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Trump Administration Rolls Back Obama-Era Nutrition Standards For School Lunches (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Just a week into his position, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Sonny Perdue announced Monday a rollback of nutrition standards for school meals, previously championed by former First Lady Michelle Obama as part of a larger initiative to improve the health of America's children. Under Perdue's new rollback, schools across the country can now delay a requirement to reduce sodium levels, can serve kids fewer whole grains, and can provide one percent flavored milk in addition to flavored skim, unflavored skim, and unflavored one percent. In a news release that declared the move would "make school meals great again," Perdue said: "This announcement is the result of years of feedback from students, schools, and food service experts about the challenges they are facing in meeting the final regulations for school meals. If kids aren't eating the food, and it's ending up in the trash, they aren't getting any nutrition -- thus undermining the intent of the program." Specifically, under Obama-era nutrition rules, schools were supposed to decrease sodium from meals in three phases. For instance, 2012 school lunches had average sodium levels between roughly 1,400mg to 1,600mg, with elementary school lunches on the lower end. Federal dietary guidelines, which schools must follow, recommend kids get 1,900mg to 2,300mg or less of sodium per day (depending on age). Currently, schools have dropped down to "Target 1," which is a range of about 1,200mg to 1,400mg or less. Schools were supposed to get that down to about 900mg to 1,000mg this year ("Target 2") and then to between 600mg and 700mg by 2022 ("Final Target"). The USDA will now waive the requirement to reach Target 2 until 2020. The USDA will also grant exemptions from the current requirement for schools to serve only whole-grain-rich foods.

44 of 788 comments (clear)

  1. Low fat whole grain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To be fair, the regulations are trying to push a low fat whole grain diet, which I don't believe is actually healthy. Fat is essential for brain development, our kids definitely shouldn't be eating low fat.

    1. Re:Low fat whole grain? by lucm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      True. These "nutrition standards" are based on the same principles as the USDA food pyramid, which has been for the most part shaped by lobbyists, not nutritional experts.

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      lucm, indeed.
    2. Re: Low fat whole grain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, but the reason they are doing isn't cause they children need more fat to have healthy diet, it's cause the food industry through SNA lobbyist want give kids cheap processed foods that tend to be high in fat, sugar, additives, and sodium.

      It putting corporate profits over children.

    3. Re:Low fat whole grain? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To be fair, the regulations are trying to push a low fat whole grain diet, which I don't believe is actually healthy. Fat is essential for brain development, our kids definitely shouldn't be eating low fat.

      True. But the low sodium requirements should have been kept in place as is. That likely would have happened, if this move had been designed to favour students' health; instead, it was designed to simultaneously cut costs, boost the profits of the crap-meisters who peddle highly processed foods, and take yet another cheap shot at the previous administration. When they say this will "make school meals great again", it's pretty hard not to laugh. Where's Sinclair Lewis when we need him?

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    4. Re: Low fat whole grain? by RatPh!nk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This gets into the definition of healthy. Whole grains are universally accepted as healthy. However, while full fat might not have the cardiovascular risk that was one believed, more fat = more calories (also as I am sure you know the source of fat is pretty important) and we are not doing so great with obesity. Also pretty much everyone agrees the western diet contains to much sodium. Bottom line, heart healthy, growth health, weight healthy do not necessarily line up squarely.

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    5. Re:Low fat whole grain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Low-sodium diets also have some pretty serious problems with lack of any repeatable evidence of efficacy.

    6. Re:Low fat whole grain? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Low-sodium diets also have some pretty serious problems with lack of any repeatable evidence of efficacy.

      Indeed.

      Too little sodium --> You die
      More than the recommended sodium --> you live
      Lots more --> There is a very very weak correlation with a minute increase in blood pressure that is heavily confounded with the many things that go along with high sodium diets and is more than offset with for example walking for 10 minutes a day.

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    7. Re:Low fat whole grain? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the thing is, the kids will still get far too much fat, sodium and other 'bad' stuff in everything else they eat

      Some will. Some won't. My kids eat healthy at home. I don't appreciate the government feeding them garbage at school.

    8. Re:Low fat whole grain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Homogenization isn't done through chemicals, it's a mechanical process where milk is put through a filter at high pressure. Personally I think it's better, and it's done for taste/texture/consistency. People don't like lumps of butter in their whole milk, etc.

      Pasteurizing is done to all parts of the milk that you drink, of course. It wouldn't make sense to just make some of the milk germ-free and then mix it back together with unpasteurized portions of the milk. Also not a chemical process (heating).

      All milk is skim only in the sense that all lemonade is water. I mean I know tastes are subjective but let's be honest: skim milk is vile. And there IS more water in skim milk....it has less fat per volume, so consequently it has to have more water per volume to make up for that.

    9. Re:Low fat whole grain? by jandersen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To be fair, the regulations are trying to push a low fat whole grain diet, which I don't believe is actually healthy. Fat is essential for brain development, our kids definitely shouldn't be eating low fat.

      The US has the highest proportion of obese children of any rich nation, so lack of fat is probably not what holds back brain development in children in America. And it is not fat in gneral that is essential - it is specific, fatty acids, such as omega-3, not the saturated or hydrogenated fats that processed foods are full of. What most children in the West need more than anything is much less food of a much better quality, and outdoor activities. For Heavens' sake, there are children that die of heart attacks and strokes because of this absurd overeating epidemic that plagues the West - especially the US.

    10. Re:Low fat whole grain? by silentcoder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In my much younger years I developed an interest in cooking, I was also earning minimum wage. So I had to make sacrifices - one of which was to completely stop adding salt to my food (mostly because I couldn't afford to buy salt).

      Thing is, I came to like it - now it's nearly 20 years later, I cook with much better quality ingredients and have turned it into a craft. My wife loves my cooking. My kid loves my cooking. I cook lovely and elaborate foodie kind of meals with interesting flavor mixtures and prepared in interesting ways... and I still almost never add salt to anything I cook.

      The vast majority of fresh foods already contain more than enough salt for your health needs, you don't need to add more to be healthy. And you only think you need it for flavour because you've been overdosing on it for decades. Stop adding it, and very soon not only do you stop missing it - the food tastes BETTER without it.

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    11. Re:Low fat whole grain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Schools don't pay the medical bills. They pay for the food, and junk food is often cheaper than real food.

    12. Re:Low fat whole grain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your comment is just about the biggest load of horseshit I've ever seen on this site, and I've seen some horseshit in my days.

      A can of Morton's iodized salt or its generic equivalent, which should be more than enough for an entire year's cooking for an individual, costs less than $1 at many US supermarkets. You say you spent all your money on "fresh fruits and vegetables." Well to put that in perspective, a year's supply of salt costs about what a single apple would at most supermarkets. You also say in one of your followups that you were spending your money on wine at rock bars. A can of salt costs less than the customary tip for a single drink of alcohol at a bar. And EBT/Food Stamps (resources available to truly poor pepole) actually cover salt, unlike all those drinks of booze you threw back at the bar. Heck, if you were in such bad straits, you surely could have asked your bartender to give you (or simply taken without consequence) one of the salt shakers at the bar and had enough supply to last you for months.

      Come off it. Poverty did not "force" you to go without salt. You made a lifestyle choice to not put salt in your diet. This is perfectly fine and valid and has probably helped your health in the long run. But to claim that you somehow were forced into it by poverty is utterly laughable. It is basically the only foodstuff that everyone in the world, no matter how dire their poverty, can afford.

      So quit the humblebrag martyr BS. You are the worst kind of poseur.

    13. Re:Low fat whole grain? by jpbelang · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So do the japanese. They have lower obesity than North Americans.

      Hawaiians, however, have integrated high sugar into their diets.

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  2. Giving parents more control by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In the spirit of Saint Reagan

    Oh, be fair.

    The regulations were many, and often at odds with each other and at odds with the goals of School Nutrition Association. It was pushed by Michelle Obama with little or no input from nutrition experts or the aforementioned group, and caused so much anger with it's one-sided dictates that Michelle's "food policy czar" was asked not to speak/hand out awards at the SNA association dinner.

    School regulations are the purview of state, not federal. It's much *much* better when the local population has a say in how their kids get schooled. Common core and "no child left behind" was a disaster.

    Schools are better off managed at the local level.

    Everyone knows that.

    1. Re:Giving parents more control by Frank+Burly · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Schools are managed at the local level. Whether they are better off depends on whether or not you live in Kansas.

      Regardless, nutrition is reasonably well understood and not something for which we need 50 laboratories of ideas. Something like 0% of American kids are sodium deficient and my fingers are too fat to google what percent are obese.

      Regarding the SNA's preference not to have the "food czar" present an award and the SNA's (very related) preference for the status quo ante:

      Nineteen former SNA presidents wrote a letter of dissent and several expressed worry that the food industry was unduly influencing the association’s position, for which it was aggressively lobbying on Capitol Hill — moves that led the White House to believe that most school nutrition leaders are on its team and agree with the changes.

      http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/white-house-school-nutrition-association-108874

      But there is no denying that Trump is, as the kids say, salty.

    2. Re:Giving parents more control by skam240 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "School regulations are the purview of state, not federal. It's much *much* better when the local population has a say in how their kids get schooled"

      No it's not, that's how we ended up with the garbage they were and / or are serving now. That's literally why these steps were taken because local government wasnt doing anything. Sure, I loved nacho day when I was a kid but when I think back on the food in my school cafeteria I cant believe that they were feeding us that shit and from everything I've ever read my school's menu was normal by American standards. We have a health epidemic of childhood obesity in this country and school menus are most certainly a contributor, particularly for low income kids who are more prone to obesity and depend on free school lunches for a "proper meal". The "locals decide the menu" method has shown itself to be a complete failure.

      And for the nutrition nerds out there, I dont think the Obama era rules are perfect but they are most certainly better then what most schools were offering.

      Aaaaand I just read your Breitbart article which you apparently did not, Right there in the article:

      "Nineteen former SNA presidents wrote a letter against the waiver rider and asserted they were wary of the influence of the food industry on SNA’s position. Half of SNA’s operating budget comes from the food industry. With 55,000 members across the nation, SNA is fighting the new nutrition regulations, which include limits on sodium and orders students to have a serving of fruit or vegetables so their school is eligible for USDA reimbursement. "

      So yeah, SNA is not so creditable you hack.

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    3. Re:Giving parents more control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Because Breitbart is so news worthy. Little cuck go back to your alternative facts.

    4. Re:Giving parents more control by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Insightful

      School regulations are the purview of state, not federal. It's much *much* better when the local population has a say in how their kids get schooled. Common core and "no child left behind" was a disaster.

      Schools are better off managed at the local level.

      Everyone knows that.

      I call bullshit.

      What actually happens is that local school administrators think they're better off, because they can put more money into the football program and cut out that high-falutin' nerd crap. After all, kids just don't need that fancy electronic stuff to run the farm. It was good enough for their grandpa, good enough for their pa, and it's good enough for them.

      Yes, it's a stereotype, but all too often it holds true. Under the banners claiming "locals know best" and "parents know best", you find an army of last-generation people whose education hasn't actually progressed since the 1970s. The myths they grew up with become fact in their mind, and the priorities and politics of their small-town local life becomes the focus of a stagnated culture. Without mandates and guidance from an emotionally- and geographically-detached administration, the local schools are far more likely to base the curriculum on a local economy, effectively denying their students the skills needed to participate in a modern global society.

      I was fortunate enough to have grown up in one of the outliers. In my area, the school superintendent had been an engineer for the government, and had moved around the country before settling in my little farming town. Previously, the school had used a curriculum focused on American history, home ec, and shop class, but the new administration fought to diversify the programs. We got a new arts program, computer lab, and even (much to parents' disgust) made wood shop an elective!

      The end result was that is was possible for a student to learn more than their family's farming trade, and eventually afford to actually leave the town. The immediate effect was that there was a "lost generation", where graduates left the town, either for college or for jobs elsewhere. In the longer term, however, those students ended up being the most successful, with some of the highest-paid careers the school has ever produced.

      In comparison, the neighboring district generally held that a proper education focused on physical strength and good morals. Last I heard, a drought had devastated their local farming economy, and the district had about 85% population below the poverty line.

      A modern workforce demands a diverse skill set, and having a self-reinforcing education system eliminates opportunities for the students' skill set to widen. Schools are better off managed with input from all levels, providing students with options to make their own course through life.

      Everyone knows that.

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    5. Re:Giving parents more control by skam240 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your completely anecdotal (and probably politically bias) review of school food has been noted (and lets face it, kids love junk food and will complain about getting switched off of it). I will continue to celebrate any measure taken to help combat the childhood obesity epidemic in our country.

      If your kids were getting the same school food I was getting when I was a kid you werent doing them any favors by buying it for them. If they don't like the new stuff then maybe pack them a lunch? It's cheaper and can be healthier. It's probably what your parents did when you were a kid and is super simple to do.

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    6. Re:Giving parents more control by apoc.famine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm glad my dad, the straight D high school student, was wise enough to understand this. Yep, he pushed us kids to get a good education, and we've got 7 college degrees between 3 kids to show for it. Also the closest we live to that little town is an hour away. I'm a thousand miles away.
       
      I don't keep up with my HS classmates anymore, because nothing has changed for them in the last two decades save more kids and more poverty. They still revel in the glory days of winning touchdowns and prom parties, while I'm flying around the country on business and exploring different cities.
       
      I don't know how the town I grew up in is still there. I don't understand how it functions economically. Well, I guess I do. Families live in the same house for generations, long paid off. Hardly anyone buys new vehicles, and everyone spends their free time doing odd jobs and farming to make extra money. Dad has a big vegetable garden and beehives. Barters fish and game for favors and services. Gives Dale up the road a couple gallons of honey and ten pounds of venison and Dale drops of a dump truck of wood from the lot he's clearing, which dad cuts and splits.
       
      Not a lot of leisure time, and always one step from economic disaster. The house my great grandparents bought when they immigrated to the country has been a hole in a ground for about a decade now. (Not owned by our family in a generation.) A former classmate was renting it and burned it down. The owners didn't have it insured, and don't have any money to replace it, so it's an overgrown hole in the ground now. It's not the only one either. Steady uptick of houses falling into disrepair and trailers replacing them. Trailers with mortgages, because there wasn't enough money for maintenance on the old house.
       
      It's hard to be sad when these towns finally die, because they are literally falling down. If you don't have enough money to fix your roof, the solution isn't to get a mortgage on a trailer so you don't have to change your way of life. The solution is to retrain, reskill, and improve your quality of life. My family history is mining, machine shops, and dairy farming. My siblings and I have STEM degrees, plenty of employment options, and make very good money. Those people still trying to hang onto the past are missing out on life. I just don't get why refusal to change for the better is a thing.

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  3. Chocolate milk and pizzaboats are back! by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In other words, schools are now allowed to serve stuff that kids will actually eat again, making afternoon class teachers and any student with afterschool activities happy again.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/6/1m-kids-stop-school-lunch-due-michelle-obamas-stan/

    1. Re:Chocolate milk and pizzaboats are back! by DogDude · · Score: 5, Insightful

      By that logic, why do we teach kids things they don't want to learn? Why not just teach them Snapchat?

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    2. Re:Chocolate milk and pizzaboats are back! by skam240 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh, you have link to photos? We should feed our kids crap food because you have links to photos of small meals then?

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    3. Re:Chocolate milk and pizzaboats are back! by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This.

      You can lead a donkey to the water, but you cannot make him drink. Likewise, you can offer healthy food to kids but guess what: They don't like it and will refuse it.

      Remember when you were a kid? Remember when your parents packed you "something healthy" for the lunch break? What did you do? Eat it? Probably not. Throw it away and buy something else? More likely.

      This is pretty much what happened after the change for "healthy" food. Kids simply said "this sucks" and refused to eat it. Instead they took their money to the next burger joint. The older the kids, the more likely. And there you had exactly ZERO control over what they'd eat.

      It is far more sensible to provide a meal that they will enjoy where you still can slip in something healthy. I'd rather have a school offer grilled turkey, well seasoned on whole grain burger buns, with fresh veggies and kids eat it than them offering some bland tofu squares on leaf lettuce without any salt or taste that kids will go "meh" over and instead stuff their face with burgers and fries from the Wendy's around the corner.

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  4. Kids weren't eating the food by DatbeDank · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The unwritten tidbit here was the lunches became so bland and boring that kids stopped eating them and instead either didn't eat or brought in food. This isn't good because school lunches come from farming subsidizes and under utilized school lunch programs in low income areas mean kids aren't eating. The real solution to this is more physical education (with physical exertion).

    1. Re:Kids weren't eating the food by Opportunist · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You cannot solve the obesity problem in the country that way. What you do here is ensure that kids don't eat healthy in any way. But that's basically it.

      I was "blessed" to go to a school that did the whole "whole grain and vegetable" bullshit years before Michelle got the idea. Our parents paid a lot of money for our healthy school lunch, with the net effect that the school made a ton of money that way, knowing that only a tiny fraction of the kids would eat there at all. Because the grub was simply unbearable. You, as an adult, may understand that it's a necessity to feed your body something healthy. Most likely because you, even at the age of, say, 30, start to feel the drawbacks of stuffing your face with greasy hamburgers and you know that you pay the price of pigging out on cheese pizzas next day in the bathroom.

      Kids don't.

      All they know is that the stuff sucks, tastes like garbage and that they don't eat it. Especially if there's a burger joint just 100m down the road that gladly takes their money.

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  5. What good is healthy? by OYAHHH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the students refuse to eat it? Would it not be better for educating students if they were neither experiencing growling stomachs or suffering from food comas?

    Being on the "I'd rather starve" end of the spectrum is not desirable from a development and learning standpoint.

    Food for thought.

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    1. Re:What good is healthy? by thebullshitpatrol · · Score: 3, Insightful

      this sounds incredibly like "my kids will only eat mcdonalds".

      this is beyond retarded. if you want kids to eat a certain way, lead them to water. at the VERY LEAST it doesn't set in their minds that it's perfectly normal to eat fucking sugar-fruit, sugar-milk, and frozen food every day. that's the bare minimum net effect that I can think of. at best, a good portion of the kids in the united states will eat the lunch and wont die from a malnourishment coma.

  6. Federal Juvenile Lunch Police Stand Down by Kohath · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It was never the Federal Government's business what a school kid was eating for lunch.

    1. Re:Federal Juvenile Lunch Police Stand Down by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Perhaps it shouldn't be, but when state and local governments have proven unwilling to so much as acknowledge the problem of unhealthy school meals in most areas, it has to fall to the federal government to intervene.

  7. About time. by ancientt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've eaten with my children and the school meals are terrible. Every kid thinks their school lunch sucks, I'm no exception, but by comparison I was given haute cuisine. If it was actually healthy I could nearly forgive it, but the plans are built on junk science.

    Being happy with the results of anything coming from our current president makes my stomach churn. Nonetheless, this is a good thing.

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  8. The kids in the low income areas were eating by rsilvergun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    when you're hungry enough everything tastes good. This is mostly about cost. The healthier options cost more. This lets them cut the program and pocket the difference somewhere else. The people who did this are not good people. Don't kid yourself.

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  9. He's just the anti-Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Lets face it, Trump didn't really consider ANY of that. He wouldn't have studied any of the rules, or considered any of the science. He wouldn't have assigned a researcher to look at it.

    No, the only thing Trump did, was see it was an Obama rule and do the opposite.

    Because that is what Trump defines himself as: the opposite of Obama.

    Hence the Trump inauguration cake that copies Obamas but was sligthly bigger. The piss on the Moscow hotel bed Obama slept in. The Obamacare ill conceived replacement. The cancelling of Obama sea reserves, the removal of Obama net neutrality.

    It's not that lazy fucker Trump knows or cares about any of it. He only knows it was an Obama rule.

    He really is nothing, not even defined by himself, he's defined by whatever he's attacking. At the moment its Obama, so he's attacking everything Obama did, even if it means siding with Putin and attacking America.

    1. Re:He's just the anti-Obama by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Lets face it, Trump didn't really consider ANY of that. He wouldn't have studied any of the rules, or considered any of the science. He wouldn't have assigned a researcher to look at it.

      Let me see if I understand you.

      Even if Trump does something good, it's for bad reasons, so we should still hate him.

      Did he got elected despite all odds?

      Is he a (mostly self-made) billionaire?

      Did he raise a good family, and are his kids well-mannered and successful?

      Despite this, *everything* he does is bad, because his inner motives are evil. And despite historical evidence that this particular bill (that he axed) was roundly opposed and generated much anger from experts.

      You're perfectly comfortable reading his motives from afar, predicting what he *will* do, what he is all about, and what he thinks.

      And it's all bad. There's nothing good about any of it.

      This is what you're saying, yes?

    2. Re:He's just the anti-Obama by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Lets face it, Trump didn't really consider ANY of that. He wouldn't have studied any of the rules, or considered any of the science. He wouldn't have assigned a researcher to look at it.

      No, the only thing Trump did, was see it was an Obama rule and do the opposite.

      Because that is what Trump defines himself as: the opposite of Obama.

      This is indeed not a way a good leader would lead, but it does accidentally do some good things.

      A) Getting rid of the department of education. The net effect of the DoE has been strongly negative on schools and pupils. Dems might think it's a bad thing to do, but those with an interest in better education and knowledge of DoE shenanigans over the past few years will be happy to see it go. I'm a lefty on many issues, but this is not a right/left issue. It's a bad/good issue. The educators should call Trump's bluff and demand more federal control so he imposes more local control of schools. Then things will improve in places that are far from Kansas.

      B) The subject of this article. Low sodium, high whole grain diets are what is killing Americans. If school kids get full fat milk and properly seasoned meat, then they will be better off. Michelle Obama who is a naturally skinny person has no concept of the western metabolic disorder and its causes.

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    3. Re:He's just the anti-Obama by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      B) The subject of this article. Low sodium, high whole grain diets are what is killing Americans.

      Utter bullshit. Hardly anyone's eating, low sodium, high wholegrain diets. Mostly, it's high in sodium and high in very refined carbs.

      If school kids get full fat milk and properly seasoned meat, then they will be better off.

      And you know, vegetables.

      A) Getting rid of the department of education. The net effect of the DoE has been strongly negative on schools and pupils. Dems might think it's a bad thing to do,

      As a card-carrying liberal, as far as I can tell, the US school syllabus needs to be nuked from orbit---it's the only way to be sure. Killing the department of education won't help unless it's replaced either at the federal or state level with something better. Given the "something better" is basically going to involve paying teachers a lot more (doubly so for ones teaching in areas where they can almost always get better jobs elsewhere) and finding actual genuine subject area experts along with actual genuine teachiIf you thinng experts to figure out what to teach and how.

      But that's (a) expensive, (b) ignores the Jebus made our cows in 7 days lobby (c) ignores other lobbies and (d) involves effectively ceding power to those untrustworthy prevert commernist academic teacher types. Who knows? They'll probably fluoridate our kids or something.

      Some dems might think scrapping the dept. of education is bad, and I probably agree: if it's simply scrapped there's a risk the replacement is even worse. Beware of people very keen on getting it scrapped: many are likely to want to use the hole to push their own agenda in schools. The other problem with the department of education is it gets pushed around by congress. Scrapping it won't fix that, congress always has an agenda, so they'll simply push around whoever is left in charge.

      IOW just because it's bad doesn't mean scrapping it will help.

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    4. Re:He's just the anti-Obama by multi+io · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The piss on the Moscow hotel bed Obama slept in.

      People actually believed that fan fiction and upvoted this?

      I wouldn't have believed until a few days ago that Trump would like to talk to Kim Jong Un not because he wants to avert a war but because HE ACTUALLY ADMIRES HIM (just like he admires other strongmen like Putin, Erdogan, Duerte). But that's exactly what he does. I've always been as anti-Trump as it gets. But even I am still thinking too conventional when it comes to Trump. Too rational, too strategic. Whenever you believed Trump was doing something out of strategic consideration or rational insight, chances are you'd be proven wrong at some point. You tend to assume that Trump would make decisions like normal politicians or just normal reasonable adults do, and you tend to be proven wrong. Trump is making decisions like an eight year old, fawning over friends and hating "bad people". He can be talked into and out of things in ten minutes and he believes whatever adult he's last spoken to.

      So yeah, you'd assume he didn't do that thing in the Moscow hotel bed, because adults don't do such things. And then, you might be proven wrong.

  10. Literally everything you wrote is false by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The regulations were many, and often at odds with each other and at odds with the goals of School Nutrition Association. It was pushed by Michelle Obama with little or no input from nutrition experts or the aforementioned group,

    Literally everything you wrote is false.

    Obama worked with top experts on nutrition. These guidelines were the product of the best current science in conjunction with many in the industry itself, not politics and certainly were not arbitrary "dictates."

    The SNA originally supported the law when it was passed in 2010.

    The board has since flip-flopped to the serious consternation of many of their members.

    And the cause seems to be due to the fact that they are overwhelmingly funded by food suppliers. One of their largest donors was previously responsible for getting pizza declared a vegetable. The SNA no longer advocate for children's health, they advocate for business's profitability at the expense of children's health.

    Schools are better off managed at the local level.

    Everyone knows that.

    Everyone knows that kids need the same nutrition regardless of where they live. The law does not mandate meal choice, only nutrient content. Every school is free to follow their own direction within the guidelines.

    I swear, I don't know why anyone trusts what you write anymore. You regularly tell bald-faced lies which you then pad with misrepresentations and to top it off you cite breitbart. WTF dude? Breitbart?

  11. Obligatory Jim Gaffigan joke by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most health food gets corrupted anyway. Like the granola bar. That's been completely corrupted.

    Because you know initially some guy was like, hey kids are eating candy bars, right? All we got to do is shape granola like a candy bar, kids will eat the granola.

    And then like a week later, uh Bill, kids are not eating these granola bars.

    Well, all you got to do is put chocolate chips in the granola bar. Kids will eat the granola.

    Uh, Bill, kids are picking the chocolate chips out of the granola bar.

    All you got to do is cover it in chocolate. Get rid of the freakin' granola. I gotta tell you how to do everything?

    And now, obligatory link to Jim's website:
    http://www.jimgaffigan.com/pro...

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  12. Local population don't know better by aepervius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Local population are for spanking and corporal punishment, which we know is counterproductive through studies. Local population are "local" and thus in lower numbers and don't have the power to do a lot of studies, and thus can have hit and miss. In this precise case, I am pretty sure "low fat" is stupid, but this has nothing to do with the "state vs federal". De genere, the feds will have more power for studies and will in average know better than the state.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:Local population don't know better by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Local populations are also very inconsistent.

      If you left it up to the local populations, most of the schools in Alabama would be teaching that Jesus is coming next year, evolution is a hoax made up by nazis to justify genocide, and climate change consists of those pages the teacher carefully cut out from the textbook. And the students would all live off of pizza and pie. Made with proper lard, not that low-fat hippy stuff.

  13. I think we can agree on some basic principles by wickerprints · · Score: 4, Insightful

    School lunches should be balanced in nutrients. They should be available to any student regardless of income level. They should be fresh. And students should want to eat them, to enjoy eating them. I think these are core principles that any reasonable American can agree to.

    The problem is that this is not what school lunches are: they never have been, nor should anyone with a brain have any illusions that the Trump administration's rollback would do anything meaningful to solve the problem.

    Do you really want to know why school lunches suck? Because Americans are hypocrites. They talk about caring about education. They talk about caring about children. A balanced diet is a critical part of those priorities, yet when it comes down to the putting the money where their mouth is, nobody wants to pay to feed them real food. Oh, you will hear how parents say they want the freedom to choose what to feed their kids...but let's be brutally honest: Americans are fucking fat and they didn't get that way by making good dietary choices for themselves, did they? So if they can't stop guzzling sodas and calling frozen pizzas "dinner," what do you think their kids will eat?

    But how dare I question the inviolable rights of a parent to choose whether to give their kids cardiovascular disease and Type 2 diabetes? Because we live in the Land of the Free...free to gorge yourself on Chick-fil-A and Burger King, that is. And with the fast food industry essentially using an addiction model to sell their poison, is it any surprise that kids (and their parents) would choose to eat a high-fat, high-salt, high-sugar diet?

    Americans are hypocrites: they howl at the idea of being told by anyone else what they can and can't do, but when it's time to pay the consequences of their own poor choices--the millions of dollars spent on their cancer, diabetes, and heart disease--suddenly, it's someone else's fault, someone else's responsibility.

    At some point, you have to decide to make a stand and say, "I the taxpayer, am willing to pay more now to ensure that your kid eats right, so that I don't have to pay more later to subsidize the lifelong health consequences of the shitty lifestyle and dietary choices you made for your kids because you're too fucking stupid to be a parent." Freedom doesn't mean freedom from responsibility.

    If you doubled the school food budget and cut out all the factory farm subsidies and waste, and hired real cooks to make lunches, these kids would be eating real food. And the cost savings would be enormous. And if you have even the slightest bit of intelligence you'd know that the food industry drives these policies: their profit relies on addicting each new generation on junk food.

  14. Mostly right and completely wrong by raymorris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > Trump didn't really consider ANY of that. He wouldn't have studied any of the rules, or considered any of the science. He wouldn't have assigned a researcher to look at it.

    Pretty much right. Well he doesn't assign a specific researcher. There are two MILLION federal employees. The president doesn't assign research tasks - he doesn't even know the researchers' names. He knows the names of the department heads - a couple dozen of the millions of federal employees. What Trump did is he told all federal agencies, in one memo, "review all of the regulations that Obama made on his way out the door". Then Trump was off to deal with North Korea or the budget or health care or China or Russia or jobs or taxes or whatever. School lunch regulations are about number 5,762 on a president's priority list. So the agency head forwarded that memo "review all recent regulations" to his top management, who forwarded forwarded it to someone who deals with lunch standards. And this manager, who has never seen the president, undid some of the recent changes.

    > It's not that lazy fucker Trump knows or cares about any of it.

    Right. He's a little busy with trying to learn whose who in Chinese politics to prevent wars, find out what the federal reserve is up to trying to keep the economy afloat, have some general input on the federal budget, etc.

    > He only knows it was an Obama rule.

    He doesn't know or care if someone that Obama's wife talked to decided on skim milk or 1% or 2%. He likely doesn't know that school lunch standards were changed under Obama - those two million federal employees handle that stuff.

    What the president knows is this:
    Obama's administration made a bunch of regulations that liberals like. In the final few months, knowing they would be replaced regardless, they went a little wild. So his team of more conservative people should tell their people to have a look the changes done by Obama's people and consider doing things differently.

    That's what President Trump, or any president, knows. They don't read millions of pages of federal regulations.