Elon Musk Launches Neuralink To Connect Brains With Computers (businessinsider.com)

At Recode's conference last year, Elon Musk said he would love to see someone do something about linking human brains with computers. With no other human being volunteering, Mr. Musk -- who founded PayPal and OpenAI, thought of Hyperloop, is working on a boring company, and runs SpaceX, TeslaX, SolarCity -- is now working on it. From a report on WSJ: Internal sources tell the WSJ that the company, called Neuralink, is developing "neural lace" technology that would allow people to communicate directly with machines without going through a physical interface. Neural lace involves implanting electrodes in the brain so people could upload or download their thoughts to or from a computer, according to the WSJ report. The product could allow humans to achieve higher levels of cognitive function. From WSJ's report (paywalled): The founder and chief executive of Tesla and Space Exploration Technologies Corp.has launched another company called Neuralink Corp., according to people familiar with the matter. Neuralink is pursuing what Mr. Musk calls "neural lace" technology, implanting tiny brain electrodes that may one day upload and download thoughts. Mr. Musk didn't respond to a request for comment. Max Hodak, who said he is a "member of the founding team," confirmed the company's existence and Mr. Musk's involvement.

Comments

First Experiment

[jgaynor]

Find out how many times you can ghost dub an augmented cyberbrain before the owner becomes catatonic.

Actual article

[daveschroeder]

Original article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/e... (WSJ paywall)

Other coverage: http://www.businessinsider.com...

I saw this on an episode of black mirror once

[Anonymous Coward]

Worked great for the user

cool!

[Anonymous Coward]

so the ship to Mars will be like a Borg cube?

Thanks, but no thanks.

[Rick Schumann]

We can't even secure our non-brain-connected computers, devices, vehicles, etc, from outside intrusion, why in the world would I want to open the door for someone to hack my brain through a computer? Thanks, but no thanks. I'll leave my brain standalone and air-gapped from computers and the internet. The last thing anyone needs is some script-kiddie deciding to brick someone's head for the lulz. Also this would potentially redefine what a 'botnet' is. Nope, nope, nope.

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[Spy Handler]

You wouldn't get your brain hacked, that's silly. It would just be a better version of the currently existing human interface (keyboard input, VGA output).

If your desktop gets hacked, you don't worry about someone hacking your fingers or eyeballs, do you? Well with this brain interface if your computer gets hacked, the worst thing would happen is that the hacker would beam annoying images directly to your brain (instead of displaying it on your VGA monitor) and maybe fuck around with your keyboard mappings so your brainwave commands to the computer don't work properly.

Solution to a hacked PC would be to disconnect it from your brain electrode and de-hack your PC manually, or get another PC.

Hopefully the connection from PC to your brain would be wireless, so a hacker can't actually zap your brain with electrical voltage. But even if it's wired, you could put a good mechanical fuse or circuit breaker in between the PC and your brain so only tolerable voltages are ever transmitted.

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[zlives]

i wonder if this will enable Eula reading which may or may not reference the read only clause of brain.

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[TheRealMindChild]

Burn: Cycle

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[Rick Schumann]

Connecting a computer to your brain is not 'evolution' in any sense of the word. It's just more toys that we may or may not need.
You want real evolution of man? How about our brains evolve to not need computers at all anymore? Maybe computers are just a crutch.

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[Rick Schumann]

Sure, in this iteration of the idea. What about the next?

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[flink]

You wouldn't get your brain hacked, that's silly. It would just be a better version of the currently existing human interface (keyboard input, VGA output).

There is evidence that the right kind of sensory input can damage, or at least rewire, your brain. Look up the McCollough Effect. I imagine that once we understood the visual cortex well enough to be injecting images directly into our optic nerve, we might be able to figure out more nefarious memetic hazards.

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[Gavagai80]

Well with this brain interface if your computer gets hacked, the worst thing would happen is that the hacker would beam annoying images directly to your brain

Having goatse beamed directly into your brain is quite serious.

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[Gravis Zero]

We can't even secure our non-brain-connected computers, devices, vehicles, etc, from outside intrusion,

Nobody is making you use those things. I use a smarterphone (aka a "dumbphone") with an uninteresting OS, my car has no wireless connectivity and both my desktop PC and router which run Linux have never been compromised.

why in the world would I want to open the door for someone to hack my brain through a computer?

At this point it's merely researching the possibility. Why do you think any medical-grade product made from this would be internet connected?

I'll leave my brain standalone and air-gapped from computers

If you live to see the resulting product, you may change your mind when everyone has perfect memory and significantly high cognition than you. You could easily be relegated to being only capable of menial labor like the mentally challenged.

and the internet.

Why do you have so much focus on it being internet connected?

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[losfromla]

You wouldn't get your brain hacked, that's silly. ...

Well with this brain interface if your computer gets hacked, the worst thing would happen is that the hacker would beam annoying images directly to your brain (instead of displaying it on your VGA monitor) and maybe fuck around with your keyboard mappings so your brainwave commands to the computer don't work properly....

Hopefully the connection from PC to your brain would be wireless, so a hacker can't actually zap your brain with electrical voltage. But even if it's wired, you could put a good mechanical fuse or circuit breaker in between the PC and your brain so only tolerable voltages are ever transmitted.

So, someone could put images directly into my brain? You do realize that most of our thoughts are images? If someone can control the images in your mind, you are effectively under their control. Schizophrenics complain about the images, also the voices, they do dangerous violent things because of these influences. Not as benign and lulzy as you make it out to be.

A brain zap could be used as reinforcement when planting commands and reinforcing ideas, it would not have to go beyond the tolerable level to have a reinforcing effect. Something like in "A Clockwork Orange", only all remote with electric zaps and pushed in images. Bad shit, definitely.

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[lucasnate1]

"not need computers" and "be always connected to a portable micro computer implanted in our heads" are functionally the same thing.

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[MachineShedFred]

If my desktop gets hacked and they decide to change my wallpaper to goatse, yeah I do worry about my eyeballs getting hacked.

You can't unsee some things.

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[Rick Schumann]

Okay.. you're missing the point.
Which is better: Having a brain that doesn't need a electronic crutch installed in it
or
Having a brain that's as good (if not better) than a computer all by itself?

I don't assume all technology makes us better. I'm seeing some of it as making us weaker, lazier, and dumber, and that's not going to be good for us in the long run.
Also,

be always connected to a portable micro computer implanted in our heads

..would more or less create the situation I outlined above: 3rd parties being able to hack our brains directly. Nope, no, and hell, no, in that order.

We (as a species) need to do things that encourage improvements in our genome, not the opposite. Installing electronics in our skulls, having computers connected to our brains all the time, these things will not encourage positive evolutionary changes, they'll make us lazier and dumber.

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[Rick Schumann]

Here's a trivial but functional example of what you're talking about: https://img.ifcdn.com/images/4...
If your brain can't be hacked via sensory inputs, then why does this do anything at all?

Re: Thanks, but no thanks.

[Rick Schumann]

'Religion' is not a brain hack so much as it is evidence that our brains are still more-or-less the same as when we lived in caves and were hunter-gatherers. Human brains can't accept abstract concepts like infinity, and the Universe and so many things in it are too big and too old to comprehend.. and our brains want answers as to the nature of these things. So rather than go insane, it makes things up (like 'gods' and other imaginary, supernatural, magical things) to 'explain' it. That in and of itself isn't so bad, but then some people who have also realized the nature (and vulnerability) of our brains, leverage that into a system of control. There are 'systems of control' of this nature all over the planet. It's the biggest evolutionary hurdle the human race will have to overcome in order to become truly civilized.

There is no 'healthy integration' of these 'ideas'. There is only enduring them as a major flaw in us, until such time as our poor brains grow up and don't need it anymore. With some luck we won't extinct ourselves before that happens.

Posting this as an AC because I really don't feel like dealing with the 10,000 flame posts I'll get otherwise for daring to point out the elephant in the room.

Re: Thanks, but no thanks.

[Rick Schumann]

LOL, or, forgetting to click the check-box, and probably getting flamed anyway. xD

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[perew]

I imagine that once we understood the visual cortex well enough to be injecting images directly into our optic nerve, we might be able to figure out more nefarious memetic hazards.

This would give new meaning to "Once seen, you can never unsee it."

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[lucasnate1]

1) I think that there is no "us", some people are improved by tech and others are fucked by it.

2) Humans can already be hacked by a 3rd party, it's called social engineering. If we gained telepahty or enhanced brains, then more remote forms of hacking would become possible as well. The more forms of input and output you can process, the more hacks will be available.

Re:Thanks, but no thanks.

[painandgreed]

If your desktop gets hacked, you don't worry about someone hacking your fingers or eyeballs, do you?

You don't seem to have met many Breitbart readers.

Can you say 20+ years out?

[JoeMerchant]

Kudos for starting, but it's a long long road from reading electrical signals from implanted electrodes to:

A) an implant that you would actually want to live with in normal life (relatively free of complications, side effects, long life, replaceable when it malfunctions, etc.)

B) a quality of communication that exceeds simple demonstration of concept low bandwidth gimmicks

These types of bio-electrical neural-computer interfaces are starting to bear fruit for the profoundly blind, deaf, and amputees - cases where they have nothing and anything is an infinite improvement. Moving from that (today's) stage to improvement over normal function will take decades of development, and investors who don't care for much resembling profits or ROI in the meantime. Patents they might file today will likely expire before the patented idea generates any profits.

Again, kudos for starting, we've already got the Hollywood take on what this tech might do, and we can tell from our (currently crude) cellphone interfaces to the web what a small sliver of the potential could be. It will be awesome when it gets here - but I might require major advances in life extension if I'm going to see it get "better than normal."

Re:Can you say 20+ years out?

[oh_my_080980980]

You do realize this is bullshit. Total snake oil. It is not the same as a prosthetic device.

So please just fuck off and let real people do real science without all this bullshit.

Re:Can you say 20+ years out?

[JoeMerchant]

A "lace" brain-machine interface is just a bunch of electrical potential pickups, with all the same drawbacks as any other implanted electrode. Real science isn't bullshit, and it's not a cartoon-world either, bio-material interfaces are messy, problematic, and prone to all sorts of failures.

Just wait

[magsol]

for this thing to BSOD

Re:Just wait

[losfromla]

It's a good thing Bill Gates isn't running it, no BSOD problem as long as it isn't running windoze

Re:Bullshit

[JoeMerchant]

DARPA is actually a giant idea vacuum, sucking concepts out of Musk and every other wide eyed visionary tempted by the chance of a research grant.

Full report in Google Doc

[Anonymous Coward]

https://docs.google.com/docume...

Re:Bullshit

[Sperbels]

Relevance? So what?

Self-contradictory

[mark-t]

"neural lace" technology that would allow people to communicate directly with machines without going through a physical interface

And immediately afterward, they say:

Neural lace involves implanting electrodes in the brain...

So it's pretty clear that not only is there a physical interface, the electrodes, but this interface is pretty darn invasive because you have to have it implanted in your skull.

Re:Self-contradictory

[squiggleslash]

I suspect by physical interface they mean something you interact with physically, rather than directly - ie you push buttons with your fingers on a keyboard, you receive images via a monitor that converts them into photons, etc. It's awkward language, but I'm not sure there's a "correct" way beyond calling the brain link something awful like "really, really, direct."

Re:Self-contradictory

[zlives]

so your choice is to use a KB/mouse or get surgery for brain implants... yeah that sounds goodish

Re:Self-contradictory

[mark-t]

My point is that that I'd rather have an artificial external interface than an artificial internal one

Re:Musk is a great demonstration

[Anonymous Coward]

You think that man's future is living in the most inhospitable environment conceivable?

Re:Bullshit

[sound vision]

You're saying that Musk needs a grant to do something like this? Or, are you saying that nobody would ever need a grant? I'm picking up a pretty strong attitude in this post but either the reasoning or the communication is so murky that I can't make heads or tails of it.

that damn cybernetic dolphin is a junky!

[Thud457]

I need a Sino-logic 16, Sogo 7 Data Gloves, a GPL stealth module, one Burdine intelligent translator... Thompson iPhone.

Re:that damn cybernetic dolphin is a junky!

[angel'o'sphere]

You forgot your Ono Sendai. I guess I might have 2 in my basement, if you need one.

Brains are all over the place

[presidenteloco]

with scatter-shot associative activations

isn't it much better to just have the computer listen to what's on our mind after we've focussed it into a coherent intent or action-story.

In other words, isn't it better to just have the computer listen to us speak, and sense our intentional motions. Yes, trackpad, touchpad, haptic glove I'm talking about you.

If they're trying to say the computer could directly interact with the neocortex to provide additional associative memory capacity, I'm skeptical. The brain focuses stuff down and has specific I/O areas, and that's where you probably have to interact with it, to get manageable complexity.

Well it is in one respect

[presidenteloco]

Elon Musk is clearly easily bored.

Starts cool things, but moves on to something else on a whim. Are investment analysts going to consider this a risk for his current main companies?

Re:Well it is in one respect

[DontBeAMoran]

What would you want him to do? Risk everything on a single project and wait decades until completion/failure until he can start working on a new project?

Last time I checked, humans did not have lifespans of a few hundred years.

Re:Well it is in one respect

[haruchai]

Elon Musk is clearly easily bored.

Starts cool things, but moves on to something else on a whim. Are investment analysts going to consider this a risk for his current main companies?

That's quite the overstatement. He's been helming SpaceX and Tesla for nearly 15 years. He does seem to have a restless intellect but that doesn't make him flighty

Re:Musk is a great demonstration

[zlives]

i will sell you a one way ticket to where ever you want to go, just give me cash.
(offer void where prohibited)

also check out alaska, its still more habitable than mars and you get all the isolation you could want.

Re:Bullshit

[JoeMerchant]

I'm saying that DARPA is more shadow than substance, they take ideas from people like Musk (who publishes them willingly in press releases) as well as people like academics seeking grant money. They repackage the ideas that interest them, then float them back on the market fishing for people who will write deeper proposals along those lines. For every 10 proposals directly targeted at DARPA RFPs, delivered by people with legitimate ability to deliver, DARPA might fund one - and I think they do it as often to stimulate further thinking in the field (incentivising those who did not get the grant) as they expect actual genuine progress out of their regular cadre of grant recipients.

DARPA is not a giant skunkworks of advanced research prototypes that have cartoon-like powers, it's a bunch of paper-pushers seeking other peoples' ideas, rarely developing them beyond tiny pilot programs. Like the corporate world, they'll get one solid hit every rare interval, but most of the time it's just a finger on the pulse of what's percolating at the edge of tech development.

Re: but will anyone prove the riemann hypothesis w

[VernonNemitz]

There is a MUCH bigger issue here than what someone might do with external computerized enhancements to the brain. Remember how just about everything is connected to the Internet? And how the Internet remembers everything? This means your thoughts will be recorded. And the Thought Police will arrive soon after....

Re: Bullshit

[Type44Q]

Inventing=thinking; implementing=doing

Think about that for a bit - if your limited resources allow it - but either way, fuck off.

Bulwark Against AI

[bill_mcgonigle]

Musk is very adverse to AI's doing these functions. Maybe neural laces will give humans enough of an advantage that they stop wanting strong AI.

This might be the most important article you read this week: http://www.vanityfair.com/news...

Re: but will anyone prove the riemann hypothesis w

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Duh there's already an invention to stop that!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

On the other hand,

[OhSoLaMeow]

This is a good opportunity to loop the tape.

Christopher Walken fans know what I'm talking about. ;-)

Re:On the other hand,

[davesays]

I *think* that scene was Cliff Robertson. Didn't see this until I had posted, but that kind of sacred the shit out of me...

Re:On the other hand,

[OhSoLaMeow]

I *think* that scene was Cliff Robertson. Didn't see this until I had posted, but that kind of sacred the shit out of me...

"Brainstorm" - with Christopher Walken.

Are we there yet?

[DontBeAMoran]

NerveGear

Re:Musk is a great demonstration

[DontBeAMoran]

I guess you weren't there a few million years ago. Earth was the most inhospitable environment conceivable.

It looks like ...

[PPH]

... a headphone jack. So I guess Apple won't support this.

I see it.

[nospam007]

Elon Musk in the time-traveling Jack the Ripper from the future who fled backwards in time to us.
Now he needs the technology to build his own time machine and does this step by step by 'inventing' the necessary parts.

Re:I see it.

[painandgreed]

Elon Musk in the time-traveling Jack the Ripper from the future who fled backwards in time to us. Now he needs the technology to build his own time machine and does this step by step by 'inventing' the necessary parts.

He already has one, but it's on Mars. A few trivial repairs, some power batteries, and interface method and his plans can come to completion.

Re:Full article

[LifesABeach]

Nice report; for what grade?

Re: but will anyone prove the riemann hypothesis w

[Gavagai80]

I'd be more worried about a hacker threatening to shut down my brain I don't transfer all my money to their account immediately. Or a bored teenager just shutting down people's brains for the fun of it.

Elon Musk is an alien

[Anonymous Coward]

I read somewhere about a theory that Elon Musk is actually an alien stranded on Earth and he's trying to advance human civilization to the point where he can build a spaceship and return to his home. I'm beginning to believe it.

I wonder if it's similar to

[John.Banister]

this project helping a woman locked in by ALS.

I don't thing it's that simple

[Neuronwelder]

Hooking up a bunch of electrodes is not that simple. You might have hundreds, maybe thousands of points to connect, just to start to get things going. (That is, if you could figure out where they are)..And even if you could map the neural pathways of a human brain. Are the paths all the same in each brain? General paths? Yes. Individual paths? I doubt it. Due to brain plasticity it would make things even harder. A brain is not a mass production motherboard.

Brain Fungus

[Neuronwelder]

I remember a long time ago a person I used to know had an uncle who needed brain surgery. The surgery went fantastically well. But he died from brain fungus. You are at risk, any time you open the skull. I did a search on Google to see if they have solved the problem, but the results were very discouraging. One was quite unnerving! http://www.livescience.com/477...

Infections

[manu0601]

Some patient really need brain electrodes. For the others, it looks like a bad idea to introduce an alien substance that will increase the risk of microbes creating biofilms. As Wikipedia notes (with a reference): "60-70% of nosocomial or hospital acquired infections are associated with the implantation of a biomedical device"

Not a good idea, yet...

[Timothy2.0]

There are serious technological and social problems that come with this.

Firstly, security on one's brainwaves is critical. While current technology allows pretty coarse-grained analysis of brainwaves, that will change. When it does, those coarse-grained waveforms will be reanalyzed to delve deeper.

Secondly, what protections exist for biometric data? In a world where the state is trying to *reduce* encryption, protection of biometric information (ESPECIALLY brainwaves) is critical. It doesn't get much more intimate than that.

Thirdly, the social dimensions that come with such security is significant. As Europe pushes for the right to be forgotten, why can I not push for the "right to remember", even if that means recording everything I experience digitally? Technologically, we're chimps with calculators...We can barely handle the tech we have, but Musk wants to boldly push ever forward...I support him, but such a move has to be done carefully and deliberately.

Re: but will anyone prove the riemann hypothesis w

[sheramil]

You are assuming that your thoughts are worth recording. A lot of people seem to think that.

I'm willing to pay $1000 USD

[cheesybagel]

If Elon Musk volunteers to be the first to get that chip implant surgery. No? You don't want to have the surgery Elon? Oh well.

Brains are a delicate thing...

[davesays]

Does anyone remember the movie "Brainstorm" (1983)? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt00... It was about a direct way to record and replay experiences to and from the brain with sensory input and everything else as a real memory. There was a scene where the executive is replaying a scene of a romp with two hookers. it was clear the dopamine (or whatever) addled high had completely broken him. As a 16 year old with a mattress full of Playboys, my first thought was "That's scary, not really sure I want that." I am not particularly perceptive, but it scared me a little...

Not to be rude...

[no1nose]

But why doesn't he focus on getting us all in electric cars that we can ALL afford? >$30k?

Priorities

[stiebrs]

And in not-so-far future we can expect a lot of sudden pornography, when user starts daydreaming