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Roomba's Next Big Step Is Selling Maps of Your Home to the Highest Bidder (gizmodo.com)

The maker of the Roomba robotic vacuum, iRobot -- which we have talked about several times in the past -- has found itself embroiled in a privacy row after its chief executive suggested it may begin selling floor plans of customers' homes, derived from the movement data of their autonomous servants. From a report: While it may seem like the information that a Roomba could gather is minimal, there's a lot to be gleaned from the maps it's constantly updating. It knows the floor plan of your home, the basic shape of everything on your floor, what areas require the most maintenance, and how often you require cleaning cycles, along with many other data points. [...] If a company like Amazon, for example, wanted to improve its Echo smart speaker, the Roomba's mapping info could certainly help out. Spatial mapping could improve audio performance by taking advantage of the room's acoustics. Do you have a large room that's practically empty? Targeted furniture ads might be quite effective. The laser and camera sensors would paint a nice portrait for lighting needs that would factor into smart lights that adjust in real time. Smart AC units could better control airflow. And additional sensors added in the future would gather even more data from this live-in double agent.

67 of 123 comments (clear)

  1. OH man...I don't like this... by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I actually have the advanced version of the Neato Botvac..that makes maps of my house after it runs..which I thought was nice to visually ensure it hit everything.

    I hope THEY don't start selling this info....!!!

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    1. Re:OH man...I don't like this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, now it's going to find all the dead people I leave lying around. Maybe it'll suggest cleaning supplies for that!

    2. Re:OH man...I don't like this... by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      Eh, nobody's going to pay for maps of dead bodies. I'm more interested in buying maps of houses with very expensive TVs. Preferably if the house doesn't have a gun safe.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    3. Re:OH man...I don't like this... by DaMattster · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'll let one loose in a public men's room. That'll be funny.

    4. Re:OH man...I don't like this... by fermion · · Score: 1
      When I look at the maps, it is hard for me to match what it does to the layout of the home. I tend to be a visual person, so I usually can map these kind of things to reality.

      Also, I tend to move the robot to different parts of the house, so there would have to be some significant processing before anyone could use the data to generate an accurate map.

      That said, there is a evidently a camera on the iRobot, so depending on the data is collected, there may be more than just a map. When I bought it i did not know about the camera. I guess we all need to look at keeping the robot limited to a LAN. If there is a world connection, then we may be looking at at another IoT security risk that most of us have not though about.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    5. Re:OH man...I don't like this... by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Is the thing using an "app" or "cloud" then you can be sure that it's being sold to the highest bidder.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    6. Re:OH man...I don't like this... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      I actually have the advanced version of the Neato Botvac..that makes maps of my house after it runs..which I thought was nice to visually ensure it hit everything.

      I hope THEY don't start selling this info....!!!

      They might find out my sofa clearance just high enough for the damn thing to get stuck. I'll give that away free.

    7. Re:OH man...I don't like this... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Slashdot headline 101, when someone says they might sell information, tack on 'to the highest bidder' in the headline, even if they never said that. It creates a sense of greed and shifts focus away from possible other sensible reasons.

  2. the real question is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    why is this thing connected to the internet in the first place?

    1. Re:the real question is... by FatAlb3rt · · Score: 1

      Mine isn't - and I didn't go bottom of the line either.

    2. Re:the real question is... by gnick · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My SIL showed me the app for her unit over the weekend. She seemed particularly excited over being able to order a cleaning cycle from the restaurant. She was also proud of the map she could pull up and show us of the floor plan and cleaning results, but it was the remote control that seemed to be the selling point. As long as these types of features excite people, they'll be available.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    3. Re:the real question is... by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

      because when you're trying to sex up the female you co-habitate with and she's not in the mood cause she didn't have time to clean, you can order it to clean the house over the internet from the phone beside you

    4. Re:the real question is... by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      It's called innovation. Speaking of which: are they finally putting Lipo batteries in those things now?

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    5. Re:the real question is... by rtkluttz · · Score: 1

      But this is the big myth perpetuated by the internet of things so they can sell YOU. All the functions of IOT gadgets can be had just as well from within your own home with VPN's and apps that don't have to tie into big brother but instead connect directly to the IOT thing.

      I will NEVER be OK with asking a company for login or control permission for a thing that sits inside my own network.

      --
      Digital is, by definition, imperfect. Analog is the way to go.
    6. Re:the real question is... by dugancent · · Score: 1

      I have an older version of the Roomba. It doesn't, and has no way to, connect to the internet.

      --
      SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
    7. Re:the real question is... by Thud457 · · Score: 4, Funny

      bigger problem - they still haven't solved the whole "SMEARING PET SHIT ALL OVER YOUR HOUSE" problem.

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    8. Re:the real question is... by infolation · · Score: 5, Funny

      why is this thing connected to the internet in the first place?

      Because that's how they hoover up your data!

    9. Re:the real question is... by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      So they can sell the plans of your house to highest bidder, which means that it would be easy for someone trying to rob you.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    10. Re:the real question is... by sconeu · · Score: 1

      why is this thing connected to the internet in the first place?

      Because that's how they hoover up your data!

      I see what you did there...

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    11. Re:the real question is... by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      Simple fix, don't have pets that shit on the floor.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    12. Re: the real question is... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Nope. That would be S-I-L. Good luck learning English!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    13. Re:the real question is... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

      Even simpler fix: get a house without floors.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    14. Re: the real question is... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Now is try again for *dissolving*. Of course this is best for extra fun.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    15. Re:the real question is... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Dam you!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    16. Re: the real question is... by The123king · · Score: 1
      --
      If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
    17. Re:the real question is... by coofercat · · Score: 1

      We have a Thinkgizmos something-or-other - it cleans our kitchen/diner very nicely. I don't know if the Roombas have this problem, but in ours there's a little box that needs emptying from time to time - it seems to fill up with fluff, crumbs, hair etc. If they could make an app-controlled version of my robot that didn't have this problem, then I might be interested ;-)

      FWIW, our vacuum was about £150, much less than the £300+ for a roomba. I can't say if it's better or worse, but it does clean pretty well, so in that regard, it meets requirements. It also doesn't have any sort of network connection - AFAIK, you can't even update the software via USB or anything. Honestly, I'm fine with that - sure, a new release might save 15 minutes out of an hours cleaning time, but if it gets clean, then it gets clean, and I'm not going to worry about the time it takes while I'm asleep.

  3. Something something maps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Modern mapp mappers use mapps to mapp mapps, or something. Mapps?

    1. Re:Something something maps by lobiusmoop · · Score: 1

      I LOL'd but am out of mod points, well played sir.

      --
      "I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
    2. Re:Something something maps by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      Someone get this AC a username! More comments like this please.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    3. Re:Something something maps by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Mapman!

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  4. Why connect a Roomba by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    To the internet for anything but firmware update?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Why connect a Roomba by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Well, I do, but I do so using my own hardware and software. The Roomba doesn't get to talk to the internet except through me.

  5. Modded this down yesterday as fake by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Sadly, it isn't fake.

    Sigh.

    This is disgusting.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Modded this down yesterday as fake by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      There is great danger it seems to me to arise from the constant habit which prevails where anything is opposed or objected to, of referring without rhyme or reason to the Constitution as a means of preventing its accomplishment, thus creating the general impression that the Constitution is but a barrier to progress instead of being the broad highway through which alone true progress may be enjoyed.

      Apparently this also works for privacy.

      Most privacy complaints I've seen are of two flavors: something people are leaking like crazy anyway; or something innocuous and, besides, expensive and difficult to handle.

      Of the latter, we have things which expose little about you in and of themselves, but which might tell us some things in aggregate by focused investigation. I'm not talking about Siri recording all your speech in the Cloud; I'm talking about things like isolated handwriting and speaking samples, browsing habits, and demographics of visitors to a Web site. A Web site can track your activities because you go there, but people don't want the Web site to track your activities (cookies), or to identify that you are male and 25-35 years old.

      As I've stated: focusing on an individual and drawing a picture of one person's activities--assuming you can positively-identify that individual in the various data sources available to you--might tell you a disturbing amount about them. Otherwise, you are a statistic in a sea of information, invisible because nobody cares about you in particular.

      In general, businesses want to analyze data to identify links between behaviors. They want to know if a demographic exists that will buy a particular product, and if they can subdivide it into the various demographics sensitive to the different presentations of said product. Such analysis is bulky and complex; it's extremely-expensive, and nobody wants to do it. The most economic use of all of this data, therefor, is to provide a service of aggregate data to fit a stated need, which would de-personalize the raw data as a matter of course.

      It therefor occurs to me that we should embrace the progress provided by big data services in a way which demands strict privacy protections: we should regulate the transfer of raw, identifiable data sets, and encourage the service of aggregation. We should also find a way of storing the data as depersonalized as possible, of aging it, and of destroying it. We should also declare, as a matter of Congressional law affirming Constitutional law, that said data is protected under fourth-amendment provisions against unlawful search and seizure, and so the Government can only make such a data request with a court order of narrow scope to select individuals--and that scope must pass reasonable Judiciary review to issue a warrant, such that overly-broad requests are hopefully excluded.

      We should allow an organization to file to receive data from a source within another organization. This filing will specify the scope and form of the data, and what depersonalization is available to them in transit: any extraneous data need not be there, and shall be expunged before transfer. Mandatory independent audits performed on-site would sample incoming data, exposing some potentially-raw data to the auditors, but never shipping it off-site in bulk, thus minimizing exposure while maintaining regulatory capacity by independent reporting.

      Such an organization may perform the service of aggregating results for third parties. If an advertiser wants to sell targeted advertising, he can create and measure markets, but not people. You are not a man; you are a proportion of a statistic, inseparable from a whole unit. There may be 100,000 households in a small city including a member fitting your description as per the query, and you are incorporated into this regional statistic for the client. Just as the voter has no voice but that which booms from the polls, you have no identity but that which arises from the common trends in large amounts of data.

    2. Re:Modded this down yesterday as fake by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      I don't remember a targeted ad ever working. I do remember that change in ads creeping me out and then associating that creepiness with the products advertised. Are competitors using targeted ads to creep people out and put them off buying competing products by advertising them in a negative manner. Make not mistake targeted advertising is mostly targeted at the people buying advertising space. Logically enough the less ads you see the more offensive they become, you cease to be accustomed to the intrusion and now they simply put you off, much like a barker randomly walking into you house to scream in face to buy what ever shit the barker is screaming about.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  6. How can I fuck with the data being sent? by mykepredko · · Score: 4, Funny

    Appliances shouldn't report on their owners.

    Having said that, it could be fun having the Roomba send data that indicates:
    - Our bathrooms are the size of Airplane hangers
    - The master bedroom is actually a dungeon
    - Our pets consist of only magical creatures
    - My workroom contains nuclear materials

    1. Re:How can I fuck with the data being sent? by mikael · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'd get a truckload of old boxes and make a giant cardboard box maze along with some spiral and regular ramps. Maybe even a Jubilex, Asmodeus map or a Wizard of Yendor tower.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    2. Re:How can I fuck with the data being sent? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Our local Costco has started carrying Roombas recently, and the price is decent. The last two times I was there, I toyed with getting one.

      Now I am not going to buy one under any circumstances. I don't care if the CEO backtracks later - he's just proven why these sorts of devices should not be owned by anyone with any sort of intelligence.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:How can I fuck with the data being sent? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      You're likely not aware of Costco's business, but basically these models aren't going to show up for a long time. They help companies like iRobot clean out last year's models from the warehouse. You won't find the latest and greatest there for an item like this.

    4. Re:How can I fuck with the data being sent? by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      [I]t could be fun having the Roomba send data that indicates: [...]
      - My workroom contains nuclear materials

      It's only fun and games until SWAT breaks down your door in the middle of the night, shoots your dog, and leaves your children traumatized because of the CYA mentality that prevents people from leaving things that are obviously jokes alone, just in case they end up being credible threats.

    5. Re:How can I fuck with the data being sent? by mykepredko · · Score: 2

      Actually, that's when the fun and games start.

      Imagine the lawsuit/settlement that you can have with a company that wrongly accuses you of working with nuclear materials based on the word of a vacuum cleaner.

      They will basically give you anything you want to keep the press from finding out.

    6. Re:How can I fuck with the data being sent? by darkpixel2k · · Score: 1

      I'd get a truckload of old boxes and make a giant cardboard box maze along with some spiral and regular ramps. Maybe even a Jubilex, Asmodeus map or a Wizard of Yendor tower.

      Bonus points for the geek that gets their mapping program to output MC Escher's staircase painting.
      Double bonus points for the geek that introduces a fractal image that crashes their servers similar to the image Picard wanted to introduce into the Borg Collective via Hugh...

      --
      There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    7. Re:How can I fuck with the data being sent? by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Funny

      That should be relatively doable, but I do question how your Roomba will react

      *Clicks button to clean bathroom*
      Roomba: "Did you install the 12 additional charging points I asked for? I'm not going in there"

      Fine! *Clicks button to clean master bedroom*
      Roomba: "Screw the first law of robotics, I'm invoking the third!"

      Grr! *Clicks button to clean workroom*
      Roomba: "My friend died when they asked him to clean Fukushima." *Drives to the corner of the room* *sobbing sounds*.

    8. Re:How can I fuck with the data being sent? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      he's just proven why these sorts of devices should not be owned by anyone with any sort of intelligence.

      So let me get this straight: Instead of junk ads from the highest bidder, getting this device may cause Amazon to actually advertise stuff that makes sense for me, AND it cleans my house? Frankly I'd be happy with just the former.

    9. Re:How can I fuck with the data being sent? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Get one without a cellular modem. If it was wifi or a PC connection, don't connect it. If it doesn't work without that, return it.

      Returns are actually a great way to punish companies that try to hide bullshit in the EULA and don't clearly advertise that their products need spying enabled to work. You can usually get them to pay return postage in the UK, dunno about other places.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  7. I've been using and loving Roombas for years now by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    And my response to this idea is: Nope.

  8. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  9. What do we get out of it? by Lavithas · · Score: 1

    Why should I spend money on a Roomba so it can tell me to spend more money?
    I'm fully capable of buying furniture on my own, thank you very much.

    They mention Amazon as a buyer, but let's get real, spam ads would eventually show up.

    Lastly, I'd just disable my Roomba's internet capabilities if I somehow got too lazy to vacuum.

  10. and roomba can be looking at Accessory changers by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    and roomba can be looking at Accessory changers

  11. Re:Mapping Out Home Invasions by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

    Yeah, the deal sucks.

    *rimshot*

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
  12. Re:DOOM doom DOOM doom by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    like the unreleased Columbine wad?

  13. Re: Mapping Out Home Invasions by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

    Tinfoil hat time turned out to mean "this is really happening and we should not have laughed", or haven't you been paying attention ?

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  14. Privacy concerns are minimal by mysidia · · Score: 1

    Seriously.... who cares that they know your floor plan? Besides, you listed all these advantages that can help you as a consumer, by
    having your other devices know your floor plan!

    My only concern is if you bought the device, then the maps should be your property, and you should be free to submit this data to all your smarthome product vendors without adding to the costs of their products.

    It seems a bit unfair that you spent $$$ on this robot that collects your data AND the company wants to tax your data instead of allowing you to submit it and do what you will with the data from your bot for free.

    1. Re:Privacy concerns are minimal by Scutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seriously.... who cares that they know your floor plan?

      It's not what they're selling, it's that they're selling it at all. Consumers seem to have no control over their personal data anymore. They're at the mercy of whichever corporation decides that they'd like to squeeze you for a little more money. The answer shouldn't be "well, stop using that technology!". What we should be doing is demanding stronger consumer protection laws to prevent it from happening in the first place.

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    2. Re:Privacy concerns are minimal by Arzaboa · · Score: 1

      Would surely be nice if there was a mechanism that actually worked to keep this stuff off the internet. Seems the "free market" isn't doing the job. I assume that these companies will have free reign to do this until the vast majority of people say something.

    3. Re:Privacy concerns are minimal by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      Seems the "free market" isn't doing the job

      Yeah, well... humans. As often as not, they don't act rationally or in their own self-interest.

      That sort of behavior destroys the simplistic economic models you read about in the newspaper or see on TV.

      The simplistic models justify being an asshole, so they stick around.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    4. Re:Privacy concerns are minimal by Arzaboa · · Score: 1

      Nod. So right.

  15. Re:I've been using and loving Roombas for years no by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    You've been "using and loving" a Roomba for years? May I suggest a Realdoll instead?

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  16. Re:Mapping Out Home Invasions by ghoul · · Score: 1

    Solution. Clean your panic room manually

    --
    **Life is too short to be serious**
  17. Just killed Roomba for me by slincolne · · Score: 1

    I have been shopping around for one of these - now it's just not going to happen. Talk about exploiting your customers :-(

  18. Sounds great! by sootman · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Do you have a large room that's practically empty? Targeted furniture ads might be quite effective."

    Yeah, those will be super-effective, because all those people with giant, empty rooms probably aren't aware that a thing called "furniture" exists.

    Fuckheads.

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  19. Re:Mapping Out Home Invasions by xlsior · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your local county assessor's office already has the floorplan and street view of your house publicly available on the internet for no charge in all likelihood.

  20. Re:I've been using and loving Roombas for years no by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    Nah, Roombas are cheaper, offer better suction, and make a sexy whirring sound.

  21. Free roomba? by Chewbacon · · Score: 2

    I think we have a deal.

    --
    Chewbacon
    The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
  22. Re:Mapping Out Home Invasions by darkpixel2k · · Score: 5, Funny

    Tinfoil hat time, but the same data could provide the means of a well-crafted home invasion. In the event of a full breach home invasion, one of the advantages that the home owner has is knowing the layout of their home. If those that mean to do harm, have the home layout they can pre-plan out everything in advance.

    That's why I rearrange all my rooms daily. Imagine their surprise when they burst into the master bedroom only to find it full of dishes from earlier in the day.

    --
    There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
  23. Re:Mapping Out Home Invasions by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    If those that mean to do harm, have the home layout they can pre-plan out everything in advance.

    I'm not sure who is doing you harm, but it sounds like they are a well connected intelligence agency. You're likely screwed either way.

  24. Re:Mapping Out Home Invasions by xlsior · · Score: 1

    Depends on where you live -- in the few cities around where I live, you can most definitely look up the floorplans as well as other info on the assessor website -- both new properties (my own house, from 2006) as well as old ones (my in-laws, 1950)