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More Than Half of People Believe Using Spyware To Snoop On Family Members Is Legal, Study Finds (betanews.com)
An anonymous reader writes: A new study shows that 53 percent of people believe it's legal to install a program on a family member's phone to snoop on their activity. The survey of more than 2,000 people in the US and UK by software comparison service Comparitech.com also finds 57 percent would consider spying on their children's phone conversations and messages. [...] It is generally illegal to install an app on another person's phone without their knowledge. Though this does depend on the circumstances. "It's a legal grey area, in that the laws haven't been truly tested in this arena as of yet since the technology is relatively new, so as relevant cases move through the legal system they'll be decided on a case by case basis," says Josh King, a legal expert in privacy laws and the chief legal officer of Avvo, an online legal marketplace in the US. "Intentional infliction of emotional distress, fraud claims -- all could be implicated, depending on the circumstances. It's also possible that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act could be used to prosecute someone who installs this type of app on someone else's phone."
I'm guessing that half is the parents, and the other half - that disagrees - is the children.
Who ordered that?
If I'm paying for my kids phone I'll do whatever the hell I please with it.
Apps!
If I'm paying for the phone and the monthly bill, and the phone is registered to my name, I can install whaterver snooping software I want on it.
Not that I would, because for one if my kids want a cellphone they can work and earn enough to pay for it themselves, and two I believe that treating them like real human beings and respecting their privacy is the right thing to do.
Try it! Library of Babel
My kid's phone is mine. It's in my name, I pay for it, and no prosecutor's going to go after me for PARENTING.
it is!
Welcome to the Trumpverse!
My kids don't have the ability to sign a contract, nor do they own a phone. They are allowed to use one that I own and pay for because they are basically good kids and I love them, but should I choose to listen in on their conversations I reserve that right. Just as I have the right as account holder to track and deactivate the device should I choose. That is part of being a parent, and/or responsible guardian. Do you know where your children are now :)
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
With all that is out there lurking for children to prey upon, you can sure as hell bet that I will be monitoring MY phones that I pay for and I buy service for that I allow my minor children to use. Please point to the US law that makes this illegal because there is not one, it is not a gray area at all. Children only have a small subset of rights, and privacy from monitoring by their parents is not included. That common law goes back hundreds of years in the US and thousands of years before that in Europe.
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
If I buy phones for my kids, I sign the phone contracts, and I pay the monthly phone bills then they are *my* phones and I can install any apps I want to (or are stupid enough to). I don't have to tell my kids that I've installed any apps.
On the other hand, I would think that a fair number of kids, and a larger number of teenagers, to be more tech-savvy than their parents. These kids would most likely find the apps and disable them.
In many countries, parents spying on their underage children, their communications and their location at any time is not only fully legal, it is expected of the parents.
If you're married, it is generally presumed that things are owned jointly. So, "our" phone.
If it's a child and you are their guardian, it's generally "my phone" even if it was a gift or someone gave it to them.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
USA cellphone customer with kids here. They would not even allow my 16 year old to be named on the account. My devices in my name. Legally I have free reign to do what I like with the phone itself as long as I do not interfere with my carrier's rules.
... this is what they learned from the gov. agencies in the latest years. It's close to the Soviet Union communism: everyone spying everyone.
I'd bet most of the parents for millenials and older weren't so damn intrusive on the lives of their children. Hell, when I was a kid, most parents seemed to want you to come back or check in maybe every 4 hours at best. And now, parents want their kids in the home and heavily monitored with what they are doing. What gives?
If you're a quality parent, then you should be able to trust your kid until they give a significant reason not to trust you. Monitoring them only encourages learning better sleuthing to get around it. Teach your damn kids what you expect of them up front, enforce it and them trust them to stick to it until they don't. Not being able to trust your kid to do anything without being able to surveil their every move, is a pretty strong reflection on how weak your parenting skills really are.
For kids it's a no brainer. They don't legally possess property, and they can't legally enter into a contract with a phone provider, which means they need someone else to obtain the device and access to use it for them. As such, just because they happen to use it, doesn't mean they own it, and the owner can do with their property as they see fit.
Same goes for the computers in the house. The kids have their own computers, but I have them heavily locked down in what they can do, both at the individual host level, and the network level.
Once they come of age, I will officially transfer ownership of their devices to them and remove any restrictions or monitoring on them (provided, of course, that they obtain their own cell phone contracts).
Now, if I were to slip some spyware onto my wifes computer or phone, or my mother in law's when she visits, or that deadbeat cousin who crashes with us for a few months before he finds another job, then I'm probably in violation of doing anything to their devices. Their network traffic is still fair game though, since I own and administer the pipes they're using while in my house.
"Legal" does not even come into the picture here. Anybody that is not total scum will immediately see how utterly immoral such an action is.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
nuf said
Everything in my house is my property. I paid for it, the wife, the kids, the pets, the electronics. If I feel like bugging any of my stuff, no one can do a damn thing about it, except bring me a sandwich, beer, and lay on my lap while I watch the big sportsball game.
Patriarchal screech! REEEEE!
In all seriousness, I'll bug any damn thing I want to bug that I paid money for and is applicable with my state's laws.
What about advertisers that put spy software in apps? I say put them in prison!
American women more likely to spy on partners’ phone and internet activity
I believe this confirms the adage, "bitches be trippin'" ;)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
So many ppl here think it's ok to spy. Mind your own business!
Foolish Americans, thinking they can behave the same way as their corporate counterparts. Only in the quest for profits is one idemnified from prosecution for spying, fraud, and theft.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be-T J
Headline - "More Than Half of People Believe Using Spyware To Snoop On Family Members Is Legal, Study Finds"
Article - "Well, it might be"
But, hey, it's in our State Constitution.
Not like you care about the Rule of Law, am I right?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I'm a parent of two. Both of them are under two years of age and growing up in a world filled with predators and other malicious actors. But as much as it might mean the world to always know what they are up to or who they talked to in the name of safety it is never okay to Snoop passively like this. You change what you study, in the paraphrase of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Conditioning a child that they are always watched, at all times, and this is okay, is wrong. It is profoundly wrong.
Worse, this breach of trust of parent and their child could just make matters worse. Kids need some ability to do what they want, within reason. Any parent doing their job right, engaging with their kids, should always know when something is up. The only way to properly handle this is to state very early on, that it is an honor system to own and use these devices. If I suspect anything, they must hand them over immediately. Cold stop, no exceptions.
Excuse me sporto... Upon reflection you will observe that I own the phones my children use. I paid for them, I pay the monthlies and I signed the contract. I am legally responsible for any criminal use of them. I can install any f**king thing I want on them. I can monitor on their use of my devices if I choose to do so.
And for you SJW idiots: It is not "immoral" for parents to monitor their children. In fact we are morally and legally required to do so.
I'm not snooping on my wife, that means she must be snooping on me.
I better find the password to her laptop and confirm.
if (child.age() >= 18) return ILLEGAL;
else return LEGAL;
This has never been challenged in court (as far as I know), but I am fairly sure (and I a am not a lawyer) that the standard is going to be that if it is legal for you to see the bill, it is legal for you to tap the phone. The phone bill is a protected postal communication. It cannot be legally examined without a warrant by anyone to whom it is not addressed (once it's been delivered, anyway.. not sure about misdelivered mail). And if you can see the bill, you can see the list of all phone calls, so privacy is already breached. Can you record all the calls on the phone if the phone's bill is addressed to you? Can you do it without warning anyone who uses this phone? Well, privacy is, generally speaking, only something one can expect on their property. This remains the case even if one is not aware of this concept. If you two criminals coordinate their stories inside a police car while the cops are out of the car and the conversation is recorded, it's not a violation of their privacy even if the cops had no wiretapping warrant. The same goes for a teenager using a phone which their parents are paying for. Ignorance of their lack of certain rights is not enough for them to gain, by default, those rights.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Isn't it technically their parent's phone? I mean if someone streams pirated movies on it, it's the parents are the one that are getting in trouble. Seems pretty clear to me that for a parent to protect themselves they have to install monitoring software on devices they legally own but that their children may use from time to time.
If I'm paying for my kids phone I'll do whatever the hell I please with it.
Phones are bought.
Trust is earned.
Good luck with that shit. Legally and otherwise.
Seriously? Ever been a kid? ALL kids lie their ass off including the best most reliable ones. You would have to be mentally disabled to actually "Trust" them, or anyone for that matter.
There seems to be a lot of confusion with lots of comments.
What is deemed acceptable and legal in the USA is not the same as say, in the e.u.
In one system you might get convicted, in another,possibly not..
As the author found out himself,it was all a total waste of time and effort..
And it could all be bypassed by a kid acquiring a device that you have no knowledge of,that they leave else where when returning home because THEY don't trust YOU..
trust has to be earned by BOTH sides.
My daughter has been online since she was 13,mostly due to cost,if she has a problem or something she wants to discuss we do so, I don't pry,I've warned/educated her with what can happen online and in "real" life,she will be parting company with us again very soon to go to university,she will be expected to finance her own phone etc and I fully expect that if she has something to discuss,then she will ring me at some horrible time of morning,cos kids...
I have very lightly asked her over the years what she is up to online, we borrowbeach others devices sometimes,I know her pin etc,she knows mine and her mother's details..
I've tried the do as I do,not do as I say,idea it appears to have worked ok.
Perhaps more parents should try it.
I think the original poster to be a very suspect,creepy control freak who has risked losing any relationship he has had with his kid,but that's just my opinion..
Ban baby monitors!
Two words: Baby monitor
My children have phones, but they are not their phones. They are my phones. I paid for them, and I pay the bill. I can put whatever software I want on them with or without their knowledge or consent.
When they get jobs and buy their own phones and pay their own phone bills, then they can have an expectation of privacy. But for now, they are on no uncertain terms that those phones are borrowed and not theirs.
Disclaimer: I am a parent, I get the concerns. But there are some seriously fucked up control freaks posting here. If you can't trust your child (even a bit) then you failed as a parent long before you reached the point where you're instituting your Orwellian nightmare on your own children. Been there, done that, not doing it to my kid who I am working to impart a sense of ethical and personal responsibility to, along with requisite critical thinking skills, self respect and a very much needed ability to make his own decisions. When he's fully adult he needs to able to handle this shit himself because I could very well get wacked by a bus or have a heart attack, and I'd prefer not to leave a helpless infantilized adult wandering the streets.