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The Shorter Your Sleep, the Shorter Your Life: the New Sleep Science (independent.co.uk)

An anonymous reader shares a report: A "catastrophic sleep-loss epidemic" is causing a host of potentially fatal diseases, a leading expert has said. In an interview with the Guardian, Professor Matthew Walker, director of the Centre for Human Sleep Science at the University of California, Berkeley, said that sleep deprivation affected "every aspect of our biology" and was widespread in modern society. And yet the problem was not being taken seriously by politicians and employers, with a desire to get a decent night's sleep often stigmatised as a sign of laziness, he said. Electric lights, television and computer screens, longer commutes, the blurring of the line between work and personal time, and a host of other aspects of modern life have contributed to sleep deprivation, which is defined as less than seven hours a night. But this has been linked to cancer, diabetes, heart disease, stroke, Alzheimer's disease, obesity and poor mental health among other health problems. In short, a lack of sleep is killing us.

142 comments

  1. Next up by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 5, Funny

    Eight hours or more work days are killing us. Learn more on the news at 23:00.

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    #DeleteFacebook
    1. Re:Next up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:Next up by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Federal compensatory time legislation and corresponding rules about accounting for outside-hours work are on my list of major issues. Salaried workers in this country work on average 47 hours, and get paid for only 40; it is time to deal with that.

      I am also considering a 32-hour work week, although this one requires more careful planning and execution, if we are to execute it at all. It should be much easier after deploying Universal Social Security.

    3. Re:Next up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The news is at 22:00, you insensitive, east-coast clod.

    4. Re: Next up by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      or.

      can someone tldr it for me and tell me if short sleep gives you less more or the same number of waking hours before we die.
      like, if i live the 28 hour day, does the greater number of hours awake make up for the fewer number of days.

    5. Re:Next up by JackieBrown · · Score: 2

      You know, every job I worked salary was like that but had the understanding that if you needed a sick day or leave early, it was understood and allowed with no issues.

      It's not like that where I work now. We have to use our PTO for a doctor's appointment even if we physically work on site 50 hours. It actually pisses me off.

      I fought and won with HR about not using 2 hours of PTO if I left 2 hours early but had worked 8 hours (with the stipulation on their part that there was a business need for me to be on site - fair enough) but lost when when it came to working some of those hours during the week.

      It's frustrating that my hourly employees can use an hour of unpaid FMLA and have the ability to work a extra hours during the week so they can still get paid for 40 hours but I can work 40-50 hours but with no way of clocking that time while be expected to mark myself absent and unpaid for for the time I missed under the same FMLA.

      I expected to get paid 40 hours for 40+ hours work. That I factored in when I negotiated my salary. I didn't expect to get paid 32 hours when I worked 40+ (unless I am willing to alos lose my PTO time.)

    6. Re:Next up by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      You should bolster your website with some info about your economic education, experience, and credibility. The ideas you list here are so easily worked around and you don't even address the obvious unintended consequences, so most people who have a background in economics are not going to take you seriously.

      Start with how you're solving the Economic Calculation Problem in your economic model (and publish the model too).

      It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. -Rothbard

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    7. Re:Next up by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It's not like that where I work now. We have to use our PTO for a doctor's appointment even if we physically work on site 50 hours

      See, when I had PTO, I also had comp time. When I worked an extra 8 hours, I skipped a day and used 0 PTO. Each quarter they let me cash out (whole or partial) and get paid for it. I worked, so I got paid.

      They also had us track our time, because we needed accounting for this. Once, it snowed, and they comped us 2 weeks due to weather, so I don't mind the exchange. Besides, if I expect them not to make me work without pay, they can expect me to show I was at work.

      I actually wouldn't be opposed to a flex-time alternative--your employer doesn't have to keep strict accounting of your time, so long as they allow you to take a full day when you actually run out of work (it happens!) and let you submit for extra hours work when you have additional work, with any hours worked under due to lack of actual work either covered on the balance of overtime for that week or sacrificed by the employer (they pay you even though you went home). If you have more than 40 hours at the end of the week, you bank the extra as comp; if you have less than 40 hours because there wasn't work for you every day, you don't use leave, and they pay you for 40 hours; if you have less than 40 hours for reasons other than running out of work, you dip into your comp time balance, then into your PTO.

      In the flex time setup, employee and manager attest that you left 3 hours early due to having completed your work for the day, or that you worked an extra 2 hours due to being needed. In the non-flex-time setup, you account for when you got in and when you left, with accounting rules (i.e. whether a 15-minute block "counts" depends on when you clocked in). In the non-flex-time setup, you may not dismiss a salaried employee for having no work to do and thus force him to use leave: if you send someone home early for non-disciplinary reasons, you comp them the time.

      The choice in this setup is between accounting for comp time by schedule tracking versus by mutual attestation. Mutual attestation is less strain on a business.

      It'd also be nice to have some sort of rules to break strict schedules, e.g. an office where your work is batch done by a deadline doesn't necessarily require you to be there 9-5; it could be that you work 8 hours from 6am to 6pm, so you can arrive as late as 10am if there's not a 9am meeting. If your work is time-of-day sensitive, then so be it. I don't know how regulators would regulate that--and I am a fan of creating legislation to create a regulatory body to make these decisions faster than Congress, rather than to enshrine it all in Congressional law. It is, after all, not the expertise of any member of Congress exactly how to dictate each and every business must be run, even though some baseline standards must exist.

    8. Re:Next up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your first mistake was playing HR's game instead of your own. Jut take the time and don't report it so long as you work over 40.

      If they catch on, make sure you have records that you worked more than 40 to justify your salary, apologize if you must, and don't change your behavior.

      Eventually HR will get sick of dealing with you and if you are half-competent at your job your supervisor and their supervisor will shrug off the evil policies.

    9. Re:Next up by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      We did this at my last job as well (comp time).

    10. Re:Next up by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      My manager tracks this. She has 4 direct reports so it's pretty easy to track me.

    11. Re:Next up by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Find a new job. A manager that is so stupid they have to track facetime is useless and incapable of change.

      Seriously, vote with your feet. Apply for 10 jobs today, while on 'the clock'. Repeat every day until you have something better.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    12. Re:Next up by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      That was part of the "we don't get enough sleep" joke, you west-coast clod.

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      #DeleteFacebook
    13. Re:Next up by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I don't propose any socialist policies, so the economic calculation problem doesn't apply. My economic solutions are all market-based.

      For example: I prefer a public-option healthcare system because we can use the lower-deviation remittance rates negotiated between private insurers and private providers as the range in which the Government will pay those specific providers for healthcare services. With the current healthcare mandate, employers must provide health insurance benefits; yet this payroll cost drives up prices, and consumers wish to economize (to expend the least-means for the most-gains), and so employers will seek the lowest-price insurance partner to provide benefits. Insurers will have this downward pressure, and seek low prices from healthcare providers. Providers, on the other hand, must pay payrolls (wages, payroll taxes, benefits) and, as well, collect enough additional revenue to pay for the cost-of-risk (threat risk), plus profit to allow them flexibility when markets change so as to take advantage of opportunities (another type of risk), so have a basis from which they negotiate upwards.

      I provide a Universal Benefit in my Universal Social Security system as a cash payment derived from 15% of all income. This cash payment improves the financial position of low-income households (it improves the financial position of all households, really--the tax burden in total is around $600 billion lower), reducing their eligibility for means-tested aid. This in turn reduces the total cost of aid, and provides support to more lower-income households. With an increase in consumer purchasing power as such, they can decide how to run their households; the greater stability reduces the cost-of-risk for landlords renting to lower-income tenants, thus helping to reduce low-income rents (as there is now a profit opportunity); and the market sorts itself out. Housing assistance, food assistance, and social security's retirement and disability programs still exist to fill some gaps.

      Likewise, working standards don't attempt to calculate how to distribute the factors of production; they provide stability in what is considered a day's work, a week's work, and a year's work. This keeps us on even ground and thus stabilizes the labor market. A campaign for shorter working hours is, however, a major change to the availability of labor and, as I have stated, means reduced productive output: we sacrifice gains in material wealth (more produced, more purchaseable per person) in exchange for investing fewer labor-hours and having more free time in total. Continued technological progress will continue to increase per-capita wealth so long as we don't continue to decrease working hours; any decrease at any time will represent, essentially, "Buying time".

      If you want to talk about the unintended consequences, then go right ahead. I can start:

      The Universal Benefit provided by my Universal Social Security creates an incentive for more immigrant labor to come and work little while receiving increased income. We foresee the same from Social Security retirement benefits, and so we have a system of credit for income earned by which an immigrant becomes eligible for Social Security's OASDI program after becoming a citizen, and only to the degree reflected by his working history. While every natural-born American will receive the full benefit at age 18, naturalized Americans will receive a year-end non-refundable tax credit, meaning they won't get a refund if their credit exceeds their liability: fail to earn enough (and pay enough in taxes) and you lose it. As they earn working credit, they receive first a partial cash benefit, then the remainder to displace their tax liability; if they cease to work, they lose the year-end refund. By the time they receive the full benefit outright, they're used to living at a higher standard-of-living, and essentially-equivalent to natural-born Americans in terms of this risk.

      Some have suggested programs similar to the Universal

    14. Re:Next up by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

      If they catch on, make sure you have records that you worked more than 40 to justify your salary, apologize if you must, and don't change your behavior.

      If they're tracking your PTO this tightly, then meticulously track your own time as well. Depending on the state, you *might* be able to claim or settle for the extra hours you worked later, depending on your state's labor laws and stance.

    15. Re:Next up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol, 47 hours. 7am-6pm M-F and 10am-5pm Saturday! NYC, FML! No overtime, just salary! Business always want less regulation, but they act like children with insane demands. "Ice-cream for breakfast! Because I say so!". Regulations are the only things that would keep this insanity in check. Sadly, the opposite is happening, with countries like France loosening their regulation that earlier had far better work-life balance. (France used to have a mandated 35 hours/week maximum.). It doesn't make sense to have slogging hours and unemployment simultaneously. Hire more people, you stingy bastards!

    16. Re:Next up by Khashishi · · Score: 1
    17. Re:Next up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a trend of exploiting workers like this. With unions we've pushed it back. Now we only work the hours we've registered and with proper overtime pay. Why you give away your life for someone else's dream is beyond me. Seek legal councel.

    18. Re:Next up by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      You know, every job I worked salary was like that but had the understanding that if you needed a sick day or leave early, it was understood and allowed with no issues.

      It's not like that where I work now. We have to use our PTO for a doctor's appointment even if we physically work on site 50 hours. It actually pisses me off.

      My employer is like this (although fortunately my boss is relaxed and doesn't enforce it). What's worse, we don't get very good PTO to begin with- 3 weeks a year (for sickness, and vacation)... and we don't even get things like Xmas off... well, everyone takes Xmas off but it comes out of your PTO. If you take Xmas, thanksgiving, New Years, July 4th, etc off- that doesn't give you much time less to be sick and no time to take vacation. I usually end up hogging all my time for my end of year employment anniversary just in case I get sick and have to take sick time. Of course that means almost no time off over a year, and then two weeks vacation all in one go at the end... but I have to in case I get sick.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    19. Re: Next up by hey! · · Score: 1

      can someone tldr it for me and tell me if short sleep gives you less more or the same number of waking hours before we die.

      Actually, adequate sleep does not significantly prolong your lifespan, so you unequivocally get more time by cheating yourself on sleep.

      Here's the relevant bit:

      An adult sleeping only 6.75 hours a night would be predicted to live only to their early 60s without medical intervention.

      Note that the life expectancy in Britain is 82 years, so the good news is that modern medicine can keep you going with your sleep-deprivation induced senile dementia, obesity, diabetes and hypertension for decades. And the low productivity, depression, ADHD symptoms, and general crappy mood you'll have for 40 years prior to that is a small price to pay for 75 minutes extra a day to enjoy them in.

      --
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    20. Re: Next up by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      I'm going to live forever . . . . or die trying!

    21. Re: Next up by hey! · · Score: 1

      If you try hard enough it will seem like forever.

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      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    22. Re:Next up by Chryana · · Score: 1

      I love how you reject with no explanations the suggestions of the GP and then proceed to refer him to a website about the Austrian school, which is not considered 'main stream' in economics, as far as I know.

      I do not pretend to know much about economics either, so I'm not going to comment on the feasibility of the 32 hour week or UBI(which Universal Social Security looks like, as far II can gather from a quick perusal of the GP link). However, I think forcing someone to work overtime all year long for no extra pay is clearly an abuse that should be severely punished.

    23. Re: Next up by KGIII · · Score: 1

      On my list... Major issues... To deal with it... I'm considering...

      Dude, you're a powerless peon posting on Slashdot. You have no power, you never will. Nobody is ever going to take you seriously, probably because you're insane.

      No, I'm not better than you. I'm a powerless peon who will also never be taken seriously or in a position of power.

      You are going through one of your cycles again. You're starting to present as though you're a serious economist that is respected and considered. Your posts are starting to border on, of not crossing, the point where you're delusional.

      I don't know if you're off your meds or not. If you've been isolating, maybe you should try to get some time in with people, besides at work.

      Seriously, you're starting to worry me. The problem with delusions is things come crashing down when you come to your senses and realize you're just a lonely working stiff who lives alone and you've been typing insanities as your magnum opus. You're one small breakdown from no longer writing it on your computer but, instead, write it in fecal matter and stray cat blood.

      Seriously, I worry about you sometimes. I've read your posts for like a decade. You go through cycles and you're in the middle of one. If you can really read this, go find someone to be your friend - even if just for a few hours. Get out of your house and stop isolating. Do something besides work, stay in your house, and actively avoiding people when you walk to the grocery store.

      Go to the bar. Go to the park. Go talk to people in the park - but not unattended children, not that I worry about you, I just worry about the perception. Seriously, you're isolating again, aren't you?

      Fuck, email me if you need to. I'm seriously concerned.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    24. Re:Next up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      atleast then we can cut some years off this state of constant suffering that we call life

    25. Re: Next up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      28 hour day is roughly 4 hours sleep a day and 8 hours sleep a "night".

    26. Re: Next up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where I'm from (Norway), the government guarantees that everyone should have 5 weeks of vacation per year, and forces companies to make the employees take that time off (if employees don't use their vacation then the company is fined). These weeks come in addition to sick days, where sick days require that you get a doctor's note if you're gonna be gone for more than a couple of days.

    27. Re:Next up by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      What part of "market-based" do you not understand?

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    28. Re: Next up by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Please explain how you enjoy "sleep-deprivation induced senile dementia, obesity, diabetes and hypertension for decades."

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      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    29. Re:Next up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work 6 hours per day, which is considered full time employment here. I try to sleep for 7 hours per night, because 6 is too few and 8 is too much. That gives me 11 hours per day that I can use to enjoy life.

    30. Re:Next up by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      You ask a strange question. Where do you see a defect?

    31. Re: Next up by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Dude, you're a powerless peon posting on Slashdot. You have no power, you never will.

      The same can be said about Barack Obama, Franklin D. Roosevent, or Bill Clinton. Well, could, at any rate. Both Clintons started pretty much middle-class, although Bill's mom married a used car dealer. Obama was also born to parents of little note and not great wealth. These weren't the poorest people in the land; they weren't much different than any other peon who can afford at least a nice suit.

      Sounds to me like you're projecting your own inadequacy. Meanwhile I'm surrounded by people who have run campaigns in the past, understand how they work, and are actually excited because they see a real opportunity here--the ones who don't think I could win still think I can enact change in the public mind, and most of them think I can seriously win. None of them are getting any money from me and several barely know me.

      You're starting to present as though you're a serious economist that is respected and considered. Your posts are starting to border on, of not crossing, the point where you're delusional.

      I get this a lot from microeconomists who think that money comes out of nowhere and that the CPI sets prices and controls inflation (yes that's a thing people believe).

      When you encounter something you don't understand, do you ever consider maybe the problem is you? I don't like when there's information I can't register: it means there's a gap somewhere in my knowledge, even if the presented information is somehow wrong--I should at least be able to identify why an incorrect statement is wrong. When someone claims raising minimum wage captures money going into the coffers of the super-rich and creates jobs, for example, that's an easy proposition to dismantle because I know how the factors around that system work.

      If you're scratching your head saying, "That sounds different than what I think is right. How the heck does that work? It must be wrong," you're missing information: you don't have a reason you're right and the new proposition is wrong, so you're basically just guessing.

      If you want to see insanity, go talk to the Obama birthers.

    32. Re: Next up by i286NiNJA · · Score: 1

      I noticed this too he was intelligent and somewhat likable when I talked to him yesterday but he was clearly manic... going way way off topic at a million miles an hour. If be it drugs,brain chemistry or overwork he should be talking to someone about this shit.

  2. It's simple math. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are assigned a certain amount of sleep at birth. If you don't use it all up, it's added to the start of your dirt nap.

    1. Re:It's simple math. by alex67500 · · Score: 2

      Actually, that is an interesting point, but should be presented from the other side.

      You're assigned a certain amount of awake time at birth, but sleep deprivation means you reduce that waking time bit by bit.

    2. Re:It's simple math. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      You are assigned a certain amount of sleep at birth. If you don't use it all up, it's added to the start of your dirt nap.

      I thought TFA might work out to that, but it turns out it doesn't - greatly increased risks of many diseases that'll take you out way sooner.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    3. Re:It's simple math. by olsmeister · · Score: 2

      And if you try to use all your awake time consecutively, this is what happens.

    4. Re:It's simple math. by ranton · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You are assigned a certain amount of sleep at birth. If you don't use it all up, it's added to the start of your dirt nap.

      I thought TFA might work out to that, but it turns out it doesn't - greatly increased risks of many diseases that'll take you out way sooner.

      But it would still be simple for the study to say "adults sleeping 6 hours per night lose a median of X years off their life." They don't say anything like that, so it is impossible to know if you are likely to lose more waking hours in your life than you gain by 40 waking days worth of time you gain each year by sleeping two hours less. If you sleep 6 hours instead of 8 each day for 40 years, you have gained just over 4 years of time. So the question is whether the health problems they studied are likely to reduce your life by more than 4 years on average.

      The study also keeps throwing in statements such as "predicted to live only to their early 60s without medical intervention." But they don't state what medical intervention means here. Many of the problems mentioned in the study are caused by rising blood pressure. Does this mean that with blood pressure medication these adverse effects of sleep deprevation go away? And if they don't go away, are the effects diminished?

      Considering there are real benefits of sleeping a little less (more hours in each day), you need to be very specific when describing the downsides. Worthless statements such as "twice as likely to have a heart attack" are meaningless without knowing whether medication affects that increase, what are the chances of surviving that heart attack, etc.

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      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    5. Re:It's simple math. by gnick · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you sleep 6 hours instead of 8 each day for 40 years, you have gained just over 4 years of time. So the question is whether the health problems they studied are likely to reduce your life by more than 4 years on average.

      That's A question. Another would be the degree to which 8 hours vs 6 improves your quality of life during your waking hours. I'm in a better mood all day if I get 8 instead of 6. At 3 or 4, I spend the day miserable and would gladly trade a couple of waking hours for sleeping ones.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    6. Re:It's simple math. by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      You're assigned a certain amount of awake time at birth, but sleep deprivation means you reduce that waking time bit by bit.

      I've had chrono-reassignment surgery. I've always felt like an immortal, but baby, I wasn't born that way. I'm now able to live longer by sleeping less.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    7. Re:It's simple math. by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      And let's add that we're gaining hours during our productive years, and when we can most enjoy them by sleeping less. I doubt I'll care as much when I'm not able to run, jump, cycle, swim, etc. For over 40 yrs., I've typically slept less than 5 hrs per night. Now, about to turn 59, I can't do some of the things I used to...the knees just aren't what they used to be...running, climbing, etc. And neither is the pecker...what used to be all nighters are now one and done. I won't give a shit if I can live to 100 when I'm no longer able to enjoy it.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    8. Re:It's simple math. by ranton · · Score: 1

      Another [question] would be the degree to which 8 hours vs 6 improves your quality of life during your waking hours. I'm in a better mood all day if I get 8 instead of 6. At 3 or 4, I spend the day miserable and would gladly trade a couple of waking hours for sleeping ones.

      That is certainly another important question when determining how much you should sleep. My wife really needs 7-8 hours to be happy, while I don't see any noticeable benefits with more than 6 hours. So she ends up getting an hour or two of extra sleep than I do each night. But considering I just went on blood pressure medication last week it's likely that reduced sleep does have some adverse affects. Then again my father and grandfather had heart attacks, my stressful work schedule has been messing with my workouts and diet over the last six months, and I'm nearly 40 now, so who know how much of a factor sleep is in my current health issues.

      But while your question is important for someone to make a decision about their sleep schedule, it is not a question which is relevant to discussions about this article since it isn't related to their findings.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    9. Re:It's simple math. by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Lifespan year> awake years. Opportunities like seeing the next president or your great-grandchildren.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    10. Re:It's simple math. by ranton · · Score: 1

      Lifespan year> awake years. Opportunities like seeing the next president or your great-grandchildren.

      Agreed, but is 1 lifespan year > 10 awake years? I would say no, but couldn't tell you what I think the actual ratio is. And it would be different to different people. Some may say 1 lifespan year 1 awake year since they feel they will enjoy that year more in their 30's than they will in their 80's. I personally think I would take 1 awake year in my 30's over a decade of lifespan years after senility sets in (if ever).

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    11. Re:It's simple math. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The most important life extending research is the one that is not being done: how do we simply turn off sleeping, hence gaining 30% additional life span [25 or more productive/enjoyable years].

    12. Re:It's simple math. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Lifespan year> awake years. Opportunities like seeing the next president or your great-grandchildren.

      I've seen enough presidents. Every time I think I've seen the worst possible one a worse one follows.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    13. Re:It's simple math. by avandesande · · Score: 1

      after Trump, don't tell me you are not curious ; )

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    14. Re:It's simple math. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      after Trump, don't tell me you are not curious ; )

      All I know is, Kanye West has postulated running for President. I'm not ready for the capital to be renamed Westington, DC by executive order.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    15. Re:It's simple math. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Capitol rather.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  3. Read this yesterday. by Maritz · · Score: 1

    It's basically an advert for the guy's book. He's probably right, though.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  4. SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    By sleeping 10% more, you can extend your life by 4%.
    If you consider: SLEEPING = LIVING
    If not, then you have lost 6% of your life to sleep.

    1. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't enjoy my life when I'm tired, so I'll take sleeping.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by budgenator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't confuse living with enduring.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    3. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you consider "SLEEPING = LIVING"? The "sleep" value is a subset of "life", and "life" includes the greater "not asleep but still alive" time.

    4. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good at math, bad at critical thinking. Sure, you might sleep more than your life is lengthened, but experiencing better health, less disease (and related cost), and overall better quality of life (and productivity) by being rested is a pretty good tradeoff.

    5. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Living is about how much you do, not how long it takes.

    6. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      By increasing 360 minutes (6 hours) per day of sleep by 10% (to 396 minutes), you increase your life by 4%. Your day life includes the full day, all 1440 minutes (24 hours) of it, which you increase by 4%, to 1497.6 minutes. Sleeping an extra 36 minutes, then, grants you another 57.6 minutes of living, or another 21.6 minutes of waking time.

      That's 151.2 minutes (a little over 2.5 hours) per week, 655.2 minutes (just shy of 11 hours) per month on average, and 7862.4 minutes (just over 131 hours, or just under 5.5 days) per year.

      Depending on the size of the grain of salt with which you take this study, that is.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    7. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For those of us who decided to invest a little bit into lucid dreaming, sleep is a time of adventures, space exploration, impossible sex, bliss, etc... Compared with siting at a desk for a third of the day, sleeping is living. Why are you wasting the best times of your life?

    8. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sleep about 4 hours a night, so gain like an extra 8h working day every two days and I do get much more done than others.

    9. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Living is about how much you do, not how long it takes.

      Is that how you explain it to your girl friend when you're too quick?

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    10. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Sleep isn't so bad. I have vivid and entertaining dreams. I'm usually reluctant to wake up, and sometimes those dreams contain creative ideas that carry over in productive ways to waking life.

    11. Re: SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean his waifu body pillow right?

    12. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by swillden · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse living with enduring.

      I don't. I like my life. And I hate spending so much of it unconscious.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    13. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse living with enduring.

      I don't. I like my life. And I hate spending so much of it unconscious.

      If you are ever unconscious for any amount of time, you need to see a doctor. That is NOT normal and is a sign of serious illness.

    14. Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by swillden · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse living with enduring.

      I don't. I like my life. And I hate spending so much of it unconscious.

      If you are ever unconscious for any amount of time, you need to see a doctor. That is NOT normal and is a sign of serious illness.

      Are you conscious while you're sleeping? Really?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  5. Posted by msmash on Monday Sep 25, 2017 @10:00am by iamacat · · Score: 0

    Slashdot staff is way ahead of you folks!

  6. Actually it is not that big a boon by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    Longer you sleep, your life will extend by exactly the same number of hours you slept. So there is no net new active hours added to your life.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Actually it is not that big a boon by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
      A pair of brilliant scientists, the Tappet Brothers, Click and Clack, made a great observation with respect to exercises.

      The Tappet Brothers Law of Exercises:

      Exercise extends life exactly by the duration spent exercising.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    2. Re:Actually it is not that big a boon by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      I think an early anti-smoking campaign went the opposite direction: when asked to figure out the harm a cigarette does, someone went out and timed how long it took to smoke one. Seven minutes. So the phrase, "Every cigarette you smoke takes seven minutes off your life," was born.

    3. Re: Actually it is not that big a boon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I miss Car Talk.
      R.I.P.

    4. Re:Actually it is not that big a boon by slinches · · Score: 1

      A corollary of that is that hours spent doing things you enjoy, which also count as exercise, are free.

      --
      Knowledge Brings Fear
  7. Bad habits by PPH · · Score: 1

    Learn to get to bed and go to sleep early enough to get the requisite sleep. Stop all this bullshit about 'Muh biologies' as an excuse to stay up later. And then complain that the school day* starts too early.

    Aside from getting a head start practicing what will be required in one's employment career, I concur that late nights and less sleep are very unhealthy (based on my anecdotal observations). I have been involved with several groups that split between members preferring daytime activities to those who preferred later in the evening. Over the course of a few decades, the apparent age difference of the earlybirds vs the night owls has really started to stand out. With the 'sundowners' (to borrow a term from dementia studies) aging about 10 to 20 years more in appearance than the early risers.

    *I suspect that this may be the faculty as much as the students. When I went to high school, some of our teachers came from a segment of society that felt it necessary to close the bars every night. And then bitch when they had to put up with the little monsters first thing in the morning.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Bad habits by beelsebob · · Score: 2

      Actually, it's been pretty rigorously demonstrated at this point that teenagers bodies really genuinely do need sleep later in the day than adult ones. They really are biologically late sleepers, and late risers.

    2. Re:Bad habits by epine · · Score: 2

      Over the course of a few decades, the apparent age difference of the earlybirds vs the night owls has really started to stand out. With the 'sundowners' (to borrow a term from dementia studies) aging about 10 to 20 years more in appearance than the early risers.

      The only way you could possibly get this impression is if your "sundowners" group was highly correlated with smokers, alcoholics and unwise drug use (of the kind further correlated with pre-existing neurological imbalance).

      I had N24 for thirty years (recently conquered), and the only reason I presently look my age is the copious amount of albino hair infiltrating an even more copious mop of same-old hair. (Being awake all night for five out of every fifteen days certainly helped to keep me out of the sun.)

      The systematically grizzled-before-their-time "sundowner" groups I have known either gathered together in dialysis clinics (member of extended family, who was the only athlete among them), hung out in smoky rooms all day, or retired at age fifty from owning a hectic restaurant to a semi-affluent lifestyle of sailboats, golf, and steadily escalating post yard-arm inebriation.

      Stop all this bullshit about 'Muh biologies' as an excuse to stay up later.

      If I were you, I'd return both your bullshit detector and your dialect coach from whence they came and demand a full refund (if a $5 Starbucks gift card is the best you can wrangle, I'd still colour your situation improved—should you manage to spend it wisely).

      The funny sensation you're now feeling? That's 'muh biologies' putting it's boot up your ass.
      _____

      On another note, the group of people who sleep less than they ought to also includes a disproportionate fraction of those who abuse fructose (somebody out there is drinking two Starbucks Mocha Frappuccinos per day).

      Caffe Vanilla Frappuccino Blended Beverage
      Serving size: 16 fl oz
      Sugar: 69 g (4.91 tbsp)

      How Worried Should We Be About Sugar? — 2016

      RAZ: So what is the — what is a daily recommended limit for, like, an adult human for maximum amount of sugar we should be having every day?

      LUSTIG: Well, depends on who you ask. The World Health Organization originally said six teaspoons of added sugar per day.

      RAZ: Sounds reasonable.

      LUSTIG: Well, it is actually reasonable. It's 25 grams. It's not, you know, an enormous amount, but it should be enough. But — but they were lobbied so severely by the industry. So they actually ended up liberalizing it from 6 to 12 teaspoons of added sugar per day.

      Sleep deprivation leads to a) caffeine-seeking behaviour, and b) sugary-snack–seeking behaviour, and c) the aforementioned base-clearing (and liver clogging) home run.

    3. Re:Bad habits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow! You went to a school where the teachers got to decide the school hours?

    4. Re:Bad habits by PPH · · Score: 1

      Their union did.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:Bad habits by PPH · · Score: 1

      Some teenagers. And now I can pick them out of a crowd. All my night-owl classmates look like shit and are starting to die off in their 60s.

      If it turns out that this really is a majority of teenagers, I suggest that we start looking for shared environmental factors. And I'd start with blue LEDs.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    6. Re:Bad habits by PPH · · Score: 1

      highly correlated with smokers, alcoholics and unwise drug use (of the kind further correlated with pre-existing neurological imbalance).

      On the other hand, this neurological imbalance may very well be a symptom of a lack of sleep.

      Sleep deprivation leads to a) caffeine-seeking behaviour, and b) sugary-snackâ"seeking behaviour,

      Caffeine, when consumed in moderate amounts and when not used to artificially modify ones natural sleep cycle isn't really a problem. And if you read TFA, lack of sleep is linked to hyperglycaemia due to a loss of response to insulin. That makes sugary snack seeking behavior worse.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    7. Re:Bad habits by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      How many blue LEDs did you see in the 1960s?

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  8. "politicians and employers"? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And yet the problem was not being taken seriously by politicians and employers

    Why should politicians and employers be involved? Because you're a bunch of kids who need daddy to tell you what to do?

    Electric lights, television and computer screens, longer commutes, the blurring of the line between work and personal time, and a host of other aspects of modern life have contributed to sleep deprivation

    Yeah, anything but personal choice to do more stuff and sleep less, then make it up by taking stimulants.

    My wife and I go to bed at a reasonable time each night (10PM) and get up at 6AM, no need for an alarm clock. Yes, it takes discipline.

    1. Re:"politicians and employers"? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1, Interesting

      We set things like working hours by the Free Labor Standards act in the United States. We don't have a Federal compensatory time rule, so employers can work you for 60 hours if you're salaried and pay 40. On average, a salaried employee works 47 hours per week--about 1 extra unpaid day.

      Federal compensatory time legislation and corresponding rules about accounting for outside-hours work are on my list of major issues. A 32-hour work week is on the table for consideration, although this one requires more careful planning and execution, if we are to execute it at all.

      My wife and I go to bed at a reasonable time each night (10PM) and get up at 6AM, no need for an alarm clock. Yes, it takes discipline.

      Some folks are fully-rested in three hours of sleep per night. Why aren't you?

    2. Re:"politicians and employers"? by computational+super · · Score: 2

      Why should employers be involved?

      Yeah, why should employers care? If you die, there's a line of them waiting to replace you. Plus they don't have to pay out severance. The less you sleep, the better it works out for them.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    3. Re:"politicians and employers"? by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      Because, depending on your employer and your position, your boss might be calling or emailing after normal work hours? You might be under pressure to work extra hours, and that cuts into your non-work time, and sleep is regularly the first thing to be affected by that sort of thing?

      I mean, hell, I work a 9-5 job (in-house developer for a smallish company), and there have been times where one member of management or another has pulled a "Oh, we absolutely have to have this done today" at 4:45.

      And I've gotten in trouble (for a given value of trouble) for not responding to an email that wasn't sent until 6 p.m. (Hell, one time, a member of management sent an email at 1 a.m., and had a case of the chapped ass that I didn't respond to it until nine hours later. He... doesn't work here any more.)

      The problem isn't with all employers, full stop.

      It's with a specific sub-set of employers who think that because they're the ones providing a paycheck, that you must be available whenever they say, regardless of how unreasonable it may be.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    4. Re:"politicians and employers"? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      We set things like working hours by the Free Labor Standards act in the United States. We don't have a Federal compensatory time rule, so employers can work you for 60 hours if you're salaried and pay 40. On average, a salaried employee works 47 hours per week--about 1 extra unpaid day.

      Sounds like you need to consider going into contracting!!!

      As an independent contractor, you can negotiate your bill rate, making sure you get paid for EVERY hour worked.

      And let's face it, these days, employers have NO loyalty to the workers, you can be let go at any time for most any reason or no reason.

      If you're only going to get the job security of a contractor, you might as well get the independence and bill rate of a contractor.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    5. Re: "politicians and employers"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, you=good, and if everyone else were more like you, they would be better off, and the world would be a better place. I think that sums up just about every personâ(TM)s opinion about everything. Weâ(TM)re through the looking glass here, people!

    6. Re:"politicians and employers"? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      I've been a contractor, and it was better; we can't, however, force every business to just hire contractors. My experience contracting is a large part of my expertise in solving these sorts of problems; the other part is my knowledge of project management and, by extension, my understanding of both the use of subject matter experts (my own knowledge is always limited) and the importance of involving and considering the needs of all stakeholders (employees, lawmakers, state economies, employers, etc.).

      Businesses are going to go corp-to-corp contracting because it's more-efficient, and corporate contractors are also more-efficient at handling employees than a bunch of independent contractors are at handling themselves. Self-employment involves a lot of duplicate work compared to a bunch of employees working for an employer; in the end, the consumer has to pay for that work all the way up the chain. Wages and payrolls come out of revenues, after all.

    7. Re:"politicians and employers"? by EndlessNameless · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you need to consider going into contracting!!!

      Not everyone can go into contracting. The entire point behind legal reform is to address the problem across the board.

      There are also financial risks associated with independent contracting, and people shouldn't need to take on those risks just to have a healthy sleep schedule.

      If you're only going to get the job security of a contractor, you might as well get the independence and bill rate of a contractor.

      Most companies have a very low number of contractors. Especially in roles related to their core competency.

      And those that contract extensively... well, they usually contract with other businesses because they need staffing and availability guarantees.

      E.g., janitorial services are often contracted, but it's one contract with another company because no facilities manager wants to negotiate with 20 independent janitors.

      I would certainly encourage people to consider independent employment, but we can't consider it a viable solution to US employment woes.

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
    8. Re:"politicians and employers"? by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      Ok - lets change it.

      How should they stop it? Not allowing overtime? Micromanaging salary people more to make sure they get the full 40 hours from their employees during their assigned shifts and then not allowing them into the building / online after those 40 hours?

      Having a sleep test to even walk into the building in the morning? Warn than fire people up if they have an outside of work life that conflicted with this article's definition of enough rest even though they are productive at work?

    9. Re:"politicians and employers"? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Businesses are going to go corp-to-corp contracting because it's more-efficient,

      I'm advocating individiuals do corp-to-corp contracting.

      I have set myself up as an S-Corp and do my work corp-to-corp....works out great.

      If you are a W2 employee of a contracting house...you kinda end up getting the worst of both worlds and are handing money off to a middleman that really isn't required.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    10. Re:"politicians and employers"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an independent contractor, you can negotiate your bill rate, making sure you get paid for EVERY hour worked.

      Most FLSA-exempt employees are not contractors, they're salaried employees. In addition to OP's issues, labor laws in the US allow employers to space shifts 8 hours apart, which with commuting, eating, showering, etc., leaves only about 5 - 6 hours to sleep.

    11. Re:"politicians and employers"? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Not everyone can go into contracting. The entire point behind legal reform is to address the problem across the board.

      Perhaps we should change things, to make it easier for most folks to do independent contracting...?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    12. Re:"politicians and employers"? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You've got a good thing going if every hour worked is billable.

      That said contracting IS better. Clients never get confused and start to think they're your dad. Employers sometimes do.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    13. Re:"politicians and employers"? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I meant that corp-to-corp is more-efficient because the work you do as an S-Corp is consolidated by organizational leaders, instead of having to organize yourself as a business. In large businesses, executives make anywhere from half a penny to two and a half pennies per employee per year; in smaller businesses, executives have lower salaries, albeit they may amount to thousands of dollars per employee per year. Businesses with thousands of employees have half a dozen people in their payroll departments (or they pay ADP to do it for half the cost, although they have financial systems departments which rig all their information up to send the correct data to ADP's systems or to their own payroll department regularly either way).

      Being a contractor for a contracting corporation means you don't have to interview for jobs; you can take high-urgency, high-dollar work, get paid, and move on. You can take multiple contracts at once and work part-time on each. You can tap the knowledge and expertise of others in your organization. All while someone else handles your taxes and benefits and all that complex business stuff I once needed to do (less now, but still have to file extended forms thanks to owning a campaign committee). It's great.

      S-Corp workers are slightly-manic and don't mind doing all the extra business-end stuff because it's interesting and gives you a sense of independence. No real advantage, and largely is a big cost in terms of time and personal risk; but if that's what you enjoy, then go for it.

    14. Re:"politicians and employers"? by EndlessNameless · · Score: 1

      Perhaps we should change things, to make it easier for most folks to do independent contracting...?

      That may work; it depends on the specific changes. On the other hand, it may be possible to give regular employees more freedom. Most employers want an exclusive arrangement for business-essential roles, so there will be more hurdles than just finance and legal issues.

      Essentially, I see it far more wide-reaching to split the difference between wage-slavery and contracting. I.e., establish a reasonable ability for workers to: set working hours, take breaks, schedule leave, be left alone outside of working hours, or self-direct.

      I get most of those things from my job, but I know that many jobs are very restrictive---with no business need for it. Barely-competent managers are, in my opinion, the root of this, but in the end the stress falls on the employee regardless of the ultimate cause.

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
    15. Re:"politicians and employers"? by BradleyUffner · · Score: 1

      Ok - lets change it.

      How should they stop it? Not allowing overtime? Micromanaging salary people more to make sure they get the full 40 hours from their employees during their assigned shifts and then not allowing them into the building / online after those 40 hours?

      Having a sleep test to even walk into the building in the morning? Warn than fire people up if they have an outside of work life that conflicted with this article's definition of enough rest even though they are productive at work?

      Force employers to actually pay employees for the time they work, at a rate that increases for every 15 minute block over 8 hours in a day. Having to pay increasingly higher rates for hours beyond a healthy limit would act as a disincentive to work employees to death.

    16. Re:"politicians and employers"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My wife and I go to bed at a reasonable time each night (10PM) and get up at 6AM, no need for an alarm clock. Yes, it takes discipline.

      No, that's pretty much normal. If you think you are achieving that only through your superior self-discipline, you are probably going to be completely unprepared when met with a real challenge.

    17. Re:"politicians and employers"? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      So if I stay at work because I want to, you're going to force my employer to pay me exponentially more even if he didn't ask me to stay?

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    18. Re:"politicians and employers"? by BradleyUffner · · Score: 1

      So if I stay at work because I want to, you're going to force my employer to pay me exponentially more even if he didn't ask me to stay?

      Yes. You are doing work for them, they are getting a benefit from it. If they don't like it, they can implement a policy that limits maximum working hours.
      If studies show that it is harmful to your health, and the employer allows you to do that in the clock, they are liable for injuries sustained at the workplace. They have an incentive to keep you from hurting yourself while on the job.

  9. Automation by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Like we need ANOTHER reason for corporations to automate.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  10. Bad math Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by ET3D · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Extending life by 4% is equivalent to 1 hour a day. Sleeping 10% more, assuming you sleep 6 hours, is 6.6 hours, so you gain 0.4 hour. If you extend an 8 hour sleep by 10%, it's 8.8 hours, so you gain 0.2 hour. So either case is a win. I'm guessing you posted the above without getting enough sleep. :)

    1. Re:Bad math Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Days aren't 25 hours long. Try that math again.

    2. Re: Bad math Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you have delayed sleep phase disorder that turns into non-24 disorder due to repeated (now known to be dangerous in DSPS) attempts at chronotherapy.

    3. Re:Bad math Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Along with other math errors (4% of 24 is 57.6 minutes) you forgot to account for the fact that some of that 4% will *also* be asleep - you don't gain 4% waking hours.

    4. Re:Bad math Re:SLEEPING = LIVING ????? by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      24 != 25...got it.
      Parent = pedantic jackass...ditto

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
  11. Not scientific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    All scientific studies of increased or decreased human lifespan due to a specific factor are BS. There are way too many confounding variables over a human lifetime to make any claim credible.

    1. Re:Not scientific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for your ignorant opinion that "knowledge is impossible because IT HARD".

      We have statistical methods for analyzing data, and those methods can reveal important information. This has been common practice for well over a century.

      If you have any questions or concerns about statistical methods, please consult one of the thousands of statisticians in the US. Or take a few university courses.

    2. Re: Not scientific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thereâ(TM)s a difference between HARD and IMPOSSIBLE. Why do you think these studies keep contradicting each other over and over again?

    3. Re: Not scientific by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Please cite the studies that show hanging or cyanide don't reduce lifespan.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  12. Politicians and Employers... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have no love for either politicians or bosses, but is this really their problem? I suppose if you have a job where you have to work for 16 hours a day, your employer is definitely taking away your sleep time. I don't think that describes too many people.

    I think most of our sleep is being lost from OUR choices. We stay up late binging on netflix, or playing games, or otherwise entertaining ourselves. We pack our day with work, kids stuff, entertainment, commute, etc. We kind of bring on a very busy, very hectic schedule and sleep is just sort of sandwiched in there.

    One can argue that a 40 hour work-week is no longer really that important, but I have no reason to believe that even if we went to a 20 hour workweek we would sleep even 5 minutes more. We'd just find more stuff to pack in there. In contrast I probably could say "I'm too sleepy, I'm going to show up for work in a few hours" and my boss wouldn't give a crap as long as I got my work done. It'd come off as all kinds of horrible, but I have some karma to burn. The problem is that it wouldn't fix anything. I'd sleep in, go to work, do my job, then come home and do the same bad thing that cost me sleep previously, only later, to later hours...

    The article mentions I think only one point where work schedules are directly responsible: night shift workers with disrupted circadian rhythms. There is evidence that we are more ready to sleep at certain times of the day. That might push some groups to later hours than others. But that's not likely to solve the real problem.

    1. Re:Politicians and Employers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at productivity gains vs wage growth and tell me again the bosses aren't to blame? If wages grew like productivity, there's no reason for the 8/9/10 hour work day, followed by 1/2 hours of commute.

    2. Re:Politicians and Employers... by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      Depends on the job. If the job is complete list before going home, then yeah, they could reduce the hours

      Customer service jobs (retail/phone/etc) that deal with live customers can't just reduce work days. No matter how much you automate from a job, the customers still come on their timetable.

      At the end of the day. most if the increased productivity is due to money a company puts into it's systems or processes to make the current job easier/faster which allows new tasks to be added to the employee.

    3. Re:Politicians and Employers... by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      I spent a couple years working nights and it was awesome! I would switch between two different schedules periodically so I either started at 5pm or 10pm. Regardless of which shift I was doing I'd get to bed around 7am and it was perfect. Going to sleep as the sun is rising has to be one of the more satisfying simple pleasures in life.

      The only thing I didn't like was roommates hosting friends in the early afternoon ruining my sleep. If I could get away with going back to working nights without my wife scalping me I'd definitely do it.

    4. Re:Politicians and Employers... by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      You have to factor in commute time, eating, and running errands. And then something as common (in US) as an 11 hour day would be easily taking away sleep from people.

  13. Blockbuster: America is ISIS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blockbuster: Russian Satellite Proof, America is ISIS!

    ISIS positions north of Deir Ezzor manned by US Special Forces. Photos prove America is ISIS

    [ Editor's Note 2: Gordon went to the Russian ministry of defense to get the best quality photos, as they are needed to drive home two messages. One is that we have photographic proof of US advisers, Special Ops, or whatever you want to call them seeming to be able to operate inside and/or near ISIS held areas.

    Or two, these ISIS held areas can sometimes be SDF people dressed up as ISIS, depending what central casting in Hollywood has called up for the extras to dress as for the day.

    But there is a third questions. The Russians have obviously had these photos for days and maybe even weeks now, so why have they been hiding them at this critical stage of the war with the SDF now coming deep into traditional Arab territory in what is clearly and army of conquest now, with the US fully onboard.

    With ISIS pushed out of so many areas, and so many of the killed, or "gone to Idlib", who do we see Damascus showing signs of a shortage of manpower. I watched a video of SAA troops opening an new flank on Saquir Island south of Deir Ezzor. They were using on rubber boat being pulled back with a rope to shuttle troop across a narrow water barrier.

    At a minimum then needed two, with the second boat shuttling over the ammunition that is typically needed to sustain and offensive, and especially reserve ammunition to handle counter attacks where running out can be a death sentence.

    The ammo boat would also usually be carrying heavy crew manned machine guns, yet I have not seen a single one in any of these crossing videos, nor have I seen any RPG men with their backpacks of triple shot loads with any of these platoons going into combat on the west side of the river.

    We thank the Russian command for these photos. Please send more, and send them sooner⦠Jim W. Dean ]

    Editor's note: As US and SDF forces "defeat" ISIS near Deir Ezzor, it is now revealed that US and ISIS forces attacking Syrian Army positions are in fact one in the same. As long suspected, the US is supplying equipment and arms to ISIS, is safeguarding their leaders and fighting a totally phony war while in fact running the ISIS organization. Were one to say ISIS is commanded by Donald Trump, one would not be making a misstatement of any kind. Gordon Duff

            The newly released images "clearly show that US special ops are stationed at the outposts previously set up by ISIS militants."

            "Despite that the US strongholds being located in the ISIS areas, no screening patrol has been organized at them," the Russian Ministry of Defense said.

    1. Re:Blockbuster: America is ISIS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NEWS FLASH:
      A Rusky is a rusky even if you fry it in butter!

  14. bring on the robots.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they can take my job so i can sleep more and live forever!

  15. Politicians? by rickb928 · · Score: 2

    "And yet the problem was not being taken seriously by politicians and employers"

    In America, perhaps you need to consider an employer's interest in this issue as finding the tradeoff between maximum profit and maximum employee productivity.

    Why are politicians involved? Some right being violated? Our politicians are mostly in the business of violating our rights already. No more work to be done there.

    Really, looking to government to solve the problem is usually THE PROBLEM.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  16. Politicize all the things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Funny how even a health article has to take a jab at the president.

    " (sleep deprivation, amazing as this may sound to Donald Trump types, constitutes anything less than seven hours)."

    Not really sure what the author was implying here but it comes off as pretty pathetic.

    1. Re:Politicize all the things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Einstein reportedly slept for 5 hours a night, so perhaps they're trying to equate Trump with Einstein. That was my take.

    2. Re: Politicize all the things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The dog whistle helps things get published. it signals âiâ(TM)m one of youâ(TM) to the ruling class

    3. Re:Politicize all the things by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      You haven't been paying attention. Trump claims to thrive on 4 hours sleep a night, and there is a small minority of people like that. It's not a jab, the author is just making a reference to the well-known behavior of a well-known person.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  17. Cycling by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    It's the number of complete 90 minute sleep cycles! Cruddy protein folds get repaired. Brain processes and problem-solves the day's events via dreaming. Boners get exercised. (No, it isn't having to pee in the morning, its happening to wake up, having to pee, during this period.)

    Obesity (apnea), type II diabetes (excess sugar needing to pee, and neuropathy pain) all cut into this until you are lucky to get one full cycle.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:Cycling by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Oh, and stress worrying!

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  18. Always the next guy's problem though, right? by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    Like someone else already commented here ... I don't get why any of this SHOULD be a problem for politicians or employers to address? Hopefully, as an adult, each one of us is capable of making our own decisions about how we live our daily lives.

    Even the biggest work-a-holic has to sleep sometime, and he or she can opt to go to bed a little earlier if the core problem lies with expectations they're up bright and early to report to the job. A person can only do so much in a day (or night). There's diminishing returns on trying to cut back on sleep to squeeze more functional hours out of the day.

    I went through an especially difficult stage myself, because I had a pre-teen daughter who just would NOT wake up on her own in the morning to catch her bus to school. We fought to get her into a different school than our home district, which had the side effect that she had to be up and out the door by 5:45AM or so to catch the bus that went out there. Meanwhile, I worked for a company with offices spread out over multiple time zones, and was expected to work later in the evening because west coast people needed assistance at 4 or 5PM their time, while I was on the east coast. Trying to accommodate both of those needs was really limiting my sleep.

    But even then? I just had to make a habit of getting ready for bed each night ASAP, instead of doing any of the other things I would have liked to do. I learned to put everything else off until the weekends. It sucked, but I got through it and then summer provided a break. Now, she's much better about waking up on her own when her alarm goes off so I don't have to deal with it.
     

  19. Please don't try to sleep "8 hours"... by jpellino · · Score: 2

    7.5 or 9 - you'll wake at the time your body is ready to. I have long suspected that 8.25 was the arithmetic mean of reported sleep spans and since the public hates decimal points, it was short-handed to 8, which is exactly when you should not be waking.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
    1. Re:Please don't try to sleep "8 hours"... by ledow · · Score: 2

      Better:

      Go to bed when you're tired, earlier if you have a big day ahead. It's not hard.

      Read up on "second sleep", previous generations knew about and thought it quite normal to wake up in the night, go and do some things, then go back to bed. Read storybooks and you'll see veiled references to it everywhere, people don't just go to bed and then wake up in the morning. Never heard of "midnight snacks"? Same phenomenon.

      Same for food. Hungry? Eat. Three square meals a day is a Victorian invention. It's a biological nonsense. And yet people have trained themselves to it.

      Listen to your body, not some random number thrown at you (how many pieces of fruit/veg a day? EVERY COUNTRY CHOOSES A DIFFERENT NUMBER. From 2 up to 8 in some cases.)

    2. Re:Please don't try to sleep "8 hours"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't own an alarm clock or keep phones or tablets in the bedroom. I lay down and sleep when I'm tired. I get out of bed when I first wake up. I usually wake at sunrise because I don't use black out curtains and my region doesn't get much cloudy weather.
      Avoid living in a place with long dark winters, seasonal affected disorder will really need with your sleeping pattern.

  20. Rule of thumb by justthinkit · · Score: 1

    Rule of thumb: one hour of sleep before midnight equals two hours of sleep after midnight. So yes early to bed early to rise.

    --
    I come here for the love
    1. Re:Rule of thumb by Bongo · · Score: 1

      Personally I feel there’s something to that. Although at 1 am I can get a lot of (for me) creative clarity, if I stay up, it takes such a toll on the next day, that it’s not worth it. But if I get into deep sleep by 11pm, I get way better rest overalll. In our household, bed time is 9.15 pm and we’re up anywhere from five to six thirty. Which also means we always have time for excercise and a full cooked breakfast. None of this carby sugary cereal crap.

    2. Re:Rule of thumb by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You just pulled that from a dark smelly place. It's just not true.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re:Rule of thumb by PPH · · Score: 1

      And one hour of sleep during staff meetings is worth three at night.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Rule of thumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm convinced. Thanks for providing the link.

  21. Sleep by ledow · · Score: 2

    "Electric lights, television and computer screens, longer commutes, the blurring of the line between work and personal time, and a host of other aspects of modern life have contributed to sleep deprivation"

    All of which, with the possible slight exception of commutes which may be out of their control, are about GROWN ADULTS who aren't able to take themselves to bed on time.

    Literally, people, I'm the most gadgety person in the whole of gadgetdom. And I switch them off, turn out the light, and go to sleep no problem at all, after using them for between 8-16 hours a day, every day, for my entire adult life.

    If you're not going to bed because you're up doing stuff, stop it and go to bed.

    1. Re:Sleep by EndlessNameless · · Score: 1

      It's important to point out lights, TV, and computers so that adults know what they should do in their private lives to be healthier. Some people mistakenly believed that these things do no affect their health. This is more likely true of younger generations, as they have grown up with these things (possibly with bad role models the entire time).

      But it's also important to know about commutes and the blurring line between personal/professional time. Neither of things are wholly controlled by the person, and government policies can play a significant role---for better or worse.

      Every bit of evidence is good to have, even if, in this case, it only reinforces your existing habits.

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
  22. You've convinced me by Dan+East · · Score: 2

    Time for a nap. Because my life depends on it.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
  23. Sleep Scientist by PPH · · Score: 1

    "Seriously. I just tell people Iâ(TM)m a dolphin trainer. Itâ(TM)s better for everyone."

    Space shuttle door gunner usually works for me.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  24. Average life expectancy still longer for women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even when child rearing is part of their chosen life path. Seriously how many hours are they deprived by uncomfortable sleep during pregnancy and not to mention feeding the tiny human in the first few months? And then sometimes they repeat the process ?

  25. alarm clocks are for losers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    this is why i just sleep until i don't feel like sleeping anymore. only a loser gets up to an alarm.

  26. Having kids later by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Electric lights, television and computer screens, longer commutes, the blurring of the line between work and personal time, and a host of other aspects of modern life have contributed to sleep deprivation."

    While I can't speak for others, I was able to handle erratic and short sleep schedules perfectly fine in my 20's .My ability deal with poor sleep and still be productive is tremendously more taxing that in my 20's. It seems more and more people don't have kids until their 30's, I doubt I am the only on who suffer from lack of quality sleep in their 30's because of young children.

  27. Sudden media attention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... sleep deprivation affected "every aspect of our biology" ...

    It's good to see social issues going back to basics: What the human body needs. What has brought this concern for health and lifestyle to the sudden attention of media? Not that it matters: These days everyone is too busy (and too cheap) to make any problem into an issue that politicians must regulate.