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Microsoft Continues Porting Visual C++ To Linux (microsoft.com)
Long-time Slashdot reader Billly Gates shared some news from Microsoft's Visual C++ blog: Visual Studio 2017 now lets developers write C++ code for Linux desktops, servers, and other devices without an extension, targeting specific architectures, including ARM:
Visual Studio will automatically copy and remotely build your sources and can launch your application with the debugger... Today Visual Studio only supports building remotely on the Linux target machine. It is not limited to specific Linux distros, but we do have dependencies on the presence of some tools. Specifically, we need openssh-server, g++, gdb and gdbserver.
Fuck microsoft
Eclipse is already here. I've used VS for awhile, but eclipse for Java seems fine so far. Certainly if it was my own dime, I'd consider just using it.
I think they need to stop charging for VS otherwise they may get .. well eclipsed.
...I wonder if they licensed any of that technology. I bought a copy of VisualGDB a few years ago and it was slick as hell. I had to port a bootloader written in C that was Windows-only, turning it into a simple command-line program on Linux. It was easy as using a native toolchain (easier, in fact, if you have Visual Studio muscle-memory), and so seamless that it was easy to forget that this was all over-the-wire interaction between a Linux box and Windows.
In my case I was porting it over to a Raspberry Pi to prototype a portable diagnostic device for a hardware project. Came out swimmingly, was one of the highest-impact things I did for them. I was starting with all Windows code, both C and C#. Between VisualGDB and Mono, the porting was extremely easy to do.
FTFY
You shell out $500 and install VS on Windows, then build and debug your app on Linux on a separate host connected via Ethernet or WLAN. For a small app that might work well but for a large app with thousands of source files and/or many threads of execution at runtime, the extra latency introduced by the network connection could a nuisance.
What makes you think that doesn't happen now? If they were going to do that (and I'm not yet so paranoid as to think they do that), not like this feature would have been the only way to do it.
This is yet another step in the disappearance of Windows altogether.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
You do realise that "remote" in this instance is you own Linux machine, right? Not a closed build server owned by Microsoft - you are asked for connection information to a Linux machine so VS can copy sources, build, run and connect the debugger.
A 30 second scan of the link in the summary would have shown that up, but that might have held up your shit posting...
Remember the paper by Ken Thompson On Trusting Trust @: https://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/712.fall02/papers/p761-thompson.pdf
So basically they're just porting the IDE.
Remind me again why I'd spend money on this instead of just freely using eclipse or netbeans or something?
Are they porting compiler and build system or the entire IDE?
If they are porting IDE than with what? Isn't VS IDE done with WPF these days? Perhaps they target...ehem...WINE?
Or are they rebuilding it around Visual Studio Code?
4wdloop
If I were going to switch to anything other than gcc (or support anything in addition to it), I would first go for clang and then maybe icc. I can't imagine what value vc++ would add over those.
gcc's warning/error messages are pretty awful and I really like that clangs almost always point me precisely to where the problem is, as opposed to where the problem finally made the compiler lose its mind. Does vcc++ improve on clang in that respect? If it does, I could supporting it as a build target for automated builds to get the nice diagnostics (I do this now for a project with clang), but I can't imagine it would be worthwhile for something that gets deployed.
icc is nice if you are on Intel hardware and want the sooper-dooper extra special optimizations, but that is about it.
You do realise that "remote" in this instance is you own Linux machine, right?
Exactly. All you need is a two host LAN over which to move your code. And since Windows isn't secure enough to be connected to the Internet, there is no way Microsoft could be stealing anything.
wrong kind of remote dumbass. They scp code to the linux target, and ssh command to compile. FFS.
And I want it because...why?
Maybe I'm the one with the problem. Given how easy it is to sell people something they already have for free (Dropbox, Slack, GotomyPC, etc), you'd think I'd get on the bandwagon and go into business selling people the ability to click their mouse or type Latin characters on their keyboards.
"What makes you think that doesn't happen now?"
Why would I of all people bring it up if I weren't already aware that this is exactly what is happening and have had it happen to myself (though not via Microsoft?)
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
As if Visual Studio isn't sending shit out to Microsoft. You trust way too much, oh coward that can't be bothered to identify themselves because they're WRONG.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
You do realise that "remote" in this instance is you own Linux machine, right? Not a closed build server owned by Microsoft - you are asked for connection information to a Linux machine so VS can copy sources, build, run and connect the debugger.
While I'm not asserting that Microsoft is sending anything home in this case, that actually wouldn't be an impediment. They'd just send the data back from your Windows machine, which is receiving the debugging information.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
VS does send certain metrics to Microsoft, this has been the case for ages, and its not hidden. But there's absolutely no evidence that VS is sending the sort of thing that you are alleging, so unless you provide some...
Remote building and debugging has been part of VS for certain targets for ages, this is nothing new. And I'm both identifying myself and calling you out. How about that?
I never thought I'd say this, but Microsoft may be the only organization out there that can save Linux from itself.
I was a long time Linux user. I started with Yggdrasil, before moving on to other distros over the years. I've seen Linux grow from almost nothing into a superb desktop and server OS, but I've also witnessed its steep decline since then.
Linux distros peaked around 2010. Its reliability was great. It was finally easy to install. It had excellent hardware support. It had good desktop environments. Linux distros of that era were a pleasure to use.
Then it all went to hell. PulseAudio ruined the audio/sound experience. GNOME 3 ruined the desktop experience. NetworkManager caused me nothing but problems. Then systemd came along and prevented my Linux systems from booting properly on multiple occasions (I never had this sort of a problem with sysvinit).
I can no longer use Linux in its current state. I've had to move to FreeBSD.
While I've never trusted Microsoft, and I've never liked using their software, I'm beginning to think that they may be the only hope for Linux.
If they created a modern Linux distro that undid so much of the damage that we've seen during the recent past, then I may be persuaded to return to Linux.
If anyone from Microsoft is reading this comment, please consider creating a proper Linux distribution. Create one that doesn't use PulseAudio, one that doesn't use GNOME 3 by default, and one that doesn't force systemd on us.
Microsoft, please create a Linux distro that works for its users, instead of against us. I never thought I'd say this, either, but I would even be willing to pay a fair price for such a Linux distro.
Better than shill posting, which is all this article is. Posted by the biggest Microsoft shill on Slashdot no less.
It would be quite something for microsoft to offer a full c++ compiler and IDE on linux, it would help migrate Windows developers and (hopefully) offer a standardized way of packaging and deployment. Kudos to them if they pull it off. Embrace and extend indeed!
I'm more than curious.
I find the VS debugger to be simply wonderful; as do others. In my institution, a lot of developers (mostly Ph.D. students) who have to target Linux, choose to run VS in a VM and develop/debug under Windows before recompiling under Linux. This is so popular that some have automated the process somewhat and perform Linux daily builds (only).
I've used GDB in the past, but wasn't impressed: so I'm wondering why, if the VS debugger under Windows is so good, why don't more people don't do this sort of thing?
@peetm
Its not just open source anymore!"
You are posting this from work? Does your employee know that you are wasting time on the internet instead of working?
Considering how many large software companies use GNU make to build Windows software this effort is likely doomed from day one.
Linux is for gays and girls.
I'm not saying it was an impediment, just that the entire premise of the argument was bollocks - the Linux machine in question is one you supply.
Because it's impossible that some people actually appreciate some Microsoft offerings? I don't know if you're paid to bash MS or you're just so deluded that you completely fail to consider the possibly that popular MS offerings are popular because people maybe feel the offering provides better value to them.
Oh wow, how original, never heard that one before, give yourself a much needed pat on the back and immediately consider yourself a top tier comedian...
The title here is extremely deceptive because MSVC isn't being ported to Linux at all. What they are doing is creating a way to target Linux. It's still just development on a Windows desktop, not development on a Linux desktop.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Grudges die hard, but Microsoft have sensibly changed tack on Linux and FOSS since the change of CEOs.
Sorry, but no. I will stay with what has worked well for a long time.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
You're the one who chose that username of your own free will. Don't hate that you have to lie in the bed you made!
At least I chose one.
Linux is an OS.. "operating system " Visual C++ an old .WTH do they mean?
" programming language" by Microsoft . Neither are synonymous
Nobody at Microsoft has the time or boredom to want to inspect and steal your 18 different broken replacements for string compare and bubble sort. Jesus Christ some people here really believe some of this shit and expect to be given credibility in other conversations.
You seriously think there are teams of devs sifting through your source code trying to figure out what the hell it does and whether it's worth stealing? Cripes, devs can barely take over code ownership of stuff they are trained on and handed off to.
Is this going to be in the same vane as Borland's Kylix, which could only use it's own supplied libraries?
I have been using the VisualGDB product for linux development. If this works as good or better, I'm happy
I have spent lots of time trying to find a decent IDE for linux, but none of the available options comes even close to Visual Studio
Yeah, if I have no options, I can get work done on any system, but a good IDE makes everything easier
Nothing cracks me up more than how people get pissed off at AC's for being anonymous, then try to project some kind of deep bullshit onto it.
...and we all know what comes next.
can you emerge world with it?
I'm not saying it was an impediment, just that the entire premise of the argument was bollocks - the Linux machine in question is one you supply.
Right, and then the data in question is transferred back through a Windows machine, which you can't trust. It doesn't matter who supplies the Linux machine. You are opening a conduit into it from your Windows machine.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
VS does send certain metrics to Microsoft...
However much it is, it's too much. Rejected.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
So, they've got a decent X server available for the Windows platform bundled with that?
Have gnu, will travel.
You have it backwards.
I'll give Microsoft credit for a great MSVC UI. It actually works a lot better than something like Eclipse (though that's not hard...).
The compilers though? Microsoft's compilers are shit through and through.
Call me when they actually support C99. Yep - MSVC doesn't properly support C from almost 20 damn years ago, much less something like C11.
And STOP CLAIMING POSIX-STANDARD FUNCTIONS ARE DEPRECATED. Yep - MS claims POSIX-standard functions such as fopen are "deprecated".
MSVC as a compiler is a flaming turd.
I just checked and it isn't April yet!
you are such a loser.
However much it is, it's too much. Rejected.
You just proved his point. You don't know the details, of course. Linux zealots never do. You can reject anything you want. Fortunately, the world doesn't revolve around your kind.
Of course. Basic (optional) telemetry to help improve the product is a terrible thing.
But hey, that attitude is exactly why the year-of-Linux-on-the-desktop is always going to be _next_ year...
Most of the above are foisted on Linux community by that asswipe, and he somehow gets RedHat to go along.
Basic (optional) telemetry to help improve the product is a terrible thing.
Telemetry that is opt-out instead of opt-in is bad. Telemetry with no opt-out is worse. Spyware under the guise of product improvement is the worst. The latter is classic Microsoft. Rejected.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
See my subject (never understood why they cut it either) & this link https://community.embarcadero.com/article/news/16418-product-roadmap-august-2016/ & it's a good thing!
* Linux is indeed making inroads into the world now & yes, it's a MAJOR competitor (keeps per unit costs down of handsets/routers etc.) - this is your proof.
APK
P.S.=> BOTH MS & Embarcadero (will always be BORLAND to me) are doing this but I wonder if Visual Studio does MacOS X, iOS, Android (which Delphi does already) & in 64-bit for all of them too - Delphi, does (& again, soon Linux too & 32/64-bit)... apk