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Free Movement of EU Citizens To Britain Will End in 2019 (standard.co.uk)
Free movement of EU citizens to Britain will end when the country leaves the EU in March 2019, Theresa May's spokesman said Monday, moving to contain a Cabinet row over immigration after Brexit. From a report: Downing Street (headquarters of the government of the United Kingdom) said on Monday it was "wrong" to suggest free movement would "continue as it is now" once Britain leaves the EU. It comes following days of confusion and rumours of infighting between Cabinet colleagues over the crucial issue of immigration after Brexit.
This prediction has been made in my home city, Birmingham, since I was born and it has never come to fruition, perhaps get your news from places other than the EDL, National Front or UKIP.
Exactly. Brexiteers either haven't figured this out or are in denials. Want to go to Spain? You'll need a visa. France? Visa. Ireland? Well, if you are travelling overland a visa and an amoured car.
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
Next week they will say something different. The only thing that this current UK government has been consistent about is pissing into the wind.
The British joined the EU with special conditions because their economy was in really bad shape. And now they want to leave to improve their economic position? This is really tragic. They seem to have decided that fucking themselves with a wire-brush is a really good idea. And now their moron-in-chief also wants a "hard" exit in addition? Well, we will miss you in the 1st world, that's for sure. And I am well aware that about half of you are _not_ terminally stupid. Makes it even more tragic.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Think of requiring the same to go from state to state. EU.. US, same type of thing.
I don't any longer feel for contributing to their economy when they make it difficult to get in.
My Pension date will be January 2018 so I can quit their new society of scare for and fear of their neighbours before it becomes problematic.
Not that I believe they will impose great barriers to EU citizen, even in the Maggie Thatcher days there were no real issues getting in.
The Bexiteers say they want to improve their standards of living by removing the EU rules and workers, well let me say there isn't a single employer in the UK that would hire an EU worker if he couldn't make money that way. Or more money than by employing a British national.
The underlying issue of the Brexit campaign is the same as Trumps Make America Great Again, the portion of the population that has a lack of Self-respect. For some reason they feel (in their own country!) inferior to their foreign born fellow citizen.
Something that has been instilled in parts of the British people by years of reading the tabloids that were full of nonsensical stories about crooked cucumbers and outsiders living of the meagre UK benefits. And other elements of the media that have never bothered much to set right these ridiculous misconceptions.
The bottom line is I feel sorry for the enlightened Brits and the Europeans that had a good commercial relation with them.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Either scenario, or a combination of the two, would require unbelievably high birth rates and levels of emigration that only happen in countries with civil wars or mass famines.
In other words, no, Britain is not going to be majority Muslim in 10 years. To believe so requires such an intense degree of stupidity that it's difficult to imagine how one would have the cognitive function sufficient to operate a keyboard... or a flush toilet.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The entire point of the Common Market, and ultimately the EU was more than simply to have a trading bloc. It is to create extremely tight economic integration. There's a rather good reason for this, seeing as Europe had just gone through two cataclysmic general wars, and if you cast the net back a bit further, you have also have the Napoleonic Wars and major conflicts like the Franco-Prussian War. In other words, this is a region that was blown to bits multiple times over the last few centuries.
Tight economic integration inevitably means some degree of political union. Now we can debate how much is too much, but in general, even in those countries where EU resentment is highest, countries like Poland, Hungary and Greece, people still in general view the EU positively. The Greeks made clear through multiple elections over the last five or six years that even with intense austerity, they not only want to remain in the EU, but the Eurozone.
These claims that somehow Britain is the canary in the coalmine, that somehow there is going to be this exodus of nations from the EU, really are little more than a shallow attempt by Leavers to try to justify what just about everyone now knows to have been a stunningly idiotic referendum result.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Why do you think it will be the same afterwards? The EU won't just give it to us, it will be part of the negotiations which at the moment don't seem to be going too well.
Here in the US, I'm wondering what the big deal is for requiring an passport to move between sovereign countries over there?
I thought that was pretty much the norm for most of the world....?
As another poster has already said, you should be thinking in terms of states.
One of the reasons for the US's global dominance in the 20th century was the size of the country, and the amount of economic activity that could be carried out within its borders. Free movement of workers between states allowed the workforce to move very rapidly, and any "goldrush" (Detroit becoming "motor city", the birth of Hollywood) saw mass migrations from all over. Now imagine what would have happened in Hollywood if anyone who wasn't Californian wasn't allowed in without a lengthy immigration process that couldn't be started until they had a job -- it would have been very different.
Think about all the noise over H1B, and imagine if Microsoft had to apply for an H1B to hire anyone not born in Washington State.
Imagine Google applying for H1Bs for all their staff not born in California.
And imagine all the people in the Grain Belt who would have highly restricted choice of profession, because they're not allowed to move to where the work is.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
Demographic change can happen much quicker than one expects.
Look at Hamtramck, Michigan and Dearborn, Michigan for examples of this happening recently.
Even as late as the 1970s, the residents of Hamtramck were nearly all (90%) from Poland, or of Polish descent. But by 2000, Poles made up only about 10% of the population. By 2015 it had the first majority Muslim city council in the US.
Dearborn is similar. Once mainly populated by people of European origin or descent, as of 2010 over 40% of its population was of Arab ancestry, with many of them practicing Islam.
A city like Birmingham is moderately large, so it may take longer to see it happen. But when you factor in birth rate differentials, immigration rates, emigration rates, and death rates, a non-Muslim city could easily become a Muslim-majority city within two or three generations.
Depending on how long you live, there's a good chance you'll experience it later in your life, even if you don't see it today. Your children (or hypothetical ones, if you're impotent) will experience it.
Is this even possible? How many eggs do they lay during a single breeding cycle? Google seems to be lacking specifics on that.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Most Muslims in the UK come from the Commonwealth.
With very little paper work they receive an UK resident permit, even citizenship and also a passport if they want.
The EU has absolutely nothing to do with the UK's perceived "Muslim problem".
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Not a direct comparison....states are not sovereign countries.
Hence the name "United States"....
There is not a difference in the states of customs, languages, etc....so, not quite the same thing.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The top 10 male baby names in 2017 for the UK: http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/07/...
Mohammed or any of the combinations does not even make it to the top 100
European countries have not surrendered the control over their borders to others, they have moved border protection from internal to external.
What went wrong and can be easily fixed, is they forgot to improve and finance the border controls of the outer countries.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
You still, even after I pointed out, ignore the first country to leave the EU and how it has benefited that country greatly.
I assume you're talking about Greenland, though technically the first country to leave the EU was Algeria. It's not at all clear that leaving the EU was a good choice for Greenland, and there have been a lot of calls recently in Greenland for re-entry. Mainly to promote some economic diversity, because the current almost single-product economy is very shaky.
Greenland is also a very different case from the UK, which has a large and diverse economy much of which depends on supply chains that are tightly integrated with the EU. Greenland's fishing industry doesn't need much in the way of raw materials from other countries, and what it does need it gets from Denmark. And Greenland has an "in" to the EU marketplace through Denmark as well, since it's part of Denmark and Denmark is part of the EU.
Greenland's situation is nothing at all like the UK's, and it's not clear that leaving the EU has been unambiguously good for Greenland.
Leaving is going to be a disaster for the UK. It took a bit longer than expected for their economy to begin to tank, but it's happening now and it's just going to get worse from here. So far growth has slowed significantly, and contraction is around the corner. The harder the divorce the worse it's going to be, too.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
And apparently name their boy children Asher, the new undercover Muslim name!
I see your information is from the tabloids only.
Why do you think these people come to the UK? It's not for fantastic health care, the great housing or transport system, all these things are way better in other NW European countries.
They come because there are contrary to other EU countries very few limits to getting benefits from the bat and the very low minimum wage makes them interesting to employers.
These issues could have easily been fixed at Westminster if it weren't for the total control by Tory supporting cheap-ass employers.
Have a look at the numbers of EU citizen v.s. those from Commonwealth countries that make up the immigrants, the problems you refer to are mainly caused by the latter, not the first.
Also, any erosion of living standards in the UK is only for those in the lower and middle income brackets, an ages old UK classes problem where the Upper Classes are doing just fine.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
The wars were not the only reason for tight integration. If you want to have really free and fair trade between nations then they all need to be playing by the same rules. The same standards, the same rules everywhere so that products and services can flow freely and no-one gains an unfair advantage.
There is also the collective bargaining power that comes from being the second largest economy in the world. Outside of the EU, countries are already lining up to bully the UK into accepting their terms. Trump wants a quick deal because he knows we are weak and desperate, open to accepting US chlorinated chicken and hormone infused beef to lessen the pain of Brexit.
Brexit is making the EU stronger. Merkel and Macron are reforming it, renewing it. Cameron could have been with them, getting the changes he wanted, if he had participated and built support instead of presenting a list of demands backed up by a threat.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
In the case of both Greenland and Iceland, both have done very well after leaving the EU.
Greenland is a frozen rock of fifty thousand souls that relies on Danish subsidies and selling fishing rights that it could never defend anyway.
Iceland never joined the EU, and is still negotiating to do so. It has, however, been a member of the European Free Trade Area since 1994. Whatever you think about it's economy, EU , or even EEC membership has not been a factor. It isn't even showing particular objections to it's current trade status as far as I know.
You can say they are nothing alike, but that is obviously false. The economies are different, obviously, but the reasons for their departure is the same.
One never departed, the other is a technicality of no great importance.
The EU has gone well beyond it's original trade capacity and went into full on social policy. Which is why other members of the EU have been pushing back very hard against policies the EU is imposing. Poland is probably the most vocal example, but not the only example.
Your factual deficiencies aside, I am not aware of either Iceland or Greenland raising any particular objections to any EU Social Policies.
My posts are not really to debate the metrics of each member, former member, but to argue against GP who gave a faulty piece of ad hominem against the UK for their decision to leave.
Then why include such untrue statements in them? You would be well advised to apologize for your mistaken assertions instead.
That leave vote as in the works for a very long time with a whole lot of the populace getting out.
Actually, it was under 75% turnout, and a bare majority. Without a negotiated plan. Disdain for that process is justified.
Further, the doom and gloom irrationality of GP is discounted completely by other members who _did_ leave and have not crashed and burned because of it.
But s.petry, there really are none. Greenland? Still sucking at Copenhagen's teat, Algeria? Yeah, an Islamic oil satrapy. Iceland? Never an EU member, still a member of the free trade zone.
You can have your own opinions. But not your own facts.
Around 4.4% of the population said they were Muslim at the last census (2011). Keep in mind that the census tends to inflate the numbers because the people filling it in put their kids down as being religious when they aren't really and stop participating when they grow up.
Anyway, that's up 1.7% since 2001, so in a decade. At that rate, by 2050 a massive 10% of the population will be Muslim. I don't think we have too much to worry about.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
It seems unlikely that freedom of movement will really end. Maybe in the sense that EU nationals will no longer have the right to work in the UK or use UK services as anything other than tourists, and of course the same for UK citizens living in Europe. But politically they won't be able to close that border, and people will move freely across it.
In practice that means that people will be able to bring family members in via the border, for example. It will create a new underclass of immigrants from the EU who don't have visas, can't work, don't have proper access to government services and the NHS, and which are impossible for the government to track and manage.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
States within the US do not have wildly different values, cultures, and fiscal/financial policy like the "states" of the EU.
Yes you do. Do California and Alabama look anything a like in their values, cultures and fiscal/financial policy? If there were any similarities in values, cultures, and fiscal/financial policy you wouldn't get such heated elections like we did in 2016. I don't see anywhere in the EU losing their shit during election season to the same extent. Even with brexit it seemed tame compared to the shit show of Clinton and Trump. The point of free movement in the US is to vote with your feet. Don't like the local laws in your state? Move to one that a better fit for you or where the jobs.
What the US has are the same rights/core law, language, and currency. It seems to me that the EU is very close to that, except for the language ofc.
Maybe to you, but me as an EU citizen I prefer having a European border agency controlled by the EU parliament instead of all kinds of small (Like Albanian, Montenegrin and Macedonian) local governments setting their individual policies.
A bit like the Mexican-US border, what would work better, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California each policing by themselves or the Federal border force?
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
But the EU is more of an economic confederation with open borders than a federalist union of semi-sovereign states. The current "United States" is USA 2.0. where as USA 1.0 was something more similar to the economic confederation of the EU. As brexit and the lack of an EU army is showing is that the central government is fairly weak in its ability to force certain actions or keep members from leaving (which may or may not be a good thing depending on who you are).
As Kyosuke pointed out, it's historically happened - in countries like Syria, Egypt, Iran, Indonesia, Malaysia, the stans, the Indian sub-continent... And in Europe, in Albania, Bosnia.
No, most of those conversions happened after conquest, not during. Like for instance, Iran was first conquered by the caliphs, but conversion to Islam happened mainly in the 9th & 10th centuries under the Samanids & Buyids. In short, discriminatory policies were set up that made Zoroastrians second class citizens to Muslims, and to escape that, the bulk of them converted to Islam. Same story in Syria, Egypt & the rest of North Africa. In the East Indies, after a ruler converted to Islam, he decreed that his subjects had to convert as well, and that's how Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei & Mindanao all became Muslim.
Not very different in Europe today. You have policies that make it hate crimes to protest Muslim immigration into these countries, and neither the Left nor the Right in Europe is willing to tolerate any opposition to that, the former b'cos it's made common cause w/ the Jihad, and the latter b'cos it's scared of being branded racist. Take UK for example. Neither the Tories nor Labour endorse any plans to deport all Muslims out of the UK, despite the fact that ALL the attacks in the UK have been done by Muslims, and that too in the name of allah. So Muslims can keep coming in, and there will come a time when they will not just have mayors like Sadiq Khan, but a majority of city councils and legislators will be Muslim as well. After a certain threshold, it won't be far fetched to declare the UK an Islamic kingdom.
Not sure whether to laugh out cry at this.
The EU has given us more power, more control and more sovereignty. Look at how strong consumer rights and employment rights are under it. Look at how the EU is able to tell the US to go fuck itself when it suits us.
Outside the EU, we have countries lining up to screw us. How is being forced to accept US farming standards, far inferior to our own, "taking back control" or increasing our sovereignty?
The EU is getting stronger. The far right and the populists have been exposed and rejected. Support for the EU is up, it's reforming itself and pushing ahead with the project now that the UK can't hold it back.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
They figure if they can wait long enough, they can replace the will of the people with the will of the Eurocrats.
What will is that. "the people" voted to leave, but they didn't vote for any specific form of leave.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
The entire point of the Common Market, and ultimately the EU was more than simply to have a trading bloc. It is to create extremely tight economic integration. There's a rather good reason for this, seeing as Europe had just gone through two cataclysmic general wars, and if you cast the net back a bit further, you have also have the Napoleonic Wars and major conflicts like the Franco-Prussian War. In other words, this is a region that was blown to bits multiple times over the last few centuries.
Exactly. That's what the moronic Brexiteers (and the other ridiculous nationalist, inward-looking, xenophobic forces all over Europe) seem to ignore, wilfully or otherwise - get rid of the EU and we are back to the different countries in Europe beating the crap out of each other on a regular basis. Brexiteers also seem to ignore that the British empire is long dead and buried. If they think that they are going to be able to bully and exploit the ex-colonies as they used to, they are in for a huge surprise - the stupid PM May already had a taste of things to come when she traveled to India a few months back; the Indians wasted no time in showing her the door after her lame attempts to strongarm them.
First understnad that immigration and customs are separate things. Immigration is about you, customs is about your stuff. The lanes are a customs thing.
First immigration, an EU citizen can show their passport or national ID card (if their country issues them) to border control of any EU country and with very few exceptions they will be let in. Once in they can live and work in the target country without needing to get a visa, work permit or similar. Some non-EU visitors can visit without a visa but they will be subject to limitations on the length and purpose of their stay and may have to convince a border gaurd that they are indeed a legitimate visitor. People from outside the EU wanting to work will need to get a visa and/or work permit (the details vary a bit by country) which can be a long and arduous process.
Then customs, the blue lane is for arrivals from other countries in the EU with nothing to declare. The green line is for arrivals from outside the EU with nothing to declare. The red lane is for travellers with goods to declare. Some countries don't bother with the blue lane and only have red and green lanes. Customs is about goods, so what matters is where you travelled from and what goods you are brining in with you, not your citizenship.
For normal goods* you can take as much as you like between EU countries without any need to declare them regardless of whether it is for personal or commercial use. OTOH if entering from outside the EU you must declare anything above a relatively low threshold and anything that is being imported on a commercial basis. You will then be expected to pay VAT and possibly customs duty.
* There are a handful of exceptions, for example tobacco and alcohol imported commercially (or in sufficiently large volumes that customs belive the imports are commerical).
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
In fact, the Leave campaign and prominent Leave proponents all said we could stay in the single market, which means retaining freedom of movement. This isn't what was voted for at all.
https://youtu.be/0xGt3QmRSZY
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
The worst part is how when immigrants or the children of immigrants want to integrate, want to be British, and these idiots tell them that they can't be. Incompatible culture, wrong accent, funny name, as if those things make people British.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC