Slashdot Mirror
Putin Hints At US Election Meddling By 'Patriotically Minded' Russians (nytimes.com)
Two anonymous readers share a report: Shifting from his previous blanket denials, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia said on Thursday that "patriotically minded" private Russian hackers could have been involved in cyberattacks last year to help the presidential campaign of Donald J. Trump (Editor's note: the link could be paywalled; alternative source). While Mr. Putin continued to deny any state role, his comments to reporters in St. Petersburg were a departure from the Kremlin's previous position: that Russia had played no role whatsoever in the hacking of the Democratic National Committee and that, after Mr. Trump's victory, the country had become the victim of anti-Russia hysteria among crestfallen Democrats. Raising the possibility of attacks by what he portrayed as free-spirited Russian patriots, Mr. Putin said that hackers "are like artists" who choose their targets depending how they feel "when they wake up in the morning."
Oh, come on. Nobody is fooled by this, are you? Of course when Putin gave his cyberwarfare people their marching orders, they all knew that if caught they'd be disavowed by the State. Standard operating procedure. Every nation on the planet that has covert intelligence organizations does the same exact thing. Nothing to see here..
And yet it's here, on the front page of Slashdot. Who is meddling with whom?
Can they all get the eff off of slashdot now?
The unraveling of the denials begins. This is the exact same process Putin used when Russia stole Crimea from Ukraine. For months Putin denied Russian troops had been sent in to steal the land. Denial after denial was given.
Then, miraculously, Putin admitted he ordered Russian troops to seize the land. The excuse he used was those Russian troops were "helping" the Crimean sefl-defense forces. And by helping he means the Russian troops were doing the dirty work.
So now the excuse of "patriotic" Russians doing the hacking is being tossed out. What patriotism? Is he now admitting they were helping Trump win the election? That would be an interesting admission since he's denied any Russian meddling in the election despite the overwhelming evidence.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
So basically he's saying that they are the Russian version of Anonymous? No wonder why the Democrats are so pissed off.
Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts.
That invaded Ukraine and Georgia. Nothing to do with their government at all. Nothing.
Seriously Putin's word as a man is a joke
The attacks you say were brought on by "patriotic russians" crestfallen by the disappointed democrats who lost the election, disregards the actual timeline. The hacking occurred prior to the election. Unless more is ongoing of course. And the Democrats though Hillary was going to win by a landslide.
Even though I am a strong fiscal conservative and voted against Hillary, Russian interference in the US election process is the same as any other hacking efforts aimed with malicious intent, and is clearly illegal. You assassinate your political rivals. Neither that nor the hacking are acceptable. Open bad mouthing in the press, sure, but that's political discourse. Informed voters can evaluate the source as well as the content. The current sourceless allegations against Trump, they could just as easily be attributed to "patriotic russians" who might be disappointed about the Presidents support of Ukrainian interests. The acceptance you show for the hackers within the russia just shows that, along with your other actions, in Ukraine for example, that under Putin the russia is a rogue state that needs to be marginalized.
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
The only people who still believe that Putin did not try to interfere in any way with the U.S. election are the same people who believed that Clinton ran a pedophile ring from the basement of a pizza restaurant.
`Nuff said.
by Americans.
So, billionaires paid Russian hackers (at a discounted rate from American hackers, and not in danger of the FBI getting them) to get the data....
Don't you mean "the failing New York Times"? Do you not quote your own orange clown in chief? Are you an incompetently programmed bot?
Fake News? Did, or did not Putin say this?
What about the Reuters article link that was provided? Is that also fake news?
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
And of course exposing the misdeeds of the RNC would be the work of American traitors.
Putin takes a page from Trump's book and trolls .... name your own favorite set of blathering idiots ....
Caution: Contents under pressure
Not in my book. Exposing wrongdoing is a good thing, no matter who it embarrasses.
Unlike the troll earlier, I'll assume this NY Times, and Reuters news is not fake news, and that Putin said what is reported.
Now the question becomes, WHY did Putin say this?
The conclusion that seems obvious to me is that:
1. Putin realizes that something is about to be exposed to the bright light of day
2. He is doing his job of shifting the blame away from the state
At this point, IMO, it does not even pass the laugh test to suggest Russia did not interfere in the US presidential election. Now if I held the contrary opinion (that Russia did not interfere in election) then a possible conclusion could be: Putin is putting out disinformation for some reason in order to interfere with Trump's administration. But then I would recognize that Trump is already interfering with the operation of the Trump administration just fine, without Putin's help. The bumbling fumbling orange clown circus doesn't need any help to be impotently ineffective.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Having visited Russia and exposed to Russian culture and so on, I actually totally believe him for once!
But what is more amusing to me is how this statement is basically telling us that even Putin is scared with how horrible Trump is for the planet... ;-)
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...
I mean, let's suppose that somehow, actual evidence that was somehow incontrovertible showed that there was meddling... and let's even further say that they managed to identify the people responsible, and were able to bring them to court, where they were appropriately and justly tried and sentenced for the crime.
Would that really change anything, though? I'm betting it wouldn't.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Go a week without social media and those "news letters" that email used to call spam and realize the world will keep spinning without those influencing social Darwinism to do it for you. The world is perfectly fine because you are an accident, a byproduct of chance improving upon a series entropic moments. Without a perception for those influence, you are only left with your own reality. Just be you and do you for once and not what those that thrive off of uncertainty want you to be. I can assure you 99% of pressing matters only requires 1% to intervene.
Trump acts a lot like him, except he's a bit more amplified and a lot less polished.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
You might want to look up the definition of Treason in the Constitution.
Note that "disagreeing with an Anonymous Coward" isn't included....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
This is just a rotation scheme. They take the US elections hacking team, which successfully disabled up to 50 percent of all voting in key counties in swing states (hint: use paper ballots, vote by mail, and non-networked optical scanners if you don't want to be hacked), and rotate them to the Ukranian, EU hacking team, while replacing the US team with the ones hacking the EU and Ukraine.
Keeps them on their toes.
No, you don't live in a Democracy.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Most of the information revealed during the election season showed how Bernie was unfairly treated by Hillary in cahoots with the DNC.
Bernie should be more angry at Hillary and the DNC than Hillary is about the Russians.
No matter - I don't care who broke into Hillary's mail server or Podesta's emails. Hackers did not force them to write those emails.
Hillary is pissed that we found out how bad she really is.
Finally, did the Russians hack any voting machines or manipulate any vote counts? If not, then all they did was expose how shitty a candidate Hillary was.
The phrase election hacking (meddling/w.e) is agenda driven, as it implies there was tampering with the election process or results. If this is election hacking, then so is recording a private conversation and releasing it to affect results. Just because it may have affected voters minds (because it informed them) doesn't mean we need to add negative connotations to them. Let's reserve that for tampering with the actual election process.
Like stacking the deck against popular candidates so that your candidate can win.
How is it treasonous?
IF Russia "hacked" into DNC emails (remember, as far as we know the "hack" was a fucking phishing link that yielded a certain someone's iCloud password), and did so in a state-sponsored way (such that you could say Russia did it, and not Russians did it), you then have to look at what they did with that access.
All they did was reveal the truth. Notice how the media and the DNC and Hillary herself kick and scream about how they were exposed. They do this because they have absolutely no defense for what was exposed - the fucking truth about how the DNC is corrupt, how Clinton is corrupt, and how the media was influencing the debates and election for Hillary.
If you want to call someone a traitor and throw out claims of treason, then look at the DNC and the US media. They were the ones tampering with the election. Russia is merely accused of exposing it. And keep in mind, we have been shown Z E R O evidence. This is on the level of claiming that North Korea hacked Sony for a shitty Seth Rogen & James Franco movie.
And no, I didn't vote for Trump.
American democracy was attacked when the secret ethical misconduct of the DNC was revealed to the public. In order to preserve American democracy, misdeeds must remain guarded and kept from the public eye.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
+1 Correct.
Obama would have never lost due to Russian meddling. He was a much stronger candidate with a likable personality and almost no corruption under his belt.
No corruption? You realize his political roots are in Chicago, right?
3. He wants to be seen as a bigger player in world affairs than he is.
4. He likes watching the western media and the Democrats chase their tails. Get 3 pigs and paint the numbers 1, 2, and 4 on them and let them go in the school yard.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
I'm pretty sure patriotic Americans like the Tea Partiers have been trying to expose the misdeeds of the RNC for a decade. Trump finally did it.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
The Chicago of today isn't the chicago of the past.
You wouldn't happen to be a Southron would you? I've noticed that Southrons LOVE to pick on Northern cities (they did that during the civil rights movement as well), even though the nepotism and plutocracy in the Neo-Confederate Plutocratic party runs deep
As for your item 3, what would be gained? If anything, Putin would lose respect. He would look like Trump trying to puff himself up as more important than he actually is. - - - if item 3 held any water.
As for item 4, I happen to be a believer that where there is smoke, there is fire. What we have already is a conflagration. So what would be gained by Putin blowing in a little more smoke?
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
The only city in the USA that can comes close to Chicago for corruption is New Orleans. You can deny it all you want, doesn't change a thing.
What % of Illinois governors end up in prison?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Item4: What he gains: Credulous fools, like you, believe what they want to believe for longer. Duh.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
If you read the original article, it is linked to another article with a video of him saying something similar ... though the NYTimes author definitely took a cut up video and spun it to fit their agenda: https://www.rferl.org/a/russia...
Russia, Ukraine, and the rest of East Europe have been a kind of internet's wild west since the beginning of the web popularity. When credit card numbers or email account passwords are stolen by thousands or millions, chances are good that they will be traded in the murky chatrooms among those east Europeans. Russia still has the best torrent and tor sites. "Hactivism" is still a common phenomenon in Russia, just recently somebody broke into a bunch of Kremlin official email accounts and leaked their communications.
Sadly, the above post is typical of modern slashdot, where group think and unsubstantiated attacks are modded up as "smart.".
Statement 1: Weak and Ineffective US: This statement is founded on the premise that the United States is somehow weak and ineffective. There is no reasons given to back this claim, and non that could be possibly substantiated. What exactly do you suppose as made the U.S. weaker? Is it the call to increase U.S. industry by undoing horribly lopsided trade deals that drain our wealth? Is the U.S. made weaker by asking NATO members to actually contribute to their defense at a proportion to the GDP as ours? Is it made weaker by asking the press to cover both political parties with the same zeal, instead of cheerleading for one? I am confused by how weaker?
Statement 2: Illiterate President. As is well known, he has ran a successful multibillion dollar corporation. Although he did start with wealth, he increased it several times. A good analog would be Elon Musk, turning a small company Zip2 into larger ones through sales and mergers. Success at these levels is rarely the work of an illiterate. Disagreeing with someone does not make the illiterate, but it if you think it does that means you are intellectually close to one.
Furthermore, we know he graduated from Fordham and Penn with and economics degree. We do not know his GPA. In contrast, the previous president had failing grades at a private high school (read his autobiography) yet somehow got admitted to an Ivy league school, and his grades are also not known, but was not reported to be a great student. Did you hold him to the same criticism?
Alienate the press: CNN actually gave his opponent the questions for the debate. The coverage on the other networks were laughably biased, with numerous other errors and gaffs made. The press in the U.S. is no longer the press, but an arm of the democrat party. This is dangerous and tragic and should not be applauded. The press should be about uncovering truth, not suppressing it. Speaking of which... The whole Russia is blame part of this thread. Lets be clear about what happened. Hillary Clinton and the DNC conspired to fix the democrat primary. They controlled the media, the timing of events, and funding to make Berny Sanders seem like a buffoon and have no chance. In all honesty, he had drawn many of the same concussions about the system being corrupt as Mr. Trump, but offered different solutions. The press knowingly helped burry the story of the unfair primary election.
The Russian hackers helped bring to light these issues. Through them, we learned that the Sanders supporters were denied a legitimate shot. The Russians did not report anything that was untrue. Do you understand that? The Russians were the force of truth and light in this election. For that, we in the U.S. should be ashamed.
In this thread and others like it today, people are acting like the Russians made up horribly untruths and it cost Hillary the election. For some reason of nothing less than extreme stupidity, there are posters who conveniently seem to forget what the so called fake news was, and why it worked. Hillary attempted to fix the fucking election, and thankfully, despite a biased media, she got caught. The people who got cheated were angry, and did not vote. Its that simple.
So, instead of feeling this false righteousness because you hate the current president for no particularly good reason, look in the mirror. Please stop the bullshit character assassinations. Try to grow up, and hold all politicians to a high standard, instead of just one.
"Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
This is like claiming that anything that New York Times prints about China is the official position of the US State Department position. Can we stop pretending that the USSR (dissolved 25 years ago) is the same thing as RF? There is plenty of commercial interests in RF which are independent of the state. There aren't many which oppose the state (they do quash political opposition ruthlessly), but they have plenty of non-state commercial actors. If actors who are not affiliated with the Russian Federation, but who reside there happened to inject themselves into the US Democratic primaries (and that's a huge "if" with, so far, no evidence whatsoever for it), that's not "Russian" involvement. There is no Soviet Russia. People born after USSR fell apart are now old enough to have graduated college and old enough to rent a car (ie, they are over 25).
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Putin's saying this is explicit meddling in US domestic affairs, intended to further undermine American confidence in its electoral system. It is a comment intended to make people doubt the legitimacy of their elected government, a doubt which weakens the country.
Donald Trump is the legitimately elected President. He lacks a popular mandate but is still the legitimate president until he is removed, he resigns, he dies, or his term ends.
Yes, by all means, let's do more to secure voting from electronic attack and to recognize fake news and help people learn the difference. Let's do more to reform our electoral system so that it functions more intelligently and is better representative of the will of the people. But don't let transparent propaganda efforts distract you into undermining your own government.
Real lawyers write in C++
American democracy was attacked when the secret ethical misconduct of the DNC was revealed to the public. In order to preserve American democracy, misdeeds must remain guarded and kept from the public eye.
Or, you know, equally reveal misconduct from both sides. That would work too.
As for your item 3, what would be gained? If anything, Putin would lose respect.
"Russia big and stronk. Russian patriots make foolish Amerikanskis dance to tune of Russian bear heh heh heh!" Puts fear into enemies, and gives him support at home.
As for item 4, I happen to be a believer that where there is smoke, there is fire. What we have already is a conflagration. So what would be gained by Putin blowing in a little more smoke?
Depends on whether or not there really is a conflagration. I happen to...not see any conflagration. But I kind of don't mind watching the Democrats and the media run around in circles like idiots. Screaming about Russia prevents them from actually doing something to fix their dumpster fire of a party. So I'm perfectly happy to keep the Russia narrative alive. Similar to the perpetual freak-out over Trump's tax returns. If I had Trump's ear I would advise him to never release his tax returns, because it makes his enemies focus on that nonsense instead of the productive tactic of figuring out how to get votes from the white working class again.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
My interpretation was that Russia intends to continue harassing non-allies, and they've figured it's time to have a better story. So just like the green men weren't Russian-controlled troops, but patriotic volunteers, the story on hackers will be the same.
I put more time and effort into defeating liberals than I have on anything else in a long long time.
The efforts of others and myself killed Hillary's chances.
And guess what? We won by the skin of our teeth!
FIFY
I voted for Trump, but you have to understand that he won by a narrow margin in the key states he took from the blue team. While historic, this was a skin of your teeth win for him and we'd do well to remember that.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
So, we're supposed to ignore Obama's and Clinton's helping the Russians?
We have Obama on record: ... the 1980s, they're now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War's been over for 20 years,"
"Gov. Romney, I'm glad that you recognize that al-Qaida is a threat, because a few months ago when you were asked what's the biggest geopolitical threat facing America, you said Russia, not al-Qaida. You said Russia
Also:
In March 2012, at a summit in South Korea, Obama was caught in a "hot mic" incident. Without realizing he could be overheard, Obama told Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that he would have more ability to negotiate with the Russians about missile defense after the November election.
"On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved, but it’s important for him to give me space," Obama was heard telling Medvedev, apparently referring to incoming Russian president Vladimir Putin.
"Yeah, I understand," Medvedev replied.
Obama interjected, saying, "This is my last election. After my election, I have more flexibility."
Mind you, this is from a sitting President.
Then there is Hillary Clinton:
- Hillary Clinton approved the transfer of 20 percent of U.S. uranium to Russia and nine investors in the deal funneled $145 million to the Clinton Foundation.
- Bill Clinton bagged $500,000 for a Moscow speech paid for by a Kremlin-backed bank while Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State.
- Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman’s Joule energy company bagged $35 million from Putin’s Rusnano.
- Clinton Foundation chatter with State Dept. on Uranium Deal with Russia.
- Hillary Clinton hid $2.35 million in secret donations from Ian Telfer, the head of Russia’s uranium company.
All of this while Hillary Clinton was the active Secretary of State.
We know for sure that these all happened. It's undeniable. If Russia is a bad as the left claims, then why aren't they also going after Obama and Clinton?
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
If there is nothing to it, and I believe that there is something to it, for longer, then how is that a benefit to Putin? Why would Putin care what I, individually, think? I don't think Putin's statement would make be believe it for longer, because Putin's statement will be forgotten by the time the investigations are concluded.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Russia interferes in the internal politics of other countries as much as the USA does.
End of story, and no one is surprised, they all thought it was common knowledge.
Like how, as a musician, I wake up every day with music in my head... but instead it's networks to compromise? Bullshit.
This is like OJ's book... "if they did do it, they were just patriotically minded citizens that weren't directed by the government and were doing whatever they might have done purely on a whim." Bullshit.
Sell your bullshit somewhere else.
On a completely unrelated note - I had to insert HTML line breaks? What in the hell kind of arcane wizardry is that? Line breaks are not sufficient?
I see my shadow changing, stretching up and over me...
Like the "volunteers" that invaded Ukraine
Let's say, for the sake of argument, you are correct when you claim "Hillary attempted to fix the fucking election, and thankfully, despite a biased media, she got caught. The people who got cheated were angry, and did not vote."
I'm not buying it but some might. The reason is, the Clinton campaign simply did what it took to win. Are you suggesting that Trump didn't do what it took to win? That every successful political campaign in history didn't do what it took to win?
Put all that aside and accept your premise as correct.
You are still giving support, succor and approval to the criminal act of hacking. If this hacking was state sponsored, then this act rises to the level of state aggression. It's a hostile act by a foreign state.
This is why your position fails. Also, stop acting like you care so much about the Sanders campaign. I very much doubt you care now or cared then about the Sanders campaign.
Next let's look at your dismissal of the character and governance failures of the Trump administration. By your own statements, if we were to "grow up, and hold all politicians to a high standard, instead of just one", you wouldn't dismiss criticism of Trump as a "bullshit character assassination".
Instead, you would be discussing this as "an appropriate and relevant response to Trump administration words, actions and behavior. It is important consequences for important people and important events."
Character assassination indeed! No, you are engaged in finding any excuse for irresponsible and indefensible behavior. You are an enabler for incompetence, greed and hypocrisy of the highest order.