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Apple Is Manufacturing a Siri Speaker To Compete Against Google Home, Amazon Echo (bloomberg.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the always-listening dept.

According to Bloomberg, Apple is manufacturing a Siri-controlled smart speaker that could debut as soon as its annual developer conference in June. "The device will differ from Amazon's Echo and Alphabet's Google Home speakers by offering virtual surround sound technology and deep integration with Apple's product lineup," reports Bloomberg. From the report: Introducing a speaker would serve two main purposes: providing a hub to automate appliances and lights via Apple's HomeKit system, and establishing a bulwark inside the home to lock customers more tightly into Apple's network of services. That would help combat the competitive threat from Google's and Amazon's connected speakers: the Home and Echo mostly don't support services from Apple. Without compatible hardware, users may be more likely to opt for the Echo or Home, and therefore use streaming music offerings such as Spotify, Amazon Prime Music or Google Play rather than Apple Music. Apple hopes that more advanced acoustics technology will give the speaker an edge over competitors, according to people with knowledge of the product's development. Along with generating virtual surround sound, the speakers being tested are louder and reproduce sound more crisply than rival offerings, the people said. Apple has also considered including sensors that measure a room's acoustics and automatically adjust audio levels during use, one of the people said. Apple will also likely let third-party services build products for the speaker. The device will be a hub for Apple's HomeKit home automation system, letting users control devices such as lights, door locks and window blinds.

70 comments

  1. Courage to innovate! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Go Tim Go!

    1. Re: Courage to innovate! by fubarrr · · Score: 0

      It will look like a glass buttplug

    2. Re: Courage to innovate! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Can't innovate anymore my ass". Well maybe with that buttplug

  2. And yet I still don't see... by cayenne8 · · Score: 2
    ....myself voluntarily bugging my house as a tradeoff for some of these perceived benefits.

    I have no inclination to help usher in the early precedents of the "telescreen" from 1984...

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    1. Re:And yet I still don't see... by tlhIngan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ....myself voluntarily bugging my house as a tradeoff for some of these perceived benefits.

      I have no inclination to help usher in the early precedents of the "telescreen" from 1984...

      That's what makes this device all the more interesting. Remember, to differentiate itself from Google, Apple is on a privacy streak. They're offloading to the device anything that does not require the cloud. If they can run their vision systems offline, Apple is doing it (iPhoto does a lot of the computation on your Mac, which is why there are often different results for the same photo collection - iPhoto will not communicate with other instances using iCloud because of privacy reasons).

      I suspect this device will also do all the voice recognition locally, or as much as possible in order to keep all the audio data local and off Apple's servers.

      Apple has a self-interest in doing this - they don't monetize the user's data, so by not collecting data they don't need in order to operate, they keep that data away from the government. Far easier to deny a request with "we do not have that data on hand as we do not collect it" than to try to defend in court the right to not release information they have already collected.

      Even Siri is doing less and less on Apple's servers and more locally.

    2. Re:And yet I still don't see... by exomondo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even Siri is doing less and less on Apple's servers and more locally.

      Siri can't do anything without a connection to Apple's servers. Put your iPhone in Airplane Mode and then Activate Siri:

      Siri not available.
      You are not connected to the internet.

    3. Re:And yet I still don't see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What things is siri doing locally instead of on Apple's servers?

    4. Re:And yet I still don't see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing. apple worshippers have no idea how technology works. They just make up shit to have apple sound awesome

    5. Re:And yet I still don't see... by Visarga · · Score: 1

      As dumb as it is, Siri could have been extended with thousands of commands, by simple API hookups. It was plain old programming, not AI. They didn't do it. They didn't make Siri truly useful.

    6. Re:And yet I still don't see... by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      As dumb as it is, Siri could have been extended with thousands of commands, by simple API hookups. It was plain old programming, not AI. They didn't do it. They didn't make Siri truly useful.

      You mean like SiriKit (Introduced in iOS 10)? It's how you can request an Uber or Lyft through SIri - apps can register commands against Siri for these actions.

    7. Re:And yet I still don't see... by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      For me, the question is where does the remote part end and the local part stop.

      It makes sense that Siri (and Cortana, Google whatever they call it) do their voice processing in a data centre cause there is simply not enough horsepower (yet) on the device itself to do that kind of work.

      But... what happens after that? If the entire conversation involves the data center telling the phone what the user wanted, and the phone then delivers, it's still effectively local. I'm personally inclined to believe that this is how Siri works, because Siri responds very well to localized commands, such as "play such and such song" or, "create a reminder to do blah".

      When I tried to do anything with google assistant, it just wouldn't handle those kinds of details, so to me that implies Siri is actually doing work locally, while google assistant is simply parroting a server response.

      I don't know how Cortana works. I only tried it briefly, and then gave up when I asked "What is Avogadro's number?" and it's response was to say "I can't connect" and then lock the screen so badly I had to use task manager to sign out of my computer in order to regain control.

      Anyways, I have no idea if anything I wrote above is actually true. It's based on my impressions during usage. I am also inclined to believe as the parent does, which is that Apple is trying very hard to maintain privacy. This is based on their previous actions. They were second only to blackberry in having full device encryption, and giving the user fine-grained controls on what 3rd party apps could do, for example.

      Google did it because they were embarrassed into it, not because they wanted to.

    8. Re:And yet I still don't see... by exomondo · · Score: 1

      It makes sense that Siri (and Cortana, Google whatever they call it) do their voice processing in a data centre cause there is simply not enough horsepower (yet) on the device itself to do that kind of work.

      Well it's not just processing the voice to translate what was said, the system needs to interpret what the intention of the action is. You don't learn that effectively by just doing it on individual devices, you need large datasets to understand it. So that it can process the voice, try and understand the intention and then get feedback from the user as to whether this was actually correct.

      But... what happens after that? If the entire conversation involves the data center telling the phone what the user wanted, and the phone then delivers, it's still effectively local.

      That isn't local at all, It's the complete opposite. What you described is the remote server gets the all the voice data of what you said, the remote server translates that into understanding the intention and then the remote server sends the intention back to the phone which is the remote server controlling the phone. What significant bit about that is "local"?

      I'm personally inclined to believe that this is how Siri works, because Siri responds very well to localized commands, such as "play such and such song" or, "create a reminder to do blah".

      Those aren't localized commands at all. In the song example your voice command is sent to the server, it interprets it to understand its meaning then sends the command back to your phone with the action to "play" and the name of the song. All your phone is doing is looking through your song list to see if you have that song, and if so playing it.

      When I tried to do anything with google assistant, it just wouldn't handle those kinds of details

      What kinds of details? It couldn't play a song that you had locally? It couldn't create a reminder? I doubt that.

    9. Re:And yet I still don't see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean like SiriKit (Introduced in iOS 10)? It's how you can request an Uber or Lyft through SIri - apps can register commands against Siri for these actions.

      No. Those are very tightly sandboxed to avoid competition with Apple's key services which is why you can't even hook up simple things like Play song in Spotify or Get directions to location in Google Maps or Open document from Onedrive.

    10. Re:And yet I still don't see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typical tech-hating apple.

    11. Re:And yet I still don't see... by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      By local, I meant that the commands are processed locally on the data stored on the device, as opposed to the command AND all relevant data sent to the remote server.

      So yeah, the remote server is still issuing the commands to the device. That's unavoidable. But as long as the actually data is processed locally on the device, that's what I was referring to as 'local'.

      And I can't remember the details now as it's been a long time since I used an android device, but it was something along those lines. It was basically just a voice interface to google search, and wasn't able to do anything that involved data local to the device. I presume they fixed that at some point.

    12. Re:And yet I still don't see... by exomondo · · Score: 1

      By local, I meant that the commands are processed locally on the data stored on the device, as opposed to the command AND all relevant data sent to the remote server.

      What it needs is context and the more context you expect it to have the more information you need to provide. Simple things that are just effectively voice commands need very little context.

      So yeah, the remote server is still issuing the commands to the device. That's unavoidable. But as long as the actually data is processed locally on the device, that's what I was referring to as 'local'.

      I'm not sure how the examples you listed would work any other way.

  3. They can compete in someone else's home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will not have an active internet connected microphone in my home. I keep the Google assistant fully disabled on my OnePlus.

    Voice assistants are a solution looking for a problem.

    1. Re: They can compete in someone else's home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but the magnifier with enough intensity required to find your damn balls doesn't exist yet.

      Today's technology is not advanced enough to be able to find something that is at the pico-quark level.

    2. Re:They can compete in someone else's home by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      I will not have an active internet connected microphone in my home.

      If you have a laptop chances are you already do.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    3. Re:They can compete in someone else's home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's the thing. Neither Apple nor Google cares what you say in your home. You're not that important. Get over it.

    4. Re: They can compete in someone else's home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt employees are directly listening to the feed, but if you think they won't analyze and store that information indefinitely, you're out of your mind. There was already a case of police providing amazon with a subpoena for the echo recordings of a suspect.

  4. It's time for standards support by omnichad · · Score: 2, Funny

    Walled gardens have got to go. There's no reason to not offer standard APIs for these services so that "smart" devices can discover or link to anything without built-in support.

    Seriously, there has yet to be a voice-activated home speaker that will play music that you have stored on a computer. This Siri device is likely closest, since it will probably work with iTunes home sharing, but no support for an SMB share full of music files.

    If you want a device to sit in a home for years, it has to be able to grow and adapt. There is just no place for vendor lock-in here.

    1. Re:It's time for standards support by kamapuaa · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sorry grandpa, but I don't think "ability to link with a samba drive of bootlegged MP3s" is a hot feature that companies are dying to pick up.

      You your self write about a need to "grow and adapt." Maybe it's time for you to ditch your Napster drive and move on to 21st century technology.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    2. Re:It's time for standards support by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Bootlegged MP3's? Because someone can't rip CD's to a perfectly serviceable format? CDs - especially used - are dirt cheap and they make just as good of digital content as native digital as well as serving as their own backup.

      What about legit MP3's purchased from anywhere? I want my iTunes-purchased AACs and Amazon and Google Play purchased MP3's working with any system without uploading them to the cloud. They're already in my house - there's no need to upload them and stream them from outside. And then pay a monthly/yearly hosting fee for the privilege if my library is large enough.

      Samba is just one example. What about DLNA? Even Sony supports that with their consoles, and they love proprietary formats and systems.

    3. Re:It's time for standards support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember CDs! I think I threw away my collection in like 2003 or so. They never had the retro-cool of a vinyl or cassette collection.

    4. Re:It's time for standards support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want a device to sit in a home for years, it has to be able to grow and adapt.

      You just described the "toilet", mankind's greatest invention.

    5. Re: It's time for standards support by Phil06 · · Score: 1

      Walled prison

      --
      "...and yet, I blame society" Duke - Repo Man
    6. Re:It's time for standards support by fermion · · Score: 1
      In fact the services are standard and can link to any device, a hub is needed to convert from the local network to the TCP/IP. Many use ZeeBee. The voice activited smart devices merely supply a link between the devices in the house and the proprietary stack used by Google, Amazon, or maybe Apple.

      The issue is how they monetize the customer. Google is an advertising company, so obviously they are going to advertise, as seen in the controversy over the ads on their Home device. Amazon sells stuff, so they try to position Alexa as a gateway to buy stuff easily. They also have a paid music service, which is what I mostly use Alexa for, which generates income for Amazon. Apple needs to be careful because Apple customers already pay for everything. They have made a lot of missteps in focusing on monthly revenue rather than customer satisfaction. They have gone to a monthly $1 fee for the online service, presumably so the customers always have to have a valid credit card on file. They have made iTunes into a dog of a program, first by bloating it with options for paid videos, and now by making the interface more clutter by focusing on paid streaming service.

      An Apple home assistant could be better if Apple focuses on making it useful for the consumer as opposed to useful for Apple. Amazon and Google can't compete with that because they have to move product. Apple can succeed in that Apple has made consumer products, while the only one making any money off Android is Samsung, and it is unclear if the Amazon fork of Android bring in any direct revenue. I have an Alexa, but I got it cheap on the initial promotion. Certainly would never pay the price Amazon wants for it now,.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    7. Re:It's time for standards support by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      Sorry grandpa, but I don't think "ability to link with a samba drive of bootlegged MP3s" is a hot feature that companies are dying to pick up.

      You your self write about a need to "grow and adapt." Maybe it's time for you to ditch your Napster drive and move on to 21st century technology.

      On the one hand, I agree that the complete lack of a set of products catering to end users who would prefer to limit data usage to the LAN only is troubling. On the other hand, for a whole lot of the population, being able to say "hey Alexa, play 'Crystallize' by Lindsey Sterling", and have it start playing three seconds later, with neither the need for a purchase, nor a pre-ripped CD, nor the experience of using Napster/Kazaa/Limewire, is as close to the perfect experience that music listening is going to get, in context*.

      In practice, as much as I'd love some sort of self-hosted Alexa backend that could understand a few hundred commands or have some sort of software that grants the ability to make my own commands without having to be a software engineer, I also realize that it's a vanishingly small market. Suppose such a thing existed, and could be pointed to my folder full of music files. My tags are good, but not perfect. I have "A", "a", "A feat. B", and "B feat a". If I ask FreeLexa to play 'A', from which sets would it pick? In practice, the Samba share method only makes sense if all the metadata is perfect...and if you have perfect metadata, music is only half the draw anyway.

      *The context is 'having an assistant cater to your immediately desired whim'. The Echo speaker isn't half bad for its size, but for most people, it most certainly fits 'good enough'. For those who have gold-plated cables and $5,000 speakers I can't pronounce, those sorts of setups are for 'active listening', whereas any sort of home assistant scenario is a different story entirely.

    8. Re: It's time for standards support by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      Visit Japan. Ã)

    9. Re:It's time for standards support by Mordaximus · · Score: 1

      This Siri device is likely closest, since it will probably work with iTunes home sharing, but no support for an SMB share full of music files.

      I'm pretty good at maintaining my music library's metadata, not all are. Many have vastly different ways of organizing their music folders. So how pray tell is this mythical device of yours to determine what song you are actually trying to play, and where to find it? Would you not be frustrated if you ask for "Thunderstruck," the device says it cannot find a song by that name, but you can clearly see "ACDC_RE-Track1.mp3" in the folder "to_sort_later" under your SMB share?

      On of the reasons these devices rely on the cloud, is they own the metadata, so it's relatively easy to honour requests. They also know where to find said track to stream it to you.

    10. Re:It's time for standards support by omnichad · · Score: 1

      The issue is how they monetize the customer.

      I prefer the old fashioned way - buying the device itself. I would pay a lot more for a device that's designed to actually do what I want it to do. In fact, most of the home automation devices these connect to follow that pricing model.

    11. Re:It's time for standards support by omnichad · · Score: 1

      They also badly match songs and if your rip is better quality or from a slightly different recording, you get their version anyway. There are songs on Amazon that have album art from a completely different artist.

      You can always use cloud fingerprinting when metadata is missing without actually playing from the cloud. That can be covered whenever the library is indexed. I have a lot of music with more correct metadata where cloud services won't actually be able to find what I ask for.

    12. Re:It's time for standards support by crtreece · · Score: 1

      So how pray tell is this mythical device of yours to determine what song you are actually trying to play, and where to find it?

      If you have anything resembling a sane directory structure, plex can sort and categorize your data, find additional metadata and puts a pretty front end on it. I'm not sure if any of that is open source, but it shows it can be done. IIRC, there is, or was, a service that would scan a file and try to determine appropriate metadata. Add those together, and you're mostly there.

      If all of those options fail, it would be easy enough to have a plugin architecture that allows streaming from the music service of your choice.

      --
      file: .signature not found
    13. Re:It's time for standards support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >...is a hot feature that companies are dying to pick up.

      Ummm but it IS a hot feature consumers are dying to pick up. A physical drive with all my music on it? Perfect!
      A cloud drive with all my music on it? Umm no because it sniffs & tattle-tales if the music is ripped or has been flagged with another person's iTunes account name purchase.

    14. Re:It's time for standards support by exomondo · · Score: 1

      I take your point but the future is leveraging connectivity such that you can have access to all content wherever you are on whatever device you are using with the ability to download for offline access for when you may not have network connectivity (plane ride, camping, etc).

      It's by no means a perfect solution to cover all use cases and is improving over time but it suits the vast majority just fine even now.

    15. Re:It's time for standards support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummm but it IS a hot feature consumers are dying to pick up. A physical drive with all my music on it? Perfect!

      People do not want that, if you think that is what they want then you are wildly out of touch. Just look at the popularity of streaming services over purchases, that isnt being driven by voice assistants but by it being a better solution for the vast majority of people. Who wants to carry around a drive with all their music on it that they have to plug in to whatever music player they want to use all the time? Maybe you do and there is no reason why everybody couldnt do that, but they dont because that is a shitty solution.

      A cloud drive with all my music on it? Umm no because it sniffs & tattle-tales if the music is ripped or has been flagged with another person's iTunes account name purchase.

      But you just made that up and that doesnt actually happen. Again you are out of touch with reality.

  5. What did the old Macs used to say... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Uh, no.

  6. Sounds awesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another home run for Apple

  7. Siri, What does covfefe mean? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Covfefe is Slovenian for prostate fishing.

  8. does anyone really want these speaker devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just seems like a forced thing. we all have digital assistants in our phones already, and mostly no one uses them.

    1. Re:does anyone really want these speaker devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently the people who bought an Amazon Echo or a Google Whateverthefuck do....

      Why? Your guess is as good as mine. Seems idiotic to me.

    2. Re:does anyone really want these speaker devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes , the Echo and Google Home are amazing. Whatever crap apple is "me tooing" with sounds forced.

    3. Re:does anyone really want these speaker devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as a millenial in a shared living space the thought of saying my internet searches out loud so whoever and their girlfriend is in the next room can hear it sounds completely awkward and shitty. are they selling these things to baby boomers or what? i don't get it.

    4. Re:does anyone really want these speaker devices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can see your problem... But then we non-millennials are not googling "hot milf bonobo porn" like you are.

    5. Re: does anyone really want these speaker devices? by nomadic · · Score: 1

      I never used any of them until I got an echo. Always-on voice recognition made it worthwhile for me.

  9. More high tech innovation from Apple! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple leads the way!

  10. Weak lack of vision by Yergle143 · · Score: 1

    Hey Apple produce something of value.
    Remove drudgery:
    1) Fold Laundry
    2) Clean Dishes
    3) Vacuum and dust well (sorry Roomba)
    etc...
    You think the consumer really needs something to play a record for them?

  11. Bauhaus sum this up nicely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's a Spy In The Cab...

  12. Me too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We want to harvest your private conversations too!

  13. Meh...I'm waiting for Sony's version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Comes with Sony RootKit feature.

    1. Re:Meh...I'm waiting for Sony's version by fox171171 · · Score: 1

      Sony's version will be great. "In the last 24 hours, I have detected 18 songs and a movie belonging to Sony. I have no record of your license for this media. You may authorize me to charge your account for these licenses now, or perhaps you would prefer to wait and pay the infringement fee of $2000 later? You have 20 seconds to decide. If you have a physical copy off all of the detected media, please be advised that when the IP enforcement agent arrives to verify them, ensure that you have your original store receipt to confirm license ownership. I can also Google Hari Kari for you."

  14. Suggested "Google Home" slogan by presidenteloco · · Score: 2

    With Google Home, you'll never have to say Siri.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  15. Why do I need a set of speakers ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... when a phone or maybe a tablet is glued to my hand or within a meter pretty much all time? And it has a mic. And to do surround sound right it needs more than one speaker location.

    1. Re:Why do I need a set of speakers ... by fox171171 · · Score: 1

      ... when a phone or maybe a tablet is glued to my hand or within a meter pretty much all time? And it has a mic.

      ...and it is probably listening all the time anyway.

  16. Maybe productivity has peaked by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

    ... with smartphones (as well as time wasting). Until there is a radical breakthrough in technology maybe not much will change. Little things like Apple Pay and this is what we get now. Microsoft is ahead of others even with VR/AR and few people want that.

  17. Because ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

    ... making the wheel rounder ...

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  18. Fuck by backslashdot · · Score: 1

    Why can't wikipedia or the apartment CH e foundation make this technology?

    Make this shit open source. There is no reason WikiMedia and/or a foundation like Mozilla, Raspberry Pi foundation, or Apache can't run this technology. There is no way it would be any more difficult than running Wikipedia. Find it by donations. People would donate! Companies that sell the devices would donate, businesses that get orders through it would donate!

  19. Game Changer! by dohzer · · Score: 1

    This is game changing; innovation at it's finest. Apple always have the next big thing!

  20. Let me guess... by Patent+Lover · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... it's white and has rounded corners.

  21. HA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good luck with siri

  22. I have a Google Home... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that I got at IO this year. It's OK, kind of novelty to play with, but honestly kind of a pain in the ass to actually use. If I'm in a different room than the Home device and want to ask my phone something, I pick it up, say "OK Google", and the phone forwards the request to the Google home device, which tells me the answer, which I can't hear because I'm far away from it.

  23. And who's going to play Siri? by Visarga · · Score: 1

    AI Siri is dumb. Maybe they could get Tim Cook's mom to play Siri. That would work out much better.

  24. Me too! by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

    Even the most ardent Apple supporter has to admit this isn't the best position to start from (not that I think these home automation devices are of any real use).