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Apple To Develop Its Own GPU, UK Chip Designer Imagination Reveals In 'Bombshell' PR (anandtech.com)
From a report on AnandTech: In a bombshell of a press release issued this morning, Imagination has announced that Apple has informed their long-time GPU partner that they will be winding down their use of Imagination's IP. Specifically, Apple expects that they will no longer be using Imagination's IP in 15 to 24 months. Furthermore the GPU design that replaces Imagination's designs will be, according to Imagination, "a separate, independent graphics design." In other words, Apple is developing their own GPU, and when that is ready, they will be dropping Imagination's GPU designs entirely. This alone would be big news, however the story doesn't stop there. As Apple's long-time GPU partner and the provider for the basis of all of Apple's SoCs going back to the very first iPhone, Imagination is also making a case to investors (and the public) that while Apple may be dropping Imagination's GPU designs for a custom design, that Apple can't develop a new GPU in isolation -- that any GPU developed by the company would still infringe on some of Imagination's IP. As a result the company is continuing to sit down with Apple and discuss alternative licensing arrangements, with the intent of defending their IP rights.
Because they couldn't get around the patents they had. They must have figured out another way to do things if they're just cutting them loose.
Poor guys, the stock was down 63% this morning.
The summary seems to suggest that but the title is vague. It would arguably be an even bigger bombshell if they were developing a GPU to compete with NVIDIA and ATI on the desktop market.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Don't complain. Who watches the watchers?
Moderate the moderators! Yes, there is actually a way to do this. Someone could invent this thing. Call it meta-moderation. And patent it! With rounded corners! It would be the best! Trust me! It would go over bigly! I promise!
I can't tolerate intolerant people! I am totally intolerant of intolerant people!
There are no absolutes! Absolutely no absolutes! And that rule is absolute!
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
I bet it will work with quadrangles, because triangles aren't "magical", and will work only with 10bit depth textures.
So far Apple haven't given a crap about graphics performance. You don't have to be an anti-fanboi to see this, even Apple fanbois admit that the GPU in existing Apple kit, especially the so called 'pro' series, is lacking and the fanboi will say that this is because Apple users have better things to do with their time than play games.
Suddenly Apple cares enough to develop their own GPU? Are they hoping that game developers are going to start targeting the Apple user market which, for so long now, has been mostly disinterested in gaming? Are they hoping to win back the 3d graphics professionals that they've been neglecting all these long years?
The only direction this could be headed is mobile GPU.
Desktop graphics is a totally lost cause for Apple. No game studio is going to develop games for a platform whose users are basically disinterested in desktop gaming; because if someone were interested in desktop gaming they would have bought a PC not a Mac.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
We will make the wall taller and insurmountable
We will grow more stuff inside and import less and less.
By the time the inmates realize the walled garden is a prison, it would be too late. All other gardens would have been starved and withered and desolate.
Then, ... profit?
I remember another company trying to corner the desktop market for themselves.
Actually one can back all the way to Morgan trying to corner the silver market.
Well, free market and invisible hand all that will find some solution. But the people rewarded by the free markets would not be the ones hurt by the walled garden.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
When every brand had their own GPU ideas, CPU ideas and music chip support.
A tight new GPU design could see the kind of advancements some of the most creative game designers made with gpu support in the 1980's
Real freedom to be creative on one platform again. Not having to worry about the port, Windows, other devices.
A better in house GPU to keep developers happy. Been less tempted by easy porting and more productive on one OS.
The users then have to buy a hardware product range to play the must have game.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
For you who this isn't completely obvious: This is entirely about mobile GPUs. This has nothing about Apple trying to dominate AMD or Nvidia in the desktop space.
- Henrik
- when the Shadows descend -
It makes sense why they don't support Vulkan in light of that which is purely Apple decision. So whats gonna happen. They will introduce their own VR. Since VR is already on market and they are LATE to the party, somewhat. No one will want to invest into homogeneous enterprise. So they gonna try hard, and loose good chunk of fan base. Wellcome back to Windows our older more lazy users who ned to have shit done, welcome to Linux, those willing to learn.
Actually the thing that should be banned are ACs, like the GP post.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
sue.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
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You'd think, then, if this was indeed the issue and they were unable to compete, they'd use some of the HUMONGOUS profit margin they make on the iPhones and iPads and buy the same (or similar) chips?
It's got nothing to do with "competing", so much as "owning".
Don't you think GM and Ford would simply love it, if SAE ceases to exist and they can make their engine incompatible with 10w-40 and make you buy proprietary oils from the dealer? Or tire rims become non-standard and you need to buy tires only from Toyota, not from NTB?
The standard interchangeable components and consumables in cars are achieved after a long period of struggle stretching over many decades. Now that most of the population is immunized and polio is something they read about in history books, people become lassie-faire with vaccination.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
'Furthermore the GPU design that replaces Imagination's designs will be, according to Imagination, "a separate, independent graphics design."'
Imagination does not acknowledge Apples claims, it actual fact Imagination says the exact opposite.
"Apple has not presented any evidence to substantiate its assertion that it will no longer require Imagination’s technology, without violating Imagination’s patents, intellectual property and confidential information"
Apple were also one time in talks to acquire Imagination's technology outright.
"From time to time, Apple talks with companies about potential acquisitions. We had some discussions with Imagination, but we do not plan to make an offer for the company at this time." March 2016
Apple's been advertising/looking for GPU verification engineers and IC process engineers on LinkedIn and other sites for months. If this was a "secret" it was one of the worst-kept secrets out there...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
how does that work? TRiangles are gaurenteed to be planar (3 points determine a line) quadrangles are not necessarily planar. Doesn't that screw up a lot of the interpolation and shading and such?
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
In TFA, It says:
Imagination has a significant number of GPU patents (they’ve been at this for over 20 years), so developing a GPU that doesn’t infringe on those patents would be difficult to do, especially in the mobile space. Apple couldn’t implement Imagination’s Tile Based Deferred Rendering technique, for example, which has been the heart and soul of their GPU designs.
Since patents only last for 20 years, and the first Tile based PVR was released in 1996...... Why couldn't Apple use Tile Based Deferred Rendering?
The standard interchangeable components and consumables in cars are achieved after a long period of struggle stretching over many decades. Now that most of the population is immunized and polio is something they read about in history books, people become lassie-faire with vaccination.
Your assertion relies on the component being consumable. I don't think a GPU can be considered a consumable.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Not a whole lot of logic to that one. See: The Federalist Papers
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Which GPU patents are those? You do realize that Samsung, just like Apple, licenses their mobile GPUs from others for their mobile chips right? In fact in their Exynos CPUs they've used PowerVR (the same line Apple uses) and Mail (from ARM). For some of their mobile products they don't use their own processors: Samsung uses Snapdragon processors which is 100% Qualcomm IP.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
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First rule of karma whoring: never ask about the downvotes.
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Samsung uses Snapdragon processors which is 100% Qualcomm IP.
Which is why Samsung can't just say, "Golly Qualcomm, go away we're not going to pay you anymore. We're going to build our own!"
If it turns out compatible, they'll have a hard time claiming they didn't copy it when they even used to license it!
That is the danger is the first place when you have somebody develop tech to sell to you, instead of developing it yourself. They then own the implementations you're used to using for the features you thought of!
Ultimately, Apple probably figures they'll get a better price at settlement of the suit than at the negotiation.
Which is why Samsung can't just say, "Golly Qualcomm, go away we're not going to pay you anymore. We're going to build our own!"
And how much experience has Samsung had with that? None. In their own Exynos chip, they have only designed the core for Exynos 8 and Exynos 9. Prior models used ARM standard cores.
The issue isn't just desire. Samsung doesn't have the experience or the personnel at this point to do it. They barely have the personnel to do it for CPUs much less any IP entanglements that might occur.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Rather I think the OP has narrow definitions of "beats". For some people it's about one or two specs that one thing "beats" another. I can guarantee that Apple has never used the mobile GPU that puts out the most pixels at the fastest clock speed. Apple has used mobile GPUs that balance numerous factors like power and efficiency.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Let's just hope they don't do with GPU what they did in CPU. I'm going to be pissed if Apple GPUs are as dominant as their CPUs are.
Look guys- we're watching a dying company. Sure they have a lot of business at the moment. But their tech is limited and specialized. They killed their desktop business. They are losing ground in the tablet and phone market.
Investing in your own GPU is not the thing to do under those conditions. And only for mobile or just Apple products? Even with an assumption that Apple can produce something competitive it just doesn't make sense.
This smells a lot like Newton, John Sculley's pet project. Or CyberDog. Or the System Administrator's Tool Kit. Or the E-mate. Or the AV series of Macs. All products that were cool as heck- with no place in the market.
History repeats itself again.
Another consultant who stuck it out.
"We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx..."
It's not like Apple really cares about Macs anymore.
Agreed - Apple's latests offerings show that they are clearly lacking imagination and all this announcement does is make that official.
And some fanbois only concentrate on one or two things for "better". It would be a shame if the A10 processor beat out the Snapdragon 820 in multiple performance tests.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Hey, 820? Why compare with a more than a year old Soc? Compare it to the 835 then, moron and see a very diferent story. Anyway, se are talking about graphics fanboi. On a phone half the price of a iPhone 7.
You really are a fanboi arent you? The 835 has not been released yet. Therefore it is rather impossible for someone December 2016 to do a head to head comparison. And when someone compares apples to apples comparison of two processors which you can get today and that destroys your assertion, your first instinct it to get defensive.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Read the news and check you facts. The 835 is on the market. The already released S8 uses it in some countries, so you can buy phones using the SoC right now.
You can pre-order the S8 in some markets. That doesn't mean you can get one today. Certainly in the US, the release date is April 21, 2017. Again it's somewhat impossible for someone in December 2016 to do comparison of two phones where one isn't released until months later.
Also according to you, then you are comparing a year-old processor (A10) vs a new processor (Snapdragon 835). How fair is that comparison? Or do always intend your comparisons to be unfair and dishonest.
Anyway, back to the original discussion: iPhone7 graphics are lacking and there's nothing you can do to change it... you, like a good FANBOI tried to justify with some power efficiency bullshit... which is totally bogus since other SoCs manage it very well.
So many strawman arguments. First I never said NO OTHER manufacturer manages their SoCs. I said that Apple has to balance their graphics performance with efficiency for THEIR phone. Like most of Apple's history, they may not use the most robust GPU but opt for a more balanced approach when it comes to overall performance and efficiency. In fact I even said above.
That's why in some tests, an iPhone will beat out another phone. In some tests, the iPhone will lose. For most consumers, they really don't care. Most modern smart phones suit their needs for the most part whether it's a Samsung or an iPhone. Only Fanbois like you get butt hurt at the mention that something you think sucks, doesn't suck.
I'm sorry your overpriced hardware isn't perfect like you'd like it to be. Don't be mad at me for it! Stop worshiping the brand, please.
Samsung Galaxy S8 64GB US pricing (Verizon): $720 + tax
iPhone 7 32GB US pricing: $649, 128GB $749
Why must you lie so much? iPhone pricing is about the same as you'd pay for a Galaxy. Certainly you can buy cheaper Android phone but you can also buy more expensive ones.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
And how much experience has Samsung had with that? None. In their own Exynos chip, they have only designed the core for Exynos 8 and Exynos 9. Prior models used ARM standard cores.
So in your story, Samsung doesn't have experience with chip design because after using other people's designs for a long time, they designed their own, and then the next model they again designed their own. So, you're admitting that you know that they do in fact have experience at doing the thing you claim they are too inexperienced to do.
I'm not going to provide any other analysis of what you said, because you simply contradict yourself in a way that shows you don't even understand what you said. So of course it is unlikely that you even understood what I said.
So in your story, Samsung doesn't have experience with chip design because after using other people's designs for a long time, they designed their own, and then the next model they again designed their own. So, you're admitting that you know that they do in fact have experience at doing the thing you claim they are too inexperienced to do.
Um no. Samsung has only been doing their own architecture ARM CPU work only for the last two version of Exynos. Previously they only used standard ARM cores. My assertion is they have ZERO experience with GPU designs. None. They have yet to design a single GPU even in Exynos because they still use other GPUs from other manufacturers.
I'm not going to provide any other analysis of what you said, because you simply contradict yourself in a way that shows you don't even understand what you said. So of course it is unlikely that you even understood what I said.
I'm going to let you research the history of Samsung design and how a GPU is not a CPU.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.