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'Chiropractors Are Bullshit' (theoutline.com)
From an article on The Outline, submitted by two readers: If you're one of the approximately 80 percent of Americans who have suffered from back pain, you may have been referred to a chiropractor for medical help. In the modern-day internet landscape, you'll find chiropractic celebrities like Dr. Josh Axe (1.7 million Facebook followers), Dr. Billy DeMoss (20,000 Facebook followers), and Dr. Eric Berg (472,000 YouTube subscribers) giving advice that goes beyond managing spinal issues. Both in their offices and on social media, chiropractors have adapted to a marketplace that's demanding more than just pain management: they extol the virtues of an "alkaline diet," tell you how to manage stress with detoxing, and wax scientific about the adrenal gland. [...] Chiropractic care, I'm sorry to say, is little more than the buffoonery of a 19th-century lunatic who derived most of his medical theory from seances. It has not evolved much since its creation. Chiropractic beliefs are dangerously far removed from mainstream medicine, and the vocation's practices have been linked to strokes, herniated discs, and even death. Chiropractors can't replace your doctor, and I'm amazed that they're still even allowed to practice. [...] Though some chiropractors are now making an effort to introduce evidence-based practices into their treatment, chiropractic as a whole hasn't evolved like other areas of medicine -- with hypotheses, experimentation, and peer review. Instead, it was birthed by a strange combination of hocus pocus, guesswork, and strongly held religious beliefs.
I used to go to the chiropractor for my back. It hurt, but afterwards I felt better.
Then I started massage therapy instead. I felt better, and it didn't hurt, either. Win-win.
Now I just go sit in the sauna. Just as effective, much cheaper. Win-win-win. All win for me.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
But.
Mmmmm... your complimentary x-rays indicate we'll be needing to see you twice a week for three months to, ahem, straighten you out.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
They would get the same or better benefits from a professional masseuse, as demonstrated by the studies linked in the article, plus hundreds more. They also would have significantly less chance of death.
Just ask anyone who could barely walk into the Chiropractor's office, and walk out pain-free with a smile.
Chiropractors may be effective at giving temporary relief for back pain, so if you just want the pain to go away for a few days they may be a good solution. But they likely aren't fixing the underlying problem, and there is no evidence or plausible mechanism for fixing your digestion and curing cancer by popping your back.
http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/news/20070316/chiropractic-cuts-blood-pressure#1
March 16, 2007 -- A special chiropractic adjustment can significantly lower high blood pressure, a placebo-controlled study suggests.
"This procedure has the effect of not one, but two blood-pressure medications given in combination," study leader George Bakris, MD, tells WebMD. "And it seems to be adverse-event free. We saw no side effects and no problems," adds Bakris, director of the University of Chicago hypertension center.
Not all chiropractic is bad.
My GP is cross-trained to perform chiropractic adjustments.
Once, I was unable to straighten my back due to nerve entrapment and possibly bones actually not lining up; this may have to do with being rear-ended a while back, but that’s immaterial to the conversation.
A few agonizing back-rocking movements with a pillow and a fist, and two neck-twists, and I was physically capable of straightening without grinding bone against bone. Add a shot of some kind of potent muscle relaxant, and suddenly I’m capable of straightening my back.
Perhaps the best approach is to incorporate the evidence-based portions of chiropractic methods into a traditional clinical setting like my GP has done? I guess I’m suggesting that we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, pretty much. Sometimes the problem really is a subluxation, after all, even if they’re not responsible for the majority of human illness.
This article spends almost its entire length going on and on about things like alternative medicine, but almost nothing about the actual resolution of back pain, except with respect to children (which, the article acknowledges, is not something all chiropractors endorse).
I don't buy into any of the nonsense, and my chiropractor doesn't either, but he uses the Impulse tool which doesn't hurt when it makes adjustments and I leave feeling much better than when I arrived. Before making any adjustment, he massages the back muscle to loosen it up and prevent damage. He's given me exercises to strengthen my back muscles to help keep things in alignment--and they work to the point that I go back about once per year when I do something really stupid and throw something completely out of alignment. He specifically said in my first appointment that if I'm coming back twice a week for years, he's not done his job properly.
Several years ago when I popped my scapula out of place while stretching and pinched a nerve (8-9 on the pain scale, didn't sleep a wink that night), the chiropractor put it back in place and the sharp stab instantly became a dull ache that went away after a few days.
I fully accept the idea that there are con artists out there who do the things mentioned in this article. I do not accept that it is universal or that chiropractors are incapable of providing any benefit whatsoever.
I don't pretend to know all the in and out of medicine but I have learned one very important thing: chiropractors make you feel better for a day but a physical therapist will help you fix that which is causing you pain. A physical therapist may have you do a certain exercise every morning or some jazz but it prevents you have having painful issues later that would send you crying to a chiropractor.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
I don't know about the diets they extol, or any other homeopathic remedies they might have,
It's in the summary, so you should. And it is clearly bullshit on the order of anti-vax conspiracy theories or "foodbabe" bullshit. Because why stick to one type of bullshit if you're already a professional bullshitter?
Just ask anyone who could barely walk into the Chiropractor's office, and walk out pain-free with a smile....I know people who've been really happy after their "adjustments."
Good, but that's anecdotal like you can easily find for qigong or crystals. Actual evidence suggests very slight help for a small number of problems. If the people who were barely walking in had chronic lower back pain and were happy and pain free afterward, it was in their head, and they'd be better off doing core exercises probably.
Anecdotes are not data, etc...
However I screwed my back up something awful by pulling a sledge load across a floor - exactly what you NEVER should do - and a chiropractor had me walking and feeling not nearly as painful after one visit. After 3 visits I was "cured". That was 12 years ago, been fine ever since.
So it worked for me. However, as you point out nobody should be expecting them to cure cancer or diabetes or acne or any bullshit like that.
"Chiropractors may be effective at giving temporary relief for back pain, so if you just want the pain to go away for a few days they may be a good solution."
The mainstream medical equivalent is to prescribe a dozen opiate pills to achieve the same result, but with significant downsides. Which is bullshit?
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
I constantly see articles like this on the internet decrying the the evil unscientific ways of chiropractors, but I have never encountered in in the real world. This is despite having many friends and family members that have seen many different chiropractors in multiple states. Some that work with large practices, others that look like old hippies working part time out of their home. Yet not of them, not one, has claimed to cure anything other than skeletal/muscular problems like chronic back pain, bad posture/gaits, legitimate referred pain, etc.
I've read about the history of chiropractic medicine, and yeah it is pretty ridiculous. Just like the early history of psychology and other medical practices. And I'm sure there probably are still a few quacks out there, but most of the quackery that you linked is also espoused by celebrity MDs, not just or even mostly chiropractors. It seems like the vast majority of the field has moved on past their unsavory roots; when will the internet crusaders move on as well?
Bullshit.
My Dr gave me a referral to a physical therapist that actually helped correct the problem.
Next you are going to tell us the magic crystals and diterary bullshit that chiropractors deal in works too, right?
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
As a bunch of " hocus pocus, guesswork, and strongly held religious beliefs." Aside from things like humor theory, astrology and alchemical theories were freely mixed into medieval and Renaissance medicine. For centuries there was little reason not to prefer alternative medicinal theories to academic medicine.
But the fact that conventional medical training was done at great academic centers gave it a long term advantage. As empiricism became the basis of scientific inquiry, medicine adopted it too. Medical empiricism has never been quite so robust as scientific empiricism, but by 1900 you were probably better off with a medical doctor than with the village herbalist, faith healer, or random quack. A hundred years earlier that'd have been a dubious proposition.
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It depends on what the issue is. Yes, there are a lot of Chiropractors who indulge in all kinds of quackery. But Chiropractors are licensed to take X-rays and diagnose issues with the back that don't require surgery. People "throw their back out" doing something they shouldn't have done, and injure their back in such a way that can be solved by a chiropractic adjustment. Think of the equivalent of a jammed finger or dislocated shoulder as one example. Perhaps something like that may solve itself eventually, or perhaps a masseuse might be able to deal with it, but masseuses don't have anywhere near the training a Chiropractor has, and are typically not trained for non muscle related injuries (and masseuse/massage therapy training is significantly more varied across the states than that required for a licensed Chiropractor), whereas a Chiropractor can handle both muscle and non muscle related issues.
A competent Chiropractor can take an X-ray and will refer you to a doctor if there is an injury that is not suitable for their skills, e.g. surgery is required. But back surgery should be the absolute last resort for fixing a back problem. You should always get a second or even third opinion before having back surgery.
I'd avoid any Chiropractor that wants you to visit on an ongoing basis. If that is the case, you would be right in that a masseuse would be a better and cheaper alternative. I have a Chiropractor who is willing to deal with a specific issue and solve it and that's it. I've visited him for a total of 3 sessions for two different back problems in the last 10 years. There's nothing temporary about the relief I got.
One of my best friends decided to become a chiropractor, years ago -- so I got to learn a fair bit about that whole process and the challenges it presented.
First off? Yeah, it's true. A whole lot of people become a chiropractor because they're looking for a profession they can make a lot of money in, without all the studying required for a genuine medical degree. This isn't unlike a lot of people who go into dentistry though, either. In other words, it's not really a reason to write the whole field off as useless. It just means you've got to navigate the "minefield" of people who care more about buying their next luxury car or vacation home than your health.
But the other issue is, chiropractors do generally struggle to get well established. The guys with the big practices running ads on the radio constantly are the few that the rest of them aspire to be someday. People like my buddy started out genuinely wanting to help people manage their pain without resorting to getting all doped up on pain medications. That's, IMO, pretty legitimate. Problem is -- that doesn't quite pay the bills. His chiropractic college he graduated from put him almost 6 figures in student loan debt, and then he had to take out the small business loan for his own office and equipment. What usually happens is the struggling chiro says, "You know.... I could really use something to pad my revenue and pay the rent on this place. I know this lady who does acupuncture who needs an office to work out of....", or "Nobody ever got hurt taking a few essential vitamins and minerals. I should start selling some of these on the side." Before long, their practice is hawking all sorts of nonsense alternative medicine (because there's a demand for that from those who believe in it), and it's all justifiable if you view it as the power of the placebo effect and state of mind playing a role in how healthy you feel.
I think some people truly do get benefit from chiropractors, and that's a big reason insurance companies will still pay out for visits to them after car accidents. If it was pure quackery, they would have refused to give them a dime long ago. I used to know a gal, for example, who had some serious back problems. On a good day, she'd be up walking or running about like nothing was wrong at all. But she had occasional situations where her back would literally seize up, and she couldn't straighten herself back up after bending over, or found she couldn't get up out of bed in the morning. Traditional doctors didn't have a whole lot to offer her, besides highly addictive pain pills.They put her on disability so she got her monthly payment from SSI and didn't have to work. But really, that whole thing was a rather sad "solution". (90% of the time, she was as mobile as anyone else. There had to be a way she could hold down a job despite her issues.) She figured out that regular visits to a chiropractor really helped loosen up tight back muscles and certain adjustments gave her temporary pain relief and less likelihood of her back totally freezing up on her. She couldn't afford to go often, but did so when she could get a deal from a chiropractor who took pity on her situation.
You're right, but your conclusion isn't. Neither is BS, both work. I used BS in relation to the headline - which itself is BS, generalizing "chiropractors" to include fringe therapies well beyond what many (most?) chiropractors practice. It's painting with a very, very, broad brush. One could just as easily point to questionable practices by a subset of MDs, there are many to chose from. It's a case of invalid generalization. What's next, picking on osteopaths?
I see it as a spectrum with increasing training, and a difference in focus - physical therapists, chiropractors, osteopaths, MDs (although the OD/MD distinction has lessened over time). There are physical maladies which can be helped with physical manipulation in lieu of drugs or invasive surgery, which is what MDs tend to push. The article was written by someone with a biased agenda.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
One of the prime therapies that chiropractors do is using electrical stimulation. You end up feeling better, at least for a while. You can buy cheap "tens" units, google for "tens unit" cheap and they do the same thing, and you can use them while mobile, not just lying on your back. Make sure to get the electrode pads as well if you are in constant pain, but IMHO, ever house should have one, just like many other first-aid measures.
An osteopath will be able to recommend all sorts of treatments. Those trained in therapeutic massage and physical therapy have just as much training. There are the true believer chiropractors ("straights") on one end who should be avoided, and those on the other extreme that are basically using modern medical techniques but who call themselves chiropractors because so much of America is convinced that "chiropractor" means "back doctor".
There is evidence that chiropractic techniques may help with some back pain issues. But probably more important is that many chiropractors aren't the true believers and will also use modern medical techniques (ice packs, massage, etc). Some studies have shown that even effective chiropractic treatments to be no better than conventional treatments, but if the chiropractor is cheaper maybe consider it.
Like many alternative medicines, it's generally safe so it won't cause harm if used sparingly. Go for a visit or two and if it helps great. But don't get sucked into the core chiropractic belief, don't neglect seeing a real doctor, etc. At least most US chiropractors do recommend seeing real doctors, a big plus over homeopaths.
The history of chiropractic was not founded in medicine. They rejected germ theory and believed that general health could be affected by spinal adjustments. That's the foundation of the philosophy, it is not "fringe" except that it has become a minority view. It would be better I think if a lot of modern chiropractors stopped using the name, then the patients could more easily determine who's the quack and who just uses the name for marketing purposes because so many patients don't know the history.
(just like homeopaths, they have a lot of patients who don't know the history, they just see the "all natural ingredients" part and assume it must be good)
There's a lot of overlap between a good chiropractor and a physical therapist. They both use many of the same techniques (stretching, massage, exercises, etc. to stop and eventually reverse certain types of injuries).
There are also significant differences, of course. Physical therapists cover a broader range of issues, including things like learning how to walk again after a stroke. But as a result, they're also typically a lot more expensive, so for minor, chronic injuries (e.g. "programmers' back"), a chiropractor is generally a better choice.
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Agreed.
I was very skeptical of chiropractors until I needed one. In grad school I would walk several miles to and from campus every day and somehow kept spraining the inside of my ankle. I saw multiple GPs, PT specialists, orthopedists, etc At the time grad students got free health insurance and I was referred to the PhD/MDs that were part of the med school on campus who were supposedly some of the best in their fields. I'd be fine for a week or two and then I'd be back on the crutches. Finally my wife suggested I try her chiro.
At the first visit, he figured out by watching me walk over to his exam room one leg was longer than the other by a little over an inch and I would pronate as I walked to compensate. After adjusting me, he said it would take 5 more visits. Before the fifth visit, he said I needed to get orthodics to compensate for the difference that couldn't be fixed by straightening me out. Now, unless I do something stupid that causes me not to wear my orthodics, I'm fine. I've had no more mysterious ankle sprains.
I don't know how this isn't scientific. He took measurements, formulated a plan, did adjustments that reduced pain and eliminated the swelling and inflammation without pharmaceuticals, got to the root problem, and referred me to a specialist who created custom orthodics to solve the underlying problem.
In my mind this is way better than the traditional medical approach of treating the symptoms with drugs and not really addressing the underlying problems.
I was never offered specific dietary advice other than lose a few pounds, but I was overweight from long days and eating poorly while slaving away for my PhD advisor, so that was to be expected. No crystals, no fancy sensors, no continuous treatments for the rest of my life.
Since then I have been more open to other "alternative" medical treatment. I used to have horrible insomnia... I saw sleep specialists, I was sent to a psychologist because it just had to be stress, and finally a GP told me I had reached the limits of modern pharmacology. A friend referred me to an acupuncturist. On my first visit, he said "looking at the condition of the skin, you're short on these neurotransmitters". I was skeptical so I had the levels tested and a week of supplements later I was sleeping 8 hours per night for the first time in decades.
Do I think that releasing my Chi will suddenly grant me immunity to the flu? No. Do I think my accupuncturist is an experienced specialist who thinks outside of the standard flowchart most doctors follow? Yep.
That's the key to everything. Find the experts that get real referrals. Do your homework and don't just dismiss things without it. Regardless of the field there are a lot of pretenders out there. I've seen incompetent people in a lot of areas... IT providers who can't patch a server, contractors who can't safely install anything, Doctors who miss the simple because they are trained to look at a problem through a specific lens are no different.
It doesn't matter what somebody calls themselves, it matters what they're doing. That's why the "origins attack" is so blatantly stupid. It is like doubting gravity because Newton engaged in alchemy.
More common than you'd think - there's a support group for atheist priests. No atheist deliberately becomes a priest, but there are many priests that lose their faith and remain stuck in the profession because it's the only field that hold qualifications and experience in. So they do what many nonbelievers in highly religious communities do: Fake it.
There's good ones and bad ones, and I've been to both. The guy I go to now doesn't try to claim chiropratic care can fix and and every thing that might go wrong and he's very straightforward about the limitations of the treatment he provides. The guy I used to see, on the other hand, I could have come in with a hole in my aorta and he'd have tried to massage it out.
One thing that a good chiropractor will do for you that a massage therapist typically won't (in my experience) is provide wellness counseling in the form of stretches and exercises you can do to speed along the healing process and behavioral changes to keep the pain away once it's gone. My experience has borne out that the pain will go away if I don't do the stretches and exercises or incorporate any of the behavioral changes; but, it does take longer without the stretches and exercises; and it's only as permanent as my willingness to adopt the behavioral changes.
The danger comes from incorporating chiropractic care with other forms of "alt medicine", rather than using it as an additional form of treatment on top of proper medical care. Yes, a lot of people do this, and a lot of chiropractors not only allow, but encourage, them to do so. That's how people die under a chiropractor's care.
At the end of the day, it's up to each and every one of us to use a little bit of common sense every once in a while and realize that you probably can't trust the guy who tells you to take a couple drops of some homeopathic "tincture" to get the vibrations from whatever was at one point in that water, and you should probably seek care from someone who hasn't jumped off the deep end.
Unfortunately, my experience is that most chiropractors have done just that, and it makes it difficult, if not dangerous, to try and find a good one.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
My wife has jaw problems, likely partly my fault, or so she likes to say :) It's not, really, as she's dealt with it for half her life, until relatively recently, but I appreciate the compliment when she says it.
She's been to doctors who referred her to massage therapists who referred her to dentists who referred her to orthopedic surgeons who said the only way to fix her problem is to break and realign her jaw, but they'd only do so under the advice of a dentist; and it was the dentist who referred her to the guy in the first place because a dentist can't make that recommendation.
I finally got her to go to my chiropractor and when she mentioned the jaw problem, he popped it to the side a bit (it was more than that, but that's what it looked like from the sidelines) and she hasn't had jaw pain since.
Yeah, jaw fixed in one visit; he's still working on her back problems, which aren't as bad as mine but I've been seeing him for 9 months and she's been seeing him for only a month. But, really, years of doctors telling her they can't do anything for her jaw, or that they could but won't, practically every excuse in the book and common advice being "just live with it", and i could have been (and was) fixed in 20 seconds.
Actually, it's disingenuous for me to say I've been seeing him for 9 months, there were 6 months starting in November when I didn't need his services, then a combination of stress and physical overexertion put me in pain again.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Bullshit.
My Dr gave me a referral to a physical therapist that actually helped correct the problem.
So did mine, however I still ended up needing a chiropractor.
Next you are going to tell us the magic crystals and diterary bullshit that chiropractors deal in works too, right?
I think when you find the right chiropractor that sticks with skilled mechanical movement of the joints in the body I can't move, they are a blessing you will thank for the relief. I will indulge your patience so I can explain.
I've been training martial arts for around 30 years and occasionally competed to test myself. Mainly muay Thai and Jui Jitsu are my favorites because they are effective. I also love playing sports like football, hockey, climbing, swimming, I love it all.
Well after all those years of training all of those injuries leave scar tissue which accumulates in the body, the pain of movement becomes an issue. I was doing some intense physiotherapy deep tissue massage for many years, documenting my progress and changes which I one day presented to my doctor.
He looked at them and suggested "Dry Needling", which uses larger needles than acupuncture which is inserted directly into injury sites around the body. It's as extremely confronting as it is effective. I have had over five thousand needles stuck into pretty much anywhere you could name in the body (ok, maybe not my dick). I have resolved 27 injury sites in my body.
A pattern emerged while going through all this, all muscle tension moves from the extremities to the spine which is where I was eternally grateful for a chiropractor with the skill to cavitate my spine and get it moving again. After that the injury site was fully resolved.
I've taken almost three years off training to do this and I feel fucking amazing. I've logged movements of hundreds of hours of cavitation of joints all over my body as scar tissue broke up all over my body. I've recovered range of motion in almost every joint in my body in the cycle, needles, cavitation, chiropractor. Repeated in joints from my fingers to my hips.
The hips have been the hardest to move which I am going through writing this. For the last two days my left ankle, knee and hip have cavitated hundreds of times over a period of about 5 hours a session. The release events (I don't know what else to call them) breaks up the scar tissue through a series of numbness, stretching and cavitation and wipes you out physically. It leaves me nauseous and feeling like I've done a heavy weights session, I slept 40 hours over three days as I felt the muscles slowly pulling my hips to where they should be. It feels like I've been kicked solidly in the balls.
This is resolving a snapped achilles tendon and has been re-occurring for the last six weeks which is pulling the left side of my hips down back into horizontal alignment after previously pulling them back into lateral alignment some weeks ago. I have been through this cycle with other joints like elbows and shoulders, all resolved.
Indeed I think the biggest problem I've had is with a part of my neck that many chiropractors had difficulty moving. I've found that some Chiropractors are afraid of moving peoples necks and it is a risk, that has to be acknowledged. However I know the few times I found a chiro that could move that problem part of my neck I slept like a baby for months. Most of the time it was me pushing the chiropractor.
I think you're right to call the bullshit parts of chiropractors out, just stick with moving the spine and keeping it moving, it is a key component of the body and you want it to function properly. Having said that I offer the following advice from what I've learned:
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Why play woo roulette with a chiropractor? There is no reason that a chiropractor is required at any stage in the process. Need a nice back rub? Go to a masseur. Need treatment for a physical problem? Go to a physiotherapist.
Of course, it's impossible to prove that the treatment did nothing for you and you would have got better on your own, but hey, why not?
Not really. I'm dealing with a "control" scenario right now.
Every few years, I'll do something that will cause me to pinch a nerve in my neck (lower cervical/upper thoracic) It can be mild, like a pain when moving my arm in a certain way, or severe where I can't turn my head more than 10 degrees to one side. If I wait for it to go away on its own, it can take weeks. If I go to the chiropractor, partial relief (reduced pain, increased mobility) is immediate, and full relief happens in 2-3 days. It may or may not require a second adjustment--but that's up to me.
I'm dealing with a pinched nerve that seems to originate right between my shoulder blades (but I know that "feels like" can be deceptive). I know the cause: Chairs that are too short, and desks that are too high. But I'm in China, and that's the way all the furniture is. I'm using pillows and stacks of foam to deal with the former, but I can't rebuild the office desks to deal with the latter. I can't find a chiropractor here. I know a qualified one could fix this right away.
But I'm also aware that the only thing Chiropractors can do is adjust joints to relieve pressure on nerves and strain on muscles. And a good one will give you advice on how to avoid these problems in the future (like, take your wallet out of your pocket when you sit down).
Dude, change the font of your website, it's a crime against humanity.
Mostly random stuff.
I just use health packs. They cure everything, including demon fire injuries.
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