China Builds World's Largest EV Charging Network With 167,000 Stations (247wallst.com)

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China Builds World's Largest EV Charging Network With 167,000 Stations (247wallst.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on Saturday September 9, 2017 @06:50AM from the charging-ahead dept.

"It soon will become easier to charge a Chevy Bolt or Tesla in China," reports 24/7 Wall Street, citing reports from China's official newspaper that they've built the highest number of electric-car charging facilities in the world, offering "the broadest coverage, and the most advanced technology." AmiMoJo quotes their announcement: A total of 167,000 charging piles have now been connected to the telematics platform of the State Grid Corporation of China, making it the world's largest electric vehicle (EV) charging network. By cooperating with 17 charging station operators, the SGCC now offers more than 1 million kilowatt-hours of power each day.
24/7 Wall Street says the ambitious (and government-subsidized) plan "is bound to help electronic car adoption since most vehicles in the category have ranges well under 300 miles."

103 comments

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But ... by Entropius · 2017-09-09 06:53 · Score: 1

... I thought climate change was a Chinese hoax?
1. Re:But ... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 06:58 · Score: 0
  
  Do you believe the people who lie to you?
2. Re:But ... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 07:03 · Score: 0
  
  ... I thought climate change was a Chinese hoax?
  Maybe these (presumably fake) charging stations are part of the hoax.
3. Re:But ... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 07:04 · Score: 1
  
  Pollution contol needs to happen in a society developing so fast.
  Nothing to do with that AGw extremist nonsense.
4. Re: But ... by PoopJuggler · 2017-09-09 07:26 · Score: 0
  
  Pollution control needs to happen everywhere. Deniers like you will be the death of the planet.
5. Re:But ... by Rei · 2017-09-09 07:30 · Score: 1
  
  I only trust a very limited subset of individuals. Thankfully, my trust will be rewarded when the space ship arrives.
  
  --
  "Casual hello, it's me, Zoidberg, act naturally."
6. Re: But ... by jedidiah · 2017-09-09 08:03 · Score: 1
  
  > Pollution control needs to happen everywhere. Deniers like you will be the death of the planet.
  Why would they if you're doing your part and not just leaving it to others to solve the problem?
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
7. Re:But ... by DontBeAMoran · 2017-09-09 09:59 · Score: 1
  
  I choose to believe was I was programmed to believe!
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
8. Re:But ... by DontBeAMoran · 2017-09-09 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  Spaceship, eh?
  I follow Fox Mulder's philosophy.
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
9. Re:But ... by volodymyrbiryuk · 2017-09-10 00:00 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe after Hurricane Jose sinks Mar-a-Lago into the ocean his rethoric will change.
  
  --
  sudo rm -r -f --no-preserve-root /
China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by RhettLivingston · 2017-09-09 06:58 · Score: 5, Insightful

The strategy appears to be to lock in local producers for the bulk EV market while only letting foreign companies succeed at the high end and then to scale up quickly. Once they've achieved large scale production in the world's largest market, then they will seek to dominate the foreign markets. They will also have more of an excuse to use their own rare metals and charge higher prices to export them. Smart.
EV dominance will have side benefits in many other tech and energy spheres. It's an investment with potential similar to our Apollo investment half a century ago.
1. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by PoopJuggler · 2017-09-09 07:25 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  And the US falls further behind because of the red states and Supreme Leader Cheeto...
2. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 07:30 · Score: 0
  
  And the US falls further behind because of the red states and Supreme Leader Cheeto...
  When the only candidates that the opposition party can come up with are a vile cunt and a communist Jew, this is what you get.
3. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by CaptnCrud · 2017-09-09 07:37 · Score: 1, Redundant
  
  I think they are more interested in the control aspects rather than being green. Just of the top of my head I can think of several scenarios where going 100% fully electric vehicle would be of benefit from a control point of view for what I would call a "Captive Audience":
  1. charge stations can be turned off to isolate pockets of areas you want to keep contained/isolated.
  2. don't be surprised if the "plugs" are designed to only work with certain charge stations (i.e. theirs).
  3. individual transports can be tracked and controlled with much more accuracy
  4. anyone running "off the grid" in say a motorcycle will stick out like a sore thumb.
  5. should shit hit the fan politically the entire transportation infrastructure can be taken out with a well deployed EMP burst.
4. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by AmiMoJo · 2017-09-09 07:37 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Most of it is just due to western manufacturers falling behind.
  For example, around 80% of new busses in China are electric, and by 2020 it will be close to 100%. How many western bus manufacturers even offer serious hybrids, let alone fully electric models? Who even makes a 450kWh battery, except the Chinese?
  On the personal vehicle side, few manufacturers outside China make models that are affordable in China, or even that affordable in the west. If it wasn't for the kind of "protectionism" that people complain about the Chinese doing, i.e. safety regulations and import duty, the west would be flooded with cheap Chinese cars. They are already popular in some places, e.g. a lot of Taxi drivers in London have been buying BYD electric vehicles for a few years now.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
5. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by fluffernutter · 2017-09-09 07:39 · Score: 2
  
  The US falls further behind because anyone who participates in 'cooperation' is immediately called a communist and shunned from society.
  
  --
  Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
6. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by jedidiah · 2017-09-09 08:05 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  > The US falls further behind because anyone who participates in 'cooperation' is immediately called a communist and shunned from society.
  You are confusing "cooperation" with "mandatory participation" enforced at the barrel of a gun. Nothing is stopping YOU personally from making better choices. The truth is that American consumerism is at odds with what needs to get done here.
  It's also a lot easier to get things done when you can just boss everyone around and not have to worry about little niceties such as democracy and literacy.
  I bet their trains run on time too.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
7. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by jedidiah · 2017-09-09 08:07 · Score: 2
  
  > Who even makes a 450kWh battery, except the Chinese?
  Who makes ANYTHING these days? Where have you been exactly? THIS is why China is the most important country when it comes to pollution. The rest of the developed world has outsourced their dirty industries there.
  Actually MAKING stuff in the US is like Trumpie crazy talk.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
8. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by ShanghaiBill · 2017-09-09 08:15 · Score: 2
  
  not have to worry about little niceties such as democracy and literacy.
  I am not sure what "literacy" has to do with any of this, but China has a literacy rate of 96.4%. America's literacy rate is 97.9%. So they are not very different.
9. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 08:56 · Score: 0
  
  The reason we're falling behind is because everyone has lost their mind.
  In a Nutshell, the left prefers to idolize homosexuality, equality, womens' rights, charity at a gunpoint, environmental responsibility, and propping up their monopolies and oligopolies (big news, big information tech, big education e.g. universities and a national teachers union).
  In a Nutshell, the right prefers to idolize religion, war for profit, interfering with foreign affairs, and propping up their monopolies and oligopolies (big oil, big pharma, big 4 accounting, et-cetera).
  Nobody's focusing on giving people actual freedom to make choices. Tell the teachers unions you want your tax money back so they can hire a private tutor, they'd lose their minds. Tell Big Pharma you'd like to cancel your health insurance, now there's a fine on your income tax forms. Everyone's got a gun in your face asking for money.
  Literally, everyone has forgotten how to be a productive member of society and instead is leeching off of an increasingly smaller and smaller group of moderate people who are the real producers. That's the problem. It's not that people don't want to work hard, it's that Americans have forgotten what real, actual productive work looks like and have become accustomed to putting up with just the most absolutely un-freggin-believably ridiculous things.
  I'm very skeptical if this will work out for China given we still need to master energy storage as a technology, but I'm also very happy for them that this is something they're trying out. China is also going after building Thorium Nuclear reactors so that's a good fit for EV technology if you can master it. I hope they are successful and wish them good luck on their journey.
10. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 09:08 · Score: 0
  
  I think they are more interested in the control aspects rather than being green.
  so you pay no attention to the pollution reports from china?
11. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by thinkwaitfast · 2017-09-09 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  Communism is legal in the US. There are many communes that anyone can legally join. The converse is not true under communism.
12. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by DontBeAMoran · 2017-09-09 10:03 · Score: 1
  
  They will also have more of an excuse to use their own rare metals and charge higher prices to export them. Smart.
  They can't. Smart is a German automotive marque and division of Daimler AG, based in Böblingen, Germany.
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
13. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by DontBeAMoran · 2017-09-09 10:04 · Score: 1
  
  And 96.4 divided by 97.9 multiplied by 1000 equals 984.6%, so my country of Canuckistan clearly has better math classes than both!
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
14. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by RhettLivingston · 2017-09-09 10:59 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  It is a travesty that we miss so many low-flying opportunities. For example, the US school bus fleet is huge and generally terminal based. They almost never refuel anywhere but at their terminal. There would be zero need for refueling stations away from the terminals for the vast majority of school buses. They should be well on their way to being fully electric already.
15. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 11:02 · Score: 0
  
  US electorate so easily swayed by Russian propaganda that they choose the stupidest, least experienced choice. Laughingstock of the world, the dumb cunts.
16. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 11:48 · Score: 1
  
  Ask people prosecuted in the McCarthy era how legal communism was in the US for them.
17. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by AmiMoJo · 2017-09-09 12:27 · Score: 1
  
  Panasonic and Tesla have build the one of the largest battery factories in the world in the US. You guys could make bus batteries if you wanted to...
  In fact, maybe Panasonic/Tesla are making them, for their new truck model.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
18. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Applehu+Akbar · 2017-09-09 13:06 · Score: 1
  
  And the US falls further behind because of the red states...
  Because in California and other blue states it's so easy to mine rare earth metals and build energy infrastructure without every single project being bullied to a halt by the People's Deep Earth Resistance?
19. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by haruchai · 2017-09-09 13:20 · Score: 2
  
  And the US falls further behind because of the red states and Supreme Leader Cheeto...
  When the only candidates that the opposition party can come up with are a vile cunt and a communist Jew, this is what you get.
  Either of those would have been a more sensible choice than Trump. Serves me right for thinking no Republican dumber than Dubya would ever get into high office. Then Texas elected Rick Perry & the GOP base coalesced around Trump over 20 other candidates and they & every senior Republican proceeded to go full hypocrite on their supposed principles.
  
  --
  Pain is merely failure leaving the body
20. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 13:25 · Score: 0
  
  Football is more important than academics in US schools because it is what brings money into the school system. Those school buses are used to transport school football teams to away games, which in some places is 100 miles away. Therefore, school buses do not have enough range unless the home team also has charging stations.
21. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by skam240 · 2017-09-09 15:22 · Score: 1
  
  What a bizarrely stupid thing to say.
  Of course some one can surrender one's liberties entering a commune (although sometimes said surrendering is illegal). That's a dumb comparison though. The American Left is less communist than the American Right is pro anarchist, which is to say our Left is a loooong way from communism in terms of size of government, especially when you put it in a global context.
  In terms of American politics, communism is a boogeyman the Right likes to use to keep their base in line. The communist party in this country is a few thousand people strong, only the pathetically naive believe that communism is some how a modern threat.
  
  --
  I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
22. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by drinkypoo · 2017-09-09 16:39 · Score: 2
  
  Those school buses are used to transport school football teams to away games, which in some places is 100 miles away.
  School districts big enough to have lots of buses still don't have electric buses though, even though they only need a handful of buses capable of going on long trips. However, this is probably because such vehicles are expensive, and not because they wouldn't like to have them.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
23. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by RhettLivingston · 2017-09-09 17:37 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  You're right, the football teams get the money. That's why they charter real buses these days instead of taking the school buses. In fact, I've seen many cases in which they've done so because people complained about the school's resources being used for team travel.
24. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by blindseer · 2017-09-09 18:06 · Score: 2
  
  I think that's a really bad idea and I'll tell you why. I live in a fairly rural part of the USA. When I was riding a school bus to school it would be a 40 minute ride all over the county. There were probably a dozen or so school buses for the school. How large of a battery would this bus need to run this route? How much would that cost? What kind of infrastructure would the school need to recharge those batteries? If you're going to recharge all those buses, and it takes hours for them to charge, then each bus will need a charger at a non-trivial expense.
  I don't know how many miles the routes were for the buses. If my route was typical at 40 minutes, and the bus averaged 20 miles per hour, then that's just 80 miles from first stop (the school) to the last (my house). Then there's a few more miles for getting to and from the terminal, add some reserve, and it needs a range of perhaps 100 miles or so, as a rough estimate. It has to do this five days a week, 30+ weeks each year. That's got to be rough on any battery.
  I recall hearing on the radio last summer that the local schools would be staggering their school days so that they could share buses and drivers. So instead of running just two routes per day (morning and afternoon), they'd run four or six. How many miles is that now? How big would that battery have to be?
  Then there is the problem of winter. Even though they had a very large diesel engine to derive heat from the buses were often quite cold. How is an electric school bus going to keep the children warm when it's below freezing outside? We'd still have school on days when it's 40 below zero, below that they usually called a "snow day" since it wasn't safe for the children and hard on the buses.
  Then there is just the matter that school buses are already very expensive and therefore must be used for a very long time to justify the expense, usually about 10 years. How long will an electric bus last? Until they've been proven for at least one life cycle I don't expect schools to adopt them in any significant numbers. Which then gets us into a catch-22, no one is going to adopt them until someone else does first. The company that wants in this market will have to give the first ones away, or even pay a school to take them.
  
  --
  I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
25. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by DNS-and-BIND · 2017-09-09 18:21 · Score: 1
  
  Turns out, advocating for the violent overthrow of the elected US government and its replacement with a Communist dictatorship is illegal. Whoda thunk it?
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
26. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by DNS-and-BIND · 2017-09-09 18:24 · Score: 1
  
  That's pretty insightful. I didn't think about shutting off all the recharge stations in an area experiencing anti-government protests, but that's a good idea. China has already cut off access to Alipay online payments for trivial issues. Without cash, you'd be helpless.
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
27. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by DNS-and-BIND · 2017-09-09 18:28 · Score: 1
  
  That's pretty insightful. I didn't think about shutting off all the recharge stations in an area experiencing anti-government protests, but that's a good idea. China has already cut off access to Alipay online payments for trivial issues. Without cash, you'd be helpless. Same thing without recharge stations for electric vehicles.
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
28. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by DNS-and-BIND · 2017-09-09 18:31 · Score: 1
  
  Any new bus battery factory would be vehemently opposed by environmentalists whose goal would be to harass, file frivolous lawsuits, and generally make the whole thing too expensive and too much trouble. The loser is America, but since the entire concept of "America" is problematic, I don't think it's going to change.
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
29. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by blindseer · 2017-09-09 18:33 · Score: 1
  
  Ah yes, People's Deep Earth Resistance. Not to be confused with the Deep Earth Resistance for the Planet, or DERP.
  Splitters!!
  
  --
  I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
30. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by blindseer · 2017-09-09 18:43 · Score: 1
  
  This just goes to show why Americans might be reluctant to rely on electric vehicles for their primary transportation.
  It's trivial to buy a few jerrycans to keep some spare fuel on hand in case of an emergency, like... I don't know, a hurricane perhaps. It doesn't take government intervention to shut down an electric recharge station but that's just one of many reasons that might cause it.
  People might say such things don't happen very often but it only takes one case to make an example for so many more.
  
  --
  I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
31. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 19:30 · Score: 0
  
  thats cuz school board frequently have the lowest budgets .... what school buses need to be is cheap, not 100 million upfront investment for longterm payoff........... if people thought this way, the schoolboard would simply own school bus producing factories, but again no $$$ for such expenditures captcha: forego
32. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by pots · 2017-09-09 20:22 · Score: 1
  
  There's no need for Machiavellian scheming, China has a massive pollution problem and their economic development requires large-scale investment in projects much like this one. This is a better use of funds than manufacturing ghost-towns, and they know it, so they do it.
33. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by AmiMoJo · 2017-09-09 20:25 · Score: 1
  
  So where were these people when Tesla built its factory?
  Your imaginary foes cloud your judgement.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
34. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by thegarbz · 2017-09-09 20:37 · Score: 1
  
  I think that's a really bad idea and I'll tell you why. I found a small situation not representative of the entire scenario that isn't low hanging fruit and therefore the entire project is a bad idea
  
  Did I quote you correctly?
35. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by thegarbz · 2017-09-09 20:46 · Score: 2
  
  Most of it is just due to western manufacturers falling behind.
  This indeed! We're starting to see electric buses deployed where I live. The company? BYD. Lovely quiet Chinese electric busses. There's even two BYD cars outside my building. I think the guys on the floor above us work for them.
  Private fleets are going electric too. Schipol airport in Amsterdam has an electric bus fleet ... BYD again. Sydney has an electric bus fleet ... BYD. Brisbane Australia is getting an electric bus fleet too, Toro but apparently that's a joint venture with BYD.
  The Chinese are eating the west's lunch and gaining a serious first mover advantage here while Volvo, MAN, etc are resting on their laurels.
36. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Hognoxious · 2017-09-09 22:21 · Score: 1
  
  Such a thing is totally unAmerican. Remember, as Yogi Berra said, the business of America is business.
  You're supposed to buy the government.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
37. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Hognoxious · 2017-09-09 22:31 · Score: 2
  
  If it wasn't for the kind of "protectionism" that people complain about the Chinese doing, i.e. safety regulations and import duty
  
  Right, because those are the only kinds of protectionism the Chinese engage in. And they should be allowed to call powdered plastic milk if they want, because it's part of their tradition or something.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
38. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Hognoxious · 2017-09-09 22:34 · Score: 1
  
  There were probably a dozen or so school buses for the school.
  
  We only had six. Mind you, ours were the long kind.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
39. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by oobayly · 2017-09-09 22:37 · Score: 1
  
  So where were these people when Tesla built its factory?
  In the same place as those gangs of marauding youths a colleague envisaged ripping out cables from charging cars and destroying all the charge points that will have to be installed along all the streets...
40. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by oobayly · 2017-09-09 22:53 · Score: 2
  
  Not that I'm really disagreeing with you - rural areas are a massive obstacle when it comes to electric vehicles (and public spending is another obstacle) - but to nit pick some of your numbers. 80 miles isn't a out of the question for a vehicle with lots of battery space nowadays (add 50% to get 120 miles as the route is circular). Also you only get to travel 13 miles at 20mph over 40 minutes. Either your school trip took 4 hours, your bus travelled at an average of 120mph, or you lived a lot closer to school than you thought!
41. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 22:55 · Score: 1
  
  When your country is at war with more nations and for such a long time that your own parents may not have know a time without it, then what exactly is the travesty again??
42. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by LynnwoodRooster · 2017-09-10 04:25 · Score: 1
  
  Most of China's pollution problem comes from non-vehicular sources. Making electric cars isn't going to solve that... Heck, half of Beijing's famous smog problem is because of the 'Yellow Dust' that blows over from Mongolia, coming out of the deserts just 100 km West of Beijing.
  
  --
  Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
43. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by LynnwoodRooster · 2017-09-10 04:27 · Score: 1
  
  China already makes about 60% of ALL lithium batteries in the world; sure, Musk (electrons be unto His name) is hyping the West with a big factory, but in terms of output? He'll be way down the list. One big facility versus dozens of nearly-as-big facilities - I know which one is a better, safer, more economical supply chain!
  
  --
  Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
44. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by LynnwoodRooster · 2017-09-10 04:31 · Score: 1
  
  Right here, saying it was terrible that Musk (electrons be unto His name) chose Nevada over California because he would bypass the onerous and stifling regulatory world of California. I can provide a few dozen other links to both right and left groups that opposed the financial giveaways and the environmental damage that the gigafactory represented to these groups...
  
  --
  Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
45. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by LynnwoodRooster · 2017-09-10 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  When mom has a Pacer, a 12 passenger van is a long kind of bus...
  
  --
  Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
46. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-10 09:26 · Score: 0
  
  Most of China's pollution problem comes from non-vehicular sources. Making electric cars isn't going to solve that.
  Are you one of those people who reject a pretty good solution because it's not perfect? Do you refuse to eat a healthy diet because it won't prevent all diseases?
  Electric cars won't stop all pollution of the air, but they will stop a lot -- especially when vehicular usage really gets going in China. Electric cars are a good start.
  "The longest journey begins with a single step." -- Lao Tze
47. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by blindseer · 2017-09-10 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  Note to self, don't try to do math while sleep deprived.
  
  --
  I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
48. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by blindseer · 2017-09-10 10:34 · Score: 1
  
  Did I quote you correctly?
  No. Even in an urban setting the buses will need to travel a non-trivial distance, at speeds that keep up with traffic (perhaps not highway speed but 35 to 45 mph would not be unheard of), carrying a non-trivial number of people, and do this many times per day, for many days in a row, and do so with a cost the same or lower than current buses. This is not a trivial problem to solve, technologically (yet) or economically (yet).
  Schools won't bus children if they live within a mile or so, they consider that a walking distance. Schools won't bus outside of a certain range either, usually the edges of the school district. Add in that many urban schools simply do not offer busing, they expect children to take public transportation, or parents pick them up, or just generally declare it not their problem. As there are government mandates on children getting to schools the schools may make arrangements with public transportation and/or a private school bus service so I'm not saying that school buses in urban areas are non-existent, only not nearly as needed as they were just a few years ago.
  School buses are primarily for rural school districts. How can I say this? Look at some data.
  http://files.schoolbusfleet.co...
  I compared California to Michigan, Minnesota, and Missouri. Why those states? Because they are rural, have a winter (Midwest vs. west coast), and happened to be close together when listed alphabetically. Those three states combined have a population roughly half that of California but nearly twice as many school buses.
  Even if you add in more urban states like New York and Illinois, where public transportation may take a lot of children to and from school instead of a school bus, they also have to deal with winters, and heating is always a problem with electric vehicles.
  I'm sure as above I screwed up my math, so I welcome anyone to check my numbers.
  
  --
  I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
49. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by LynnwoodRooster · 2017-09-10 11:00 · Score: 1
  
  Nope. I am a realist that realizes putting big efforts into 5% of the problem tends to allow a person to overlook 95% of the problem. You want to address China's pollution problem? Start with industrial waste and burning of coal - that will address 95% of it right there. But since it's "sexy" to talk about electric cars in the US and "Big Oil" is evil, we will all talk about electrifying cars and commend the Chinese for using an eyedropper on the candle in the room and ignore the inferno all around them...
  
  --
  Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
50. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by RespekMyAthorati · 2017-09-10 12:50 · Score: 1
  
  You're repeating yourself.
51. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by PoopJuggler · 2017-09-10 15:08 · Score: 1
  
  How do you know they're not working on the other 95%? All endeavors that are beneficial to the planet should be applauded, no matter how small. Just the fact that China is even starting to acknowledge and address these issues is a positive thing.
52. Re: China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Gussington · 2017-09-10 20:22 · Score: 1
  
  It's also a lot easier to get things done when you can just boss everyone around and not have to worry about little niceties such as democracy and literacy.
  It just so happens that literacy is also one of the things they want done. So they have that, on-time trains, and superior EV charging networks, but sure they don't get to shoot up your kids at school, so that's a point off...
53. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Gussington · 2017-09-10 22:01 · Score: 1
  
  Those school buses are used to transport school football teams to away games, which in some places is 100 miles away.
  So here's a novel idea, outsource the bus fleet to professional bus companies.
  The bus company will own many different types of buses for various use cases of their customers. For city based short runs they'll have an electric fleet, for longer trips a fossil fuel version. For small loads they have minibuses, for large they have a full sized coach.
  It's not a technical problem, it's all politics.
54. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by thegarbz · 2017-09-10 23:43 · Score: 1
  
  Did I quote you correctly?
  No. Even in an urban setting the buses will need to travel a non-trivial distance, at speeds that keep up with traffic (perhaps not highway speed but 35 to 45 mph would not be unheard of), carrying a non-trivial number of people, and do this many times per day, for many days in a row, and do so with a cost the same or lower than current buses. This is not a trivial problem to solve, technologically (yet) or economically (yet).
  Given all electric buses and taxis exist and are in use, and you just moved the goalposts away from a simplified ideal scenario to incorporate yet more stuff not relevant to a conversation, I suggest instead of writing length posts which cause people to tune out after the first 3 incorrect statements, take a debating class.
55. Re:China appears to be shooting for EV dominance by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-11 00:01 · Score: 0
  
  bzzt. Wont work.
  Lowest bidder.
  You'll get transport. It'll be barely legal, it'll break down often. It will be buses at the end of their lifespan.
  Exactly what happened in the UK.
AmiMoJo by 110010001000 · 2017-09-09 07:07 · Score: 1

I know that guy. He is famous.
But it is what is known as DIRTY power by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 07:41 · Score: 0

because of all that coal, and it will not be good for batteries from the west.
Things and d-things by d-t oberload! WTF? by Hognoxious · 2017-09-09 07:41 · Score: 1

1 million kilowatt-hours of power each day.
My head asplode.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
taxes by umghhh · 2017-09-09 07:51 · Score: 1

the roads are most of the time paid by taxes. These taxes are usually taken with the fuel sales. There are ways to get this done with electrical vehicles. It has to be done. Or else I would expect ICS users to go to courts to get their rights respected. But I guess tax men everywhere will get a feeling for it soon enough. SO with electric vehicles will come possibly some sort of road metering. The most likely way is gps plus some onboard device that reports to taxman what is due. I wonder how the Chinese resolve the problem.
1. Re:taxes by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 08:01 · Score: 1
  
  Road use tax on charging stations.
  Over thinking is the root of all evil.
2. Re:taxes by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 08:08 · Score: 0
  
  You don't need GPS, or a taxman.
  cents/gallon...check
  cents/kilowatt hour...check
  put half the money in a politicians pocket...check
  build/maintain roads with the rest.
3. Re:taxes by richrz · 2017-09-09 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  Everyone uses the roads because everything you buy or use has been transported a minimum of 3 times on public roads. Accepting special case taxes only helps politicians...as we fight to lower the gas taxes we can't accept the premise to begin with that the government should have special taxes above and beyond the normal sales tax.
4. Re: taxes by BLToday · 2017-09-09 09:19 · Score: 1
  
  The Chinese solve the road tax issue by having tolls every 10 miles or so on the freeway. Between Tianjin and Beijing, I must have stopped at least 5 times for toll
5. Re:taxes by blindseer · 2017-09-09 18:53 · Score: 1
  
  GPS to track mileage? WTF? Why not just use the already existing, and government mandated, odometer?
  A politician that mentions the need to put GPS in a car to accurately measure miles traveled for taxes is either so out of touch of how the world works that they don't know about odometers, or want to use the GPS to track more than just miles traveled.
  
  --
  I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
6. Re:taxes by umghhh · 2017-09-20 06:00 · Score: 1
  
  Because while they are at it they will get different tariffs per time of the day and year as well as per area. OC there are other ways to fix it w/o gps.
Great by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 08:19 · Score: 0

Now do this 10 more times and EVs ight become and attractive choice.
The math does not work by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 08:37 · Score: 0

1M KWH with 167,000 "piles" (presumably places to plug a car into) is 6 KWH per charger per day. Some of the numbers have to be wrong as this means an average of 1/5th of a Leaf or 1/12th of a Tesla per day.
1. Re:The math does not work by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 09:48 · Score: 0
  
  It's metric, so factoring is by 100x, and that is multiplied by the 1000 so you are off by a factor of one million. Make it to school much?
2. Re:The math does not work by RhettLivingston · 2017-09-09 10:22 · Score: 2
  
  I was just noticing the same thing. There are a lot of suspicious aspects of the original article. The direction I was coming at it was to consider how many 50 kWH charges you could deliver (assuming that people aren't always on empty when they charge) - 20,000. So, on any given day, only 1/8th or so of the stations would be getting used even once.
  That got me looking for the original article which I think may be this one.
  It appears that around 40,000 of the claimed 167000 are SGCC's piles. The others are from the 17 cooperating station operators. In any case, this is enough to make me think that they are talking real stations and not counting stations people have installed at home which was my initial suspicion.
  The only explanations I can think of are that the numbers are wrong or the numbers are correct and the stations are there for the rare circumstance where someone is using an EV to travel between cities or didn't get a full charge at home.
  My guess is that the latter is true. China has new EV sales of more than 40,000 vehicles per month and they have to be getting charged somewhere. That somewhere is likely at home with travel contained to the city.
  This is a population that was almost exclusively riding bikes a couple of decades ago. They likely still organize themselves in a fashion that puts them a bike ride away from everything they do.
3. Re:The math does not work by skam240 · 2017-09-09 15:32 · Score: 1
  
  What a bizarrely data free assumption. I would imagine that as half a billion people enter the middle class that having a car would become a status symbol much like it both became and still currently is in this country. What on earth would bike riding numbers have to do with that?
  
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4. Re:The math does not work by RhettLivingston · 2017-09-09 15:46 · Score: 1
  
  A habit of not having a mobile society that is millennia long does not get changed in decades by the introduction of vehicles. It can take generations for the thought of living 50 miles from your work as many in America to not seem stupid. It's not about ability, it's about culture and culture has deep roots.
5. Re:The math does not work by RhettLivingston · 2017-09-09 15:53 · Score: 1
  
  I should have also said that I fully expect them all to have cars, just not to quickly transform the general structure of their cities so that their home is so far from work and shopping that they will actually have to drive those cars further than the distance that an overnight charge at home will take them on the vast majority of their days.
  Even in America, we will not need to replace all of our gas stations with electric stations. Most charging will be done at home. We will only need enough stations to allow for the few that need to recharge at some point away from home.
  I drive around 15K miles per year, but the last time I drove more than 100 miles in a day was just before Thanksgiving of last year.
6. Re:The math does not work by skam240 · 2017-09-09 16:12 · Score: 1
  
  Funny, the west changed awfully quickly when the car was invented and that was brand new tech. Are you suggesting that Asians are some how backwoods savages that despite the fact that they can now afford cars will resort to old ways?
  
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7. Re:The math does not work by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 16:15 · Score: 0
  
  It can take generations for the thought of living 50 miles from your work as many in America to not seem stupid.
  Wow. Just wow.
  Do you realize that so many Chinese left there homes to find work, going over a thousand miles away, that every year, it is almost a national crisis to handle the all those workers visiting home during Chinese New Year in spring?
  The high speed rail network in China is, since years ago, the largest such network in the world. They have been talking about "3-hour living circle" (very rough translation), where people are expected to easily go where the train can reach in 3 hours. At 300km/h, 3 hours is 900km away. They easily cross provinces over the weekend for sight-seeing and having fun.
  Just a 1/2 hour train commute can take one to work 150km (>100 miles) away.
  Where do you get propaganda? The only thing that seemed to have deep roots is the propaganda that you had swallowed, which is like 200 years outdated.
8. Re:The math does not work by RhettLivingston · 2017-09-09 17:30 · Score: 1
  
  The volume carried by these trains is a trickle relative to their population. And trips taken once or twice a year do not dictate needs for charging stations when a working train system exists. My point was that if you look at the total times they would use a charging station away from home as a portion of their charges, it will likely be very small. There have been many studies showing that the same would even be true in our country.
  We have not yet adjusted our thinking to the idea that almost everyone can have their own equivalent to a gas pump at home when we change to EVs. This greatly changes the need to charge away from home.
  In the past year, if I had had a 200 mile range EV, I would have required 6 charges away from home that would have occurred on one trip. If I lived in a place with a good train network, I likely wouldn't have required that because I wouldn't have drove.
9. Re:The math does not work by blindseer · 2017-09-09 19:00 · Score: 1
  
  I believe that you are assuming the people that own these cars have a consistent place to park, and the ability to put in a charger. For example, a person that lives in a rental property may not have an assigned parking spot. Living in a rental would also likely mean being unable to wire in a charger.
  Even someone that owns their home, and has a place to park, might not be able to put in a charger at home. For example an older house may not have the electrical capacity to add a car charger safely.
  
  --
  I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
10. Re:The math does not work by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-10 01:10 · Score: 0
  
  A lot of homes wouldn't have been built with charging stations in mind. Or even car parks. So a lot of people will charge their car at work or while shopping etc.
  If you saw how fast Chinese cities are expanding, you would have to be idiotic to think the Chinese people wouldn't want to travel to the newer/better places for school/work/entertainment.
China Doing what America Can't by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 09:00 · Score: 1

I never thought China would end up being the environmental revolutionary of the world. Thanks to China's blend of Communism and Socialism, China can do with the stroke of a pen what greedy capitalist societies like the US could never accomplish.
1. Re:China Doing what America Can't by RhettLivingston · 2017-09-09 11:23 · Score: 2
  
  It is not good to think of China as communist when thinking about world trade and management matters.
  At the national level, perhaps China is the ultimate capitalist competitor. They act in the self-interest of the nation of China - not in a communist-like belief that all of the nations of the world should be equal.
  When you view nations as actors instead of people, there is zero communism in the way China trades as an entity. The international market is capitalist and China enjoys a greater ability to decisively manage their participation in that market because they are acting more cohesively internally. This leads to the ability to be more ruthless seekers of profits externally.
2. Re:China Doing what America Can't by drinkypoo · 2017-09-09 16:43 · Score: 2
  
  China has been letting more capitalism into their internal system anyway. They're growing their upper class, and beginning to create a sizable middle class — only a small percentage of their population has to improve their lot to create a large number of consumers. And relevantly, their auto industry is finally getting to the point where they can design and build a car that someone might want to drive without a ton of help from outsiders.
  
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China will often build world biggest stuff by aglider · 2017-09-09 09:07 · Score: 1

Can you guess why?

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1 million kilowatt-hours of power by thinkwaitfast · 2017-09-09 09:23 · Score: 4, Interesting

Is the equivalent of 12-40 large fuel trucks depending on how you count efficiency. @121MJ/L
Re:Things and d-things by d-t oberload! WTF? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 14:06 · Score: 0

My head asplode.
Is there a label on it that says "Made in China"?
The numbers don't add up. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-09 17:58 · Score: 0

One million kWh per day charging from 167,000 stations. That's 6 kWh per station. 1 kWh runs an ev for 3-4 miles. Each station would be charging EVs for a total of 18-24 total miles. That's like 1 EV per station per day (not even). So this is counting home chargers, not any kind of commercial charging station?
lol by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-10 00:54 · Score: 0

Yes a motorcycle in China will stick out like a sore thumb...
Have you even seen a picture of China?
Re:Things and d-things by d-t oberload! WTF? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-10 01:02 · Score: 0

Not anymore.
And the USA paid for it by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-10 01:57 · Score: 0

Thank you Walmart shoppers
1. Re: And the USA paid for it by PoopJuggler · 2017-09-10 15:11 · Score: 1
  
  The irony is that the people who shop at Walmart are the same people who hate immigrants because they send their paychecks home.
Re:Things and d-things by d-t oberload! WTF? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-10 02:58 · Score: 0

Mine as well.
I thought the entire point of the metric system and SI prefixes was to get rid of this stupidity.
gigawatt hours
There. I said it. It should've been said in the article and/or summary, though.
Re:Things and d-things by d-t oberload! WTF? by LynnwoodRooster · 2017-09-10 04:33 · Score: 1

Standard units, dammit! How many libraries of Congress would that light, and how many football fields of solar panels would it take?

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