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Uber's 'Hell' Program Tracked and Targeted Lyft Drivers (engadget.com)

Posted by msmash on from the my-way-or-highway dept.

In its quest to ensure Lyft remains in second place, Uber reportedly ran a program that exploited a vulnerability in its rival's system. From a report: According to The Information, the ride-hailing company's covert software-based program called "Hell" spied on its staunchest competitor's drivers from 2014 to early 2016. It's called Hell, because it served as the counterpart to "God View" or "Heaven," Uber's in-company app that tracked its own drivers and passengers. Unlike God View, which was widely available to corporate employees, only top executives along with select data scientists and personnel knew about Hell. The program apparently started when Uber decided to create fake Lyft rider accounts and fooled its rival's system into thinking they were in various locations around the city. Those fake riders were positioned in a grid to give Uber the entire view of a city and all of Lyft's drivers within it. As a result, the company can see info on up to eight of its competitor's nearest drivers per fake rider.

23 of 145 comments (clear)

  1. Is anyone surprised by this? by toonces33 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Not me..

    1. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Is anyone going to be surprised by the massive lawsuit that Lyft is about to launch? Not me either.

      It does lead me to wonder, though, if Uber is actually charged with a crime (because Lord knows if some random kid did it, the FBI would be kicking his basement door in right about now...)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by redmid17 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What exactly is Lyft going to sue them for? Breach of rider contract/TOS? How is that going to be massive?

      https://www.lyft.com/terms

      Now there is some stuff in there that Uber definitely/probably violated (eg 9a, 9l). I'm not really seeing how they are directly affecting Lyft's bottom line. They see how the cars and drivers react, most likely comparing that to their own driver behavior, but that's something that I'd expect Uber to be researching anyway. Google most certainly is figuring out how people use Bing and other search engines or how people use Apple maps vs Google maps.

    3. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by pak9rabid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How about good 'ol fashioned computer fraud?

    4. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by nomadic · · Score: 2

      Most states have causes of action for unfair competition, precisely in order to capture behavior that's terrible but of which there's no specific law covering. Not sure if this would be covered, but it would be interesting to see.

    5. Re: Is anyone surprised by this? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      I remember a time not long ago when many slashdotters were in love with Uber, and it could do no wrong. Kind of like Tesla fans are now.

      America loves the underdog as long as the underdog doesn't get too successful.

    6. Re: Is anyone surprised by this? by D00MSlayer · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or becomes a giant, callous, manipulative, greedy corporation who cheats to take out their competitors..

    7. Re: Is anyone surprised by this? by TWX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the case of Uber, I don't think that it became any of those. That would imply that it didn't start out that way.

      Uber's initial popularity was boosted by their use of relatively new vehicles that had not been in private-service and by having drivers that were not already jaded to the prospect of ferrying people around all day. After all, who wants to get into an old, dirty, smelly cab driven by a jerk when they can get into a shiny new car driven by someone with a smile on their face?

      Thing is, even with age restrictions on the vehicles allowed, they're still going to get older, dirtier, smellier. Their drivers are going to get increasingly jaded both because of the constant human interaction and the apparent wage issues. Eventually from the passenger's point of view the only substantial difference will be the application for summoning a ride, and the lack of yellow or green paint with checkerboard striping.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    8. Re:Is anyone surprised by this? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What exactly is Lyft going to sue them for?

      Tortious interference? Computer Fraud and Abuse? Breach of Contract?

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    9. Re: Is anyone surprised by this? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I remember a time not long ago when many slashdotters were in love with Uber, and it could do no wrong. Kind of like Tesla fans are now.

      I've not been a fan of Uber since first hearing about them- and how they're basically Taxi's without paying the fees or having the license requirements that taxis have.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm all for competition, innovation, and lower prices, but the hidden Brit inside me hates a rule breaker. Uber has always been the rule breaker who cheats the competition by looking for loop holes. Uber is like the Patent Troll, or the off-shore shell company that dodges taxes.

      Maybe if I actually took taxis more than once a year I'd be more delighted at the cheaper competition, but Uber has always been of a bit of a bad smell with their "cheating".

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    10. Re: Is anyone surprised by this? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Your memory fails you. Slashdot has never loved Uber. Slashdot loved the fact that they ripped up taxi monopoly but hated their business practices at the same time.

      The enemy of my enemy is not my friend, but I won't heap shit on them for fighting my enemy either.

  2. is this why they never turned a profit? by known_coward_69 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Instead of working only on expanding their footprint it seems they spent most of their money on ridiculous research and paying off drivers?

  3. Fascinating names... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You can tell a lot about a company startup culture from the way they name things. Google's system for pushing software to the workstations is called "Pussy Galore". Facebook has a conference room called "WTF BBQ".

    1. Re:Fascinating names... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh come on..Surely you're not that dumb. They picked it because it was "edgy".

      "This room is named FuckYourMamaInTheButt! Don't worry about i, though, it's named after a movie reference from the 90's"

    2. Re:Fascinating names... by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You mean companies not wanting to be sexist assholes at work is why America has a problem? Perhaps you also feel constrained by the fact that you can't urinate in public.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  4. Re:Terms of service by Luthair · · Score: 2

    There are also corporate espionage laws.

  5. Re:Uber is just rotten by PoopJuggler · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ask Comcast.

  6. Re:Uber is just rotten by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ask United Airlines.

  7. Good luck asking... by Xenographic · · Score: 2

    > Ask United Airlines.

    "Your call is important to us. Please hold for the next available representative."

  8. Talk To The Drivers by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I started using these rides, I talked to the drivers about how they liked their job. All of them that had driven for both preferred working for Lyft. Universally, they said that it was easier to make more money working for Lyft. As a consequence, I only use Lyft now. From the passengers point of view there is little difference in cost.

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    1. Re:Talk To The Drivers by LVSlushdat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yup... The only time I've done a rideshare was last October when my flight was late landing and I didn't want to wake the wife up. I spent a few moments deciding on which one to install and chose Lyft, as even back then Uber was pulling weird shit.. I installed the app and created an account and had a ride home in less than 10 minutes with this really nice (and cute) recent Russian immigrant in her Nissan Altima. Got home, the app detected that we were at my destination, the app showed me the fare and would I like to leave a tip.. I left the lady a nice $5 tip for a $14 fare. Later I checked what a taxi would have cost me for the same trip... (shudder) close to $50 WITHout a tip... Yeah.. Lyft is OK with me.. FUCK Uber and their endless bullshit...

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    2. Re:Talk To The Drivers by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 2

      From the passengers point of view there is little difference in cost.

      Of course there isn't -- Lyft has to price-match to remain competitive. The real question is whether it's able to sustain its operations over the long haul while charging fares similar to Uber's yet paying drivers more.

      The tea leaves of both companies' 2016 financials confirm what should be obvious: Uber appears to be on track to lose ~$3 billion on close to $20 billion in revenue. Lyft, on the other hand, appears to have lost $600 million on $700 million in revenue. In other words, Uber spent somewhere around $1.25 for every $1 in revenue, while Lyft spent about $1.85 for every $1 in revenue.

      Eventually Lyft's investors will get tired of shoveling cash down that kind of a bottomless pit, and they'll either have to raise prices (hastening their demise) or lower driver comp (putting them on par with Uber). There is no free lunch.

  9. It's called Tortious interference, and is illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    How about good 'ol fashioned computer fraud?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference