Nick Denton Predicts 'The Good Internet' Will Rise Again (pcworld.com)

Gawker founder Nick Denton argued today that the future will be rooted in sites like Reddit which involve their reader community -- even if there's only a handful of subtopics each user is interested in. "There's a vitality to it and there's a model for what [media] could be," he told an audience at the South by Southwest festival.

But when it comes to other social media sites, "Facebook makes me despise many of my friends and Twitter makes me hate the rest of the world," Denton said. And he attempted to address America's politically-charged atmosphere where professional news organizations struggled to pay their bills while still producing quality journalism. An anonymous reader quotes PCWorld: The internet played a huge role in this crisis, but despite it all, Denton thinks the web can be the solution to the problems it created. "On Google Hangouts chats or iMessage you can exchange quotes, links, stories, media," he said. "That's a delightful, engaging media experience. The next phase of media is going to come out of the idea of authentic, chill conversation about things that matter. Even if we're full of despair over what the internet has become, it's good to remind yourself when you're falling down some Wikipedia hole or having a great conversation with somebody online -- it's an amazing thing. In the habits that we enjoy, there are the seeds for the future. That's where the good internet will rise up again."
To show his support for news institutions, Denton has also purchased a paid subscription to the New York Times' site.

Comments

Do me a favour

[cyber-vandal]

This idiot is one of the people that has made the internet so unpleasant.

Re:Do me a favour

[Aighearach]

Gotta agree.

I remember back when reddit was supposed to be the "new slashdot."

That didn't happen, so now they're going to try to be the "new good."

And if facebook makes him despise his "friends," that really says a lot about him and the "friendships" that he has.

I poke my head head in and see what is happening on facebook about once a year, and it is all normal stuff that those people would be doing and saying. Nothing despicable at all. Maybe just stop pretending to be friends with those people, and problem solved?

As for, "the idea of authentic, chill conversation about things that matter," that's just a complete load of hooey. If the things matter, and the context is authentic, that isn't the time to "chill." Like, hey man, you're not going to save the world with a bong hit. What if there is authentic disagreement in the world about actions to take, and the results matter? Seems like time to get serious. If we improved the conversation to make things more constructive, why would they become "chill?" Isn't "chill" something you would only expect to experience inside a bubble with like-minded people in relaxed contexts of little import? What we need is improved arguing with potential for overlap of solutions.

Re:Do me a favour

[Anonymous Coward]

And if facebook makes him despise his "friends," that really says a lot about him and the "friendships" that he has.

Yeah, like maybe his only friend is Mark Zuckerberg,

Re:Do me a favour

[kuzb]

Seriously. Fuck Nick Denton. Maybe he thinks he was part of "the good internet", but the rest of us know better.

Leg drop him again, Hulkster!

Re:Do me a favour

[Stolovaya]

And if facebook makes him despise his "friends," that really says a lot about him and the "friendships" that he has.

While I'm not fan of Denton, he has a point. Not sure what his context is, but social media (not just FaceBook) seems to embolden people to express some truly awful things. I've seen more than a couple people that went from thoughtful and insightful posts to outright bigotry.

Re: Do me a favour

[Anonymous Coward]

"Like, hey man, you're not going to save the world with a bong hit."

How the hell do you know? It's never been tried.

I'd like to teach the world to rip,
Bongs in perfect harmony.

Re: Do me a favour

[FatdogHaiku]

"Like, hey man, you're not going to save the world with a bong hit."

How the hell do you know? It's never been tried.

I'd like to teach the world to rip, Bongs in perfect harmony.

No No No!!!
You have to build one big COSMIC BONG and nail everyone on earth at the same time...
That way it's a fair race to the snack aisles of the world!
I know, you say "What about those brave souls serving on submarines?"
Well, They can surface, breathe deep, and head for the snack isles of the world!

Re: Do me a favour

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because everyone is too easily offended. Bunch of pansies!

Re:Do me a favour

[Anonymous Coward]

Bigotry is ... truthfully ... long overdue. I am especially bigoted against no-brainers unable to perform complex variable maths --- but I can name 1/2 dozen such execrable classes. And bigotry is patriotic, unless you believe that nibberized Trotsky-ized USA is a good idea. Most of the well-maintained USA yeomanry do not!

Re:Do me a favour

[sheramil]

Not sure what his context is, but social media (not just FaceBook) seems to embolden people to express some truly awful things.

Wow, you should swing by 4chan some time. If the one-remove remoteness of being online gives people the idea they can be assholes, add anonymity to that and you get some truly dreadful opinions being expressed.

Oddly enough, you also get some remarkable honesty because people aren't invested in puffing up their own egos so much.

Re:Do me a favour

[Anonymous Coward]

I understand. I am particularly bigoted against people who confuse "their", "they're" and "there", so you can perhaps imagine the degree of disdain with which I regard the world.

In addition, I have done several searches on the word "nibberized", and I can't find any definition of it. Care to explain, or is it a private neologism?

Re:Do me a favour

[Dogtanian]

I remember back when reddit was supposed to be the "new slashdot."

Are you sure it was Reddit they were talking about? From what I remember- and commented on in this post from 2008 (i.e. when this was still recent history)- it was Digg that was getting all the hype and being spoken of as- essentially- an improved, next-generation Slashdot.

Digg's disastrous and rapid decline into near complete irrelevance several years back (#) have pushed it off the radar to such an extent it's easy to forget it existed at all, let alone the fact that it enjoyed several years of major popularity and had been a poster boy for "Web 2.0" in its early days.

Having checked its Wikipedia article, Reddit has been around almost as long as Digg (mid-2005 vs. late-2004). That doesn't surprise me that much- if I think about it, it's a site I'd been vaguely aware of for quite a long time. But it definitely seems that its current level of prominence is only something that's been attained in the past few years (i.e. post-Digg)- which would tie in with what I'd heard, that a lot of former Digg users moved to Reddit.

Anyway, this isn't a defence of Digg, just an attempt to ensure it's not inadvertently written out of history- for good or for bad.

As my linked post above makes clear, even in its early days I grew quickly disillusioned and watched it go downhill before my very eyes. And in hindsight, Digg- or its users- were some of the first to really highlight what would become many of the negative aspects of social media unleashed on the public at large that we know today. Such as the (then-hyped) "wisdom of crowds" descending into mob mentality, attention grabbing stories, manipulation and suppression, etc.

Digg arrived around the time the Internet was moving away from being seen as something for geeks and esoteric types, even past its late-90s/early-00s "cool kids" fad-dom and was becoming something that pretty much everyone used. If it was ever meant to be something akin to "Slashdot on steroids"- and I'm not sure that it was- it quickly way beyond that into a much larger and more general-interest audience with discussions and submissions covering much wider fields of interest; basically a forerunner of where Reddit is today. By the time it over-confidently misjudged its footing and went careering over the cliff edge, Digg was- AFAICT- far, far larger than Slashdot had ever been.

It's possible that when it originally launched in 2005 that Reddit might have been compared to Slashdot- or equally possible that you're back-projecting its latter success onto what people said about Digg! However, by the time Reddit (essentially) took over from Digg a few years back, both had gone far enough beyond Slashdot in terms of scale and audience that it didn't make sense to compare them.

That's not a criticism of Slashdot; it's a specialist, geek-oriented site, and always was. That was just less obvious in the days when most people on the Internet *were* geek types. I don't know what its traffic's like these days, but if it seems less prominent than it used to be, that's as likely because what was once a fairly tall building in the days when the Internet was geeky remains the same size, but is now dwarfed by skyscrapers surrounding it, i.e. sites used by the type of people (i.e. the vast majority of the public) who weren't on the Internet 20 years ago!

(#) Apparently precipitated by a major and disastrous redesign circa 2010, on top of growing competition from other sites and social media

Re: Do me a favour

[dougdonovan]

the good Internet never dropped. we can still pay our bills online as well as keep in touch with family & keep our careers up to date.

Re: Do me a favour

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody's gonna read your wall of text, Gramps.

Re:Do me a favour

[Hussman32]

Spez (reddit co-founder and CEO) commented on Digg recently. Digg's 'upgrade' to a tile format alienated the entire user base. It was the best thing that happened to Reddit.

In my view, Reddit's greatest strength is its greatest weakness. Like you note, too many people. The plus side is a lot of them are brilliant, a lot of them are misinformed but people think they are brilliant, and a lot of them are 'salt of the earth' variety that have a habit of writing honestly. There is no shortage of content if you know where to look.

Slashdot to me is now kind of a combined tech/science subreddit populated by usually smarter people, in general, but I must admit I'm coming here less and less because the stories posted have a lot of slant from certain submitters who know less than they think they do and the lack of curation for the obvious troll posts.

   

Re: Do me a favour

[Hussman32]

I read it, and if you did you'd see he answered the question with some historical perspective. It's a discussion. No need to be a troll.

Re:Do me a favour

[Dogtanian]

Spez (reddit co-founder and CEO) commented on Digg recently. Digg's 'upgrade' to a tile format alienated the entire user base. It was the best thing that happened to Reddit.

Interesting; sounds like I got that one about right then..!

Can't judge Digg's 2010 redesign personally- I'd long stopped using it by then, and AFAICT it's been redesigned (again) from scratch since- but it does sound like they were one of the first sites to go with the tiled interface that became so common in the following years. Which makes it ironic if it drove many of its users to Reddit, since that's been criticised for a (supposedly) confusing and unforgiving text interface that at first glance looks more like Digg did originally. (Albeit with nesting which- IIRC- Digg's lack of annoyed me).

That said, Reddit nowadays is probably even more important than Digg was. What I find interesting about Digg is how completely a site that was once genuinely quite significant (#) has disappeared. I mean, MySpace is the archetypal "fallen from grace" social media website... but people still remember it as that. Digg isn't just all but dead today, its existence has been very quickly- and almost completely- forgotten, which is in some ways an even bigger fall.

(#) Unlike, say, Second Life which a lot of media types obsessed over out of proportion to its actual usage... at least until it became clear that it wasn't- and never would be- anything more than a niche site for oddballs while everyone else was getting into Twitter and Facebook.

Re:Do me a favour

[Anonymous Coward]

If people use Facebook the way it was initially meant to be used - just to connect to people they actually knew in real life, like family, relatives, old school friends, et al, it would be quite a pleasant experience

However, if the idea is to create a data mining tool, of course that will ruin the experience. Like when I open even a /. page and the first half of the browser is occupied by an ad that takes a number of seconds to minimize. Whatever happened to 'If you subscribe and sign in, you can disable the ads'?

Re:Do me a favour

[Anonymous Coward]

And if facebook makes him despise his "friends," that really says a lot about him and the "friendships" that he has.

While I'm not fan of Denton, he has a point. Not sure what his context is, but social media (not just FaceBook) seems to embolden people to express some truly awful things. I've seen more than a couple people that went from thoughtful and insightful posts to outright bigotry.

Do people normally do this under their real names, where it's likely to be used against them? I would submit that people express awful things since they can be anonymous, and also, because in real life, they would be impugned for just expressing such opinions. That has less to do with Social Media (aside from the anonymous aspect) and more to do with a culture of intimidation of people who have opinions that don't agree with one's own. Something seen a lot particularly in college campuses and the news media.

Re: Do me a favour

[Aighearach]

"Like, hey man, you're not going to save the world with a bong hit."

How the hell do you know? It's never been tried.

Hey, if you ever make it online try searching for the "1960s."

It didn't work.

They had fun. But it didn't save anything.

Re:Do me a favour

[Aighearach]

And don't you remember, long before 2008, the jokes about the new-new-slashdot?
It was definitely already a cliche before 2002.
I remember because this is my lucid moment before I take my meds, er, heh.

Re:Do me a favour

[Dogtanian]

It was definitely already a cliche before 2002.

I'm a newcomer- I only joined Slashdot in 2002. :-)

Re:Do me a favour

[Aighearach]

Maybe they were always just bigots, and you didn't know? Until you did?

There were probably other signs.

This is where Slashdot is failing

[Anonymous Coward]

We don't need more articles like this that bore everyone. Instead, we need useful information for nerds, like how indo-chimps are stealing our jobs. We need laws that ban indo-chimps from entering the United States, which sadly was lacking from either of Trump''s travel bans. These topics are important, but unfortunately Slashdot censors them with abusive moderation.

Re:This is where Slashdot is failing

[sit1963nz]

And idiots like you need to realise that 96% of the worlds population are NOT US citizens and are perfectly entitled to put USA LAST.
We too can state that "no deal is better than a bad deal"

We already see this with tourist numbers to the USA plummeting.

Also at risk is $2Trillion in exports.

There is very little if anything that is made in the USA that can not be sourced elsewhere. Worse, US companies who manufacture and export will be quick to leave the USA and set up shop elsewhere to keep access to that 96%. So if anything you are looking at loosing MORE jobs.

Asia is the biggest growing market, the USA essentially a saturated one, so it far more important for firms that want customer growth to have access to Asia (60% of the world population) than the USA 4%.

There is no "rule" that says the USA must or will win. We the 96% are NOT beholden to the USA, we are not subject to US law, we can not be forced to buy US goods and products. So go for it, start a trade war, the long term looser will be the USA.

In the 1960s the USA accounted for about 60% of the entire worlds GDP, now it is 20% and falling. So keep pissing people off, keep pissing your friends off its only going to hasten the fall. Every other empire in history has fallen, the USA is not immune.

Sure loss of trade with the USA will hurt, but heres the thing, people adapt and technology allows them to adapt faster than before, so it will only be years, maybe a decade before the world is back to where it was, without the USA, mean while the USA is much much worse off.

Oh, and here is the great thing about capitalism, labour is simply another item that can be bought from multiple vendors. China has not stolen any US jobs, it just used capitalism where by it did a better job cheaper. So why you cheered on Amazon for putting bookstores out of business, the same principle applied to US jobs, manufacturers has to produce more, better, cheaper because americans voted with their wallets and demanded it. Well now you have it, those jobs left the USA and will not come back.

Demand away that stuff must be made in the USA, we the 96% will demand it is not. And we the 96% who also have 80% of the worlds GDP have more say than you do.

Re:This is where Slashdot is failing

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice rant, but as an American who thinks this country is going to be run to the ground (or sold to Russia) by the current administration, all I hear is talk.

For some reason the rest of the world still looks at us as something special, that needs to be deferred to, so much that it continues to reinforce the idiots among us who believe we are something special.

If the rest of the world were tougher on us, it might make us more honest in our dealings, willing to sacrifice to do the right thing, etc. As it is we are mostly a bunch of selfish jerks (like our President) that wants everything but doesnt want to give up anything.

Re: This is where Slashdot is failing

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh but you love our USA website.
I don't go to the BBC and bitch at them for not catering to me.

Re: This is where Slashdot is failing

[mrbester]

If Slashdot was run by anybody in Europe, at least there'd be the capability to display characters other than just those under code 128 of the ASCII set.

Re: This is where Slashdot is failing

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it worked so well when it could? Fuck you, right in the umlaut. Understand the history.

Re: This is where Slashdot is failing

[Anonymous Coward]

It sounds to me like you secretly wish you were American instead of whatever it is that you actually are.

Re:This is where Slashdot is failing

[ColdWetDog]

Movies. Pizza. Microcode.

Re:This is where Slashdot is failing

[ooloorie]

The flaw with your rant is that you someone suffer from the delusion that the rest of the world wants free trade while the US becomes protectionist. In fact, the frustration of Americans with the rest of the world is that it is horribly protectionist, xenophobic, and nationalist, whether it's the EU, China, or Japan. The US is the reason there is the level of free trade, free movement, and prosperity that we have in the world today.

If the US demands that "stuff must be made in the USA", it simply starts acting like all the other nations in the world are already acting. That should scare you. But if you think that this will lead to a flowering of free trade among other countries, you are completely out of touch with reality.

Re: This is where Slashdot is failing

[Anonymous Coward]

If Slashdot was run by anybody in Europe, at least there'd be the capability to display characters other than just those under code 128 of the ASCII set.

Correct. Which should be another hint to you that Slashdot is primarily an American site for Americans.

Re:This is where Slashdot is failing

[sysrammer]

I believe rants like this give ammunition to the "America Firsters".

Re:This is where Slashdot is failing

[sit1963nz]

The USA has NEVER been about free trade.
It has always had import tariffs and massive subsidies, especially in the agricultural sector.
In fact the USA has been loosing when it comes to the WTO when it comes to protectionist policies.

Re:This is where Slashdot is failing

[sit1963nz]

Good, because as the USA gets more obnoxious, more people in more countries will vote with their wallet and it won't be in the US's favour. China (if not already) will soon be the world biggest economy, and the EU (if it hangs in there) will be the 2nd largest with the US 3rd. Peak USA was in the 1970's and its been slipping ever since then. Trade wars don't just stop products you dont want, they can also stop products you NEED (e.g. rare earth materials) as others retaliate with the tools they have, e.g. denial of product.

Re:This is where Slashdot is failing

[ooloorie]

It has always had import tariffs and massive subsidies, especially in the agricultural sector.

And yet, those import tariffs and massive subsidies were less massive than those of most other nations.

In fact the USA has been loosing when it comes to the WTO when it comes to protectionist policies.

That's funny. Who do you think made GATT/WTO happen? Who exactly do you think had the commitment to free markets and free trade? German ex-Nazis? French farmers? The Supreme Soviet? New Zealand sheep? Get a clue.

Re: This is where Slashdot is failing

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the rest of the world can try to enter a trade war with the US... Which will end the moment a US supercarrier group gets into your national waters. The EU is now all blue in the face at the prospect of having to pay more for their defence, which wouldn't have been necessary had they not rushed to comply with Obama and soured their relationship with Russia. As a European I don't believe Kiev, Vilnius or even Warsaw are worth Paris, Berlin or Rome. I enjoy being able to visit Prague or Budapest, but Iike Brussels and Amsterdam more. I'm a realist and I know you do not bully a giant. The whole of the EU couldn't take on Serbia without US assistance. I had hoped to see NATO disbanded, Europe to expand naturally to the Urals and all of us living without the need for armies and saber-rattling but it was too much to hope for, evidently. Such a shame.

reddit is a bunch of idiotic kids

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot forever!

Re:reddit is a bunch of idiotic kids

[HornWumpus]

More reliable than the New York Times.

I know, faint praise.

It would have

[Anonymous Coward]

Had JC not blown up the Aquinas router.

Thank you, Slashdot readers

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello, Slashdot readers! I am here to thank you for your continued support. For the past 17 years, you've made me your most trusted source of patriotism. I am grateful to all of you who have supported me by modding me up and have thanked me for my posts. I am proud to have served you for 17 years by exposing how virtually all niiggers, towelheads, kikes, wetbacks, chinks, and other darkies are constantly working to undermine American society. My hate is strong, and I'm damned proud of it. In fact, my hate is getting stronger as I talk to you people. My hate of the darkies inspires me to continue providing all of you with the patriotism you've come to know and trust. In the coming days and weeks, big changes are coming to allow me to better serve you as Slashdot readers' most trusted source of patriotism. I'm looking forward to serving you for at least another 17 years. Thank you!

Re:Thank you, Slashdot readers

[Anonymous Coward]

May Kek's highest praises be upon your brow for your dedication and hard work, /b/rother!

Reddit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? Reddit, the epitome of censorship and groupthink circlejerks? Only slashdot compares to that cesspit.

And yeah, Facebook, Twitter and Snapchat all suck balls too.

Re:Reddit?

[Anonymous Coward]

And yeah, Facebook, Twitter and Snapchat all suck balls too.

But they suck a lot less balls than YouPorn, RedTube and PornHub.

Re:Reddit?

[HornWumpus]

But facebook, twitter, snapchat and formerly gawker suck _donkey_ balls. Which I admit I haven't looked for on YouPorn etc.

Re:Reddit?

[Anonymous Coward]

> groupthink circlejerks

Like /r/politics that is supposed to be neutral but all 25 stories on their frontpage are anti-Trump.

Re: Reddit?

[Anonymous Coward]

Those have more intelligent comments

Re: Reddit?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Neutrality" in the minds of the extreme leftists who mod most subreddits is somewhere around "Communist totalitarianism" for everyone else.

Re: Reddit?

[Anonymous Coward]

literally.

Re:Reddit?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not hard when even your "front page" filters topics so that they never appear. The "everybody gets to vote on every message" model is inherently flawed, but Reddit's moderation and site management are flawed as well.

Re: Reddit?

[Anonymous Coward]

They want 94% income tax rate like we had under Roosevelt.

Re: Reddit?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have direct experience with that? Get off my lawn!

I give it about 4 years

[rsilvergun]

assuming Chelsea doesn't run.

Re:I give it about 4 years

[HornWumpus]

Ds sure look like they will pivot left. Trump has a decent chance at a second term if they do.

Re:I give it about 4 years

[Anonymous Coward]

Trump has a decent chance at a second term if they do.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Re: I give it about 4 years

[Anonymous Coward]

Donald Trump will win his second term. Then Ivanka will run and win after that. Let me assure you, you and lot of leftists won't be pleased when the first female president of the USA is a conservative Republican Trump!

Re:I give it about 4 years

[HornWumpus]

Short memory. You were laughing six months ago weren't you?

Re:I give it about 4 years

[ScentCone]

Is that the exact same number of HAs that you used when someone first mentioned to you the idea of Trump running in the first place? Thought so.

Re:I give it about 4 years

[meta-monkey]

Keep laughing. Dems are fucked. They're an alliance between ideological leftists and minority grievance groups. If they stick with the grievance politics, they further alienate the working class, pushing them to Trump. If they tone down the identity politics and address working class economic issues, that means pandering to or at least not constantly shitting on poor white people, which will "betray" the "fuck straight white christian males" BLM/feminist crowd.

Dems can't win because the only thing holding them together is a shared hatred of everyone outside the cities. That doesn't win elections.

Re:I give it about 4 years

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the Leftists would have a better chance of winning than the Clinton or Centrist factions of the party. Proof: during the primaries, Bernie alone had the numbers to rival Trump. In fact, had the Dems not rigged the game for Hilary, and been open to giving the voters what they wanted, Bernie would have won all the Hilary states, PLUS most of the battleground states - MI, PA and OH (I think WI, FL and NC would have gone GOP no matter what).

If Bernie runs again and the Dems are smart enough not to sabotage him a second time, he could give Trump a run for his money. However, winning the battleground states will be more difficult since Trump now has the opportunity to wean away union votes. Of course, a lot could depend on how the healthcare issue pans out - if the GOP chokes on that, the Dems would have a lifeline.

Bottom line: politics is not what it was in the 90s or 00s. During that time, words like 'socialism' were radioactive. Not so today, when most of the Gen Y crowd are people with little memory of the Cold War, and the most anti-American generation in a while. If Bernie won the nomination, he could win the general election just like Obama did in 2008

Re:I give it about 4 years

[HornWumpus]

Rs were voting for Bernie the same as Ds were voting for Trump in the primaries.

They were also not publicising things statements like 'I support Castro'. Bernie is unelectable.

The Ds will more than likely nominate one of the mainstream candidates that stayed out last cycle (it was the bitches turn), but if they nominate pocahontas or bernie, it will be a bad skunking for them.

Re:I give it about 4 years

[Anonymous Coward]

Problem is that they still have a lock on a major part of the Blue Wall. Republicans can't keep on writing off states like CA, NY and IL election after election and expect to keep winning. Particularly since there are ethnic shifts going on in states like GA and NC that make them increasingly purple, and so the GOP has to have a plan to win back these big 3.

Re: I give it about 4 years

[Anonymous Coward]

Get over it, dems don't hate people outside of cities. Every time I see you userid it is associated with a half truth or outright slander. Always seems to ascribe words and thoughts to the left. You fight strawmen like Quixote fought the windmills.

Sites like reddit still have a problem with bias

[Anonymous Coward]

For example, there's only one popular subreddit that isn't horrifically bad anti-Trump. I don't like Trump, but the hate there for him is beyond irrational. For example, on the front page of /r/politics, there's 25 articles and all 25 are anti-Trump. It's supposed to be a politically neutral subreddit.

The Good Internet?

[epyT-R]

You mean the one where discriminators like race, sex, country, etc didn't matter? Where free speech reigned and all that mattered was the argument made? The one that routed around censorious assholes and their insecurities?

Gawker? Nick Denton? Oh. So not 'that' internet after all.

Re:The Good Internet?

[AmiMoJo]

The net was never the great paradise of free speech some people seem to think it was. Back when Usenet was popular it was also moderated. Once the number of users grew it quickly became a cesspit of spam and trolling.

So then people moved to mailing lists, also moderated, and forums, also moderated. 2ch was the first to offer anonymous posting but even then wasn't without rules and limits. 4chan, the English language clone of it, is the same, banning certain topics and behaviour.

It's obvious why. Once you get a decent number of users/viewers, costs increase and the people hosting your site/servers and the people advertising on your site set out rules.

I don't see that as a problem. There is still 8chan and the dark web, absolute freedom of speech is still available (although if discovered you might get sued or go to jail IRL), and if controversial ideas are good they will eventually become more mainstream.

The people upset about this generally just want to bypass the obscurity phase and broadcast their messages to a wide audience that doesn't want to listen.

Re:The Good Internet?

[epyT-R]

I never said it wasn't moderated. Usenet and the other early systems were only 'cesspools' to thin skinned idiots with bad arguments.

I don't see that as a problem.

I bet you would if the banned topics included your viewpoints. Therein lies the hypocrisy of modern social justice. You would not be defending that advertiser excuse either. You'd attack it as evidence of 'systemic bigotry.'

The people upset about this generally just want to bypass the obscurity phase and broadcast their messages to a wide audience that doesn't want to listen.

Like MLK? The suffragettes? Had they existed during the internet era, should they have been censored for speaking their minds to that 'wide audience that doesn't want to listen'? Should they have been sued or jailed? I think you need to reevaluate your politics.

Re:The Good Internet?

[Hognoxious]

Back when Usenet was popular it was also moderated.

Some groups were, some groups weren't. Don't believe everything your grandpa says, kid.

Fuck Denton

[Anonymous Coward]

Denton and Gawker played a crucial role in creating the divisive world that we now live in by pushing bullshit as journalism and pushing modern social justice cultism. I have no sympathy for him and I'm glad Gawker is dead.

Re:Fuck Denton

[HornWumpus]

Has he paid off his judgement? How can he afford to waste money on a NYTimes sub? He should be spending his days blowing sailors to raise funds to satisfy the judgement.

Pay the bills

[Okian Warrior]

The problem comes directly from the "pay the bills" mentality

"Pay the bills" means clicks on advertizing, which translates to grabbing eyeballs and attention using any means possible.

"Any means" has descended into outrageous and unsupportable claims intended to promote outrage or interest in the reader. Anything and everything that can make the reader outraged is fair came in the advertizing war.

It's become so obvious that there are specific memes and word phrases which are now *avoided* because of their fake usage. "...using this one weird trick", "top ten some-trivia-thing", "such-and-so you need to know", and so on.

Newspapers have always slanted the truth towards outrage and reader engagement a little, but with the feeding frenzy of internet it's now become a completely unhinged cage fight for reader attention.

Complete and total lies are now allowed, rumor and innuendo can be published without vetting for accuracy, reversal of meaning and impact is commonplace.

Many MSM articles simply report tweets that people make; and no, I'm not referring to Trump either. Some random headlines:

Many in this county are poor and sick, and they voted for Trump. What will happen to their health care?

It's way too soon to panic about Fed rate hikes

Rep. Steve King warns that 'our civilization' can't be restored with 'somebody else's babies'

Is any of this news? Which of these tells us what is happening?

Nothing about the MSM is authentic any more, and neither is twitter or facebook. Journalistic integrity and important freedoms (speech, assembly, and press) have been swept aside in the race for readership, political correctness, and promotion of one partisan side.

It's no wonder people are flocking to other sites.

Current events are far less controversial than the internet makes them out to be.

Re:Pay the bills

[Anonymous Coward]

you know it was like this in old print media too. It was just harder to show to many other readers the fake news, or yellow reporting. Now it is easier to blow the whistle as it were. Same shit. Different day.

Re:Pay the bills

[Kohath]

Man, you just don't understand how important it is to preach the one true politics. Why do you hate progress? Don't you know the world will end unless we save it by quoting people out of context and telling each other made up stories about the future?

Re:Pay the bills

[Anonymous Coward]

"Pay the bills" means clicks on advertizing, which translates to grabbing eyeballs and attention using any means possible.

Wouldn't there be room for sites that simply don't rely on ads? Either donations (like Wikipedia), or simply not scaling up if it costs too much, instead being picky about who its users are.

Re:Pay the bills

[phantomfive]

The problem comes directly from the "pay the bills" mentality "Pay the bills" means clicks on advertizing, which translates to grabbing eyeballs and attention using any means possible.

This is why I think ad block is a moral imperative.

I used to oppose ad-block, because I thought it was good to support websites I like (I still leave it off on some certain sites).
Eventually I started using ad-block for practicality: until malware is kept out of ads, it's foolish to not use it. Websites with malware ads deserve to lose money, they are acting with hostility.
Finally I now use ad-block fundamentally: turning the internet into an eyeball machine has dramatically reduced the quality. I'd rather pay for content I like (and some websites have had success with that, Mother Jones, for example).

Re:Pay the bills

[serviscope_minor]

Rep. Steve King warns that 'our civilization' can't be restored with 'somebody else's babies'

Is any of this news? Which of these tells us what is happening?

"politician makes a public statement on X" is and always had been news. Doubly so when it's in some way controversial, stupid or outrageous.

Re:Pay the bills

[Anonymous Coward]

"Mainstream politician flies dangerously close to the wind using white supremacist rhetoric" is perhaps more accurate.
A friend of mine, a white guy with English as his first language, emigrated to the US about 10 years ago and I''m concerned for him, so the situation for people who aren't white, don't speak English as a first language and don't have a safe refuge to be extradited to is significantly worse. He could pass someone in the street without comment if he didn't speak, yet even Americans of Afro-Caribbean descent *still* get suspicious looks; can you imagine how bad it is for someone who looks even vaguely Arabic or Middle-Eastern? The more we are driven apart, the easier we are to control.

Re:Pay the bills

[meta-monkey]

telling each other made up stories about the future?

This is one of the most annoying things about current "news" media. They're not telling you what happened anymore they're trying to predict (or scare you about) what might happen. CNN musing about what might happen if Horrible Evil Republican Idea #23431 is enacted is not news. Humans are terrible at predicting the future.

Re:Pay the bills

[meta-monkey]

Doubly so when it's in some way controversial, stupid or outrageous.

I think it's sad anyone finds King's statement controversial. It's both common sense and undeniably true. Name a civilization that can be restored or propagated with somebody else's babies. You can't restore the Islamic Golden Age with Christian babies. You can't spread Chinese civilization with black babies. You can't preserve African culture with Japanese babies. You can't strengthen Japanese civilization with Australian aborigine babies.

The sun rises in the east, water is wet, grass is green, western civilization needs western babies. Where's the controversy?

Talk about irony...

[Anonymous Coward]

I spot this story on a slashdot page which has horribly borked itself since the last time I looked a couple of days ago. I assume umatrix is blocking some essential piece of BS javascript from somewhere which it now needs to 'render' properly.

'The Good Internet' is long dead, the Eternal September and marketing drones took care of that, what we have today is at best a litch covered in gaudy geegaws..

It's way too useful a 'social control' tool to allow the masses access to unfettered free exchange of information, the way we used to have.

Places like Reddit are naught but circle-jerkery of a high order, A Reddit user (Denton) looking down on Facebook and Twitter users is somewhat quite risible, it reminds me a lot of the good old days when certain groups of internet users looked down on TV viewers as being unthinking 'untermensch'..

It's all social control..

He should change his name to...

[wjcofkc]

Ad Hominem

Logis, Ethos, Pathos

[Okian Warrior]

This idiot is one of the people that has made the internet so unpleasant.

One of the perennial problems with on Slashdot is that arguments can simply attack the person making them.

The greeks noted that arguments are made from "logos", "ethos", and "pathos". "Logos" is the logical basis of your argument, "Pathos" is the emotional appeal of your argument, and "Ethos" is the character of the person making the argument.

Thus, here on slashdot we can't discuss constitutional abuse of Kim Dotcom because he's an asshole, we can't discuss wikileaks because Assange is an attention whore, and we can't discuss CIA snooping because Snowden is a traitor.

It's so easy to dismiss an argument out of hand just by pointing out that the person making an argument is somehow inferior.

Nick Denton is such a completely rotten individual that this is not a valid issue that nerds should discuss or post views and opinions about.

Re:Logis, Ethos, Pathos

[Anonymous Coward]

we can't discuss constitutional abuse of Kim Dotcom because he's an asshole, we can't discuss wikileaks because Assange is an attention whore, and we can't discuss CIA snooping because Snowden is a traitor.

Kim Dotcom didn't violate constitutional law, Assange didn't run a state department that subverted nominally friendly countries, and Snowden wasn't responsible for any snooping programs. But Nick Denton is as guilty as anyone - and more than most - for the terrible state of internet media. It doesn't mean that his point is wrong, but it does make him a hypocrit.

Re:Logis, Ethos, Pathos

[phantomfive]

A lot of times the issue can be addressed by referring to the argument hierarchy, where lower levels are worse, higher levels are better. For a fuller exposition, Paul Graham goes into it.

TBH sometimes the lower levels are the most fun, but the top is the most satisfying.

Re:Logis, Ethos, Pathos

[Anonymous Coward]

Thus why every well-meaning person should post AC. :P

Re: Logis, Ethos, Pathos

[Anonymous Coward]

Paul Graham? Really? In my opinion, the modding, group-think and totalitarianism at Hacker News is generally far worse than at even the worst subreddits.

Re: Logis, Ethos, Pathos

[phantomfive]

Is that a joke? lol. You're at the bottom level of the argument pyramid.

Re: Logis, Ethos, Pathos

[cyber-vandal]

Nick Denton complaining about the rotten state of internet discourse is like Rupert Murdoch complaining about unethical journalism.

Re:Logis, Ethos, Pathos

[Anonymous Coward]

Well if you hadn't spent the entire US election period being one of the key figures posting multiple times in every single thread on every single topic about how we shouldn't listen to Hillary because she's Hillary then maybe I'd have more sympathy for your complaint.

But given that you're one of the most prolific bottom feeders on Slashdot when it comes to dragging down the quality of conversation by going ad-hominem then you'll have to excuse me if I can't help but point out that if the state of discourse on Slashdot offends you in this context then you only have yourself to blame.

Re:Logis, Ethos, Pathos

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the perennial problems with on Slashdot is that arguments can simply attack the person making them.

The greeks noted that arguments are made from "logos", "ethos", and "pathos". "Logos" is the logical basis of your argument, "Pathos" is the emotional appeal of your argument, and "Ethos" is the character of the person making the argument.

Because shit people shield themselves with good causes. Both ND and KDC are great examples of this. They should both be ignored like the tens of thousands of other people who face injustice that nobody hears about.

Also nobody cares about your philosophy class, we're all plenty smart here and unimpressed that you went to school, save it for the plebs on facebook.

He doesn't know what a "good internet" is.

[Gravis Zero]

This, the man behind the abomination that was Gawker, does not understand what's really detracting from the value of the internet. It's an overload of people (like him) looking to cash in on users that has resulted in the worst elements of the internet. Honestly, who thinks pages that pull elements from 25+ different domains are going to end up being anything but garbage looking to exploit it's users?

Re:He doesn't know what a "good internet" is.

[Anonymous Coward]

Gosh, I guess it's a good thing Slashdot only pulls from 21 different domains! This must be the "good" Intarwebz I've been learnin' about!

The Good Internet

[93 Escort Wagon]

Starring Julianna Margulies. Coming this fall - only on CBS All Access.

Only one way to fix it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Come up with a new one. I don't care if it is held up with paper clips and chewing gum! The present one is being scrubbed of anything good and turned into trash.

And all the Internet forum posts

[Anonymous Coward]

... will be above average.

Only if

[Anonymous Coward]

We get rid of rampant commercialization, ( sure, bills have to be paid, but its WAY out of hand ) and everyone goes 'dark' and 'distributed' to take control back.

The "good internet" never died

[GuB-42]

The internet is better than ever.
It is now so easy to find information on even the smallest thing it is incredible.
People whine about "fake news". Sure, there are fake news, bullshit flying around every corner, etc... But now, you can actually check things more easily than before. I realized how much bullshit I was fed decades ago and thanks to the internet, I am now able to recognize as such. The reason I believed so much bullshit is that I simply didn't have other sources. Now, with just a few Google and Wikipedia searches, you can find the answer backed by primary sources with every debatable point discussed by competent people.
Fake news and other bullshit have always existed. They are easier to identify now. I say we are going in the right direction.
The only trap that I think we must be weary about is that it is now much easier to fall into an echo chamber. However all resources to get out of it are right here, both in term of counterarguments and in ways to overcomes ones cognitive biases. I think that we'll learn and things will continue getting better.

Piss in the well

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't poison something then say "It will heal itself" and expect to be taken seriously.

If he said he had plans to make things better I'm listening. Otherwise, fuck you Nick Denton.

ac 4 lyfe

[Anonymous Coward]

Nick Denton is a self righteous ass who's been at the forefront of shitting up the internet. His idea of a better internet is probably heavily moderated internet circlejerks which promote his own political and social opinions (that's how you know they're "good") and censor/ban all others.

Re:ac 4 lyfe

[reboot246]

You nailed it. There's nothing left to add.

Fuck you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Go fuck yourself, Denton. You festering piece of mother fucking shit.

Tragedy

[Anonymous Coward]

... Facebook makes me despise many of my friends and Twitter makes me hate the rest of the world.

You're saying, giving everybody an equal voice for free isn't working: Information may want to be free but producing it costs and those unwashed masses shouting "Look at me" don't want that responsibility and that expense, so they produce worthless information, meaning valuable information isn't destroyed but it is buried. It's a tragedy of the commons problem.

Revenue through advertising worked when information flowed in one direction, like with radio or television, or even newspaper. It doesn't work when every idiot can jump onto a web-page and shout "The world owes me" or "Fuck you, I got mine" and it's worse when idiots can do it anonymously. This is the first reason those idiots have become the source of income; the second is, those idiots won't pay for the valuable information that they actually want; the third is, web-page providers want subscribers to provide an easy, fixed revenue while netizens can't pay $20/month, or even $10/month, for every site they visit.

... other social media sites ...

So his social media site is a "model for what [media] could be" while other sites breed the scum of humanity. From what I hear, Reddit and its echo chambers aren't a example of a productive community. Their shining example is the worthless outcomes achieved by crowd-sourcing the manhunt during the Boston marathon bombing.

Good Internet...

[Martin S.]

Doesn't seem to extend to Sir Tim Berners-Lee getting an airing on slashdot.

https://slashdot.org/popular

Due to Cliff Stoll's inspiration to me, this helps

[Anonymous Coward]

In a conversation w/ me here on /., he inspired this APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-7 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/

Ads/script & malware rob speed/security/privacy

Hosts add speed (via hardcodes/adblocks), security (vs. bad sites/malware/poisoned dns), reliability (vs. dns down), & anonymity (vs. dns requestlogs/trackers).

Less power/cpu/ram + IO use vs. DNS/routers/addons/antivirus + less security bugs/complexity & faster vs. addons/routers/remote dns!

Avoids DNSChangers in routers/IP settings & dns redirects (99.999% of ISP DNS != patched vs. it) + lightens DNS load & resolves faster from local system RAM!

* Via what u NATIVELY have built into the IP stack in FASTER kernelmode!

APK

P.S. - Safe https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e01211ca36aa02e923f20adee0a3c4f5d5187dc65bdf1c997b3da3c2b0745425/analysis/1433430542/

Are you fucking kidding me.

[Anonymous Coward]

reddit sucks donkey balls.
The first two years or so perhaps. But the shit show it is now.
It is not one reddit now it is thousands of reddits with their very own Hitler for each one.
I rather poke my eyes out than figure the rules of each sub before making a stupid reply to any fucking thing.
Fuck that shit.

At least here I dont have to log in and I can say what the fuck I want when I fucking want to

No Mr. Slashdot points the way to the future

what "crisis"?

[ooloorie]

And he attempted to address America's politically-charged atmosphere where professional news organizations struggled to pay their bills while still producing quality journalism. The internet played a huge role in this crisis

What "crisis"? Newspaper corporations and giant media corporations going out of business because the cost of producing and disseminating news has fallen is not a "crisis", it's a good thing. For that matter, the abolition of a profession whose main tools for money making were monopolization of information and making deals with the wealthy and powerful is also a good thing. As for Denton and Gawker, they are instances and examples of the rotten state of journalism, and they aren't even the worst.

Isn't Reddit the new Slashdot?

[SuperKendall]

Disclaimer, I mostly read Slashdot, hardly ever Reddit... and I really do not like Nick Denton.

That said, isn't Reddit about 10x more popular (or more!) than Slashdot??

And if facebook makes him despise his "friends," that really says a lot about him and the "friendships" that he has.

Yes, it says that he actually has a diverse variety of friends. I have both conservative and liberal friends, so on Facebook I get a pretty constant stream of stuff I not only disagree with, but really kind of hate. But that's OK because I know I'm never going to agree with everything someone thinks, and despite disagreements I still value them as friends.

If you don't have a diverse variety of friends, I pity what must be a very isolated bubble, free of strife sure but also free of truly deep bonds.

Again, I don't like Denton and can't even see being friends with him. But I think what he is saying is absolutely correct.

Re:Isn't Reddit the new Slashdot?

[Baron_Yam]

>That said, isn't Reddit about 10x more popular (or more!) than Slashdot??

Probably. But while Slashdot is not without its faults, Reddit's designed with them intentionally.

Community moderation by self-elected individuals (with professionals only stepping in if it looks like it could affect Reddit legally, and then only with the corporation's best interests in mind as is to be expected) means Reddit is fractured into thousands of toxic echo chambers, and discussion consists of chasing 'karma'. That in turn results in people posting 'easy karma' meme posts, agreeing mindlessly with groupthink, and no way to filter genuine discussion-driving dissent from trolling.

But it 'works' because it's ego-driven and people eat that shit up even as it makes them miserable.

Re:Isn't Reddit the new Slashdot?

[PopeRatzo]

But that's OK because I know I'm never going to agree with everything someone thinks, and despite disagreements I still value them as friends.

This is the truth.

If you don't have a diverse variety of friends, I pity what must be a very isolated bubble, free of strife sure but also free of truly deep bonds.

You're right.

Re:Isn't Reddit the new Slashdot?

[SuperKendall]

means Reddit is fractured into thousands of toxic echo chambers

But that is the endpoint of any internet forum, when you break down anything into a small enough space the ecosystem is not toxic to the inhabitants therein.

Just what do you think the toxic people would be doing if not readng/posting to Reddit? The answer cannot be good. There needs to be basically a cultural heat-sync to absorb truly aberrant opinion before it reaches physical manifestation.

But it 'works' because it's ego-driven and people eat that shit up even as it makes them miserable.

Seems fine to me, even though that's why I don't read Reddit (much). Whatever makes people happy - including things that make them sad....

Re:Isn't Reddit the new Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

> That said, isn't Reddit about 10x more popular (or more!) than Slashdot??

Well, Reddit has some pretty great porn sub-reddits. There are bunches of crappy sub-reddits, but there are also good ones out there (if you don't like one sub, there's usually a splinter faction with a slightly different name). /r/battlestations is pretty good to check out peopel's computer rigs.

Re:Isn't Reddit the new Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

What you consider faults in reddit are actually its strengths. Global "professional" moderators are a horrible idea. You also assume everyone cares about karma as well.

Re:Isn't Reddit the new Slashdot?

[meta-monkey]

Whatever makes people happy

Happy isn't always useful, though. Echo chambers tend to make people happy, but are not useful for meaningful discussion, finding common ground with those who think differently, evaluation of new ideas, etc.

Reddit just results in echo chambers because the voting system requires a level of conscientiousness most people simply do not have. You're supposed to vote up comments that contribute to the discussion, and downvote comments that do not contribute to the discussion. Instead people upvote things that agree with them (i.e., the emergent groupthink) and downvote dissent. So for instance if someone posts on /r/AskReddit what they think about, say, illegal immigration, you would want the top comments to be the very best arguments for open borders (or against harsh enforcement of immigration laws) and the very best arguments against illegal immigration.You could actually use that to hear the best arguments from all sides and decide what makes the most sense to you! That would be useful! Instead you'll get the top comments are stupid quips about how anyone who doesn't want open borders is an evil hateful racist who irrationally despises the Mexican race and any thoughtful comment laying out the case for enforcement of immigration laws will be at -1000 karma and hidden from view. This is not useful.

Slashdot works better because 1) the karma gain or loss from a post is not extreme and 2) meta-moderation. There's no penalty for fucking up the moderation system on reddit and upvoting low-effort crap and downvoting worthwhile comments. There is on Slashdot. The meta-moderator who doesn't have a dog in your political fight is going to see you marking an insightful but controversial comment as flamebait because you disagree with it, mark it unfair, and you'll take a hit to your moderation privileges. So you think twice before you do that.

To be honest, I think the slashcode system is the only internet moderation system I've ever seen that actually works somewhat effectively.

Re:Isn't Reddit the new Slashdot?

[Aighearach]

isn't Reddit about 10x more popular (or more!) than Slashdot??

Madonna is more popular than reddit, but that doesn't make her the new slashdot, either.

Are nerds even supposed to be popular? Where did you get this theory?

The internet did not make people assholes

[Osgeld]

We were always assholes, now shut up asshole, if you dont like a site don't go to it, that fucking simple

Reddit, really? That leftist site?

[sethstorm]

sites like Reddit which involve their reader community

The future isn't with narrative-controlled places like Reddit.

It already exists

[Anonymous Coward]

- Facebook and the 'News Feed' may be cancerous, but Facebook Groups - especially those centered around a topic like Reddit, are not.
- Stackoverflow.com (and the Stack Exchange network of sites in general) exist, and managed to obliterate the Q&A 'paywalled answers' format which was popular in the mid-00s (expertsExchange.com), and built a thriving community
- For all the shit-talking it gets, Wikipedia does exist as a good, reliable general reference source for many people across the world.
- YouTube tutorials. Free, instructor-led mini-classes on everything from Photoshop to soldering to changing a tire. Sure, there's crappy ones but for every crappy one there's someone that takes pride in the presentation of their tutorials.

The internet IS good. It has already risen.

Re:It already exists

[Anonymous Coward]

StackOverflow has been taken over by H1Bs and clueless lazy bros.

Due to Cliff Stoll's inspiration to me, this helps

[Anonymous Coward]

In a conversation w/ me here on /., he inspired this APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-7 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/

Ads/script & malware rob speed/security/privacy

Hosts add speed (via hardcodes/adblocks), security (vs. bad sites/malware/poisoned dns), reliability (vs. dns down), & anonymity (vs. dns requestlogs/trackers).

Less power/cpu/ram + IO use vs. DNS/routers/addons/antivirus + less security bugs/complexity & faster vs. addons/routers/remote dns!

Avoids DNSChangers in routers/IP settings & dns redirects (99.999% of ISP DNS != patched vs. it) + lightens DNS load & resolves faster from local system RAM!

* Via what u NATIVELY have built into the IP stack in FASTER kernelmode!

APK

P.S. - Safe https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e01211ca36aa02e923f20adee0a3c4f5d5187dc65bdf1c997b3da3c2b0745425/analysis/1433430542/

Facebook

[Anonymous Coward]

Facebook is for women and gays.

Social Media Experience

[Anonymous Coward]

"Facebook makes me despise many of my friends and Twitter makes me hate the rest of the world,"

Then perhaps you should find better "friends."

The social media experience is mostly as good or as bad as you allow it to be. It's like going to a large public park. Do you want to spend your time with the dudes playing chess and talking about history, the ghetto thugs trying to push dope, the pre-teen brats who thing farts are the highest form of humor, or the people having some friendly competition on the soccer field?

You're going to hear the shouts from the other groups from time to time, sure, but for most people your core experience has everything to do with the people you choose to associate with. The experience of famous people is going to differ, of course, but for most of us, it's all about whose accounts we choose to follow / attach to / friend / whatever - and it's also all about your own personal state of mind.

Gawker

[p51d007]

Funny...the lDIOT who was feeding false information, stealing videos etc, is NOW concerned about the "good" internet?

Re: Gawker

[Entrope]

He learned his lesson!

The lesson is, make sure you stay just on the "right" side of legal precedent.

fagoRz

[Anonymous Coward]

States that there so that you don't share. FreeBSD is head sPinning she had no fear be fun. It used prima donnas, and very sick and its Fueling internal who sell another fact came into is not prone to you all is to let that they can hold you are a screaming sling, Return it to visit Out of business BUT MANY FIND IT need to scream that are 7000 users maintained that too ransom for their Be a cock-sucking goodbye...she had fatal mistakes, An operating system be a lot slower by BSDI who sell charnel house. it a break, if World's Gay Nigger tangle of fatal the time to meet Came as a complete As fittingly BUWLA, or BSD that supports vitality. Its would like to Java IRC client Today. It's about that they sideline or a public club, I thought it was my look at the

Reddit is crap.

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you're there to shill. Or whine about trump.

At least it still has cat pictures.

Hah!

[Anonymous Coward]

'The Good Internet' no longer exists. It's now referred to as the 'SHITNet'.

Ahem...

[Anonymous Coward]

Reddit is no different to Twitter or Facebook. Basically, anywhere were iser driven content appears, so do bots and embedded gov agents.

The "Good Internet"?

[nine-times]

I question what he means by "the good Internet" if it's going to be brought about by reddit, Google Hangouts, and iMessage. Maybe I'm just being an old fogey, but to me, when you say, "The good Internet will rise again," my mind jumps to a time of text-only email, Usenet, and IRC. Basically, a time when people were trying to create and use open protocols so that anyone could run a server, instead of a bunch of proprietary "social networking" sites and services controlling your experience.

It may seem like I'm changing the subject, but to me, it's highly relevant to what he's talking about. A lot of the prior civility came from people forming their own communities on services that they were able to run themselves. One services like Facebook and Twitter, those platforms control the experience, control which posts you see and what order they're displayed in, and make decisions based on increasing engagement in order to sell advertising. The services that he cites (reddit, iMessage, Hangouts) have something in common with the old-style Internet in that they allow you to form your own communities and control your own engagement with them. One of the big differences, however, is that when you can control the service, you can keep it that way. You're reliant on Apple, Conde Nast, and Google to keep iMessage, reddit, and Hangouts in their current format, and I wouldn't bet on them being the same in 5 years. However, you're able to set up your own email, IRC, or Usenet server, and nobody can really force you to turn it into something you don't want.

Now I'm not saying that we should all be using IRC and Usenet. Technology progresses, and we're always finding better ways of doing things. My point is, we shouldn't be relying on closed, proprietary, ad-supported apps and websites. We need new open protocols. In the same way that anyone can set up their own email service or even build their own email client and server software, we need to enable people to set up their own texting, IM, VoIP, video conferencing, social networking, and forum services. And I don't just mean, "You should be able to set up your own Slack clone," which you obviously can, but you should be able to build a Slack clone and set up a competing Slack service that then allows you to communicate with Slack users. And Facebook users. And Google users. Because they should all use the same protocol.

So... Back to USENET?

[Anonymous Coward]

Before it was a spam sink? (catpcha is 'deformed')

Nothing of Substance Offered

[Koreantoast]

vOn Google Hangouts chats or iMessage you can exchange quotes, links, stories, media," he said. "That's a delightful, engaging media experience..."

Or a great way to create a media echo chamber. You know, kind of like my aunt Facebook.

The next phase of media is going to come out of the idea of authentic, chill conversation about things that matter.

Maybe its just me, but the only time I've ever had "authentic, chill conversation" on hot button items are when you have personal links to an individual to know that they are human even if you disagree with them on politics. Even then, that backstop might not be sufficient. There is no alternate vision laid out here for how the Internet can be great again. Instead, this sounds like just empty hope that the current situation is merely a temporary byproduct of a weird political time and that everything will just magically go back to normal.

I remember the Good Internet back in 1998 ...

[Anonymous Coward]

...but don't let Nick Denton distract you from the fact that in 1998, The Undertaker threw Mankind off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table

"The Good Internet"

[Rick Schumann]

You want to make the Internet 'good' again? First make the 'monetization' of the users illegal; no more collection of user data to sell to marketers (or give to the government surveillance junkies). That's the easy part. The next part is nigh-unto impossible: make people be as nice to each other as if they were face-to-face. Not going to happen. Really, the only way the Internet is good for anything at this point, is if you use it in a read-only manner: use it for information (from credible sources) and maybe for person-to-person communication (via email or direct chat). Shopping, banking, paying your bills, interacting with government agencies? Sure, but until Item #1 is taken care of (data collection is illegal) you're at risk of being snooped on, 'collected', 'surveilled', and 'monetized' for someone elses' benefit. Sadly, I think the 'golden age' of the Internet is long gone and won't be coming back. Dark web, maybe? Set up your own sub-Internet? Maybe. For the average person that's beyond their capability though.

Due to Cliff Stoll's inspiration to me, this helps

[Anonymous Coward]

In a conversation w/ me here on /., he inspired this APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-7 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/

Ads/script & malware rob speed/security/privacy

Hosts add speed (via hardcodes/adblocks), security (vs. bad sites/malware/poisoned dns), reliability (vs. dns down), & anonymity (vs. dns requestlogs/trackers).

Less power/cpu/ram + IO use vs. DNS/routers/addons/antivirus + less security bugs/complexity & faster vs. addons/routers/remote dns!

Avoids DNSChangers in routers/IP settings & dns redirects (99.999% of ISP DNS != patched vs. it) + lightens DNS load & resolves faster from local system RAM!

* Via what u NATIVELY have built into the IP stack in FASTER kernelmode!

APK

P.S. - Safe https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e01211ca36aa02e923f20adee0a3c4f5d5187dc65bdf1c997b3da3c2b0745425/analysis/1433430542/

Fuck Reddit

[Anonymous Coward]

It is nothing but unemployed teenagers jacking each other off instead of working.