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iOS 10 Quietly Deprecated A Crucial API For VoIP and Communication Apps (apple.com)

neutrino38 warns that iOS 10 includes a significant change "overlooked by the general public": It deprecates an API that is crucial for VoIP and other instant messaging applications that enable keeping one socket active despite the fact that the application would run in the background. As a replacement, developers need to use PushKit: when an incoming call is to be forwarded to an iOS VoIP client, the VoIP infrastructure needs to:

- withold the call
- contact Apple push infrastructure using a proprietary protocol to wake up the client app remotely
- wait for the application to reconnect to the infrastructure and release the call when it is ready

This "I know better than you" approach is meant to further optimize battery life on iOS devices by avoiding the use of resources by apps running in background. It has also the positive effect of forcing developers to switch to a push model and remove all periodic pollings that ultimately use mobile data and clog the Internet. However, the decision to use an Apple infrastructure has many consequences for VoIP providers:

- the reliability of serving incoming calls is directly bound to Apple service
- Apple may revoke the PushKit certificate. It thus has life and death decision power over third-party communication infrastructures
- organizations wanting to setup IPBX and use iOS client have no option but to open access for the push services of Apple in their firewall
- It is not possible to have iOS VoIP or communication clients in network disconnected from the Internet - Pure standard SIP clients are now broken on iOS

The original submission argues that Apple is creating "the perfect walled garden," adding that "Ironically, the only VoIP 'app' that is not affected is the (future?) VoLTE client that will be added to iOS one day."

64 of 122 comments (clear)

  1. Meh by NettiWelho · · Score: 1, Troll

    I think the real joke here is that for a price of one of their phones you could instead have 2 kilos of pure silver.

    1. Re: Meh by Zone-MR · · Score: 5, Funny

      What an amazing world we live in, that a state of the art device featuring communication radios, cameras, a display, and phonomenal processing power is available for the same price as a chunk of metal.

    2. Re: Meh by NettiWelho · · Score: 2, Funny

      What an amazing world we live in, that a state of the art device featuring communication radios, cameras, a display, and phonomenal processing power is available for the same price as a chunk of metal.

      Yet the the people who make these things need suicide nets around the buildings because.. reasons?

    3. Re: Meh by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yet the the people who make these things need suicide nets around the buildings because..

      ...because they are considered to be worth more than a college student in America, that have significantly higher suicide rates.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    4. Re: Meh by NettiWelho · · Score: 1

      As far as I am aware my computer or phone don't contain any components made by foxconn

    5. Re: Meh by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      I have old 486 motherboards where the ISA slot board edge connectors are branded Foxconn.

    6. Re: Meh by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      The silver will retain it's worth. Five years later what is the Iphone worth?

    7. Re: Meh by epine · · Score: 1

      ...because they are considered to be worth more than a college student in America, that have significantly higher suicide rates.

      I hate to break your bitter pill, but once American colleges fully implement the mandatory age-parity quotas, your beloved suicide rate will no longer thrive in this equation.

    8. Re: Meh by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      I have old 486 motherboards where the ISA slot board edge connectors are branded Foxconn.

      You have any Intel branded Mobo from the last 15 years? Made by Foxconn.

      Apparently not. that this is not und only uses 25 year old 486 computers.

  2. It's needed to preserve the battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It provides defense against lazy app writers. And it's courageous.

    1. Re: It's needed to preserve the battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Lazy app writers are the reason so much shit is on the Android platform and Steam platform. Lazy writers use middleware libraries without understanding the consequences of their use.

    2. Re: It's needed to preserve the battery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It just shows you who Apple thinks itâ(TM)s customer is. Theyâ(TM)re choosing to favour their user experience over their app developers wish to be lazy and to potentially do neferious things tracking the user constantly.

      Not that surprising considering which of those pays Apple to buy a price of hardware. And not the kind of move google would do given that the app developer is their true customer.

    3. Re: It's needed to preserve the battery by msauve · · Score: 2

      "It just shows you who Apple thinks itÃ(TM)s customer is. TheyÃ(TM)re choosing to favour their user experience over their app developers wish to be lazy "

      Exactly the opposite of /., which favors their lazy developers over the improved user experience which would come with Unicode support.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    4. Re: It's needed to preserve the battery by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      They favor their own pockets and draconic tendencies and nothing else. You are nothing but cow for them to be regularly milked.

    5. Re: It's needed to preserve the battery by ls671 · · Score: 1

      Who needs fricking Unicode support to type an apostrophe? It is ASCII code 39, that should be compatible enough with anything. But, no, people use fancy Unicode apostrophes, sometimes OS specific. Why?

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    6. Re: It's needed to preserve the battery by msauve · · Score: 1

      Ahhh. Your problem is you don't know the difference between an apostrophe and single or curly quotes.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    7. Re: It's needed to preserve the battery by ls671 · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, it makes me think that every time something is working fine, somebody comes along to change it. Typewriter apostrophe has been around, well, since typewriters!

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      MS-WORD doesn't even use the same quotation marks for English and French because of those printing inspired people that say that a symbol looks nicer than another depending on the language, establish trends etc. when the used symbol adds no value at all and everybody understands what the symbol means anyway.

      MS-Word had problems implementing that functionality first and many people still have problems, it goes from language analyzer to syntax validation software. Here are a few examples after a very quick search:

      https://tedclancy.wordpress.co...

      http://www.fileformat.info/inf...

      https://www.quora.com/Punctuat...

      http://snowball.tartarus.org/t...

       

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    8. Re: It's needed to preserve the battery by msauve · · Score: 1

      Curly quotes have been around and working fine since, well, before Gutenberg. It's typewriters which made the change.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    9. Re: It's needed to preserve the battery by ls671 · · Score: 1

      Nice find; printing is older than typewriters!

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    10. Re: It's needed to preserve the battery by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 1

      The company cares about security, battery life, and customer satisfaction.

      Yeah, that doesn't sound like it was copy-pasted from Apple's Marketing Dept.

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
    11. Re: It's needed to preserve the battery by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Ahhh. Your problem is you don't know the difference between an apostrophe and single or curly quotes.

      Neither do you. The appropriate punctuation symbol for it's and they're is an apostrophe.

      It looks like the AC got some of the quotation marks correct, but wanted to use a righthand single curly quotation mark in place of an apostrophe (and clicked through the preview without looking at it).

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
  3. Not exactly the truth... by gnasher719 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple deprecated the old VoIP interface one year ago. Absolutely obvious for anyone interested. But one year warning will obviously come as a surprise to some people.

    VoIP required that your phone was turned on, your app was running, and regularly pulled requests. An absolute battery eater. The new feature allows your phone to be asleep, use no energy, and wake up immediately when a call arrives.

    1. Re:Not exactly the truth... by Zaphon · · Score: 1

      Cool, guess I don't need to worry about getting calls remotely from my office's SIP phone system anymore. Sweet!

    2. Re:Not exactly the truth... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Informative

      VoIP required that your phone was turned on, your app was running, and regularly pulled requests. An absolute battery eater.

      That's silly. Android systems can sleep for days while have VoIP solutions, like Signal, installed and ready to receive a call (via its own listener).

      Unless you're saying iOS is somehow worse than Android in this regard.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    3. Re: Not exactly the truth... by Carewolf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That is because nothing about voip requires regular pings. If that was needed on iOS that was defect of the lazy Apple developers and not app develpers.

    4. Re:Not exactly the truth... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      It's potentially significant to me. It's new information because as I currently don't use an IOS device, I didn't either need to know this or follow deprecation warnings. It's significant in case I was contemplating getting such a device in the near future. (In the further future this will be rolled into "current features" that I'd evaluate when selecting the device.)

      So this is valuable news, at least potentially. (As it happens, I hadn't been seriously thinking of getting a new phone...and my current desires tend more towards the Jitterbug, i.e. purely a phone. But I have been contemplating a tablet.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    5. Re: Not exactly the truth... by corychristison · · Score: 1

      I agree.

      My Moto X Play (2 year old phone) still gets 2 days battery without issue.

      In addition to regular voice & text communications, I have two VOIP lines using Grandstream's GS Wave app. Works fantastic over both Wifi and 3G/4G/LTE.

    6. Re:Not exactly the truth... by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      I don't really see the problem with Apple (and Google too) forcing developers to use their push framework to be able to wake up on demand from network traffic.

      That said, if they simply use a blocking call on a socket the OS can go to sleep just as deeply as it can when it's all routed through the single push service.

    7. Re:Not exactly the truth... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
      I'd actually prefer an intermediate between these:
      1. App opens socket.
      2. App sends file descriptor to launchd.
      3. App saves all unsaved state and enters sudden termination mode.
      4. App is killed when there's memory pressure (kill -9).
      5. Launchd receives a wake-up event because there's available data on the socket.
      6. Launchd relaunches the app and passes it back a file descriptor to the socket.

      No need to bounce data via Apple, but the app can still quit when there's no data waiting for it.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:Not exactly the truth... by GNious · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking my turn-of-the-millenium cellphone's VoIP/SIP app had to be running, but don't recall any issues like regularly pinging a network or incurring a lot of data-traffic.
      Of course, I mostly used my phone to listen to MP3s while biking, so might just have been lack of usage.

    9. Re:Not exactly the truth... by Entrope · · Score: 1

      VoIP required that your phone was turned on, your app was running, and regularly pulled requests.

      Got a citation for that? SIP requires a UDP and/or TCP socket to be up and listening. It does not require that any IP data be transferred between calls. It *does* require the phone to communicate with the mobile network frequently enough for incoming calls or data sessions to be routed to the right place, but that is true for voice calls and push notifications as well...

      The new feature allows your phone to be asleep, use no energy, and wake up immediately

      ... so this part is also wrong, unless Apple has implemented their OS in an incompetent way, in which case you should clarify that only iPhones suffer from significantly higher battery use when an app keeps open a listening socket.

    10. Re:Not exactly the truth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Apple deprecated the old VoIP interface one year ago.

      Actually, they deprecated the old VoIP interface two year ago. And released iOS 10 without it to the public about a year ago. Yes, this a non-story when it was new a year ago. The fucking article is over one year old. For Christ sake, editors on dope again?

    11. Re:Not exactly the truth... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Unless you're saying iOS is somehow worse than Android in this regard.

      That's exactly the point of this change. Using PushKit, your phone can sleep for days and will be woken up by a VoIP phone call. The old method that is deprecated doesn't allow that.

    12. Re:Not exactly the truth... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      True, the API wasn't "quietly deprecated" in iOS 10 as the poster claims; it was removed in iOS10. The API in question was deprecated in iOS 9 which was released Sept 2015. With the iOS 9 SDK released in June 2015, that's more than 2 years of warnings. The response to the question even says as much :"In iOS 10, you should be using PushKit for handling push notifications for incoming VoIP calls . . once you move to iOS 10 our recommendation is to update your minimum deployment target to iOS 9 . . . " So it seems the poster hasn't paid attention to their apps in 2+ years.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  4. Re:Their REAL customers by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

    the carrier don't like what was disabled. Now you can't use an iPhone handset to bypass the carrier using VOIP

    Please explain this, since your comment means that one of us doesn't have a clue what he is talking about.

  5. Who was abusing the old API (FB?) by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 2

    I'm looking at you facebook; what are the chances they were abusing the old API. It sounds like a right pain in the ass from a development point of view. Maybe though with this there could be a way from phone calls interrupting my skype calls. That would be a huge win.

  6. Re:Their REAL customers by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

    Because data miraculously teleports to the iPhone.

    (If you want to claim you only ever use your phone with WiFi, first I don't believe you and second you are moot to carriers since you were already unwilling to be a customer.)

  7. This is great! by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now the next iPhone can be even thinner! I can't wait to call 911 and tell them I accidently cut myself with my new razor thin iPhone 12! -_-

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:This is great! by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Now the next iPhone can be even thinner! I can't wait to call 911 and tell them I accidently cut myself with my new razor thin iPhone 12!

      I hear they're going to call the next model the iPhone RAZR.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  8. Re:Is Anyone Really Surprised by guruevi · · Score: 2

    Pushing people to do things 'the right way' is preventing iPhone to turn into Android. This is ONLY targeting lazy developers that haven't updated their app in YEARS (this way of doing it has been possible since 2009 and PushKit as an alternative to polling announced and available since mid-2014).

    I'm very glad that VoIP apps don't eat all my battery because they have to poll a service every 5s. Many VoIP apps were simply garbage before iOS 3 and still are on Android, we complain about charging an iPhone once every 2 or 3 days, I had to charge twice a day when I had a particular IM app on an old iDevice, even a current Android I own, doesn't last more than a day when some VoIP/IM apps are open.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  9. Re: Their REAL customers by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

    Why would the carrier even CARE anymore? Actual voice calls are NOW almost more trouble & taxes than they're worth.

    Data, on the other hand, is their new big-ticket billable item... they LOVE apps that constantly poll for data, because a single-byte payload in a TCP/IP request generates a few hundred billable bytes of data transfer. Carriers would abandon voice & MAKE you find your own VoIP service if they thought they could get away with it. Voice calls are now just a loss-leader to sell data.

    With someone like AT&T, T-mobile, Verizon, or Sprint (where voice calls are free), they LOSE money (in state & federal taxes) every time someone makes a voice call. If you use some other VoIP service, it's win-win for the telco.

  10. Apple Has Planned This For A While by alancronin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple has let developers know that this change was coming for about a year and a half now. We develop a VoIP application and have been making changes well in advance of Apple fully deprecating the older socket mechanism. It does have the downside of giving Apple more control but Apple already has full control over whether you can publish to the App Store, how your UI should look (within reason based on guidelines), not duplicating system functionality, etc. However if this improves battery life and creates applications that are designed in a better fashion then it is positive change.

    1. Re:Apple Has Planned This For A While by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They did, and it really does leave a certain amount of LAN-only applications like my startup's in a lurch.

      I had the fortune of having an app server on premise and have written a push bridge, but lots of other developers don't have so much control over their backend (many SIP implementations, etc) and this change fundamentally ends their product viability.

      It really hurt us, and required we change strategies. That has been the Apple dance...

    2. Re:Apple Has Planned This For A While by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The concern that overrides all this, is that the change makes it impossible to support existing protocols, that do not require Apple-specific cloud infrastructure, on iOS.

  11. Re: Their REAL customers by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    With someone like AT&T, T-mobile, Verizon, or Sprint (where voice calls are free),

    Unlimited and free are not the same thing.

    they LOSE money (in state & federal taxes) every time someone makes a voice call.

    I'm not doubting you, but do you have any sort of citation for that statement?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  12. Design philosophy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Apple maintains full control over iPhones. It's not meant to be a computer-like device. Background apps have always been kept on a very short leash. An iPhone is a limited device that only does what Apple allows you to do. If you want a phone that is more like a computer, get an Android.

  13. Re: Their REAL customers by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 2

    In many ways carriers are becoming a dumb pipe and the evolution of their plans suggest that they are realising this. In many ways charging for data is of more value than charging for voice, if everyone is moving to third party apps.

    The value of keeping a phone number with your carrier is that it is still the closest to an universal contact ID, working across carriers. The same can't be said for solutions such as WhatsApp, Skype, Facebook and Google Hangouts.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  14. Important question that needs to be asked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    will this allow Apple, and as is always the case, any U.S. government agencies to get more insight or even subvert the use of secure communication apps?

    1. Re:Important question that needs to be asked by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      will this allow Apple, and as is always the case, any U.S. government agencies to get more insight or even subvert the use of secure communication apps?

      1. You are paranoid. 2. From personal knowledge, no.

  15. Re: Is Anyone Really Surprised by Carewolf · · Score: 1, Insightful

    They ARE doing the right thing on Android. The only ones doing something wrong is Apple.

  16. Not battery by gjh · · Score: 1

    There is no reason that listening on a socket needs to use ANY battery at all. It WOULD be wise to have a model for checking whether a packet is DoS/dealing with heartbearts before causing it to fire up the real app process, but given that, there is no reason why SIP can't be efficient. If the reasoning for this has anything to do with battery, then it's lazy.

    1. Re:Not battery by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      There is no reason that listening on a socket needs to use ANY battery at all. It WOULD be wise to have a model for checking whether a packet is DoS/dealing with heartbearts before causing it to fire up the real app process, but given that, there is no reason why SIP can't be efficient. If the reasoning for this has anything to do with battery, then it's lazy.

      No, it's not just a listening socket, because that wouldn't work on most networks (think NAT or firewalls).

      You need a constant connection, which means you can't shut down the cell modem to the lowest power state (a network connection must be maintained, which means the modem must be awake and doing handoffs because that data connection must remain, whereas if it didn't have to keep a connection, it could simply sign off the old tower and sign onto the new tower at a relaxed pace, instead of having to go through handoff procedures and getting the data context from the new tower).

      Or if it's WiFI, same, the WiFI radio must be kept active to respond to packets.

      And if you think Apple has to do the same, well, at the cellular level, there are dozens of ways to wake up a phone remotely as long as it's attached to the network in a low power standby state. These were devised way back when phones were just phones - to get those 14 day standby required the entire system consume no more than about... 3-5mA or so. You cannot transmit (takes lots of power), and powering the receiver takes a lot of power as well, so the network was designed to ensure a handset can go into a very low power quiescent state and still get notified and on the network.

      Maintaining a TCP connection already breaks all the power saving mechanisms built into cellular telephony. It's why Android and iOS both have out of band signalling mechanisms ("push notifications') so your VoIP and IM apps can get notified to fetch new messages. Good apps already use this, though there can often be a delay because the app has to get the notification, then request the system wake up, create a network connection, connect to the server, get the data, shut down the network connection and push a user notification, then go back to sleep.

      I'd say most apps are probably already compliant, especially ones based on mobile usage and already use the iOS/Android mechanism for this because it saves power.

  17. VOIP API on iOS by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Apple deprecated the old VoIP interface one year ago. Absolutely obvious for anyone interested. But one year warning will obviously come as a surprise to some people. VoIP required that your phone was turned on, your app was running, and regularly pulled requests. An absolute battery eater. The new feature allows your phone to be asleep, use no energy, and wake up immediately when a call arrives.

    Thanks for explaining this. I was curious about how that would affect Vonage Extensions, a VOIP app that I use. If the app still uses the old API, whether it would stop working. Same question for WhatsApp. I know that FaceTime audio is an option, but wouldn't work w/ non iPhones.

  18. Re:Is Anyone Really Surprised by tepples · · Score: 1

    So how can the operator of a local area network disconnected from the Internet run a private PushKit server?

  19. Re: Their REAL customers by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

    I can't quote a URL, but I used to work for a major telco & had a role in writing our billing software. Circa 2009, it cost *us* (in taxes and Tariff-mandated fees) more to terminate a landline call from Fort Lauderdale to Boca Raton than it cost for us to terminate a call from a landline phone in Fort Lauderdale to a landline phone in BRITAIN --
      because intra-LATA calls (a/k/a "local long-distance" calls) were among the most expensive ones you could make, while international calls actually had the least taxes.

  20. Re: Their REAL customers by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

    Yeah, that would make sense if practically every single mobile plan sold today didn't include unlimited call minutes, but limited data. The carriers would much rather the call be VoIP - they stand to make more money from packetized data than voice.

    What is the weather like 10 years ago?

    --
    Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
  21. Re: Their REAL customers by joemck · · Score: 1

    When so many plans are "unlimited calls and texts, some GB of data and if you go over you pay", calls are effectively free once you've paid your monthly base rate. You could spend the entire month on the phone 24/7 and not pay a cent more than if you never make a voice call. But for the carrier, each call consumes resources on their network, and if too many people make calls they have to upgrade their network or quickly gain a reputation for dropped calls. Therefore, a carrier would prefer if you pay for unlimited calls and then not make any.

    Data also consumes resources on the carrier's network, and I would guess it's more of a strain on the network than voice. Voice gets routed once at the start of a call and again if you handoff to another tower, and is a constant rate throughout the call. Data is routed per packet, and is very bursty. But it counts against a limit set in your plan, so your carrier would like you to use a lot of it because then they can charge you more.

    Then again, some carriers are starting to offer truly unlimited plans where you never pay extra and they just put you in a lower priority bracket if you use excessive amounts of data.

  22. Re:Is Anyone Really Surprised by guruevi · · Score: 2

    You could proxy it. It uses HTTP/2 so it can be proxied without requiring any SSL-shenanigans but otherwise that is the simplest method.

    Alternatively, the push notification protocol is open, well documented and very simple (JSON back and forth), people have made some reference implementations although most simply rely on the Apple infrastructure. Various commercial MDM have the feature although it's too bothersome for most people to set up so it's generally poorly documented since it's only useful for apps you can import and sign certificates for which would only be available in your own company 'app store'. But it boils down to including the various certificates for your custom implementation, importing them into the phone using a profile (which the user would have to accept). Then your app (and your app only) can talk to 'your' servers instead of Apple's.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  23. whoop dee dooo... by yodleboy · · Score: 1

    Make the damn phone 1mm thicker and put a bigger battery in it. Apple are determined to offer the smallest battery capacity they can get away with. Courage?

  24. Re: Bad battery. by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

    Apple phones are safer than Galaxy Notes because even if the battery does catch fire, it will be a tiny fire that rapidly fizzles out.

  25. Re:Forcing VoIP traffic onto internet by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

    That is actually a valid concern, a company which handles their internal communications through VOIP and a PBX are now reliant on Apple. I trust in avarice though, the risk of harming their brand represents far more money than the peanuts they could pick up with fucking around with the metadata. They make their money selling hardware, not their customers.

    By getting all the push messages into the same paging cycle of the mobile data network you can save a bit of energy and they can track apps which are programmed by morons and push too much shit. That's almost certainly the reason they are doing it.

  26. Re: Is Anyone Really Surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I know you just meant this as a troll but you picked the wrong topic.

    If you've been following android, you would know that Android N and O added much the same restrictions as iOS (with regard to apps running in the background or while the phone is dozing)

  27. Re:Their REAL customers by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

    And, perhaps more importantly, most SIP providers have endpoints in many countries and so the call costs are fairly uniform. It costs me about the same amount to call the UK or USA from my SIP client, but a lot more to call the US as a telephone call from the same phone. I mostly use SIP for international calls - it's a lot cheaper than using POTS.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  28. Re:Their REAL customers by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

    "Free", which is what my carrier charges for voice calls, is pretty damn cheap.

    Carriers want you to use your expensive data plan. This change reduces how much data you use. So it's actually bad for the cellular providers, since you're making more free calls and using less metered data.