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Is Apple Copying Palm's WebOS? (salon.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Salon: Released in 2009 by Palm -- the same company that popularized the PDA in the 1990s -- WebOS pioneered a number of innovations, including multiple synchronized calendars, unified social media and contact management, curved displays, wireless charging, integrated text and Web messaging, and unintrusive notifications [that have all been copied by the mobile operating systems that defeated it on the marketplace]. The operating system, built on top of a Linux kernel, was also legendary for how easily it could be upgraded by users with programming skills. WebOS was also special in that it used native internet technologies like JavaScript for local applications. That was a huge part of why it was able to do so much integration with Web services, something its competitors at the time simply couldn't match.
Apple's upcoming iOS 11 once again demonstrates how far ahead of its time WebOS really was. The yet-to-be-released Apple mobile system has essentially copied the WebOS model for switching apps by having the user swipe upward from the bottom to reveal several "cards" that represent background applications. While Apple's decision to remove its massively overworked Home button is an improvement, it is still an inferior way of switching apps, compared to what you could do on WebOS eight years ago.
Apple's upcoming iOS 11 once again demonstrates how far ahead of its time WebOS really was. The yet-to-be-released Apple mobile system has essentially copied the WebOS model for switching apps by having the user swipe upward from the bottom to reveal several "cards" that represent background applications. While Apple's decision to remove its massively overworked Home button is an improvement, it is still an inferior way of switching apps, compared to what you could do on WebOS eight years ago.
Same old story. Am I the only one who noticed how long it took for Macintosh to support multiple full-screen programs and easy switching between them, which Amiga had already done starting in 1985?
Grafitti.
I was so used to it, I caught myself using it on a whiteboard one time.
I still have it in a drawer and i pull it out from time to time. It really is a relic of an unrealized future, way ahead of its time. I have had dozens of smartphones, the Pre Plus is only one i bothered keeping after its useful life.
Good-bye
Man, talk about a burst of nostalgia.
My last Palm device was a Treo 650. Before that, I was firmly a PDA user because I didn't want to pay extra for unlimited data when I could use bluetooth and have it billed against my voice plan on Verizon. Boy, those were the days!
This was all through school. While I was of a nerdier persuasion, between gameboy, nes, and SNES emulators and an assortment of movies on my get this: 1GB SD card that I paid $60 for, people thought I was cool in a sort of Ferris Bueller type of way.
Handheld devices were so exciting, new, unique, and not an everyday gadget that most people had. I started with a Sony Cleo, migrated to a Tungsten E, fell in love with a Tapwave Zodiac, and then was seduced by the ever more and more compelling hardware devices on the Windows Mobile side.
Dell's Axim x50v was my first, followed by an x51v that I got Dell to replace for free out of warranty (hehe). Had a Treo 650 for a long time and then I got the nifty HTC xv6700 followed by the even more powerful xv6800. Tried another Windows Mobile phone and got fed up with it.
I went to a Blackberry after that and held out for as long as I could until Moto's Droid 4 got me into Android. Switched back to Blackberry and i've been using a Keyone ever since.
I had a really bad warranty experience with Blackberry and I think it's time I just go out and find a no name, keyboardless, boring candy bar smartphone off of ebay for $200. It was hard to justify the expense on my Keyone and the level of BS I went through to get it serviced wasn't worth being Blackberry's CS b!tch again.
Sigh, those were the days. This must be what car enthusiasts must have felt when cars started becoming computerized monstrosities. Yeah, technology marches on, things become streamlined,and cheaper but you lose the excitement and enthusiasm.
A lament of a bored hardware nerd.
That's pretty much all there is to it. Ditto Android. All roads lead to WebOS.
Everybody in this industry copies ideas from everybody else, we already know this and it has been the case for forever. Apple is not some great inventor of ideas to be called out when they have the audacity to implement a concept that somebody else already implemented. Their original idea of what multitasking should be like was rubbish, so they copied the way that Windows Phone did it and that's a good thing. The control center was a copy of what Android was doing and that's a good thing otherwise you end up with shitty implementations purely as a result of NIH syndrome. Likewise these products copied concepts that Apple came up with.
Are people really surprised to find out that many of the features being introduced in this industry have been done before? Yes webOS was a decent operating system (and so was Maemo and Meego and Windows Phone and FirefoxOS, etc) but it wasn't successful because the things that made them good weren't disruptive and compelling enough to make people abandon their existing platform. "Oooh you close an app by swiping up on its 'card' instead of pressing the little 'x' on its app icon"...it's nice to have but it isn't going to convince people to switch.
You probably don't know the difference because you're only exposed to the limited features Apple included in their products, but text messaging and web-based instant messaging are two different things using completely different networks and protocols.
Normally whan a title is a question, the answer is always "nor" or at least "not proven". This is one of the rare cases when it's yes.
davecb@spamcop.net
may never die.
Amiga and BeOS users feel the same way. BB10 was better than Android or iOS in many ways like this too, particularly in integrating so many ways of communicating into a single place with Blackberry Hub.
Apple Newton, released 1993
Palm OS released 1996
WebOS released 1999
Are we going to say that Palm copied the first PDA from Apple ?
WebOS copied from PalmOS.
PalmOS copied from the Newton.
The Newton was the first PDA, so all roads eventually lead back to Apple.
You're forgetting Magic Cap and I had a Sharp, I think, PDA before that.
Break down story paragraphs like so:
WebOS was a really cool OS, that had lots of neat features and ran JavaScript apps.
WebOS was built on Linux, and if you're knowledgeable, you can update it.
WebOS had a feature that permitted the user to switch apps by swiping up from the bottom of the screen to see the backgrounded apps. (Note: Android already has a similar feature, accessed by the square icon at screen bottom)
Apple is going to do something similar, so they must be copying from WebOS, and that validates how advanced WebOS was.
If Apple were going to start supporting js apps, you might have a case, otherwise not... There are only 4 sides to the screen too, top is notifications, sides for switching desktop screens, so that only leaves the bottom...which they picked... Coincidence?
Didn't LG buy WebOS years ago?
They run it on all their smart TV's
Windows Vista and 7 also had Windows+Tab for a more flashy version of Alt-tab, which seems to be missing from Windows 8.1
Alt-Tab was in Windows 1.0. It's current form of showing the running apps you're tabbing through has been there since 3.1 way back in 1992
Windows Vista introduced showing a preview of the actual application instead of just their icons.
Windows 8 lets you swipe up from the bottom of the screen if you have a touch screen. It shows the Alt-Tab popup so you can tap on an application.
If you don't have a touch screen you can swipe up with 4 fingers on the touch pad of a laptop if it supports 4 or more fingers.
I don't have any older Windows version to test it on, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was introduced back in Vista.
Way to go Apple, you've exactly copied a Windows 8 feature!
If so I had better click on it to find out more....
I had the original Palm Treo, the Pre and Pre plus. Horrible phones. So much so, that when I worked for HP (before they dumped Palm) I missed a crucial incoming call because my phone just couldn't be made to answer. Out of sheer frustration and disgust I threw it from a moving car at 80 MPH. It skidded a little bit then flew apart in a fuzzy ball of broken bits. To this day, I fondly remember that image from my rear-view mirror. If apple picks up some of the bits of WebOS, I hope the call answer logic isn't one of them.
No.
~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
IRC (which allows private messaging) was in 1988 ICQ was in 1996. XMPP was round in 1999.
If "web-based messaging" is just normal instant messaging, it's been around a long time before WebOS (or smartphones).
My assumption is that the "integrated text and Web messaging" is referring to iMessage, which was released in 2011
OK, the only phones supporting it are Fairphones -but indeed thanks to the fashion for larger screens, their model 2 managed to be quite on par with the flock, while they designed it from scratch, and every bit inside is dismountable with a simple screwdriver (and of course you can replace the battery)
They come with Android as default, but the machine supports explicitly Sailfish and Firefox OS.
And on Sailfish, swiping from the sides is basically the main engine to reach settings and switch apps...
And, you are the device admin.
(disclaimer : I own a Fairphone 1, not the 2 alas)
Herve S.
WebOS was a blank sheet of paper new design. It was well thought out and things worked seamlessly, albeit a bit slow as they never got the chance to optimize the javascript engine. I'm still using a WebOS phone daily thanks to the dedicated work of the homebrew community to keep apps running. Every time I have to grit my teeth and use Android or iOS I have a "if only" moment. Damn you Leo!
Honestly, it's kind of dumb that people put such a priority on coming up with completely original ideas and inventions. The history of art and science are full of borrowing ideas from somewhere else. Even great inventions are often just a tweak on an existing idea applied to a new scenario.
In something like this, the real issue isn't whether the idea is completely original, but whether the execution and implementation is good. When I'm using my phone, I just don't need the GUI to be completely unprecedented. It's fine with me if it's a completely unoriginal rip-off of previous UI conventions. I want it to be intuitive, easy to use, and not-at-all frustrating.
Does swiping away an app stop all playing media?
Yes, it does.
And from personal experience developing iOS apps, it also kills off background tasks - even repeated ones you had set up like background location notifications.
There are multiple ways on iOS you know an app is potentially running in the background. You can see it in the app switcher. But also you can see it in places like the battery usage part of Settings, which distinguishes between foregrounded time and background time. Also in Location privacy, where you can see what apps are getting background location updates (and in IOS 11 you can force any app to not be able to get background location updates if you choose).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Magic Cap (from General magic) was created by the original Mac engineers. The project started in Apple and was spun out as a separate company with Apple as the primary investor. Although Apple had an interest in General Magic, they started a new project in-house that produced the Newton.
General Magic was the Xerox PARC of tablet research. People worked on lots of cool ideas and many of the engineers went on to design future products and/or found new companies. It was an amazing place.
His posts are all here for you to read. No one is bitter. At best, we're tremendously amused, at worst we're annoyed at the fucker.
The previous poster is correct. This six-month campaign to run me off of Slashdot has failed miserably. That have made you bitter. It's time for you to move on to Reddit.
I'm the guy who signed up the "cdreimer" account.
Uh, no.
You have a simple tell: whenever you're rattled, your grammar starts falling apart.
Misplaced hyphens, dropping words, and using wrong variations of words means... I'm fucking with you, my nasty little troll.
One of the "much too early for its time" ideas of WebOS was precisely its dependency on JavaScript/CSS/HTML for application development.
Writing a UI with it was (and is) fine ... but having to write your entire application in JavaScript -- this glorious idea alone caused otherwise decent hardware to be about as powerful as a 286* as soon as you needed to push some heavier math operations (say, for de-/compression).
For the first year of WebOS's lifecycle, only a select few developers were permitted to write native applications. Everyone else had to use Mojo -- which restricted you to JS/CSS/HTML.
It also made interacting with the screen beyond the level of HTML virtually impossible. I should know, I created an eBook reader that was downloaded over 100k times. And let me tell you: It was a gruelling task!
Even once WebOS allowed native C/C++, the call overhead between the HTML UI and the C/C++ backend was so ludicrously high (>20ms per callback) that it was close to useless, unless you abandoned the UI framework entirely and wrote everything from scratch and in OpenGL.
That fact alone was already enough to doom the platform to obsolescence.
[*] - Of course, that was before the Google V8 engine hit the market and before asm.js and node.js were available, but still... even nowadays I would dread writing heavy-lifting code in pure JS.
You're confusing me with someone else.
So all those horrible ebooks you wrote years ago with the same errors ... were designed to "fuck with" people in the future?
Only on Slashdot.
That's not an OS feature. That's a hardware feature.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
FUCK PALM. If you watch the intro video for the Palm Pre, it is FUCKING DISGUSTING. Yeah, they came up with a couple new things in webOS, but 99% of it was a total rip-off of iOS. The first thing Palm demoed was scrolling a contacts list -- with inertia, and with rubber-banding at the end. https://youtu.be/Dw3cHOEnwTw?t...
That was in January 2009. "Tabs" in Safari in iOS ("iPhone OS" at the time) were treated like cards from Day 1. Literally, Day 1. Here's the feature being shown in the iPhone intro video from January 2007.
https://youtu.be/P-a_R6ewrmM?t...
So wow, Palm managed to introduce card-based app switching a mere TWO YEARS after Apple introduced card-based tab switching. What a staggering innovation. Quite a team of inventors they had over there.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Why yes, yes they do! Most of the Palm team came from Neuton, which Apple started in the 90's. So who copied who again?
I was a Palm Pre+ consumer & part-time app dev - loved webOS. When they folded one of the leaders wrote a nice letter to future generations regarding the wonderful creations in webOS and how he hoped those ideas would live on. As each developer at Palm took new jobs - hopefully they'd take the ideas with them.
I recall when iOS got the "double-tap" Home button that mimicked the swipe-up from webOS. How refreshing it was to switch apps more easily (and later added the flick-up "terminate" feature too).
Even the swipe down and "universal search" made it into iPhone -- and I hear Android. I am hopeful that iOS will someday have a truly "universal search" feature. Although the physical keyboard made it easier to use ("just start typing"). I also liked that webOS treated many things (such as email, calendar, address) as a datasource that flowed through a common component.
Palm had: Single addressbook (multi-source), wireless charging, unique UX. I think I still have the phone and touch-charging station in box somewhere - I thought of it as historical in what it achieved.