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US Intelligence Community Has Lost Credibility Due To Leaks (bloomberg.com)

Two anonymous readers and Mi share an article: U.K. police investigating the Manchester terror attack say they have stopped sharing information with the U.S. after a series of leaks that have so angered the British government that Prime Minister Therese May wants to discuss them with President Donald Trump during a North Atlantic Treaty Organization meeting in Brussels. What can Trump tell her, though? The leaks drive him nuts, too. Since the beginning of this century, the U.S. intelligence services and their clients have acted as if they wanted the world to know they couldn't guarantee the confidentiality of any information that falls into their hands. At this point, the culture of leaks is not just a menace to intelligence-sharing allies. It's a threat to the intelligence community's credibility. [...] If this history has taught the U.S. intelligence community anything, it's that leaking classified information isn't particularly dangerous and those who do it largely enjoy impunity. Manning spent seven years in prison (though she'd been sentenced to 35), but Snowden, Assange, Petraeus, the unknown Chinese mole, the people who stole the hacking tools and the army of recent anonymous leakers, many of whom probably still work for U.S. intelligence agencies, have escaped any kind of meaningful punishment. President Donald Trump has just now announced that the administration would "get to the bottom" of leaks. In a statement, he said: "The alleged leaks coming out of government agencies are deeply troubling. These leaks have been going on for a long time and my Administration will get to the bottom of this. The leaks of sensitive information pose a grave threat to our national security. I am asking the Department of Justice and other relevant agencies to launch a complete review of this matter, and if appropriate, the culprit should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. There is no relationship we cherish more than the Special Relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom.

37 of 339 comments (clear)

  1. Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If there's one thing we can all look forward to under the Trump administration it is the strangling and dismantlement of our intelligence community.

    1. Re:Good by FudRucker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      they were corrupt and lawless under Obama, and they are corrupt and lawless under Trump, i doubt much has changed
      "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

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    2. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The intelligence services were politicized under Obama. Their ranks are filled with Partisan Hacks who operate by the credo, The Ends justifies the Means.

      Just look at all the domestic spying that has been uncovered, admitted to, and simply resumed without anything being done about it.

    3. Re:Good by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Trump is talking about punishing leakers so that the government is less accountable, not dismantling the CIA.

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    4. Re:Good by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      However this is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

      We need good intelligence, and some of it needs to be kept secret. However the trend is to classify stuff that shouldn't need to be classified, just because it is easier to classify then have it public.

      With the leaks, what bothers me more isn't the stuff that got leaked out, most of it is fairly common knowledge, it just confirms what we already know. The real problem is why is such mundane stuff classified?

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    5. Re:Good by MightyMartian · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I doubt very much the three letter agencies were behind this leak. I think most of the leaking of late is coming from the White House itself. It's basically an Amateur Hour Administration.

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    6. Re:Good by vadim_t · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What mundane stuff? The subs? The whole point of a sub is that it's hidden. Otherwise there's no point in having them.

      Now of course everybody knows in rough terms how many the US has, and roughly where they're probably found. But if you tell the world that there are precisely two in a given place at a given time, that's a big deal. This is because there's a bunch of countries watching sensors, satellites, and so on, where there might be traces of those two. And by telling them exactly how many, where and when, you're giving them a fantastic way to calibrate their detection. Now they know if they detected them all, if they missed something, and can confirm things like that the uncertain data they logged is actually a sign of a sub in the area.

    7. Re:Good by bobbied · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I doubt very much the three letter agencies were behind this leak. I think most of the leaking of late is coming from the White House itself. It's basically an Amateur Hour Administration.

      Like putting classified information into E-mail flowing though some private server.... Oh wait, wrong administration...

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    8. Re:Good by Rob+Y. · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are leaks and there are leaks. Trump will leak when it's convenient for him to leak - or when he just can't control his impulse to brag about what he knows. But the only leaks he really cares about are the ones from inside the White House, apparently from staffers that can't believe the sheer stupidity of this Administration and feel the country has a need to know.

      Manning and Snowden are a whole other leaky ball of wax. They obviously believed the country had a need to know the stuff they were leaking, and they weren't members of the Administration or even the agencies they were working for. They may have done us a service - and they may also have done some real damage. But what they've pointed out more than anything else is that it's practically impossible to use modern digital technology and reliably maintain the levels of secrecy that the government seems to want to maintain...

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    9. Re:Good by quantaman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      However this is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

      We need good intelligence, and some of it needs to be kept secret. However the trend is to classify stuff that shouldn't need to be classified, just because it is easier to classify then have it public.

      With the leaks, what bothers me more isn't the stuff that got leaked out, most of it is fairly common knowledge, it just confirms what we already know. The real problem is why is such mundane stuff classified?

      Have you ever disclosed your real identity on /.?

      Now assume I go through your posting history and read every comment, and that I start searching the Internet for other comments made under the same username, or people using the same phrases on other forums.

      How confident are you that I couldn't uncover your real identity?

      Give an intelligence agency a bunch of mundane stuff and some confirmed rumours and they'll figure out a lot of things they weren't supposed to know.

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    10. Re:Good by MobyDisk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is there something specific you are attributing to Obama? Those programs go back decades. We just found out about them under Obama. I'd prefer to blame Bush Jr, but really he was just signing-off on justifications for programs that already existed back before 9/11/2001. This is what happens when you have a secret government watchdog.

    11. Re:Good by greythax · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, there is leaking and there is leaking. For a long time, leaking was done to a responsible media, who would then go on to corroborate it with other sources if possible. Snowden actually, to his credit, did it the right way, giving the documents to the media who could then devote time to verifying the information. This is where the 4th estate shows it's value. However, confidence in the media is seriously eroded today. People don't even bother to criticize fox news anymore, and when they are busted in a lie, they don't even bother to defend themselves anymore. Who you leak to says more about your motives than the actual information, IMO. I think we, as a populous, have a dual responsibility to pay attention to these, but not to assume they are indisputable fact. With that said, there is a difference between a candle and a bonfire. When a lot of leaks from different sources point in a certain direction, you should probably start paying attention.

    12. Re:Good by swillden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, Obama promised more government transparency. These leaks delivered quite a bit of that, though I doubt it was what he had in mind...

      On a more serious note, I think the leakers delivered it precisely because Obama didn't. I'm not pointing the finger solely at Obama, I mean the system as a whole, though he may have increased the likelihood of leaks by raising hopes of transparency and then failing to deliver. The system is too secretive, too closed, and too uncontrolled, and people like Manning and Snowden (not so much Petraeus) do what they do in order to fix that problem. It's not a very good fix, for obvious reasons, but since the system seems incapable of correcting itself, it seems the only option we have.

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    13. Re:Good by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Really? The leaks seem to come from people who are opposed to Trump and are leaking everything and anything that they perceive may embarrass him and his administration.

      It's coming from employees who have been there since before Trump was inaugurated. Or did you forget those leaks in January?

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  2. 'Escaped any meaningful punishment' by mccalli · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You know, apart from exile or being confined to a single building for multiple years on end. I mean apart from that nothing too serious.

    1. Re:'Escaped any meaningful punishment' by John.Banister · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Rosenbergs got plans for how to build nukes to the Russians. There's no comparison to the people you mention. The comparison for Snowden, who passed information to the entire public via the press is Daniel Ellsberg who did that same thing. All charges against Ellsberg were dropped. There is no comparison between Assange and any American citizen as he is not an American citizen and owes no duty to our government. However, if you want to look at someone who has passed classified intelligence to the Russians, there's been a story in the news recently...

  3. Does this include Agent Orange... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Keeping his mouth shut when entertaining the Russians in the Oval Office?

    1. Re:Does this include Agent Orange... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The President does have the right to reveal classified information yes, but through proper channels and with oversight. He does not have the legal right to spout it out off in a random conversation.

    2. Re:Does this include Agent Orange... by bobbied · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Keeping his mouth shut when entertaining the Russians in the Oval Office?

      You do realize that ANYTHING Trump decides to discuss, classified or not, is legal right? It's under HIS authority that stuff is classified in the first place and he can declassify anything he wants anytime he wants.

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    3. Re:Does this include Agent Orange... by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Besides that whole issue reeking of the Trump-Russia collusion conspiracy theory for which there is still no evidence.

      The fact that there are so many overt signs of dishonestly and incompetence bubbling up so early in the term is a problem owned by the Administration, not its detractors. A bit of speculation on the part of the detractors does not invalidate specific named criticisms that can be backed by concrete evidence.

      Personally, I doubt actual collusion on the part of Trump himself, but I will keep an open mind to real evidence. But a proper investigation is very likely to throw mud on a lot of his friends and people in the Administration, and possibly a couple indictments to boot; it is right and proper and necessary to purse such an investigation, given just what is known in the public record.

  4. Intelligence agencies have lost credibility by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Intelligence agencies have lost credibility by lying all the time. It's no wonder there are leakers like Snowden: no self-aware person would feel confident following the leadership in the NSA or CIA or FBI.

    Let's be honest though: there has never been a time in history when the CIA or FBI were particularly competent.

    --
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  5. also at the top by kisrael · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With Trump blurting out "I'm not saying we got our intelligence from Israel, but: Israel" and "Oh and we got some nuke subs over there, look how tough I am", there are leaks at the top as well.

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  6. Re:Let's tell the fools from traitors here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    mi aka roman_mir once again proves he loves sucking authoritarian cock.

  7. Re:Let's tell the fools from traitors here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Also lets tell apart whistle blowers and traitors. Shedding light on unlawful practices of government agencies isn't treason. The unlawful practices themselves are the crime.

  8. We are suck by Sperbels · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We spend a lot of time and money making ourselves believe we are morally superior. Then when believers make it into the ranks of organizations that are the strong arm of the US government, they suddenly see the evidence that we aren't morally superior at all. We are bullies, using our superior weapons to bully other nations into favoring western business. Some can't deal with this reality, and try to right the wrongs. Or at least, that's how I think this keeps happening. But it's the plight of leadership. The other dogs are constantly looking for advantage, and nipping at your heals. You have to smack them down or lose your position. That also means taking food from betas to maintain your strength. I'm not saying it's right, but it's the reality.

    1. Re:We are suck by king+neckbeard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We could cut the military budget to a fraction of what it is now and still have a "stupidly big army."

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  9. Attention of the Public Being Misdirected by DERoss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    U.S. citizens should be far more concerned about what was leaked than the fact that there were leaks. The leaks clearly show our government is out of control, spying on us citizens without cause.

    No, this spying did not start with either Trump or Obama. It might have started with one of the Bushes, or it might have started even earlier. Whenever it started, it should stop.

    However, Trump want this spying to continue. That is the real reason for his focus on ending the leaks.

    1. Re:Attention of the Public Being Misdirected by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In some cases, sure. In this one, not so much. What was leaked here was the name of the suspect and images of the device used at a point in the investigation at which the UK was still in the process of rounding up associates of the suspect and risked tipping them off that they needed to run (assuming they had not already done so, of course). At least some of that information would have come out anyway (did we *really* need to see images of part of the device and a bloody backpack though?), but the premature release to stroke someone's ego/wallet/whatever may lead to some members of the suspected network evading capture and successfully carrying out further attacks. Maybe next time that'll be against US interests, or someone won't share information with the US that could have prevented an attack because they didn't want the risk of having it leak.

      There's a big difference between blowing the whistle on wholesale survelliance and abuse of legal limits vs. compromising a live investigation for the sake of a little kudos and a scoop, but it can also be an awfully fine line between the two and it's pretty clear those involved in the leaks and reporting them either have no idea - or simply don't care - which is which. This is absolutely the latter and it's a damning indictment of both the leaker(s) *and* the media that published it sense of responsibilty and intelligence - government is far from the only agency that is out of control.

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  10. It's all BS by jodido · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Leaks are an essential part of how the US government works. The White House uses them, Congress uses them, the military, the CIA, NSA, etc. It's an aspect of bureaucratic infighting. "Leaks" will never stop because no one who says they want them to actually wants them to. They want EVERYBODY ELSE to stop.

    1. Re:It's all BS by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To some extent that's true, but generally the US intelligence does its best to keep the secrets that it gains from its allies under wraps. The free exchange of intelligence between Britain and the US has been a cornerstone of the Atlantic Alliance since WWII, and Britain has every right to be furious that classified information it exchanged with partnering agencies in the US ended up on the front page of newspapers on both sides of the Atlantic.

      This wasn't strategic leaking of information. This wasn't some scheme to use classified information to gain some advantage. It was just the big mouths that currently run the Administration spouting off because they're a band of irresponsible children. Like Trump blabbing off about Israeli intelligence, this is going to have ramifications, both for information sharing between the US and its allies, and likely between the White House and the three letter agencies. It's becoming crystal clear that the current Administration cannot be trusted with classified information, and Congress and the three letter agencies are probably simply going to start withholding information, both to preserve active operations, and to preserve critical foreign alliances that the Trump Administration is putting at risk.

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    2. Re:It's all BS by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think up until recently most people in the intelligence agencies still assumed they were working for a rational human being capable of reflection, reason and self-control. Now that everyone both in the US intelligence services and overseas understands that they're dealing with an arrogant halfwit, they will simply route everything around him. And that's the irony of it all, that Trump's attempt to look like the Big Man, the ultimate Alpha Male, is actually going to render him impotent. Congress, the three letter agencies, foreign allies, everyone is basically going to do what they can to either get around him or undermine him. He is going to become one of the most useless and isolated Presidents in US history. It wouldn't surprise me that even without impeachment and removal, the US will end up with a Pence presidency in all but name; a sort of replay of the last couple of years of the Wilson Administration.

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  11. Now they've lost credibility by Lucas123 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, if I have this right, when they were leaking information about the executive branch on a daily basis to the press, that was cool... but now that they're leaking information to the press about terrorism, that's bad.

    Howabout we call it all bad. That's not how bureaucrats should pay back the government they work for.

    Also, how is it that the federal government can monitor its citizenry ala The Patriot Act, but it can't even figure out who's leaking classified information to the press?

  12. The answers are obvious. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The leadership of the intelligence community has been using their authorized secrecy to do terrible, evil things, and cover it all up.

    The low-level functionaries that must facilitate this evil are mostly ordinary people with something of a moral backbone. They aren't paid nearly enough to sell their souls, and feel an obligation to protect the people whom they purportedly serve from all the evil that their bosses are perpetuating.

    So, the culture of evil leadership has created the culture of perfidious employees.

    If they want the leaks to stop, the must either:

    1) cut all their employees in for a much large slice of the pie (everyone who touches anything secret gets a 0.5 million dollar a year salary, to start). Buy their silence.
    2) Clean up their act, so people stop feeling morally obligated to leak information.

  13. Surprise surprise by ilsaloving · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When you prioritize people who enjoy shoving their head up your ass over people who know how to do their jobs, then this is the result.

    If Trump actually manages to hang on for the full four years, I think the US will be completely unrecognizable by the end. And not in a good way.

  14. They want backdoors in all IT gear too by zerofoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So the US intelligence community can't keep a secret, but they want backdoors in all IT gear and encryption algorithms.

    Yeah, that will end well...

  15. LOL, due to "leaks"? by katorga · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How about loosing their cyber weapon arsenal to hackers?

    How about having hired Snowden as a contractor?

    How about missing every single terror attack?

    How about missing the Russian infiltration of Crimea or move into Syria?

    How about rendition, secret torture camps, public exposure of torture?

    How about perpetually killing civilians with drone strikes based on their "intelligence"?

    How about missing the fact that Bin Ladin was living around the corner in an allied country for 10 YEARS?

    How about not finding WMD?

    And they are losing credibility due to leaks? Please.

  16. Re:It's still confidential and classified. by swillden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He's the President. He's the highest level classification authority in the U.S.

    That just means his leaks are legal. It doesn't mean they're good, or that Americans shouldn't be upset about them.

    One of the deepest principles of intelligence handling is that however valuable the intelligence itself is, the sources and methods are even more important. Except in very, very rare circumstances, any intelligence shared with anyone not an extremely close ally (and even them, generally) should be very carefully edited to ensure that it does not disclose sources and methods. This is especially important when the sources and methods belong to an ally, because if those are burned, the ally may well decide to stop providing any intel.

    Sharing information with the Russians about a common enemy is a perfectly good thing for the president to do. However, a president who is not a narcissistic, insecure idiot would do this by directing his staff to provide intelligence appreciations. Said staff contains professional intelligence officers who are very good at identifying and excising details that might expose sources and methods, and would be perfectly capable of delivering the information, including solid estimates of its reliability that Russian intelligence professionals would correctly understand, without endangering intelligence gathering operations or alliances.

    So, yeah, Trump was perfectly within his legal rights to leak this information to the Russians. But it's still perfectly correct to call it a leak, because he screwed it up so badly and in the process revealed more information than he intended.

    We have to hope that the intelligence agencies have schooled Trump on the issue and that it won't happen again.

    Oh, wait...

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