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Studies Show Testosterone Offers Little Benefits To Aging Men (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: In decades of research, scientists have found only one medical condition that's clearly and effectively treated with testosterone supplements: pathological hypogonadism -- that's low testosterone levels due to disease of the hypothalamus, pituitary gland, or testes. In a series of placebo-controlled, randomized trials, researchers tracked the effect of testosterone on the cognition, bone health, anemia, and cardiovascular health of 788 men for a year. All the men were aged 65 or older and had low testosterone levels that couldn't be explained by anything other than age. The results, reported Tuesday in JAMA and JAMA Internal Medicine, offer mixed results. Among the 493 in the trial who also had age-related memory declines, testosterone didn't have any effect on memory or cognitive abilities. In the study, 247 got testosterone and 246 got a placebo. But for cardiovascular health, there was an effect -- a bad one. Over the year, plaque buildup in the coronary artery -- which is a risk factor for heart disease -- increased in 73 men on testosterone compared with 65 on placebo. However, other studies have found mixed results on this. Longer, bigger trials will be needed to sort out the risks. In the anemia study, testosterone did seem to improve iron levels in men with mild anemia. The bone health study also showed that testosterone could improve bone density. However, it's unclear if those benefits outweigh the possible cardiovascular risks. And other drugs may be more effective at treating anemia and improving bone mass than testosterone.
As someone on TRT I can't imagine coming off. If it helps older men as much as it has helped me with my lethargy and depression, there is no reason to deny them.
It'll make your hair fall out faster.
You know - the reasons people actually have for taking testosterone. Nobody takes testosterone for anemia or 'bone health'. It is always about muscle & sex.
Over the year, plaque buildup in the coronary artery -- which is a risk factor for heart disease -- increased in 73 men on testosterone compared with 65 on placebo. However, other studies have found mixed results on this
What are you smoking? 73 against 65 IS a mixed result!
73/247 against 65/246 is 29% against 26%. An increased risk of 11% in a small sample is well within bounds of expected variance.
Looking at the cardiovascular health results they looked for symptomatic deficient in mailings.
They got fat and unhealthy people. Mood is very affected by testosterone replacement and might very well affect their eating which looks like a likely cause.
"At baseline, noncalcified plaque volume showed considerable variability, and the median in the testosterone group (204 mm3 [interquartile range, 60 to 420 mm3]) was somewhat lower than that in the placebo group (317 mm3 [interquartile range, 168 to 589 mm3])"
The massive variation suggests a need to test if this is a result of replacement or part of the group just eating more.
So what about DHEA, a natural steroid? I know it has an positive effect on sex drive, and is unofficially used for IVF in women (and it works very well at increasing egg production). The bodies DHEA production is supposed to decline with age (particularly in men) and taking supplements is supposed to have major benefits for cardiovascular health etc. Is there research on that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydroepiandrosterone
Among other things it's a testosterone pre-cursor.
My trophy husband doesn't need any testosterone, I only married him for his fat wallet, and I fuck young guys I meet at the gym.
Testosterone is a cost you have to pay for the survival of the species, it has only bad effects on the long term,but a short term gain in building bigger, stronger, faster, more aggressive bodies at an early stage. The hormones for females help combat the fact they have to survive with a foreign body compromising their immune system.
Why do you think women live longer and healthier than men? Testosterone only builds for the young survival. Because men have to win fights or they don't get to pass on their genes, whereas women have to survive childbirth or they don't get to pass on their genes, and that childbirth is a long term issue, whereas males winning chances to be top dog drop dramatically after a few years, so optimising for long life is irrelevant.
Not just testosterone. but also *all* snake oil remedies benefit ageing men. The snake oil hawkers are overwhelmingly ageing men. They benefit a lot. In fact, for many, it is their meal ticket.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
It's well known that there is increased risk of hypogonadism...but the risk is far outweighed by the benefits.
When these studies eventually test men on TRT for how they FEEL, if they are stronger, more athletic, look leaner, got back to prime form/performance etc. You know the reasons that they got TRT to begin with!
Who the fuck cares if TRT may be bad for hair loss? -testosterone related hair loss happens to men that never bother with T boosters or treatment and in your 40s or 50s who cares about that compared to still listing or playing sports like you're 30?!
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
I'd sooner have a few years less life due to testosterone than be as physically weak as most women are. Even the ones I see down the gym seem to have little more strength than I did when I was maybe 12 or 13. I can't imagine being that feeble all your life.
Interesting recent news article about treating prostate cancer by 'cycling' testosterone levels
"I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
Hi, I'm a big fan, but what is a sitzpinkler? It sounds gay and German. Also, your exclamation mark placement is brilliant. I love your work. Keep it up.
One of the reasons I would take testosterone is to stop crying so damn much while watching movies. I mean to get rid of all the dog-gone dust in the room, yeah, that's whats doing it. I'm really sensitive to dust now that I'm over 50.
Part of the problem with TRT is the definition of low tester one is somewhat nebulous. I am not sure there has been a lab range accepted age-adjusted testosterone levels. Typically the most commonly accepted medical reason is when a man comes in with a non-typical fracture (hip, vertebral body etc...) then we tend to look at testosterone levels.
Other than that...indications for use are sketchy.
In addition, anyone who has been around and doesn't have an agenda or bias would be wise to remember the fiasco with ERT in women. Made them feel good, but ended up being more harm than benefit. It is likely, outside of a few indications, that TRT will end up being the same.
Argh. The laws of science be a harsh mistress.
http://www.urbandictionary.com... I had to look it up.
On y va, qui mal y pense!
I always trust JAMMA docs when getting wirey with my joy stick. :-)
RRK
The heading describes little benefits of testosterone, but then the body only lists one little benefit: it helps with pathological hypogonadism. What are the other little benefits testosterone supplementation offers?
The studies were conducted by military doctors in a MASH unit, but it was more than just lining up field personnel to give them so-called malaria vaccine or STD protection (penis-sealin' as the privates continued testing their privates on the unsuspectin' infectin' whores)
The Rolling Stones were visiting, and one of the surgeons concocted this scheme just to get a private performance of Mick and the band in the MASH unit "to lift the morale" of the wounded.
The Stones were knocked unconscious and the testosterone shots were administered, with their consent and the patients being witnesses. The Stones were going to go public with these unofficial tests. Unfortunately Altamonte happened, and the rest is history. When they tried revealing the test results, it was drowned out by the media wildfire from Hells Angels at Altamonte.
You can make this shit up.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
The government should weaponize estrogen and use it on the Islamic State.
My testosterone levels usually run froms the low to high 200s, which is on the border of a normal range. I have always had trouble building any sort of muscle mass. I tried hormone replacement therapy a few years ago and stopped because I didn't find it very helpful. A few of my observations:
1. I pretty quickly got stronger, the weights in the gym did get lighter. It was a weird experience, but I didn't notice my muscles getting larger.
2. Whatever modest improvement in sexual performance was offset by greater expectation. Overall it didn't improve my satisfaction.
3. It gave my skin a more red tone (doctor said because it increases red blood cells)
4. It caused me to sleep more but did not improve my energy level. (It can make sleep apnea worse)
5. It did not improve my mood, I am prone to be a little on the depressed side and it did not help.
I suspect that if you level is really low like well below 200 then you are probably solving a problem that will cause you to notice benefits. Otherwise it probably won't help.
And we need serious study of aging as well. What properties of living cells are the features of "aging" anyhow? Atoms are ageless, aging is like saying that this copy of the integer"67" is somehow different than this other integer "67"... It makes no sense.
And if aging is just about damage to information... how come two adults can make a zero year old baby?
There are more questions than answers right now in medicine and biology.
All I can say is duh at the results of the study. Most doctors, who are not endocrinologists, don't understand that the the androgen cycle is a negative feedback loop. That means that if you are a heathy adult on TRT your body will compensate for the extra testosterone in your body by producing less testosterone in your gonads. Any endocrinologist worth their salt knows this. This is why you never take TRT if you are trying to have children, because TRT can make you sterile by halting testosterone production in the gonads. You need to take clomid instead of TRT if you want to get around this negative feedback cycle.
Did they remove any of the Phytoestrogens in their diet. Probably not. Age related low-T that is bunk. Fix their diet then try adding 'T'. I hate the BS studies.
...that studies are invariably wrong. Until another study shows that the "wrong" study was actually correct.
They want to keep you at the absolute minimum T they can get away with while supplementing with T... Even if the range says 320-950, they'll aim for the 80 year old level of 350. That just doesnt work, I've seen so many hard headed doctors that dont listen, you tell them, I still dont feel good at all and they're reply is, you're now in the normal range. Yes.. for a 80 year old sick man I am.. but I'm 35.
Oh as a side note, when I started to learn more about the whole T thing, I was able to question some of the doctors on their calls and the answers were shocking.. They would reply, this is not my specialty so I have to go by the numbers.. wth? By this definition, I could pilot the space shuttle by just reading the book on how to fly it.
When I finally found a knowledgeable doctor and got proper treatment, I saw a huge difference in how I felt, I'm thinking is clearer, motivated, I have energy.. etc.
So from my own experience, this study is pure garbage.. Educate the doctors properly and the patients will feel a whole lot better.
A long history of not working particularly well. And testosterone hacking is the grand-daddy of them all. You know all those steampunk-y horror stories about rich Victorian eccentrics who go mad because they implanted monkey testicles into themselves in a bid to achieve eternal youth? People actually did that.
There's a thin line... or rather let's say a fork in the road between pseudoscience and science. I think they both start in the same, non-scientific place. And that place is a kind of magical thinking. It's what happens after the initial inspiration that makes the difference between science and pseudoscience.
Testosterone is higher in men than women, an in particular higher in young men, and higher in men who achieve social dominance. It also rises after sexual intercourse. So by magical thinking testosterone must be the "manliness" hormone; it makes you young, vigorous, dominant and sexually potent.
There's nothing wrong with that as a starting point, but in the long history of testosterone hacking it hasn't worked out, except for gaining muscle mass in conjunction with resistance training. Sure if you treat men with a testosterone blocker they'll eventually lose interest in sex, men generally have less sex as they get older, and at the same time their testosterone levels decrease. So it's natural to jump to the conclusion of a chain of causality: worn out old glands put out less testosterone, and that causes a reduction in interest in sex. But if you actually test that hypothesis, it doesn't work out: individuals with least decline in testosterone levels actually have less sex than their normal counterparts. The normal decline isn't large enough to produce on its own any measurable effect in interest in sex. So if your interest in sex is dropping as you get older, look elsewhere for the cause.
This is the danger of calling testosterone "the male sex hormone", as if God had a punch list of features He wanted and implemented each feature with a single steroid compound that works in isolation from everything else. Yes, testosterone is involved in masculinization of adolescents, but it's not as simple as the more testosterone you are, the more male you are. The endocrine system is complex and dynamic, responding to internal and external changes -- including aging. Both men and women have and need testosterone and estrogen, in ways we don't fully understand yet.
If you want to get the most out of your life, eat a variety of real food in moderation, exercise, sleep, and in general alternate stress with rest. The ancient Greeks could have told you that, and in thousands of years we have not been able yet to improve on that as far as lifestyle advice is concerned. Go to your doctor if you're sick or injured, or even for a testosterone treatement if you have abnormally low testosterone for your age. But don't go to the doctor for a magic pill that will make you youthful, manly, sexy and dynamic. All that's up to you.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Bourbon is a much better solution, and readily available.
Few benefits. Or little benefit.
As always, "Scientists" only report what their masters agendas are
The study did initial blood work screens for participants. The data showed ~100 had anemia, which might have been a symptom of a serious condition such as colo-rectal cancer. Medical norms REQUIRE notification of the patient so that they can get follow up care. The doctors leading the study didn't do that. It wasn't until they'd submitted the paper and one of the reviewers spotted the ethical lapse that they corrected it. I think (not sure here) that was years later. The test protocol (which SHOULD have included notification procedures for suspicious or problematic test results) was vetted by 12, yes 12, different institutions' ethics boards/committees and was "overseen" by an independent "ethics and safety" company. There was a systematic failure here, not only at the level of the dozens of doctors involved, but at several levels of institutional oversight. The way NPR tells it, a reviewer flagged the blood work and when one of the study authors got the feed-back, he said "oh, shit!". Stuff happens, but the scope of the failures here are really astonishing.
ibid