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US Dismantles Forensic Science Commission (washingtonpost.com)
hondo77 writes a report via Washington Post: Thought the Trump Administration's war on science was just about climate change? Think again. "Attorney General Jeff Sessions will end a Justice Department partnership with independent scientists to raise forensic science standards and has suspended an expanded review of FBI testimony across several techniques that have come under question, saying a new strategy will be set by an in-house team of law enforcement advisers," reports Washington Post. The National Commission on Forensic Science, "jointly led by Justice and the Commerce Department's National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has prompted several changes," including "new accrediting and ethical codes for forensic labs and practitioners" and the FBI abandoning "its four-decade-long practice of tracing bullets to a specific manufacturer's batch through chemical analyses after its method were scientifically debunked." "The availability of prompt and accurate forensic science analysis to our law enforcement officers and prosecutors is critical to integrity in law enforcement, reducing violent crime, and increasing public safety," Sessions said in the statement. "We applaud the professionalism of the National Commission on Forensic Science and look forward to building on the contributions it has made in this crucial field."
Surprising nobody, one of Donald Trump's many Russian controlled handlers is under investigation as an agent of Russia.
Trump's advisor is a Russian secret agent.
Is everyone still too stupid and complacent to see that Russia's KGB controls our federal government through its agent Donald Trump.
Open your fucking eyes, morons.
I declare this news as fake, on the grounds it's too absurd to be real. Please let this be fake.
Trying to up business for private prison corporation cronies? ( PPCC )
I'm ashamed to be an American.
Fuck Scientists.
Burn every scientist at the stake.
"Forensics" is another term for *spying* on people and invading their privacy.
Good riddance.
How can we even speak of reform, when the hands of every judge in the Empire are soaked and dripping with blood?
and two-bit crooked real estate salesmen are now running the US government.
Since when was climate change "science"? Last I check it was only a consensuses, which means it is not science.
Would need to read more about the subject since Washington post don't wrote articles unbiased. It must have some problems if Trump is dismantling it.
IN unrelated news the FBI formed a Divination unit that applies forensic goat entrails reading to predict future crimes. Jeff sessions was quoted as saying, "Liberal Judges have long prevented the proven science of witch drowning as a standard of guilt. Everyone knows Witches float, it's so simple to prevent occult crimes. Now we can."
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Statement from National District Attorney Association
http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/NDAA%20Statement%20on%20Expiration%20of%20National%20Commission%20on%20Forensic%20Science.pdf
The Commission lacked adequate representation from the state and local practitioner community,
was dominated by the defense community, and failed to produce work products of significance for
the forensic science community. Very few of the recommendations from the Commission were
adopted and signed by the previous Attorney General during its existence. Those that were signed,
such as universal accreditation, had already begun to develop organically within the forensic science
community as accepted best practices, thus replicating ongoing work and wasting taxpayer dollars.
Cutting back on government spending - even for things that someone might like or find appropriate - is hardly a "war".
Quit it.
This does relate to the old slogan of the website as quoted above. However, as usual, most of the comments (including ACs) are taking the side of Trump here, "fuck science", and so on.
Most of you likely aren't "nerds", unless you think sitting in your room or parents basement posting pro Trump comments all day and attacking everyone else qualifies as you as a "nerd".
I wonder which show they watched before reaching this conclusion. I bet it's the latter.
No this is just some biased news reporting as usual.
From the article:
In a statement Monday, Sessions said he would not renew the National Commission on Forensic Science, a roughly 30-member advisory panel of scientists, judges, crime lab leaders, prosecutors and defense lawyers chartered by the Obama administration in 2013.
First, they do not "dismantle" the commission, they just don't renew its mandate. Second, it was a mostly idle project launched 4 years ago by Obama, it's not a long-standing institution of law enforcement.
lucm, indeed.
From asspained snowflakes. Nothing to see here...move on.
Um, the FBI for one.
The DEA, for two.
"Standards" are perilously close to "ethics", and both of those make these guys melt like water on a wicked witch
I think all this would be a lesson not only for the US and the RF, but for the whole humanity that a regime change from outside is not a good thing. No matter how much one dislikes an incumbent, a nation should be let to have its own history, revolutions, etc.
Now the free market can do it 1000 times better on its own without a subsidized competitor.
Sessions isn't "dismantling" anything. The commission was created in 2013 and was supposed to do its job by 2017. It apparently has done that, Sessions has thanked them. The Trump administration is now deciding what to do next.
Calling this "ordering the Justice Dept. to end forensic science commission" or "dismantling forensic science commission", as if Trump or Sessions had taken extraordinary steps to kill the commission, is tendentious, politically motivated b.s. that reflects badly on the Washington Post and the submitter.
And Stone coordinating his campaign with hacker Guccifer, Manasfort? Millions of dollars putting Putin agents in power in democracies.
Even Kushner sneaked the Russian ambassador into Trump tower, shortly followed by a director of VneshEconomBank (a Putin controlled bank previously known for bailing out Putin projects and funding legal defenses of Russian spies)... but it's all innocent, VneshEconomBank says it was just a commercial meeting regarding Kushners property interests (which would be an illegal violation of sanctions). Kushner says its totally innocent meeting with VneshEconomBank in his role as temporary acting State Dept, making connections to Putin. (i.e. he's totally aware the bank is a Putin front!). Neither story adds up.
Perhaps you think I'm kidding, but no, this is sadly true:
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/27/politics/kushner-meeting-russian-banker-tied-to-putin/index.html
Flynn? Secret meetings with Russian ambassadors, was to have fulfilled Putin's promise to Erdogan on extraditing a US cleric to Turkey. The go-to man for the smaller deals.
But I think you're rather missing the bigger picture. Look at their recent earnings declarations. Kushner is claimed to have assets of 750 million, yet income of 100k. That doesn't make sense. When I dig through their public accounts none of the numbers add up. They are 2 orders of magnitude out of best estimates. Trump still hasn't release his tax returns, only leaking a two page sheet from 2005, which was probably the last time the numbers looks plausible.
So Trump is a conman, and he'll take apart forensics, he'll take apart accounting standards bodies, he'll undermine ethics groups. It's not that Trump is some string puppet of Putin's. It's more that he's a crook, and Putin is a fellow crook, and there is a mutual interest.
Look at the raid in Syria. Russian was pre-informed about it, they in turn warned Assad, all the fighter jets were removed, there were two helicopters placed in the center of the runways for the photo-op, but those helicopters aren't normally parked blocking a runway! Trump blows up some tarmac and some concrete. Who the fuck would do that? Why would you do that? You know there will be zero useful assets to destroy if you inform Putin, yet you inform Putin.
On the plus side, illegal immigration is at the lowest it's been in 2 decades, the economy is up by 20%, and we made a strong-but-measured move in Syria which has garnered praise from many world leaders.
It's fine to carp about every little thing the president does, but no one really expects the president to please everyone all the time. I'm against a fair number of the littl'er policy changes (such as abortion policy), but I also realize that several small issues can be compensated by one or two really big issues.
For example, our strong but limited response on Syria will have a positive effect on relations and negotiations with Iran, N. Korea, and China. Limiting illegal immigration should eventually bubble up into more jobs, and at the same time we're concentrating on illegal-immigrant violent criminals and ignoring illegal immigrant students.
I'm happy to trade some of the smaller problems for bigger ones.
I think the US is in a good place right now.
(And then there's the very real question of whether this is fake news, which has been patently true for about 80% of the shocking(!) revelations posted on this site. How long has this commission been around, and have they done anything of any note? Or is it just another example of government waste?)
Is that the go to talking point being spread around The Donald? I see the exact same comment made elsewhere in this thread.
I see. When two people make similar comments that do not support your preconceived opinion, it's a conspiracy.
lucm, indeed.
Because TRUMP is clearly kgb operative, we need to take precaustions, this war against science is the tell tale sign of Conservatives misstepping into a realm in which they should not be. Instead we should impeach TRUMP and allow Hillary to take back over the governmenty which was handed to the fat sleeze ball by Putin & kgb OPERATIVES.
From the article:
The commission jointly led by Justice and the Commerce Department's National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has prompted several changes.
You:
mostly idle
Your bias is showing.
Those 30 people have made a total of 20 recommendations since 2013. Here's the latest one:
The Attorney General should direct the Bureau of Justice Statistics to create a proposal for the development of a nationally representative survey to determine forensic capabilities for those who write reports and offer testimony within federal, state and local law-enforcement agencies and for medical examiner and coroner offices. The survey instrument should be developed in collaboration with the relevant stakeholders organizations by the next commission meeting.
1/2 page.
You want more? Here's the 2nd latest recommendation, made ONE YEAR before.
Proficiency testing is required of all accredited FSSPs. As a recognized quality control tool, it is the view of the Commission that proficiency testing should also be implemented by nonaccredited FSSPs in disciplines where proficiency tests are available from external organizations.
That's it. The entire corpus of that immensely valuable recommendation spans 7 pages; of those 7 pages, 4 are an appendix describing terms like "Accreditation".
That commission is a big joke. See, there's a webcast of their meetings.
https://www.nist.gov/topics/fo...
Huge waste of time.
lucm, indeed.
Could you provide some sources for these numbers you're throwing around? Seems a little soon for this administration to have had much of an effect, let alone provide enough time for statistical trends to have emerged and analyzed.
Happy to oblige! Look here and here.
I'm not pro-law enforcement at all. The point here is that calling the end of this commission "war on science" is, at best. dishonest.
lucm, indeed.
Russia was warned ahead of time about the raid, and they support Assad, which is why there were no expensive Syrian military assets in the airport. No missile systems, no fighters, no bombers, just tarmac and concrete struck. Go Google "Pentagon Spokesman Captain Jeff Davis"'s video.
http://www.imagesatintl.com/insights/
So yeh, they just flew the aircraft back to the field, filled them up with tankers and ran another bombing raid.
US blew up $50k of concrete with $50 million in missiles.
Look at the hanger photo, the hanger is intact, it punch a small hole in the wall. Cruise missiles are for hitting planes and missiles and military munitions, not concrete and tarmac.
http://www.imagesatintl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Hangars-1.png
Mama does not want justice. She wants QUIET.
Put another way--the courts need only dispense sufficient justice that most of us STFU and GBTW.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
Like most science opponents, your argument is that the research takes too long to bear fruit. Science doesn't happen overnight.
That's a commission. They don't do research.
lucm, indeed.
The words "before its term ends April 23".
"set to expire"
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/ru... (April 10, 2017) "The department will instead appoint an in-house adviser and create an internal committee to study improvements to forensic analysis, Sessions said."
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
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...said no one with half a brain. Seriously, you should be required to pass an exam before you can legally revoke funding or change policies. That way, no politician can claim ignorance when hell breaks loose. Your typical political, science hating, Conservative: "Gawd got me here, and all I need is Jesus to whisper into my ear to affirm what Facebook friends, spam, advertisements and Twitter tell me and my church congregation that the Liberals, with their Satanic Latin "ology" slang (God speaks only country twangy KJV English), that they are out to ruin His great nationnnnnahh! His word is to be taken literally up until it's no longer convieniant. New Testament, new rules, new Covenant, except for Gays. And we all know statistics are tools of the Devilah! Your feelings never lie because the heart is where Gawd lives." ~The End~ Fun fact: early humans believed that your thoughts came from your heart before they knew what the brain was actually for, hence the huge amount of its ideological references to, including Christianity. But, that's a fact backed by history, psychology, and medical science and not ignorant (there's a difference between ignorance and stupidity) gut feelings, so I guess if it doesn't meet the 50+ politician criteria. Therefore, I'm wrong. We are all just no match for all those science classes Republican businessmen and preachers have to take.
No. "US" didn't. Trump and his incompetent embarrassment of an administration did. Just one more step on their way to becoming cartoon villains. Don't put this on the more than half of us that never wanted him or his minions anywhere near the levers of power.
Can we drop the bullshit hyperbole already? It is not a war on science. It is a war on people pretending to be scientists engaging in a quid pro quo with government activists to get the desired data and preconceived results they want in exchange for billions of dollars in taxpayer money.
You know, it is physically possible to *find out* what a program *actually does*.
In this case your post is ironic because we're talking about a program which debunks faith in stuff just because it's called "science".
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Yes, when you're $19 trillion in debt, you have to forego some luxury items.
-Styopa
For a site specializing in STEM, there sure is a lot of partisan bullshit being posted.
To get rid of this editor?
I tend to rant.
politically motivated b.s. that reflects badly on the Washington Post
Washington Post lost all credibility a long time ago. It and Business Insider (run by a convicted scammer) serve only to air Jeff Bezos' political agenda.
They were constantly abusing the powers and tools they have. Violating constitutional rights is NEVER okay, and giving data to 3rd parties is never okay..
There are some parts of forensics that are scientific, but forensic analysts don't practice science; they practice pseudo-scientific interpretation in favor of prosecutors, even when defense attorneys hire the "independent" forensic analyst to examine something. Part of my experience of being dragged through the mud for possession of child pornography was my public defender having the hard drive sent to an "independent" forensic analyst. For a kiddie porn case, you'd have to consider a thorough computer forensics analysis to be critical to placing the person behind the keyboard and attaching the presence of files to that person's actions.
Instead, this person (who was not opening JPEGs in case they had kiddie porn inside, by the way!) did everything they could to spin the hard drive contents to look bad. I don't want to go into too much detail for time and privacy reasons, but even ignoring the numerous obviously wrong conclusions drawn from the metadata, the most telling thing in the "report" was the following absurd statement regarding files that had modification times SEVERAL MONTHS AFTER EQUIPMENT SEIZURE:
"These file dates are an anomaly of the installation."
What the FUCK does that even mean?! SERIOUSLY?! An "anomaly." What kind of anomaly? What's your explanation for the "anomaly" Mr. Computer Forensic Investigator Genius Dude? The explanation is really fucking simple, but the prosecutor would blacklist you if you spelled it out, right? Yeah, the computer was booted up and used by someone months after seizure, irrevocably tainting the evidence, and someone forgot to reset the clock to hide it. But hey, it's not like you can change file dates or anything. Of course, this being a kiddie porn case and the conviction rate for cases that aren't dropped, plea bargained, or dismissed being 100% (I did some statistical research, this is not a random figure, this is a fact, you can never win a child sex related case if it goes to jury trial) there was no way that such a pesky fact would ever matter, but a well-crafted pile of provably false interpretations of metadata helped to put an extra can of nails in the coffin.
Fuck "forensic science." I spent over a decade on a shit-list I didn't even belong on and have all the permanent social damage that a lifelong felony record brings about because of the lying sacks of shit that conduct so-called "forensic science." Take all their goddamn money away. They're all sniveling bitches of the prosecutors in the end, and the vast majority of prosecutors are some of the worst people in existence. May they forever suffer a plague of tiny rocks in their shoes that don't ever seem to fall out and constant mild gastrointestinal distress.
Glad to see it. Half of this is just justification for locking up those we dislike. Glad to see it go.
NATIONAL DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ASSOCIATION
Date: April 10, 2017
National District Attorneys Association Applauds Expiration of National Commission on Forensic Science
ARLINGTON, Virginia – The National District Attorneys Association (NDAA)
supports the announcement this morning by United States Attorney General
Jeff Sessions that he will not renew the charter for the National
Commission on Forensic Science, allowing the Commission to officially
expire. NDAA also appreciates the creation of a Subcommittee on
Forensics as part of the Attorney General’s Task Force on Crime
Reduction and Public Safety.
The Commission lacked adequate representation from the state and local
practitioner community, was dominated by the defense community,
and failed to produce work products of significance for the forensic
science community. Very few of the recommendations from the Commission
were adopted and signed by the previous Attorney General during its
existence. Those that were signed, such as universal accreditation, had
already begun to develop organically within the forensic science
community as accepted best practices, thus replicating ongoing work and
wasting taxpayer dollars.
Now more than ever, an Office of Forensic Science (OFS) under the
Department of Justice (DOJ), and in consultation with the National
Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), should be created. DOJ
has a vested interest in maintaining the overall integrity of the
criminal justice system while NIST has a role in the innovation of
forensic science.
“An Office of Forensic Science will ensure forensic science progresses
in the courtroom to not only aid in the prosecution of the guilty, but
exonerate the innocent,” said NDAA President Michael Ramos.
We can no longer afford to sit back and wait for the advancement and
support of forensic science. An OFS needs to happen now to guarantee
its effective future in the criminal justice system. NDAA agrees with
the Attorney General that the majority of forensic science in the field
is conducted by state and local crime labs, and then used by state and
local prosecutors in the courtroom. That reality must be a central focus
as we advance forensic science in the field.
The National District Attorneys Association (NDAA), www.ndaa.org, is the
oldest and largest prosecutor organization in the country, representing
2,500 elected and appointed District Attorneys across the United States,
as well as 40,000 Assistant District Attorneys.
Contact: Nelson Bunn, Director of Policy and Governmental Affairs, National District Attorneys
Association nbunn@ndaajustice.org.
Support the police. If you think that we need to provide those police accuse of being criminals with science measures to prove their innocence, you are anti-police. Police have enough forensic science to claim they are right, even if they are wrong. There is no need to push the boundaries further to show whether they are actually right. Stop being anti-police. The police have a hard enough time make stuff up to cover for their mistakes. Stop investing in science to make them have to act professional. Let's instead fund programs to blame Mexicans for things. That is more important than silly things like making sure you are locking up the right people.
The commission did nothing that people actually used. Talk about two-bit crooks, what about the people that got paid taxpayer money to do nothing worthwhile?
The people that are running the government now are adults, absent after a long departure and pissed off at the way the country has been trashed.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You're not being fired. We're downsizing, offshoring, automating, laying off, letting go, reassessing contractual obligations in light of new fiscal policies.
Good job, people! You did great! We're all done here! Forensic science is all solved and great now stand over here as security clears your desks and and hand over all your credentials.
Last fiscal year, the US Federal Government spent $1.423 trillion more than it brought in (source: US Department of Treasury). There are approximately 140 million taxpayers. This represents a DEFICIT spending $10,160 per taxpayer - spending above and beyond income. It is more than all the Federal Income tax paid! We would have to literally more than double the current Federal tax rate for all taxpayers to cover our deficit spending...
Or, we start cutting things that are outside the domain of the Federal Government, and scale back on spending. It's either increase revenue or cut spending - but it has to be done. We cannot keep blowing over $4 billion dollars a day in deficit spending (that is $29 per day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, per taxpayer).
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Seriously. Who the fuck was calling for lowered standards in forensic science?
Criminals, that's who. People guilty of criminal activity will be calling for lowered standards in any kind of evidence gathering, particularly forensic science.
Guess who's in the white house right now?
There, FTFY. See, both parties are the same in that regard. It's because in order to become a party member, you really have to be a believer that your party holds the truth.
This is an outright lie.
While you may be able to find a treasonous democrat if you look hard enough, the Democratic party (including its leadership, and its last presidential candidate) have been very loyal to the United States and have defended our democratic institutions even when it has been to their disadvantage.
This is in stark contrast to the Republican Party, especially its leadership and sitting president, who have not only shown a willingness to discredit and tear down our democratic institutions and betray our country to foreign interests, but have actually done so, numerous times, and continue to engage in that pattern of behavior today.
Equating the two as you have done is absurd, and highlights your right-wing bias in neon lights.
That is a lie. You marked me as foe last year after the primaries.
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