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Uber's 'Hell' Program Tracked and Targeted Lyft Drivers (engadget.com)
In its quest to ensure Lyft remains in second place, Uber reportedly ran a program that exploited a vulnerability in its rival's system. From a report: According to The Information, the ride-hailing company's covert software-based program called "Hell" spied on its staunchest competitor's drivers from 2014 to early 2016. It's called Hell, because it served as the counterpart to "God View" or "Heaven," Uber's in-company app that tracked its own drivers and passengers. Unlike God View, which was widely available to corporate employees, only top executives along with select data scientists and personnel knew about Hell. The program apparently started when Uber decided to create fake Lyft rider accounts and fooled its rival's system into thinking they were in various locations around the city. Those fake riders were positioned in a grid to give Uber the entire view of a city and all of Lyft's drivers within it. As a result, the company can see info on up to eight of its competitor's nearest drivers per fake rider.
Not me..
Instead of working only on expanding their footprint it seems they spent most of their money on ridiculous research and paying off drivers?
You can tell a lot about a company startup culture from the way they name things. Google's system for pushing software to the workstations is called "Pussy Galore". Facebook has a conference room called "WTF BBQ".
There are also corporate espionage laws.
What I want to know is, how much horrible, antisocial, and plain illegal shit does a company have to do, before it gets shut down?
To be technical, its not the downloading that gets you in trouble, its the 'making available' that fucks you. You can download movies from direct technologies like http or ftp and the copyright cartels cant touch you. Its torrents that fuck you over by insisting you upload too.
Good-bye
Or not, because the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986 applies mainly to financial and government systems and doesn't necessarily apply to just any old computer system. Maybe Lyft could argue that they engage in interstate commerce and perform transactions in both directions (from customers and to drivers) that they are covered, but probably only the specific computers involved in that are covered. It's not clear that creating accounts that violate terms of use is Abuse.
I wonder if Uber asked a lawyer before they started the project and found some loophole to get away with it.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Every Uber I've ridden in also had a Lyft sticker in the window and vice versa. The overlap between the two groups seems sufficient that a separate app that requires strategically placing fake riders is massively redundant.
So tell me something that is actually surprising
You're OK. You're not even a dick.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Its just a steady stream of seriously questionable actions by Uber. Is it a company or a fraternity?
I've never had a bad experience with an Uber driver. Its a shame they have to work for such sh*tty organization.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
So Uber had / has a program that allows them to see publically available information on the Intertubes about their competitor? Shocked. I'm shocked.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
It sounds like Uber did more than simply use the app - it sounds like they reverse engineered the protocol and were interacting with Lyfts servers.
> Ask United Airlines.
"Your call is important to us. Please hold for the next available representative."
When I started using these rides, I talked to the drivers about how they liked their job. All of them that had driven for both preferred working for Lyft. Universally, they said that it was easier to make more money working for Lyft. As a consequence, I only use Lyft now. From the passengers point of view there is little difference in cost.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Their self driving cars did try to run people over /cough
Uber's run by a bunch of flaming assholes.
Water is also wet.
Fire burns flammable things.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
They created fake accounts to access data they had no right to access and by tying it into their own data they personally identified Lyft employees.
CFAA applies. Everyone at Uber who knew of the program and didn't report it to the authorities needs to go to jail.
Lyft may or may not have much standing regarding this, and it may not be worth pursuing for them.
The people who definitely do have standing are the ones who were definitely hurt and can likely prove it using Uber's records: the drivers who weren't driving for Lyft as well and who therefore got fewer rides and no bonuses. THOSE are the people who can go after Uber with a class-action suit attempting to get the earnings that they were denied through Uber's actions.
As for Uber vs Lyft, I suspect that there are a lot of people who choose Lyft *because* it allows tipping within the app. Because of the tipping capability Lyft also gets additional information that may not be as available to Uber: trendlines of driver quality (drivers who consistently get better tips) and some idea of how much more people are willing to pay for trips (because tippers are clearly willing to pay the fare+tip amount).
fencepost
just a little off
Uber has always been just on the edge of legality. The research let them stay ahead of that edge. There's been a dozen "It's Uber for X" businesses that shut down while only Uber & Lyft remain (I don't count Fivver since they seem to be operating mostly overseas and relying on the complexities of international jurisdiction to shield them).
Uber has been flouting labor, insurance and safety laws since day one. The real technical miracle isn't their dispatch system but the software that lets them stay on step ahead of the law and their competitors.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
At point in the recent past, I stopped being shocked at any news that comes out regarding Uber. They have tried everything except running over drivers and passengers. maybe even then, some people will not care as they are getting a cheap ride and don't have to ride in a taxi.
So tell me something that is actually surprising
What I find surprising is that as bad as Uber is, Taxis (and taxi companies) are worse, since clearly the consumer will put up with all this shit just to avoid taxis.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
How about good 'ol fashioned computer fraud?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference
Any legal action might be a tough sell. Both Uber and Lyft try to say that they are simply a bulletin board (a very modern one) that pairs riders and drivers. If you are a bulletin board, you cannot get angry at anybody coming over to look at your board and see what's going on, even if they are a competitor. It is public information after all.
I'd think tortious interference is a slam dunk, but don't forget the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. Case law is apparently mixed on this; simply creating phony accounts isn't sufficient, but there have been convictions under CFAA for obtaining information about a company's network and operations through a web server (e.g. the AT&T iPad email leak).
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Is it me, or does that sound like criminal activity?
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
In the case of Uber, their business practices are reprehensible and in many instances flat out illegal. It's just that they have managed to avoid disaster so far, but that is about to change.
Uber users are in the same situation as consumers who buy products that are made by child labor. All the see is the price, and there is a disconnect from how that price point is achieved. Not only is Uber breaking laws, they are also charging unsustainable prices to buy market share. Their house of cards can't last much longer.
Why is Snark Required?
American laws are easy to fix. Give about $5000 to each of 3 or 4 Congressmen, and $10,000 to at least one Senator, and they'll pass a law mandating that any ride-sharing company must have at least two vowels in its name.
At least among Sladotters, almost no one talks about price. Taxis are never on time, and the cleanliness of maintenance of the cars is often dubious at best.
I switched to towncars before there was uber, but my needs are narrow. But I'm onboard with "anything but a taxi".
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Now I'm really, REALLY glad they didn't offer me a position. I probably would have taken it and then I'd have had to deal with the fact that I was working for a shitbag company, famous for their complete lack of ethics or morals or decency. I would not have liked that.
So yeah, I'm glad the recruiter I worked with decided that, for whatever reason, I wasn't a good fit there. I feel like I should send him a "thank you" card.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
"The Information" is a subscription-only technology new site/service that is staffed by some of the heavy-duty technology journalists who lost their long-time traditional media jobs during the Great Recession. It tends to be on the well-connected-but-conservative side of the technology news world.
sPh
Let me see:
* Fraudulent procurement of rides with no intention to board, provoking wasted expenses on fuel and denial of opportunity to service true fare paying riders
* Possible violation of Lyft's terms of service
Question, did Uber do anything else wrong against Lyft?
Connecting to an unsecured wifi without appropriate permission isn't legal either
My PC used an establish protocol to request a connection and the access point responded with permission.
Sorted.