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UAE To Drag Iceberg From Antarctica To Solve Water Shortage Set To Last 25 Years (express.co.uk)

schwit1 quotes a report from Daily Express: The UAE, which is among the top 10 water-scarce countries in the world, hopes to help ease the stress of a drinking water shortage by towing an iceberg from the freezing Antarctica in order to create more drinking water. The National Advisor Bureau Limited's (NABL) managing Director Abdullah Mohammad Sulaiman Al Shehi says an average iceberg contains "more than 20 billion gallons of water" which would be enough for one million people over five years. Up to four-fifths of an iceberg's mass is underwater, and due to their vast density, they would theoretically not melt in the boiling climate of the Middle Eastern coastal line. Mr Al Shehi says it could take up to a year to drag the huge body of ice up to the UAE, and the project is set to begin in 2018.

42 of 350 comments (clear)

  1. Dense by nastyphil · · Score: 5, Informative

    ".. and due to their vast density, they..."

    Uhhhh, Icebergs are *less* dense that's why they float. I think the author means mass.

    --
    Dialectician. Archology.
    1. Re:Dense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They mean the mass to surface ratio.

  2. Two Words by Dracos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Desalinization plant.

    1. Re: Two Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yep, desalinization is too practical, and too Israeli...

    2. Re:Two Words by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I did some math. Previously, I've considered similar absurd ideas, and the cost just didn't fall in their favor.

      I feel I should start with a disclaimer: It's currently a very late (or early, depending on one's perspective) hour of the evening, and my physics skill isn't what it used to be. I invite and encourage you all to review my work, and if I'm wrong, please tell me how.

      Based on the figures provided, we can work out the magnitude of the problem. The first computation is simple: Our speed will be .3m/s, to travel the (roughly) 10000 kilometers between Antarctica and the UAE in one year.

      20 billion gallons of water corresponds to roughly 80 million cubic meters of ice. Cut into a sphere for ease of transport and calculation, it would have a radius of about 300 meters, with a cross-sectional area of about 200,000 square meters. We'll ignore the air resistance of the 10% above water, which falls within the error of my rough calculations. Calculation for the force of drag is ugly*, but works out roughly to C*9*10^6 newtons. That "C" is a coefficient simplifying the effect of the iceberg's shape, ranging from 0.5 for a sphere to 2 for more troublesome shapes.

      Considering that range, the water's drag is between 4 and 20 meganewtons. A power source (tugboat, added motors, etc) will need to supply that much force just to maintain speed. If I remember my physics correctly, at 0.3m/s, that's between 2000 and 7000 horsepower.

      There are tugboats with that much power. I haven't found much information on the annual cost to operate such a beast, but one tugboat operator gives price estimates per hour. For the purposes of this discussion, we can assume that the quoted price covers the operator's expenses well enough to also cover the overhead of running such a large operation, and the benefits of scale will cover the higher costs of an ocean-going expedition. Those are some very large assumptions, but I don't have information to clarify it further.

      With those assumptions, the cost to pull an iceberg for a year is only about $20 to $100 million. That's surprisingly cheap, putting the cost of mostly-fresh water at under $0.001 per liter ($0.005 per gallon). In comparison, a desalination plant supplies water at about $0.0005 to $0.003 per liter ($0.001 to $0.01 per gallon).

      In short, it's expensive, but it's in the same ballpark as regular desalination for that much water, and if the losses due to melting and evaporation can be controlled, it might just be feasible. As noted in TFA and elsewhere, it would also be quite the spectacle, promoting yet more tourism to the area.

      * The formula I ended up with is F[drag] = C*.5*1g/cm^3*(.9*pi*(80000000 m^3/(4*pi/3))^(2/3))*(0.3m/s)^2.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    3. Re:Two Words by thegarbz · · Score: 3

      You would think a country that already has 70 of them and currently gets 96% of it's drinking supply from desalination would have considered your suggestion. Maybe, ... just maybe they have reasons to look at an alternative.

    4. Re:Two Words by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      How about cutting the ice in pieces and using regular supertankers for transport ? Seems like it would cut down on the drag, and also introduce more efficient engines. Tugboats are optimized for short powerful port manoeuvring, not long haul traffic.

    5. Re:Two Words by nospam007 · · Score: 2

      "With those assumptions, the cost to pull an iceberg for a year is only about $20 to $100 million. That's surprisingly cheap,"

      Especially if you don't have to buy the oil from Arabs if you _are_ those Arabs.

    6. Re:Two Words by MiniMike · · Score: 2

      They may be able to reduce the transport costs by moving the iceberg into a favorable ocean current, if one is available, and just letting it drift until it gets close.

    7. Re: Two Words by markdavis · · Score: 2

      He might be an idiot, but calling him a "racist" is really pushing it.

    8. Re: Two Words by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      That's why a 130lb person like me can hand pull a 21 ton canal narrow boat and why a one horse power horse can move a pair of loaded narrow boats with an all up weight of 70+ tons,the early industrial revolution in the UK depended on that capability before usable steam engines,which also took up lots of valuable load space/capability..

      Now do it in Sea State 8 or 9.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    9. Re:Two Words by vtcodger · · Score: 2

      Might want to check the currents in the Indian Ocean. Presumably they would drag the ice North a bit -- far enough to get i picked up by the counter-clockwise flowing West Australian Current, then near the coast of Africa, they will drag it North a bit to pick up the clockwise currents in Arabian Sea, and finally drag it North a bit as it drifts by on its way toward India. It's surely nowhere near that simple, but the point is that they probably don't have to drag it all the way. OTOH, there's a lot of really warm water in the equatorial Indian Ocean. I wonder how much ice you need to start with to deliver 20,000,000,000 gallons to the UAE?

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    10. Re:Two Words by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative

      You forgot to subtract the fraction of ice which would melt during that 1 year journey.

      And we're doing desalination plants wrong. Right now they're usually reverse osmosis using electric pumps to generate the pressure needed force water through the filters. This is because the electric cost of reverse osmosis is less than the electric + heating cost of distillation. Water has a very high specific heat, so it takes a lot of energy to evaporate it.

      We need to be adding desalination to power plants. Nuclear and fossil fuel power plants generate heat as a waste product. They get rid of it by heating up seawater or river water, or by evaporating water in big cooling towers. Instead of throwing that heat away, using it to distill seawater ends up being cheaper than reverse osmosis.

    11. Re:Two Words by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

      This is because the electric cost of reverse osmosis is less than the electric + heating cost of distillation. Water has a very high specific heat, so it takes a lot of energy to evaporate it.

      Hmm, I wonder what a desert environment has a lot of for free...

      I always wondered why desert cities didn't pipe water into huge desalination (distillation) plants just driven by the desert heat.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    12. Re: Two Words by careysub · · Score: 4, Informative

      I just did some googling, looking for more information about their plans and found this which is quite interesting. It puts the plan in a somewhat different light, and answers many of comments made here.

      A key reason for this iceberg towing plan is specifically local environment modification. All those desalinization plants are pumping bring into the coastal waters, and the icebergs are going to be allowed to melt in open water to counteract the increased salinity and restoring the ecological balance in those coastal waters. And through feedback effects they anticipate that is will modify the local climate, creating a cool air layer (basically an artificial inversion effect) and increasing rainfall.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    13. Re:Two Words by SirCowMan · · Score: 2

      Living in a place which actually does harvest icebergs, it's done with excavators to a barge. This would be a better route than dragging the whole thing up. You'll lose less water to melting en-route, have less resistance on the tow, can use smaller tugs, it's a lot easier to figure out the rigging, etc., etc., ultimately - lower overall OPEX. I'm also not sure an iceberg will sit up in the hot gulf for very long; northern icebergs do last years, but once they get down into the open ocean, and particularly once they cross the gulf stream, they simply don't hang around for a second season.

      Shotguns or explosives are often used though, btw, depending on size - to ensure the iceberg in question is stable enough to take apart.

      --
      !Equality through palindromes semordnilap hguorht ytilauqE!
    14. Re:Two Words by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      Let's pretend that mining engineering and stonemasonry doesn't exist, hat we don't artificially shape rock every day, and that we literally cannot be bothered to reduce drag when we push large objects through water...
      Lets pretend, you are not such an idiot as you try to display to us.
      Please calculate the amount of energy/fuel needed to drag a hull shaped ice berg from Antarctica to UAE.

      For fuck sake, the parent calculated down what the minimum energy is if you assume "an impossible" spherical shape.

      How dump can one be to make an argument about the "sphere"????

      Your turn, give us your numbers or be silent.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    15. Re:Two Words by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      As I pointed out in a raciest post years ago in another thread, people in those regions are pretty dumb.

      Dumb in a very special way:
      1) they often have very high education, e.g. Oxford or Cambridge.
      2) they are not innovative
      3) business only is done in traditional areas: tourism, banking, oil, etc.
      4) business is only done with relatives or 'friends' or 'friends' of relatives

      No one is sitting there and thinking: "oh, how could we solve this problem?".
      To make them build a solar powered desalination plant in the desert, you need to go there and "befriend" one of the Sheiks. Make him a business proposal. Explain him how it benefits him, etc. p.p.

      A typical rich Aristocrat there will simply buy a gold plated iPhone in diamond dust to show you: "I'm to dumb to know what to do with my money, but see: this is a 'one of a kind'. I payed a million so that the guy making it, makes never again such a thing"

      I could go on and go on ...

      They are intelligent in the sense that they are as intelligent as normal people are, and have an education and also knowledge and probably even phantasy like everyone else, well education top of the pop. But: they have no clue how to use that, unless it is running the old business that they inherit, oil, banks etc.

      If I was born there, I mean with my mind and knowledge, I had started 30 years ago to literally transform the arabic peninsula into a paradise. It is so damn easy and the people there are so damn dumb, it is unbelievable.

      It is probably about power ... the mighty have the power and the poor have not ... probably such simple.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    16. Re:Two Words by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      Natural gas is INXS in the oil producing parts of the middle east. It's free to the people that run desalination plants.

      If they perfect natural gas liquefaction and transport, that might change. But the oil wells produce a shitload of natural gas.

      Brine wouldn't be an issue, if they had deep oceans with strong currents, but the arabs don't, they should discharge brine into the Indian ocean.

      Capturing a huge iceberg/year could put their desalination plants out of business. Get extra tugs for the last 50 miles, _all_ of them, get that sucker up to max speed and slam it into the sand, create a bay, like in the old Pornelle books.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  3. Vast Density by chuckugly · · Score: 5, Funny

    Vast density is what the guy who wrote that craptastic article has.

  4. Wouldn't just buying water from other countries be by TheOuterLinux · · Score: 4, Funny

    Or, are we trying to solve the polar ice melting by drinking it? Get rid of the evidence! Flushing ice cubes down the toilet.

  5. Iceberg huh? by mentil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The water shortage is expected to last 25 years, and the average iceberg contains enough water for 5 years (for 1 million people). According to Google, the UAE population is currently ~9.16Million, meaning if all of the water were recovered, it would last about half a year if all water came from the iceberg. And they're planning on starting this project next year. They'd have to tow two average icebergs a year to supply everyone from it. Ok, maybe only like 10% of water will come from the iceberg, but it has to go through a water-treatment plant before it'll be used, presumably displacing capacity for processing other water that'd be run through it instead.

    Source looks like a tabloid, by the way.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re:Iceberg huh? by Harold+Halloway · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I wonder why the water shortage is expected to last 25 years? What is going to happen in 25 years to ameliorate this problem?

    2. Re:Iceberg huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      There is more detailed info here:

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/uae-icebergs-drinking-water-from-antarctica-towed-united-arab-emirates-a7715561.html

      They plan to tow multiple icebergs over the course of time and state that icebergs have microclimate effects, including increasing rainfall. As to how they will extract the water:

      "Blocks will be chipped off the iceberg above the waterline and then crushed into water, before being stored in large tanks and filtered through a water processing plant."

    3. Re:Iceberg huh? by jjon · · Score: 2

      Because they're not going to be handling the iceberg in sterile conditions, and even if they did the iceberg isn't pure water to begin with. There will be dirty boots from the people moving around on the iceberg, seagull poop, germs because germs get everywhere, seawater and whatever germs and muck are in the seawater, the odd dead fish that got frozen in the iceburg when it formed, etc. If a bit of muck gets in with the ice, that's fine, the water treatment plant will filter it out.

    4. Re:Iceberg huh? by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 2

      Yeah. They better treat that water. Nobody wants to open the tap and have a frozen mammoth come out of it.

  6. So the UAE bought Antartica and the world climate? by elcor · · Score: 2

    I didn't know it was that easy to steal a world resource.

  7. Another disaster avoided thanks to global warming by frovingslosh · · Score: 2

    Normally that hunk of ice would be frozen in place in Antarctica, but thanks to the miracle of global warming those thirsty rich Arabs will have plenty of water.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  8. Not the first time by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 5, Informative

    Australia proposed exactly this suggestion about 25 years ago.
    Then they started looking for ships powerful enough to move such a drag
    Project died.
    Surprise.

  9. Re: WTF IS UAE??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Do we need to expand UK or USA every time? No. So same shit here.

  10. Vast density? by aglider · · Score: 2

    In that case an iceberg would sink. Its density is close to that of salt water, that's why it floats! Idiot!

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
  11. Re:WTF IS UAE??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sorry, but what do you mean by 'WTF'?

  12. If you ever played video games... by Gabest · · Score: 2

    You know that more food creates more people. Then more people need more food.

  13. Why 25 years? by mentil · · Score: 4, Funny

    a ) Emergence of New Tech(tm) to solve the problem!
    b) The managing director expects to tire of playing golf in the desert within 25 years, and will reluctantly relinquish the water.
    c) After 20 years of delays in the construction of desalination plants due to graft, the corrupt ministers will retire, thus leaving only a new generation of completely honest ministers, and the plants will be finished up within 5 years.
    d) Everyone will have left the UAE due to other countries moving away from ICEs, regional strife, etc.
    e) Mandatory 25-year water shortage. Sorry, they'd LOVE to fit it into their schedule next century, but darn, it's just too FULL.
    f) Aliens. Somehow.
    g) The Rapture will happen in 25 years so it'll be moot.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  14. Re:WTF IS UAE??? by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 2, Informative

    How fucking retardedly stupid are you? You're from redneck america, aren't you?

    Funny how someone might become aggressive and full of contempt when faced with a simple mistake - I'm used to the acronym in another language since, like you, I'm not American.

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    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  15. Re: WTF IS UAE??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A country isn't some niche errata. You've also had nearly a half century to catch up. Not to mention that it's either older than you, or its birth represents news you obviously were not paying attention to.

  16. Re:Drinking water? by Deadstick · · Score: 4, Informative

    No. Only a small part of an iceberg is generated by freezing of seawater; most of the water arrives in the form of snow. Even the freezing of seawater is a natural salt-removal process involving the behavior of crystal lattices.

  17. Re:Drinking water? by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

    Nope. You're thinking of sea ice, which forms in salt water. Icebergs are formed by glacial calving or ice sheets that originate on land.

    But even sea ice is less saline than seawater, because the freezing process expels brine. But because sea ice is flat like a pancake it has a larger surface area to volume ratio.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  18. Re:Salvage I Reboot? by quantumghost · · Score: 4, Informative

    It was one of the ideas pitched to Montgomery Brewster (Richard Pryor) in the movie Brewster's Millions, execpt the guy wanted to tow it from the Arctic.

  19. Brewster's Millions by Bomarc · · Score: 2

    Someone must have watched Brewster's Millions -- where this was treated as a crackpot idea.

  20. Let me get this straight... by kenh · · Score: 2

    The National Advisor Bureau Limited's (NABL) managing Director Abdullah Mohammad Sulaiman Al Shehi says an average iceberg contains "more than 20 billion gallons of water" which would be enough for one million people over five years.

    Where do they propose to "hold" this five year supply of water? Seems like they'd need to build a really big holding tank, about a 3 billion square foot tank (there are 7.48 gallons of water in one square foot)... By my back-of-envelope, sure to be proven wrong, calculation that would mean a 7,745 foot square box, fifty feet tall to contain the 20 billion gallons.

    --
    Ken
  21. Re:Salvage I Reboot? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

    the guy wanted to tow it from the Arctic.

    Bad idea. Arctic glaciers hive off from land glaciers and are irregular in shape. As they move through warm water and melt, they can become unstable, and roll over. Antarctic glaciers tend to be flat and stable. They also tend to be much bigger. Of course the route to the Persian Gulf is much more direct as well.