise Concerns (reuters.com)

Julia Fioretti, reporting for Reuters: European Union data protection watchdogs said on Monday they were still concerned about the privacy settings of Microsoft's Windows 10 operating system despite the U.S. company announcing changes to the installation process. The watchdogs, a group made up of the EU's 28 authorities responsible for enforcing data protection law, wrote to Microsoft last year expressing concerns about the default installation settings of Windows 10 and users' apparent lack of control over the company's processing of their data. The group -- referred to as the Article 29 Working Party -- asked for more explanation of Microsoft's processing of personal data for various purposes, including advertising. "In light of the above, which are separate to the results of ongoing inquiries at a national level, even considering the proposed changes to Windows 10, the Working Party remains concerned about the level of protection of users' personal data," the group said in a statement which also acknowledged Microsoft's willingness to cooperate.

32 of 161 comments (clear)

  1. This is an OS by HalAtWork · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It shouldn't be collecting data of any kind unless you opt to submit crash reports

    1. Re:This is an OS by yuvcifjt · · Score: 5, Informative

      The same can be said about any Google product from Android/ChromeOS to Search/Maps/Mail to Doubleclick/Captcha/Analytics/Tag Manager/APIs/+1/etc.

      I'm not defending MS doing it so openly, but we should put things in perspective and realise how powerful Google is compared to any other company. They even have their hands dirty in the system behind tax and health in various companies and governments, not to mention corporate email systems!

    2. Re:This is an OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft has stated that they think of Windows 10 as a "service". So you're not buying an operating system you're buying a service that MS is allowing you to use their software in exchange for money and privacy.

    3. Re:This is an OS by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wish i had mod points but yes. Google keeps "updating" tools that require the latest browser so "older" browsers get phased out. Then they jump in bed with the makers of the browsers to whittle away your ability to stop being tracked or defend against seeing ads.

      +1 insightful for you.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    4. Re:This is an OS by iampiti · · Score: 2

      Yes, Android also does it and it's also wrong.
      What I'd like every OS to have is an option of turning off all gathering of data for money making purposes (i.e. paying the OS with your data) and to pay instead with money. You know, like Windows used to be.
      I'm not sure if that should be legally required (I'm not sure either if I want governments putting their noses so deep in everything) but it would be nice.

    5. Re:This is an OS by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      but we should put things in perspective

      Indeed and for the most part many people have. I give data to Google because I get something tangible in return. Better traffic through location information, automatic destinations in maps, flight reminders based on emails I receive, etc. For the most party I share information willingly when I get something in return.

      Which is why in Windows 10 I also tick the option to "learn" handwriting which I know full well is being sent to MS for analysis. That's the only thing I tick, because it's also the only one that gives me some benefit.

      I don't expect things for free, and by extension, neither should the corporations.

    6. Re:This is an OS by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Try deleting all of your Google cookies and visiting YouTube. You can't even watch a video until you've clicked through a bunch of T&Cs explaining that you agree to their data collecting and sharing. There's a button at the bottom saying 'I agree' and another saying 'other options', if you click on the second one, then you get to a big page full of text that basically boils down to 'sucks to be you.' If you create a Google account, then you can somewhat restrict what they'll collect to anonimised, but there's a load of research showing that basically any form of anonimised data can be deanonimised by combining it with other data sets (which, by coincidence, Google also collects).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:This is an OS by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

      I actually do this regularly, both by clearing cookies and using private browsing modes. Videos play instantly for me, no agreements of click-through T&Cs.

      The only time you need an account is to watch videos marked as "adult", although you can skip that requirement just by editing the video's URL.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:This is an OS by Rhipf · · Score: 2

      I hate defending microsoft, however the problem is most users won't install an update. even today the average user is to stupid to understand how and why they should update.

      Look at ios and Mac OS . iOS achieves something like an 75% updates installed within 3 months of it being released.
      versus
      andriod or windows xp/7 which gets 25% of updates installed in 6 months.

      The problem with comparing Apple with any other computer company is that Apple fully controls their product line. When Apple pushes an update they know exactly what the base hardware is (since they make it themselves). When Android and Microsoft push updates they have to worry that the update may adversely affect machines made by numerous hardware manufacturers. In Android's case the manufacturer of the device may not even make an updated OS for their older devices and loading Google's base Android OS isn't something many end users can/will do.

  2. EU Governments need to ban Windows 10. by Zombie+Ryushu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only way for the Privacy of EU Citizens to be assured of Privacy in the EU is for EU Governments to ban the Use of Windows 10. The entire OS is Spyware. Full stop.

    1. Re:EU Governments need to ban Windows 10. by xlsior · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If they were to ban the sale of Win10 in the EU, Microsoft would magically have a non-privacy-violating version read the next day.

      The EU is a much larger market than North America, Microsoft couldn't afford to ignore it.

    2. Re:EU Governments need to ban Windows 10. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If they were to ban the sale of Win10 in the EU, Microsoft would magically have a non-privacy-violating version read the next day.

      And pirated by us US-ians the day after that.

    3. Re:EU Governments need to ban Windows 10. by 4im · · Score: 2

      That's one point. There's quite some domains where it's illegal to send production data across a border, especially if the target country has lesser protections (think safe harbor). I can't see how that's magically not going to happen if Win10 is used with its spyware in place.

      Let's not forget professionals with obligations of privacy, such as lawyers, attorneys, doctors etc. I don't know how e.g. hospitals can go down the Windows road, or how medical equipment can be run with this OS.

      And let's not forget either that per EULA, MS Windows is not to be used in critical infrastructure - there's plenty of examples where it's used anyway, including US warships.

    4. Re:EU Governments need to ban Windows 10. by Godwin+O'Hitler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, if the Express said that in an 8-month old article I guess it must be true.

      --
      No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
    5. Re:EU Governments need to ban Windows 10. by dave420 · · Score: 2

      Thanks to the more sane forms of democracy in Europe those countries are very likely to not be taken over by right-wing lunatics. The German ministry of the interior stated that crimes haven't spiked, and that refugees behave (on average) as lawfully as Germans. The claims about Sweden are just that - claims, and not backed up by official statistics. The refugees are a net positive to the economy, as they work and pay taxes. Hell, even if every single refugee in Germany didn't pay taxes, they would still pay for themselves as subsequent generations will pay taxes. So even in the worst case scenario it won't spell the end of Germany, or even put an unworkable amount of pressure on it.

      Please stop parroting these debunked claims - it's only making you look scared and uninformed.

  3. They also need to prevent unattended reboots by Snotnose · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My #1 complaint on Win10, over the telemetry and touch oriented interface, is the fact that whenever I open my laptop I never know if it will have rebooted or not.

    I don't understand how M$ can think it's ok to reboot my laptop without first getting my consent. If it weren't for a couple programs I need Windows for I'd have 2 laptops running Linux, instead of just 1.

    1. Re:They also need to prevent unattended reboots by Snotnose · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not really. There are thousands of apps companies write to support their widget. For each app there isn't enough interest (mostly because you need $companies product to need the app) for the OSS folks to care.

      If you have to buy a $20k doohicky that takes a dedicated windows app to control, how many OSS folks will be chomping at the bit to write the control program?

  4. It requires a lot of overhead... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are many tools to help with this... Spybot has a nice one (anti-beacon). There is also a plethora of information of Microsoft's telemetry targets that can be zero-routed to take care of most of it but yes it is a lot of overhead for the average person or small/medium business. Sadly it isn't just Windows 10.. its office 2016/365 as well and I'm not sure how much is scraped from Cortana and Edge.

  5. Microsoft's Windows but not Google's Chrome? by yuvcifjt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Interesting to note how much Google is spending on bribing (aka "lobbying") the EU.
    Not to mention the US.

    But of course, both Microsoft and Google should be publicly shamed for using their users and leaching them of their private lives.

  6. Mass Protect time: GIGO Microsoft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We need to create an app called "GIGO". We'd give it a mascot, maybe a big yellow friendly llama, with a long tail and pointy ears grinning. Make it look like some poindexter that cannot shut the heck up.

    Upon installing, it asks you for a personality; neurotic Nancy, paranoid Paul, Bodacious Bob, and so forth. It then turns on every conceivable tracking option and signs up for every account Microsoft wants you to like a good little MS Drone.

    It does bing searches for random key words, logs into random websites, turns on every conceivable tracking option, it browses sites like Salon, looks for sentences with a ? at the end, then copies and pastes them into Cortana then randomly clicks on a link, over and over and over again. It brings up youtube videos, enables audio loopback, and plays speeches back to microsoft off of youtube. It would browse twitter, and reddit, and 4chan, and and wet sweaty armpits of google image search, download random pictures, then rename them similar to digital camera files, while changing the color, pitch, resolution and so forth slightly each time, and upload them to onedrive; if it's neurotic nancy she uploads and deletes a gig of crap every week. If it's paranoid paul, he only puts a few images a day up, and also copies and pastes random sentences from books together.

    In other words, we'd build a bot to harass Microsoft. A team of people would get together and determine what the next thing to feed Microsoft would be. Every month we'd do another kick starter; vote with your dollars to hire people to find and photo shop pictures of Microsoft employee's as Borg drones and upload them to the mother-ship. Upload tons of cat picks to Microsoft but in every conceivable spelling and mis-spelling of pussy.

    The ultimate goal would be, since Microsoft has decided AI is the future and everything they do is pointless, we'll simply feed Microsoft a never-ending stream of complete, utter, and total dog sh!# data. We'd want to get to the point of ridiculousness where Microsoft has to sue the app creators for damages or ask the FBI to arrest them for hacking, but the only real hacking going on is they're enabling the automation of friendly GIGO, talking about whatever people wanted GIGO to talk to Microsoft about. We'd advertise GIGO as "A friendly computer use assistant that makes your computer feel loved by using it when you aren't".

    That's what needs to happen here. Fatten the hog on garbage, then slaughter it.

  7. vote with your wallet by FudRucker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    dont buy microsoft windows 10, buy a computer without windows that has Linux pre-installed or install your favorite flavor of Linux.

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:vote with your wallet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      dont buy microsoft windows 10, buy a computer without windows that has Linux pre-installed or install your favorite flavor of Linux.

      Yeah, or wipe it and install 7. I'm still running XP (with PoS updates) on many computers, having no problems. I don't know why so many techies like to bash XP - "it's an antiquated unsupported OS". I guess bashing anything is the current popular trendy thing. If 7 or 10 where so radically different I would understand. Right now XP is very refined. People should want a very refined, developed OS. Obviously Linux is well refined, fully open, and I've been running mostly SlackWare for most than 20 years, but there are many great easy distros like Mint out there.

    2. Re:vote with your wallet by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 2

      It's getting harder and harder to purchase a computer that doesn't come with Windows (unless you get a custom build from the corner computer store) and it's almost impossible to get a laptop.

      And if you bite the bullet and pay the Windows tax to get a computer, it's almost impossible to get to a real bios so you can install something else on it. Windows Boot Manager, anyone? (Shudder)

      I would love to be able to zip into Staples and buy this week's on-sale laptop off the shelf and know that will work with Linux. But it can't be done.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
  8. Re:The EU is full of LUDDITES. by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 2

    LUDDITE Linux?
    You can't drop a nugget like that without link to an ISO or a torrent!
    I can't wait to see the version names...
    Awesome Antique
    Busy Broom
    Cheerful Churn
    Delightful Duster...

    --
    You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
  9. Got tired of that shit, went back to Win 7. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was constantly fighting my computer when it was running Windows 10.

    Disabling annoying telemetry stuff (only to be re-enabled by some random patch), trying to constantly kill Windows Update so it didn't force a reboot in the middle of something important (only to have that re-enabled by some random patch as well), etc.

    I went from "hey, this is a pretty reliable machine I can actually rely on for daily use" to "what the fuck is Microsoft going to screw up today and cost me an hour or two of work to fix?".

    In the end, it wasn't worth it. Reverted to Windows 7, haven't looked back. I don't really know what I'm going to do when they fuck up Windows 7 just as badly or try to depreciate it, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. It'd sure be nice if ReactOS was capable and stable enough to run x64_64 applications, and enough of them that I could use it as a daily driver.

    1. Re:Got tired of that shit, went back to Win 7. by iampiti · · Score: 2

      I love what the ReactOS guys are doing but the OS is years away from being usable.
      I peruse the commit logs from time to time and they seem to have around 10 devs. You can't make much measurable progress with those numbers of people on a task the size of cloning Windows.
      To get a Windows clone good enough to be a daily driver would require tens if not hundreds of devs.

    2. Re:Got tired of that shit, went back to Win 7. by StormReaver · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't really know what I'm going to do when they fuck up Windows 7 just as badly [as Windows 10] or try to [deprecate] it, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

      You're at that bridge right now. It's time to start switching to Linux, while you still have some breathing room, and not wait until you're in a crisis.

      Windows 7 is already deprecated, though support hasn't been complete pulled yet (but all the copies of Windows 7 that will ever be provided to retailers are already in play). And ReactOS will NEVER reach API parity with Windows 7/10+. WINE has been chasing the Windows API for decades, with spotty success at best.

      I switched to Linux full time back in 1999, and haven't used Windows at home since then. I weathered the ups and downs of my transition, learning as I went along, but it didn't take long before the Linux way (I settled on Kubuntu) of doing things seemed more natural than the Windows way of doing things.

      But I didn't wait until I was at a do-or-die confrontation with life. I switched while I still had plenty of time to learn my new surroundings. This is where you are right now. Don't wait until you are under pressure. Start now by using the same Free and Open Source Software on Windows as you will be using under Linux (to the extent that it is available on Windows). Then, when you switch, you won't be under extreme pressure to replace your software and operating system at the same time.

    3. Re:Got tired of that shit, went back to Win 7. by allo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      TL:DR: A OS should work for you, not against you.

  10. Windows 10 is a means to an end by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Informative

    Microsoft has re-purposed Windows. No longer is Windows main functionality an operating system. Windows has become the basis for egregiously extensive data collection. The sooner everyone who uses Windows realizes that, the sooner they will stop trying to keep Windows in the past when it was actually a useful operating system.

  11. Re: Microsoft's Arrogance is Shameful by PingSpike · · Score: 2

    Right, I forgot most humans die due to PC gaming deficiency. Microsoft has the big budget EA games that are required to prevent PC Gaming malnourishment related deaths that plagued mankind for centuries. I guess there's nothing to be done then.

  12. The issue is by kilodelta · · Score: 2

    Microsoft is rather stupid. Everything to do with ads, spying etc. is run through Bing. So as a general principle I block Bing at my firewall. Of course the Windows 10 machine tries phoning home frequently and I see it in the firewall logs.

  13. Re:And let your computer attack others' computers by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

    If and when you choose to update

    If your computer is connected to the Internet, and you choose not to update, and a computer intruder takes advantage of this choice to surreptitiously install a botnet worker on your computer, how shall users of computers other than yours be protected from attacks originating from your computer? Automatic updates provide the counterpart to herd immunity.

    If your computer is so unsafe that one update missed makes it a menace to everyone on the internet, it is not even remotely the users fault. If many of the updates make your computer inoperative, or it stops doing what you bought it for, It isn't much of an operating system.

    People buy computers to do thing on, and the main purpose is to do those things, not receive updates because the OS is inherently non-secure.

    I update my Linux and MacOS machines soon after the updates are available. I hold off on Windows as long as possible.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.