The Best and Worst Cities To Live in For Tech Workers, Based on Rent and Commute (qz.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: Most cities with a cluster of tech companies can offer those workers either a short commute or low rents -- but not both, according to a study by property consultancy Savills. Berlin is the exception to that rule. Savills found that the German capital offers tech workers some of the lowest rents and among the shortest commutes of 22 cities it surveyed. Commuting is a hugely important factor for worker satisfaction. One study, by the UK's Office of National Statistics, found that each additional minute of commuting increased workers' anxiety and reduced their satisfaction with life. Based on how long it takes to get to work.
The five best cities are: Austin (16 mins), Melbourne, Stockholm, Berlin, and Tokyo (24 mins).
Five worst cities: Bengaluru (47 mins), Hong Kong, Seattle, Seoul, and Toronto (40 mins).

Based on how much tech workers pay in rent (per week).
Best cities: Seoul ($153), Santiago, Berlin, Buenos Aires, and Cape Town ($192).
Five worst cities: San Francisco (with $775.45), New York, Boston, London, and Singapore ($488.16).

Comments

Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who lives in Austin and has a 16 minute commute?

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Moheeheeko]

A good friend of mine lives in Austin and his commute is less than 10

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[lq_x_pl]

Speaks volumes about the traffic in other 'tech' cities if Austin is at the top of the "best traffic" list. I moved to an Austin suburb and landed a job in a different Austin suburb because I was so sick of parking on 183.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who lives in Stockholm and pays less than $1500/month for an apartment? (Or did they exclude second hand rent, which is 300% of list price?)

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who lives in San Francisco and only has rent of $775.45? Unless that's a weekly rate, then it's way off.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[freeze128]

Austin, Minnesota?

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[lq_x_pl]

re-examine the chart. It is weekly. :-D

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[OrangeTide]

2 bedroom apartment for $3100, split it 4 ways. That's how you rent in San Francisco.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[s.petry]

It is way off. I believe they decided to use 1982 data for rent in SF. "Cheap" rent on a 1 bedroom apartment is 2.5K/mo, and a 2 bedroom is 3-3.5K/mo. The only place I can think of with a rent of 775.45/mo might be a cot in one of those wood burning stoves^W^W^Wold warehouses

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[spacepimp]

the Article shows it as a weekly rate. Still for NYC 400 a week in rent is nothing.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Manchester, UK here. 15 minute commute by bus or tram and 95 GBP per week for a 3 bedroom semi detached house.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[tylersoze]

Well I live in Austin, and I have a 0 minute commute :) Although when I did have to go into an office my commute was about 10 minutes (from the suburbs) because I'd leave the house at 11 and come home at 7.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh, silly me for only reading the incomplete summary and not TFA.

But honestly, who pays rent by the week other than people who live in motels? That seems a strange rental period for the article to choose.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hot bunking is fine for Navy boys.

If that's the only way you can make ends meet on dry land, you need to get yourself out of that city or find a better line of work.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

A good friend of mine lives in Austin and his commute is less than 10

I'm from Austin and this is BS

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[mrvan]

On the other hand, if you live in Hong Kong for less than 750 USD weekly rent (1) you're not really living in Hong Kong and (2) I can see how you get a 40 minute commute :).

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Weekly rent is common in the UK and other parts of Europe.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Austerity Empowers]

Who lives in Austin and has a 16 minute commute?

I don't know who these people are or where they live. Technically I live in Round Rock (far north austin, let's not kid ourselves), but my commute, should I go in during rush hour is more like 1:30. If there is 0 traffic, it is still 30 minutes. I work in South Austin (presently). When I worked in North Austin it was 15 minutes out of rush hour, but still about an hour in rush hour, because our roads are poorly structured. I could probably cut this in half if I lived in west lake or spicewood, but then we're back in to the $600k+ homes, removing any particular advantage of living in Austin.

The "tech" companies, at least of the variety that would hire an electrical/computer engineer or even a systems SW engineer, are either considerably north of Austin, or considerably south. Unless you moved in near where you work and have changed neither thing, you probably have a hike to get to work. Maybe young 20 somethings who rent an apartment can always move when they change jobs, but that describes precisely nobody I know.

Anyone who wants to call bullshit on this should simply look at google maps with the traffic layer on between 7AM and 10AM, or 4PM and 7PM. That dark red shows the story of actual life here, and there are no solutions on the way.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[aoism]

It depends. I'm in the suburbs because I have a family -- but technically still Austin, and my commute is 45 mins per way on average on Mopac. For the single young techies who move to South Austin condos, yeah -- I could believe a 10 minute commute to downtown. How old are the people they are surveying?

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd have to make three loops around the town of Austin, Minnesota to commute to work there (to the Hormel Spam factory, presumably.)

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've lived in England, France, Spain, Norway, Germany and Czech Republic. Most people in those places pay by the month.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Cheap" rent on a 1 bedroom apartment is 2.5K/mo, and a 2 bedroom is 3-3.5K/mo.

That falls right in line with their quoted average of $775/wk.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Sique]

It's the weekly rent mentioned in the article. Thus $1500/month are about $375/week.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Err, three loops around the town of Austin, Minnesota to make the commute to work take 16 minutes there, that is

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[BronsCon]

From TFS:

Based on how much tech workers pay in rent (per week).

Still, what did they do, find the cheapest rent and shortest commute? $3360/mo (775.45 * 52 / 12) is on the low end of the scale for SF.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry, Creimer will be here any minute to brag to you about how he lives there on only $50k/year.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

By helicopter

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are more than 4 million people renting social housing in England and Wales alone, that doesn't include Scotland or Ulster.

4.1 million counts as "common" in my parlance.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/housing-network/2015/nov/18/who-lives-41-million-social-housing-homes-england-wales

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Zontar The Mindless]

Who lives in Stockholm and pays less than $1500/month for an apartment? (Or did they exclude second hand rent, which is 300% of list price?)

Stockholm isn't exactly cheap, granted, but if you're paying that much for a flat there, you're doing it wrong. My mortgage + maintenance for a 105 kvm (almost 1100 sqft, which is huge for Stockholm) 3BR ("fyra rum + kök") is about half that, it takes about 5 minutes to walk to the nearest stop on the Tunnelbana and it's about 15 minutes to ride the train from there to Centralen.

ProTip1: You do NOT have to live on Kungsholmen or Södermalm to have a nice home in a nice neighbourhood with easy access to downtown. I'm right next to Nacka Reservatet, too.

ProTip2: The rental market in Stockholm is the most completely fucked up I've seen anywhere, and I've lived all over the US and 4 other countries. Buying is heaps cheaper, and that way you get equity as part of the deal.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Zontar The Mindless]

Renting by the week is the norm in Australia. My landlord thought it was weird that I wanted to pay 4 weeks at a time in advance, but not too weird for her to take the money.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Zontar The Mindless]

Not surprised at all. It was $1800/mo for a 1BR when I lived in Pacifica, and that wasn't even in the city, nearly 20 years ago.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[sycodon]

I'm skeptical that many single young techies could afford any of those $400,000 condos.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does a significant portion of Afghanistan live next door?

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Buying an apartment is not comparable figures to the ones in the article, which are rent, not mortgage. And since in Stockholm you can't get a first hand contract unless you're 85 and been queuing for a rental apartment, second hand rent is probably what should be compared. And unless you share an apartment 6 ways, it would cost more than anything on that list. Especially considering the average commute listed for Stockholm.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[sycodon]

I live outside Austin (north) and work outside Austin (a bit more north)

Six mins with no traffic and hitting all the lights just right. Get on the road by 6am and I'm sitting at my desk by 6:15.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[buddyglass]

Mine is 10 minutes. Live at approximately 2222 & Mopac. Work at approximately 183 and Oak Knoll. In the morning all the traffic is inbound and I'm outbound. In the afternoon it's the opposite. That said, I pay a premium to live where I do. If I lived in Cedar Park my commute might be worse.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

I take public transportation and it's not much better. I work downtown Austin. Morning commute - 1 hour. Afternoon commute 1 hour 15 minutes. By car it would be significantly longer. Austin traffic sucks and it continues to get worse.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[silas_moeckel]

I can't get a hotel in 15 minutes from a downtown office in Austin

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[sconeu]

Los Angeles isn't even listed.... probably because it would be off the charts for traffic.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[drinkypoo]

A good friend of mine lives in Austin and his commute is less than 10

When I worked for Tivoli it took me five minutes just to walk across the Arboretum (at which point I was at work, because I was in the nearest possible apartment complex.) I call shenanigans. Even then it was unusual to have less than a fifteen minute commute. All my friends say the 35 is now a parking lot any time it's vaguely near commute time. If you live in Austin, and you actually have a commute worthy of the name, you're not making it in ten minutes.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[buddyglass]

There's your problem: ever using I-35.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[ncc74656]

Buying is heaps cheaper

That tends to be true no matter where you are. If you're renting, you're paying the landlord's mortgage, HOA dues, insurance, etc., plus a bit more on top of that for profit (because who wants the hassle of being a landlord without being paid for it?).

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[buddyglass]

Already posted in this thread once, but here's my story: Live at 2222 & Mopac, commit to 183 and Oak Knoll. Takes about 10 minutes.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Good for you. Never said it wasn't common, just not the norm. That also falls into line with the motel rental comment since typically those are low income/no income, lower class people.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[s.petry]

Well, as someone else pointed out these are weekly rates, which look more correct. Their number then changes to about 3K/mo. SF proper is about 5K/mo for a 1 bedroom, but some of the areas drop the average as you go west toward Pacifica. I don't know anywhere "decent" in the Bay area within an hour commute that's less than 3K/mo.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[youngone]

Renting by the week is also the norm here in New Zealand.

We do have among the least affordable housing in the world (in Auckland at least) to make up for that, also awful commutes.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Like I said, I pay 95 GBP per week due a three bedroom semi-detached house. It's in a nice leafy area with great transport infrastructure and I am very far from being on a low income. My three children all attend a fee paying private school and my wife doesn't need to work to put it into context for you.

I consider myself working class, though others would probably consider me middle class due to my income.

In 1979 42% of the entire population of the UK lived in affordable social housing, today it is only 8% due to the policies of Margaret Thatcher and the vermin that came after her and continued her policies.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/04/end-of-council-housing-bill-secure-tenancies-pay-to-stay

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Ryn]

Live in Cedar Park, commute to Round Rock right off of La Frontera. We may not have beer fridays, but my commute is 15 minutes door to door, or longer when I want to take a joyride on my bike home.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know anywhere "decent" in the Bay area within an hour commute that's less than 3K/mo.

Alameda. I lived there for 12 years and it has reasonable rents and low crime.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly not, we have to put up with second and third generation Irish.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can lease a decent condo downtown for ~1600 a month. They're really not that bad, especially if you're dual-income no kids.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in Austin. Once they get a few years of experience, and with a little help on the downpayment from mom and dad, some of them actually do.

I've seen people here in their 30's getting that downpayment help from mom and dad too.

I've also seen at least one girl from LA who's parents bought her a half million dollar condo right next to Zilker...you know....while she was a student in college.

There is a lot of money being thrown around in Austin these days...it's weird in all of the wrong ways.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Khashishi]

My commute is less than that.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apartments where I live are converting to triple net.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[z0idberg]

I suspect the same for Sydney (Australia) which somehow missed out even though Melbourne was included. Commute and Rent would be on the worse end no doubt.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[lgw]

That tends to be true no matter where you are.

There are plenty of places where a real estate bubble has pushed prices for buying up to nutty levels, while rents are low by comparison (but still high).

Basic rule of thumb: if you can buy for 100 months rent, that's a steal. If it's more than 200 month's rent, it's a rip-off (less than 200 if it's a condo with high fees). Somewhere in between is a matter of taste.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Megane]

I guess if you live in one of those new euroblocks that have turned so many main streets into canyons, but definitely not if you have to take Mopac or NW 183. If your work is on the other side of town, you're just fucked.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Megane]

the 35

Nobody local calls it that except the immigrants from out-of-state. It's just "eye 35" to the locals.

Anyhow, you do point out the only way to get such a short commute in Austin: move to the corner of town near where your work is.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[MrKaos]

I suspect the same for Sydney (Australia) which somehow missed out even though Melbourne was included. Commute and Rent would be on the worse end no doubt.

Absolutely. I don't know anyone in Sydney who has less than an hour commute in one direction. If they have less than that then they pay a lot of rent or house repayments. A 40minute commute for most people in Sydney would be a dream come true. Pretty city, terrible infrastructure problems.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Megane]

Back in the early 2Ks, I had to go to the San Jose area for a few days training for work. I was quite stunned when I turned on the TV in the hotel room at 6AM to see that traffic was already bumper-to-bumper on the freeways. Now I've recently moved back from Austin to San Antonio, where Californians would kill for even its rush hour traffic. But if they got homesick, I think there's a section of Loop 1604 that they could try.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

I drive from Berkman & 51st St (Windsor Park) to Anderson Mill + Parmer 4x weekly. My best commute time is 16 min each direction. Avg is 20 and worst is 25 minutes. When possible, leaving home after 9am and returning home after 6pm noticeably reduce the time and stress of the drive. I see all the suckers stuck in traffic going the opposite direction and wonder why anyone would put themselves through that to live in Cedar Park. Why? The traffic here does suck, but it can also be avoided.

Plus my *monthly* rent is just above the stated *weekly* number for Austin, but I'm lucky.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[drinkypoo]

There's your problem: ever using I-35.

Except if you're going from North Austin to Downtown or vice versa there's no other route which isn't also clogged. You basically have to live near work. I approve of that, but it's not always feasible.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[khallow]

He's saving $9k per year. That hunk of change is worth a bit of grief.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[WorLord]

They're people like me, and they live all around you.

I live east of Pflugerville, and even during rush hour can usually get to anywhere downtown in 25-27 minutes (yes, we timed it -- in response to many and varied claims that one could not go to the grocery store without some kind of 45 minute trek at the very least).

The problem is twofold: people who live on the western side, for the longest time, lost their one good route north/south (MoPac) so they could add another lane. This has been "fixed" very recently, but I can't say if it's helped. And Two, you aren't "commuting" within Austin so much as you're driving _from_ outside of Austin, clear across austin, to what sounds like somewhere else outside of austin. That's... what, 30 miles? Hardly what I'd call an average commute for the area. An _average_ commute for the area is maybe a third of that.

This also fails to mention that every single tech company I've worked for in over a decade allows offset hours specifically to deal with rush hour. My typical eight hour stint, when I worked in an office, was 11-7, with a 20 minute commute either way because of the time of day (and that was south, on 71, to Lake Creek on 183). Also fails to mention the rise of telecommute options: even a couple days a week average a horrible commute out to something livable.

I do not know how it could take you an hour to get from Round Rock to North Austin. Our roads might be poorly structured, but it doesn't even take me twenty minutes to get from my version of BFE to the Arboritum, and that's at 8:30am.

Finally: people in Austin do quite frequently move to at least the side of the river their job is on. It's more the regular than it is not, and for reasons of commute.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[MikeB0Lton]

Here in Indianapolis, nobody ever calls it taking "the 69". That'd be ridiculous.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

No it isn't. $9K is pocket change.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[khallow]

I suppose if you had it as large bills, it would fit in a pocket.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[fubarrr]

Guys, where is Shenzhen?

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in Sydney Australia and have lived in both in the inner city and out in the suburbs. It takes about 1.5 hours each way to commute to and from work from the outer suburbs and anywhere from 20 - 40 minutes each way if you live in the inner city. In regards for rent, Sydney is one of the most expensive citys to live. My parting comment is Sydney is a great place to visit but not live.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[Carewolf]

Who lives in San Francisco and only has rent of $775.45? Unless that's a weekly rate, then it's way off.

Makes sense per week. But who can get from SF to their tech job in the valley in 33minutes?

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[fellip_nectar]

Anyone who works at Initech will tell you 16 mins is BS.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[drinkypoo]

the 35

Nobody local calls it that except the immigrants from out-of-state.

I started calling it that after I heard locals calling it that. It was over ten years ago, though. I haven't been to Texas in ages. The only thing I miss there are some exes. Not all my exes live in Texas, but some of them do.

Anyhow, you do point out the only way to get such a short commute in Austin: move to the corner of town near where your work is.

And that's precisely what I did when I lived there. And people shit themselves because I paid $1/sqft. Hilarity.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[mjwx]

Who lives in Austin and has a 16 minute commute?

I'd say the same for Melbourne.

I used to live in Perth and it was a 15 minute commute from Kingsley to Joondalup on a 10 KM (6.5 miles) commute on a good day. Melbourne is even worse. My current 5.5 mile commute in south west England is so dependent on the traffic. In no traffic, I'm looking at 10 minutes, if there's a problem on the Motorway, my commute can easily exceed 30 mins.

Working somewhere with flexible hours is the best thing you can do for a commute. The best shift I've ever done is 10 to 6. You beat the rush hour traffic and the school traffic both ways, doing 6 to 2 or 3 means you hit the school traffic going home. Plus people who dont love a good lie in are strange and unnatural.

Re: Austin 16 minute commute?

[antdah]

My friend Hot Karl commuted on a Cleveland steamengine for a while, I think it involved "the 69".
Anyway he quit becuse the job was really shitty.

Re:Austin 16 minute commute?

[ausekilis]

Having lived in north Austin (Domain area), Leander and Pflugerville, I can definitively say that what should be a 6 minute commute to work can easily turn into 30 minutes during rush hour. I leave at oh-dark-thirty to avoid traffic, but if I should leave at 7, my ~25 min commute quickly turns into 45-60 minutes. The longest it has taken me to get home was an hour and 45 minutes for that same ~25 min drive.

*maybe* it's a 15 minute commute in the suburbs only, but inner-city there's no way.

500$/month in NYC

[Crashmarik]

That's bullshit. My parking space goes for $400/month. I doubt you could rent a closet for $400.00

Re:500$/month in NYC

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe they live in their car, and only pay "parking" as rent. Sounds about right.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[whoever57]

The rents quoted are weekly, not monthly.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[lq_x_pl]

Re-examine the chart. The rents listed are weekly. :-D

Re:500$/month in NYC

[Anonymous Coward]

An important piece in the article (but not summary) is that it is one way commute time and WEEKLY rent.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[wired_parrot]

They listed the rent per week, not per month, so that is more like $2000 per month.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what I was thinking, too. Then I noticed that the rent numbers were "per week" and not "per month."

Re:500$/month in NYC

[Anonymous Coward]

500$/WEEK
I didn't realize it until I went to the article. Their values are weekly values.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[Crashmarik]

Thanks I missed that.
Weekly ? Guess next time I go shopping I'll have to see if they are selling by the bushel or the peck.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[edx93]

The numbers are in weekly, not monthly, amounts placing NYC at $2,700/month. Not sure how accurate that is, but Boston's rent is spot on.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[Anonymous Coward]

The rent is per week.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[GLMDesigns]

NYC rooms for rent in "war zones" (think Far Rock) are in the neighborhood of 180-200/wk. Think drugs, prostitutes, shootings, muggings. As bad a neighborhood as NYC has.

In a decent neighborhood (read relatively safe) I can't see getting anything but a room in a shared brownstone for $1000 / mth. If you want to your own place, even a 400sq foot studio will cost $1500+

If you're willing to live further in Bklyn or Queens or the Bronx you can get a nice 1 bdrm for 1750 or so. In Far Rock you could get a two bedroom + for that price but you would have a 90 minute commute to midtown.

I live in Bklyn, a half hour door2door from midtown so, good commute.

Rents!? They're not cheap.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[pr0fessor]

TFA says $682/week where did you get $500/month?

Re:500$/month in NYC

[gurps_npc]

The article said $500 per WEEK. not per month.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[Anonymous Coward]

read the article, fuckwit.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[Anonymous Coward]

RTFA -- it's per week

Re:500$/month in NYC

[sanosuke001]

How long does it take you to get pretentious enough to use "Bklyn" and is it before or after you assume all of NY minus NYC is "Upstate" because it no longer matters to you?

Re:500$/month in NYC

[Anonymous Coward]

It's an understandable mistake, considering no one describes their rent in weekly payments.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's not. Looking at that number I knew it was not a monthly amount. But then it's hard to be outrages otherwise.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[DontBeAMoran]

I pay under $400/month for my 5-rooms apartment. Small town in Canada.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[GLMDesigns]

Pretentious? I've never heard anyone considering writing bklyn as opposed to brooklyn as being pretentious. So, I don't know how long it takes.

I've lived in Bklyn basically my whole life. I don't even think about writing it out and more than I think about writing out NYC. The article was referring to NYC (assuming as I didn't read the article). And yes, everything north of the Bronx (including Westchester) is upstate. Long Island (Nassau and Suffolk) obviously are not "upstate".

I remember when living in bklyn was most definitely not considered "pretentious."

Don't know where you got the idea that I considered upstate as irrelevant. (I did think it was irrelevant as far as the article was concerned. I was focused on NYC itself.)

Can one commute from Westchester, Rockland, NJ, Pennsylvania, Connecticut. Yes. Plenty do

Re:500$/month in NYC

[Anonymous Coward]

They're missing the all important 3rd point of the triangle. It is rent vs commute vs pay. Your rent can be much higher in NYC or London but what you get paid is important when compared to low rent in Buttfuck, Idaho.

Re:500$/month in NYC

[dave420]

You're not too good with charts, huh?

Re:500$/month in NYC

[Crashmarik]

Actually I am pretty damn good. Seeing as the summary didn't have one/still doesn't and originally didn't specify a weekly rent, I'll take full credit for helping get it corrected.

Yeah, sure $775.45

[Anonymous Coward]

I could easily rent at $775.45 in San Francisco.
In a cardboard box under an overpass that is.

Re:Yeah, sure $775.45

[OrangeTide]

That's the weekly rate, not the monthly rate.

You can rent a room in someone's house in SF for around $900. And if you look around you can probably find something very small for less than $800.

But most kids these days are paying around $3000 to $3500/mo in rent in SF. (which works out to $700 to $800 a week)
Sadly that rent is only a few hundred more than my mortgage in San Jose. Sure, I have to live in the south bay and it would be a rough commute to the peninsula, but it warms down here and no fog.

My only advice to the new generation that doesn't want to be screwed over on rent is they should have bought a house 10 years ago. New parents should start saving up today not just for college but also to help their 30-something child put a down payment on a house, because I'm skeptical there will be any other way out.

Re:Yeah, sure $775.45

[goku3989]

The rent figures are per week.

Re:Yeah, sure $775.45

[OrangeTide]

You can rent a room in someone's house in SF for around $900. And if you look around you can probably find something very small for less than $800.

Note, I mean $800-$900 per month. (not week)
And that's definitely not average or median price. That's what you can find if you really press for it and make a lot of compromises.

Re:Yeah, sure $775.45

[Anonymous Coward]

The story was ninja-edited after I posted to say "per week".

Too bad the editors don't mind having the ability to make arbitrary changes to posts but that courtesy is not extended to everyone else.

Re:Yeah, sure $775.45

[Anonymous Coward]

You can rent a room in someone's house in SF for around $900.

Yes, but what if you want more space than the mop closet?

Re:Yeah, sure $775.45

[edx93]

Seriously, doesn't anybody even read the bloody article before making a comment!? Hell, it's even on the summary! This is the second time I come back here to find that someone has made the same asinine mistake. These are weekly figures, people, not monthly!

Re:Yeah, sure $775.45

[OrangeTide]

In a free market you would have to work harder if you want more nice things. San Francisco is not the communist utopia the 60's counter-culture intellectuals proclaim it is. The rent is high and the streets smell like piss.

Re:Yeah, sure $775.45

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yes the urinary smell of SF streets. The rents may rise but some things never change.

Yeah about Stockholm...

[Orphis]

It's all great that it takes 24 minutes, but in general, it's quite hard to find a place to rent long term. So if you're a foreign worker, good luck competing with the locals who have been in queues to get a 1st hand contract rental for many years already...

So well, if you can't move there, you're not part of the statistics of course!

Re:Yeah about Stockholm...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been somewhat planning a move to Stockholm (from another EU country) for over five years now, and finding a place to live is the main thing holding me back. As I understand it, if you have a second-hand rental (outside the government system) you can be kicked out with only a month's notice, your rent isn't well-regulated, etc. Buying is pretty much the only option, and thanks to the messed up way that Swedes view buying the same as renting and stretch their mortgages out to 100 years, house prices are extremely high even half an hour outside the city. In the meantime I've been considering Göteborg and places in other countries, since it's beginning to look like Stockholm is never going to happen.

Rent Calculations?

[sgrover]

I'm in a Canadian city comparable to Toronto on the list. I'm not understanding how they calculate rent at $334 (rounded). Is that per square foot of the shop?? Or the average rent the tech workers pay? If the latter, then the report needs a healthy grain of doubt. I have not heard of a $334/month rent in Canada for 20+ years. I think the going rate for rent in cities like Toronto are near $1000/month. The article doesn't really clarify how they got the rent numbers. Anyone from Toronto want to give an opinion on the rent figures? But, a 40 minute commute time seems plausible. It's about what it takes for me here (during rush hour) and I live approx 60km from the office (by choice).

Re:Rent Calculations?

[sgrover]

I see - another comment in another thread revealed the trick.. The listed rents are per WEEK, not per month.

Re:Rent Calculations?

[minogully]

Based on other comments on here, the $334 is not per month, but per week. That equals out to $1447 per month, if you do 334*52 / 12.

SF rent for $775? Try $3500

[Anonymous Coward]

$775 is the rent that an SF person pays if they moved there in 1998 for the first dot com bubble and still have rent control, and they share a 2 bed apartment with 4 people.

An honest to goodness vacancy (as opposed to an illegal under-the-table sublet) goes for $3000+ per month for a 1 bedroom in SF. here's an example: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/6063926558.html

You might get as low as $2200 or so if you're pretty far away from where a tech-person would work.

Re: SF rent for $775? Try $3500

[Anonymous Coward]

The article says $775 weekly for sf. So its about right.

Meanwhile, in Melbourne...

[Archtech]

I well remember, many years ago, seeing a job advertisement in the British "Daily Telegraph". It was for a job at some college in Melbourne, and it ended along these lines:

"Accomodation provided at xyz - 85 miles from Melbourne (one hour's drive)".

Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[MrLogic17]

I live in the mid-west, and until a recent job change, had a shorter commute than everything in that list - plus a 3 bed house for less than the vast majority of that list. My income is on par with national averages for my job title, yet I have a vastly below average cost of living.

For the life of me, I can't fathom why anyone would want to live in a big city. Every perk I hear touted, I can beat. It's quiet, I have a yard, and I have more spending money that the saps choking on smog.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[WrongMonkey]

Most important perk to living a in a big city: social life. Finding people who have common interests gets easier as population density increase.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[geek]

Yep. I moved to Idaho and can relate. I grew up in Silly Con Valley and will never go back. I won't even visit I hate that place so much. I earn more here, I have a cost of living thats 60% less than it was there and the people are chill. My commute is about 26 minutes though but thats by choice as I chose to move further out of town than most.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[jayflava]

I had a very similar situation in the mid-west and I totally agree with you IF you brought your own spouse. (that you still like) The 2 places in the mid-west where I lived it was IMPOSSIBLE to find a decent woman over the age of 16 that didn't have kids yet. Once I moved to Florida, it's perfectly common to find a college-educated woman that actually planned their life a little bit. I find people on the coast much more classy and interesting.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[mishehu]

And yet cities can be vast oceans of lonely people unable to connect.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

For the life of me, I can't fathom why anyone would want to live in a big city. Every perk I hear touted, I can beat. It's quiet, I have a yard, and I have more spending money that the saps choking on smog.

I'd like to take a crack at this.

We have major league sports teams. Of course, if you don't like sports, that's not a selling point for you. We have symphony orchestra and museums if you like the artsy side of things. We have restaurants that are fancier that Wendy's. We have pizza places that aren't just Papa John's. We also have Asian restaurants that only serve Japanese food or only serve Thai food and so on. Check out the Oatmeal cartoon on Asian food in a small town here :
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/a...
That's where you live.

But actually the best argument against the small town lifestyle is that in many small towns there's only maybe one major employer and you're lucky enough to work for them in IT. What happens when they go out of business? What happens if they lay you off because they need to save money by either replacing you with offshore IT or just eliminating your position? You end up like so many others - you won't leave your town, but you can't find any other IT work to do. Ever read about those IT workers who got laid 2+ years ago and still can't find a job? That's what happens in small towns.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Anonymous Coward]

I've found people on the coasts to be less friendly than the midwest.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Anonymous Coward]

I did that for a while. The down side was there were only two main tech employers in the town - and one of them was circling the drain. If you get laid off, it's time to uproot the family and move. Now I deal with DC Metro traffic, but if I get laid off, I can have another job before I even get out to the parking lot. But I do miss the small town.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[skam240]

"Silly Con Valley"?

If you do come back please leave your attempts at clever in Idaho.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[WrongMonkey]

Poetic irony is appreciated, but are people in rural areas really any better off?

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Whorhay]

I'll grant you restaurant variety will suffer the smaller the town. That said I live in a place with a population of less than half a million and we've got several Thai places, numerous Korean joints, at least one Japanese eatery I'm aware of, and a couple Indian places. Honestly if there is anything we're really lacking it's good ethnic European foods.

We've got museums and a quality playhouse that puts on shows regularly. Little to no pro sports teams thankfully, though the plague of collegiate sports abounds. There is at least one orchestra in town I can remember hearing about though I haven't really thought of going to see one since grade school.

You don't have to live on the coasts to get cities large enough to support multiple large employers. My current commute is about 7 minutes and the weekly breakdown of my housing and utility expenses is easily under $250. I'm thinking about moving a littler further out of town which will increase my commute to about 15 minutes, but should minimally affect my living costs.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[dave562]

I agree. I live in the Pacific Northwest and previously lived in Irvine, California. I brought my job with me when I moved to my town of ~18,000 people. It is great to be making a California salary with a "small" town cost of living.

I am close enough (20-30 minute drive) to the nearest big city that I can go do all of that nonsense when I feel the urge to. The rest of the time, I have a nice house, a good sized yard and mellow neighbors.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[edx93]

It amounts to preferences. Personally, I would feel depressed as all hell living in a place that's even somewhat isolated: I need to live around people and I need it to be walkable (i.e. not have to depend on a car and drive for miles to get anywhere), which eliminates virtually all cities in the US except Boston, NYC, Chicago, SF and Seattle (from what I gatherl; never been there). Not cheap cities to live in. Of course, it doesn't meant that everybody else feel the same way, but that's my reasoning for living where I do.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[thegarbz]

Every perk I hear touted, I can beat. It's quiet, I have a yard

Shit I can beat that easily. No yard, and the place is a constant place of fun and loud energy. I also own a house in the burbs, but leave that to the boring renters, and live in the city. Many of us chose to live in a big city because what you see as "perks" others see as a lifeless drag.

As my colleague (also big city boy) always says. People sleep in suburbs, people live in cities.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[luis_a_espinal]

I live in the mid-west, and until a recent job change, had a shorter commute than everything in that list - plus a 3 bed house for less than the vast majority of that list. My income is on par with national averages for my job title, yet I have a vastly below average cost of living.

For the life of me, I can't fathom why anyone would want to live in a big city. Every perk I hear touted, I can beat. It's quiet, I have a yard, and I have more spending money that the saps choking on smog.

Because the job pool is greater within a 45-minute commute ratio. When shit hits the fan (which always happens) it is best to have several dozen leads as opposed to just 3 or 4 at the most in the middle of nowhere. I've had colleagues that moved to charming, lower-cost towns to work with that one great employer. Then, shit, poof! Gig is gone and now have to commute 2-3 hours to the big city because they have a house, kids are in school and wife is working in that charming lower-cost town.

I've been in this rodeo for 25 years, and I've seen that played out so many times I know those incidents aren't a fluke. I rather deal with the nasty 45 minute suburban commute and the ridiculous prices to avoid dealing with that.

It's a matter of risk taking. I take risks, but I don't take those kind of risks (specially in a world when turn-over is almost certain every 4-6 years at best, and 2 years at worst.)

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he isn't being clever. Certainly enough silliness and cons around there to make it an accurate moniker.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[mishehu]

I'd say it depends heavily on *how* rural. I personally picked the area I live in because it is on the edge between rural and suburban. So I'm close enough to the city that if I want to be around people, it's easy. But I really do enjoy the peace and quiet back on my property. Only problem I do currently have is the typical lack of internet options given that the lots around here average about 1 1/2 acre per, and mine is significantly larger.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Anonymous Coward]

If you go to Seattle or Man Jose, you'd better import your wife too. With 140 single men for every 100 single women of child-bearing age, good luck finding a wife and mother for any future children once you arrive in either techbropopolis. The local women are so tortured with choice, they're hard pressed to ever settle down with any one single dude. With so many options, these left coast women are making multi-male polyamory the latest fashion.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Anonymous Coward]

NYC at $500 per week is about $2.95 an hour.

To rent.

A $120,000 house with two bath and three bedrooms and a yard in flyover country works out to about $1 an hour* for the 15 years** a median I.T. salary will take to pay off the mortgage.

But you'll have to drive to get to the nearest dive bar.

*assumes a very generous interest rate. Goes up to ~$2 more realistically. Still $200k to own enough space to put up your own garage is less than the $390,000 USD that's probably not rent-controlled but might include water and electricity. And not ever coming back into your pocket.

**subtle problem there if your industry isn't that *cough* stable. *cough*

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Anonymous Coward]

Every perk I hear touted, I can beat.

You are deluding yourself.

There are positives and negatives to everywhere. If the small town or city where you currently live suits your particular set of priorities then fantastic, I'm happy for you. But please realize that others might have different priorities.

(FWIW, I've lived in a broad spectrum of places over the years. Funnily enough, my favorite is somewhat similar to where I grew up - outskirts of a major city, with countryside visible - and accessible - in most directions. The costs are relatively high, but the choices are plentiful.)

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[WrongMonkey]

Making and maintaining meaningful relationships usually takes more than just "being around people". If relationships are not your priority, then I'm glad you have a situation that works out for you. But please understand that most humans being place higher value on the social aspects of life.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, statistically, most people aren't you.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[PJ6]

Yes, the theatres, museums and restaurants in your shithole of city are better than those in New York, Chicago and Washington combined.

Meh. I'd take a short commute any day of the week over those things.

Going out to the really nice places, you keep that for a treat anyway otherwise they get boring. No need to live next to them.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[rtb61]

What people are willing to put up with, makes no sense. Forget those silly measures. I want to be able to buy a home (salary sufficient to make comfortable payments), in close proximity to the place of employment, with some surety of long term employment and a carpark provide, with charge point. I want good grocery shopping within walking distance of the home and entertainment a short drive, again with parking. Infrastructure must be top notch, in good repair and of high quality. The police must be professional, not trigger happy freaks or corrupt as fuck. A clear safe environment, low in pollutants. Proper storm water and sewer services, with reliable energy supply and a fibre optic connection (now also a new requirement, a connection that guarantees privacy)

Fail in any of those and quite simply, fuck off, no job is worth it. Fine when you a really young and don't really know what is going one but once you mature (and not driven by nothing but greed and lust), you want overall quality of life, a proper balance, between work, live and play. Some more personal things, a nice clean public beach close by, parks and gardens for strolls at work and at home. The only give away, a lower salary is fine but it still must be able to make house payments.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[epine]

I'll grant you restaurant variety will suffer the smaller the town. That said I live in a place with a population of less than half a million and we've got several Thai places, numerous Korean joints, at least one Japanese eatery I'm aware of, and a couple Indian places.

That describes one side of a single city block in downtown Vancouver, if you add a Vietnamese Pho, a Starbucks, two decent coffee shops, and a superior French bakery.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Noble713]

For the life of me, I can't fathom why anyone would want to live in a big city. Every perk I hear touted, I can beat. It's quiet, I have a yard, and I have more spending money that the saps choking on smog.

Cities are pretty awesome if you:
-are a bachelor. High population density = high supply of sex partners. Contingent upon your own seduction skills, of course.
-enjoy any "alt" cultural activities. Good luck finding healthy goth communities or regular extreme metal concerts in the middle of South Dakota or something.
-don't want to own a vehicle to fulfill your commute requirements.

I've lived all over the US and now quite a few places in Asia. My preference is for big Japanese cities (EXCEPT the Tokyo area) as the best of all worlds: safe, fairly low pollution, excellent mass transit, still pretty car-friendly (I'm a gearhead), plenty of easy women, convenient and inexpensive air travel, access to decent (if not cheap) international schools for kids, access to parks, and it's easy to get away and enjoy the countryside. The only downside is the tiny and overpriced houses. But if you don't fill your home with a bunch of consumerist crap, the cramped living space really isn't that bad.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Anonymous Coward]

For the life of me, I can't fathom why anyone would want to live in a big city.

Progressives like good weather. They, for some reason, like crowded cities too. They love to feel smug and superior over schmucks like you in flyover country. But they do eventually have a breaking point. Don't boast too much or they will descent on your area like locusts.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[mjwx]

For the life of me, I can't fathom why anyone would want to live in a big city. Every perk I hear touted, I can beat. It's quiet, I have a yard, and I have more spending money that the saps choking on smog.

That isn't beating the perks, that just makes you sound like an old, angry redneck shouting at the sky.

Hey, you don't like the big city, good for you. However that doesn't mean your perspective is the one and only right perspective. I certainly get the appeal of living in a big, lively city. I also see the appeal of living in an area with lower rents and a lot of space. I'm fortunate that I can have the best of both worlds. I'm 45 mins from central London, That means a night out in one of the worlds best cities is a train ride away. However living out in Hants means I can own a car, pay less rent, so on and so forth. There are a few disadvantages like living in UKIP country, lack of general amenities, nightlife, good places to eat, these are things I miss from living in London. If I want a decent burger, it's a 15 mile drive.

City life appeals to a great many people, just because you dont understand that does not make it wrong.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Yet I can have a bonfire with my neighbors and not have to drink $15 beers in an overly loud club filled with hipster douche nozzles.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee, maybe it had to do with the fact that there aren't enough jobs available in rural areas?

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Whorhay]

Like I said, variety suffers, but it isn't so bad as many might think. The last time I lived in a town so small that it didn't have any cultural diversity in eateries the population for the village was 1500. And frankly that was because the diversity there was severely lacking in all ways, there were only 4 or 5 non-Caucasian students in a high school of 450 kids.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[WrongMonkey]

We have house parties in the city, too. And they might be bonfire parties on the beach or rooftop parties in a penthouse or anything in between. If your idea of a city life is $15 beers in the a loud club, then it sounds like you've only had the tourist experience.

FYI As of last night, the going price for a 22 oz craft beer in an arthouse movie theater was $8. When you make up prices that aren't even realistic, it just proves that you don't know what you're talking about.

Re:Thanks, I'll pass on all of them

[Anonymous Coward]

The point GP is making is that in a big city you have 50 different Thai places, so you say "Ooh, yes, let's do Thai tonight, but let's do X because the Tom Kha is better there."

You also get a range of different options: high concept Thai, street food Thai, casual Thai, Thai fusion, etc. You may have that for some cuisines in a small-medium size town (I grew up in one), but a big city has dozens or even hundreds of options for practically every cuisine you've ever heard of. There are definitely cuisines/types/etc. that my hometown never had that I've since been able to try now that I live in a large city, and the competition that they face from each other forces them to provide better food than they would if they were the only option for a cuisine in town.
 

Boy - Did Slashdot Take a Shit

[Anonymous Coward]

So, Slashdot will read the article to us now in the summary section? It's been awhile since I've been here (since Hot Grits and Soviet Russia) and Wow, this place has become pathetic..

What gives?

flaw in their basic assumptions...

[Thud457]

RENT ?!! Like some SERF?!!1!


also, TIL my 45-minute commute is in the "worst" range, with living out in the hinterlands of flyover country.

Re:flaw in their basic assumptions...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well hell, my car commute is 15 minutes. But I bike every day for 45. I guess I'm a clod?

That's right.

[Anonymous Coward]

I can rent a one bedroom apartment for little more than that per month where I live. And when I tell folks that I'd need a minimum 4X increase in pay just to even consider moving out to SV, they sneer. The recruiters BS me about how it's not that expensive and blah blah blah and I should take the 1.5X increase because it's such a HUGE increase and I'm being unreasonable for demanding more than that.

I just say no thank you and they never call me back - especially when I tell them that my family lives in Berkeley so I have a really good idea what it costs to live out there.

Remember, recruiters do NOT work for you but for the employer. They want that commission ASAP and a bird in the hand .... they don't know when you'll get another offer so they'd rather throw you under a bus.

Re:That's right.

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't mention where you live though. I gladly pay more for rent because I live in a fantastic location (Manhattan Beach, California). There is nowhere else in the US that I would rather live.

Re:That's right.

[Austerity Empowers]

They're never going to pay you 4x, it's probably not even worth your time to talk to them. If you consider a move like that, you are banking on equity you have built up being applied to your future home so that the cost is lower: basically you are going to front the cost of moving and absorb the risk that the higher wages make it profitable before the inevitable downsizing and layoffs begin.

It really doesn't pay to move there for most people, which is why most of those companies, even the hold-outs have been opening satellite offices in other places.

Re:That's right.

[Sporkinum]

My cousin lives there, 10 years ago she paid $1000 a month for an apartment the size of my livingroom. I'd guess that may have doubled by now. Granted, she can walk to the beach. I live in small college town Illinois and ride a longboard to work. Takes 6 minutes to go the mile. I gots no beach.. :(

Re:That's right.

[HornWumpus]

And you're in Illinois.

If I'm guessing right, when the wind is wrong, you also get to smell Decatur for days at a time.

Re:That's right.

[dave562]

You must not have to leave your fantastic location very often. Trying to get anywhere ELSE in the region from Manhattan Beach is a serious bitch. Almost as bad as Santa Monica.

Re: That's right.

[Anonymous Coward]

WIU. So not too funky here.

Re:That's right.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know what you are talking about because I have no problem getting around. Both the 405 and 105 are close by.

Maybe you just don't know your way around.

Re:That's right.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just the beach I enjoy. Manhattan Beach is a very clean city, the people are friendly, the women are beautiful and it's right by a major city so there are always plenty of things to do. It's a place that makes me feel happy to be alive.

My rent is $4000/month, but that's for a 3 bedroom place that I share with my girlfriend.

Re:That's right.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know what you are talking about because I have no problem getting around. Both the 405 and 105 are close by.

Maybe you just don't know your way around.

Let's see as I recall, you can't go north or south on the 405 with out hitting Valley or Redondo Beach traffic, can't go west on the 105 because of 405 traffic. Wait where are you going again? Are you watching that Sandra Bullock "Speed" movie again? You know that the highways was *closed* when they filmed that, right?

Re:That's right.

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet I have no problems getting around. Maybe you should stay where you are if a bit of urban traffic scares you.

It also sounds like you're jealous.

Re:That's right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Meh. Looks like Michigan but with less greenery and 20x more people. No thanks. I'll keep my $700 a month beach property with 200ft of private sands.

Re:That's right.

[dave562]

I grew up in Orange. I lived in Long Beach for 15 years and consulted with clients everywhere from northern Orange county, out to Sun Valley at one extreme, the San Fernando Valley, Ventura. Downtown Los Angeles, Vernon. There are very few cities in southern California that I have not been to, multiple times. Hollywood, the ultimate cluster fuck.

I lived in Long Beach exactly because I had to know how to get around. From that city alone you have the 405, 605, 22, 710 and 91 freeways. You can skirt across the port and hit the 110. The 710 is by far one of the best north south freeways in the region. East west sucks no matter what, up until you hit the 210 but that's just because the 210 goes where nobody wants to go. The 10? Blows. 60? Blows. Your precious 105? Hahahaha, blows. Where are you going to take that freeway? Nickerson Gardens? Downey?

That entire metropolitan area is a shit show. There is no "knowing how to get around it" that alleviates the fact that its a parking lot for most of the day and night. Unless you are on the road before 5am, lots of luck driving for more than 20 minutes without dealing with some sort of slowing.

My best commute was from Costa Mesa to Irvine, and that still took about 25 minutes to go less than 10 miles most times of the day.

But but but but....

[Anonymous Coward]

...can you get Chinese food at 3am in the morning? Because seems to be the stock reason why people claim they love living in NYC.

Re:But but but but....

[Anonymous Coward]

...can you get Chinese food at 3am in the morning? Because seems to be the stock reason why people claim they love living in NYC.

I can make Chinese food at 3am. Eating out all the time it's no wonder these city-dwelling millenials are always tight on cash.

Re:But but but but....

[Anonymous Coward]

People in the cities go on and on about "things to do". What do they do in the city? Go to the park? I have beautiful natural forest all over the place here. Go to the beach? I have gobs of beaches to pick from. 5 in a 20 minute radius, and 15 in a 45 minute radius. Go to the clubs? Not my thing, but those are here too. Food? I have every kind of restaurant I could ever want. Museums, events, art? Those are everywhere too. Even throw in some theme parks. What I have that they don't is: a nice yard, safe and quiet atmosphere, tons of fresh air, low cost of living, farmers markets galore, ease of travel.

Re:But but but but....

[speedplane]

...can you get Chinese food at 3am in the morning? Because seems to be the stock reason why people claim they love living in NYC.

Every weekend you can go to world class museums, operas, nightclubs, and virtually every crazy cultural niche you can imagine. The entire planet lives in NYC.

Re:But but but but....

[ghoul]

How do you afford the admission after paying the crazy rent?

Re:But but but but....

[speedplane]

How do you afford the admission after paying the crazy rent?

The variety of free or inexpensive events in NYC is overwhelming: symphonies every week in central park in the summer, $20 rush tickets to the Met opera, the Met museum is free, many other major museums have a free day every week, dozens of free concerts literally every day, free public pools, free gallery tours, free yoga and a variety of exercise classes... it goes on and on, a quick look meetup.com can confirm it. If you want plush treatment, you pay, but being broke is no excuse for not doing stuff here. Besides, what good is money if you're not enjoying it.

Re:But but but but....

[WrongMonkey]

Be a reasonably successful professional in a high paying field. This is slashdot... its safe too assume most people here aren't slinging chalupas at Taco Bell for a living.

Bogus!

[Anonymous Coward]

I know someone that lives in San Fransisco, pays 0 rent, and has no commute to work! Why exclude all the startup techies living in their offices \ parking lots?

South Africa

[codeButcher]

It's strange to me that they mention Cape Town, but not Johannesburg, where arguably the majority of South Africa's (if not the continent's) tech work is done.

The article also is a bit quiet on how they do the exchange rate and cost-of-living conversions between the different countries.

Re:South Africa

[Anonymous Coward]

Looking at it from a foreign perspective I think foreign tech workers might consider moving to Cape Town but are probably in no rush to live in JHB.

What random city selection is that?

[YoungManKlaus]

---

San Jose must be in the middle...

[__aaclcg7560]

I pay $1466 for a studio apartment and make $50K+ per year in IT support in Palo Alto. If I had a car, it would take me 20 minutes in the morning and 45 to 90 minutes in the afternoon. By taking the express bus (one hour each way) for an extra $70 per month, I get read The Wall Street Journal in the morning and an ebook in the afternoon. Why drive when others can drive for you?

Re:San Jose must be in the middle...

[Major Blud]

I pay $1466 for a studio apartment and make $50K+ per year in IT support in Palo Alto. If I had a car, it would take me 20 minutes in the morning and 45 to 90 minutes in the afternoon. By taking the express bus (one hour each way) for an extra $70 per month, I get read The Wall Street Journal in the morning and an ebook in the afternoon. Why drive when others can drive for you?

I think the real concern is that you're spending 35% of your salary on rent, and that's before taxes.

Re:San Jose must be in the middle...

[__aaclcg7560]

I think the real concern is that you're spending 35% of your salary on rent, and that's before taxes.

That's the lowest it has been in years. There were times in the past when I had to pay 50% for rent, which isn't unusual in Silicon Valley or other metropolitan areas. But I live a very modest lifestyle.

Re:San Jose must be in the middle...

[IcyWolfy]

How did you find a studio for so cheap? The best I could find while looking this past couple months is $2500/mo for a studio. :|

Re:San Jose must be in the middle...

[__aaclcg7560]

How did you find a studio for so cheap?

I got my studio apartment in 2005 after the dot com bust and everyone moved out of Silicon Valley. Since the apartment complex was built before 1978, the city of San Jose limited rent increases to 8% per year (recently reduced to 5% per year). Back then I paid $810 per month, $199 for deposit and got a free microwave oven for signing a one-year lease. My current rent of $1,466 per month is $300 per month below the "luxury" rates that's currently being charged.

Re:San Jose must be in the middle...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're getting fleeced for $50k while 'enjoying' an hour commute.
I mean, have fun getting literally nothing done financially, AND YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A CAR!!!

Please reflect on your decisions and look to other cities where you can make the same money with a lower cost of living and you'd be able to own a car.

Re:San Jose must be in the middle...

[vovin]

Rent control.
50K is considered poverty level by the county (for an individual) in that area.
If they were paying market rate the rent is closer to 2500/mo.

Also starting wage for IT is closer to 120k in the area (at the bottom end) and 160k median so I hope you have some amazing benefits ...
Where are you doing IT is Palo Alto, Frys?

Re:San Jose must be in the middle...

[__aaclcg7560]

50K is considered poverty level by the county (for an individual) in that area.

You have to work 20 hours or less at minimum wage to qualify for any kind of government assistance.

If they were paying market rate the rent is closer to 2500/mo.

Market rate for my studio apartment in San Jose is $1750. The funny thing is that the 50-year-old apartment complex I live in charges the same "luxury" rate as the new apartment complex down the street. When I first moved in nearly 12 years ago, it looked like a 1960's housing project and you could sniff out 20 different varieties of pot smoke.

Also starting wage for IT is closer to 120k in the area (at the bottom end) and 160k median so I hope you have some amazing benefits ...

The nation-wide project I'm working on pays the same $50K+ to senior admins and $80K+ for engineers. Doesn't matter if you live in San Francisco, New York City or Jerkwater USA. Since I don't work directly for the prime contractor, my subcontractor is far more generous. I got an extra month of pay as a Christmas bonus.

Where are you doing IT is Palo Alto, Frys?

Government IT with responsibility for 80,000+ workstations in the Western US.

Re:San Jose must be in the middle...

[__aaclcg7560]

You're getting fleeced for $50k while 'enjoying' an hour commute.

My one-hour commute takes me directly from the doorstep of my apartment to the doorstep of my job.

I mean, have fun getting literally nothing done financially, AND YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A CAR!!!

I save 20% of my income for savings, brokerage and retirment. If I needed a car, I could pay cash for a used car or drive off the lot with a 2.24% loan from my credit union.

Please reflect on your decisions and look to other cities where you can make the same money with a lower cost of living and you'd be able to own a car.

Last car died with blown head gasket and broken piston six months after I replaced the brakes and tires. The car before that died from a blown alternator six weeks after replacing the fuel regulator. Since my current job has a convenient commute, I'm in no hurry to get another car.

ITT: Idiots

[AcidPenguin9873]

Actually clicked through to the article, only to skip reading just about any of it.

Re:ITT: Idiots

[Verdatum]

There really wasn't much to this particular article...Are you a troll?

Re:ITT: Idiots

[AcidPenguin9873]

I mean, I guess. Although maybe I'm the one who is being trolled by all the commenters who said that the article had to be bullshit because the rent numbers couldn't possibly be accurate, without reading the title of the graph that indicated that the rent amount was weekly, not monthly.

Re:ITT: Idiots

[sconeu]

Screw TFA's graph, even TFS said that it was weekly.

SF median 1-bed = $4225/mo ($975/week) in 2015

[Anonymous Coward]

Prices have gone up since then, but SF Gate reported San Francisco's median rent in 2015 was $4225/mo.

$4225/mo × 12mo/y ÷ 52w/y = $975/week.

This number seems about right to me (I pay more, but I live down town; I also work down town, with a 10 minute walking commute).

Re:SF median 1-bed = $4225/mo ($975/week) in 2015

[Anonymous Coward]

$4225/mo

Holy shit. I would never want to waste one quarter of my income on rent. Call me one guy who didn't leave my heart in San Francisco, nor do I wear flowers in my hair.

Re:SF median 1-bed = $4225/mo ($975/week) in 2015

[MrLogic17]

>$4225/mo × 12mo/y ÷ 52w/y = $975/week.

Good gravy! Think of it this way - if you moved out of the tech bubble area into a normal place, you would effectively get a raise of $3,000/month ($36,000 / year) on housing savings alone. And have a bigger, better house. And no traffic. And cheaper cost of living on everything else you spend money on.

Conservatively, you're easily paying (losing) +45,000 / year just to say you live someplace cool. Hope it's worth it to you.

Re:SF median 1-bed = $4225/mo ($975/week) in 2015

[Anonymous Coward]

$4225/mo × 12mo/y ÷ 52w/y = $975/week.

Good gravy! Think of it this way - if you moved out of the tech bubble area into a normal place, you would effectively get a raise of $3,000/month ($36,000 / year) on housing savings alone. And have a bigger, better house. And no traffic. And cheaper cost of living on everything else you spend money on.

Conservatively, you're easily paying (losing) +45,000 / year just to say you live someplace cool. Hope it's worth it to you.

(I'm the AC that posted that math)

Yes, I understand what premium I'm paying to be surrounded by this much awesomeness, as do many of SF's other effectively "middle class" tech workers (we fit into the top 10% nationwide, but in SF, we're not so special). SF is a rotating door; you either make your big bucks with a startup that takes off or else you enjoy the high life for a few years before getting priced out. I've got about a year left, and I will indeed enjoy it.

As to the "$36,000 / year" that I'm losing ... that assumes a $1,225/mo ($283/wk) rent that retains my current salary, which (if I were to stick to a tech hub city) would requiring moving outside the US. Employers tend to adjust salaries for lowered cost of living, so you can't do the math that way.

"+45,000 / year" is $475/mo, which is $110/wk. The cheapest place listed in TFA is Seoul at $153/wk and the cheapest US techie city's rent is Seattle at $441/wk. Where did you get that number? [Insert joke about Mom's basement here.]

Re:SF median 1-bed = $4225/mo ($975/week) in 2015

[Bob the Super Hamste]

That is why I tell the recruiters for companies in those area that they can't afford me. I want at a minimum the same standard of living I have now and things are negotiable but they won't offer enough to even come close. In silicon valley my house would be a multi million dollar property (will be paid off in 9 years), and my recreational property (owned outright) would probably be as well. Add in that I am able to save 30% of my income, am in a really good school district, and what ever premium you would have to pay me to deal with the CA crazy, drought, mud slides, forest fires, earthquakes, etc. and and you would be looking at several multiples of what I make instead of a 10%-20% increase over my current pay.

Re:SF median 1-bed = $4225/mo ($975/week) in 2015

[ezelkow1]

+1 its why I never look at anything near SF and would never consider it

Just to maintain the same cost of living they would have to pay me 1.6x my current salary, and thats to maintain. Let alone I would still be facing an increase in housing costs since I bought my house at the bottom of the bubble and its value has increased 1.5x since then. All that for a gain of ................... nothing. Living in colorado we have all the exact amenities that SF can provide and more, except for a bay, all while costing much less.

Ive never understood the mindset of SF/NYC's 'awesomeness'. Ive been to both, multiple times. Sure there may be lots of things to do and places to eat, but in a diverse large city such as denver, or austin, or the ilk of those, you can find all the exact same things to do, types of food and restaurants to eat at, etc. You just may have 10-20 choices instead of 100

Re:SF median 1-bed = $4225/mo ($975/week) in 2015

[Anonymous Coward]

Seattle isn't cheap. I wouldn't even say that Minneapolis (where I live for around $270/week) is cheap. As for the 45k/year figure...probably a mix between rent and other high SF costs.

Come to Cape Breton, Nova Scotia

[xtal]

Humble homes available well under $100k CDN, some for less than $50k CDN.. ...all with gigabit fiber to the home, 5 minutes no traffic to an airport with direct flights to Toronto. (2h 30m).

Enjoy the cities. I'm living the good life. You can too, if you can work remotely in Canada!

Re:Come to Cape Breton, Nova Scotia

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, no family doctors unless you sign up for a multi-year waiting list.

And most of your neighbours are uneducated and/or elderly.

Re:Come to Cape Breton, Nova Scotia

[Anonymous Coward]

Anonymous; I actually have a couple of contracts on the go in Halifax. So I won't risk divulging anything about myself ... ;)

Cape Breton is a lovely town. One does lead a sheltered existence, unless you like pub fare and do you shopping at the Bay or Canadian Tire. It's like a place frozen in time, representing how most interior (read non-Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Hamilton, London and Vancouver) towns were 30 years ago. Gigabit Internet you say? Good for you. I certainly don't have that where I live (gotta make do with 100MB).

The job market is terrible in Cape Breton, especially in IT. At least from what I've seen in Sydney. Halifax would be better.

The lower property values are an excellent indication of demand and I hate to say it, quality of life. Not saying that living in congested Oakville, ON or Richmond, BC is nirvana, but places like that offer a balance of things.

NS has about 3-4 weeks of summer (not unique in the Maritimes).

If I had to live anywhere in the Maritimes I would probably pick Moncton or Saint John's in NB.

Re:Come to Cape Breton, Nova Scotia

[phantomfive]

The price I pay for never having to shovel snow.

austin? 16 minute commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

what the hell?

i didn't know texas legalized weed already.

ooooh... that 16 minute commute time was for austin MINNESOTA..

that makes more sense. much more sense.

Vancouver Missing

[Erioll]

Vancouver is massive for Tech in Canada... and I turned down $50,000 more money because I'd have to get a tiny apartment to be within an HOUR of where I'd work, for comparable money to a house just about anywhere else except Toronto. That Vancouver wasn't on this list is very very weird.

Re:Vancouver Missing

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably not enough tech jobs to have a significant sample. I have several friends here in Seattle that moved from Vancouver since they couldn't find jobs since that is an anti-tech city like LA.

Re:Vancouver Missing

[barc0001]

Very unlikely that there aren't enough tech jobs here in Vancouver. Tech sector is large. I think what your friends meant was there weren't enough jobs that paid what they were willing to take, which is a definite problem. So it's even more puzzling that Vancouver was left off this list.

Re:Vancouver Missing

[A5un]

Vancouver is not massive at all for tech, compared to Seattle, only 2h due South by car. And if you go further south to Bay area, then it's a whole other world of massive. I know because I've lived in those places. Note that everything is at least twice as expensive in Bay area compared to Vancouver, including the pay.

Re: Vancouver Missing

[Anonymous Coward]

Knew a guy who lived in Friday Harbor, and worked in Victoria.

Biggest problem with the commute was when the Coast Guard inspected the boat on his way to work.

Re:Vancouver Missing

[ark1]

Real estate prices in Vancouver can rival that of Bay Area, salaries not so much.

Tulsa

[T.E.D.]

Just crunched the numbers for my hometown (Tulsa, OK). Both the average rents ($175/month) and the average commute (21.3 minutes) would be in their top 5.

Yeah, we're not exactly a famous tech hub. But we do have a pretty decent concentration of telecommunications and flight simulation work here. Enough to keep me employed and happy with my 15-30 minute commute and my house that would cost $3.5 Million in San Fran.

questionable source material

[sloth_jr]

The full Savills report (http://pdf.euro.savills.co.uk/global-research/tech-cities-2017.pdf) doesn't really mention how they selected the "top 22 cities", only how the cities they selected rank comparatively and the metrics they used to differentiate them. A cynic might be inclined to think that a "property consultancy" is mostly interested in pitching cities they have active property in.

Since one of the advantages of "tech" (let's just call them software startups) is the possibility of remote working, maybe the answer to the "top 22 cities" to do tech in is - the one you live and work in already?

Berlin

[Anonymous Coward]

While Berlin is cool and cheap and has an awesome transport system, the rents are going up, not only for citizens but also for companies. Maybe in 2 years we'll have to commute for longer periods, and pay way higher rents.

Any way, and just for the record, it takes me 7 minutes by bike, and 20 by either foot or metro.

Berlin kind of wins, except...

[Anonymous Coward]

...that their startup/tech scene gets a shit ton less funding and most of the companies are copycats of US companies. Soundcloud is their biggest name and they've been struggling for awhile now. I also think it's more saturated with developers than most US cities. Pretty common for developers to work for barely sustainable salaries until they develop a reputation and connections there. It does have an advantage of still being affordable compared to other cities with a decent local tech/startup industry around the world. If you're sick of cities full of rich people and well off yuppies on one extreme and very poor people on welfare or who are homeless on the other like it is in the US, though there are plenty of poorer people there, that feeling of extreme wealth inequality isn't nearly as jarring.

Debatably, Amsterdam may be a better city overall (nicer people, doesn't attract as many stuck up spoiled hipsters and club kids, more attractive looking city minus the tourist area and public housing), but like Stockholm, they have a major issue with there being enough apartments to meet demand. If you're moving there from somewhere else, it's unlikely you'll find an apartment in or close to the iconic canal area of the city. I've heard some have had to get apartments in neighboring cities, like Haarlem, and commute to work in Amsterdam from there, though it's not that far away (30-40 min). As others have pointed out about Stockholm, most foreigners say they have to jump from subleases indefinitely unless they're willing to move to a place pretty far from the city center. Most apartments are rent controlled and you have to join a list for an opportunity at one of them, which takes around 15 years or more.

Any college town?

[SuperKendall]

It seems like any kind of college town you can get some food somewhere late.

When I've visited NYC, it didn't seem like many things were open especially late to me. Not even close to Vegas for example...

LOL AUSTIN

[Anonymous Coward]

Ive been in Austin about 3 yrs. The traffic is a nightmare. This isnt even close to debatable.

But sure, if you live really close to work then your commute will be short.

Meaningless?

[bradley13]

Isn't this kind of meaningless?

"The pattern of a trade-off between rent and length of commute is evident when you look at the cities with the cheapest rent and shortest commutes. Workers in Austin only have an average 16-minute commute to work, but pay among the highest rents at $476 a week. Workers in Seoul, meanwhile, pay the lowest rent, $153 a week, but have to endure a 40-minute commute, the fourth longest on the list."

In virtually any city, each individual makes that trade-off for themselves. Live farther out, have a longer commute but cheaper rent. Live close in, have a short commute but higher rent.

OT: Austin used to be a lovely city, before it was "discovered". Now it's a satellite of California, both in terms of size (and horrible traffic), and in terms of progressive politics. Californian refugees are repeating the same mistakes that drove them out of CA - pushing things like "light rail", "rent control" and all the rest. Whipping up SJW outrage, for example, the recent survey claiming that 15% of UT undergraduates are raped (the trick: "verbal pressure" counts as rape). A sad fate for a once-nice Texas city.

Re:Meaningless?

[Anonymous Coward]

The entire thing is void. The Seoul number is ignoring how rent works there. Sure rent is cheaper weekly due to the insane move in costs.

Re:Meaningless?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I was coming here to post on this. I wonder what year their data is from? (the full report is behind Javascript and I don't care to enable it.) Austin's one-way commute certainly doesn't average 16 minutes unless you're only counting people on flex time who don't have to drive any time near rush "hour". Or only people willing to pay $2k a month for an apartment close to it, as their numbers suggest.

The Californication is definitely true, too, but it's hardly limited to Austin. I grew up in Colorado and people were complaining about the same thing. Amazing how they're slowly spreading out and duplicating all the things they wanted to get away from. Not sure how many stages there have been so far, but it's beyond the first or second wave for sure.

Re:Meaningless?

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty much, everyone has their personal preferences.

I love the climate in Seattle, yeah it grey and gloomy for 9 months with epic nice but short summers, rarely windy, I hate wind. Otherwise its not too hot, not too cold, not too humid, no bugs, snows a little over winter for fun.

If you're willing to think outside the box and dont give a sh*t about living in the trendy cool hip whatever 'hoods everyone else is falling over them selves to, then you can make some good money and afford a nice place, if you're willing to narrow it down to where the southline Sounder commuter train runs into south King co and Pierce co, then you can also cut out dealing with traffic.

Re:Meaningless?

[Anonymous Coward]

OT: Austin used to be a lovely city, before it was "discovered". Now it's a satellite of California, both in terms of size (and horrible traffic), and in terms of progressive politics. Californian refugees are repeating the same mistakes that drove them out of CA - pushing things like "light rail", "rent control" and all the rest.

Beware the beast Progressive, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he gets all smug for sport, or lust or envy. Yea, he will tax his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him. Drive him back into his California liar, for he is the harbinger of death. /Cornelius

rent in Seoul

[godrik]

I am not sure it makes sense to talk about rent in Seoul, Korea. Many people are living on the jeonse system where you give a massive security deposit that the landlord will invest (and give you back when you leave) in exchange for the rent to be very low or even free.

So speaking of "rent" might be very biased. Any Korean around to give feed back on these numbers?

Re:rent in Seoul

[Anonymous Coward]

You are correct, that most families will be living on the (ridiculous and arcane) Jeon-Se system (if they don't own their apartment unit, that is).

Under the Jeon-Se system, there is no periodic rental payments. It's just one big lump sum at the start, which you get back when you leave.

The rental figures for Seoul, therefore, will most likely only represent people living alone in studio apartments.

Bullshit on Seoul

[Anonymous Coward]

Seoul ($153); maybe, if they're still living with their parents. Seoul is stupid expensive if you don't already have property.

Missed one

[thunderclees]

The story missed a big one, visa maggots.

Bull twaddle, Seattle is best

[WillAffleckUW]

Look, it's only our suburbs where people drive 2-3 hours some days. If you actually LIVE in Seattle near where you work, your bike commute is maybe 15 minutes and you can walk that in 30 minutes. I do it all the time. If it's raining I hop on a bus and it's 30 minutes.

Only suckers drive in Seattle.

And as for Rent, only suckers pay rent in Seattle. You can buy a 2 bedroom no garage townhouse in Fremont (in Seattle) for like $250k. Your mortgage will be half what rent would be. I pay way less for my mortgage than my friends who rent.

You.
Are.
Doing.
It.
Wrong.

Re:Bull twaddle, Seattle is best

[PPH]

Only suckers live in Seattle.

FTFY.

There's a lot more to life than a short commute to work from a cubby hole. Google and Microsoft are steering clear of the city proper in order to attract talent, because people at those skill levels want a life after working hours. And the night life in Seattle isn't that nice either. The two major issues that were raised about life in the city were housing costs and too many homeless people. So enjoy getting grabbed riding your bicycle by one of the hobo camps in the evening.

Re:Bull twaddle, Seattle is best

[WillAffleckUW]

Google and Microsoft are steering clear of the city proper in order to attract talent, because people at those skill levels want a life after working hours. And the night life in Seattle isn't that nice either. The two major issues that were raised about life in the city were housing costs and too many homeless people. So enjoy getting grabbed riding your bicycle by one of the hobo camps in the evening.

Um, wrong. It's in city limits. It IS the city proper.

Don't try to tell me about Seattle - the suburbs in other cities have more homeless people per capita, actually.

Re:Bull twaddle, Seattle is best

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you need to go house shopping again. A 2 BR anywhere near Seattle is $500K+. Even tear-downs are a half-million.

Re:Bull twaddle, Seattle is best

[WillAffleckUW]

Wrong. I know where I live.

The fact you don't know about bike-friendly townhouses next to schools and parks is not my problem. In my neighborhood - I walk past them.

You probably think we all live in $1 million houses on Mercer Island.

Re: Bull twaddle, Seattle is best

[Anonymous Coward]

Go price the tear downs in Wallingford. $500,000 is not out of the question.

There were teardowns in Shoreline that went for more than a million dollars.

Re: Bull twaddle, Seattle is best

[WillAffleckUW]

That's because Wallingford used to be a low income U Dist granola spillover that has been artificially restricted from development, driving up land and house prices, due to the proximity to SLU and Green Lake and I-5 and SR-520 and the U Dist.

Rezone it 6+2 story MFH and watch prices drop.

Seriously, don't any of you understand basic economics of scarcity?

(aside - there were car townhouses - 3 story - in Wallingford back around 2005 for only $250k - you should have bought then)

Look, 1000 people a WEEK move to Seattle. Get used to it.

Re:Bull twaddle, Seattle is best

[knisa]

Who the hell wants to live in Seattle? I don't even like working here... You get out to the suburbs and it's nice, but expensive. You have to go either waaay out (like past North Bend or Yelm or something), settle for a crowded apartment complex / condo / townhome, or live in a rat hole in Kent. I'm at 90 minutes average right now if I carpool. The bus is two hours, and I'm still around 90-105 minutes if I try to do the Sounder and transfer to local transit when I hit the city.

I can't tolerate being in that close of a space with that many people, so I'll stick with driving.

Re:Bull twaddle, Seattle is best

[WillAffleckUW]

Who the hell wants to live in Seattle? I don't even like working here... You get out to the suburbs and it's nice, but expensive. You have to go either waaay out (like past North Bend or Yelm or something), settle for a crowded apartment complex / condo / townhome, or live in a rat hole in Kent. I'm at 90 minutes average right now if I carpool. The bus is two hours, and I'm still around 90-105 minutes if I try to do the Sounder and transfer to local transit when I hit the city.

I can't tolerate being in that close of a space with that many people, so I'll stick with driving.

Then leave. We won't miss you.

Re:Bull twaddle, Seattle is best

[painandgreed]

You can buy a 2 bedroom no garage townhouse in Fremont (in Seattle) for like $250k. Your mortgage will be half what rent would be. I pay way less for my mortgage than my friends who rent.

You. Are. Doing. It. Wrong.

Ya, but you're forgetting to mention the HOA, plus the risk that comes with all apartment neighbors, but you can't easily move away from them. Just went through all the searching and weighing options last year. I opted for the extra space and fixed costs. My commute went from a 20 minute walk to a 30 minute drive because I test drove for the various neighborhoods first. Still, the housing market last year was insane considering what it was two years ago when I started looking and I haven't heard of it getting any better. Looking on Redfin now, there's nothing in Freemont till you hit $325k and chances are you'll need a good escalation clause on that because not much has been going for asking cost in the last year and a half.

not enough data

[j2.718ff]

What about salary comparison? Places with higher rent tend to involve higher salary (though not necessarily proportionally so). Without an indication of salary, the rental prices provide little useful data.

London is so shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yeah. London is so shit.

Just this morning I was saying "I wanna move to Austin Texas or Cape Town."

Not.

DFW

[Anonymous Coward]

Dallas / Fort Worth not even on the list.

That's good. You don't want to move here. There are NO jobs. The weather sucks. There aren't any women here. We only have Golden Corral and McDonalds to eat at. I have yet to find a single museum or ANY live music. Nobody in Dallas even knows what art is.

This especially goes for people from the East or West coasts. Just don't do it. It's a silly place with only crime riddled slums and roving gangs of violent red necks.

Sad that rent is a metric

[Nkwe]

It is sad that the cost of rent and not the cost of a house / mortgage is being used as a benchmark when talking about IT, which is usually considered a higher paying profession. The concept that higher paying professions aren't assumed by default as leading you to property / home ownership is worrying. Yes, I get that "IT" spans a wide range from low level call center work to senior level architects, but nonetheless, it is a sad statement on the state of our world.

Santa Cruz: bad drive, cash-in on Silicon Valley

[Anonymous Coward]

It comes down to math. I've saved 300k in the last four years by living in Santa Cruz County and commuting to Silicon Valley. I have zero debt. And I have a 48-minute commute. And I love what I do: I work with all the latest hardware, I write device drivers, and I have an awesome manager, and she's great at letting me work-from-home when I need, and at getting me promotions (and associated raises).

Forget the other stats. Can you save better than $300k in four years where you work? If so, you are right and I'm wrong, and Silicon Valley is not for you, and I fucking want to know where you are at so I can get out of this desert.

I think perspective is needed here: Silicon Valley pays a boatload. If you want to live in San Francisco so you can have a 48 minute commute to Silicon Valley, that's your choice, and you'll lose $$$. But if you choose one of the surrounding communities, you can sock away a fortune in short-time.

Please please please, correct me if I'm wrong. Other SV engineers may be doing like me, and just going day-to-day like morons.

Work from home

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish more jobs let us work from home. We'd same on commute time, and we'd be able to live where we wanted instead of where the jobs are.

Pretty simple explanation

[jon3k]

Most tech workers are young so they can live "downtown" near work so they have access to events, restaurants and the night life.

47 minutes? That's pretty short.

[Anonymous Coward]

It takes the worst city 47 minutes to commute?

I've been working in the tech sector for my country for five years with an average commute time of 2.5 HOURS one way.

Why isn't my city listed there?

Re:47 minutes? That's pretty short.

[OrangeTide]

47 minutes on average. That very likely means some people are commuting 10 minutes, and others are commuting 90 minutes or more. You're one of those outliers that pulls the average up. If there are a lot of you, then the average is pulled up a lot.

I work with people who live 4 hours drive to the office. They try not to commute when possible, other times they end up taking a hotel or sleeping in their car. But it's not necessarily the house prices here that are keeping them so far away from work.

Re:Santa Cruz: bad drive, cash-in on Silicon Valle

[Anonymous Coward]

That's awesome news, and I was convinced you were right before you even posted. My wife and I are already preparing to sell our house in San Jose and move to Santa Cruz or maybe Aptos, Capitola, Monterey, etc.

Spending Friday nights in the summer on the Beach Boardwalk is way more to my liking than trying to find a good restaurant in San Jose. And my rush hour commute of less than 15 miles from Santa Clara to Milpitas/San Jose is already 50 minutes. The traffic has gotten ridiculous in the last 5 years.

Seoul

[Zanadou]

Seoul: $143 week rent + 40 minutes commute??

Obviously that's living somewhere out in Suwon in a one-room closet. Makes sense.

Re:Seoul

[Anonymous Coward]

Seoul: $143 week rent + 40 minutes commute??

Obviously that's living somewhere out in Suwon in a one-room closet. Makes sense.

Still not buying it.

Personally I wouldn't mind a place in Itaewon, though someplace around Myeongdong would be pretty good too. The biggest obstacle, , guess i don't won't it enough.

Methodology Limits Selection

[Anonymous Coward]

The company stated its study was for "The cities at the forefront of global tech 2017". PDF which explains its selection criteria (not as detailed as I'd like but what I could find):
http://pdf.euro.savills.co.uk/global-research/tech-cities-2017.pdf
 

What defines a Savills Tech City?
- A major tech hub in its global region
- Presence of home grown start-ups and incubators
- Top choice for expanding global tech companies
- Vibrant urban environments, magnets for talent

There are a plenty of "major tech hub in its global region" that do not meet other criteria. Study is good for what it chose to focus on. Wish they could have expanded it further.

EDIT: Capcha - avoiding.

you ARE NOT DRIVING 16 MINS IN AUSTIN, EVER!

[Anonymous Coward]

No fucking way. Period. No discussion. Lies.

Also, Tokyo?

[schnipschnap]

55% of all workers have a commute that takes longer than one hour according to this article: http://toyokeizai.net/articles...
Direct link to info graphic: http://tk.ismcdn.jp/mwimgs/4/0... (maybe you can sort of read it without speaking Japanese)
Based on personal experience and the fact that tech workers don't get paid all that much, this is unlikely to be much different for tech workers. 24 minutes is _maybe_ possible for people who work at Rakuten, which recently moved to the Kanagawa-prefecture border of Tokyo.
(Note: I just recently moved far away from Tokyo to Shimane because of the long commute times.)

NH: Liberty, freedom, good pay, low cost of living

[Anonymous Coward]

For those who want a social life and are liberty-minded New Hampshire is the place to move. There isn't a city or town in New Hampshire where there aren't other like-minded people thanks to the Free State Project and Shire Society (among other groups promoting migration) who just want to live free- and are engaged in all sorts of activism to that end.

The cost of living is peanuts compared to California, Washington, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and other similar places. Jobs are plentiful and pay excellent. I moved from New Jersey and was similarly situated from major population centers as I am now and in a town of a similar size- the big difference is I pay less in property taxes- no income tax- no sales tax- and have a home that would go for $350,000 in the area I moved from which cost me $200,000 (3 bedroom two car garage ranch, sun room, family, living, dining, huge basement, sizeable yard, close to town, and fiber internet). I make exactly the same amount of money here as I did back in New Jersey. The weather is about the same as well.

In New Hampshire you are probably no more than 2 hours from a major international airport either as the majority of the population lives in the southern part of the state. And for most are no more than an hour for those living in our "bigger" cities like Concord, Manchester, and Nashua.

Get connected to the freedom-loving New Hampshire community where we think government need to just go- all of it-

http://www.freestateproject.org/ anti-drivers licenses/license plates/vehicle registration/licensing/taxes/government schooling/indoctrination programs/welfare/drug 'crimes'/gun regulation/censorship/monitoring/public policing/etc

http://www.freekeene.com/ liberty oriented news happenings in NH- from state house bills (video too!) to protests to cop blocking (police accountability) to court cases- all involving activism going on to undo the state and end the violence

http://www.freetalklive.com/ one of the best biggest most widely listened to liberty oriented radio shows in the world (right out of NH)- 7 days a week 3 hours of programming

https://www.somaliafest.com/ check out Somalia Fest 2017 this summer June 16th-20th for anti-copy"right" anti-intellectual "property" pirate party style event (copy"right" is an artificial construct- you can't steal what you aren't able deprive someone of- the copy doesn't deprive the possessor of the original- ie it's not theft)... followed by Porcfest (a general liberty event run by the Free State Project)

http://www.victimlesscrimespree.com/ Derrick J's Victimless Crime Spree - awesome documentary on a civil disobedience activists first year in NH

http://101reasonsfilm.com/ 101 Reasons: Liberty Lives in New Hampshire

http://www.gunsandweed.com/ Guns and Weed – The Road To Freedom

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgnVXppkmzBKfTOwe-KqAJQ/videos New England Cop Chasers (also known as cop blocking- which is police accountability work- ie going out and recording police- whom frequently are abusive and violate peoples rights whom don't know better and/or are unable to defend themselves)

I commute to Stockholm

[jools33]

I commute to Stockholm daily (ranked 3rd in journey times). My commute takes a bit over an hour each way (75 minutes or there abouts).
If you can afford a downtown apartment, and were on the apartment waiting lists before your Swedish grandparents were born, then your commute could be more like how the survey considers it. Otherwise if your not so lucky (or like me you have moved here from overseas) then an hours commute is the norm.

Re:Sydney commute?

[Anonymous Coward]

I worked in Sydney for four years, and I had an 800 metre commute (I walked). I admit, though, my rent was horrible, because I was living in North Sydney.

what do they consider "san francisco"

[Anonymous Coward]

in the city or out and commuting to where - if you live in SF and work @ google your commute is a lot longer than 33 minutes, If you live in the outer sunset or south near CCSF and state you are looking at over an hour commute - if you live in the east bay near transportation your commute can be anywhere from 20 minutes to over an hour into the city..... but a lot of companies aren't in the city anymore - they are on the penninsula

Austin commute time

[Anonymous Coward]

You have to be joking. My last commute time in Austin (before I started working from home) was 35-40 minutes, on a good day, and I was considered extremely lucky.