Slashdot Mirror
Sony Using Copyright Requests To Remove Leaked PS4 SDK From the Web (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Sony appears to be using copyright law in an attempt to remove all traces of a leaked PlayStation 4 Software Development Kit (PS4 SDK) from the Web. That effort also seems to have extended in recent days to the forced removal of the mere discussion of the leak and the posting of a separate open source, homebrew SDK designed to be used on jailbroken systems. The story began a few weeks ago, when word first hit that version 4.5 of the PS4 SDK had been leaked online by a hacker going by the handle Kromemods. These SDKs are usually provided only to authorized PS4 developers inside development kits. The SDKs contain significant documentation that, once made public, can aid hackers in figuring out how to jailbreak consoles, create and install homebrew software, and enable other activities usually prohibited by the hardware maker (as we've seen in the wake of previous leaks of PlayStation 3 SDKs). While you can still find reference to the version 4.5 SDK leak on places like Reddit and MaxConsole, threads discussing and linking to those leaked files on sites like GBATemp and PSXhax, for example, appear to have been removed after the fact. Cached versions of those pages show links (now defunct) to download those leaked files, along with a message from KromeMods to "Please spread this as much as possible since links will be taken down... We will get nowhere if everything keeps private; money isn't everything." KromeMods notes on Twitter that his original tweet posting a link to the leaked files was also hit with a copyright notice from Sony.
Usually it's desirable to get SDKs into the hands of programmers.
Consoles are DRM-laden garbage anyways. I have computers that were cheaper and are more powerful than a ps4/xbone.
That's not how copyright works. Copyright is not a trademark. They can sue in 50 years and have exactly the same claim as they do today.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Well, the last revisions of the ps3 still haven't been hacked, so they must be doing something right.
Just when I thought I found a discussion that no one could possibly shoehorn politics into...
Both PS4 and Xbox One are capable x86 machines, locked into proprietary operating systems. I'm not sure what will come out of this, but if they were to properly open up the device, say to be able to install a Linux distribution, we'll have a truly cheap and solid piece of hardware.
I'm not holding my breath though, this is only the first step, and a lot needs to happen before Linux on PS4 would be possible.
A few hacked up, rooted game consoles isn't going to cause developers to flee the platform. Movies are pirated and they still make them. Music is bootlegged and they still sing. Applications are copied and they still write programs. They try to make it sound like the end of the world but it is a very small percentage. It's called shrinkage and every business has it.
Yes, that is why there are no games for any of the previous consoles, and no game companies made any money in the past.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Would this be enough documentation to enable a KVM based emulator for the PS4 to be developed? Gaming PCs would easily b powerful enough to run a PS4 game if they're executing native X86 instructions and can passthrough the GPU layer to a modern graphics card.
Copyright law being used for what it was intended then? Rather than something snarky like the summary claims - people are distributing the SDK without permission or reasonable grounds for fair use, and Sony is using the law to prevent someone from distributing copyrighted material without permission...
AAA titles would continue to sell just fine regardless, if it is what users want & prices are reasonable.
The DRM 'features' in today's consoles allow original owner (Sony here) to act as gatekeeper and control when, where, by whom, and what gets released for the platform. In theory, enabling a 'one size for all' where titles released for the platform will Just Work (tm) and thus create the plug & play experience you expect from a console. But ultimately of course (where it conflicts with end-users' interests), to maximize company's bottom line rather than home users' value of the console. Homebrew options break that model and allow the software ecosystem to drift out of original owner's hands. That is why eg. Sony will fight tooth & nail to prevent that.
Your PS4 will become worthless (in terms of getting access to new games) if the platform is hacked.
Even if that were true, it would still serve users to have a full-on hack & homebrew scene: when Sony stops releasing new titles. So in the long run, it's always beneficial to users when a console gets hacked / jailbroken or whatever. Just a matter of what's the optimal timing for which hack(s) to get out.
Having a publicly available SDK doesn't mean the 'platform is hacked'. If that was true, Linux, Windows and MacOS (and iOS) would all be 'hacked' completely. (All these operating systems even have their SDKs available for free, if not downright included in the base OS install!
And there would be zero available games on any PC operating system.
Realistically, this really means the "PS4" OS isn't as "secure" as Sony wants it to be. Apple have no qualms about releasing the SDK for iOS.
The only way to get rid of it now is with a rootkit!
Spare us the rhetoric about homebrew and stuff. Anyone who had been playing console games knew the main reason for jailbreaking a console is to run pirated games.
I live in Asia, and experience showed that having a jailbroken system is inversely correlated with the number of games having localized versions: PS2 broken since launch - nearly none, PS3/4 not jailbroken long after launch - many localised games.
I own a PS4, I say big "Fuck You" to people trying to JB the PS4, you are trying to ruin the gaming platform I play on.
Yep, sure did kill the PC gaming industry right in its tracks. Why there hasn't been a game on that platform since the early 1980s, let alone any AAA titles! Piracy sure made that impossible! Why, the mere notion of making anything that can be acquired for free for any reason whatsoever, caused developers to flee from development for that platform screaming, sometimes literally. There's a reason there aren't any commercial apps, let alone games, whatsoever for x86/AMD64!
How much was your PC that plays 4k Mirror's Edge Catalyst on high or better settings? How much is the Xbox One X that will play it in 4k?
Does yours play 4k Blu-Ray movies? How about 3D 1080 Blu-Ray movies?
Learn to love Alaska
I can buy a blu-ray BURNER for $30 at my local frys electronics. Try again.
What would I need a BluRay drive for?
On the other hand, games cost 30-50 bucks instead of 50-70. Now count the games you have for your console. Multiply with 20. Add the price of your console. And now tell me you can't get a PC that can easily play 4k games for that money.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Including games? Well, depends on how many games you have, if you only have 3 or 4, probably the XBox is cheaper overall.
If you're buying 2-3 games a month like me, it doesn't take very long to break even.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Total cost of ownership is the phrase to look for. Yes, the console itself is cheaper. But the games are more expensive. It's a bit like with the inkjet printers, they, too, get sold at a loss because the company hopes that you'll use a lot of their overpriced ink.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
as Linux is already fully running on the PS4. Basically more or less everything is already reverse engineered, ... https://github.com/fail0verflo...
And how much does the PC which can play 4K games cost?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Yes they sue 15 year old kids. That's why nobody touched the PS3 after that. Sony is a piece of shit company and will continue to be so. A lot of the qualified hackers that make home brew stuff probably won't even touch this information for fear of being bent over in court by Sony. And many have vowed to never use a Sony product again since the lawsuit. I would give citation but I'm on my phone at work, it's real easy to find on google. "Sony sues PS3 hacker" should get you all the info you need.
Well the GPU is the expensive part. But I could build one that also does VR using a gtx1060 and AMD cpu's for probably $500-600 which is less than any new console costs. Granted the ps4 is cheaper than that but wasn't when it first came out. And still couldn't handle what the $500-600 PC could, while at the same time being a PC so you don't have to buy a console for games, and a PC for everything else.
PS4 launch price was $400.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
"We will get nowhere if everything keeps private; money isn't everything"
Then give your own stuff away for free.
They are using copyright to remove information they do not own: the open source SDK not written by Sony. This is a clear abuse of copyright law. They should be placed in a copyright "time out" box for doing so: temporarily open season on all Sony copyrights. They are willfully and knowingly abusing our laws for their own gain.
At a philosophical level, I wish that all proprietary, undocumented computing hardware fails. I wish that they are not viable products and fail in the marketplace. I miss the days of C64, Amiga, and Atari ST. I think everyone would be happier if we returned to that business model. Companies would still make money. If the Xbox, Switch, and PS4 disappear today I think that would be perfectly fine.
Now add in a few games and the pc starts to look like a lot better value. Plus you can actually get work done on the pc.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
Many moons ago, the MPAA tried this trick and they failed because it was posted all over the internet and on T-Shirts even! DVD Jon FTW.
Good luck with that Sony. You can't bend the universe to your whims. I hate to break to you. But by all means, go ahead and try.
We'll make great pets
Magnet link
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
The only thing that makes it non-controversial is the fact that a) most people don't understand the stakes yet, b) corporations would rather people not know just how much power they've got over this until it's too late for the citizens to do anything about it, and c) the fact that both parties are thoroughly bought and paid for on this topic.
And related to b) is d) the tendency of citizens of Slashdot's home country to get their news from channels that share a parent company with a member of the Motion Picture Association of America. 21CF owns 20th Century Fox and Fox News. National Amusements owns Paramount and CBS News. Disney owns Walt Disney Pictures and ABC News. Time Warner owns Warner Bros. Pictures and CNN. I shouldn't have to explain NBCUniversal.
It turns out Sony is the only MPAA studio parent not to own a U.S. TV news outlet.
What would I need a BluRay drive for?
So as not to spend $150 to download a single 30 GB game over a satellite Internet connection whose provider charges an estimated $5 per GB. I'll concede that discs aren't quite as much of a compelling feature in an area served by high-volume wired ISP.
Plus you can actually get work done on the pc.
You can "get work done on" a $200 compact laptop or even a $60 Raspberry Pi 3 bundle with keyboard, mouse, storage, and case. And you can use it at the same time that someone else in the household is using the PS4.
PCs with integrated graphics processors have met or exceeded the previous generation (PlayStation 3) consoles since roughly Ivy Bridge, and that was four Core i5 generations ago. And only a PC can (legitimately) run fan-made mods.
I concede that both Steam and PlayStation Store are digital restrictions management. But unlike PlayStation Store, Steam doesn't lock you out of modding games that are built for modding. Nor does it lock you out of running games from other DRM providers (such as Origin) or from DRM-free sources (such as Itch and GOG).
Having a publicly available SDK doesn't mean the 'platform is hacked'. If that was true, Linux, Windows and MacOS (and iOS) would all be 'hacked' completely. (All these operating systems even have their SDKs available for free, if not downright included in the base OS install!
The Windows 10 S SDK does not run on Windows 10 S. It requires Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro.
(And there are rumors that Microsoft may discontinue Home in favor of S.)
Plus you can actually get work done on the pc.
You can "get work done on" a $200 compact laptop or even a $60 Raspberry Pi 3 bundle with keyboard, mouse, storage, and case. And you can use it at the same time that someone else in the household is using the PS4.
On the flip side, I can play a PC game while someone else in the family watches a movie. What's your point? (As a side note, this is also why I really like my Switch)
If you like couch gaming and you like a hassle-free experience, then I get it--a console is clearly your best value, and the PS4 is where it has been at this current generation. But if you like mods, private servers, backwards compatibility that lasts essentially forever, precise controls, getting buckets of games for practically nothing during Steam sales--not to mention entire genres of games that are unavailable on a console--then a PC is your best value.
AND you can write your resume on it, edit photos and video, do CAD, development projects, and post on Slashdot with a keyboard like God intended.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
What do you call 4K gaming?
I've got a nice old system that can 4K game Quake 3 at well over 300 FPS.
It's probably worth $90 in its entirety without the monitor.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
If you like couch gaming [...] a console is clearly your best value, and the PS4 is where it has been at this current generation. But if you like mods [...] then a PC is your best value.
Where does that leave people who like to mod their couch games?
I agree with you that a device marketed as a Personal Computer ought to allow the Person who owns it to control what Computing is done, and the PlayStation 4 and PlayStation Vita are explicitly not Personal Computers by that measure. Someone who owns one of those but desires features available only in a Personal Computer needs to replace it with a Personal Computer.
Now say someone realizes the implication of this and seeks to replace a PlayStation Vita with a comparable handheld Personal Computer: one with a screen, directional pad/stick, and action buttons. Any recommendations?
Oh I know this one! I recommend you learn the difference between gaming devices and personal computers. Hint: You may be able to add a joystick to use your PC to play games, but there isn't a PC on the planet that comes with a built in joystick.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
I still dont see your point? How do you figure a console is a better value than a PC even if the PC costs a hundred or so dollars more?
PS4 at launch was $400. The new Pro which supports some games in 4K is currently $400, the Slim with equal performance to launch is $300 but has been on sale for $250 and less.
GPD WIN
"X Box One X" is indeed an awful name. But they did it because:
X
Box
One
X
Nor do we have to pay an extortion fees 59.99 to play online games.... Sony wont let anyone play their multiplayer games, MMOS whatever unless you pay for a sony playstation plus which is more then just allowing online access,,, better deals??HAHAHAHHAHAHA pay for better deals...............How are they allowed to prevent people that pay for hardware and prevent them from acceding their own internet?
Jack of all trades,master of none
The problem is fine if it's "a few". It's a problem when it's "a lot".
PC piracy rates are somewhere around 90%, while console piracy is around 10% (averages). If you haven't noticed, PC versions of games tend to suck - either piss-poor console ports released months/years after the game was originally released, or not released at all.
Sure, some games with other forms of DRM are released same day - FPSes and such where the goal is playing online, which allows for servers to check for pirate keys and such, and those generally don't suck on PC.
Heck, even the couple of years before Denuvo fell PC gaming was on the uptick - even though they got broken in the end, the fact that Denuvo kept games "locked up" for a couple of months was good enough.
But now it's pretty much gone (it's cracked in under a week now), you can bet a lot of PC games are going to dry up and begin to suck again, leaving us with the piles of indie games. Sure there's a few gems in there, but anyone who's browsed Steam knows, there's a lot clogging it up.
And back to PC ports that suck because piracy makes it not worth while to do a good port because you won't make up the money doing the port.
When it's a $1.00 game, if one in thirty games turns out well, it's a good deal.
I think I'm doing better than one in thirty.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Where does that leave people who like to mod their couch games?
Using a PC from the couch.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
I never said it was. I was just correcting a factual error in your comment. And before that I was just addressing the non-sequitur nature of your comment on blu-ray drive prices.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
oh please geohotz wasn't 15 years old.. And the PS3 sold very VERY well even after that. You're just full of BS. And he hadn't had much to do with any hacked revision after that, but the latest revision (at least the last slim and certainly the ugly superslim) the PS3 just hasn't been able to be hacked, not because of lack of trying..
We're not talking about the games, we're talking about the hardware. Stop trying to spin the story. And also PC games just cost as much as a PC version on release. I've got 165 PS3 disc based games and I haven't paid more than $15 for any of them, oh well, I'm lying I paid $29 for Lego Star Wars, but that was the only game I paid so much money for. (eventually I bought the same game for $5 on Bundle stars for the PC).
But as I said, we were talking about hardware..
No you can't, a GTX1060 alone costs more than PS4.. And so, you cannot buy a complete new PC which is able to do 4K for less than $500.
And yes you can say a PS4 is cheaper, but your claim is about a less than $500 4K able PC (and we're talking about decent 4K, not everything on Low with a crap framerate).
Why does that matter?
It's the only thing that matters. If price didn't matter, you, and everyone else, would have all the choices.
Learn to love Alaska
Most PCs play 4k movies just fine. DRM is only an issue with the 1% of PCs that are running Linux.
Learn to love Alaska
You have no idea what youre talking about, geohotz was a kid at the time, and YES THE HACKER COMMUNITY VOWED TO NEVER USE SONY PRODUCTS!! do you even know what hackaday is? go learn something about shit thats almost 10 years old before you spout your nonsense. and you have the nerve to call yourself a nerd. gtfo.
No PC Master Race shit is retarded. I am a computer nerd. I love computers and know the power of them. Half of the reason o refuse to buy a console is because I can't open it and upgrade, I can't configure it how I want it, I don't care if someone cheats, go to a different server or a different game. And most "exclusive" titles for consoles hit PC a few months after they're released on console so they can get that extra money. And let's face it most people that play popular games like modern warfare and that shit are bratty little kids or bratty adults with very little knowledge. Not all, but most. Yes same can be said for PC gamers.. But I also enjoy the value of it being a full computer meaning I can do and run anything I want on it. PS3 was the closest you could get and was pretty fucking cool that you could run Linux on it, until Sony went and ruined that. I like to build tinker configure my devices. I can't do that with a console. I'm not saying it's for everybody, but PC is a far superior tool for the job, even for playing video games. Nobody wants up scaled 4K, the only thing consoles have going for them is controllers.. And honestly the steam controller is a superior product and they encourage you to hack and modify the thing.
https://m.newegg.com/products/...
EXTERNAL blu-ray burner for less then $50.. You didn't think they would cost as much as like a Samsung bluray player or some shit like that did you? And btw faster internal bluray drives are a lot cheaper.
I don't know why you're telling me this.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
You're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. Geohotz was 20!!! when he hacked the PS3. And nope the hacker community didn't vowe never to use sony products... I know, I'm part of that community, so now back to you.......
That's not how copyright works. Copyright is not a trademark. They can sue in 50 years and have exactly the same claim as they do today.
Did you read the part about the SDK documentation enabling hackers? That's an important fact.
Handheld dedicated video game devices do not allow installation of game mods because they are not personal computers.
Handheld personal computers do not come with joysticks because they are not dedicated video game devices.
I have never seen a handheld personal computer with a separately purchased joystick in use in public.
If someone prefers to play games with mods instead of vanilla games, which handheld platform should he choose?
Who gives a flying fuck? Let those drains on society drown in the drool that is sure to be constantly running from their mouths.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
And the hardware isn't what I need to play games. A BluRay player can be substituted by the network card attached to the mainboard and a sensibly sized hard drive. Provided of course that the games are offered that way, but if yours are only available in a certain format, don't blame me. Your argument is like claiming I have to buy the one-size-fits-all PC that the local discounter offers that has a bunch of shit I don't need because it's offered that way.
And yes, of course I am comparing prices at release day. Because that's when most people buy them, if everyone waited 'til the game reached the bargain bin studios would stop making games. And sorry to inform you, there are very few games that actually cost as much on console as they do on PC, and curiously the PC version sales usually are lackluster. Probably because PC gamers don't drop 70 bucks for games since they're more used to paying 50, and if your game costs 70, there is nearly certainly one that is about the same for 50.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Well if you're comparing prices at release day, and say console games costs 70 and pc 50 then you're just comparing apples and pears, as you're comparing retail prices (console) to streetprices (pc). Just looking around will get you about the same price for console games a pc games (the same game that is).
And with PC you shouldn't forget the decend case, powersupply too.
You mean the parts that I bought like 3 hardware generations ago that I still use? Why, do you figure in the TV price every time you buy a new console?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
No, I don't figure in the tv price. But I do figure in everything that a new console itself has, so that means CPU/GPU/Motherboard/Memory(RAM/Storage)/optical drive/Case/powersupply, I don't even factor in the mouse/keyboard even though they are like the console controllers.
When I buy a new computer, I don't reuse any of the parts, mostly not even the optical drive.
When we're talking about comparing hardware, we're talking about like buying a new one, not upgrading.
I see why you are advocating for consoles, you are a dumbass who spends his money without any thought. Seriously, why would you buy a new case every time you upgrade? Why would you buy a new optical drive? Why would you buy a new power supply?
If you buy new hardware before it fails, or before it doesn't satisfy your needs then you are wasting money.
I've had my power supply for the last 3 builds
optical drive, last 2 builds
case, I just replaced it about a year ago, but the one prior to it I used since 2002.
Because I give my computer to my brother/parents/friends? and I don't want to have the same case for ever (even though I do always choose the barest case (just a black box), but want it more quiet every new case.
I only upgrade if a component actually dies before I'm fed up with my current computer, I hate it to open the case (well actually getting it from under my desk and having to unplug all the cables and such). At the moment I'm even considering a NUC for my next PC, but the problem with NUC's is the crap GPU they have..
You're a dumbass yourself to keep upgrading a dead old cow..
I see a console as a great way for people with not much money being able to play the 'latest' games with pretty good visuals. (even though I do recommend just getting a PC as games (on steam or GOG) are in the long run cheaper to own as you can just take them with you to a new PC, which most console games don't (which is why I think if possible that any console should be able to emulate the older consoles and not having people buy their games again).
Even if users of interactive entertainment are allegedly "drains on society", they are still the revenue source for video game developers. Or are video game developers likewise "drains on society" to you?
And I get to reuse some of the things you have to buy because you buy the box "all in one". I can forgo buying a new case and power supply. Actually, I can even decide that my graphics card needs an upgrade, or that my CPU is too slow and that needs to be replaced. Or just stick more ram into the machine.
We're talking about hardware, all right, but you want to cut from the discussion any advantages the PC has over consoles. How is this even remotely sensible, unless you just want to "win" the argument? Of course, if you strip the fact that PCs can be upgraded piece by piece, when you strip that the library is way bigger due to the ease of Indie developers being able to participate, if you strip the price gap of games, if you strip that PC games usually come with more graphics and other performance options (unless they're cheaply done console ports), if you willfully ignore that it's easier to attach a console controller to a PC than to fit mouse+keyboard to a console (and have games that actually support them), if you ignore backwards compatibility where PC games from 10 years ago can still be played on the PC you own today.... then of course the console is better because the only thing left is that it costs about 600 bucks instead of the 800+ you'd have to pay for a new PC.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
No the original discussion was about a new PC under 500 doing 4K with decent settings.