Oracle Announces Java SE 9 and Java EE 8 (oracle.com)

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Oracle Announces Java SE 9 and Java EE 8 (oracle.com)

Posted by msmash on Friday September 22, 2017 @08:40AM from the dispatch dept.

rastos1 writes: Oracle has announced the general availability of Java SE 9 (JDK 9), Java Platform Enterprise Edition 8 (Java EE 8) and the Java EE 8 Software Development Kit (SDK). JDK 9 is a production-ready implementation of the Java SE 9 Platform Specification, which was recently approved together with Java EE 8 in the Java Community Process (JCP). Java SE 9 provides more than 150 new features, including a new module system and improvements that bring more scalability, improved security, better performance management and easier development to the world's most popular programming platform.

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Maybe most popular... by TWX · 2017-09-22 08:45 · Score: 3, Insightful

...but the way Oracle runs it, probably getting to be most-hated and most-abandoned too. At some point most-abandoned will cross with most popular and it won't be most popular anymore.

--
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
1. Re:Maybe most popular... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-22 09:02 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Well, I think Oracle is doing right in regard to Java. Even better than Sun did in the years prior to its acquisition. I know it's cool to criticize Oracle no matter what they do but... facts, please.
2. Re:Maybe most popular... by jellomizer · 2017-09-22 09:20 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  When faced to make an "Enterprise Level Product" and you have to pick a Language to code it in, you have few choices that will get past the execs.
  You have .NET, Java, C/C++ The other languages out there from Node.JS, Python, Ruby, PHP, Rust... Either do not have "Enterprise Support" (whatever that means) and in general these lanagues the Execs never heard of them before and really don't want a lecture to explain it to them.
  Then these big name languages have fancy IDE interlaces that can make frameworks from UML graphics and a bunch of crazy expensive addons that allow the sales men who such executives trust more then their own staff .
  So with all this You have .NET which is Java only for Windows. Then you have C/C++ which often will take a lot more effort to build, and there is a heck of a lot of testing needed for every new platform.
  So Java unfortunately is still a good choice with the restrictions of the corporate environment.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
3. Re:Maybe most popular... by lactose99 · 2017-09-22 09:45 · Score: 1
  
  I just installed it
  on a related note I have to punch myself in the balls just to get it up
  
  --
  Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
4. Re:Maybe most popular... by Billly+Gates · 2017-09-22 10:08 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah but the buzzwords of ROR, Node.js, and Rust are CIO compliant.
  
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  http://saveie6.com/
5. Re:Maybe most popular... by jellomizer · 2017-09-22 10:16 · Score: 1
  
  Except they may be too new for them to use. We have the Execs who were Web Designers during the 1990's Dot Com boom. Who had learned the new software is often stuff that is the most unreliable. Granted many of the newer languages have more safeguards but they don't know that.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
6. Re: Maybe most popular... by jellomizer · 2017-09-22 10:34 · Score: 1
  
  You call up the company, that you are paying thousands of dollars a month, and put it on the possible wishlist for the next version which you will need to pay for the future upgrade.
  Or you open a ticket and the vendor sends you a link to the stackoverlow site. (i Had that happen before too)
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
7. Re:Maybe most popular... by The+MAZZTer · 2017-09-22 10:41 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  .NET Core, which is pretty much .NET remade to be cross-platform, is also for Mac OS/Linux too now. And I won't be surprised if platform support increases in the future though I don't think they've announced any plans for that yet.
8. Re:Maybe most popular... by MightyMartian · 2017-09-22 11:19 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  When you're taliking about Java, you're talking about financial institutions and other really large corporations. They build applications they intend to use for decades. That's where Java is king, and it has 20 years worth of toolkits for that purpose. This isn't a realm where people give a shit about the latest sexy language, and where security and reliability requirements are a helluva lot more stringent than, say, Facebook's.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
9. Re:Maybe most popular... by TWX · 2017-09-22 12:08 · Score: 2
  
  So they caught mono?
  
  --
  Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
10. Re:Maybe most popular... by colablizzard · 2017-09-22 16:59 · Score: 2
  
  The most important thing is tooling. Java has got everything checkboxed for use in Corporate Environments. You want FIPS compliant crypto? You want static code analysis? You want tools to scan usage of open source libraries? You want tool to see if your developer copy pasted code from stack overflow? Everything is a Check Yes in Java, that too most of these tools are free and reputable. The Apache and OWASP foundations literally keep Java alive. The only problematic thing is their new EOL policy for Java SE. They have effectively killed the usage of the "free" Java SE in environments with the new EOL policy. To put it simply, one will need to constantly update to the latest major version http://www.oracle.com/technetw...
11. Re:Maybe most popular... by The+Snowman · 2017-09-23 16:38 · Score: 1
  
  The way it always should have been!
  I agree. Why should Oracle (or Sun, previously) be on the hook for providing security updates to five year old versions of Java? That is a logistical nightmare - multiple branches, multiple test configurations for each, and a ton of time and effort. Java updates very rarely break backwards compatibility anymore, so users should update.
  
  --
  24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
Re:minus project valhalla :( by mccalli · 2017-09-22 08:55 · Score: 2

I never really understand posts like this. "This is the one thing that would have kept me on Java". Why? Java is a tool like any other. You use it when you should, you don't use it when you shouldn't. After decades of existing, it's quite clear it doesn't actually need the Valhalla stuff. It would be nicer with it, but this is not an existential crisis.
All 9 of us are thrilled by Billly+Gates · 2017-09-22 08:57 · Score: 3, Insightful

I will let them know.
The rest of us are stuck with Java 1.4.2, 6, and 7 due to poorly written apps using RMI to go to c:\program files(x85)\...to check version numbers and using == instead of = to run.
Or we left long ago to Ror.

--
http://saveie6.com/
1. Re:All 9 of us are thrilled by jellomizer · 2017-09-22 09:35 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  You will never escape poorly written software no matter what language it is. One of the toughest things to teach new coders out of school, is to think forward.
  These are most common arguments with New Hires.
  1. Don't hard code paths in the system. Especially if it is in code that needs to be compiled.
  2. Don't try to be too clever with condense code, There will be a requirement change and less clever code is easier to fix.
  3. Don't drop your custom library files into the compilers library folder. This will make migrating the software to an other platform more difficult.
  4. Avoid 3rd party tools and add-ons as much as possible. As they may no longer be supported in the future or work in newer products.
  5. Make sure you use code that works well on most Systems, avoid using OS particular features unless absolutely necessary. The OS Maker may choose to change or drop that feature in the next version, or we may want to change OS's in the future.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
2. Re:All 9 of us are thrilled by Billly+Gates · 2017-09-22 10:06 · Score: 1
  
  But but ... but they saved $5,000 by going offshore with that Java app!
  Meanwhile got hit by wannacry because they were forced to use an insecure version of Java in the process and spent $250,000 on a security consultant to fix it. But they saved $5,000 by offshoring.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
3. Re:All 9 of us are thrilled by jellomizer · 2017-09-22 10:13 · Score: 1
  
  You may make people happier, but you will more or less live your life doing a humdrum job.
  For the most part with these newly hired coders, once they realize why we do things the way we do, and after an update and they find their mistake that they did in protest of the old guy who seems to be stuck in his ways, actually went to bite them in the butt. Will learn their lessons, and actually be much better coders. However the problem is a lot of organizations don't keep the developers long enough to learn their lessors, and keep on dumping inexperienced code to the the next inexperienced developer compounding the problem.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
4. Re:All 9 of us are thrilled by luis_a_espinal · 2017-09-22 11:20 · Score: 1
  
  I will let them know.
  The rest of us are stuck with Java 1.4.2, 6, and 7 due to poorly written apps using RMI to go to c:\program files(x85)\...to check version numbers and using == instead of = to run.
  Or we left long ago to Ror.
  What sort of cavern do you call "work"? Being on Java 7 is not bad, not even 6 if we are pragmatic. But what you are describing is just insane. Obviously, everything I'll say is annecdotal, but I've not seen such crap in a long time. Who does Windows-dev specific work with Java?????
5. Re:All 9 of us are thrilled by Billly+Gates · 2017-09-22 12:34 · Score: 1
  
  I will let them know.
  The rest of us are stuck with Java 1.4.2, 6, and 7 due to poorly written apps using RMI to go to c:\program files(x85)\...to check version numbers and using == instead of = to run.
  Or we left long ago to Ror.
  What sort of cavern do you call "work"? Being on Java 7 is not bad, not even 6 if we are pragmatic. But what you are describing is just insane. Obviously, everything I'll say is annecdotal, but I've not seen such crap in a long time. Who does Windows-dev specific work with Java?????
  Dude I got back in I.T. doing desktop support. Every company uses ancient Java with terrible security. We can't patch it as all the code does an == and not a less than or equal (slashcode cut off my previous comment) so if a version number is too high it will throw an exception.
  One company uses Java 1.4.2. Not 1.4.1 or 1.4.3, but 1.4.2 due to this doing RMI to c:\program files (x86) and checking the path to see the JRE version instead of damn calling the method to do this! Here is the funny part which is worse. That is not the only reason it required a +10 year old version of Java. This bank applet used a security hole to function. So in essence:
  1. Went outside the sandbox to c:\program files (x86)\... to check the JRE version number
  2. Used a security exploit in RMI to call a COM+ Excel 2003 object to populate and read data
  3. Went unsecured to this popular banks website with the data to upload and download
  4. The data contained credit card numbers and bank account numbers
  5. Required an ancient version of IE with security turned off or really low!!
  This was a popular Canadian bank too. I write anti Java posts here. That incident in 2012 turned me into a Java hater as this was also after Oracle acquired it with a hostile takeover from Sun. Java is still amazing for it's time and could have been the next big thing but with weird shit and left to rot for many many years I say it is a dangerous security risk for all but enterprise closed off servers.
  You say what kind of moron would write such a horrible thing! FYI I am not a developer nor a security guy like most of you reading this, but I sure as hell knew what I saw was an abomination to say the least.
  The answer is MBA's going to cheap 3rd world countries or outsourcing H1B1 visa students with no programming experience to save a few dollars. These guys do not read slashdot and accountants do not measure technical debt or opportunity costs like an economist or statistician. If it can't be on an Excel ledger in a debit or credit then the hidden cost is invisible. So they hire the cheapest developers they can find since I.T. is a cost center which adds no business value. Meanwhile it is a security hole ready to happen!
  Thankfully the move to WIndows 7 which I was hired for forced the bank to improve it's Java software as that insecure nightmare would have trouble without a UAC prompt for obvious reasons. Sadly we crippled security to make it run to meet our deadline. I hope the bank fixed it.
  SAP and PEoplesoft also use RMI to go to c:\program files\... to check version numbers instead of a method to in order to cut costs from what I have seen at other enterprise environments.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
6. Re:All 9 of us are thrilled by Billly+Gates · 2017-09-22 12:56 · Score: 1
  
  You may make people happier, but you will more or less live your life doing a humdrum job.
  For the most part with these newly hired coders, once they realize why we do things the way we do, and after an update and they find their mistake that they did in protest of the old guy who seems to be stuck in his ways, actually went to bite them in the butt. Will learn their lessons, and actually be much better coders. However the problem is a lot of organizations don't keep the developers long enough to learn their lessors, and keep on dumping inexperienced code to the the next inexperienced developer compounding the problem.
  And with a nice developer job you can buy lots of Pizza and Tacos too. Wahoo win win!
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
7. Re:All 9 of us are thrilled by swilver · 2017-09-22 20:04 · Score: 1
  
  You know, this is actually your own fault as most companies do upgrade. You should have the balls to pack up and leave and work at a company that is with the times (if that is Java 8 or 9 or another language, it doesn't matter). You are limiting your potential and future value by continuing to work with older software.
  As a Java dev, I only have to snap my fingers and get 20 job offers... I then only have to pick the one that I like most.
8. Re:All 9 of us are thrilled by swilver · 2017-09-22 20:13 · Score: 1
  
  Looks like gross incompetence to me. And so gross incompetent use of Java turned you into a hater of Java, makes perfect sense. I guess you must hate all programming languages then, as I've seen gross incompetence in most of them. How you can even bear to use Windows is beyond me.
  Anyway, I'd decompile the software involved, change that "==" into a ">=" (or remove the check altogether) and be on my merry way.
9. Re:All 9 of us are thrilled by swilver · 2017-09-23 05:41 · Score: 1
  
  On site for the most part, although working one day remote a week is often an option. If you work only remote, you are competing with developers from countries where living expenses are low, wages are low and/or taxes are low or all three. You can't win that.
  My situation applies to Europe, where everyone and his dog wants an App, a Website or whatever. I do freelance work there as it pays far better. In the US it seems to be the same (I haven't seen a company that isn't hiring devs), unfortunately going to US is not an option for me due to strict immigration policies.
Production Ready? by swsuehr · 2017-09-22 09:03 · Score: 3, Funny

"JDK 9 is a production-ready implementation..."
It's about time that they're ready for production.
1. Re:Production Ready? by luis_a_espinal · 2017-09-22 11:22 · Score: 1
  
  "JDK 9 is a production-ready implementation..."
  It's about time that they're ready for production.
  Meh, their Weblogic middleware isn't Java8 ready yet. There is a lot of middleware and turnkey COTS systems out there that will simply not work if you move it to JDK 8 because of unknown regressions between JDK versions.
  It is great to move to the latest JDK versions for fresh development using barebone containers,though.
Re:Too little, too late by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-22 09:24 · Score: 2, Insightful

Java will outlive both you and I.
Re:Too little, too late by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-22 09:28 · Score: 1

Come on. Do you really think Sun did better by the time they released Java 6? That indeed looked a deprioritized project. But not what Oracle did with Java 8 and 9, that came with lots of changes and improvements.
Of course Java is a platform used in quite a lot of important stuff, so don't expect releases every 2 months breaking everything like Swift or Python. It's just a different league.
Only one feature would actually matter by lusid1 · 2017-09-22 09:34 · Score: 1

Can it run ALL code and applets written for ALL previous java implementations? No? Then come back when its done.
1. Re:Only one feature would actually matter by swilver · 2017-09-22 20:24 · Score: 2
  
  There isn't a single language for which this is true, unless that language only has a 1.0 version and never patched any security holes. Do you want that security exploit that worked on Java 1.0 to work on Java 9? Perhaps you do depending on what business your in, but the rest of the world doesn't.
  Java is probably *the* most backwards compatible language ever build, and they didn't make an exception with Java 9. So yes, I do expect it to run almost everything that was ever build for it.
  In the cases it doesn't (which I have not encountered in any decently engineered piece of Java) it probably is using undocumented functions or security exploits. I don't think I even want those to keep functioning.
Re:Too little, too late by Billly+Gates · 2017-09-22 09:37 · Score: 1

Ironically, it was not that per say which doomed IE.
It was incompatible with it's own bugs and security which when addressed broke all the ancient crud from the XP era. This is why corporations stuck with Java 6,7 as well as IE 6 for many many years well into 2013 when Windows 7 brought htem out kicking and screaming requiring rewritting everything.
Java is incompatible with itself which is why no one cares about the newer. They want legacy stuff working forever with all the security holes intacted to run PeopleSoft circa 2005 era.

--
http://saveie6.com/
Re: minus project valhalla :( by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-22 09:39 · Score: 1

No project ever needed any of that. Every single piece of software could be written in assembler, so no your project does not 'need' this.
Re:Too little, too late by MightyMartian · 2017-09-22 09:41 · Score: 1

Java's entrenchment is so vast in the enterprise world that about the only competitor is COBOL. It isn't an Internet Explorer, it literally is the 21st century version of Cobol, and will be around just as long.

--
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Re:Great, more incompatible JVMs... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-22 10:11 · Score: 1

Stop hiring H1Bs to write your code then. Use third world developers, get third world software.
Debian issues by reiscw · 2017-09-22 13:40 · Score: 1

I use Java for two reasons. First, I teach and our school gradebook application is written in Java (this is a godsend, because it lets me use Linux 100% at work). Second, I teach AP CS and Java is the current language. OpenJDK works well (and it actually works for the gradebook application too, although it seems a bit buggier at times), but I do like having the Oracle JDK because it's what most of the students have (they are mostly running Windows/macOS). Very rarely (about once every couple of years) we run into a problem where a student program behaves differently under OpenJDK vs. the Oracle JDK.
I wanted to test JDK 9 today in Debian (stretch). Ordinarily I use make-jpkg (installed via java-package) to convert the Oracle tarball into a .deb file that I install with gdebi. Unfortunately, this doesn't work for for JDK 9. You can supposedly use a Ubuntu PPA which installs a package that downloads the tarball from Oracle and installs it. The maintainers of the PPA seem to indicate it's reasonably safe for Debian. That makes me nervous, though, because of all the warnings about mixing distributions in Debian documentation. I'd be happy to hear other opinions/options on this.
My colleagues using Windows are annoyed that the high DPI adjustment in Windows does not seem to work in Java applications; supposedly Java 9 was supposed to implement a fix to this, and I'm curious to see if they did.
1. Re:Debian issues by swilver · 2017-09-22 20:32 · Score: 1
  
  The high DPI fix is for Swing, so it would depend on the UI toolkit used, but also on how those programs were written (if they did anything with fixed amounts of pixels, that won't scale). SWT already runs fine in high DPI (see Eclipse) and JavaFX does as well.
  I'm sure a Debian package will be along shortly for Java 9, but yes, I agree, using the Ubuntu one should be reasonably safe, especially since Java is pretty much self contained and only hooks into the underlying OS at low levels (threading, I/O, etc).
Re:Too little, too late by swilver · 2017-09-22 20:16 · Score: 1

I heard if you keep repeating something long enough, it actually becomes true!
Re:Great, more incompatible JVMs... by swilver · 2017-09-22 20:35 · Score: 1

The fault is with whoever built that software, then with whoever hired those people to build that software, followed by whoever decided to buy this software, followed by YOU who allowed this shit to be installed on their systems without proper auditing. Grow a backbone.
People called Romanes they go the house? by Hognoxious · 2017-09-23 02:12 · Score: 1

Not that for each speak? WTF is that supposed to mean?
This is a Java thread, don't go bringing Python into it.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."