Slashdot Mirror


Google Releases an AI Tool For Publishers To Spot and Weed Out Toxic Comments (bbc.com)

Google today launched a new technology to help news organizations and online platforms identify and swiftly remove abusive comments on their websites. The technology, called Perspective, will review comments and score them based on how similar they are to comments people said were "toxic" or likely to make them leave a conversation. From a report on BBC: The search giant has developed something called Perspective, which it describes as a technology that uses machine learning to identify problematic comments. The software has been developed by Jigsaw, a division of Google with a mission to tackle online security dangers such as extremism and cyberbullying. The system learns by seeing how thousands of online conversations have been moderated and then scores new comments by assessing how "toxic" they are and whether similar language had led other people to leave conversations. What it's doing is trying to improve the quality of debate and make sure people aren't put off from joining in.

24 of 195 comments (clear)

  1. Good news! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    So all those posts from SJWs can easily be removed. I'm a fan of this.

    1. Re:Good news! by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah right.

      an individualist who is for the free-market == right wing.
      right wing == fascists
      therefore anyone not for the progressive economic prescription of the day is a fascist

      since fascists are evil and not worthy of being listened to and deserve physical violence
      therefore anyone who is not a progressive deserves to be ignored and physically assaulted.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    2. Re:Good news! by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. Not all liberals. Of course not.

      I'm a live-and-let-live libertarian and have been met with real hostility and been called a fascist for simple pro free-market arguments.

      I have been yelled at for not considering Trump to be an Nazi.

      I didn't vote for trump. I did not support him. I disagree with him on many, many things, But, for instance, wanting to control borders and limit immigration is not equal to being a fascist.

      There is a real culture of intolerance on the left. Look at the riots over Milo. Don't like Milo? Don't go. Don't like Angela Davis. Don't go. But rioting over a talk.
      GTFOH (not referring to you)

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
  2. "Toxic" comments huh? by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, let's all bow down the moral arbiters of justice then. I'm sure that they'll be right on top of removing speech they disagree with. Then moving onto the useful idiots that cheered this on in the first place.

    If you're willing to remove some speech because it makes you upset, there's nothing stopping others from doing the same to you later.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
    1. Re:"Toxic" comments huh? by Mashiki · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah here's the problem. Let's look at a site like neogaf, ever wonder why at one time it was the place to go and developers would post there and people would leak information. And now developers don't? Active participation is down? It was the moderation as you pointed out, but let's look at their definition of a troll, which basically boils down to "anyone who doesn't subscribe to the narrative." Let's look now, at what will get you banned. Have a contrary view of feminism? Banned. Support some ideas of a MRA? Banned. Have differing view points on global warming? Banned. Prefer the xbox vs playstation? Likely banned. Don't like your vidya characters to look like they were hit with a bat? Banned.

      The problem is in many cases, moderators especially in this day and age use that as a form of power projection. A good example of this is /r/politics or /r/canadapolitics where you have moderators who ban people for pointing out factual information because it goes against the prevailing group think. Have a nice article about how forums become infiltrated by people pushing authoritarian viewpoints.

      I ran a BBS in my teens, and it got large enough that I was considering applying for a regional fido:net hub. At nearly 700 people and 4 nodes, I picked moderators for my forums who weren't assholes, who usually worked, and if they stepped over the line they were given one warning then booted. As sysop, I expected my mods to be impartial. And if a friend was involved to pass the issue to another mod to deal with. I ran on Renegade.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:"Toxic" comments huh? by johanw · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Posts are not removed, only given score. I can even conveniently select I want to see all posts, even those who are modded down. Having this treshold set to -1 shows my "trust" in the moderation process.

    3. Re:"Toxic" comments huh? by Kierthos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      First, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

      Second, all sides (liberals, conservatives, moderates) have trolls and jerks among them.

      Third, if it's a forum run by a non-government source, the First Amendment doesn't apply. They don't have to let someone (or anyone for that matter) use their forum. Especially if they break the rules of the forum.

      Fourth, there is a difference between open debate and toxic posting. I fully believe in open debate. You might not change my mind on a topic, but I welcome an honest and open debate. But some people don't want to debate. They want to shout down, or harass, or whatever. And unless you have a crack moderator staff, you can't always keep on top of this sort of thing, especially if it's a large/popular forum.

      I speak from some experience on both sides of this. Some years ago, I was a moderator on an MMO forum for Dark Age of Camelot. It wasn't a forum run by the company that made DAOC, it was a fan forum. I ended up as a moderator (much to my surprise) for regularly giving helpful information and trying to be a good guy. While I was a moderator, we had to put people in various lengths of "time out" for being jerks, or abusing the forum rules, or spamming, or whatever.

      Shockingly, the moderators weren't always the most popular people with the friends of the trolls.

      On the other side of the fence, there was (possibly still is) a forum for a group called Christian Exodus. Among their stated goals is (as a last resort), the idea of moving enough followers to a specific U.S. state (South Carolina), to try and influence enough elections and legislators to make it a more Christian state. Actually, their absolute last resort was to have SC secede from the U.S.

      I was banned from their forums because I would do things like remind them that the last time that SC seceded, it didn't go all that well, or remind them that there's more than one version of the Bible (they were very focused on returning to doing _exactly_ what the Bible said), and so on. I was enjoying myself, but I can't really say it came as a shock when I was banned from posting on their forum.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    4. Re:"Toxic" comments huh? by lucasnate1 · · Score: 2

      There are ways to express contrary views that doesn't involve threats and bullying.

      Funny, because I heard from many people that there are ideas that should never be expressed. Leftists told me that any research that shows a difference in mental capacity between people of different genetics should be forbidden even if truth, rightists (I'm Israeli) told me that any research that shows that there is no single jewish ethnicity is antisemitic and therefore automatically forbidden. Was there ever any time in history where your quote above was actually correctly?

    5. Re:"Toxic" comments huh? by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      Guess you haven't kept up with what's been going on for the last ~10 years. Because the old definition of trolling has long gone out the window, and trolling is basically considered "anyone who disagrees with me" or "has a viewpoint contrary to my world view." You enjoying the era where social justice reinvents something or changes the definitions of words in order to self-victimize yet?

      It's kinda like the casual use of sexism, or racism. As a response to anything, especially by those who are heavily into identity politics.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  3. Awesome by admin7087 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Great for our echo chambers, so we can hear more from people whose opinions we already have. What could go wrong with that? /s

  4. It can't work. by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2

    >The technology, called Perspective, will review comments and score them based on how similar they are to comments people said were "toxic" or likely to make them leave a conversation.

    Experience shows that toxic comments encourage participation as they simultaneously reduce participant satisfaction.

    You want customers hitting F5 and (hopefully) seeing more ads on your site? Get people's egos involved and get them competing and hating on each other.

  5. The sign of our times: Censorship-Supression City by adosch · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can't speak for everyone else, but all this AI, machine learning, heavy algorithm, neural network, data mining that's been going on for well over a decade now and has become almost normal in terms of tech news conversation is really scary as hell.

    For starters, the claim to the quote/unquote "internet" and plaguing social media is it's given absolutely everyone a platform to opinion-ate, alienate, berate, tolerate and flat out hate anyone, any topic, any agenda, any other opinion, idea, thought, preference, look, feel, ect. Let's face it: all that in itself alone as opened pandora's box to a metric shit-ton of people who flat out should not be sharing anything that bubbles in their skull. So now we all sit here with big thumb-tapping or keyboard-clacking loud mouths who can't act appropriately in a digital world.

    But I have to say, when the hell did everyone become a bunch of sensitive sally's in terms of taking everything at face value, and buying into some internet handles drivel (or lack there of), hate speech. Look at slashdot and the anonymous coward approach? Hell at least we provide anonymity and low rank to toxic troll garbage here.

    All that aside, we don't 'remove' it, cover it up and scrub it away because everyone likes to wave the I-am-offended-all-the-time flag. It becomes part of the culture, ambiance (if you laugh it it, I guess) and overall conversation. We don't un-ring bells, do we? I don't see how that's any different digitally.

  6. By whom? For what exactly? by s.petry · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Who will be filing the most complaints? The people with money to pay astroturfers and sockpuppets? That is what we have everywhere else, so why would Google's app be any different?

    What will the complaints be about? Same thing we see everywhere else, which is anything not pro communist/extreme leftist?

    This is a promotion of fascism, not freedom.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  7. Re:Donald Trump? by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This might be new to you, but the left have been pushing for speech controls for years at google. It's not Trump, it's not those on the right. The right are the ones defending free speech, and it's the left who are trying to censor it. Whether it be no-platforming, violent assaults on people, using bomb threats or other tactics to shut down venues. The social justice brigade has been doing this for a long time, it's why github is such a steaming pile of shit now. You can see this when companies start instituting "codes of conduct" which push race/sexuality/etc instead of skill/ability as a core value. That garbage is a antithesis to a meritocracy.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
  8. How this will kill Truth. by geekmux · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you have a troll problem, then moderate properly by banning. Censorship is not the answer because truth will ultimately suffer.

    The definition of toxic will never be a constant, and I can already seen forums looking for revenue streams to favor those paying for certain "filters".

  9. Re:Of course by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's not some government control, and it's not something you can't already do on your own.

    The issue of "government control" is moot when the companies that control the government also own the social media platforms. See my .sig.

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  10. Solves the WRONG problem by DickBreath · · Score: 4, Funny

    This solves entirely the WRONG problem.

    What is needed is an AI that deletes all first posts. Think about how wonderful that would be. It would work, methodically, persistently and tirelessly no matter how many times a first post is submitted. No matter who submits it. No matter how many people try to get the first post.

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  11. Re: Mod parent down (or up as per bias) by mellon · · Score: 2

    If you think OP is saying up is down, you haven't been paying attention. Or you're not old. Believe me, as a 52-year-old, Hillary looked like a Republican from my yoot, complete with the careful not-talking-about stuff that is uncomfortable. I still voted for her, because better a 1970's republican than a whack job, but let's be honest about who we're electing.

  12. Re:The sign of our times: Censorship-Supression Ci by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

    It's about finding an appropriate place to shitpost. That place is 4chan, and the many other shitposting speciality sites.

    On the other hand you have sites like Github, which are about collaborating to write software. They probably don't want too much trolling. Needs to be mostly safe-for-work because their business model requires it. So they have an interest in nuking toxic users.

    Feel free to argue that Github should change policy, or start your own version (didn't 4chan try that?) and see if it becomes popular. The point is that not every platform has to be an unlimited say-whatever-you-like free speech platform. It's legitimate to require people not to scream profanity in your restaurant, or on your web site if that's what you really want.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  13. Re:Donald Trump? by Mashiki · · Score: 2

    The reality is, if someone considers my comment "toxic" because it hurts their feelings. They probably need to spend some time outside of their social bubbles and realize that the world isn't a happy place where people give you what you want if you cry loud enough. The sad thing is, it *is* the left(not all of it), that are pro-censorship and anti-free speech. It's the same situation that we saw back in the 80's and 90's. Remember? When you had the religious nuts holding power in quite a few places, claiming that video games are gonna make mass murders. D&D will make you summon demons. Those things that happened all those years ago. Then there was a very subtle change in the 90's as those on the left started taking up those mantles themselves. Note tipper gore, hillary clinton, joe liberman and so on. Who said videogames will make murders, censoring TV is right, banning some types of music is proper. The last 20 years have shown that the left were happy to take up that mantle. You've got an entire generation of students in universities that believe that "those old people trying to censor things" were right. In Europe, you've got politicians who are trying to hold onto their political power by censoring. Elitists in universities doing the same.

    The left currently has an authoritarian and extremism problem. Pretending it doesn't exist, will do nothing to help either side or anyone at all. And the political spectrum right now is in a fundamental shift. People on the left and right are becoming more libertarian, and there is a large segment of the left and a small segment on the right that's shifting to authoritarian. But as it stands right now? The problem is mainly on the left. Check your local university, see how much anti-free speech and pro-censorship policies have been put into place in the last decade to protect peoples feelings. How words have been twisted, where the label troll/racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/etc has become "anyone who disagrees with my point of view."

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
  14. Re:Censorship made easy by micahraleigh · · Score: 2

    Huh? How would Eric Schmit -the IT directory for Hillary Clinton's election campaign- allow any kind of politically motivated censorship?

  15. Censorship is NEVER a good answer. by JustNiz · · Score: 2

    This tool sounds like every PeeCee SJW's wet dream.

  16. Re:Donald Trump? by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

    I think most people would consider that a toxic point of view to express

    Depends on whether you're advocating for the exclusion of white people.

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  17. "Toxic" gives it away by AbRASiON · · Score: 2

    I'm just going to say it... "Toxic" is a social justice flag word. Like over use of "gross" or "icky" or referring to people as babies "shitlords" "edgelords" or "shitbirds" and so on.

    Now that we've established potential bias here, we need to define "Toxic"? Is that simply not agreeing with the status quo? Is an opposing opinion debating a topic deemed "Toxic"?