Slashdot Mirror
Investigation Demanded Over Fake FCC Comments Submitted By Dead People (bbc.com)
An anonymous reader writes:
Fight for the Future has found another issue with the fake comments submitted to the FCC opposing net neutrality. "The campaign group says that some of the comments were posted using the names and details of dead people," according to the BBC. The exact same comment was also submitted more than 7,000 times using addresses in Colorado, where a reporter discovered that contacting the people at those addresses drew reactions which included "I have never seen this before in my life" and "No, I did not post this comment. In fact, I disagree with this comment." Fight for the Future also knocked on doors in Tampa, Florida, where the few people who answered "were shocked to hear that their name and address were publicly listed alongside a political message they did not necessarily understand or agree with." An alleged commenter in Montana told a reporter she didn't even know what net neutrality was.
14 people have already signed Fight for the Future's official complaint to the FCC, which calls for notification of all people affected, an investigation, and the immediate removal of all fake comments from the public docket. "Based on numerous media reports, nearly half a million Americans may have been impacted by whoever impersonated us," states the letter, "in a dishonest and deceitful campaign to manufacture false support for your plan to repeal net neutrality protections."
Fight for the Future says they've already verified "dozens" of instance of real people discovering a fake comment was submitted in their name -- and that in addition, more than 2,400 people have already used their site to contact their state Attorneys General demanding an investigation. They note the FCC has taken no steps to remove the fake comments from its docket, "risking the safety and privacy of potentially hundreds of thousands of people," while a campaign director at Fight for the Future added, "For the FCC's process to have any legitimacy, they simply cannot move forward until an investigation has been conducted."
14 people have already signed Fight for the Future's official complaint to the FCC, which calls for notification of all people affected, an investigation, and the immediate removal of all fake comments from the public docket. "Based on numerous media reports, nearly half a million Americans may have been impacted by whoever impersonated us," states the letter, "in a dishonest and deceitful campaign to manufacture false support for your plan to repeal net neutrality protections."
Fight for the Future says they've already verified "dozens" of instance of real people discovering a fake comment was submitted in their name -- and that in addition, more than 2,400 people have already used their site to contact their state Attorneys General demanding an investigation. They note the FCC has taken no steps to remove the fake comments from its docket, "risking the safety and privacy of potentially hundreds of thousands of people," while a campaign director at Fight for the Future added, "For the FCC's process to have any legitimacy, they simply cannot move forward until an investigation has been conducted."
Your denial of reality is impressive.
Those dead people are fine upstanding Chicagoans. I will not let my city be besmirched this way.
Those votes don't matter. The President is elected by the electoral vote and not by the people.
I don't know what it is about network neutrality but every single time there is anything about it, it brings out the slashdot anon trolls en masse.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
What you are looking at is an attempt to discredit Net Neutrality. These stories are attempting to create an impression that the only people who support net-neutrality are cranks and liars. They might be true, undoubtedly, there are cranks and liars who support net-neutrality, just as there are, undoubtedly, cranks and liars who oppose net-neutrality.
Nearly any large issue has cranks and liars on both sides. However, there is clearly an attempt underway to associate support for net-neutrality with cranks and liars.
I find it impossible to believe such an upstanding businessman as Trump would allow false information to disrupt the glorious free-market enterprise that he's trying to sell the internet off to.
Dead people are people too!
If public comments matter this much, that's a clear sign these rules shouldn't be made by a small unelected board. Rather they should be made by the public, by having elected representatives pass a law.
Big assumption. I'd look at lobbying firms representing companies that are publicly or privately resisting net neutrality. And I mean privately in that some companies publicly support it and privately lobby against it. Those with something to gain by prioritizing internet traffic. You know who you are. Start in Silicon Valley.
But a blanket charge of Trump trollish behavior makes no sense given the real names and addresses used.
I hear ya, my friend. Keep on fighting the good fight! If we can save just one child from harm by defeating this net neutrality it will all be worth it.
THis is interesting coincidence::
https://www.comcastroturf.com/
enter Butterfield as search term
End up at
https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/searc...?
With results of 17 Butterfield surnames all reporting
exact same text . All submitted their FCC filing
on exact same date. Huh.
I"m sure there is nothing to see here so safe
to assume FCC will just accept them all as legit.
Something between the lines jumps out and bites your arm off. Soltan Gris / London
The Russian government continue to pay their trolls to keep the GOP in power. Once Putin is finally thrown out, much of their noise will abate.
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
No. No its not.
Incorrect, (most) moderators are simply expressing their distaste for offtopic thread-jacking (which you yourself are now guilty of attempting). This article is about FCC comment fraud; and while I do see OP's point about false-flag/vandalism, they decided to draw parallels to race-related issues (which is arguably unnecessary, and serves to distract from the issue at hand). They then went on to insinuate that anyone that talks about the actual issue must be seeking some sort of scandal, and suggesting that anyone that does not agree with their points (however correct they may be) lacks a brain. Therefore, we downvote it to prevent well-intentioned, but easily distracted, folks from wandering off into redundant tangent threads that contribute nothing to the discussion about FCC comment fraud.
It's a company called DCI Group, this is not their first or last fake consumer front groups.
http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/firmsum.php?id=D000021952
Seems to be Verizon funding this one.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Talk:DCI_Group
e.g. 2001, they create a fake group called "ATL", does this sound familiar?
"I get letters from dead people
In August 2001 the Los Angeles Times reported that ATL was behind a “carefully orchestrated nationwide campaign to create the impression of a surging grass-roots movement” behind Microsoft. “The campaign, orchestrated by a group partly funded by Microsoft, goes to great lengths so that the letters appear to be spontaneous expressions from ordinary citizens. Letters sent in the last month are printed on personalized stationery using different wording, color and typefaces—details that distinguish those efforts from common lobbying tactics that go on in politics every day.” Although FLS-DCI has not publicly claimed responsibility for generating the letters, they are consistent with the company’s own description of the word produced by its “letter desk” service: “all unique, but conveying your desired message.”
"According to the Times, the campaign was discovered when Utah’s Attorney General at the time, Mark Shurtleff, received letters “purportedly written by at least two dead people . . . imploring him to go easy on Microsoft Corp. for its conduct as a monopoly. The pleas, along with about 400 others from Utah citizens,” included at least one from the nonexistent city of Tucson, Utah.
The below ones seem perfectly genuine and drive the point home with well-reasoned arguments:
Browse FCC for more.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
>"An alleged commenter in Montana told a reporter she didn't even know what net neutrality was. "
Actually, based on my dealings with "every day people" I estimate that perhaps as many as 98% of people either have no idea what net neutrality is or have highly inaccurate information about what it is. But this seems typical on any highly technical or abstract subject.
Assinging blame on anon's is stupid. If someone bases their argument on who's to blame for posting comments, they are either very dumb, or think you are.
God bless idiots!
Oh hang on he's been indicted for tax evasion
I agree, except for the part about Putin being thrown out. I was under the impression that the economic consequences of corruption he brings would doom Russia. Indeed I can see it has hurt them short and long-term, and his actions have also brought economic sanctions. However, he's somehow managed to trick Russian people with propaganda, enough to keep some level of popularity despite terrible economic conditions. Russian people, like my American back-country neighbors, blindly support the strongmen that abuse them.
With the rising price of oil, some of that economic pain will ease. Now is the time I thought he'd have been ousted, but with the success of his propaganda machine in electing Trump, I'm wondering what evidence we have of Putin's impending demise?
Everyone -- note that this article is being spammed hard by "Anonymous Cowards" sprouting pro-Putin and pro-Trump talking points.
And in effect anti-net-neutrality.
Adjust your skepticism accordingly. They're rattled -- there's been a strong uptick in Putinbot activity in the last few days, which makes me wonder if pro-Western forces are getting closer to the truth on Kremlingate.
In the absence of Slashdot waking up to themselves and getting rid of "Anonymous Coward", you'll have to wade through a lot of Putinbot spam in the meantime.
Has anyone bothered to do a check on a sample of pro-net neutrality comments to see if similar problems exist there, or are only anti-nn comments worth investigating?
Look at North Korea, it doesn't matter how abusive the regime is just as long as it pumps out enough propaganda and stifles dissent. Coming to a Western nation near you soon! (already available in some regions, check stock for more details)
That seemed small to me given the number of people signing petitions these days. The reason for it is that these are the people who signed the letter when it was originally drafted. There's no provision to add your own name to this letter, which is kind of too bad, because I'd sign on to it if I could. In this day and age, I wonder if having "only" 14 signatories to a letter (who aren't well known in some relevant field) detracts from the power of the message.
Ah. The "both sides do it" lie.
The FCC needs to filter out emails from San Junipero.
Exactly. More laws mean more protection. And, good point about marriage. One of the proposed changes to the marriage laws here in CA was over 1,500 pages of new regulations and fees. They were designed to make marriage more equitable which is a good thing.
...Dead can vote, then the Dead can comment!
"I'm a dirty white tomcat, enter my world..."
Dead people want an investigation?
If this goes unchecked I'm going to do the reverse next time myself. I can spin up bots in and to post.
They probably screwed up their exponential backoff and dos'd the FCC site or finished the run and said nuke the site.
Clearly, the next war will be fault by the dead.
Terrible economic conditions? The Russians still remember the 90ies. Compared to that the current conditions are merely inconvinient.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Dead people are already being discriminated against already on a massive scale. For example they aren't even legally allowed to own property anymore, but must work through internediaries like foundations, trust funds, banks, and lawyers. And now you want to rob them of their voice too?
That's crass vitalism, that is!
This is something we from the grassroots action group "Dead does not mean buried !" take a stand against !
Beside which, we prefer the term "differently alive", thank you very much.
All laws, decisions and rules made by the FCC are now hereby null and void.
Enjoy, hackers.
I don't see why people are upset over what these dead people said.
They should see the comments that dead people are leaving at slashdot! The FCC is getting it easy for some reason.
Ooggly Boogly boogly woogly boogly SOROS booglywoogly!
Your exchange rate is now cursed for 7 years, say goodbye to your savings because you get negative interest! SOROS
This is slashdot, threadjacking is a cromulent strategy, and often popular.
I'm guessing there is some other reason. Maybe the comment was racist flamebait, and that's why it got moderated as flamebait?
This is Hillary Shills not Putin Shills.
~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
great list.. sortable alpha fname, mname, lname.
Keep in mind that "Leftist" is a shibboleth for those who consume conservative talk radio . If you believe what Rush and Glenn Beck have been telling you, you've been trained to attack these strawmen on sight. At least after you go out of your way to prop them up.
fought...
Lol
Does anyone know how to easily search through the mess to find instances of my name being abused?
when you can just steal somebody else's?
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
What a stupid move from net neutrality opponents.
It would have been easy for Trump appointed FCC to remove net neutrality because "we won elections and we are legitimate to act on that". Now with obvious cheating, the change will never look legitimate.
Does the sound like a Trump supporter to you
Yes, it sure does. Believe it or not, some Trump supporters are pro-Net Neutrality. They want to be able to keep shitposting rare pepes and flooding fake Macedonian-operated "news" posts onto Twitter all day long.
"If there was a gay Afro-Puertorican Linux distribution, I'd give it a try" ~lucm
14 people have already signed Fight for the Future's official complaint to the FCC
Seriously? FOURTEEN people?
SMH
Ken
Ah. The "both sides do it" lie.
Ah, the old "Dismiss the fact that both sides do it by calling it a lie" line...
Are you sincerely arguing that every "Pro" Net Neutrality comment is unique, and was submitted by an actual person, who only submitted one comment?
Ken
It's the degree of accessibility. An online form is several orders of magnitude easier to take advantage of. The same kind of tactics, at the same scale, for voter fraud requires millions of people.
Sounds like the basis for a movie.
It's probably better and easier to get government out of the marriage business. Cause it ain't any of theirs. A regulation is a chain around your throat and tax is theft.
I agree, except for the part about Putin being thrown out. I was under the impression that the economic consequences of corruption he brings would doom Russia. Indeed I can see it has hurt them short and long-term, and his actions have also brought economic sanctions. However, he's somehow managed to trick Russian people with propaganda, enough to keep some level of popularity despite terrible economic conditions.
Putin has (at least given the impression) that he has made Russia strong again. Russians experienced weak governance and poor economic conditions in the 90's and early 2000s. Whilst the poor economic conditions were always there, they at least had a powerful government prior to Gorby.
I have no illusions that Putin is a tyrant who got where he is through deceit and intimidation, but a strong leader is something that Russians like. I doubt he's as popular as he claims (106% approval rating or something as stupid), but I also doubt he's that unpopular either, so even with the worst case scenario with Trump, I cant see Putin going anywhere. Especially with the support of the oligarchs who really control Russia these days.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
What did you expect from a jew owned forum?
So another example of if you cant get support for something, just fake it. Works for polls. HAH
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke
It needs to be emphasized: this is not a voting process.
In the US regulatory process, a regulator like the FCC is bound to follow the laws passed by our representatives in Congress. Once the chambers pass a bill, that's the end of the vote counting, and the rest is implementing the legislation as passed.
At this point in the regulatory process, a regulator is to address concerns that are brought up regardless of how many people voice each concern. It doesn't really matter whether five people or five hundred bring up a concern: it's still just one concern.
Sure, it's a bad thing that peoples names were false attached to these comments. It bears some investigation. But let's be clear that since this isn't voting, it's not like the scheme will have screwed up a vote. The outcome will be just as legitimate even if everyone submitting duplicate comments--honest or not--wasted federal resources in deduplicating them.
Another thing the Simpsons predicted...
Typical neocon focusing on concepts like loyalty and guilt instead of logic and reason. Pull in the military for some more rabble. The same military that's been sent into stupid fights for decades. The same military that doesn't get taken care of when it comes home. The same military that's woefully overspent on while infrastructure is crumbling and the real enemy (politicians and their corporate benefactors) are fleecing as much of the American public as they can, and net neutrality is another obstacle between them and tightening their monopolies. You are literally advocating for less choice, and the concept of competition in a capitalist market **requires** consumer choice.
Speaking of the obsession of military, where do you think that comes from? Lovers of the military are lovers of war and victims of propaganda. Do you want a peaceful America with fair markets and opportunity, or a warring America where businesses are first class citizens and private citizens are considered worthless unless they work for a corporation? When's the last time a foreign government threatened your rights or life? Spoilers: never. To contrast, when's the last time a corporation threatened to limit your choice or rights? You're literally in a thread describing astroturfing (creating false discourse to sway public opinion), and have found yourself among the astroturfers. Forcing businesses to play nice does not hurt this country. If you disagree, you can turn in your breaks and lunches, your 401k, your vacations, OSHA, and the other many things that've been added to "needlessly regulate" businesses and make sure they don't literally work you to death. Because that's what happens without regulations. Go take a look at China if you want to know what happens without regulations.
Your vision of America is filled with fear and manipulation of the public. You can't even make your point without bringing up some "leftist" bullshit and how others don't love America if they don't agree with you. You need to get it through your thick skull that no business gives a fuck about the customers they rip off, the governments they evade, the environments they destroy, the employees they exploit, or the competitors that they undercut. Business is nothing but raw greed, and they will never have your interests in mind. Trickle down doesn't work, and hasn't worked, ever. If it did, the recessions in the 1980s and late 2000s wouldn't have happened. The economy still can't seem to get back to what it was before the 1980s, and a large part of that is due to the flawed model of economics started in the 1980s and the idiots siding with corporations to strip this country of its resources, both natural and human. Where's the economic growth? They've had almost 40 years, and business still can't get it right. It took the government bailing their sorry asses out a decade ago to prevent the economy from imploding. So tell me again, why trust these corporations?
Ask yourself when the last time was that a business ever acted to your political benefit. When's the last time a corporation advocated for consumer rights? When's the last time they started campaigns to clean up the putrid messes they leave? What have companies done to make *your* life better?
Study their actions, not their words, for they are empty.
Tax is payment for the public services that we all use. Unless you live in your own compound, far in the wilderness for your entire life, government services have benefitted you, and it's your duty as a citizen (just like me) to pay taxes. Without them, you can forget travelling freely. Every interstate would become a toll road. You can forget educating your children without spending thousands a month. You can forget free sidewalks, free parks for children to play in, national parks and other public campgrounds, police, fire departments, public libraries, the military, the myriad funding programs for research, medicine, and community building, Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, Section 8, EBT/SNAP, FAFSA funding, the USPS, the list goes on...
Your comment proves you have no idea how much government is responsible for the quality of its constituents' lives. If any of the above were privatized, you'd be paying out the nose to make use of them. I deliberately omitted ambulances because they're already privatizing them, and it's resulted in fewer emergencies being reported, lowering public health. Who can choose $10k or more in debt over abstaining and hoping you make it through? Kick out taxes, and you kick out the only thing standing between you and corporate slavery. I'm not kidding. It's been done before and they'll try it again if they think they can get away with it. For America, you really only need to look back a few hundred years. Worldwide, countless countries have struggled with the same problems, generally in their formative years much like America.