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Los Angeles Tests Reflective 'Cool Pavement' On Streets (dailynews.com)

mikeebbbd writes: As reported in the Los Angeles Daily News, during the current heatwave various officials swooped down on streets coated with an experimental light-gray sealer that makes the old asphalt into a "cool street" -- and it works, with average temperature differences between coated streets and adjacent old asphalt around 10F. At a large parking lot, the temperature reduction was over 20F. If the material holds up and continues to meet other criteria, LA plans to use it on more pavement rehab projects, which could eventually make a difference in the heat island effect. The "CoolSeal" coating is apparently proprietary to a company named GuardTop LLC, costs $25-40K/mile, and lasts 5-7 years. At that price, it's might not be used a lot, at least at first; typical slurry seals run $15-30K/mile.

123 comments

  1. Wonderful by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 2

    Lighter color coatings reflect more heat. Complete with expert testimonials!

    “I feel a slight difference on the street and inside my apartment,” said Priscilla Corleto, 24, walking Gatsby, her small white Shih Tzu. “Without the AC, it seems cooler.

    1. Re:Wonderful by Jamu · · Score: 1

      43% of the sun's radiation heat is visible, so it should be possible to have a black surface that reflects less heat than a white one. Even one that's perfectly white. Although if the surface could convert the visible light into the infrared or ultraviolet, you can have a black surface that relects all the heat. That would be cool (sorry) to compare to a white surface that absorbs everthing except visible light.

      --
      Who ordered that?
    2. Re:Wonderful by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      I don't know if it's possible to reflect heat, but I'm sure the lighter color reflects more LIGHT.

    3. Re: Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Absorbing visible light and emitting infrared is what black surfaces do and that's the problem. Try thinking before saying stupid things.

    4. Re: Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, a black surface just doesn't reflect visible light. You're conflating black objects with warm objects. Warm objects emit infrared.

    5. Re:Wonderful by Nutria · · Score: 2

      Isn't "heat" just slightly longer waves of red light?

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    6. Re:Wonderful by Jamu · · Score: 2

      Heat is disorganised energy.

      --
      Who ordered that?
    7. Re:Wonderful by Duckman5 · · Score: 1

      Isn't "heat" just slightly longer waves of red light?

      Heat is kinetic energy. Temperature is a measure of the average kinetic energy of a system. It also happens that individual atoms/molecules can transition between energy levels by emitting/absorbing infrared radiation. That's the way that heat from something like the sun can travel through the vacuum of space to reach Earth.

    8. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hooray, they've re-invented Concrete.

    9. Re:Wonderful by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      I don't know if it's possible to reflect heat, but I'm sure the lighter color reflects more LIGHT.

      Maybe 'absorb less' would have been more appropriate. That could also be considered, in relative terms, rejection of some heat compared to a higher absorbing surface.

    10. Re:Wonderful by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Lighter color coatings reflect more heat. Complete with expert testimonials!

      Who could have imagined that a lighter color would be more reflective? Science Marches On!

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    11. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, like a political comment in a physics discussion.

    12. Re: Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Heat" is one of the best movies ever.

    13. Re:Wonderful by rgbatduke · · Score: 1

      I'd correct you, but I'd have to get into all sorts of subtle stuff like the difference between internal energy/enthalpy and heat in the first and second laws. I liked the answer up above -- heat is disorganized energy -- better.

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    14. Re: Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The gun fight after the bank robbery was amazing.

    15. Re: Wonderful by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Absorbing energy increases heat.

    16. Re:Wonderful by rkordmaa · · Score: 1

      It very much is possible to reflect heat, play around with a thermal camera sometimes.

    17. Re: Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A fun way to test a new movie sound system when it is installed.

    18. Re: Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Black fridge.

  2. Plant a tree, save the Earth... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Might be cheaper to plant trees and landscaping in an urban environment. Several tech companies are using rooftop gardens to put the heat to better use.

    https://www.wired.com/2015/03/facebook-moves-new-garden-roofed-fantasyland/

    1. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, would it be more cost effective, when re asphaulting the street, to not add the carbon blackening compound, and just coldpack it back in place? But no, you have to bleach it with a whitener at 20-40 k/ mile? Not whitened it's a light grey?but silly me, it's only taxpayer money, add the carbon black, then the whitener.

    2. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Might be cheaper to plant trees and landscaping in an urban environment.

      That is absurd. There is absolutely no way you are going to plant trees along a mile of urban roadway for $25-$40k. You need to add at least two zeros. Even more in LA where no plant life survives without water, so you would need to trench for irrigation pipes, and pay for ongoing maintenance.

    3. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by paiute · · Score: 1

      I don't think they use carbon black in asphalt. It's basically pitch and rocks and is naturally black. You may be thinking of tires?

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    4. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      There is absolutely no way you are going to plant trees along a mile of urban roadway for $25-$40k. You need to add at least two zeros.

      Good point. When they built the sound walls along the 280 in Silicon Valley, the cost was ~$1M per mile. My father didn't like the work because there was only an 18-inch gap between the slow lane and the scaffolding.

    5. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      Or, would it be more cost effective, when re asphaulting the street, to not add the carbon blackening compound, and just coldpack it back in place?

      Whenever you cross the Oregon/Idaho state line, you can tell by the color of the asphalt. Oregon uses black asphalt, Idaho uses white asphalt. If black asphalt absorbs light and retain heat, maybe white asphalt should be used instead?

      http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/57930938.jpg

    6. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Nutria · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Idaho uses white asphalt.

      Without question, asphalt is black. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asphalt

      That Oregon road is aggregate (aka "little rocks") bound together with bitumen, whereas the Idaho roads are just aggregate.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    7. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Why not both? Planting trees is a good thing for various reasons, but it doesn't seem like a reason not to make other kinds of improvements.

    8. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Well, for parking lots specifically you are much better off providing PV shelter structures than relying primarily on an asphalt coating.

      There is a downside for the reflective coatings; it dramatically increases light pollution. By mixing PV and reflective coatings (where needed) you can address both issues.

    9. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alabama used to use red asphalt on I-10, I-20 and I-65.

    10. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Masonry construction is hard work. It's not as bad as concrete but it's up there. I commend and respect your father for his chosen profession.

      That means they spent around $500k in raw materials alone per mile.

    11. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It would have been cheaper to plant trees back when they were planning this stuff. It would have also increased water retention; Los Angeles receives almost 100% of its current water needs every year in the form of rainfall, and damned near 100% of that runs off into the ocean immediately (with predictable negative consequences for marine life) because they have covered their sprawling collection of dunes and tar pits in concrete and asphalt.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod this up as it does two things. First is provides additional energy from a location that's useless for anything other then vehicle parking - reducing base load on our electrical system and if you add a self charging light (LED based) for night security, you'd be able to get rid of all the damn lamp posts and reduce the light pollution levels a bit.

    13. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Well I'm sure there are all kinds of things you could do to improve various problems. My point was more, why not keep all the possible solutions in mind, and then use a mixture of the solutions that make sense in whatever situation you come across?

      Maybe spraying a coating onto existing asphalt is a good partial solution that can be used in some circumstances. Maybe planting trees is a good partial solution. It also seems to me that there might be a replacement material for asphalt that wouldn't need an additional coating. Maybe there are places where it makes sense to make some kind of shelter or another to provide shade.

      So I don't think I'm necessarily arguing with you. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't really make sense to be dismissive of this idea just because there might also be other potential solutions that would work better in certain circumstances.

    14. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Not really, no. Asphalt is black. The additives were red, that's the aggregate. It contains a lot of iron. The red you see is actually rust.

      Trust me, I know these things. ;-)

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    15. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The city of LA gives away a lot of trees each year with this specific goal. They also have arborists teach classes, etc. In order to help their survival rate.

      There is a huge heat difference between someplace like USC with all of their trees and just a few blocks away in south central with almost no urban forest.

    16. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't want it too white, either. Reflecting too much light up into drivers' eyes is a recipe for accidents.

    17. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Jhon · · Score: 1

      It's an awesome idea! What's not to love? Benefits:

      o It'll be easier to see road-kill and avoid it now.
      o Streets don't look like they are in mourning anymore
      o New surfaces for graffiti!
      o Streets can be seen from space much easier now.
      o We'll all wear pirate eye-patches so when we go in to tunnels and our eyes dont adjust to the darkness fast enough we can just swap the patch to the OTHER eye and not crash!

    18. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Picky, picky, picky. You must be from Opp.

      captcha: Highway

    19. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AAAARRRGGHH!

      Actually, it *is* an awesome idea, if it lasts as long as a normal seal coat on existing asphalt and reduces the temp of the roadway the whole time. If only it didn't cost an extra $10K/mile - that and pinched budgets mean not as many miles sealed every year, which means more potholes and more major repairs later, as if the cratered streets in LA aren't already bad enough.

    20. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      That is absurd. There is absolutely no way you are going to plant trees along a mile of urban roadway for $25-$40k. You need to add at least two zeros. Even more in LA where no plant life survives without water, so you would need to trench for irrigation pipes, and pay for ongoing maintenance.

      25k-40k is about what the average person makes in a year. Surely one person could plant trees along a mile long stretch in a year even if all they had was a single shovel. You can buy 12 inch seedlings for under $1 a piece so it would cost less than $1k to put one every 6 feet. It would take a few years before they got large enough to provide shade but it's not absurd to think that it's possible to do something like this especially considering in most cases, the state already has caretakers that mow and otherwise take care of land adjacent to the roads.

    21. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Even more in LA where no plant life survives without water..."
      Los Angeles has many micro-climates, depending how you count maybe 10 or 20. The temperature range within LA can be 36F /18C. This is true of many coastal cities.
      Large parts of Los Angeles naturally are deserts. I grew up in Pacoima/Arleta; before western people arrived it was Joshua trees and horned toads. Other parts of Los Angeles were forests, riparian, marshland (1/8 mile north of the house I grew up in). Oaks and sycamores are common native trees. Oaks, however, probably wouldn't do well as roadside trees.
      My point is trying to cool a city heat island effect can use some one-size-fits-all solutions, but also solutions for a specific situation.
      You can now go back to slashdotting.

    22. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://www.treepeople.org/

    23. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      https://hkar.ru/PIZn
      http://i95.fastpic.ru/big/2017...
      http://savepic.ru/14553883.jpg
      http://yapx.ru/u/Ld5K

      VIRUS ALERT!!! DON'T VIEW THESE LINKS!!!

    24. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by onepoint · · Score: 1

      No, I won't trust you, but I will ask you to cite a source for future reference so that we can all benefit from your knowledge.

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
    25. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by onepoint · · Score: 1

      hindsight is 20/20, but what you can do is vote for the representative that has similar views and attend public meetings and voice your concerns.
      I happen to be voicing my concerns on the lack of tree's and over the last 2 years, I am finally being heard and they have started some basic plantings.

      if you don't voice your views in a government forum
      and if you don't vote for your local rep's
      then you will get what others want.

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
    26. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by onepoint · · Score: 1

      Well, I got some slight knowledge of this: reference point is South Florida
      A) trees can't be 6 feet apart, trunk to trunk should be about 30'
      B) native species to the area are needed and have a cost basis of about $40

      C) ( blocked views ) you can not plant a tree on a corner
      C1) nor can it be 75 feet from the corner
      C2) drivers side can not be 85 feet from the corner
      C3) Corner does not start at the swale or hellstrip, starts at the property line

      D) digging a hole is not easy, you got top sandy earth then coral.

      E) Native species are in tune to drought, so watering is an option, not a requirement. the city has a truck that waters plants.

      F) North side plantings incur a liability of blocking the sun on private land ( sun rights ), so if I have solar, how will the city compensate me.
      F1) South Side plantings cover the pavement.

      G) if a driver hit's a tree planted by the city, does the driver have a legal right to claim anything to the city? ( this is where DOT studies come into play ) and does the city have to buy insurance for this.

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
    27. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by SandorZoo · · Score: 1

      Might be cheaper to plant trees and landscaping in an urban environment

      It sounds like that's the plan. From the fine article:

      Two years ago, the councilman had passed a motion to test a new cool pavement that, with more trees and reflective rooftop solar panels, he thought could counter longer and extreme heat waves.

    28. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      G) if a driver hit's a tree planted by the city, does the driver have a legal right to claim anything to the city?

      Obviously not. Instead, the city can sue the driver for the cost of a new full-size tree. (Small trees are cheap, replacing a large one is incredibly expensive.)

      You don't plant trees in the middle of the road. You plant them on the side. Drivers are not allowed on the side, so the stupid was doing something wrong even before he hit the tree. Do Americans sue building owners when they go off the road and crash into the side of a building too? Signs and lampposts? Sue the meeting driver when you cross the line and crash into him? Everywhere else, if you err, you're the one paying.

    29. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Reziac · · Score: 2

      Actually, many of the highways in the desert north of Los Angeles used to be lined with elm trees -- which when I was living there, were big mature healthy trees despite getting no supplemental water whatsoever. (Judging from a few specimens where I was able to count rings, they were planted in the 1940s.)

      Used to be, you ask? The tree-topping craze killed most of them, and your tax dollars paid for it, since L.A. County contracted with a tree trimmer who severely cut back all these formerly-healthy trees. Cut off most of a tree's healthy growth and that takes away much of its water and nutrient storage, forces it to regrow leafy suckers to get enough sunlight, and next prolonged dry spell, it starts to die.

      And then they contracted with another "tree service" to cut down the sad remains and grind the stumps, just in case the beleaguered trees attempted to regrow (as elms will do, being persistent buggers).

      Next contract was, I shit you not, for replanting trees along those same highways, tho far as I know this one has not yet been consumated.

      This all happened about 10 years ago. I wish I had before-and-after photos; the contrast was stark and startling.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    30. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      LOL Just for you. The first link I came across:

      Link.

      I kinda am an authority on the subject of highways - though this is tangential knowledge. I did a lot of field work - and modeled traffic. It was my graduate work that helped bring the art of traffic modeling to the computer age. ;-)

      I spent as much time out collecting data as I could. It was much more enjoyable.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    31. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good move its been testing in Cali in a multi-decadal drought where many places trees could be typically planted are already paved over light yards-many lover level rentals in LA have no or very little green space. SO you would need a rapidly growing tree resistant to drought and any endemic insecticidal or fungal pests to Cali.
      Factor in the lack of long term affordable let alone available water and your suggest is right up with Marie's suggestion of , "Let them eat cake."

    32. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      A) trees can't be 6 feet apart, trunk to trunk should be about 30'

      This makes it even cheaper.

      B) native species to the area are needed and have a cost basis of about $40

      C) ( blocked views ) you can not plant a tree on a corner
      C1) nor can it be 75 feet from the corner
      C2) drivers side can not be 85 feet from the corner
      C3) Corner does not start at the swale or hellstrip, starts at the property line

      D) digging a hole is not easy, you got top sandy earth then coral.

      E) Native species are in tune to drought, so watering is an option, not a requirement. the city has a truck that waters plants.

      F) North side plantings incur a liability of blocking the sun on private land ( sun rights ), so if I have solar, how will the city compensate me.
      F1) South Side plantings cover the pavement.

      G) if a driver hit's a tree planted by the city, does the driver have a legal right to claim anything to the city? ( this is where DOT studies come into play ) and does the city have to buy insurance for this.

      As for the rest of this, I almost added an disclaimer to my post that this was not counting any political or lawyer BS.

      I also should have included a link to this article: https://www.bloomberg.com/view...

      My uncle used to put up new telephone poles. I believe it was only a two man crew. It was in the dakotas which was very rocky and hard to dig. They would drop a stick of dynamite in the ground, cover it with a heavy mat and blow it up.

      We have one of the highest levels ever of unemployed men ages 18-65. If we actually stopped all the political BS, we could actually do projects like this.

    33. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by mcmonkey · · Score: 1

      hindsight is 20/20

      Well, yeah. We know that now.

    34. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by onepoint · · Score: 1

      Great then I have a question: I've dreamed that sometime in my future I will be able to use this map as a guild line http://planthardiness.ars.usda... it's the hardiness map, to advise the US of where we need lighter colour pavement. so this leads to the question. how do you lighten pavement without changing slipperiness and or night driving issues?

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
    35. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      This is, technically, not my domain - but I'm tangentially knowledgeable.

      It is my opinion that we use the durable paint spray method. Basically, a spray truck lays down a thin layer of durable paint. Green appears to be about the best color, lowering surface temperatures by ~30 deg. F. One such company is called Emerald Cities, out of Phoenix, AZ. There are a few others competing in the sphere and trials have been pretty good - the surface holds up and seems to actually extend the usable life of the asphalt surface.

      What they do is they pave and, pretty much as soon as the rollers are done, they drive over it and lay down the coat of paint. The tech is pretty simple and the costs aren't really that much more, certainly less than this project. I'm not sure what the current prices are but they were *maybe* an extra $10k/mile with costs expected to decrease with wider adoption.

      There's a few other ways but I am a pretty big fan of this way.

      Again, my domain is traffic modeling - but I loved being out with the road crews and collecting data. ;-) So, I've absorbed a lot and continued to monitor the field. I sold and retired just a bit over ten years ago.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    36. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by MercTech · · Score: 1

      Aggregate is mixed up different stuff and can come in different sizes. Most pavement aggregate in the US is 5/8 minus... 5/8" and smaller.
      Asphalt is aggregate bound up with bitumen (commonly called "coal tar"). You can add stuff to the surface layer such as clay which will vary the color and use of locally procured aggregate will give variations in shade. But, basic asphalt is always black.
      Tarmac, Tar Macadam Surfacing, is a method of long lasting surfacing that goes back to the 18th century and a Scottish engineer named MacAdam. Tarmac is a spec on bed preparation and not just using a high quality asphalt surface.

      Not every road surface is asphalt. One county in my state has pink roads. The use local iron bearing sand for a concrete sheathing on the top of the road that comes out pink in the sunlight.

      --
      NRRPT/RCT
    37. Re: Plant a tree, save the Earth... by MercTech · · Score: 1

      I-10, I-20, and I-65 through Alabama are made of concrete and not asphalt.
      It is a misnomer to consider every pavement to be asphalt.

      --
      NRRPT/RCT
    38. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by MercTech · · Score: 1

      Back before people expected the Gub'mint to do everything; planting trees along the boulevard was an Arbor Day project for school age kids and Boy Scout troops. And, yes, trees along a roadway muffle noise and mitigate the heat radiating from the roadways.

      --
      NRRPT/RCT
    39. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In all of the situations you mentioned, yes, the driver who crashed often sues. They sue the city for placing something where they could hit it and not having it designed to break away and prevent or reduce injury, and in the case of the building for allowing a building too close to the road, the building owner for having a building there and not having it deflect the crash. As for car v. car, there are ALWAYS lawsuits by all parties against all parties; that's why you have insurance. And that's the way the U.S. legal system works.

    40. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by MercTech · · Score: 1

      Actually, you do plant trees in the middle of the road if it has a median strip.

      http://www.nbc-2.com/story/28717937/lee-county-to-remove-palm-trees-on-gateway-blvd

      --
      NRRPT/RCT
    41. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they were really elms (unusual in California), they were goners anyway - Dutch Elm Disease is wiping them out everywhere. Many places where water is available are replanting using Red Oak or Scarlet Oak, which are cheap and slightly drought tolerant. Red Oak, however, has a summertime honeydew (sticky fallout) problem. In the olde dayze, it wasn't unusual for highways to be lined with pepper trees (messy but very drought tolerant) and even eucalyptus (often Blue Gum, which is messy, weak, and non-native).

    42. Re:Plant a tree, save the Earth... by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Actually, no. Dutch Elm disease never got west of the Rockies, because the carrier beetles couldn't survive crossing the mountains. In fact elms are making a comeback in the midwest, the disease having basically killed off its food supply and run out of places to go. And some elms are resistant. Also, most of the elms in the desert are Siberian elms, not American elms.

      Pepper trees and oaks do not survive under the same conditions that elms can (in fact I've never seen an oak in the desert unless it had its roots in someone's septic tank).

      Honey locust is another that seems to do just fine in the desert, with zero support. Junipers are native but the young ones need to be shaded by their elders for a few years til they get established, so they are not easy to spread or cultivate.

      The other trees that do well are olives and Italian stone pines (these are usually the last survivors of prolonged drought, even after all else have died), but they'll need a few wet years to get established (should not be irrigated, tho, because that prevents deep root formation). Eldarica pine and saltcedar (tamarisk) were used a lot as windrows by the now-gone farms, but they were starting to die back as of about 2005.

      These are all totally without irrigation, relying only on rain and groundwater... just some I knew where to find offhand:

      Honey locust
      https://goo.gl/maps/7JmTwCs7Sk...

      Eldarica
      https://goo.gl/maps/7KXaZyXvZX...

      Italian stone pine
      https://goo.gl/maps/Pf3nohGQdE...
      Used to be plum trees there too, but they died about 2005 (and dead trees soon get demolished by the ground termites). There's a much larger stone pine about 2 miles away, but too far off the paved road for Google.

      commercial olive orchard, abandoned about 40 years ago
      https://goo.gl/maps/1c5TzyohYh...
      (unfortunately since mostly cut down and replaced with a solar farm)

      elms -- these are volunteers, much smaller than the ones that were destroyed by the county
      https://goo.gl/maps/THhUE1hKUo...
      (turn around and look north to see how they do next to an occasionally irrigated field)

      native desert juniper
      https://goo.gl/maps/f6AEy3e87Y...

      saltcedar (left) and elm (right)
      https://goo.gl/maps/89kpJh5pzw...
      And a mile or so away, would have loved to show you a great before-and-after of a huge healthy elm, and one the same age that had been topped, but the place burned (had been abandoned since at least the 1970s) and took the trees with it.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  3. Interesting Drone Pix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These surfaces should look white, and not black? More like a pond of water?

  4. Has been used for years here in japan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    works very well, nothing experimental about it.

    1. Re: Has been used for years here in japan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're mistaken. Check your facts.

  5. sunbrellas & floppy hats for the little ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    without our reflective outfits we start to fail around 110F.. sing along .. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wmd+weather ..help end greed/fear/ego based wmd on credit & oil addiction in our lifetime.. thanks again

  6. why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    something like powdered limestone or any powdered mineral that will make the "black" color of asphalt less black and closer to white, its not like this company has a monopoly & patent on the colors in nature

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      something like powdered limestone or any powdered mineral that will make the "black" color of asphalt less black and closer to white, its not like this company has a monopoly & patent on the colors in nature

      hey idiot, the patents are on the processes and manufacturing machinery

      modern patented techniques can achieve a superior result to 2000 year old roman technology

      alas such fine distinctions are lost on your crude "mind"

    2. Re:why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      Why not just go with concrete? It lasts much longer than asphalt and is lighter colored anyway.

    3. Re:why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Concrete is much more expensive than asphalt. It's also harder to install and maintain. While slabs of concrete may last longer, it doesn't do much good if it becomes irregular (kathunk kathunk kathunk .. for 100 miles). It can't be resurfaced as easily (no grinding down the top and pouring 2 inches of additional concrete on top) as asphalt either. It has use cases on grades that are steep, or where heavy travel craters the asphalt in hot areas (stop lights, downhill braking, etc).

    4. Re:why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Earthquakes and concrete isn't a good idea

    5. Re:why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      The tires on all cars are still black anyway. It's going to be hard to keep the lighter colored streets clean of burnouts.

    6. Re:why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blackening from car tires seems to be a non-issue for light colored concert roads.

    7. Re:why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      The simple solution is to use concrete tires on the cars as well.

    8. Re:why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The heat island effect is more about thermal mass than the colour of materials. Concrete has a high thermal mass in comparison to asphalt. That is, it absorbs and retains a lot more heat.

      I'm originally from Australia so I'm biased, but Australian cities offer a good example of the heat-island effect during summer heatwaves. At night, once the sun has gone down, the downtown core of the city has a much higher ambient temperature than the surrounding suburbs, which are warmer than the surrounding countryside. The core of the city stays hot because of all the concrete that is radiating heat accumulated during the day and lack of green spaces in comparison to the suburbs.

      My parents home in in the country and has brick veneer exterior walls and the front of the house catches the afternoon sun. On scorching hot days, the walls absorb so much heat that hours after the sun has gone down you can feel the heat radiating from them when standing next to them. Similarly with the paved driveway - even though it is a light sand colour, it becomes so hot that you cannot walk barefoot on it and hosing it down with water will see the water evaporate in well under a minute. The driveway stays toasty warm all night, whereas the adjacent lawn is nice and cool.

      Yeah, roads get hot there too - so hot that some roads are closed because the asphalt softens/melts and sticks to wheels, but roads aren't the main cause of the heat island effect.

    9. Re:why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      it also is not immune to temperature, either, even in northern climates. and when it fails, the buckles can be rather spectacular.

    10. Re:why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have the opposite problem in Montana. The asphalt has to be soft enough not to freeze and crack in the winter, so in the summer, when you get a flat tire, you have to put a piece of board under your jack or you don't jack up the car, you jack the jack into the pavement.

    11. Re: why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Concrete has significantly lower maintenance costs than asphalt.

    12. Re:why not just mix coloring in to asphalt by coofercat · · Score: 1

      ahh.. concrete tyres, and rubber roads - you could be onto something ;-) No more kids with grazed knees from falling over crossing the road either.

  7. Ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The LAPD has been testing reflective bullets on the African American community for decades and so far none have worried.

  8. Not if you live in desert by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    we're currently ignoring the whole water shortage thing here in Arizona. It'll bite us in the next 20 years. The wealthier parts where I'm at are crazy with how much green there is. It's like they terraformed the landscape. You can do that when water's cheap due to subsidies but that's not going to last forever.

    --
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  9. Where does the reflected heat go? by WoodstockJeff · · Score: 1

    The coating make some of the solar-sourced infrared heat NOT get absorbed by the roadway. Does it magically go straight back to space, or does it reflect onto other structures, heating THEM up?

    I suspect mostly the latter in an urban environment. So, how does changing WHAT absorbs the heat affect the overall retention of the heat island?

    Using plants absorbs more CO2, but the heat increases evaporation.

    1. Re:Where does the reflected heat go? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This reminds me of Walt Disney concert hall when it was first built. It perfectly reflected the sun to be a nearby condo building which raised the temperature inside of the condo building,

    2. Re:Where does the reflected heat go? by caseih · · Score: 1

      Yes as a matter of fact, it would reflect a significant portion back into space. Obviously some of the IR rays would go in all directions and hit buildings and trees and things.

      Nothing magical about that. In fact you can use a solar reflector to freeze water at night.

    3. Re:Where does the reflected heat go? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fresno City Hall is all glass & polished metal. Standing joke was that at certain sun angles it could bring down airliners over Madera.

  10. Something cheaper and lasts longer by quonset · · Score: 1

    Trees and vegetation reduce the temperature by ten degrees F, cost less and last longer.

    But hey, keep paving over every blade of grass and cutting down every tree in sight then wonder why it's so hot.

    1. Re:Something cheaper and lasts longer by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 2

      That is great and all until you realize that the places that need this were built on desert.

    2. Re:Something cheaper and lasts longer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize grass aren't native to Los Angeles right? It's insane how Americans have this idea to grow grass in areas where they have no right to be in. And they have the gall to complain about water shortages.

      Are they going to plant young trees or buy mature ones? First option takes too long and second costs too much. They also need to be maintained. Not to mention they might have to remove few lanes to create enough space for trees and vegetation. Which could increase congestion.

    3. Re:Something cheaper and lasts longer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What an idiotic comment. It's a desert you buffoon! Who is going to pay to water all of these trees and maintain them?

    4. Re:Something cheaper and lasts longer by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You do realize grass aren't native to Los Angeles right? It's insane how Americans have this idea to grow grass in areas where they have no right to be in.

      While I agree with you in principle, in practice much of the problem is that they are growing soft, lush grass which both feels and looks nice. If they really must have grass, there are varieties they can plant which consume something like ten percent of the water, and are still nice enough to walk around on.

      Of course, golf courses have to have nice soft grass... so fuck them.

      --
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    5. Re:Something cheaper and lasts longer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Trees and vegetation reduce the temperature by ten degrees F, cost less and last longer.

      But hey, keep paving over every blade of grass and cutting down every tree in sight then wonder why it's so hot.

      I've actually done a lot of work in this area, and the trees and vegetation actually end up costing substantially more in most highway/major street use cases, since there are significant additional costs associated with planting, maintenance, cleanup of debris, and repair to damage caused by the vegetation itself to the road surface.

      There's also the fact that for high volume roads, you can't plant vegetation on the road surface itself, which retains far more heat than do medians, shoulders, etc. There are permeable pavement designs which use grassed-in cutouts and also have the added benefit of decreasing runoff, but these are not really suitable for high volume roadways and make more sense in parking lots, driveways, etc.

      As a heat island reducer, plant cover makes more sense on rooftops, which are stationary and not subject to the constant stresses of traffic. Of course, reflective materials are useful there, as well.

    6. Re:Something cheaper and lasts longer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am. Sign me up.

  11. What about shade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not install solar panels approximately 20 ft (6 meters) over the roads. Leave enough gaps to allow sunlight to shine through. I bet many solar developers will get on board if the city offered free rent with tax breaks. Only if there's a billionaire who has a home in the city and just happens to own a solar power company. Maybe he's too busy being bored.

  12. Maximize Effectiveness/Cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Normally you sell coatings by area but if they only sell it by the mile make sure you only use it on wide streets - you'll get a far larger surface area then, maximizing the amount of heat reflected.

    1. Re: Maximize Effectiveness/Cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be absurd. Obviously you simply declare that the interstate is four lanes long, not four lanes wide.

  13. Concrete.... by drew_92123 · · Score: 2

    Using concrete without a coating of asphalt on top has a similar effect... how about just paving with concrete. It lasts longer, requires less maintenance, and is cooler. If made thick enough it can also be ground down to "resurface" it several times without any need to add more concrete unlike asphalt roads.

    Using asphalt is only done because asphalt is a byproduct of the petroleum refining process and the oil companies have done everything they can to ensure they can sell their waste and force us to use it so they can avoid having to pay disposal fees for the stuff.. And while asphalt *can* be recycled, it also pollutes more than most folks care to believe. The pollution caused by the use of asphalt is right there with the pollution caused by tires... both of them break down into smaller and smaller pieces and make their way into the environment... and the stuff is everywhere, not unlike the lead that used to spew from tailpipes just a few decades ago. Manufacturers of asphalt and tires are even responsible for a far greater evil than simply polluting because we need roads and tires and don't have another option at the moment... the pollution they cause is far greater than it needs to be thanks to efforts to make the products as cheap as possible which leads to premature and excessive wear. Good quality asphalt and tires wear out far slower and therefore pollute less, but greed makes that at best a tertiary concern for profit motivated corporations.

    1. Re:Concrete.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly.

      Asphalt causes cancer.
      Governments LOVE asphalt because they get to constantly TAX the people to give it to contractor friends to install and maintain every fucking year.
      NEVER underestimate the power of constant taxation over you.

      Concrete basically lasts forever when properly built.
      All you need to do is shave it down once in a while.

  14. Learn english, EditorDavid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At that price, it's might not be used a lot

    You wrote "At that price, it is might not be used a lot". Learn when to use its vs it's. It's basic pre-school english.

  15. go away energy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're suffering from an overabundance of energy so we have to convince some of it to go away.

  16. alt.chrome.the.moon by lazarus · · Score: 1

    This is going to make chroming the moon considerably less cool.

    --
    I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
  17. Finally! by nospam007 · · Score: 0

    Now Hippies can walk barefoot in July without burning their feet.

  18. What is it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That someone has a patent on it can't mean that the composition is a secret. What if turns out to be toxic?

    1. Re:What is it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're worried about it being toxic? What, like licking asphalt is good for you?

      I'm thinking about driveway sealant, might keep it from being so hot there, too...

  19. It's basically sunscreen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  20. Re:Not if you live in desert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's like they terraformed the landscape.

    True terraforming would increase humidity and lower temperatures. It could even make the area "naturally" lush. Somehow I doubt that's what they've done though.

  21. Re:Not if you live in desert by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

    Arizona is absurd. I just read where they are going to plant a zillion trees in order to cool Phoenix down. In different issue of the same magazine, I read about the severe water shortages and high cost of the Central Arizona Project. I thought trees needed water.

  22. Concrete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Concrete does the same thing and has been in use for pavement for a century. It can also be sealed with even lighter sealant.

  23. Re: Bus stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Its because you live in one of those strange cities like LA where public transit is curiously not seen as a necessity. Most major metropolitans have robust public transit systems that everyone uses.

  24. Update... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    After playing ambient music as it cruised through space after booster separation, the second stage executed a successful short burn to raise its orbit. In about five minutes it will try releasing satellites.

    1. Re:Update... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      First satellite just deployed, with more coming at 100-sec intervals.

    2. Re:Update... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what the fuck is wrong with you?

  25. I assumed traffic engineers worked this stuff out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I assumed that it was too expensive to make a functional nonblack asphalt, or else it would have been used a long time ago. Guess I was wrong.

  26. Concrete is grey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Concrete is grey

  27. Tokyo, too. by lindseyp · · Score: 2

    They started doing this in Tokyo several years ago. They painted a lot of major roads green. I was worried about them being slippery in the rain, at first, but they turned out to be no worse than bare asphalt, and I believe they helped stem the heat island effect.

    --
    j'ai découvert une démonstration vraiment admirable (de ce théorème général) que cette si
  28. Cool Pavement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it's called grass.

  29. Physics works! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And if you paint them white, you might get another 10 degrees. Not that anyone is going to notice a 20 degree drop when the pavement is pushing 200 deg.

  30. thnk of the.. by JThundley · · Score: 1

    Won't somebody think of the lizards?!