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Did A Billionaire Harvest Big Data From Facebook To 'Hijack' Democracy? (theguardian.com)

Long-time Slashdot readers walterbyrd and whoever57 both submitted the same article about the mysterious data analytics company Cambridge Analytica and its activities with SCL Group, a 25-year-old military psyops company in the U.K. later bought by "secretive hedge fund billionaire" Robert Mercer. One former employee calls it "this dark, dystopian data company that gave the world Trump." Facebook was the source of the psychological insights that enabled Cambridge Analytica to target individuals. It was also the mechanism that enabled them to be delivered on a large scale. The company also (perfectly legally) bought consumer datasets -- on everything from magazine subscriptions to airline travel -- and uniquely it appended these with the psych data to voter files... Finding "persuadable" voters is key for any campaign and with its treasure trove of data, Cambridge Analytica could target people high in neuroticism, for example, with images of immigrants "swamping" the country. The key is finding emotional triggers for each individual voter. Cambridge Analytica worked on campaigns in several key states for a Republican political action committee. Its key objective, according to a memo the Observer has seen, was "voter disengagement" and "to persuade Democrat voters to stay at home"... In the U.S., the government is bound by strict laws about what data it can collect on individuals. But, for private companies anything goes.
A branch of this company reportedly also received half the campaign budgets of four pro-Brexit campaign groups, and there's some dark talk about "military-funded technology that has been harnessed by a global plutocracy...being used to sway elections in ways that people can't even see." The article notes the two firms have plied their services in Russia as well as Lithuania and the Ukraine, and suggests that "we are in the midst of a massive land grab for power by billionaires via our data. Data which is being silently amassed, harvested and stored."

68 of 452 comments (clear)

  1. Just the beginning by volodymyrbiryuk · · Score: 5, Informative

    and it won't stop as long as these "persuadable" voters make their decisions based on facebook posts.

    --
    sudo rm -r -f --no-preserve-root /
    1. Re:Just the beginning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or 30+ years of political experience, in-depth exposure to and familiarity with US law, experience with international relations, military operations, and other required skills. Instead, this campaign let Bozo get elected because he was orange and talked down to women and treated them as objects. You're 1/2 already, but still no Trump or Putin.

    2. Re:Just the beginning by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      That's not the problem. The problem is that a company like Facebook knows:
      • Roughly how old you are (at least enough to tell whether you're of voting age)
      • Where you live (roughly if it has to guess from IP addresses, precisely, if you've ever bought anything from a company that shares data with Facebook).
      • What news articles you read (what issues are important to you?)
      • What news articles you share (what are your opinions on the issues that are important to you?)

      This is enough that they can identify what ads to show you to influence your opinion (Candidate X strongly supports issue Y), but more importantly they can share this info with canvassers who can target the undecided votes in a constituency and knock on their doors and say 'have you thought about [issue that we know is your number one priority], are you aware that our candidate believes [exactly what you believe]?'.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Just the beginning by gweihir · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed. The Brexit and Trump are the most stupid things voters did recently, but they are not unique. The vulnerability here are voters without a clue about reality. That one cannot easily be fixed, but throwing the staff and financiers of such companies in jail would be a start.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    4. Re:Just the beginning by Kiuas · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is enough that they can identify what ads to show you to influence your opinion (Candidate X strongly supports issue Y), but more importantly they can share this info with canvassers who can target the undecided votes in a constituency and knock on their doors and say 'have you thought about [issue that we know is your number one priority], are you aware that our candidate believes [exactly what you believe]?

      Yup. And this isn't even the worst of it, they can also do the opposite and create targeted attack ads. "Did you know the other candidate is doing [thing that you're strongly opposed to]?" And it doesn't even need to be true because these can be masked by creating blogs on 'alternative media' and conspiracy sites with no official link to the campaign. In other words. this sort of targeting allows targeted deception of the voterbase with little to no actual consequences.

      --
      "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
    5. Re:Just the beginning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > voters make their decisions based on facebook posts

      As opposed to what? The paranoid ravings of journalists who see some big conspiracy behind everyone they disagree with?

      Every month they come up with some other bullshit: fake news, bots, russians, alt right, Facebook posts, some billionaire, etc. These nutjobs whipped themselves into a mass hysteria because people dare oppose their views.

    6. Re:Just the beginning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The vulnerability here are voters without a clue about reality. That one cannot easily be fixed, but throwing the staff and financiers of such companies in jail would be a start.

      Does that include companies like The Guardian too? They're one of the biggest culprits when it comes to trying to influence clueless voters with their version of reality. Hell, these demagogues are still peddling the "Pepe is racist hate speech" nonsense, on their frontpage no less.

    7. Re:Just the beginning by loonycyborg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Both Brexit and Trump are examples of votes where there were designated "right" solution and designated "wrong" solution. If the "wrong" decision is objectively wrong then there's no need to put it into the ballots in the first place. So any vote that have only one designated right option is not vote at all, and shouldn't have happened in the first place. So you may consider that people chose "wrong" option as protest against this false democracy. If people's votes don't matter then there's no way they could make a stupid vote, or any meaningful vote at all beside a vote of non-confidence.

    8. Re: Just the beginning by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      Trumps small handwringing is even funnier! :^)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    9. Re:Just the beginning by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful

      30+ years of political experience also means 30+ years of being exposed to corruption and becoming a stagnant and stale piece in the political field.

      The latest US presidential election was a lose-lose situation. Overall the election highlights that the US election system has become pretty stale. A transit to the election pattern that France uses would be a step forward. But that would hurt both the Democrats and the Republicans.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    10. Re:Just the beginning by Tranzistors · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That must have been the best part of 20 minutes when I could see ads this century

      You mean overt ads. Ads that are integrated into the content are not skipable. And we are not even talking about positive feedback loops in curated feeds.

    11. Re:Just the beginning by jarle.aase · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If we assert that human brains are nothing more than complex state machines with lots of individual properties and variations - then it's obvious that if someone have the data and algorithms to predict how to alter the current state of individuals into a more desired state - and the infrastructure to deliver state-altering stimuli, then that's exactly what they will do. That's a predictable move. To say that those who do this is evil or saints is just a matter of perspective about the desired outcome.

    12. Re:Just the beginning by dbIII · · Score: 2
      There's a long list of reasons why they should be ignored especially now.
      The main one would be that none of those contributed much to her loss. She failed to get the attention of what is supposed to be the Democrat "core" demographic, average people with average jobs, and put a focus on special cases instead. Most Americans appears to think so little of their country to bother to go out and vote so complacency about the sort of people that always vote Democrat was fatal. Trump wasn't complacent about the people who always vote Republican and it appears that they did bother to turn up and vote instead of staying home.

      I can't imagine why she lost the election it must be "the Russians"

      Even though that may not have had much of an impact do you really think that sort of thing should be encouraged? There's a disturbing amount of Putin loving going on from people who should know better and would be called traitors in another situation.

    13. Re:Just the beginning by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      30+ years of being exposed to corruption

      I still find it incredibly funny that people think anybody at all in US politics is less corrupt than a casino owning property developer. Atlantic City is such a bastion of law and order after all.

    14. Re:Just the beginning by mi · · Score: 2

      As opposite to newspaper articles?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    15. Re:Just the beginning by mi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or 30+ years of political experience, in-depth exposure to and familiarity with US law, experience with international relations, military operations, and other required skills.

      So you voted for McCain, not Obama, right?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    16. Re: Just the beginning by Trondheim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You voted for Trump because you identify with his white nationalism and you blindly hate the left. You feel like you're losing all the entitlements and benefits you had as a white male and you blame it on women and minorities....

      As a white male, this is the funniest thing I've read all day! In all seriousness, though, THIS is the reason why Trump won. Average people who go to work every day, spend time with the family, and try to be involved in their communities are tired of being labeled, called names, told they're meanies, etc. when they don't agree with mouth-foaming liberals. Liberals have nobody to blame but yourselves for Trump.

    17. Re:Just the beginning by blahplusplus · · Score: 2

      "So. People are stupid if they disagree with you?"

      You make it sound like its not complicated, it is VERY complicated because science is discovering people are NOT authorities on what they do and don't know about themselves and the errors in their own views and reasoning. See the science:

      On reason

    18. Re:Just the beginning by kilfarsnar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The butthurt is strong in this one!

      If the Horrendous Harridan was so fucking competent, why'd she run such an utter train-wreck of a campaign?

      Hillary! LOST!!! BWAAA HAAA HAA!

      So, tell me, are you part of what is described in the summary and articles? I have noticed that since shortly before the election, all of the message boards I participate in have been swarmed with right-wing trolls. And I do mean all of them. The vast majority are just like you; hurling stupid insults and trying to get under people's skin and provoke an emotional response. Either Trump's supporters just all decided to get active online at the same time, or there is a coordinated effort going on. Knowing what I do about social manipulation, I suspect the latter.

      So are you one of them? Do you get paid for this? Are you merely a computer program? These are the questions we need to ask, at least to ourselves, when reading comment sections and other social media. Well funded organizations are working to manipulate and influence what we think, what our values are and how we view the world. Let's at least keep an eye out for it.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    19. Re: Just the beginning by moehoward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My 2 cents on why I voted for Trump as a white male, middle-class, technology-employed, highly-educated (CS degree and 2 Masters) guy.

      1) Taxes - As someone fairly educated on economics, Clinton had zero tax/economic policy. I wish she did, so I could compare. I easily could see myself voting for Clinton, despite her personal failings. But, Trump campaigned on a reasonable corporate tax plan that I see as key to growth.

      2) Education - As a father of 2 kids who went through (or finishing) a public education in a wealthy suburb, I was horrified at Common Core and other federally mandated (dept of ed) baloney. My gosh. Clinton had really no stand here (other than free community college), while Trump was clearly against central federal involvement to the level that we had achieved over the previous 16 years.

      3) Illegal immigration - Yes, I took all those many hours and tons of effort to actually type the word "illegal" in front of the word "immigration". Amazing how this issue is talked about as the "immigration" issue, as if it is so freaking difficult to put the word "illegal" in front of the word. I have illegals living in a rental next door to me. It is a revolving door of tenants, but the drug dealing, uninsured driving, drug use, and other bad behavior makes this issue VERY local for me. All politics are local and I ALWAYS will vote in my own self interest. My local police behave in sanctuary city mode (even though we are not), and refuse to turn these folks over to ICE after the continuous strings of arrests/traffic stops. Clinton framed this issue as nothing more than "Trump is against immigrants." Why couldn't she just propose a comprehensive low-wage immigrant worker program? I mean, that is what the country ultimately needs. I would have voted for her if she had such a plan. She did not.

      4) Open source - Well, I mean "open". Trump talked to the press and anyone who would listen. Clinton gave canned speeches to small groups of supporters. She basically never gave press conferences. I just wanted to hear what she had to say about issues, but I strained to hear her message from her mouth during any phase of the campaign. If she would have been able to explain her positions (whether I agreed or disagreed), then I would have been comfortable voting for her.

      5) Terrorism/Syria - The Benghazi thing sort of put a lot of questions in my head. My feeling is that Clinton phoned-in her tenure at State. She was granted a Senator seat in NY. Trump, though, had a well-storied history (past and current) of being a tireless 16-hour-a-day worker. I suppose that this sort of goes to character for me. I didn't like either of their personalities, but so what.

      6) ACA - I can do math. I have an understanding of models. The ACA is doomed by math. Clinton would not say the obvious. Why not?

      Ultimately, the president in the US is not king/queen. But, because it is our only elected national office, it gives our nutty press/entertainment industry something to rally around. I thought the election was totally entertaining. I love watching all the "protests" and the frothing at the mouth by singers and actors. If the corporate tax rate gets lowered, illegal immigration is somewhat stemmed, the dept of ed gets a smack down, and the ACA gets replaced with a workable plan, then I'm good and we will have moved forward, as we always do.

      --
      "If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
    20. Re:Just the beginning by king+neckbeard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, she's got experience in politics. Experience agreeing with the Republican's biggest mistakes while having enough baggage and inconsistencies to alienate basically everyone. She voted for the Patriot Act and the Iraq War. She shouldn't be running for dog catcher, let alone POTUS. And yes, that applies to the majority of the rest of the Dem leadership too. That's why they've lost at historical levels despite increasingly favorable demographic advantages.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    21. Re:Just the beginning by bickerdyke · · Score: 2

      I have noticed that since shortly before the election, all of the message boards I participate in have been swarmed with right-wing trolls. And I do mean all of them. The vast majority are just like you; hurling stupid insults and trying to get under people's skin and provoke an emotional response. Either Trump's supporters just all decided to get active online at the same time, or there is a coordinated effort going on. Knowing what I do about social manipulation, I suspect the latter

      Yes, but the coordinated social media activity was a false flag operation by the democrats to make right-wing trolls appear as stupid and insulting hoping that would rub off on the public image of Republicans in general.

      Heck, considering that this was the first election that was decided on which was less hated, both candidates could have been slipped into the opposing party as "poison pill" without any difference whatsoever.

      --
      bickerdyke
    22. Re:Just the beginning by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem with this conspiracy theory is that if the billionaires got to pick the president, it would have been Jeb Bush, not Donald Trump. Do you think that "the elite" wanted TPP cancelled, NAFTA re-negotiated, and subsidized pensions/healthcare for coal miners? Most billionaires would have picked Hillary over Donald. She was the "status quo" candidate, and the status quo is working pretty well for them.

    23. Re: Just the beginning by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 5, Informative

      1) Taxes - As someone fairly educated on economics, Clinton had zero tax/economic policy. I wish she did, so I could compare.

      Here, let me take two seconds to google that for you:
      http://www.taxpolicycenter.org...

      It's certainly fair to disagree with any of Clinton's policies, but to say she had none is either disingenuous or misinformed. Clinton had a huge policy shop - it just never caught much if any press attention. Maybe that was her fault for not pushing them more - perhaps the advice of campaign consultants to avoid her tendency to "wonk out" and glaze people over with details maybe.

      while Trump was clearly against central federal involvement to the level that we had achieved over the previous 16 years.

      The flaw in your logic here is that removing all of that doesn't improve the situation, it makes it worse. Getting rid of an inefficient or messy solution to a problem doesn't get rid of the original problem.

      Clinton framed this issue as nothing more than "Trump is against immigrants." Why couldn't she just propose a comprehensive low-wage immigrant worker program? I mean, that is what the country ultimately needs. I would have voted for her if she had such a plan. She did not.

      Her policy was a bit more than that. Again, I suggest using a search engine rather than accepting what others are telling you (whether on social media, or from various news shows/sites) without question. As for why she couldn't, I would suggest that given the history of both her and her husband, she would be entirely willing to entertain a reasonable (and widely supported) compromise. The Clintons have never been ideologues, and that's partly why they take lots of flak from the Left, because while they're on the left, they're also more than willing to throw whatever pet cause under the bus in order to champion a policy they think is going to attract majority support.
      Trump, meanwhile, has shown zero inclination to any sort of compromises from an absolute hard line position, either on the campaign trail or now that he's in office. Furthermore, his past history has not been that of a compromise type, but rather someone who is adamant about getting his way, and using hardball tactics to get it. Now, if you want the policy he's pushing, then sure, that's a good thing - but I would argue that he's only going to cause us vastly greater problems for a variety of reasons, but that would be an entire thread of its own, so I'll skip it.

      4) Open source - Well, I mean "open". Trump talked to the press and anyone who would listen. Clinton gave canned speeches to small groups of supporters. She basically never gave press conferences.

      Clinton has always had an uneasy relationship with the press, sure. That said, she did give press conferences - far moreso than Trump, yet she was the one who was criticized in certain parts of the media (particularly those that leaned right). Worse, Trump outright banned reporters from certain major media outlets whose coverage he didn't like:
      http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/1...

      My feeling is that Clinton phoned-in her tenure at State.

      Based on what? Criticism on Fox or such? It's fair to disagree with the outcomes, and to suggest she could have done things differently, but it seems strange to me to suggest she spent her time not working.

      ACA - I can do math. I have an understanding of models. The ACA is doomed by math. Clinton would not say the obvious. Why not?

      The ACA isn't doomed by math any more than Social Security will run out in 203X. Since this is Slashdot, here's the requisite car analogy. If your engine is making a whining or knocking sound, do you throw up your hands and say

    24. Re: Just the beginning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Common Core was not federally mandated.

    25. Re:Just the beginning by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      As in, Brexit was obviously the wrong move.

      Define "wrong move" here. Please, without referring to articles explaining your point of view. In your own words, explain.

      Because every time I've asked a liberal elitist to explain why Brexit was bad, and when they could actually answer, it was usually about things that probably won't happen, and if they do happen, probably won't be nearly as bad as the liberals think. Kind of like Trump. The world is going to end! the Russians are coming!!! OMG Trump is going to personally rape your daughter and eat your puppies!

      Stop believing the hyperbole. It is ridiculous

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    26. Re:Just the beginning by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      That was Hillary's mistake. She should have lied big and lied often. In a way it almost inoculated Trump against the accusation of being a liar. Because he is a shameless fantasist, supporters feel completely free to reinterpret his every utterance in any way they please.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    27. Re:Just the beginning by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Remember, the Republicans had some 16 candidates to chose from, while the Democrats ostensibly only had one, being the Bernie never had a chance against the rigged DNC election machine. The bad choice of the Republicans is their choice of their party members, the bad choice of the Democrats was the DNC choice. The fact that Bernie made a significant run and almost beat Hillary shows you how bad a candidate she really was.

      Hillary Loss is fully on the DNC and Hillary as a candidate.

      That, and the US Presidential Election is almost always a lose lose proposition. That is the nature of the two party electoral nonsense.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    28. Re:Just the beginning by mjwx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The vulnerability here are voters without a clue about reality. That one cannot easily be fixed, but throwing the staff and financiers of such companies in jail would be a start.

      Does that include companies like The Guardian too? They're one of the biggest culprits when it comes to trying to influence clueless voters with their version of reality. Hell, these demagogues are still peddling the "Pepe is racist hate speech" nonsense, on their frontpage no less.

      The only thing you've revealed here is that you've never even picked up a copy of the guardian.

      The Daily Mail and their ilk are the biggest culprits in trying to influence clueless voters. This does not excuse the Guardian but what you wrote is completely wrong. The Guardian is trying to influence clued voters, why (and this is how we can tell you've never read the Guardian) is because the Guardian is written much more eloquently. There is a minimum education level required to understand the language used, your clueless readers end up going back to the Daily Mail or Sun to read celebrity trash and extreme right wing propaganda sandwiched between Page 3 girls. The Sun and DM target the most basest desires (which is why they're little more than soft porn these days) with the most basic language.

      It's clear you're a Murdoch fanboy (Fox News/Daily Mail) as you don't even know that "front page" is two words.

      Now if it were up to me, I wouldn't get rid of the DM or the Guardian. I'd simply enforce the same editorial standards as the BBC across the entire industry... And I'd tighten them up too. Get caught publishing a falsehood, a retraction must be issued on the front page. Get caught doing it deliberately, the retraction must run for 5 days.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    29. Re: Just the beginning by aquacrayfish · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Liberals have nobody to blame but yourselves for Trump.

      No, no, no, no, no. Party A does not get to blame party B for party A's candidate. Be proud of what your own candidate stands for if you wish, but you *DO NOT* get to deflect imperfections of your own candidate/office holder onto another party. Trump is who he is, and we have what we have because we keep on nominating unlikable candidates and can't agree on basic facts about what's important.

      ... when they don't agree with mouth-foaming liberals.

      Also, you don't get to react like this to a comment about someone talking about you 'blindly hating the left' with this comment. Stick to your points, and the people who feel compelled to use labels will rightly be ignored.

  2. Only those we disagree with "hijack democracy" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If we agree with the person doing the activity?

    Why, that's just democracy in action!

  3. Nothing to hide by 605dave · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When informed about mass surveillance and privacy issues many people respond that they have "nothing to hide". My response to them is that they may have no criminal activity to hide, but with all that information they can be me manipulated without knowing it. I give the example of a first date. If you know what the person likes and dislikes before the date you can easily shape your approach to the evening, presenting yourself to be as pleasing as possible.

    This is exactly what theses projects are doing to us on a national level, manipulating people one by one. And that's the danger of having so much data about ourselves out there. We can be influenced and manipulated on a personal and societal scale simply by these groups knowing so much about us.

    --
    Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
    1. Re:Nothing to hide by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      That gives me a good idea. I should start a company that influences what people do. I would call it "Marketing" or something like that.

    2. Re:Nothing to hide by 605dave · · Score: 5, Informative

      This goes way beyond traditional marketing. This isn't branding, this isn't an ad campaign, this isn't a PR slack on TV. This is psychological manipulation on a personal level.

      --
      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
    3. Re:Nothing to hide by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      Sort of like...targeted marketing?

  4. Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by johannesg · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This wouldn't be a problem if the media were still fulfilling their role of informing people of the facts, instead of also taking up the role of interpreter of those facts.

    So what if you're influenced by something you hear? That's normal: you receive information and act on it. You should, however, have -all- the information and not just the subset deemed supportive of the cause by invisible people, with the rest made up with suggestive phrasing and outright lies. But reporting of actual facts, supported by accurate and relevant numbers, has become a rarity, and finding those numbers is becoming less and less possible, despite the vast possibilities the internet offers for unlocking information.

    So it's all down to hollow phrases, and given that total lack of input, people become suggestible. I would suggest, however, that the solution lies in a well-educated population that is aware of the problem, and is given unlimited access to uncensored facts and figures.

    1. Re:Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by Jzanu · · Score: 2

      Then you get the dictatorship of the wealthy leisure class; they are the ones who can pay for access to all the information (hint: it isn't free) and have the spare time to to redundantly perform the analysis. Problem is that not only is that simply selecting a group to rule without any oversight, it acts to disenfranchise all of the people who do the work that makes civilization possible.

    2. Re:Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by johannesg · · Score: 2

      Are you seriously saying opinion should be force fed to poor people because they are too poor to understand facts? That's just... wow.

      Any opinion in the media without underlying facts is mere propaganda. That's precisely what I'm arguing against. And since the government collects pretty much all information anyway, why not give it the task of opening its databases and letting people see facts?

      That also costs (some) money, but nobody ever said democracy should be free. In fact, some generations had to give their lives for it. Be glad you can keep the whole thing going just by paying a small fee...

    3. Re:Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You should, however, have -all- the information and not just the subset deemed supportive of the cause by invisible people

      So, when was the magical period when we had "all the information, not just the subset deemed suuportive of the cause"?

      Certainly wasn't this century.

      Or the 20th either.

      Hell, the Spanish-American War of the 19th Century was at least partly the result of the efforts of William Randolph Hearst and Joseph Pulitzer...

      And there were more than a few American newspapers pushing the people's buttons in the late 18th Century leading up to the American Revolution.....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    4. Re:Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Right, as opposed to a congress that passed a health care bill that nobody read. Nobody in congress is doing their job, so why not direct democracy?

    5. Re:Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by SimonInOz · · Score: 2

      There's a problem. Newspapers used to be funded by adverts - specifically classified adverts, notably on Saturdays. And now there are better ways, Craigslist, eBay, GumTree, etc. Better, yes, But no money flows to the newspapers.

      So they are desperately struggling for income. Subscriptions, anything really. But overall, they are no longer strong enough to be independent.

      TV ads are under heavy threat - DVRs, internet, NetFlix, Playstation, many things compete for attention. And money.

      So media is struggling financially. It's not surprising it is not quite the heavy hitter it used to be. It's easy to be bold when you have lots of sources of money ... when they are fading, it's harder.

      So we'd better subscribe to the newspapers and media we want.

      Or we won't have them. (Full disclosure, I subscribe to the Sydney Morning Herald and The Guardian).

      --
      "Cats like plain crisps"
    6. Re:Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not that the media fails to inform - there is informative media out there. During Brexit, for example, the BBC in particular and a few other neutral organizations did debunk the lies and post what little factual information was available. The problem is that people didn't want to hear it.

      In the post-truth world, people don't care about reality or facts. They only care about hearing what they want to hear, which is why populists did so well. Facebook is a great platform for this. Fake news and biased information on Facebook has credibility, because it appears to be coming from "friends". Not politicians, who all lie all the time, but friends and "ordinary people" who are far more trustworthy.

      It's a very efficient system. Someone posts a meme or some fake news. Lots of other people like it and re-post it, giving it credibility and truthiness. Any dissent or contradiction is quickly silenced by virtue of being comment #697 that no-one will ever read.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by kenh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Perhaps the fact that a great majority of Democrats choose to get their news from comedians pretending to be journalists in front of studio audience on a cable channel rather than, you know, an actual news broadcast has some impact. Colbert, Oliver, Trevor, Maher, et all are NOT news shows, they are entertainment, as witnessed by the "laugh" signs in their studios.

      --
      Ken
    8. Re:Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by james_marsh · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually the BBC failed miserably to debunk the lies. In its typically misplaced idea of "neutrality" it would typically avoid making a factual statement and instead have interviewees on to make opposing points. The effect of this was to dignify the lie and place it in the centre ground.

      They've done this consistently for years, especially since coming under significant pressure from the Blair government around the Iraq war time (regarding the dodgy dossier, David Kelly etc). And now the threat of the Conservatives scrapping or reducing the licence fee appears to make them particularly timid about calling out political lies, for example never questioning the premise of austerity and the blame placed on the previous labour government.

      With the advent of 24 hour news the factual content is even more diluted and it's 90% speculation and sensational interviews with nutters.

      Channel 4 News in the UK does a much better job of fact checking and challenging, as does BBC Newsnight, but sadly they mostly only attract the educated and more liberal demographic that is less likely to be misled in the first place.

    9. Re:Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      It's not that the media fails to inform - there is informative media out there. During Brexit, for example, the BBC in particular and a few other neutral organizations did debunk the lies and post what little factual information was available.

      Not very well. The large media organisations have been caught somewhat flat footed. I don't recall previous campaigns where one side was knowingly, brazenly lying about their biggest points as the Brexit leave campaing. In the past there's generally been some attempt to hide it, or weasel it and either way, both sides are usually as bad. This time they weren't.

      The trouble with being "neutral" when one side is objectively worse is that you end up giving equal time to the worst of the lies, which is what happened.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    10. Re:Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Democrats like to laugh at political jokes. Republicans vote political jokes into office.

      You didn't even try to demonstrate that these lefty comedians aren't providing accurate reporting and worthwhile insight.

    11. Re:Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      My dad was a reporter for CBS News radio. He originally started at WCOA in Mobile Al in the late 1950's. He covered the march from Selma to Montgomery in 1965. He eventually moved to DC and WCBS radio ending up covering the White House before passing away in 1994.

      When ever I went to see him in my late teens to early 20's, I would occasionally go with him to work to watch him cover stories at the white house or capital hill, AND his exact words to me every time was if you are not telling both sides of the story all you are telling is propaganda. My dad made sure he was telling both sides of the story.

      Sadly I have failed to see that type of reporting since his passing. I used to watch CBS Evening news all the time. I switched every few years since his passing, to either ABC or NBC and maybe back again to CBS.

      But, I started noticing the downfall of news turning into propaganda since September 2001. I gave up watching any network news around the 2006 or 2007 timeframe and have never turned it back on.

      My dad is rolling over in his grave, God rest his soul.

    12. Re:Wouldn't be a problem -if-... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The BBC started its Fact Check site, and Leave did come out a lot worse from it... Problem is, few people read it. Especially if they were already in the Leave camp, then they just dismissed it as left wing / establishment bias or the worthless opinion of experts.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  5. What kind of bullshit article is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When Obama won in 2008 slashdot ran slobbering articles about how the tech industry had used data mining techniques to properly target ads towards the appropriate voters and who the Dems needed to target to maximize votes. In 2012 this was repeated along with Facebook altering walls to make sure only the "proper" messages were showing up on walls.
    Now the "other" side is doing it and its "evil" and "manipulative" and "fake news"

    No that's bullshit. You can't praise the use of story planting and voter manipulation when your guy does it then turn around and demand all the rules be changes because for all that whiz bang technology you couldn't get voters to choose your sucky candidate. Maybe that's the real story here... that all this voter manipulation and Orwellian tech doesn't really work and individuals still pick the best candidate presented?

    Naaah... they're sheep when they don't vote the way you want and enlightened peoples when you use the same techniques.

    1. Re:What kind of bullshit article is this? by Jzanu · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The difference is the kinds of ads that were used. In Trump's case, the vast majority reflected his campaign of populist dogma with no substance and flag waving blame of the whipping-boy of the hour (Arabs, Gays, Disabled Americans, etc.); here the point is pointing out abuse of data for psychological warfare that violates the rights of all people.

    2. Re:What kind of bullshit article is this? by Jzanu · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm German and a member of CDU/CSU, my "guy" is a woman named Merkel. The issue with abuse of data is the new front in civil life. The military has some awareness but that is mostly limited to destroying communications networks of the enemy and protecting those used by allies. Civil culture must adapt to the reality of increasing mesh between the internet and real-world regarding data collection, analysis, and application. That is the challenge of the 21st century.

    3. Re:What kind of bullshit article is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      At the expense of me probably being flogged alive by the left, would this be similar psychological manipulation that says an ethnic minority cannot be racist? I get a lot of that on Facebook these days.. I'm sexist because I'm male. I'm racist because I'm white. If those direct accusations irritate me, it's because of "male fragility" or "white fragility" (god forbid you tell a woman she's sexist, or an ethnic minority that they're racist). These are becoming so pervasive these days, that it's quite scary. And before you level charges of 'racist' at, all the psych tests that have been used to show "implicit bias" show me having no bias towards any ethnic persuasion. Nor do I exhibit it in day to day life. So somehow, despite every science based/research based test telling me "You are not racist, you have no bias", I'm still somehow a racist.. If it upsets me to be accused of that, it's somehow my fault for being "a fragile white", and I need to be even more tolerant of ethnic minorities (which, as has already been shown by psych tests, I'm as tolerant to as any other skin colour).
      That, to me also falls under 'flag waving blame of the whipping-person of the day".
      I've hated it while the left used psych coercion to achieve their ends, and I hate it now the right have picked up on it (but the right are simply using better tech at the moment).

    4. Re:What kind of bullshit article is this? by Sique · · Score: 2
      The problem is always that actions, which are tolerable if you are a minority, become unbearable if you are the majority. It's like monopoly tactics. If you are the dominating force, there is not enough regulative to migitate the effects of your actions. A single person saying: I don't like XYZ is ok. This is a personal opinion. The majority saying: I don't like XYZ is mobbing, because it heavily weights against anything XYZ can do.

      Yes, a minority can be totally racist. But that's not the problem, as long as they are a small minority. Bundling other products to your most successful product to get into new markets is not a problem if you are just one company of many. But if you control the barrier of entry of everyone else, it becomes a problem. And being racist becomes a problem if you are part of the dominant group which controls the entries for everyone else.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    5. Re:What kind of bullshit article is this? by randallman · · Score: 2

      You're kidding yourself to think the two elections were anyware similar. Politifact - Trump only 31% true (to some degree) - 16% pants on fire. Obama - 75% true (to some degree) - 2% pants on fire. Trump lies or is just ignorant 69% of the time.

      Unprecedented hoards of absolutely fake news and headlines as documented in the article we're discussing. What fake news is there from the Obama election other than he's a secret Muslim not born in the U.S.? The pizza parlor shooting (from ACTUAL fake news) is just one of countless ridiculous "accusations" (I use quotes because the accusers always suggest - "I don't know ... maybe") I've heard on right wing talk radio and the likes.

      Trump - POW's are bad soldiers. Mexico is "sending" their "killers and rapists". Anyone who criticizes him is "fake news".

      Please. There's no comparison.

  6. yay. by DMJC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And yet Stallman is the crazy one? The man is a fucking prophet. Almost everything about computers he's predicted has come true including the eventual turning of computing technology and user data against democracy.

    1. Re:yay. by ArhcAngel · · Score: 2

      The two are not mutually exclusive. In fact most genius' suffer from borderline psychosis and many eventually succumb to it.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  7. It's the argument for an aristocracy by swb · · Score: 2

    It's kind of the argument for a republic if not an aristocracy.

    The masses are too ignorant, gullible and guided by base motivations to make serious decisions. In a Democratic Republic you at least have the will of the people as voiced in elections for Representatives, but that as a rule intelligent, serious people will actually be making the decisions.

    It's what's kind of interesting at times in the British monarchy -- the crown doesn't run government but by virtue of its status, gives advice and guidance to the government and acts as a conscience. I think at this point -- historically, politically and perhaps geriatrically -- this idea has been exhausted.

    Historically, though, you find that most institutions diluted the common man's voice. Rome certainly did with Senatorial asset requirements and differing electoral classes.

    I don't think poor people are too poor to understand facts, but I think at times they are too uneducated *and* too provincial in their outlook. And the level of understanding required to make educated decisions on many topics has gotten pretty deep. I like to think of myself as well-read and well-educated, but when I think of what's involved in truly understanding economics, diplomacy, health, I think I know my limits but do other people, or are they merely indulging in the fallacy that they understand when they don't?

  8. Sounds Familiar... by kenh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm pretty sure Obama For America employed many, if not all the same tactics in 2008 election...

    Why yes, look at MIT's Technology Review, the New York Times, and InfoWorld - again, another glaring example of a profound double-standard. When Team Obama did it, it was "ground-breaking", when Republicans employ similar tools it a nefarious plot to control the world!

    --
    Ken
    1. Re:Sounds Familiar... by Freischutz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure Obama For America employed many, if not all the same tactics in 2008 election...

      Why yes, look at MIT's Technology Review, the New York Times, and InfoWorld - again, another glaring example of a profound double-standard. When Team Obama did it, it was "ground-breaking", when Republicans employ similar tools it a nefarious plot to control the world!

      Normally I'd agree with you but since you are trying to compare putting Obama in the White House to putting Donald Trump in the White House I'm going to have to disagree here. Obama, whatever you may think of him, at least had a multi digit IQ that allowed him to answer questions from reporters, skin that was too thick for his soul to be injured by Saturday Night Live skits and had a clear idea of which countries he had bombed. Trump on the other hand walks out of press conferences when he gets questions he does not like, launches twitter storms where he lambasts anybody who lampoons him and told a reporter he'd launched a missile strike on Iraq until the reporter corrected him and pointed out the strike was on Syria.... and those are just three sample of the highlights of what those bastards at SCL Group and their friends have saddled us with

    2. Re:Sounds Familiar... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you really not see the difference? Let me point it out....

      Obama's system identified likely Republican voters and IGNORED them (according to the New York Times article you linked to). Why? because Obama was attempting to motivate his supporters and sway those on the fence over to his position.

      The Republican system identified likely Democratic votes and attempted to make them so sick of the process that THEY WOULDN'T VOTE.

      One side tries to get out the vote... The other tries to suppress the vote. I can tell which is evil. Can you?

    3. Re:Sounds Familiar... by king+neckbeard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why are you blaming SCL when it's was the Clinton campaign's strategy for a "Pied Piper" nutjob to be the GOP nominee (because she's too bad of a candidate to run against an adult), Bill encouraged him to run, and the media gave that asshole $2 billion in free advertising.

      The reason that we have this problem is that our electoral system lacks an option to shoot both candidates into the sun and have a mulligan. That could have gotten 65% of the vote, easy.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  9. Re:Mysterious by OneAhead · · Score: 3, Informative

    By the same logic, I present you a few fine organizations that cannot possibly have anything to hide because they have a website that tells you what they do:
    The FSB
    The mossad (hope this is the right site because I didn't much care to enable javascript)
    The CIA
    The NSA

    On a completely unrelated note, would you by any chance be in the market for a bridge? I can make you a really good price, because you're my friend!

  10. Archer sez... by Entrope · · Score: 2

    Seriously, are we not doing Betteridge's Law any more?

  11. Stop. Just stop. by Trondheim · · Score: 2

    Can we stop with the Trump conspiracy theories already? The facts are that Clinton was an completely undesirable candidate, and conservatives were tired of Obama's progressive policies (and being called names anytime they disagreed). Is that so hard to understand?

    1. Re:Stop. Just stop. by whitroth · · Score: 2

      I wanted Sanders. I really don't like Clinton.

      However, like most of us, we voted for her. Or did you happen to miss the small detail that SHE WON THE POPULAR VOTE BY ALMOST THREE MILLION?

      So shut up. And the rest of you, oh, right, next you're going to tell me that we don't need new laws to protect democracy from modern tech... and you probably believe that Diebold "I'll deliver OH for Bush" all-electronic voting machines didn't lie, and that you don't need recounts other than "tell the spreadsheet to give me the result again".

      In other words, you libertidiots don't actually believe in democracy, you want plutocracy, and figure you're going to be a plutocrat any day now, if you just work a little harder.

      Clue: you're reading and posting here. No, you won't become a billionaire, you're just a sucker.

  12. This is an assault on our very humanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When informed about mass surveillance and privacy issues many people respond that they have "nothing to hide". My response to them is that they may have no criminal activity to hide, but with all that information they can be me manipulated without knowing it. I give the example of a first date. If you know what the person likes and dislikes before the date you can easily shape your approach to the evening, presenting yourself to be as pleasing as possible.

    Well put, nuanced point. Unfortunately, I tend to find people who use the "I have nothing to hide" don't do nuance well. What does seem to get through to them is the following: "Do you mind taking a dump in the middle of 5th Avenue/Main Street/The High Street? No? Why not? What have you got to hide?" Privacy is a right and a requirement for decent quality of living, irrespective of whether or not you "have anything to hide." And there are lots of reasons to legitimately have something to hide: childhood sexual abuse, escaping an abusive and dangerous partner, a foolish act committed as a teenager or young adult that would mar your reputation or prevent you from obtaining gainful employment (e.g. driving drunk, or experimenting with drugs, or whatever other nonsense young people often get mixed up in before they're old or wise enough to know better), and so on.

    This isn't just an assault on our democracy. It's an assault on our humanity.
     

  13. Re:sick if the nonsense by coastwalker · · Score: 2

    anybody else sick to the back teeth of listening to anonymous cowards claiming that there are these tinfoil hat conspiracy theories from people with far left views?

    --
    Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
  14. Re:sick if the nonsense by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

    Honey, this isn't far-left. This is the center-right members of the relatively left-wing party upset that Third Way politics is failing.

    --
    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.