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Mozilla Employee Denied Entry To the United States (gizmodo.com)

Reader Artem Tashkinov writes: Daniel Stenberg, an employee at Mozilla and the author of the command-line tool curl, was not allowed to board his flight to the meeting from Sweden—despite the fact that he'd previously obtained a visa waiver allowing him to travel to the US. Stenberg was unable to check in for his flight, and was notified at the airport ticket counter that his entry to the US had been denied. Although Mozilla doesn't believe that the incident is related to Trump's travel ban, the incident stirred fears among international tech workers, who fear they'll miss out on work and research opportunities if they're not allowed to travel to the US. The situation even caught the eye of Microsoft's chief legal officer Brad Smith, who tweeted at Stenberg to offer legal assistance.

37 of 420 comments (clear)

  1. Protectionist state by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As the US moves towards isolation and protectionism with both its immigration and tariff plans, it may turn into another hermit kingdom clone of DPRK and you could see states like Russia or China move to preeminence in world affairs, with Trump presiding over a culturally homogeneous but irrelevant and poverty stricken country.

    1. Re:Protectionist state by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I can't imagine Congress is going to let this go on forever. The potential damage to the US economy is enormous. The Republicans just have to figure out how to utterly fuck the Administration over while still looking like they're on the President's side.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:Protectionist state by slack_justyb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can't imagine Congress is going to let this go on forever.

      Well the cynic in me thinks that in order for it to stop, Congress would have to *act*. There's been a whole lot of *not acting* going on in Congress as of late, and I'm perplexed as to why an economic downturn would induce that to suddenly change. Considering the most recent AHCA version to come out of the Senate, it doesn't seem like they care if the citizens die, so economic hardship should be the least of their worries. Even if it's industry that's hurting, it's not GOP industry hurting.

    3. Re:Protectionist state by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Interesting

      A lot of that "none-acting" has been tactical. Look at health care. It's clear that neither House or Senate Republicans are really all that keen to further health care reform, at least not until after the 2018 mid-terms. So they put together legislation that they can't even convince a majority of their peers to support (let alone the Democrats), and which clearly is deeply unpopular with voters (the House bill had an approval rating of just 27%, and I can't imagine the Senate bill is going to be any more popular).

      What it looks like to me is that Republican lawmakers know they have an unsuitable man in the White House, but political realities mean they can't be obstructionist in the same way they were with Obama, or in the way they intended to be with Clinton. Instead of being angrily and righteously obstructionist, they're just going to create a series of situations in which nothing much happens at all. They'll shake the President's hand, they'll praise him in the media, they'll keep up the appearances of being one big happy party, and meanwhile do everything in their power to keep that idiot from completely fucking things up.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:Protectionist state by MAXOMENOS · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I can't imagine Congress is going to let this go on forever.

      What exactly do we expect for Congress to do? Let's be clear here: I despise Trump, but in all likelihood, this is INS bullshit unrelated to the Trump executive order. The EO only covers six countries; Sweden isn't one of them. Even if Sweden was one of them, Stenberg has a clear relationship with a US Company. So the real question is, does Stenberg have a valid work visa? Most of the people I hear being denied entry into the US are denied because they had a paying US gig and got the wrong kind of visa. The other possibility is that Stenberg made political remarks that the US government doesn't like, and, unfortunately, the US government has denied entry to persons for that reason for decades.

    5. Re:Protectionist state by quonset · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I can't imagine Congress is going to let this go on forever

      You can't? Considering no one in the Republican-controlled Congress has a backbone and as a result, are failing in their Constitutional duties, it is quite easy to seem them cowering like the cowards they are and letting this go on.

      The potential damage to the US economy is enormous.

      Which is what I'm hoping for. Yes, you read that right. I want damage to the U.S. economy because of the con artist's incompetence. Then we get to hear more of his deflections about it not being another of his failures, how it's not his fault the economy tanked, how it's Obama's fault, how Hillary would have been worse, how everyone else is to blame except him. It will be a classic case of malignant narcissism on full display.

    6. Re:Protectionist state by Dahan · · Score: 5, Informative

      Even if Sweden was one of them, Stenberg has a clear relationship with a US Company. So the real question is, does Stenberg have a valid work visa? Most of the people I hear being denied entry into the US are denied because they had a paying US gig and got the wrong kind of visa

      I think the summary and article make it clear that he doesn't have a work visa; he was trying to enter through the visa waiver program. And I agree that the lack of work visa is probably the issue--you can enter through the VWP or on a B-1 business visitor visa to attend a business meeting if you're employed by a foreign company and are not being paid by a US company. But Stenberg's a (presumably paid) employee of Mozilla. IANAIL and all that, but my understanding is that since he's being paid by a US company, coming to the US for a meeting with that company is considered work, and he's no eligible for VWP or a B-1 visa.

    7. Re:Protectionist state by Dorianny · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's because what is being pushed thru is not "health care reform" but a partial rollback of the ACA reform. The math is difficult for the GOP in the Senate because there is around 30 senators from States that didn't expand Medicaid and would like funding cut to the program immediately and around 20 from states that did expand Medicaid and will see the vast majority of the expected 22 million looses insurance coverage. Of course Trump going from celebrating on the White House lawn, to calling it "mean" is not helping things much

    8. Re:Protectionist state by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 4, Informative

      You have basically assumed other people's income is yours to decide what to do with.

      And liberals don't like sending half their taxes to the military, but you don't hear them whining about tyranny every goddamned second. Some of your taxes are gong to go to things you don't like, that's what civilization looks like. Man the fuck up already.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    9. Re:Protectionist state by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      And this isn't that big a deal. When I worked for ATI (Canadian company) as part of one of the US-based subsidiaries, we all had to get Canadian work visas. Well, initially no one did that and it was fine, just say the trip was for "business meetings". But then we had one guy that was going there a ton, as he now had direct reports in Canada, and I guess the Canadian immigration folks took notice. Pretty sure he was denied entry, after which we all had to get work visas.

      Whatever one thinks about the travel ban, this is almost-certainly 100% unrelated. Someone just made a stink for political reasons. They've every right to do that, but we should not read more into this than some guy was denied entry.

    10. Re:Protectionist state by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's because what is being pushed thru is not "health care reform" but a partial rollback of the ACA reform.

      The current bills in the House and, more so, the Senate are more about cutting taxes, almost entirely benefiting the wealthy, than anything having to do with actual heath care, to allow conservative tax reform, also almost entirely benefiting the wealthy, to proceed using special procedural rules known as reconciliation to pass changes with a simple majority vote and avoid a Democratic filibuster. "Legislation cannot add to the deficit outside the customary 10-year budget window and be eligible for this procedural protection."

      This is why Congress started with health-care "reform" before tax reform - to save money in the budget on the former so it can be squandered on the latter.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    11. Re:Protectionist state by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm still trying to find where in the Constitution the US Federal government is charged with telling what I have to do where my health and health care is concerned.

      I'm guessing somewhere in here:

      We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

      Believe it or not, your health and health care (and health insurance) status may affect others and vice-versa. At some point, hopefully you will realize that we're all in this together.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  2. Even though this has nothing to do with a policy by SensitiveMale · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't like, I'm going to say "fuck it" and link them anyways.

  3. Sweden by JBMcB · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So he's traveling from Sweden, which has nothing to do with the travel ban. So why does the article keep mentioning the travel ban?

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re:Sweden by d3bruts1d · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because Gizmodo has become overly political since the fall of Gawker.

    2. Re:Sweden by Baloroth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because otherwise there'd be no story (actually, there is no story, but that doesn't stop journalists from writing one). The US, like every other country in the world, has immigration controls, which are handled by individual agents who have the ability to allow or deny just about anyone (aside from US citizens, who cannot be denied entry) for just about any reason, because non-citizens have no right to entry. Of course, they rarely do so as long as you have the right visa/waivers/come from a country with the right treaties, but they always *can*. It might not stick (i.e. you may be able to appeal the decision and enter later), and the agent will likely end up fired if they act arbitrarily against policy, but it can always happen.

      I'm not going to give Gizmodo the click to read TFA, but my guess is he probably didn't actually have all his paperwork in order, but that's just a guess.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    3. Re:Sweden by david_thornley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, there is a story. Person in Sweden going to the US on routine business, having presumably done the appropriate paperwork, is denied entry. This is bad.

      The only reason international meetings happen is to get people from other countries. For this to happen, potential attendees have to have a high degree of conference that they can get to them. If this becomes dubious for meetings in the US, such meetings will not happen in the US, which hurts assorted people in the US, including the business community and the scientific community.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    4. Re:Sweden by arth1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It has already had an impact.
      For those who won't bother to follow the link, Mark Nottingham said of QUIC meetings:

      2) We won't hold any further interim meetings in the US, until there's a change in this situation. This means that we'll either need to find suitable hosts in Canada or Mexico, or our meeting rotation will need to change to be exclusively Europe and Asia.

  4. Re:No visa by LubosD · · Score: 3, Informative

    He does not, but he needs an ESTA registration (visa waiver) and his application seems to have been retrospectively rejected.

  5. Re:No visa by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

    He doesn't have a visa, he has a visa waiver (ESTA). Anyone who doesn't need a visa to visit the US needs to pay $14 to fill in a web form that contains the same information that you'll give to the airlines and which the airlines are required by law to provide to the US government. In return, this data is entered into a database. It specifically does not grant you permission to enter the US (though you can't enter the US without paying the $14). This replaces the old green visa waiver form that you used to have to fill in on the plane prior to landing.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  6. Re:No visa by nicolaiplum · · Score: 4, Informative

    Even if you are eligible for a visa waiver, you have to get an electronic authorisation to travel from the Electronic System for Travel Authorisation.

    I.e. you have to pass a check to have your visa waived, before you can try to have your visa waived, and your approval can be withdrawn at any time. Neither ESTA nor even a visa is reliable, you are still at risk of being refused (and losing your money on hotels, flight tickets, your business, travel, or study opportunity, etc). The USA (and some other countries) cannot be trusted to be reliable in this, the USA in particular.

    --
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled"
  7. Re:Someone checked the wrong box by nicolaiplum · · Score: 4, Informative

    Note that his ESTA was approved, then rescinded. Someone specifically went to withdraw his approval after it was issued. That is not lazy non approval, that is malicious retroactive denial.

    --
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled"
  8. We are going to Make America Great Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    We don't need fruity euro techies here. We are going to all have jobs in clean coal!

    1. Re: We are going to Make America Great Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Although Mozilla does not believe this incident is related to the Trump travel ban, they could not resist stirring up some shit anyway.

  9. Just Read Last Sentence by TheCowSaysMoo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Get past all the political mumbo jumbo that has nothing to do with the situation and read the last sentence, which comes from a Customs and Border Protection spokesperson: "“Please know that we process 1.2 million people every day—around 700 are denied entry for various reasons. Having an approved ESTA does [not] guarantee a foreign national free entry into the US All travelers including those coming from visa waiver countries must clear all 60 grounds of inadmissibility.”

    So, this guy is one of 700 people who are daily denied entry for NOTHING related to Trump's travel ban, but because he has a Twitter account and is a Mozilla employee, "AHHHH!!! TRUMP TRAVEL BAN!!! AHHHH!!! IT'S GOING TO GET EVERYBODY!!! AHHHH!"

    In other news, water is wet.

  10. Re:I sure hope by B33rNinj4 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's a weak argument. NO Green Party member would have voted for Clinton, ever. The DNC should have fielded a better candidate. As for the article, as much as people want to complain. traveling to the US is not a right. You can be denied entry for pretty much any reason.

  11. Re:Someone checked the wrong box by arth1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    My guess is that it's because a Google for him leads to https://daniel.haxx.se/

    In the minds (or what passes for it) of US immigration and border control, that domain name means he must be a dangerous haxxor...

  12. Re:Not related to Trump's ban... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Would that be the barbell curl or the dumbbell curl?

    Beats me. I use a machine at the gym.

    Your gym has a snack machine too?

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  13. Re:No visa by jittles · · Score: 5, Funny

    Except Canadians, we do not pay anything to enter the USA.

    Except your soul! (evil laugh)

  14. Re:I sure hope by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    as much as people want to complain. traveling to the US is not a right.

    I don't think many people are arguing that these travel restrictions are illegal, just that they are stupid and counterproductive. My company has offices in San Jose and Shanghai. Since our employees in China have difficulty getting visas to come to America for meetings and conferences, the Americans go to Shanghai instead, putting money into the Chinese economy, eating at Chinese restaurants, and staying at Chinese hotels.

    Since American employees incur these additional travel expenses, we are more biased toward hiring in China instead.

    No country has ever thrived by shutting itself off from the world.

    Anyway, I am going to Shanghai in July for 3 months, and my family is going with me. We plan to spend plenty of American dollars trying every new restaurant on Nanjing Road, all at company expense (tax deductible). Thank you Donald Trump!

  15. Why is this flamebait? Stein was complicit. by Glasswire · · Score: 3

    Not relevant if you think he was denied some reason other than Trump's travel ban, but if Trump was the cause, Stein's involvement is documented. She was actively recruited by Flynn and Russians. Check the lovely photo

  16. Re:He's not brown, what's the problem? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When a story completely contradicts your theory about institutional racism, cite racism anyway.

    Do you have a one-track mind??

  17. Re:I sure hope by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The DNC should have fielded a better candidate.

    1. The "DNC" chose their candidate about as much as Russia chose our president. Democratic voters "fielded" their candidate. By a big majority.

    2. You're obviously not talking "better" as in qualifications, you're talking about someone who gave voters the warm fuzzy feelings. Sure, Hillary did not. Speaking as a democrat who voted for Hillary in the primary, I'm very sorry I overestimated the average voter. No sarcasm, I can't fathom what I was thinking at the time. I guess I thought if the country willingly voted for a black dude twice they'd be capable of voting for a competent woman instead of a reality TV show host who has declared bankruptcy many times? My kids and I are going to be paying the price for that blunder. Next time I'll be sure to vote in the primary for whatever white dude I think will be the least offensive to the hick states and hope he picks competent people to actually do shit.

  18. Re:Nutty Reublican Base by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The nutty Republican base loves Trump's travel bans.

    Err...I"m guessing the "ban" had nothing to do with this.

    I mean, I'm taking a wild ass guess, but with a last name of "Stenberg", I'm guessing he's not from one of the few 'banned' majority muslim countries.

    And for that matter, I"m willing to go out on a limb and guess, that we in the US aren't exactly getting a lot of our high tech or other types or work from those few middle eastern countries listed on the temporary "ban".

    I don't think the US is going to miss that much from those countries....and I seriously doubt this gentleman is caught up in the 'ban'.

    Halting travel from these few countries seems quite reasonable.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  19. Re:I sure hope by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You do realize that setting up a video conference would greatly reduce your travel costs

    You do realize that using video conferencing instead of face-to-face collaboration doesn't work near as well in practice as it does in theory?

    If Skype was a perfect substitute for commuting, the highways of Silicon Valley would be empty every morning.

  20. Re:I sure hope by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You do realize that setting up a video conference would greatly reduce your travel costs and still allow you to meet with you counterparts in China?

    That depends entirely on the meeting. Video conferences are good for some very basic meetings. Yet there's a world of things that technology just won't change. Strong inter-company relationships aren't made over a video screen. They aren't even made in a meeting room. They're made at the coffee machine, they are made at the dinner table, in the bar, while walking to the car.

    My company not only has a policy that specific things need to be face to face, but also a policy of a group outing somewhere when they happen. There's a good reason for it too. Knowing someone on a personal level helps a lot on the work level too.

    Not every company counts pennies, some invest in themselves.

  21. Re:I sure hope by 14erCleaner · · Score: 4, Funny

    You do realize that using video conferencing instead of face-to-face collaboration doesn't work near as well in practice as it does in theory?

    It's like phone sex vs in-person sex. Of course, most programmers wouldn't know that.

    --
    Have you read my blog lately?