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Will 'Smart Cities' Violate Our Privacy? (computerworld.com)

An anonymous reader quotes Computerworld's article on the implications of New York City's plan to blanket the city with "smart" kiosks offering ultrafast Wi-Fi. The existence of smart-city implementations like Intersection's LinkNYC means that New Yorkers won't actually need mobile contracts anymore. Most who would otherwise pay for them will no doubt continue to do so for the convenience. But those who could not afford a phone contract in the past will have ubiquitous fast connectivity in the future. This strongly erodes the digital divide within smart cities. A 2015 study conducted by New York City found that more than a quarter of city households had no internet connectivity at home, and more than half a million people didn't own their own computer...

Over the next 15 years, the city will go through the other two phases, where sensor data will be processed by artificial intelligence to gain unprecedented insights about traffic, environment and human behavior and eventually use it to intelligently re-direct traffic and shape other city functions... And as autonomous cars gradually roll out, New York will be well positioned to be one of the first cities to legalize them, because they'll be safer thanks to 5G, sensors and data from all those kiosks.

Intersection, a Google-backed startup, has already installed 1,000 of the kiosks in New York, and is planning to install 7,000 more. The sides of the kiosk have screens which show alerts and other public information -- as well as advertisements, which cover all the costs of the installations and even bring extra money into the city coffers.

New York's move "puts pressure on other U.S. cities to follow suit," the article also points out, adding that privacy policies "are negotiated agreements between the company and the city. So if a city wants to use those cameras and sensors for surveillance, it can."

108 comments

  1. Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Question answered. Move along now...

    1. Re: Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Obviously you haven't been paying attention very long on Slashdot. Betteridge's Law of Headlines clearly states that the answer is no.

    2. Re: Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The phone companies and ISPs and social media conglomerates already gather surveillance. The NSA also hoovers everything. If cities get in on the action, they're just entering a market that is already bereft of privacy, so your privacy will not be compromised any more than it already is. In that sense, Betteridge's law still holds.

      If you aren't encrypting all data in transit, you don't have any privacy from your intermediaries no matter who they are. Your metadata has always been out there for surveillance anyway.

      That makes this article FUD. Ubiquitous municipal access just means that the phone companies and ISPs don't get to charge you for access while surveilling you.

    3. Re: Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. We will all implicitly give permission. Or explicitly by the terms of use for our apartment, job, shop visit, city app, etc. No violation is possible when everything is permissible.

    4. Re: Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is the Pope Catholic? Does a bear shit in the woods? Is water wet?

    5. Re:Yes by tsa · · Score: 1

      Indeed. The rule is that articles with a question in the title answer this question with 'no,' but in this case a resounding 'YES' is in order. So the question should be: Is Our Privacy Safe in the Smart City?

      --

      -- Cheers!

    6. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      technology is already invading our privacy everywhere and congress won't do a fucking thing about it because all this surveillance is beneficial to the government to control the public and curtail any thoughts of rebellion (captcha: rioting), and are a profit center for those who fund their campaigns. what we desperately need is a requirement that those 'in charge' are also spied upon to the same extent.

    7. Re: Yes by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      We already are asked in every shop today if we are members or want to be members, all to get our privacy invaded.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    8. Re: Yes by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Proof needed.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    9. Re:Yes by hord · · Score: 2

      Quit waiting for Congress. Congress will never do anything for you. Why would you even think they are on your side?

    10. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How come Betteridge's law of headlines doesn't apply in this case?

    11. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because it's in conflict with another, unnamed rule: any service provided for free is paid for with your privacy.

    12. Re: Yes by knightghost · · Score: 1

      Not if you say "No". Most people give up their privacy because of laziness.

    13. Re: Yes by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      That's what I do, but they bug me every time.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    14. Re: Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those in charge are spied on too, they are merely tech illiterate and don't get it.

      Those not spied on (by isps and other corps) are the tinfoil nerds who do everything over a couple layers of vpn & tor. May still be spied on by 3 letter agencies, but avoiding corporations, isps and "social media" is not hard - even if you use the net a lot.

    15. Re:Yes by Methadras · · Score: 1

      No, the answer isn't to move along, but rather to move out of these privacy invading shit-holes.

    16. Re:Yes by KingBenny · · Score: 1

      overstating the obvious ... does slashdot live by advertising ? well then ....

      --
      Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
  2. Oath of Fealty by wisebabo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Here's a Larry Niven novel (I haven't read it, unfortunately) in which the inhabitants are "sacrificing privacy - there are cameras (not routinely monitored) even in the private apartments - in exchange for security" (Wikipedia).

    Unfortunately, due to the vast amounts of data collected on us by myriad gadgets (smartphones, Alexa, cell phone towers, public cameras, private cameras with Geo tagged data on social media, credit card machines, ATMs... perhaps even smart parking meters!), it appears as if we've already sacrificed privacy. Have we gotten more security? Honestly, maybe, aren't crime rates supposed to be down?

    1. Re:Oath of Fealty by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, they are down.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    2. Re:Oath of Fealty by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      Petty crime yes. Organized crime? No, that's way the hell up.

    3. Re:Oath of Fealty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, maybe, aren't crime rates supposed to be down?

      It is insufficient to show that crime rates are down. You have to demonstrate a causal relationship. Would crime rates be higher or lower without the ubiquitous surveillance?

      Even further - what are the costs of surveillance? Do they outweigh the (yet to be proven) benefits?

    4. Re:Oath of Fealty by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Organized crime? No, that's way the hell up.

      Citation?

      Crime rates in the USA, per 100K population look to be less than half what they were in 1980 for the most part. And none of the crimes they track are "way the hell up". Or even "up".....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  3. As always by ckatko · · Score: 0

    Duh.

    You want to know the information that's never abused, and never hacked? The _information you never gather._

  4. obligatory Manna by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
  5. Betteridge's Law of Headlines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any headline that contains a question can be answered with no.

    The answer is no. Smart cities will not violate our privacy.

    1. Re:Betteridge's Law of Headlines by vux984 · · Score: 1

      The answer is no. Smart cities will not violate our privacy.

      Yeah, i'd say that too, if the city was watching. You don't want to piss it off.

  6. LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can not have smart cities without smart voters. Trump prives we do not have smart voters.

    âoeGive me a Tic Tac so I can grab a pussyâ

    - President Trump

    1. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed, TRUMP voders were hacked into by Russians working out of a ware house in Moscow. How do I know? Sources told me.

    2. Re:LOL by gweihir · · Score: 1

      The problem with Trump is not Trump, but those that voted for him. They show that a large faction of the voting population have zero smarts and easily fall for a con-man if he is just loud enough and promises the right things. They will then proceed to ignore his failures and cheer for anything that looks like he made good on a promise, even if completely unrelated to his actions. These people ask to be defrauded and they have zero understanding of how things work. When this mindless faction reaches a size where it has a majority of votes, a country is lost. Because while Trump will go away after a maximum of 8 years, the people that voted him into office will not and they will continue to do damage until everything collapses because of their non-understanding of reality.

      Not that this is without historic precedent. In fact this is how it usually goes: The ones in power (and in a democracy that is the people) lose contact with reality enough so that politics does one stupid thing after another. This seems to have not much negative effect for a while, as society has a lot of inertia. However, when the strong downwards tendency eventually becomes clear, it will be too late to stop it, just because of that inertia as well. And, of course, those that caused it will never realize what they did. The only good thing about a democracy is that the ones that brought it down _will_ be suffering the consequences as well and they were doing it to themselves. Maybe the next iteration will be a bit smarter, but I doubt it.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re: LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you hate working class people so much?

    4. Re: LOL by gweihir · · Score: 1

      I do not hate working class people. I am merely an observer in this. But judging by what these people do to themselves, it seems they hate themselves very much.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    5. Re:LOL by tsa · · Score: 1

      I think many of his voters are disappointed with Trump and will vote differently next time. The problem is: four years is not enough time for the next president to clear out the enormous mess Trump has made even in the six months he has now been in office. So the people will be disappointed in the next president too, and will vote for a new con man (if available) next.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    6. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They show that a large faction of the voting population ...

      ... thought he was the lesser evil: That's called democracy. When it's a two horse race, it's bad democracy: Fix that and not-evil candidates will appear.

      ... have zero smarts and easily fall for a con-man ...

      ... claiming votes count only when the Democrat or Republican box is ticked. Most people will vote for the 2 major parties but having a 3-way or 4-way split of the ballot box means no candidate can assume victory because they're "the most qualified".

    7. Re:LOL by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Indeed. It _was_ obvious before though that they would be disappointed. It was just not obvious to them and that is the real problem here.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    8. Re: LOL by cyber-vandal · · Score: 3, Interesting

      He is the only presidential candidate in the last 25 years to talk about the damage done to people's lives by globalisation and talk about reversing it.

      If your life had been wrecked by transfer of jobs abroad, you'd probably feel a bit differently. Shouting "stupid" at these people might make you feel good but trying to understand them would be a better use of your time. It didn't help that the wife of the architect of their misery was the other candidate.

      The trouble with the left these days is that the compassion for everyone in need has been replaced by virtue signalling on Twitter and judging everyone's needs by their physical characteristics. White = privilege even if you can barely afford to eat and so is it any wonder that poor white people don't buy into that political philosophy. Ask yourself why your message is so unpopular that people were willing to vote in great numbers for the most unsuitable candidate in history.

    9. Re: LOL by pslytely+psycho · · Score: 1

      Let's see, Dems managed to get 22 million people health insurance. It's not perfect and needs work but it's a start.
      Republicans want to make it so that 20 to 35 million people lose that insurance. All to give the already wealthy another undeserved tax cut.
      They could of, instead of sabotaging the law with over a hundred amendments, worked toward making it a good law, as it was based on a Heritage Foundation plan for the R's in the first place. Instead they chose to obstruct their own plan because they vowed from day one to vote against anything O wanted, regardless of value to the country, steal a SCOTUS seat, and generally fuck every one of us in the process.
      Both parties are blinded by partisanship but who really hates the working class?
      And remember D's TRIED to get the R's to work with them on O'care, They CHOSE not to.
      When the R's got total control they shut out everyone including most of their own party to try and get the repeal they wanted so badly until it actually had a chance of passing. Then their balls shriveled up.
      The dog caught the car, now it has no idea what to do.

      Republican math, cut taxes, spend more.

      --
      Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
    10. Re: LOL by tsa · · Score: 1

      We do understand them. However, we also understand that a lazy narcistic lunatic con man is not fit for the presidency.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    11. Re: LOL by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Well, as globalization is a historical change that is basically inevitable and all that can be done is participate a bit slower (to the detriment of the local economy), Trump has the distinction that he has no problems blatantly lying about being able to do something here. The truth is that he cannot (and he is either utterly incompetent as a businessman, or he _knows_ that). The other truth is that no US president ever had any significant influence on that process, because that goes far, far beyond the power a US president has. So yes, I will call people that think their messiahs can reverse something that rather obviously cannot be reversed "stupid". These are the people that vote themselves bread and games until there is no bread and no games left and then they complain that somebody else did it to them.

      Don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for the people in the situation you describe. It sucks and it should not happen to anybody in the modern world. But the cold, hard, ugly truth is that they have been mostly doing it to themselves and fight tooth and nail against anything that would actually improve their situation.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    12. Re:LOL by hord · · Score: 1

      This is the history of voting. What I don't get is why people hold Democracy to be so sacrosanct when it's clear that it doesn't give you the outcomes you want. Voting is great when you win. When you lose you have to deal with whatever punishment the winner ascribed. Instead of blaming Trump or The People... perhaps you should be asking why we are begging permissions from Oompa Loompas? Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. And I'm hungry.

    13. Re: LOL by Zumbs · · Score: 2

      Globalization was spearheaded by a number of free trade treaties. If I recall correctly, the US government was a major player in most of these treaties, and fought tooth and nail to ensure that neither workers rights nor the environment was protected by those treaties. Given that the US was the largest economy by far when most of these treaties were negotiated, the US government could have demanded some protection of workers rights, offsetting some of the damage done to regular people. Instead they gospelled the glory of free trade making everyone richer. What they did not say, was that "everyone" in the West actually meant "everyone already rich".

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    14. Re: LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could of

      They could have

    15. Re: LOL by gweihir · · Score: 2

      That is what appears to have happened. In actual reality, it was not those treaties, but the push for something in that direction that made it happen. And that push would have just found another outlet without these treaties.

      Now the problem about worker protection is that it is infeasible. Sure, if possible, it would be the thing to do, but it is not. If you start protecting the workers, you lose on other fronts and in the end the workers and up worse. We are seeing this now at all fronts: The time of the worker is over. They are less and less needed, globalization just shifted it for a while. We likely go towards a society were, in addition to the well-known 1%, we will also have the 10%, and that will those whose work is still needed because it cannot be automatized. The interesting question, and the one critical for survival as a society, is what to to with the remaining 89%.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    16. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When it's a two horse race, it's bad democracy: Fix that and not-evil candidates will appear.

      It's a start, but the winner-take-all system isn't the only problem. Another elephant in the room is the river of money flowing into elections. Yet another is the concentration of media in the hands of a few, all of which want to promote specific agendas. There are a lot of ways that US democracy is well and truly fucked.

    17. Re: LOL by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      They could of

      They could have

      They could've

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    18. Re: LOL by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      That is what appears to have happened. In actual reality, it was not those treaties, but the push for something in that direction that made it happen. And that push would have just found another outlet without these treaties.

      Do you have anything to back up that claim?

      Now the problem about worker protection is that it is infeasible. Sure, if possible, it would be the thing to do, but it is not. If you start protecting the workers, you lose on other fronts and in the end the workers and up worse. We are seeing this now at all fronts: The time of the worker is over. They are less and less needed, globalization just shifted it for a while. We likely go towards a society were, in addition to the well-known 1%, we will also have the 10%, and that will those whose work is still needed because it cannot be automatized. The interesting question, and the one critical for survival as a society, is what to to with the remaining 89%.

      Protection of workers is possible, and it does not cause workers to end up worse. Workers fought for and won rights and wealth in Denmark, and the result was rights and wealth for everyone, causing Denmark to become a rich, dynamic and egalitarian country.

      Even if your prediction is accurate (and that is a huge if), it is unlikely to happen within the next few decades. And I don't see how it applies to the push for globalization in the 1970s and 1980s.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    19. Re: LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least you are honest about it, you communist fuck.

    20. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I voted for Trump and I'm not disappointed. I didn't vote for him because I thought he was the best candidate. I voted for him to hopefully prevent Clinton from being elected. In that regard, my vote was very successful! Trump could put on a clown suit and play the kazoo for the next 3.5 years and I'd still be happy with the outcome.

    21. Re: LOL by KGIII · · Score: 1

      In the real world, there are more sheep than wolves.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    22. Re: LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes - he talked about globalization.

      Now, lets see him make a real dent in it - even when it hurts big corps currently profiting from import & outsourcing?

      And no, making the population too poor to import much doesn't count as solving such problems.

    23. Re: LOL by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      It shows how broken the political system is that that terrible man was seen as the answer.

    24. Re: LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they're a disgrace to their name because... they all lost their jobs and are no longer working

    25. Re: LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When the SWAT MiBs flashbang your kid's face beyond recognition "mistakenly", I bet you'll be singing a different tune.

      BTW, you can't sue them, the police, or the gov't for any damage done either.

      Bon appetit!

    26. Re: LOL by gweihir · · Score: 1

      That is what appears to have happened. In actual reality, it was not those treaties, but the push for something in that direction that made it happen. And that push would have just found another outlet without these treaties.

      Do you have anything to back up that claim?

      This is not a scientific publication site. This is /. Asking for evidence is rude.

      That said, if you cannot see this given the idea, then no amount of actual evidence will convince you as this is obvious.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    27. Re: LOL by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      I provided you with a short synopsis of why I thought you were wrong. You answered along the lines of "You are wrong" without providing any argument as to why I am wrong. And when I ask why you think I am wrong, your reply is "It is obvious that you are wrong". I had hoped you could at least point to your opinion on the dynamic behind the inevitable labor-hostile globalization.

      Oh, well, have a nice day/evening/night/morning!

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
  7. Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nope, unless your offline like Toe Cheese Stallman, your privacy has been gone for a long time.

  8. The Special Law of Betteridge by somenickname · · Score: 0

    The Special Law of Betteridge says that any headline that matches the regex "/(will|can).*reduce privacy/i" can be answered with "yes".

  9. Not in Seattle... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Insightful

    New York's move "puts pressure on other U.S. cities to follow suit," the article also points out.

    Does it? Of course, says the company pushing it. But not all cities will take the bait. Seattle citizens would probably have a fucking cow; when the city tried to install a mesh network downtown to enhance emergency response, the uproar resulted in all the installed equipment being taken out.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Not in Seattle... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, another factor is - anyone with an attention span longer than ten minutes remembers that we've heard this song before. Numerous cities - including Seattle, as you know - talked a big game a decade or so ago about building out ubiquitous cheap/free wifi. Some cities, like Philadelphia, actually started to roll it out... but it went south pretty quickly.

      I realize this new push has Google's backing - but they're no longer patient with throwing money at projects which don't turn a profit quickly. That also means that, if you see them sticking with this for more than a year or two, they're making money on it... which should scare any semi-intelligent New Yorker.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  10. Tried them, they suck. by lucaiaco · · Score: 3

    I have seen several of these kiosks in Manhattan already. They are ugly, most of them in a state of disrepair, and more unresponsive than your grandpa's internet explorer. And I'm a talking about the ones in front of Penn Station. I cannot imagine the ones they will install in the Bronx, or in some other non-central location.

    If you want to be useful, just install free wifi repeaters (starting from the goddamn airports, please), like any other civilized city in Asia do.

    1. Re:Tried them, they suck. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter how much bandwidth they provide, it will always get clogged up with pr0n. Pr0n is the one thing where suck and blow is equivalent.

    2. Re:Tried them, they suck. by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      If you want to be useful, just install free wifi repeaters (starting from the goddamn airports, please), like any other civilized city in Asia do.

      Like in Singapore where to use the Wifi you are required use the internet access you don't have to log on and register at a web site, then click the link in the email they send. Genius!

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    3. Re:Tried them, they suck. by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      Intersection, a Google-backed startup, has already installed 1,000 of the kiosks in New York

      LinkNYC is already changing New York; two million people are now using the system

      So 2000 people are using each kiosk. I assume that crowd control is required, and I hate to think what the response time is like.

  11. City WiFi? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

    Has there ever been a city installed WiFi that didn't completely fail to work? I've tried a few. Not even airports can get it right. When a city, town, borough or municipality set out to provide public WiFi, they go on to demonstrate that they don't understand how to deploy RF services and that they don't understand how to maintain an internet service.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:City WiFi? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forget about city wifi and use CableWiFi or whatever your local cable monopoly calls it. Sports fans unwittingly deployed citywide guest wifi for you when they subscribed to cable. Just use it.

    2. Re:City WiFi? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Yes plenty. Many cities in Norway and Sweden provide public WiFi that works flawlessly. I also never had any problems with implementations in Hong Kong or mainland China or those offered in many parts of central Europe.

      Also I basically live at Airports including one of the largest hubs in Europe, and frankly airport WiFi also works quite flawlessly in most places. The last time I had an issue with airport WiFi was at Teeside and that issue was they only offered 15min free (but that was the least of my problems at that craphole).

    3. Re:City WiFi? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      In recent years, airports in Heathrow, Frankfurt, Barcelona, Belgium, Singapore, Tokyo and Penang all sucked for WiFi internet access. At least in Europe I can get a PAYG SIM that works Europe wide,

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    4. Re:City WiFi? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Greetings from Amsterdam's free WiFi. There's an option for premium as well, but as Youtube is currently having no problem I don't know why I would want to.
      By the way Schipol Airport today is setting a new record for number of passengers processed. Good news is the WiFi is holding up, bad news is I had to get here 3 hours early due to the incredible strain on the checkin system. *sigh*.

    5. Re:City WiFi? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I have no memory of Schipol's WiFi sucking, so it must be fine. I wish your packets swift passage.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    6. Re:City WiFi? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      More relevant will be next destination, Frankfurt. Hopefully my experience is better than yours :)

    7. Re:City WiFi? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      San Francisco, Chicago, Heathrow and Charles De Gaul are in my near future. In this instance, it's not a work trip so I may not care about WiFi.
       

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    8. Re:City WiFi? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Frankfurt was a bust. Frigging delayed flight. hahahahahaha WiFi is the least of that shithole's problems evidently. I remember having a positive opinion of Chicago, and Charles De Gaul. Heathrow on the other hand.... I actively avoid that airport when I can (also nothing to do with WiFi). Mind you WiFi does help too. I would tell you about the low opinion I have of Suvarnabhumi (Bangkok) where I am right now in an uncomfortable seat on the opposite side of the airport to my gate because they refuse to let people sit there.... but at least the WiFi works. ahahhahaha.

      I can't wait for the days where we can teleport to our destinations without going through this crap.

    9. Re:City WiFi? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I could tell you about what it's like on corporate jets, but that might not make you feel better about your situation in Suvarnabhumi.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    10. Re:City WiFi? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      :-) Flying is such an incredible mixed bag.

  12. It's all fun and games by bobstreo · · Score: 2

    Until the city's AI for whatever reason, classifies your future crime as imminent, or worse, decides your continued existence is no longer useful to it.

    The good news, the city rewards it's faithful, it's worshipers.

    1. Re:It's all fun and games by tsa · · Score: 2, Informative

      its.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    2. Re:It's all fun and games by Visarga · · Score: 1

      I trust that people of the future will be able to fight fire with fire and compensate their losses in other ways.

    3. Re:It's all fun and games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until the city's AI for whatever reason, classifies your future crime as imminent, or worse, decides your continued existence is no longer useful to it.

      The good news, the city rewards it's faithful, it's worshipers.

      ... it's compliant property.

  13. Seen that movie already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It will get fun when they de-frost Wesley Snipe and then Sylvester Stallone to run after the psychopathic monster they've unleashed.

  14. What New York needs: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Televisions that require the owner to watch a special channel for 5 minutes every day, followed by the owner facing the camera on the TV and then saying "I love Big Brother". While smiling.

    Failure to do so will summon the authorities, who will then take the terrorist to a Happy Camp, where the terrorist will either learn to love Big Brother, or they will be executed.

    1. Re:What New York needs: by Visarga · · Score: 1

      I think I've seen this movie.

  15. Depends who owns and runs the sensors etc. by hughbar · · Score: 2

    Just a simple thought experiment tells you all you need to know. In scenario one, the sensors are all run by Google and Facebook, in scenario two they are run by the municipality and all the data is open. That's very crude and, in a mixed economy, the ownership is likely to be mixed too, but see below. However, the Roomba discussion provides some indicators about what will eventually happen to data that is in commercial hands.

    It's also worth noting that sensor networks and infrastructures are, to some extent rivalrous, in the economics sense. That is, they compete for physical placement, for bandwidth and (probably) for standards and protocols.

    There's questions of scope, governance and separation too. For example, I never go into Apple stores and that's a choice, but I may have to go into a hospital. I personally don't mind advertising beacons because I choose not to have a smart phone and don't receive their output. I don't want any of my data sold on, but have zero faith in GAFAM (Google, Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft, as proxies for the usual suspects) not to do that.

    I think 'we' can do really good things with city data and wrote about it somewhat in 2009 but that was on the basis of municipal control, public health and ecological objectives. The current picture looks a lot more invasive and murkier.

    --
    On y va, qui mal y pense!
    1. Re:Depends who owns and runs the sensors etc. by hord · · Score: 1

      After a week the sensors will be "owned" by various multinationals in the Eastern Bloc.

    2. Re:Depends who owns and runs the sensors etc. by hughbar · · Score: 1

      Yes, you're probably right. If they're pollution sensors etc. it may not matter unless the hack disables them. If they're cameras and/or things connected to actuators of some kind, that's a different picture.

      --
      On y va, qui mal y pense!
  16. They will do it quietly in other ways. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In my particular city they are doing it by rolling out hundreds of new cameras as part of 'traffic light upgrades'. Formerly they had to place warnings up at every intersection that had 'red light cameras'. But they are slowly being replaced with live cellular video feeds. Judging by the cameras, either 1080p or 2160p quality (they are MUCH larger than normal webcams, but much smaller than the former 'flash bulb' cameras which provided limited capture within the flash window. Some of the freeway 'traffic cams' were similiar to the old designs but had hardwired feeds to the city police/county sheriff service centers. The new ones, who knows.

    Point being: Travel via car in this town is already under almost complete surveillance. While there may be certain areas of town that could be traversed without hitting a single camera, all the major intersections have them now. Combined with the automated license plate tracking software already in service in 'commercial' settings, and given that these cameras are no doubt operated by a 'private company' thus circumventing the laws around law enforcement performing unwarranted surveillance, while being 'acceptable' due to being a public thoroughfare, it can be assumed all that information is being collated and provided to local, if not federal government employees for a monthly service fee with a wing and a nudge for working around that pesky implication of SOME privacy while you travel, now that ubiquitous surveillance is cheap, plentiful, and privately operated and owned.)

    And the worst part is: everybody around me thinks it is okay, acceptable, or that I am bad for thinking that some semblance of privacy in one's daily travels should be preferable.

    1. Re:They will do it quietly in other ways. by Visarga · · Score: 1

      I feel for the loss of privacy, but we need to accept it. Hard drives are cheap, webcams are cheap, bandwidth is cheap, everyone carries a cellphone, and AI can pre-screen lots of data -> nothing can stop it now. We need to think about how can a surveillance society function. We need to discover the new "normal life".

    2. Re:They will do it quietly in other ways. by hord · · Score: 2

      Or we could try to do something about it. Technology can be broken and bent. We aren't slaves to it because we made it.

    3. Re:They will do it quietly in other ways. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I feel for the loss of privacy, but we need to accept it.

      Why?

      Something doesn't become acceptable just because it is possible or because it is easy.

  17. "You have no privacy: get over it" by Archtech · · Score: 1
    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
  18. Where are all the Betteridge weenies now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, you mean not every question can be answered with a smug and unthinking "No" hyperlinked to the Wikipedia page for Betteridge's law of headlines?
    Remember that next time you pull that crap in response to other questions.

  19. New angle... by mapkinase · · Score: 1

    ... to "the city that never sleeps"

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  20. Will 'Smart Cities' Violate Our Privacy? by markdavis · · Score: 1

    Yes

    They already do,

  21. Maybe we should shove it up your ass... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe we should shove it up your ass...

  22. They already do by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 4, Informative

    Friend, they already do violate our privacy. There are cameras at every intersection, and everywhere else (ATM cameras, security cameras, and so on). Your 'smartphone' has a highly sensitive GPS receiver in it, which (despite any settings of yours to the contrary) is on all the time, can pinpoint your location to within a few meters even deep inside a multi-floor building, and reports that position on demand (or all the time for all anyone knows). Even without GPS your position can be determined by triangulating from cell towers. Any WiFi that your phone connects to, even briefly, can be used to geolocate you. Unless you pay cash for everything walking around, your purchases not only pinpoint your location, they add to a list of your purchasing habits, from which your behavior can be predicted. If you live in a big urban city like New York and take a cab everywhere, your movements are tracked that way, too. There are microphones all over the place that are part of a gunshot detection/location system, and for all we know those are also used to listen in on people in public; leveraging your smartphone to listen in on you is a trivial task, too. Having free WiFi all over a city like New York, that enables anyone to have Internet access for free wherever they go in the city is just the final nail in the coffin of your privacy; you're now 'connected' everywhere you go, watched, and listened to in redundant ways. Not carrying a smartphone and paying for everything with cash isn't even enough and may just flag you as a potential criminal/extremist/terrorist/person of interest. Using the Internet at all these days, even with a VPN, still leaks all sorts of information about you, especially if you're so dumb as to use so-called 'social media', which EXISTS to collect information about you, ostensibly to sell you things, but also so governments can produce a profile/dossier of you -- just in case you're a terrorist. Using Tor is better and worse than a VPN because there are things you just can't do using Tor, and I'm certain it's like that on purpose. The only way you can have any modicum of privacy anymore is to live in the middle of nowhere, have a landline phone and no smartphone, stay off the Internet, and pay for everything you can with CASH, never use credit or plastic or even checks if you can help it, and stay away from urban centers as much as possible. Sadly doing all the above, in the current socio-political climate, will flag you to law enforcement as a potential criminal, extremist, or out-and-out terrorist, and you might well be specifically scrutinized because of it. If you're married and have kids, it's basically impossible to be 'off the grid' unless you're all on on the same page somehow -- and kids especially won't put up with being isolated and ostracized because their dad is a 'nutjob' who won't let then use Facebook or have a smartphone. Basically, until the current socio-political climate changes, you have damned little privacy of any kind, except in your own home, with the blinds shut and no electronics that could listen in on you -- and it's highly unlikely that any time in the near future that any of this is going to change. First people have to WANT it to change. Good luck with that.

    1. Re:They already do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Schmucks, you live in an arena and complain that people are watching you. come out of the bubble to the Rest of The World (TM) where nobody is installing ubiquitous internet and cameras everywhere.

      New York is certainly no model for all cities, it certainly doesn't map to any of the cities I've visited or lived in. PARTS of cities, maybe, the core, but unless you're adding in all the surrounding areas to your characterization of New York, it certainly isn't Dallas, or Houston, or L.A., or Miami, or Seattle, or Honolulu, or Chicago, or Phoenix, or Paris, Nice, Vancouver, or Osaka either.

      So no matter what Unabomber Dreamworld you live in, this is Trump-level overstated bullshit.
      " The only way you can have any modicum of privacy anymore is to live in the middle of nowhere, have a landline phone and no smartphone, stay off the Internet, and pay for everything you can with CASH, never use credit or plastic or even checks if you can help it, and stay away from urban centers as much as possible. Sadly doing all the above, in the current socio-political climate, will flag you to law enforcement as a potential criminal, extremist, or out-and-out terrorist, and you might well be specifically scrutinized because of it. If you're married and have kids, it's basically impossible to be 'off the grid' unless you're all on on the same page somehow -- and kids especially won't put up with being isolated and ostracized because their dad is a 'nutjob' who won't let then use Facebook or have a smartphone. Basically, until the current socio-political climate changes, you have damned little privacy of any kind, except in your own home, with the blinds shut and no electronics that could listen in on you -- and it's highly unlikely that any time in the near future that any of this is going to change. First people have to WANT it to change. Good luck with that."

    2. Re:They already do by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      Cut him some slack and show some respect. "Rick Schumann" is obviously "Richard Stallman" mistyped.

    3. Re:They already do by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      There's no point in responding to the AC jerk so you get the response instead.

      If all anyone has to offer is base insults and no factual refutation of anything I wrote, then it's pretty clear you have nothing of value to add to the conversation and just shouldn't bother. Everything I said is based on well-known facts and news stories in numbers high enough that it'd take quite some time for me to source them all just for the sake of a bunch of strangers on the Internet. You don't like what I'm saying? You don't believe me? Go disprove me with FACTS and keep your insults to yourself. More likely is that people like the two of you are just so deeply in denial about the facts of our modern life that you just can't accept it.

    4. Re:They already do by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      Definitely sounds like Richard Stallman.

      Hey, I was on your side. Nothing of value added though.

    5. Re:They already do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see cameras everywhere I go and I avoid big cities like the plague. Nice try bub.

  23. It may sound crazy, but. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mobile technology is not the same beast as old fashioned phone service, and I don't like the idea of utilizing a strictly public network for it. It would be easier and cheaper to simply enforce some laws and regulate the telcos and service providers. This seems designed to benefit the city of New York, not the people of New York. Regulating data collection would be a huge deal. This is the opposite. This is just thinly veiled surveillance to profit the city, not a humanitarian act or bold act of innovation. Sorry, but there are better ways to go about this, and I sincerely hope the rest of the country pursues those avenues instead. A VPN only gets one so far, if they are even allowed on the public network, and most folks don't have any awareness of those kinds of options. The coasts are more authoritarian (then again, that's where all of the wealth is concentrated) than our central government could ever hope to be, and that's saying something. No, thanks!

  24. More than half a million people without a computer by Christopher+Fritz · · Score: 1

    A 2015 study conducted by New York City found that more than a quarter of city households had no internet connectivity at home, and more than half a million people didn't own their own computer...

    In the past few years, I've found more and more people who no longer touch their desktop computer at home. With their smartphone, they have no need for a desktop computer anymore. I'm curious how many of the half a million people mentioned here have smartphones, and how many are old people who are not interested in computers and the Internet.

  25. Need laws, not physical restrictions. by joe_frisch · · Score: 1

    I think its too late. There are so many forms of surveillance that adding another really won't change things. At this point I think its better to lobby for strong laws to protect how the data is *used*. Trying to control what is collected is a lost cause .

  26. Now the three letter agencies ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    will be able to track you down to the street lamp level. In other news, Big Brother turns green with envy.

  27. And even bring extra money into the city coffers.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your government is not there to make you money and when it does, you are the one who eventually will suffer.

    Don't like your government now, wait until they see you as a product to be bought and sold.
    Many states and cities use their police force ticketing to make money for the city, drive through one and see just how bad the policing is. They become more focused on ticket revenue than actually deterring crime, eventually the city starts using it to cover budget shortfalls. Need a small boost, setup a speed trap. Need even more, rig the stoplight to go from yellow to red sooner, or just manually trigger the warning lights near a school to go red and ticket anyone who didn't notice your trickery (Fergusson, Missouri was notorious for this). All these tricks are extremely common throughout the midwest.

  28. The exception to the rule... by sconeu · · Score: 1

    Betteridge's Law of Headlines fails here.

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  29. If it's backed by Alphabet? by EvilStein · · Score: 1

    the answer is "of course" since you are the product.