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Videotapes Are Becoming Unwatchable As Archivists Work To Save Them (npr.org)

Most videotapes were recorded in the 1980s and '90s, when video cameras first became widely available to Americans. Most of those VHS cassettes have become unwatchable, and others are quickly dying, too. Research suggests that tapes like this aren't going to live beyond 15 to 20 years. NPR has a story about a group of archivists and preservationists who are increasingly scrambling through racks of tape decks, oscilloscopes, vector scopes and wave-form monitors to ensure a quality transfer from analog to digital. From the article: Here's how magnetic tapes work: Sounds and images are magnetized onto strips of tape, using the same principle as when you rub a piece of metal with a magnet and it retains that magnetism. But when you take the magnet away, the piece of metal slowly loses its magnetism -- and in the same way, the tape slowly loses its magnetic properties. "Once that magnetic field that's been imprinted into that tape has kind of faded too much, you won't be able to recover it back off the tape after a long period of time," says Howard Lukk, director of standards at the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers. Lukk estimates there are billions of tapes sitting around. There are plenty of services out there to digitize tapes -- local stores, online services, even public libraries and universities. Some services are free; some cost a lot of money. The thing is, many people don't realize their tapes are degrading. And some who do know -- even members of the XFR Collective (the aforementioned group), like Mary Kidd -- haven't even gotten around to their own tapes. Digitizing also takes a lot of troubleshooting. Each transfer the Collective does requires them to play the entire tape through while they sit there and watch it.

125 comments

  1. Unsurprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Most movies from the 80's and 90's were unwatchable to begin with.

    1. Re:Unsurprising by Luthair · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is basically true for every decade. Nostalgia is the only reason people remember things fondly.

    2. Re: Unsurprising by orbit500 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Even nostalgia isn't what is used to be. Sigh.

    3. Re: Unsurprising by Beau1080p · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      Hobgoblins, anyone?

    4. Re:Unsurprising by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Yebbut, think of all the VHS porn, man!
      Someone needs to take matters into their own hands and start digitizing.

    5. Re:Unsurprising by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Chuck Norris tapes will last forever.

    6. Re:Unsurprising by Kjella · · Score: 2

      This is basically true for every decade. Nostalgia is the only reason people remember things fondly.

      And you can remember the bad things in a good way, without really rose coloring it. Like most people can look at a photo of themselves from 20 years and go "OMG we look so ridiculous" and laugh at it not "OMG we look so lame" and be embarrassed. I can reminisce about the BBS days and how slow the modems were isn't rose tinted, it's perhaps even exaggerated. A lot of these "memorably bad" moments are like that, you hold on to a few emotions and as the details fade you only remember that you were horribly, horribly cold or really, really embarrassed or whatever. And yet with enough distance it becomes a story to laugh at.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    7. Re:Unsurprising by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      Yebbut, think of all the VHS porn, man! Someone needs to take matters into their own hands and start digitizing.

      Exactly. Traci Lords isn't getting any younger...

    8. Re: Unsurprising by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Even /. disagreements aren't what they used to be!

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    9. Re:Unsurprising by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Traci Lords isn't getting any younger

      You'd like that, you little pervert, wouldn't you? ;)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    10. Re:Unsurprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      take matters into their own hands

      I see what you did there.

    11. Re:Unsurprising by SuperDre · · Score: 1

      funny, as I still think that most movies from the 80's and 90's are way better than any crap that is put out today, and funny enough a lot of it are remakes which are worse then their originals.

  2. Overly alarmist by sh00z · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Just a scare to get you to spend money on something you don't need. I just watched some VHS tapes I recorded (EP Mode) in the summer of 1994, and they're fine, I've got audio cassettes recorded a decade earlier that sound the same as the day I recorded them (and in at least one case, better than the digital download of the same radio show via iTunes).

    1. Re:Overly alarmist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It really depends on the media. VHS went through the same "let's have the absolute cheapest manufacturer produce everything" industrial suicide that the floppy disk went through.

      Remember in 1993 you could go to the store, get a nice floppy disk for about 80 cents apiece, and it was hard as a rock and could be used to dig your way out of a jail cell? One year later, suddenly floppy disks are 20 cents apiece, it was amazing - except suddenly we were losing all the data on our disks and the heads on floppy drivers were becoming bad enough to damage even the real disks. Why didn't we make a return to the stable, quality disk for all of our data needs? Because we thought we were moving on with ZIP drives and CD-Rs.

      VHS cassettes went through the same thing a few years later. All of a sudden they weighed about half as much. Nobody cared, they were cheaper at the time.

      Our older cassettes are going to greatly outlast our most recent ones.

    2. Re:Overly alarmist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My tapes are all fine too - I have about 500 VHS tapes of off-air recordings. All the ones I looked at last month are fine, about ten, I've no reason to think any of the others are degrading either.

    3. Re:Overly alarmist by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I'm wondering whether the problem is VHS was always shitty to begin with, so people are coming across video tapes, playing them, saying "My god, this is awful! The color is all over the place, and smudged, and the image is blurry! And occasionally the screen starts jumping!", and not realizing that this is because VHS was between half and a quarter of the resolution/quality of broadcast NTSC, and was particularly sensitive to recording quality problems.

      There's a reason we all jumped on DVD when it came out, despite it lacking a recording ability. No, it wasn't for the ability to select chapters.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:Overly alarmist by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      VHS progressed.

      The market simply didnt buy in. You've probably never heard of digital VHS but not only was it a thing, it was better than DVD (at least in quality, but tape is tape) and basically came out at the same time that DVD was really taking off. The market went a different direction for its own reasons. Tape was dead as a market-leading solution not because of a race to the bottom but instead because it continued to be tape.

      Cassette tapes come in different qualities, so do VHS tapes, and so did floppies.

      You were simply a cheapskate.

      Even records aka "albums" came out in different qualities. Often the first run of an album was put on cheaper material and if it was selling well only then would they put it on quality vinyl for subsequent runs.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    5. Re:Overly alarmist by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      The first VHS was based on regular broadcast standards so color information isn't given much of the signal bandwidth at all

      Remember that broadcast color data was super-imposed onto the old standard black and white signal in a way that remained compatible for both color and black and white devices, both ways. Clever solution but at a cost: color not so good.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    6. Re:Overly alarmist by sydbarrett74 · · Score: 1

      It depends on the brand of tape used in both cases. You probably used something of decent quality like Maxell or TDK. If Billy Bob Smith recorded his son's fifth birthday on some bargain-basement brand he got at the local SuperValu, he's probably SOL. The magnetised flakes have probably long since become separated from the backing material, and he'll have to shell out a lot to retrieve anything usable.

      --
      'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
  3. "let's go to the tape!" by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    my sports pet peeve

  4. Unwatchable by maestroX · · Score: 1

    VHS is unwatchable once you are accustomed to HD

    1. Re:Unwatchable by Lucas123 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's the same as going back to a cathode ray television after having watched something on a 1080p flat screen.

      Many years ago, when I bought my first flatscreen TV, I gave my old (but very high end and not so old) Sony CR TV set to a friend. About four months later, I went over his house to watch a game and I was like, "Dude, what did you do to my old TV? The picture looks like crap."

      That's how it's always looked.

      I just sat there stunned. And, it really opened my eyes to the improvement between low-def and high-def. We're definitely spoiled today.

    2. Re:Unwatchable by Luthair · · Score: 2

      They were always unwatchable, we just didn't have other options.

    3. Re:Unwatchable by pr0fessor · · Score: 2

      I find a lot of new movies especially in the horror genre to be unwatchable compared to vhs. I know you know the type I'm talking about where it's supposedly a record of cell phone camera, security cameras, and camcorders cut together.

    4. Re:Unwatchable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or even NTSC.

    5. Re:Unwatchable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but most of the movies and shows are unwatchable because they are just unwatchable.

    6. Re:Unwatchable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It's the same as going back to a cathode ray television after having watched something on a 1080p flat screen. "

      Plenty of CRTs had a flat face and were 1080...

    7. Re:Unwatchable by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Because then, like, why the fuck did you spend that money?

      Because 3D!

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    8. Re:Unwatchable by xession · · Score: 2

      Honestly I've been mostly disappointed in the quality of large flat panel displays. Large LCDs are great because because they are thin but CRTs have a certain quality to them that is unparalleled in any other display tech right now. CRTs are both soft and sharp at the same time because the phosphor element density on a CRT screen can be insanely dense and independent of the input or output resolution for the display. Now, when considering the electronics in aging CRTs, especially cheap television varieties, yeah, just like any other cheap crap, they look like cheap crap. But the higher end CRT units found in computer monitors, are still mostly unsurpassed in numerous aspects of image quality and it makes me a bit sad that the technology was pretty much entirely abandoned. Basically like going from well cut vinyl records to often poorly processed cassette tapes, maybe more convenient but generally inferior.

    9. Re:Unwatchable by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      You just had a crappy CRT TV. I had an HD CRT RPT. The picture was incredible. So good that when it went out after 10 years, I seriously had issues adapting to any of the TVs available. LCD was utter crap. LED (LCD) were a little better, but even at 240Hz still had seriously annoying glitches, which were only marginally removed with lots of calibration effort. Plasmas were great, provided you didn't miss the Kuro (I did, mine died about 2 months after the last of the Kuro clearances, and any Kuro still available was running original release prices) and the rest of the plasma field was, well, not so awesome. A couple of years later, when the ZT60 series of plasmas came out, it was finally back to watching a decent picture. It's taken another 4 years, and finally TV tech looks to be matching or possibly exceeding plasma's picture quality with OLED, and possibly QLED, although both are just crossing the top tier pricing.

      FWIW, Sony CRTs always sucked badly. That trinitron mesh always looked wrong with those "rectangular" pixels, and the larger CRT sizes with their seams were absolutely distracting.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    10. Re:Unwatchable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still have my 32" Trinitron VEGA HD, works great at 720 coming off of the computer for movies. It's a heavy sucker, though, 150# of a wide and front-heavy unwieldy box.

    11. Re:Unwatchable by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 2

      I'm keeping an old high-end 4:3-format 28" SD CRT around for retro gaming. It is a bit silly, since it's like 90 lbs and takes up an unreasonable amount of space, but it makes old-school games look So. Fucking. Good.

      It's a B&O BeoVision MX 8000, with one of the best CRT's Philips ever made (none of that flat-front nonsense), two full-RGB SCART inputs and all the picture adjustments directly available from a menu, instead of having to take off the back and fiddly around with a screwdriver. And of course the motorized stand, which is silly, but neat.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    12. Re:Unwatchable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All CRTs suffer from convergence issues. They can look okay with the old definition video when properly tuned, but after a few weeks the guns no long align and the picture will start to look crap. It starts in the corners and gets worse. It can take three hours to correctly tune a large CRT. Based on the cost / time to perform the operation, the CRT's poor technology effectively killed its own quality, and only a few myopic zealots continue to claim what shit they're looking at is great.

    13. Re:Unwatchable by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      It's apparent you never owned a quality CRT of any type. Mine was easy enough to calibrate, took about 30 min the first time. After a few months, did it again, and it only took about 15 min, because minimum adjustments were necessary. After that, checked it initially every 6 months, then every year, as the calibration required so little adjustment it wasn't worth bothering with even for the 5 min it took to check. This was for 1080i content. The 1080P LCD based sets with their ghosting, banding, and blocking artifacts just didn't compare, and most comparative PQ plasmas (just Kuros really) cost a small fortune. Now, what isn't great with CRTs is that they weigh a ton (mine was over 300#) and use enough power to make even old plasmas look downright thrifty, and they were HUGE. My 55" was close to 5ft tall and over 2 feet deep. The replacement uses 5" of depth including wall mounting hardware.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    14. Re:Unwatchable by bad-badtz-maru · · Score: 1

      Plasma TVs were a happy medium, although they're NLA now too.

    15. Re:Unwatchable by HideyoshiJP · · Score: 1

      It's about matching the right content. For example, a lot of my old SD anime from eons ago looks like shit on my 1080p ultrawide display. When I send the signal to my HD CRT, it looks fantastic.

  5. Had an original The Beatles recording on a reel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in the garage from '63. Went to play it and nothing. Zero. About died. Probably should have been shot.

    1. Re:Had an original The Beatles recording on a reel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too many variables to say what went wrong there. 50 years of improper storage will kill anything. Humidity, heat swings, mold...

  6. Easy fix! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Here's how magnetic tapes work: Sounds and images are magnetized onto strips of tape, using the same principle as when you rub a piece of metal with a magnet and it retains that magnetism. But when you take the magnet away, the piece of metal slowly loses its magnetism -- and in the same way, the tape slowly loses its magnetic properties.

    Sounds like we just need to put a magnet next to these so they refresh their magnetic fields.

    1. Re:Easy fix! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just a magnet, it needs to be a changing magnetic field. That way the poles switch back and forth like a swing and become stronger through the resonance effect.

    2. Re:Easy fix! by mnemotronic · · Score: 2

      Here's how magnetic tapes work ...

      I can tell we're in a strange new world when someone has to explain to a technical audience how magnetic recording works. I grew up playing with my dads's tape recorder. I ended up in the disc drive biz and spent 30+ years watching domains get smaller and closer together. Everyone just knew how it worked. I wonder how many tech-savvy slashdotters have seen a 3 1/2 floppy drive or a cassette tape outside of a museum.

      Run along kids. The old man is starting to mumble and drool on himself.

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
  7. VHS Cassettes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I doubt the world will come to an end if Uncle Bud's videos of the Grand Canyon are lost. The really important work is being done on the Quad and Ampex-C tapes made in the 1950s through 1990s. Add to the EIA-J and Umatic formats, even Beta-SP, and there is an awful lot of important video to digitize.

  8. This sounds like a great job for machine learning by Headw1nd · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't this be a decent project for a machine learning solution? It sound like a tedious job that requires a comparison between two inputs and correction based on what was observed.

    Also to echo some skepticism, I've listened to music reels from the 60s and they don't seem significantly degraded. Is video more fragile?

  9. Deck maintenance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Be sure to periodically clean the entire tape path, lubricate capstan and roller bearings, and demagnetize your tape heads! It's often forgotten, and very, very important .. especially when moving lots of tapes (especially those of dubious origins) through the machine.

    1. Re:Deck maintenance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, unless you are talking about a Quadruplex or VTR machine... How can anyone do that on a VHS deck?

    2. Re:Deck maintenance by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Yeah... you know what? I'll stick to digital files, thank you.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    3. Re:Deck maintenance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, remove 4 screws, remove cover, done.

      You need to hang out at a Maker Space, or something similar, that simple procedure was too obvious a solution not to figure out on your own.

    4. Re:Deck maintenance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds absolutely insane. How can you access all these parts with the mechanism in the resting position? How can you demagnetize VIDEO HEADS??? This is completely bonkers advice, and in my experience the people at maker spaces are well intentioned, but very lacking in the technical field.

      If I saw some wizard waving a reel-to-reel head demagnetizer over a VCR's drum, I'd quickly turn around and leave that place.

      Just for an audio reel-to-reel, you already need serious chops to do a good job at what you describe, a VCR is just out of reach of the kind of weekend hacker that hangs out at maker spaces...

      Please point to a video of this "simple procedure", with before-and-after analysis of the VCR.

      And I don't mean "I dusted off the top and removed a dead spider from the dew sensor".

      Show me someone doing all your steps to a non-working machine and making it work.

      It's a simple procedure, so it should be easy.

    5. Re:Deck maintenance by SuperDre · · Score: 1

      There used to be special tapes for that, that did most of the cleaning and demagnitizing, but it's always better to let a REAL professional clean the heads manually.
      But yeah, I guess mostly it will be due to bad/old/dirty heads and not really the tape itself (ofcourse there is always an exception as people don't always store the tapes in the best places, I saw someone who actually put the tapes on their speakerset and wondered why the tapes got bad).

  10. I have Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition on VHS by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    >> Videotapes Are Becoming Unwatchable

    I have Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition on VHS. That was nearly unwatchable the first time through after the Lucasizing it got...so nothing lost, right?

  11. All that porn... by Alejux · · Score: 3, Funny

    Will be lost, in time. Like tears in the rain...

    1. Re:All that porn... by SeaFox · · Score: 2

      Those aren't raindrops falling on your face...

    2. Re:All that porn... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      www.yourbrainonporn.com

      You might want to seriously consider stopping looking at pornography.

    3. Re:All that porn... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not rain..... Ron

  12. Best news all day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Crappy old VHS tapes are becomming unwatchable (giving us more time to stream 4k content that is actually current).

    That's the best news I've heard all day.

  13. Visionary by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 0

    Jean-Michel Jarre was a visionary and predicted this problem. That's why one of his early work will never fade. The protection is built-in into the title itself!

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
    1. Re:Visionary by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      You muffed up the link.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    2. Re:Visionary by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      You mean Slashdot's lack of UTF-8 support muffed up the link.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  14. Grumpy old man moment: by netsavior · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Let it die. We are terrified of letting the archive filter itself out, but really it is ok to let a billion VHS tapes go.

    I think one of the real dangers of the digital age is that we are so worried about losing memories, we are afraid to make them.

    Painstakingly archiving every detail of life really makes for a shitty life.

    I know I sound like a curmudgeon, but there it is.

    1. Re:Grumpy old man moment: by djrobxx · · Score: 1

      > Painstakingly archiving every detail of life really makes for a shitty life.

      That's exactly what I think whenever I go to a concert, and see people trying to record the performance. Like they're ever going to watch that shaky, horrible video with shitty audio. Meanwhile they're missing the live performance they paid so dearly to go see.

    2. Re:Grumpy old man moment: by LunaticTippy · · Score: 2

      They don't really care about experiencing the concert. They primarily care about seeing other peoples response to them seeing the concert. So they post video of them at the concert, video of the concert, etc. to get their true desire.

      I'm fairly sure plenty of those people are doing gig work, posting to someone elses feed for a fee to make it appear that Bartiford was at the festival.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    3. Re:Grumpy old man moment: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a valid point, especially re: the concert example in replies. Nothing more ridiculous than seeing an audience full of smartphone screens being held up, blocking the view for all (including those smartphones doing the recording - ha!).

      But, I also like this counterpoint: https://xkcd.com/1314/

    4. Re:Grumpy old man moment: by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

      They don't really care about experiencing the concert.

      Wouldn't that, however, assume there being only one way to "experience" a concert, or other event? Considering how little work it takes to use certain recording mediums, you can just aim, while focusing your eyes on the show, and listening/looking at the visuals, so even if there were one way of "experiencing" it, you could still theoretically do it. (ALL strictly IMO, of course).

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
    5. Re:Grumpy old man moment: by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Let it die. We are terrified of letting the archive filter itself out, but really it is ok to let a billion VHS tapes go.

      I'd disagree. I'll agree that 90% of everything is crap, but there is still that 10% that will stand the test of time. Due to the legal issues around media formats, music, and other issues, a sizable fraction of even that 10% will be lost because it can only be published on VHS. There will probably be no (legal) DVD, Blue-Ray, or other newer media formatting to ever view those movies or shows. Perhaps with some sort of proper archiving, it might last till it falls out of copyright or issues are settled and can be republished, but that will take work on somebodies part.

    6. Re:Grumpy old man moment: by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      It's generally accepted that the best way to experience a concert is by observing both the photons and the sound waves.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  15. "Great Speech!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh no, we might lose some or all of "The Police Academy" movies.

    1. Re:"Great Speech!" by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Not to worry, I have all of them in digital format sitting on my HDD. In triplicate!

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    2. Re:"Great Speech!" by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Umm, I think you'll find there was only one.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  16. Weekend at Bernie's by turp182 · · Score: 1

    Does this mean that Weekend at Bernie's gets to die forever (made in 1989, DVDs came out in 1995)? Oh shit, I've that on DVD!

    At least vinyl records from the 70's and prior continue on, my mom has both an original with Rocket Man by Elton John as well as a perfect Tommy by the Who. I got her a record player for Christmas last year and she's been busy cleaning all of her albums.

    I'm assuming cassette tapes have the same problem, so some of the 1980's craptastic "we have a keyboard!!!" stuff will rot. Good riddance.

    Now where is the CD-destrucinator, for all of the pop in the last 20 years??? If Doofenshmirtz made the inator, it would surely have such a setting (if the reference eludes you, check out Phineas and Ferb, a great cartoon for all ages).

     

    --
    BlameBillCosby.com
    1. Re:Weekend at Bernie's by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      Does this mean that Weekend at Bernie's gets to die forever

      You can always watch the remake aka Hillary Clinton's election campaign.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  17. What about my Pr0n? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So ummm, how many of those tapes are pr0n and that's the real reason no one's brought them in to the library for scanning...

  18. Oh no! by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 1

    Each transfer the Collective does requires them to play the entire tape through while they sit there and watch it.

    While I understand people's reluctance to let things like this go, I have to say: if it is so difficult to find time to watch the tape now, why do you think you're going to want to watch it in the future?

    --

    How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    1. Re:Oh no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My father died a while ago and left hundreds of video and audio tapes. Most of them crappy TV/radio shows that nobody needs. Somewhere among them are the only existing live recordings from my childhood. Do you really not understand the problem?

    2. Re:Oh no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think about sequential vs random access for a moment

    3. Re:Oh no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That he taped over your early childhood videos, with crappy TV/radio shows? Where's Bruce Wayne when you need him?

    4. Re:Oh no! by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      My father died a while ago and left hundreds of video and audio tapes. Most of them crappy TV/radio shows that nobody needs. Somewhere among them are the only existing live recordings from my childhood. Do you really not understand the problem?

      The problem is that you don't care enough to look through the labels /and or find the recordings? I mean, thats the real problem. not that you couldn't have scanned them - it's that you don't care and most people don't care.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    5. Re:Oh No! by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      How will I save my copy of Shazaam!?

      There is no such movie. You're the victim of a popular Internet conspiracy.

      As far as the movie you're really thinking of, no need to worry. You can watch it for free on YouTube. Or, here's the YouTube version you actually have to pay to see, and is somehow 15 minutes longer.

    6. Re:Oh No! by quantaman · · Score: 1

      How will I save my copy of Shazaam!?

      There is no such movie. You're the victim of a popular Internet conspiracy.

      As far as the movie you're really thinking of, no need to worry. You can watch it for free on YouTube. Or, here's the YouTube version you actually have to pay to see, and is somehow 15 minutes longer.

      Whoosh :)

      --
      I stole this Sig
  19. Home Movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The primary concern is not old VHS copies of studio movies, the biggest issue is home movies taken during that era - If not converted, the footage is lost

    1. Re:Home Movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And nothing of value was lost.

    2. Re:Home Movies by ledow · · Score: 1

      You mean like EVERY OTHER TECHNOLOGY, both before and after it?

      Nothing much cine-wise survives more than a generation. Even home DVD's are being lost and won't be around forever. The current generation don't even understand "storage" as being something they have in their home attic, it's all digital and all in the cloud and on throwaway devices.

      And, can I just say, the other poster below has it right. Nobody really cares. There are thousands of photos in my parent's attic. I know maybe a handful of people in them. There are cine movies about protest marches that happened in the 60's, amateur shot and you wouldn't know that if someone hadn't told you who was there.

      The value of most of that stuff - including sentimentality and value to nation's archive - is so minimal as to be zero. This is why people clear out dead people's houses and throw most of it away, keeping only a memento or two that they know the story of. Go to any antiques market and you'll see thousands upon thousands of old photos and postcards. They're basically valueless. And nobody buys "home" photo of someone unless it's aesthetically pleasing. Some postcard of a guy you don't know, in uniform, in the standard pose, from the first world war, literally goes for the price of the stamp on the back.

      Archives wouldn't touch the vast, vast, vast majority of it. And hence most of it will always be lost. The same story since the days of the ancient Egyptians. Those people who were historically important will have stuff preserved. Everyone else is just incidental and all their possessions and records will be lost to time.

      People would pay millions for a lost tape of Dr Who. Literally millions wouldn't care a jot for their own family's home movies past a generation or two. And, no, the fact they don't preserve it making them rarer doesn't mean the ones that are preserved are more valuable. Value comes from both rarity and desire for it. And nobody cares about those things.

      Go look at archives like the BFI, there to preserve film from the very earliest days of recording. They have films of historical interest. That's about it. Really, really, really early recordings, reports of the war, that's it. In terms of home movies, unless it's somehow extremely unusual (e.g. filmed before anyone else even had a camera), it's not even considered.

      The situation will only get worse as digitisation takes over. from things you might still find in a shed after 50 years and get partially working again.

  20. O darn by AlanObject · · Score: 1

    I suppose this means I have to give up on that Ann Coulter/Sarah Palin sex tape floating around here somewhere.

  21. More effort needs to be put into this by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

    This is a great small start. Much more needs to be done along the lines of Google's original idea of digitizing all books. I spent a lot of time getting all my old hi 8 tapes transferred to disk, and can attest to it not being easy if the tapes are old. The metal particle hi 8 tapes were particularly bad as some of the oxide would slough off during playback and gum up the play head. Sometimes had to clean and retry multiple times just to get 5 min converted. The metal evaporated tapes were much better. I can't imagine how bad some of the older oxide tapes are faring now.

    --
    A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
  22. STOP THE ARCHIVISTS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Videotapes are becoming unwatchable as archivists work to save them? We need to stop those archivists from working to save them before more videotapes become unwatchable!

  23. Silent film by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

    Something like 90% of films from the silent era have been lost. That is a huge chunk of history and art lost to time.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:Silent film by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      And the point is we should keep making more. Not just reminisce about the old times. Yeah, it may be cool to find Doctor Who episodes in Hong Kong or Australia that were thought to have been lost, but what has finding them actually accomplished?

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    2. Re:Silent film by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How dare someone has an uncommon hobby!

    3. Re:Silent film by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This guy is too busy curing cancer to watch old tv shows.

    4. Re:Silent film by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      Posterity is a nosy bastard.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    5. Re:Silent film by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      The good stuff perpetuates. The bad stuff doesn't. Thats how culture works.

      It easily hops across technology advances. I can easily find Aesop's Fables online, for instance, and that was created about 2500 years ago.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  24. VHS archiving by jetkust · · Score: 1

    Seems many here don't quite understand the sheer volume of content released on VHS all the way into the 2000s. Not just home videos, but endless amounts of direct to video content, films, etc... Tons of which are not available on any other medium. Some of this got crowd "archived" just due to torrent sites and Youtube, but some VHS content hasn't been digitized to this day may be lost forever if not done soon.

    However, the idea of tapes not lasting past 15 to 20 years I think is incorrect. It may depend more on the quality and conditions they were kept but I've had tapes well over 20+ years that played perfectly. There are still tons of old tapes from 80s and 90s you can purchase off Amazon or eBay which all play fine. Tapes in clamshell cases seem to be in the best shape leading me to believe not exposing the tape to the elements is the most important factor.

    1. Re:VHS archiving by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

      Seems many here don't quite understand the sheer volume of content released on VHS all the way into the 2000s. Not just home videos, but endless amounts of direct to video content, films, etc... Tons of which are not available on any other medium. Some of this got crowd "archived" just due to torrent sites and Youtube, but some VHS content hasn't been digitized to this day may be lost forever if not done soon. However, the idea of tapes not lasting past 15 to 20 years I think is incorrect. It may depend more on the quality and conditions they were kept but I've had tapes well over 20+ years that played perfectly. There are still tons of old tapes from 80s and 90s you can purchase off Amazon or eBay which all play fine. Tapes in clamshell cases seem to be in the best shape leading me to believe not exposing the tape to the elements is the most important factor.

      Is it really worth the effort and cost in archiving? To be honest, I don't see the value or the point other than for that feel good feeling of archiving something obscure for the future in the off chance that someone may find it and watch it. There's a lot of old content that just needs to die and be forgotten. If it's worth remembering, someone already digitized it.

    2. Re:VHS archiving by great+throwdini · · Score: 5, Informative

      Is it really worth the effort and cost in archiving? To be honest, I don't see the value or the point other than for that feel good feeling of archiving something obscure for the future in the off chance that someone may find it and watch it. There's a lot of old content that just needs to die and be forgotten. If it's worth remembering, someone already digitized it.

      Off the cuff, I'd imagine that a great deal of news footage from the era in question was recorded to tape (rather than film) that is subject to the stresses of time and the elements. Materials such as these beholden to the limitations of the medium under discussion aren't just about "that feel good feeling of archiving something obscure".

    3. Re:VHS archiving by war4peace · · Score: 1

      This.
      Also this is where the "dreaded" pirating might come really handy. There are trackers out there (albeit private) which offer high quality digitized versions of older movies (some which were appealing to limited audiences only, so maybe in danger of being lost).

      I guess it's a matter of "archiving for the sake of archiving" thing.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    4. Re:VHS archiving by jetkust · · Score: 1

      Is it really worth the effort and cost in archiving? To be honest, I don't see the value or the point other than for that feel good feeling of archiving something obscure for the future in the off chance that someone may find it and watch it. There's a lot of old content that just needs to die and be forgotten. If it's worth remembering, someone already digitized it.

      Just because it is archived doesn't mean it won't be forgotten. And just because it is not archived doesn't mean it will never hold any significance in the entire future of the planet. Antiques aren't worth remembering until someone in the future decides it's worth remembering. But the main point is that it's not like we're running out of harddrive space. What is the big deal? Why wouldn't we archive our stuff?

    5. Re:VHS archiving by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Just because it is archived doesn't mean it won't be forgotten. And just because it is not archived doesn't mean it will never hold any significance in the entire future of the planet.

      Clearly we must lose some stuff or it will eventually become impossible to find anything.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  25. Sounds great by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    The high quality transfer of crappy tapes. LOL

  26. Re:This sounds like a great job for machine learni by RoverDaddy · · Score: 1

    Actually yes. I happened to find this video just yesterday and it explains why VHS video signals would be very fragile compared to typical audio recordings:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfuARMCyTvg

    --
    RETURN without GOSUB in line 1050
  27. VHS to Disc machines. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is why I invested in a deck that can transfer over to disc. Don't even have to babysit it.

  28. Mod informative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rake fight scene. Maybe I should be glad I didn't have to live through THAT..

  29. Mod idiot parent down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had a flat screen Trinitron. Giant CRT monitor. It was just as sharp as the flat panel LCDs sold these days.

    1. Re:Mod idiot parent down by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      Agreed! I always cringe when I hear someone say they have a "Flat Screen" TV. They think that somehow makes it better than a CRT, but in fact, it tells you NOTHING about the display technology. Is it Plasma, LCD, SXRD, DLP, or maybe something else? Jeez, even early projection sets had a "flat screen".

    2. Re:Mod idiot parent down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good ol' Trinitron. That darn horizontal wire line that you could make shake. Freaking awesome picture for its time.

  30. Late-90s tapes are in worse shape than 80s tapes by Miamicanes · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Somewhat counter-intuitively, I've noticed that my OLDEST (mid/late-80s) VHS tapes are in MUCH better shape than the tapes I made between 1995 and 2004. My theory: in the 80s, a VCR & its tapes were expensive, well-made precision hardware. By the late 90s, they were just cheap shit -- recorders AND tapes. I think my early-80s tapes weigh as much as 3 or 4 late-90s tapes.

  31. How magnetic tapes work? by najajomo · · Score: 1

    "Here's how magnetic tapes work: Sounds and images are magnetized onto strips of tape, using the same principle as when you rub a piece of metal with a magnet and it retains that magnetism"

    Geez, I thought that as the tape moved past an induction coil, tiny fluctuations in the coil induced a magnetic flux in the tape, which was coated in a magnetizable material.

  32. Oh No! by quantaman · · Score: 1

    How will I save my copy of Shazaam!?

    --
    I stole this Sig
  33. Archaeology by JBMcB · · Score: 1

    Here's the thing - we don't know what data archeologists, or anthropologists, are going to find interesting or useful in a few hundred years' time. They threw away the kinescope films of the first NFL Superbowl, which is clearly of historical interest. Ditto many of the original Playhouse 90 broadcasts, where many of the initial TV screenwriters, and quite a few big name movie directors, got their start. The DuMont network, one of the original national TV networks, basically lost all of its programming other than a few series that the actors themselves had copies of, The Honeymooners being one of them. I would think recordings of the very first TV broadcasts would be pretty important from an anthropological standpoint, but when Paramount bought them they scrapped DuMont's entire film library to reclaim the silver nitrate.

    Think of it this way - imagine how incredible it would be to have film of what life was like in the 1400's. Even if it was just film of one of their plays, or some chamber music. How did people talk? What did they wear? What were they interested in? If they produced a play about ancient Rome, what did THEY think ancient Rome looked like?

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re:Archaeology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe our grandchildren just won't care about these?

  34. Re:This sounds like a great job for machine learni by WoodstockJeff · · Score: 1

    "Wouldn't this be a decent project for a machine learning solution?"

    No, because a machine-learning solution would realize that it should just bulk-erase the media more quickly than a human would.

  35. huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's what comes of buying/using crap tapes on crap machines and crap storage..
    I'm another one with vhs tapes that go back to at least 1980 and they all are ok still,but then I always used pricey high quality tape in pricey machines..
    I also have some Philips v2000 tapes and a deck,they are also perfect still.
    I have audio cassettes going back to 1971 which are still perfect but the oldest is an old work tape of my mums,so used lots of times for recording interviews that is an original Philips cassette from 1967,the sound quality was bad then,so is still bad now,but the one music track I put on the very end in 1970.still sounds ok..
    Good quality media and hardware pays dividends in many ways,you get what you pay for,cheap crap dies..

  36. I have the original Star Wars on VHS by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    Han shot first.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    1. Re:I have the original Star Wars on VHS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I have it on Laserdisc and DVD :)

  37. Good gear couldn't be bought towards the end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They quit making quality gear at the end of a technology's lifecycle.
    It's just economics, and it is inescapable.

    1. Re: Good gear couldn't be bought towards the end by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So clever people(like me) went out and bought up all the nice expensive machines from quality firms at knock down prices or even free sometimes from those folk who just had to have the latest new toy and who didn't think "what am i going to use to play my old tapes with"

  38. Re:Late-90s tapes are in worse shape than 80s tape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is absolutely true. At my workplace we have a VHS archive of broadcast TV stretching from the 1980s up to 2005 and our archivist will confirm that the newer tapes are of vastly inferior quality. It's not news to us that these tapes "should" be digitised, but the cost of a mass digitisation program is pretty prohibitive. Just sourcing enough VHS players is a problem, then you have digitisation hardware, storage, and all the human costs of manual QA and metadata-generation. Also, how do you balance the costs/benefits of the digital format? Standard wisdom is that only lossless high-bitrate video-codecs are suitable for archives - but then you're talking about expensive hardware _and_ huge storage costs. And you can't really afford to get it wrong because some of the more sketchy tapes are probably in a "play once (max)" state.

  39. Re:Late-90s tapes are in worse shape than 80s tape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Storage is cheap. If you're a business, it's almost irrelevant and nothing compared to a few hours of a skilled work, let alone anyone in senior management. You can archive data off drives onto longer term, and far cheaper tape storage too.

  40. Re:Late-90s tapes are in worse shape than 80s tape by Waccoon · · Score: 1

    I've had the same issue with all my old floppy disks. All my stuff from the 80's works perfectly, but most stuff post '95 has some kind of problem.

  41. Re:Late-90s tapes are in worse shape than 80s tape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The mechanisms in the later VCRs were much better than in the earlier ones... Just look at the size and weight of earlier VCRs compared to the last ones made - the later ones had much simpler and lighter mechanisms. It also depends on what model of VCR you bought, of course.

  42. Free? by sims+2 · · Score: 1

    What free services are out there that do tape to digital conversion?

    --
    Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    1. Re:Free? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google.

      If you go to www.google.com and insert your VHS tape into the slot on the screen, Google will return a YouTube link to your digitized video.

      For free.

  43. Re: Late-90s tapes are in worse shape than 80s tap by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

    Later VCRs were lighter because they substituted plastic for metal, and substituted better DSPs more capable of tolerating slop than older models, which required fairly tight tolerances. The problem is, due to the way VHS geometry works, it's entirely possible to have two VCRs with sloppy alignment & operation that can play THEIR OWN sloppy recordings just fine, but choke on sloppy recordings made by OTHER VCRs. Even back around 1999-2001, people were noticing (and commenting in posts online) that tapes recorded on one VCR tended to play poorly on other people's VCRs, even though older tapes (and most pristine prerecorded tapes) played fine on both.

  44. What archivists REALLY need by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

    What archivists REALLY need is a playback device with enough tiny heads to read the tape in linear fashion, with enough oversampling to allow complete capture with a single pass, then post-capture analysis to find the original diagonal tracks and do "digital tracking". This is a huge problem with current archiving methods that depend on semi-manual tracking control... it makes capture *hugely* time and labor intensive. If we could confidently do "one pass now to preserve its current state onto some longterm-stable medium and stop the degeneration clock", with enough redundancy to let future generations restore the recordings they themselves care about, it would be much easier.

    Tip: when archiving your own recordings, MAKE SURE the VERTICAL resolution is 480/525 or 540/625(?) -- VHS has shit horizontal resolution, but fairly good vertical resolution. Also, don't skimp on the bitrate or horizontal resolution if you ever want to do restoration on it... noise and blur requires WAY more bits to accurately encode than clean, crisp video. If you have enough room to store more than an hour of captured VHS on a DVD, you're "doing it wrong". Also, NEVER use dual-layer DVD+R/DL... the lower layer will decay & become unreadable LONG before the upper layer. And don't archive to hard drives for long-term cold storage... most of them won't work 20 years from now, and at least half won't work 10 years from now.

  45. Why no cheap digital conversion hardware ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I live in hope of a cheap purpose built VHS to digital player / convertor. All I see are shitty old players where you have to connect up your own analogue to digital kit.