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New Zealand Will Give You a Free Trip If You Agree To a Job Interview (esquire.com)
An anonymous reader shares an Esquire article: If New Zealand is on your bucket list, it's time to fill out a job application. You see, the tech industry in Wellington, New Zealand is trying to recruit experts from around the world to their community, so they're offering a free trip if you can prove you want the job and deserve an interview. They're calling it a "global talent attraction program" and 100 potential recruits will be invited on the free (yes, free) week-long trip. But, of course, the catch is you have to prove why you could serve as a software developer, creative director, product manager, analyst or digital strategist to get a free ticket. Once you do, your itinerary will be filled with interviews and meetings with others in the New Zealand tech community members, as well as excursions around Wellington.
So unless you're at least somewhat famous in the tech community, no dice.
if you looking for new pastures and in that industry not a bad deal.
Great, hire all the programmers, but what about the folks who build the series of tubes that these hobbit loving keyboard warriors mash their face on with their LOLCats code? You need those folks too.
Let's talk brass tacks here: What's the fastest internet speed I can get for my house there in NZ and how much does it cost per month? This is what matters.
Wheel of Time: Book by Book and Sumview (summary review) Bigdady92 style: http://bigdady92.blogspot.com/
I lived there for 2 years - it was a waste of time.
You'll be a paid in NZ Dollars, (currently US$0.71) and a lower amount than if you were working in the USA, Australia or Canada.
Wellington weather is windy as f*ck and always raining.
If you're lucky you'll get a few sunny weeks during Summer, if the wind and the freezing water doesn't get to you, the sunburn will.
Any major city in the world will have more business opportunities than Wellington, the population is so small.
There's much better opportunities available elsewhere.
Imagine that, Americans stealing other people's jobs
Not only that, but the economy is government heavy and doesn't pay their own people very well, which is why they have to beg young American doctors to work (that's how/why my newly-minted psychiatrist cousin lived there for 6 months).
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
We should go to the American People's Bitch State of New Zealand?
It may just be me, but I wouldn't want to work anywhere that sees to glorify in following all of the worst examples from America, and deporting people there, even when charges are obviously being perjured to make an example out of someone, but may I am unique in feeling that way.
Not only do I have those qualifications, but I'm 5' 7"; meaning, the next time Peter Jackson comes looking for folks to play Hobits, I'm there baby!
So, I'll be helping the economy TWO FOLD! Tech AND Movie!!
I'll do anything as long as it includes a trip to the site where Peter Jackson built the Hobbit town.
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
Yeah... go ahead and scare away the competition. Every hobbit keyboard masher you scare away is one less contender for you to have to compete with :)
Like one of those "Come here and we'll offer you a high-stress job for well below the going rate because you don't know what cost-of-living is out here!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Houses and cost of living is cheap, gigabit fibre is available to most of the country. Heaps of amazing countryside within a few hours drive.
On the other hand Wellington has pretty horrible weather and you will be paid much less that you would in America for the same work, but the lower costs may balance that out.
Good sailing though. That small island supplies a lot of America's Cup yacht racers, although the teams are muddled now that essentially anybody is allowed to sail under any country's flag.
No electrical? Mechanical? Good luck with your virtual economy when the energy runs out.
But if you love English weather (because just like home!) and still would like to have an easy access to Asian and Australian markets and attractions, what would be a better place? NZ should be able to lure at least few British and Anglo-maniacs with this offer.
It doesn't look like NZ is any cheaper than the US (other than rent), and the average pay is less. So it'd have to be a win for the location, not for financial reasons.
CoL: US vs. NZ
For much of the US, the biggest win appears to be a reduction in pollution.
QoL: Sacramento vs. Wellington
Salaries are *low* in NZ.
The had a lot of socialism, and the resultant lack of economic growth shows in comparison to other countries.
It's ironic they're paying for people to come over when they have a points based immigration system which stops people from coming over.
In fact, people are like capital or knowledge - they are a resource. The more you have, the better your economy does, and the more jobs are available.
All countries, with their controls on immigration, and doing something completely insane from an economics POV.
What if I'm not really talented but I want the free trip?
- Homer J. Simpson
P.S. I've been to the moon
I feel like if they are desperate enough to fly you out to NZ for a job interview and show you around for a week, that it would defeat the purpose to get to the salary negotiation part of it and skimp on the dollars there. Cost of living in NZ is quite reasonable. So yeah, if you're constantly thinking of your pay in terms of "what would this buy me if I converted it back to my home currency and spent it at home", then it may seem like a bad deal. But you wouldn't do this purely to bring money home - you'd be spending it locally and enjoying the lifestyle.
I agree with you on the weather - I actually quite like COLD weather, but the constant wind in Wellington is irritating and makes even mild days feel colder than they are on paper. Having said that, NZ has plenty of beautiful countryside and scenery, and Wellington itself is quite a fun town. Three hour flight from warm beaches and bigger cities in Australia too (Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane).
The food and grocery stores are crap too. No one from large developed continental cities ever considers that kind of thing of thing but they really notice when they go somewhere with limited selection and human monoculture. I had a friend who didn't stay very long in NZ for exactly this reason.
Yeah! ...and it is illegal to have a private garden. Kiss "Goodbye" to your geraniums if you move here.
and still would like to have an easy access to Asian and Australian markets and attractions,
What makes "Asia" any easier to get to from NZ than anywhere else? Aukland-Bangkok is still a 12 hour flight. It's actually less flying time to Santiago, Chile than Bangkok. Once you're at the 12 hour flight duration, you might as well say anywhere is close to anywhere so long as you have access to an international airport.
My impression is that while New Zealand is has stunning scenery, the people I've met that have been there or live there say it's astonishingly expensive because almost everything has to be imported and the taxes are high. And you're a zillion miles from everywhere except Australia, which I will grant may be a reason to live there.
Yeah! ...and don't forget the earthquakes! Shake, roll and rattle | When you live in the Capital (that *almost* rhymes)
I live in NZ, just in Auckland - but I did live just outside of Wellington for part of my childhood. It's rare to see these kinds of comments about living in NZ, but I have seen them, and like the others I've read I have to say I think you may have come with the wrong expectations.
If you come here expecting that you'll have beautiful weather every day and otherwise it'll be just like back home - payscales and all, you'll be disappointed. It's a place like many others on earth rather than some ethereal wonderland, with advantages and disadvantages. It's not the kind of place where you go and work for big bucks for a short time and then return home with your riches. If you're realistic, recognise that it's somewhat isolated with a small population and therefore the economy is different and some things aren't as easy to find or are more expensive (though nowhere near like it was in the '80s when my family moved here) you can have a very comfortable life. That's completely ignoring the beautiful and varied landscape, outdoor opportunities, etc. - all of that you have heard about is true. Given the choice I wouldn't live anywhere else - and I recently returned here from London, by choice.
Besides, Wellington is famous for its windy weather, so you could definitely have known about that in advance ;)
Does this mean 100 tech experts will be extradited to the us as well.
Whatever you think about kim dot com (stupid name) he did prove that New Zealand will do anything for the US.
I've lived in wellington for 20 years.
Wellington has an excess of I.T. people, but are unable to get jobs due to a screwed up government system or an unwillingness to pay a decent amount.
It already imports a significant number of indians for government jobs pushing out New Zealanders, as they are cheaper (at least through some creative accounting. They don't get paid heaps but thier contracting agencys do).
Also, we don't have enough houses to put everyone in. House and rent prices are going through the roof with no relief in sight.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/89933065/rental-crisis-deepens-as-mt-cook-flat-viewing-attracts-more-than-40-people
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2017/02/hot-property-wellington-house-values-up-21-percent-in-2016.html
What idiot came up with this plan?
It's a very short list of astronauts still around that have walked on the moon. Although amazingly most of you guys live into your 80's, I'm guessing being fit your entire life helps with that.
I kind of wished at least one of you guys would have ran for President.
But if you love English weather (because just like home!) and still would like to have an easy access to Asian and Australian markets and attractions, what would be a better place? NZ should be able to lure at least few British and Anglo-maniacs with this offer.
NZ is a lot like England culturally, but larger (the size of Colorado), much less populated (4 million vs 65 million), and with better weather and more spectacular scenery. It abounds in species that are too ludicrous even for Australia (the three-eyed lizard, the parrot that collects windshield wipers, the earthworm that glows in the dark, the giant crickets) but while in Australia everything is poisonous, in NZ nothing is poisonous.
~5$ US for a gal of gas (measured there in liters of course). ~2300 US for a *nice* 900sqft apartment in the city. ~1286$ US for a normal 900sqft apt. This is crazy high. 1000 US for a normal studio...
http://www.garden-nz.co.nz/
illegal to have a private garden.????
Since when Hoss?, every second person here has a garden
If you come here expecting that you'll have beautiful weather every day and otherwise it'll be just like back home - payscales and all, you'll be disappointed.
Besides, Wellington is famous for its windy weather, so you could definitely have known about that in advance ;)
Sounds like Exmoor, but without the Beast.
Yes, but it's a great place to hide out if World War III breaks out.
I'm a Yank software engineer who is deciding between New Zeland and Netherlands for immigration. I just returned from spending a few weeks in New Zealand, mainly in Wellington. The technology buzz of Wellington is very real, with lots of startups and a slew of opportunities in the local industry (government).
Weather was similar to what I experience in the Pacific Northwest.
Most importantly, the people are smart, decent, and welcoming. And they don't vote for far-right cretins. And when the United States sinks its economy, NZ will still be chugging along.
Cost of living in NZ is quite reasonable.
Said no one, ever. My distant cousin is the nearly the top surgeon in the country and didn't want to eat out because it's "too expensive". And while they had a nice house, it wasn't anywhere near what I would expect from the top surgeon in a US state.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
Your last sentence is probably true. Income inequality especially in healthcare isn't nearly as high is in the USA.
Your second sentence doesn't make sense to me unless your distant cousin is just ridiculously frugal. Lots of middle-class NZers eat out very frequently.
It is expensive because of imports, but taxes are actually not high. Top income tax rate is 33%, and there's a 12.5% sales tax on almost all goods. (There are no states, therefore no state taxes.) That's significantly lower than the USA especially if you live in a high-tax state like California.
Dude
You have a mild maritime or marine climate. Windy or not you do not know the definition of bad weather. In my lifetime I have lived in Las Vegas as well as Alaska and Florida.
You know that feeling of sticking a hair dryer to your head at the salon? We call that walking outside in Las Vegas in the summer on a nice 112 degree or over 40 if you use Celsius. Now, it gets worse have you imaged what it's like to walk in -40? I do not even have to convert as -40 is the same at both scales (learn something new everyday). All dead and snow and ice for months at a time!
Maritime climates like New Zealand, UK, and Seattle are nice. North New Zealand is subtropical too and close to Wellington. The mild winters or non existent damp ones with a little wind is Paradise if you ask a Yankee who is not from Pacific Northwest
http://saveie6.com/
It's true that you don't come to New Zealand to maximise earnings. People tend to come here for other reasons, mainly lifestyle.
The weather in Wellington is terrible. Auckland's a lot better.
I once met an American neurologist who moved to NZ. She was earning less than half of what she'd been earning in the USA, but was much happier because the healthcare system here is better organised.
A small number of people have high-paying jobs in NZ that pay commensurately with what they'd get overseas. They tend to work remotely on something very specialized where they're practically irreplaceable.
For us liberals who are terrified of Trump it sounds like paradise! I lived in Alaska and miss the nature and beauty but hated the long winters. New Zealand is a rival as that and Antarctica rival the top 3 most amazing places
http://saveie6.com/
Thanks for the insight. I know someone who moved to Auckland from the UK. He said that it's a slower pace of life, good standard of living with large houses (by UK standards) and quality healthcare.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
No, the radiation makes it to the southern hemisphere eventually.
It makes for a miserable 12 months, waiting for certain death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I emigrated from the UK about 4 years ago. I was born in the North West but studied and subsequently lived in Cambridge - ostensibly a beautiful, historic city, in the South East with good weather compared to the national average, a very diverse and liberal outlook and endless opportunities in the tech sector. I worked for Acorn in my first job - that same Acorn who spun out ARM, albeit before I joined.
In comparison, Wellington is architecturally often ugly, but also sometimes very architecturally special. The hills and green spaces are outstanding. Public spaces and services are comparatively well maintained and curated. Having sea around so many areas due to the complex coastline is awesome and there are numerous beaches within walking distance, or a short bus or car ride. Speaking of buses, they're great - nothing like the disaster in Cambridge. Traffic gets bad, but it's practically empty compared to the UK. Lots of unique houses and apartments rather than grim mass-produced housing estates; not cheap in these boom times, but still great value compared to Cambridge, even in the CBD. The weather is for sure very windy - one of the windiest cities on Earth - and it can spoil a warm day, but it also means pollution levels are spectacularly low (even though it's not all that bad to start with on a still day) and at times it's just amazing, energising and dramatic as the entire landscape goes into motion.
Of course it rains, like anywhere; but compared to Manchester UK or Auckland the average rain days per year is, surprisingly, the same. Compared to Cambridge it is temperate - not as hot in summer, nor as cold in winter (rarely below freezing) - suits me very well. North West birthright in the blood I guess. The sun when it's there is amazing, but yes, wear good sunscreen - as you should do anywhere, sunburn or not. Thanks to the specific latitude of NZ and atmospheric filtering the light quality countrywide is spectacular with many days looking like real life has turned the saturation dial "up to 11". NZ really can put on just the most spectacular light shows for dawn or dusk. Flora and fauna are unique and beautiful, the population laid back and sociopolitically engaged, the coffee just about the best in the world, the food not far behind and the on-your-doorstep travel opportunities both up in the North Island, drive-on-drive-off to the South Island via ferry, are amazing. It's up there with world leader in renewable energy, one of the best wine producing countries in the world, organic/biogrow (for the sake of the environment, not because "it's healthier") is strong and well applied, "buy local" is easy and diverse... Just incredible for such a small country population. It really, really punches above its weight.
If you love the USA, don't move. But the UK got Brexit and May; you got Trump and Brannon; I got a great deal of unfortunate separation from old friends and family in the UK and that hurts, but I traded it for modern, progressive politics (as much as one can really hope for) with mixed-member proportional rep., a truly stunning city, great new friends and a wealth of opportunities I'd never have had in the UK, a wonderful husband and a kick-ass 1900-1909 two storey villa just 20 minutes walk or less than 10 minutes bus from the CBD. Post-brexit, the NZD pay actually now exceeds the best I ever got in the UK too, thanks to the GBP being devalued so far.
I've never looked back. If you're a strong, competent software engineer that wants to try a few years of something refreshing and new, without much of the heavy cynicism and corruption of "the traditional West" - of course it's there, this place is far, far from perfect, but it's far less invasive or pervasive - then a free pass to Wellington is an astonishing gift. Do it!
No. That particular silliness should perhaps remain on Reddit.
We do have one somewhat poisonous spider, though it's endangered and no one has died from it for over 100 years.
Yes please, bring it on! :)
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.
No, you're not.
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.
Sounds perfect for me. I've been looking for a place with high tech jobs and good windsurfing and kiteboarding. Last time I checked, tough, NZ didn't have any chip design jobs.
You'll be a paid in NZ Dollars, (currently US$0.71)
News flash: sovereign countries have their own currencies.
and a lower amount than if you were working in the USA, Australia or Canada.
This is completely meaningless without an idea of the general level of prices. There are places where you can live like a king on an average Western salary. I'm guessing your idea of an opportunity is amassing a pile of money in a short time and returning home, instead of actually living out there in the world.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Actually our sales tax is 15% on both goods and services.
.
.
.
.
However on the plus side, for consumers prices MUST be advertised/displayed tax inclusive, what you see is what you pay..
Healthcare is universal, you are not shelling out $$ on health insurance, and the health outcomes are pretty much the same as a the US..
We have almost no import tariffs , but if you bring in something over NZ$400-600 you can be asked to pay sales tax (15%) on it..
In most metrics (Welfare, health, education, freedom of speech, democracy, corruption, etc etc etc) New Zealand ranks highly, and sporting wise we do exceptionally well given our (relatively) low population (less than 5 million)..
I had the idea of creating a cloud service to store data for users all over the world.
Do you think I should try it on NZ?
It seems such a nice idea, what could go wrong?
Oh, and if you are bringing up kid
1. We dont have metal detectors on our school doors, there is no need
2. We don't have school shootings, mall shootings etc
3. There are huge opportunities for outdoor activities
4. Its and easy country to get around in
5. Education system is one of the best in the world
6. No one has ever gone bankrupt through medical bills, we have universal healthcare that works quite well.
Weta workshops functions extremely well in Wellington
Here is a hint. It is very likely they are specifically not after greedy arseholes who will leave the very second another company offers more. They are offering employment to sound sensible people who want quality of life and a job ie work to live not the fucking bullshit of live to work. PS quality of life is not about being some dick, douche bag, poseur.
Now they are not the most professional or the smartest, otherwise they would have offered a family trip because the 'head'(well, pretend) of that family would have been their best target because they have the greatest motivation for quality of life.
The smart and somewhat cheeky move would to target the other half of the parenting team via quality of life for the children (certain magazines fit that bill, the ad coupled with local nastiness in that targeted advertising for employees zone).
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Places I've interviewed with always pay the travel costs for the interview. At my current employer we regularly interview people from around the world and paying the costs is a given. If the NZ tech companies have not been paying it so far then no wonder they can't attract people from abroad.
With that said, NZ is fairly high on my list of places I could accept living in. Not exciting, but comfortable and pleasant.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Maybe not enough of them are eaten
Nullius in verba
Top income tax rate is 33%, and there's a 12.5% sales tax on almost all goods. (There are no states, therefore no state taxes.) That's significantly lower than the USA especially if you live in a high-tax state like California.
I wouldn't say "significantly lower." Top income tax rate in California (state and federal combined) is around 39 percent, but that's for the top 1 percent of earners. Sales tax varies by location but the state base rate is 7.5 percent and in San Francisco (a very expensive place to live) it's 8.75 percent.
Breakfast served all day!
I used to live in the wellington region - Upper Hutt which is about a 45 minute commute and the weather is much nicer up the valley - less windy.
Wellington itself is an awesome little city - population is about 400,000
I love that an uber is only $10 from the airport into the CBD
If you want internet, you can get a 100mbit fiber to the home connection almost everywhere in wellington for about USD$75 a month or gigabit for $100
Wellington isnt like auckland- housing is not as expensive. And you can fly to all other regions of NZ such as queenstown if you want to go for a day or a weekend of skiing. There is heaps to do in the city itself.
The healthcare system is one of the best in the world in terms of quality of life- its a mostly tax based system that works for everyone
Taxes in general are not very high - 18-33% depending upon your income. Most are close to the 18% bracket. Sales tax is 15% though all prices for consumer purchase are advertised as tax inclusive so when you go to the supermarket, if you see a 99c tin of baked beans on the shelf, its actually what you pay at the checkout. Income tax is on a PAYE system where your employer pays it for you- so its very simple that most people dont need to fill in a tax return each year.
The education system is very good too - most primary schools have teachers on a 1:25 ratio, typically with about 350 students at a public suburban primary school. Wellington has a few private schools. Daycare for infants is subsidised by the government by 20 hours free each week.
Mothers get 18 weeks paid leave and up to 52 weeks extended leave (your job is held open for you or temporarily filled until you return to work) and fathers get 2 weeks, though the parents can share their leave entitlements.
You get a minimum 4 weeks annual vacation which accrues, and 2 weeks sick leave.
Well, alright then, “venomous”, (though they may be poisonous, I wouldn’t know, I don’t eat arachnids. Not even in MMOs). :)
Fuck the lot of you - is all I have to say, except those who have positive comments :) and fuck the Wellington City Council for wasting ratepayers money.
I can tell there were some Aussies commenting, they always bring out the sheep jokes when they have nothing useful or constructive to say, which is often.
Weather: windy? Well duh, so fucking what. You get used it, it's character building - although we do have ~2,050 sunlight hours a year - keep in mind you get burnt badly, even with sunscreen. At least we are not 3/4 of a mile from the sun like Australia.
As for the Exchange rate being 0.71 - irrelevent. Think of this, a good cooked breakfast here will cost you NZ$18 - you might get a comparable good breakfast in NYC for US$12 + sales tax (+ US$0.97) + 15% tip ($1.94) = $14.92 (ish) divide that by the exchange rate of 0.71 then that's about NZ$21. Sounds like a shit deal to me.
It's true that house prices kind of suck right now in the major cities, out in the regions it's way better value.
How do I know this? I live in Wellington, and work in IT, so I know the market, environment, and am well aware of the talent.
At risk of sounding parochial, we don't need any overly self-indulged asshats from overseas for this, we have a wealth of talent here in NZ that is doing great things already. "Experts" are not in short supply.
If you want to come to NZ for reals and not with some false expectation you'll be treated as some sort of god and get paid zillions, then: Come enjoy our phat internets (almost everywhere), excellent food, fine wine, awesome craft beers, and low corruption-perception-index society.
Nau Mai, Haere Mai!
All the IT jobs posted are contract. Some with only 2 months of on-site work!!!! WTH, move to NZ and only have a job for 2 months. It would probably take me 1 month to move. If I were to consider this I would want 5 years minimum, less than that No Thanks! Not worth the trouble.
This is completely meaningless without an idea of the general level of prices.
The prices are higher than Palo Alto. The pay is less than 1/3. You figure it out.
"good standard of living with large houses (by UK standards)"
You probably mean London standards, when I looked at moving to NZ I couldn't get anywhere near the same size house for equivalent money as I have in the UK. It was one of the things that put me off, knowing I'd have to downsize to move there.
I think it's the large number of mostly Chinese we have here means there is a strong cultural influence with Asia. You're right, it's not rational -- BKK is further than EZE; but nevertheless we 'think' ourselves closer to Asia than South America; because we have more trade and immigration with Asia. (There are probably dozens of flights from Auckland to Japan, China (on various airlines), Singapore (at least two a day - both Air NZ and Singapore Air's A380s), Thailand and Hong Kong every day out of Auckland, but only about two to south America.)
We have 'easy access' to the markets in Asia due to constant government trade deals and suchlike going on -- there's just been more contact with Asia.
We think ourselves closest to the Pacific, of course (Auckland is the world's largest Polynesian city; flights to Cook Islands, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga are all unremarkable; heck, in my high school you could almost get by speaking Samoan instead of English; and almost can in parts of southern Auckland..)
But it's more cultural and perception than actual distance; coupled with current actual traveller volumes being higher in the south pacific and asia.
Not only that, but the economy is government heavy and doesn't pay their own people very well...
True, but money isn't everything
I wouldn't say "significantly lower." Top income tax rate in California (state and federal combined) is around 39 percent..
Except the NZ top rate kicks in at $49kUSD ($70k NZD) compared to $418k in the US.
when I looked at moving to NZ I couldn't get anywhere near the same size house for equivalent money as I have in the UK. It was one of the things that put me off, knowing I'd have to downsize to move there.
Got any examples to compare? Google tells me the average house size in the UK is 76m2 compared to 205m2 in NZ.
Plus, since all liberals seem to be terrifed that Mr. Trump will start a global ICBM war, I'd think Enzed would be a great place for you!
The tubes are all new, and they're fibre.
Most people get 100mbit. It's between $60 and $100 depending if you can live with a data cap or not. You can get up to 1g. My ISP offers a plan where "you should see 700 - 900Mbps" down and 400 - 450 up for $140
Of course fibre isn't available everywhere in NZ, but it is pretty much everywhere in Wellington.
I'm in Eastbourne, which is 25min drive and 11km from the CBD, and even closer to Hutt City
It is the best place to live in Wellington:-) with great amenities and a really nice environment if you like the outdoors, yet not far from 2 cities.
But, no 100Mbit here - not scheduled here until 2019.
I know someone who moved to Auckland from the UK. He said that it's a slower pace of life, good standard of living with large houses (by UK standards) and quality healthcare.
That fits with my experience also. It's a massive generalisation but I also find people are a bit more relaxed here about everything - perhaps that has to do with the pace of life, but I think it's kind of a cultural thing as well.
One comment - houses here are generally larger than your average home in the UK, but much more poorly insulated. A good percentage of houses in the UK have double glazing, but you rarely see that here. The result is you spend a bunch on heating during the winter or get used to having a cold house, particularly if you're renting and can't take other measures. Having said that the houses I have lived in here have been built in the '70s or the '80s, newer builds may be better on average. You certainly can get double glazing and put in proper insulation, but although I've not actually checked I suspect the fact that few put in double glazing means that it's more expensive here on average than the UK.
Go read e2nz.org, laudafinem.org and related sites.
NZ - 100% pure bullshit.
There's a ripoff mentality on imports due to past high taxes and crony deals with "import licensing" - it's not uncommon to be able to buy 4-5 copies of software from the USA and have it delivered with taxes paid, for less than the cost of a single copy from local distributors.
The population is extremely parochial, with a constant need to be assured their country is the best in the world and a nasty tendency to turn violent if told it's not.
The population is 4 million, but there are 6 million passport holders.
There's a legend of being "clean, green and corruption free" - the country is none of these (it might have been in the 1950s but the legend died by the 1970s, but it's sold so heavily the population believe it - which allows corrupt police to pretty much anything they want - the spirit of Gene Hunt is alive and well in kiwiland.
If you want an example of how corrupt the country is, read the latest court judgement in the Kim Dot Com case. You'll be sitting gobmacked at how blatent it is in the proceedings and the judgement. It's all-but-explicitly admitted _by the prosecution_ that Hollywood was driving the case.
Not to mention the shitty standards for insulation, etc in NZ housing.
It's one of those countries where no matter how much heating you have, you'll feel cold indoors - and the locals will tell you "Suck it up and wear a jumper"
"Windy or not you do not know the definition of bad weather"
NZ is smack in the middle of the Roaring Forties and the only other land that far south is Patagonia. The type of weather - and the rapid changes in it - can easily kill someone who was expecting a nice sunny day in a matter of hours - and regularly does.
The bigger problem is the parochiality of the inhabitants. That friendliness is skin deep and try as you might, as a foreigner (or an intellectual) you will never be accepted as a New Zealander. If you are a tall poppy, you will be cut down to size or driven out of the country.
This is the reason it's been in the top4 (usually top2) for youth suicide rate (12-24 years) in the western world for the last 50 years
Tell you what? I will visit your country and you visit Alaska (not in the summer) or Chicago in the middle of winter? :-)
Wind, snow, and you can tell the temperature on how quick the snots freeze up your nose. 6F which is around -10F you can feel your nostrils turn crunchy fun stuff :-)
http://saveie6.com/
That's one of those cultural things and is true in most countries. I grew up in such a country and find buildings in North America and some European countries ridiculously stuffy and overheated in winter. It just depends on what you grew up with I guess.
I live in the US now but keep my indoor temperature at 18/19 C at most (65-66 ish F), and yeah, wear a jumper. I sometimes crank it to 20 C / 68 F if I have guests coming around hehe.
I grew up in New Zealand. Ice on the _inside_ of windows in winter wasn't uncommon and as well as being cold, New Zealand housing is _damp_, with mould being a constant problem.
Yes, like I say, my own first hand circumstances. The problem is that I don't live in an average UK house because I'm willing to commute 45 minutes to work, this takes me out of the extremely small flats and apartments in which the majority of the UK's population lives (hence why the UK has a low average house size) into the realm of 5 bedroom detached houses for the exact same price.
The UK's average house size is grossly skewed by it's average high population density fed by large cities like London, whilst New Zealand's is boosted by it's average low population density enhanced by large rural areas inhabited by a much smaller number of people. To put numbers to this, the UK's average population density is 425 per km^2 whereas New Zealand is only 15 per km^2, hence why the average house size is bound to be incredibly skewed in New Zealand.
To find an equivalent job I'd likely have to move to Auckland, and Auckland's housing market had far more in common with that of London than rural England, similarly as a much newer country, New Zealand doesn't seem to have the level of transport links the UK has. As such for a 45 minute commute I could not in a city like Auckland get anywhere near as large a house as I could in an equivalently sized city like, say, Birmingham in the UK.
I'm not disputing that New Zealand has larger houses on average - of course it does, if we all opted to become sheep farmers then we could have massive houses with massive amounts of land, but that's not everyone's circumstance. In my circumstance to replicate my standard of living in New Zealand by replicating or improving upon my current job I'd have to downsize my house. Averages only tell the full story if we're working on the principle that everyone fits the average, they don't, and as such not everyone will be able to upsize by moving to New Zealand - I was looking at having to go from a decent size two story 5 bedroom detached house to a single story 2 - 3 bedroom detached house last time I looked about 6 months ago in the Auckland region where I could get an equivalent financial services software development job unless I was willing to pay much more.
The average house size therefore is only a useful gauge of determining whether everyone could improve their living space size by moving to New Zealand if we're working on the assumption that either no one needs a job, or everyone can and is willing to do any job - I could expand my house size moving to New Zealand if I was willing to instead run a sheep farm for example, but I can't if I'm to maintain my current salary as a software developer in the financial services sector.
I was looking at having to go from a decent size two story 5 bedroom detached house to a single story 2 - 3 bedroom detached house last time I looked about 6 months ago in the Auckland region where I could get an equivalent financial services software development job unless I was willing to pay much more.
Your issue is not one of house size, but public transport options, which of course will always be worse in a smaller, lower density location. :)
Where I live (not NZ) also has shit public transport options, so I ride a motorbike. You can move a lot further out to the bigger houses when you expand your transport options into the faster, more agile vehicle categories
I don't think you can realistically de-link the two, at the end of the day the size of house I can get for my money in New Zealand is necessarily bound by the quality of transport infrastructure and geography to be much smaller than what I can get in the UK.
Anything else is just theoretical, and I see little point about arguing that I could get a bigger house in New Zealand if some theoretical boxes were ticked, but they're not, so it doesn't change the reality that a move to New Zealand would require a downsize.
The fact is this would effect a lot of people - yes, someone living in London will do better moving to somewhere like Auckland for sure, but as we learnt the hard way with Brexit, not everyone lives in high density cities like London as it was the constant ignorance of the suburban and rural communities that won the day for the hard and far right that have pushed for Brexit for so long.
That's all I was taking issue with - the idea that you'll inherently get a bigger house by moving to New Zealand - sure, if you live in London or some similar high density UK inner city area, but there's the whole of the rest of the country outside of London so it's an astoundingly ignorant comment to make. Whether the reason is public transport or not doesn't really matter, the point remains the same, the practical reality is that for many millions of people in the UK a move to New Zealand would require a substantial downsize.
I don't think you can realistically de-link the two,
Of course you can, as I stated if you look beyond public transport as you only transport option. I live more than 45 public transport minutes from my office, but I cut that travel time in half by riding a motorbike. By doing this, I get a bigger house, and you could too.
That's all I was taking issue with - the idea that you'll inherently get a bigger house by moving to New Zealand - sure, if you live in London or some similar high density UK inner city area, but there's the whole of the rest of the country outside of London so it's an astoundingly ignorant comment to make.
The average house size in Britain outside of London is only 89m2: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/u...
I don't even know how you squeeze 3 bedrooms into 89m2.
As I said in my original response, do you have examples you could provide? Because I think your opinion is not based on reality.
"Of course you can, as I stated if you look beyond public transport as you only transport option. I live more than 45 public transport minutes from my office, but I cut that travel time in half by riding a motorbike. By doing this, I get a bigger house, and you could too."
Right, but that means giving up the ability to do anything on my commute, so it's already causing a difference in terms of quality of life meaning we're no longer comparing like for like. Even outside of public transport though there are still major issues with traffic in Auckland.
"The average house size in Britain outside of London is only 89m2: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/u...
I don't even know how you squeeze 3 bedrooms into 89m2. "
Well you've failed at reading comprehension here - the article says the average size of a new build three bedroom home is 89m^2. That ignores the fact that there are also plenty of 4 bedroom and upwards new build homes that are much larger coupled with a vast amount of existing housing stock that is also much larger. You've gone from using misleading stats, to now completely and utterly mis-representing stats. New build three bedroom homes are small because the government has been creating massive financial incentives for house building companies to build "affordable housing". The fact that building companies have then gone on to take those incentives and build "affordable housing" shouldn't really surprise anyone. It still says nothing about the average house size outside the UK's high density cities like London though which is drastically higher as evidence by my very own plot, the price I paid for it, and the price it's worth now.
"As I said in my original response, do you have examples you could provide? Because I think your opinion is not based on reality."
Yes, I provided one, the fact you choose to ignore it doesn't make me wrong, it makes you wilfully ignorant. I pointed out that I have a 5 bedroom detached house (we don't work on m^2 in the UK so I've never bothered to measure it, but it's like any decent sized detatched 5 bedroom house - good size kitchen, utility room, living room, dining room, double garage, en-suite, bathroom, study, sizeable attic for storage etc.). To move to Auckland to get an equivalent standard of living I can only get a 3 bedroom single floor detached house for the same money. This isn't just some guesswork or something, this was based on an actual plan to move coupled with thorough investigation of the housing, work, and commute options, before discovering this reality, that I wouldn't actually be able to have the same standard of living by moving there. A move to NZ is great for relatively unskilled workers because you can just move to rural New Zealand where they need plumbers, brick layers and so forth and get a massive increase in the standard of living, but for people like me with a very specific, sought after but in limited geographic areas, well paid skillset, I can't do better by going to New Zealand, I have to downsize, or pay substantially more.
Whether you want to listen to my anecdote or not is really irrelevant, it doesn't change the reality. Bask in wilful ignorance if you want by denying that reality, but that's not really my problem.
I'll give you a hint though, if New Zealand was this perfect wonderland, where everything is unquestionably better, then why are they working so hard to get people like me over and have been for decades? If it was so clear cut they'd have closed their skill shortage long ago - they haven't because people like me realise the dream falters a bit when it collides with reality. If you want to keep on dreaming though, then go for it. I haven't given up completely on the idea of moving to get out of this increasingly shit country, but whether it's New Zealand or somewhere else is now a lot more up in the air - when I first thought about it New Zealand was the clear cut choice until I looked into the reality of it.
but for people like me with a very specific, sought after but in limited geographic areas, well paid skillset, I can't do better by going to New Zealand
I have no problem with this, your case is unusual. But you implied that this is also the case for 'many millions' of others Brits, which I don't think it is.
It's the case for many millions of other Brits because you still have well over 30 million people living outside the big cities and the majority of them do so because they can get bigger houses there than they can in the cities. The idea that commuters like me are rare and unusual is simply false, villages such as that I live in are almost entirely populated by people like me, the exceptions are the local plumber, the local post office owner, a couple of farmers, and the local shop owner. Rural Britain is absolutely full of these commuters villages now, and these commuter villages are in high demand and also full, to the extent that the government has been outright planning areas of green belt to be built on to build new garden towns for commuters.
Of those people living in villages such as mine, there are of course some who could benefit from a move to New Zealand - the farmers, the plumber and so forth, but for the majority of us living in these villages they're still going to be in the exact same situation as me.
So yes, for someone stuck in the painfully small accommodation in inner city areas New Zealand is going to be a fantastic improvement in quality of life for them - but here's the problem, so is moving to a commuter city in the UK. If like me, you've already done that, then the jump to New Zealand just isn't that great and again, yes, there most definitely are millions of Brits living in commuter towns like I do simply because it's the only way you can get a decent sized house without being a multi-millionaire.
Again, I think you're basing your understand of life in the UK on arbitrary averages found in publications that are far from scientific, and that's misguiding your understanding of what life is like in the UK.
For what it's worth the problem I have with moving isn't just with New Zealand - my wife is Canadian so we considered moving there too, but I don't want to deal with the shit winters they get, so Western Canada is the best bet, and yet Vancouver has the exact same house price problems that Auckland does.
So many people move countries without thinking it through or looking into it, and then just end up moving back to their place of origin within a year or two, and it's precisely because of the type of issue I'm describing here - it's not always as straightforward and inherently great as people think. There are compromises - for me, if I do move to New Zealand I will be accepting that decrease in house space, but I'll be living in a country with a far more progressive political climate, with far greater future prospects, far better schooling if we decide to have kids, and for me, better weather and far better places to scuba dive. As I said - it's not that I'm saying NZ is bad or doesn't have it's upsides, just that house space isn't one of them and yes, that does in fact apply to the millions of us Brits who already have nice houses in commuter towns which the government is building more of because of demand.
So many people move countries without thinking it through or looking into it, and then just end up moving back to their place of origin within a year or two, and it's precisely because of the type of issue I'm describing here
I think you've highlighted the real issue here. Some people are more adventurous and will do anything for the experience and are willing to put up with more to get out and about and do new things.
You might be one of them, but based on the amount of Brits I see absolutely everywhere I go around the world, a lot of your country-people aren't as timid.
Again, I think you're making assumptions. Britain is without a doubt a nation full of travellers, but again a massive portion of the population doesn't travel, which is precisely why a majority voted for Brexit - those people who voted for Brexit are, the vast majority of the time, precisely the type of people who are poorly travelled. Those people weren't bothered by things like the currency tanking because they rarely step outside their own little neighbourhoods, let alone the country. These are your classic little England types.
I'm an internationalist by any measure, that is in my blood precisely because I am well travelled, and precisely because I do hate this country and like taking every opportunity I can to leave it. I also couldn't get away with being timid even if I wanted to; when you reach senior levels in business you just can't get away with that. I've hiked inside the arctic circle, I've dived multiple places throughout 4 of the 5 oceans, and I've discovered new populations of plant species in South America and I'm barely into my 30s. I've no problem with travelling and being adventurous but to do that requires disposable income.
So it's precisely for that reason the idea of spending more on my mortgage to get an equivalently sized house in New Zealand and in turn sacrificing my ability to travel put me off the idea of moving in the first place. By staying here I keep my standard of living including my ability to travel to the places I've always wanted to go (Scuba diving in places like the Galapagos isn't a cheap past time), which is precisely my point - if I move to NZ and get an equivalently sized house I sacrifice precisely the ability to travel.
You seem to be stabbing in the dark with all sorts of ideas to justify why you think it's correct to assume that moving from the UK to New Zealand will always leave you better off, whilst missing the more obvious resolution to your paradox - that your preconceived notion is simply incorrect. Most such emigration myths are based on the classic fallacy of believing the grass is always greener, but as always the reality is far more nuanced.
As an aside, you may start seeing less Brits when you travel going forward, certainly in France last August, and the West Indies a few weeks ago there were far less of my fellow countrymen than I'm used to seeing. There were more Americans than usual, presumably because of the currently over-valued dollar.
You seem to be stabbing in the dark with all sorts of ideas to justify why you think it's correct to assume that moving from the UK to New Zealand will always leave you better off,
Um you got it ass backwards. You said there's many millions of Brits just like you. I never said always, in fact I specifically called out the rare cases where it might not be so. The point I was making was that for most Brits, houses are on average bigger and cost less. Of course it's not true in 100% of cases, but you didn't even give one to back up your claim
Most such emigration myths are based on the classic fallacy of believing the grass is always greener,
Most people I know who moved (and I know a fair few) moved because they wanted to try something different. Not to do exactly the same thing, or a perception of a better life, merely something that is more interesting. You are clearly not one of them, you've made that point clear.
"Most people I know who moved (and I know a fair few) moved because they wanted to try something different. Not to do exactly the same thing, or a perception of a better life, merely something that is more interesting. You are clearly not one of them, you've made that point clear."
Nonsense, you're still grasping at straws. Your whole argument is based on the misguided assumption that if you want an equivalent quality of life then you're not wanting to do something different. That's patently false, it's possible to still want the same size house, the same salary, and same commute to work whilst indulging in a completely different culture and lifestyle outside of that.
You're fundamentally wrong - people don't move to do something different, they move to make their lives better. Sometimes, that involves changing everything, like moving from a cramped inner city London flat to a much larger accommodation in New Zealand, for less money. In other cases, that means maintaining the same high level of living and salary, whilst achieving a better work life balance, better weather, a better political climate, a friendlier culture, and a much more fulfilling lifestyle outside of work.
People only move to change absolutely everything, when absolutely everything in their life is shit. That's not the case for everyone, some of us have no problem with some elements of their lives, but still wish to change others. You're ironically making judgements about my travelling experiences, my acceptance of change and so forth without having any idea about me, and in turn you're getting your entire points completely and utterly wrong as a result.
As I said before, you're just grasping at straws to try and tell yourself that you're correct, and failing miserably at every turn because the simple fact is that you are instead completely wrong. You tried to defend a comment that was simply false - a suggestion that a move to NZ will always leave you with a bigger house, I've explained why that's not true, and if you still don't want to accept it that's fine. But at least recognise the irony in suggesting someone doesn't like change, when you can't even change your mind about whether you were correct about something so utterly trivial as a minor point made on the internet.